Arena Tournament, Round 36: Leaf vs. Ned the Knight

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 36: Leaf vs. Ned the Knight

Map:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/Kyeudo/GlassArena.jpg


XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

Maurkov - Leaf (http://www.thetangledweb.net/addon.php?addon=Profiler&page=view_char&cid=10000)
Lord Sarthax - Ned the Knight (http://www.dndonlinegames.com/view.php?id=66875)

All Combatants, please roll initiative.

[lord sarthax]

[roll0]
still thinking about purchases

[Maurkov]

Looks like thetangledweb reorganized. You can find Leaf here (http://www.thetangledweb.net/ttw/addon.php?addon=Profiler&page=view_char&cid=10000). His minimum Init is 4, so let me know when you've completed your purchases.

[lord sarthax]

I saw that your animal companion died in the last round, (i think). do you have a new one now?

[Maurkov]

It was reduced to -6, I think. Whether it died isn't really material, since they're replaced for free.

But yes, Leaf has a riding dog animal companion and a riding dog mount.

Purchased this morning: Potion of Shield of Faith.

[lord sarthax]

purchases: potion of mage armor, potion of cure light wounds x2, studded leather barding for the horse.

one question, is it possible to have a potion of true strike?

[Maurkov]

True strike has a range of personal, so it cannot be made a potion.

Ready?

[lord sarthax]

umm I also buy a tanglefoot bag. k ready.

[Maurkov]

Leaf Round 1

Leaf starts mounted on Bud, (the dog wearing studded leather). Max (in chain) is beside him in B13. Leaf has a potion in hand.

Leaf commands Max to Defend [roll0], rides to B4, drinks the potion, and draws a scroll. Max follows, interposing himself between Leaf and Ned (C5).

Done.

Spells0:Guidance, Guidance, Virtue 1:Charm Animal, Charm Animal
StatusLeaf Location B4, AC 22 t16 ff19, HP 10/10, Spells: Shield of Faith[10]
Holding a scroll of speak with animals
Bud Location B4, AC 19, HP 13/13
Max Location C5, AC 20, HP 13/13

[lord sarthax]

Ned Round 1

Starting in Z13 mounted on Warhorse (equipped with studded leather barding) with potion in one hand, tower shield in other.

Swift: Issue fighting challenge
Standard: drink potion
for refs
potion of mage armor
Free: auto success at guiding horse with no hands. Move to Z3 as I draw out my spear

Stats for refs
location: Z3
hp:14/14
AC: 24 FF: 22 Touch: 12
buffs: Fighting Challenge 1/7
mage armor

[Maurkov]

Leaf Round 2

Leaf recites the scroll and discards it. He yips and whinneys.

Animal speech:Leaf tells the dogs to ignore the horse; only attack the human. He tells the horse that it is very handsom, and that the dogs and wolves won't hurt it. ((I don't want the -5 to charm it, later.))

Done.

OOC: I'm noticing that my sheet doesn't list the Speak with Animals scroll under the item list. It is there under the purchase history, however. Just prebutting the 'where did that come from?' argument. The ref question below doesn't matter until next round.

@refsNow that Leaf can speak with to his animals, is it necessary to "handle" them, since he can just tell them what he wants them to do? Can he instruct them to avoid attacks of opportunity? Can he have them ready actions?

status
Leaf Location B4, AC 22 t16 ff19, HP 10/10, Spells: Shield of Faith[9], Speak with Animals[10]
Bud Location B4, AC 19, HP 13/13
Max Location C5, AC 20, HP 13/13 (Defend)

[Mavian]

High Ref Mav

@Maurkov

The spell in question:

Speak with Animals

You can comprehend and communicate with animals. You are able to ask questions of and receive answers from animals, although the spell doesn’t make them any more friendly or cooperative than normal. Furthermore, wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments. If an animal is friendly toward you, it may do some favor or service for you.


