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Lochar
2008-04-22, 05:02 PM
Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field.

What happens if the incorporal undead is the caster?

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-22, 05:07 PM
What happens if the incorporal undead is the caster?

It winks out, according to the bit you quoted. Seems simple enough. Once the duration elapses and the AMF is gone, the caster comes back into being.

Collin152
2008-04-22, 05:08 PM
Woudn't the field "wink out" with them?
It is centered on the caster, after all.

SilverClawShift
2008-04-22, 05:15 PM
Paradox Ahoy.

The universe is destroyed, and all remaining characters are immediately shunted into the nearest intact realm (Eberron, Ravenloft, whatever).

Nebo_
2008-04-22, 10:33 PM
Woudn't the field "wink out" with them?
It is centered on the caster, after all.

This effectively turns the caster into strobe.

Collin152
2008-04-22, 10:38 PM
This effectively turns the caster into strobe.

How fast is instantaneous?
I don't think the human eye is capable of noticing something flickering so fast.
Essentially, I think you'd either be free to act thanks to you technically existign there and not existing there at once, or you'd still be there but yu'd be incapable of movement.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-04-22, 10:41 PM
If that was the case (blinking in and out continuously) I'd just give it a 50% failure chance on everything including movement.

GoC
2008-04-22, 10:45 PM
This effectively turns the caster into strobe.

That's going to give people a headache. Especially the DM.

Squash Monster
2008-04-22, 11:06 PM
Can't it still be centered on the caster even if the caster is winked out?

Aquillion
2008-04-22, 11:07 PM
What happens if the incorporal undead is the caster?"Wink out" doesn't mean what you're implying here. They simply lose their ability to manifest on the material plane, since Manifestation is an Su ability. They still exist, they're just stuck as ethereal. If they cast an AMF, the field remains focused on them -- but, at that point, since spell effects don't extend from the ethereal plane to the material plane, the AMF stops affecting the material plane at all (since the ghost is ethereal, though, they remain 'winked-out' until it expires.)

Remember, AMF doesn't hurt magic creatures; ethereal things remain ethereal. The only way it affects ghosts is by taking away the Su ability they use to manifest physically, making them appear to 'wink out'.

Mewtarthio
2008-04-22, 11:11 PM
But what about Spectres, Shadows, Wraiths, and all the other incorporeal undead?

Nebo_
2008-04-22, 11:15 PM
"Wink out" doesn't mean what you're implying here. They simply lose their ability to manifest on the material plane, since Manifestation is an Su ability. They still exist, they're just stuck as ethereal. If they cast an AMF, the field remains focused on them -- but, at that point, since spell effects don't extend from the ethereal plane to the material plane, the AMF stops affecting the material plane at all (since the ghost is ethereal, though, they remain 'winked-out' until it expires.)

Remember, AMF doesn't hurt magic creatures; ethereal things remain ethereal. The only way it affects ghosts is by taking away the Su ability they use to manifest physically, making them appear to 'wink out'.

That's RAI. How could something exist in the ethereal plane when there's no magic? Unless you're trying to say that being ethereal doesn't require magic, which doesn't make any sense at all.

The spell doesn't stop effecting the material plane, either. Abjurations are present on both planes.

Chronos
2008-04-22, 11:22 PM
Being ethereal doesn't require magic. A material creature needs magic to become ethereal, and the most common means of going ethereal keep the creature on the ethereal plane magically, but if, say, someone were to Plane Shift (an instantaneous effect) to the ethereal plane, they'd stay there even with a Dispel Magic or Antimagic Field.

And abjurations extend from the material to the ethereal, but not vice-versa. Nothing extends from the ethereal to the material. It'd be very broken if you could just stay safely ethereal and Maw of Chaos everything you saw.

Collin152
2008-04-22, 11:23 PM
"Wink out" doesn't mean what you're implying here. They simply lose their ability to manifest on the material plane, since Manifestation is an Su ability. They still exist, they're just stuck as ethereal. If they cast an AMF, the field remains focused on them -- but, at that point, since spell effects don't extend from the ethereal plane to the material plane, the AMF stops affecting the material plane at all (since the ghost is ethereal, though, they remain 'winked-out' until it expires.)

Remember, AMF doesn't hurt magic creatures; ethereal things remain ethereal. The only way it affects ghosts is by taking away the Su ability they use to manifest physically, making them appear to 'wink out'.

THat only applies ot ghosts, dear.
Most incorporeal thigns have nothing to do with the etheral plane.

Fixer
2008-04-23, 09:17 AM
Rules from the d20 SRD on Anti-Magic Field
An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field, though Mage's Disjunction might.

Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.
The fact that it doesn't explain WHY incorpreal creatures 'wink out' at all seems to be the problem. It explains in detail about the summoned creatures but not the incorporeal.

This will be a rule 0 situation.

In my game, if an incorporeal caster casts an anti-magic field, whatever effect that causes them to be incorporeal will be temporarily suppressed. If being incorporeal is one of their creature subtypes NOT caused by an ongoing magical effect, they will temporarily cease to exist ('wink out') for the duration of the spell.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-04-23, 09:28 AM
The fact that it doesn't explain WHY incorpreal creatures 'wink out' at all seems to be the problem. It explains in detail about the summoned creatures but not the incorporeal.

This will be a rule 0 situation.

I think it would be reasonable to group the incorporeales with the summoned and treat them the same if they are already present within the area effected by the AMF. It seems like they were forgotten in the middle of that paragraph.

SoD
2008-04-23, 10:08 AM
Ghost: ''Ah! Need to escape quickly! Uh, what can I do...I know! Antimagic Feild! Now, while the DM spends the next 10 rounds working out what happens, I blast them all to bits!''

raekuul
2008-04-23, 10:23 AM
Here's my interpretation.

The caster is incorporeal in nature (i.e. not a spell effect): Field stays on plane that it was cast in, caster is non-existant (treat as Imprisoned) for duration.

The caster is simultaneously on two planes, by spell or spell-like effect: Field and Caster are on present plane. Caster loses incorporeality for duration.

My special homerule is that animated undead (Skeletons, Zombies, etc) and certain animated constructs (Iron golems, but not flesh golems), as well as characters that have been raised/resurrected within the past week have to make a will save (DC 12) or be unable to act for the duration of the spell if they are inside the field. If they make their save, they are unaffected and operate normally (albeit without other magic). This save has to be made once per field, so overlapping fields improve the odds of a falling apart.