Note the part that where it says that it doesn't make them any more friendly or cooperative than normal. I take this to mean that you would still have to make Handle Animal checks to get them to do something.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo


High Ref Mav

@Maurkov

The spell in question:

Speak with Animals

You can comprehend and communicate with animals. You are able to ask questions of and receive answers from animals, although the spell doesn’t make them any more friendly or cooperative than normal. Furthermore, wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments. If an animal is friendly toward you, it may do some favor or service for you.


Note the part that where it says that it doesn't make them any more friendly or cooperative than normal. I take this to mean that you would still have to make Handle Animal checks to get them to do something.


@Maurkov

Seconded. You still have to make the Handle Animal checks, but you get to be more specific about what you want them to do.

[Maurkov]

Standard: drink potion
Now's probably as good of time as any to mention that the armor bonus granted by Mage Armor does not stack with the armor bonus granted by your chain shirt.


Move to Z3 as I draw out my spear
Is that your lance or a javelin?

[lord sarthax]

hmmm, well then that stinks, :( and yes it is my javelin.

[Maurkov]

'k. Still your turn.

[lord sarthax]

Ned Round 2

free: direct horse to double move to F3, drop javelin in Z3
Move action: draw Lance
Ready action
If anything comes to attack me, move the tower sheild to point towards the attacker to gain full cover against the attack.

stats
location: F3
hp:14/14
AC: 20 FF: 18 Touch: 12
buffs: Fighting Challenge 2/7
mage armor (though it doesnt do anything)

[Maurkov]

Leaf Round 3

Leaf attempts a [roll0] (sure, use my 20 for the match) and steps back from danger (A5) while ordering Max and Bud forward (C1 and C4, respectively. Need one more roll to change Max's command). Leaf begins casting a long spell.Burn a Charm Animal to cast SNAI

Status:Leaf Location A5, AC 22 t16 ff19, HP 10/10, Spells: Shield of Faith[8], Speak with Animals[9]
Bud Location C4, AC 19, HP 13/13 (no orders)
Max Location C1, AC 20, HP 13/13 (Guard)

[Maurkov]

Forgive the double post. [roll0]

Done.

Btw, it hasn't mattered yet, but can you be clear about all of the spaces your horse occupies? At the end of round 2, was it F3-G4?

[lord sarthax]

will post later tonight, hopefully. Close, F3-G3.

[Maurkov]

Horses are square in 3.5, 2x2, so F3-G3 isn't enough unless the horse and rider are squeezing.

[lord sarthax]

oh ok sorry i was thinking of something else.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Sarthax, you need to clarify which 4 squares you and your mount are in before the match can continue.

[Maurkov]

((Come on lord sarthax. Please don't time out in the finals.))

[lord sarthax]

sorry i have had a busy weekend. yes it is f3-g4

Will try and post my other actions later today, but have not promises, just about to start testing in school. also BTW, I will not be here starting thursday afternoon to sunday night. just wanted to let you know.

[Maurkov]

Good luck on your tests.

[lord sarthax]

Ned round 3

move to A4, If you attack me, using mounted combat (if you attack my horse) or mounted mobility (if you attack me)
Attack me
[roll0]
damage
[roll1]

attack
[roll2]
damage
[roll3]

stats
location: A4
hp:14/14
AC: 20 FF: 18 Touch: 12
buffs: Fighting Challenge 3/7
mage armor (though it doesnt do anything)

[Maurkov]

Can you clarify where you are when you're doing what (remember that you're 2x2)? I'm guessing that the second attack is the horse's?

[lord sarthax]

actually, is it possible for the horse to get to B3-A4. I want to move over there so that I can attack you. Im attacking with my lance, since it is reach I will attack you before horse stops moving and the horse attacks after it is finished moving. I believe this is legal but I just want to know if it is posible for my horse to go from my current position to B3-A4 area.

[Maurkov]

Yes, it's possible. You have to squeeze through D3-E4, and are fine to enter C2-D3. Do you attack with the lance from there? As you pass from there to B2-C3, you leave Max's(C1) threatened area. He will attack Ned.

[roll0] includes flank with with Bud(C4) [roll1] [roll2]

@Ref: Am I mistaken to include the flank? Bud threatens even if he's not going to take an action.

[lord sarthax]

well i doubt it madders any ways because i have a normal 20 AC and a 24 ac against AoO because of mounted mobility.

[Maurkov]

...and are fine to enter C2-D3. Do you attack with the lance from there? Yes? No? Maybe?

[lord sarthax]

as long as it is within reach and it is a legal move

[Maurkov]

I believe the lance misses, then, due to cover.

@Ref, does Ned need to make a handle animal check for his mount to attack?

If not, here's a concentration check to complete the spell. [roll0]

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper

Yes, the move was valid.
Yes, the AoO gets the flank bonus, even though the mount isn't going to attack or take AoO, per the mounted combat entry, it still threatens those squares.
Yes, the lance attack can be made from those squares.
Yes, you get the cover bonus.
Yes, you need to make a handle animal check, DC 10, to get your mount to attack.

[lord sarthax]

handle animal [roll0] I think if i get this, you are dead. of corse, have to get a natural 1 on the roll that really needs it.

[Maurkov]

Okay, so the first shot missed (cover) and the second shot didn't happen (failed HA).

Leaf round 4

@refs, I'd like you to look over this before I reveal it. Since Leaf can speak with animals, he's doing a lot of talking (free actions), telling and asking critters where to go and what to do. Leaf completes his spell, summoning a wolf in A2 (not an action).
Instead of attacking immediately, Leaf tells it to wait a moment (free action).
Leaf steps back to B6 and casts Charm Animal at Ned's horse (Will DC14) (No action; standard action). No AoO because of cover.
Then he tells Bud to take his spot in A5 and orders him to attack Ned [roll0] (if successful [roll1] [roll2] [roll3]) (free action; move action).
Leaf tells Max and the summoned wolf to go ahead and attack (free action).
Max steps to B2 and attacks. [roll4] [roll5] [roll6].
The wolf attacks. [roll7] [roll8] [roll9].
Leaf implores the horse to aid him by (If Ned is still mounted) squeezing into C4-D5 or by (if he's been unhorsed) heading south to M3-N4 [roll10] (free action).

statusLeaf Location B6 AC 22 HP10/10 Spells: Speak with Animals; Shield of Faith
Max Location B2 AC 20 HP 13/13
Bud Location A5 AC 19 HP 13/13
Summoned Wolf A2 AC 14 HP 17/17

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper
Okay, some clarification first. Back when Max took the AoO that missed, that didn't happen. You'd have to use Handle Animal to get him to attack to take the AoO, unless I'm mistaken. The attack missed anyway so no harm, no foul.

To help other refs, here's where everyone is at the beginning of Leaf's turn.

Max (leaf's animal companion) C1
Bud (leaf's mount) C4
Leaf A5
Ned, mounted A3/B4

Now...
@Leaf, refs

Okay, your turn step by step...


Finish SNAI -- okay

Tell SNA-wolf to wait, free action to speak -- okay

5' step from A5 to B6 (pillar in B5 isn't a hard corner), doesn't provoke because it's a 5' step -- okay

Charm animal -- okay, I'll let a high ref adjudicate the results of that

Handle animal is a move action, direct Bud to move from C4 to A5 and attack, going around or through you in B6 -- okay

Bud provokes an AoO from Ned for leaving C4 -- okay, waiting to resolve

Bud attacks if still alive -- okay

Tell SNA wolf to attack -- okay

Tell Max to move and attack -- again, unless I'm mistaken, you still need a handle animal even though he's a companion because
A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted below.
Handling an animal is a move action you don't have left.

Finally, the thing with Ned's mount. I don't see a clear RAW rule, so that's up to a high ref. If it higher than animal intellegence, it'd be more clear cut. As is, I'm leaning towards a handle animal check, but that's just my opinion.


I'll call for a high ref to finish resolving all this. While you're waiting, you can fill Ned in on what happens up to the SNAwolf attacking. He'll need to take or decline the AoO on Bud, resolve the attack/trip from Bud, and resolve the attack from SNAwolf.

[Maurkov]

ref chilepepper
Okay, some clarification first. Back when Max took the AoO that missed, that didn't happen. You'd have to use Handle Animal to get him to attack to take the AoO, unless I'm mistaken. The attack missed anyway so no harm, no foul.

Max was on orders to "guard" when Ned wandered past. I figured that would make him take the AoO.

@refs
Okay, your turn step by step...

Finish SNAI -- okay

Tell SNA-wolf to wait, free action to speak -- okay

5' step from A5 to B6 (pillar in B5 isn't a hard corner), doesn't provoke because it's a 5' step -- okay

Charm animal -- okay, I'll let a high ref adjudicate the results of that

Handle animal is a move action, direct Bud to move from C4 to A5 and attack, going around or through you in B6 -- okay

Bud provokes an AoO from Ned for leaving C4 -- okay, waiting to resolve

Ned doesn't threaten that square. Ned doesn't have a move action to make the HA check to make the horse attack, and it may be charmed.


Bud attacks if still alive -- okay

Tell SNA wolf to attack -- okay

Tell Max to move and attack -- again, unless I'm mistaken, you still need a handle animal even though he's a companion because
Handling an animal is a move action you don't have left.If Max isn't still attacking because of the previous 'guard' command, Leaf can make a HA check as a free action SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm). "Link (Ex)
A druid can handle her animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion. " [roll0]



Finally, the thing with Ned's mount. I don't see a clear RAW rule, so that's up to a high ref. If it higher than animal intellegence, it'd be more clear cut. As is, I'm leaning towards a handle animal check, but that's just my opinion.


I'll call for a high ref to finish resolving all this. While you're waiting, you can fill Ned in on what happens up to the SNAwolf attacking. He'll need to take or decline the AoO on Bud, resolve the attack/trip from Bud, and resolve the attack from SNAwolf.

'k.

lord sarthax,

Leaf completes his spell, summoning a wolf behind you in A2. Leaf backs up to B6 and casts a spell (no AoO because of cover). Your horse needs to make a Will save DC 14. The dog in C4 moves around to A5 and attacks Ned, missing. Ned doesn't threaten C4, and I don't think the horse is going to take the AoO, but in case I'm wrong, please roll it. The dog in C1 moves to B2 and attacks Ned, missing. The wolf in A2 attacks Ned, hitting AC 28 for 8 damage and forcing a trip check. Leaf whinnies at Ned's horse. I'm not sure if they'll be required, but please roll charisma checks for Ned and for the horse.

You can crack the Turn 4 spoiler if you want to see the rolls.

[lord sarthax]

do you think i need to wait for the other refs or should i post my actions and rolls now?

[Maurkov]

Please don't take your round 4 turn until we see what happened during Leaf's action, but please make your rolls:

Horse Will save
Horse AoO
Ned's Trip
Charisma checks for Ned and horse

[chilepepper]

So I see

Leaf commands Max to Defend Handle Animal - (1d20+8)[14], rides to B4, drinks the potion, and draws a scroll. Max follows, interposing himself between Leaf and Ned (C5).

So it was Defend, not guard, but okay, the AoO missed anyway so again, no harm no foul (only on my part this time).

And
leaf, refs
Yep, Max can attack. (I've never played a druid, so I'm rusty on those rules. The free action HA works.)

So, those checks mentioned can be made, but I'm still trying to get a high ref in here to resolve something, so you're still on hold.

high refThe whole charm horse thing

[Bayar]

Ref Bayar

Animals can take AOO's on their own, without needing handle animal checks, since they are intelligent enough. It was ruled before by Kyeudo.


GM Kyeudo



For simplicity's sake, I'll rule that as long as a mount or animal companion has not been ordered to not attack and the creature being attacked is not an Undead or Aberration they can make AoOs just like normal characters. Animals trained to attack Undead or Aberrations (See Handle Animal skill discription) and not ordered to not attack can make AoOs as normal against all creatures.



From my knowledge, you dont have to use handle animal on a summoned creature, since it listens to your commands. You control it. So, just saying "Attack him" is enough.

[Maurkov]

So it was Defend, not guard, but okay, the AoO missed anyway so again, no harm no foul (only on my part this time).
Oh, I changed it again in posts 18 and 19 (It says guard in the status block). Sorry, I could have made that clearer.

Seconded,
@high refThe whole charm horse thing

@bayar,
Should Bud (C5) have taken the AoO when Ned passed (around post 30)?

Before the charm (and if it fails, continuing), despite Leaf's assurance via speak with animals and without direction from Ned, does the horse consider the dogs to be enemies?

[lord sarthax]

Horse Will save 1s20+2
Horse AoO
Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]
Ned's Trip Just a d20? [roll2]
Charisma checks for Ned [roll3] and horse [roll4]

[lord sarthax]

[roll0] will reroll

[Maurkov]

Looks like the horse failed the save and is charmed, so it's unlikely to take the AoO on Leaf's ally. A trip check can use your STR, DEX, or (because you're mounted) Ride modifier, but none of those beats the wolf's 15.

@ref, where does Ned end up? In A3 or B3, adjacent to the wolf that unhorsed him?

With that answer, Leaf's round 4 is done.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

A charmed creature considers the caster to be a friend and so will not attack them or otherwise harm them knowingly. It still retains all previous loyalties, however, so this situation will likely result in a really confused horse.

As for where he ends up, yes, next to the wolf that unhorsed him. He can pick which square he falls in.

[Maurkov]

lord sarthax, you're up. Actually, you're prone, but it's your turn.

[lord sarthax]

ok so i end up in A3, Ill stand up provoking an AoO. will allow you to roll it first before continuing on.

[Maurkov]

Standing provokes AoO's from Max and the wolf.

(Including +4 for prone)
[roll0] [roll1]
[roll2] [roll3]

Is that the match?

[lord sarthax]

seems to be, hmm, if only i wasn't so hasty back there not to notice that the move that you suggested to me gave you cover. oh well.

[Maurkov]

Well... yeah. Don't ever trust your opponent; He could be trying to kill you. You do need to be specific what you're doing where, but if you'd moved to A2-B3 before attacking with the lance, it would have hit, Leaf would have been staggered, and the 20 concentration check would have missed by 1. There'd be no wolf, so Ned would be unscathed. Leaf might have come back with a scroll of CLW and another wolf, but probably not.

Thank you for the match. Good game.

[Bayar]

I just now saw this: You cant have more than one animal in the arena. You have 2. Your companion and a riding dog.


You may not bring any attack animals, mercenaries, undead, bound outsiders, or other allies with you into the Arena.
You may only bring a single riding animal with you into the arena. Riding animals must be trained either for riding or combat riding, as per the Handle Animal skill discription.

[lord sarthax]

heh lol. Well that has slipped for a couple rounds. :P

Edit: actualy it seems that he was using the other dog as his mount and his animal companion was just there. duno if that is legal or not.

[Maurkov]

Yes, one is coming through the animal companion exception and the other through the mount exception:


You may bring your Familiar, Animal Companion, or other companion granted by a class feature into the arena with you.
You may not bring any attack animals, mercenaries, undead, bound outsiders, or other allies with you into the Arena.
You may only bring a single riding animal with you into the arena. Riding animals must be trained either for riding or combat riding, as per the Handle Animal skill discription.

Is the problem that the animal companion could also serve as a mount?

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Maurkov's build is legal. The animal companion is a class feature, the other dog is a mount. Everything works out.

[Bayar]

GM Kyeudo

Maurkov's build is legal. The animal companion is a class feature, the other dog is a mount. Everything works out.

Well then, I will get another riding dog on my druid, kill it and animate the **** out of it.

[Mavian]

High Ref Mav:

The winner, via Knockout in the fifth round... LLLLLEEEEAAAAAF

[lord sarthax]

can i level him up now?

[Maurkov]

Sure, and post in the recruitment thread that he's ready for the next level 2 round.