Help please

[Merlock]

Um...hello. I am a newly-registered user whom none of you know, so I'll just go ahead now and make you all hate me by begging you for aid, and probably in the wrong forum to boot. :eek:

Basically, I'm in a college Magazine Writing class and am working on an article about the popularity, and specifically profitability, of the webcomic industry. (Note that this article won't actually be in any magazine.) I need people to quote in said article, including readers/customers, and rather than simply make something up, I figured I would at least try to do the assignment right and ask people for help rather and count this forum as an "e-mail interview." :confused: So, basically, if anyone could just post below anything they can think of that could be relevant---why you choose to donate to webcomics/buy merchandise, why you like certain webcomics, what you think makes a "good webcomic," whatever.

Also...if Rich Burlew happens to be reading this...since you're basically the most successful webcartoonist in the world, as far as I can tell, could I send you a set of questions for you to answer? I have tried the site's "Contact Rich Burlew" thing (twice, I think), and completely understand how busy you must be, but yeah, just thought maybe I'd try this way too. :biggrin:

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. N00b signing off now.

(And yes, I know I use too many smileys.)

[Duaneyo1]

While, the book versions of the comic have some new material, I really by them because I am a fan of Rich's work. His comic has provided me with some laughs over the last few years, so I have a small interest in it continuing.

[Jayngfet]

if it helps...


Rich burlew had another webcomic, can't remember it's name at the moment, it was another Dungeons and Dragons comic, about a group of inept players who ruin the carefully laid out world of their distraught dungeon master, it was kinda funny but nothing much to distinguish itself from the other dime-a-dozen comics in the same mold, it only made it up to five comics, no one's really sure why...


...then order of the stick comes along with it's then distinctive style (which has been copied dozens of times by other comics), and the jokes ...well, Rich knows his audience and what "they" get, so we get jokes about age categories and skill points, but he also attracts other readers with jokes on personalities, so we get things like orcs in leprechaun suits and psychotic midgets, theres also the bonus on the plot.

So to answer the question of why order of the stick, it has the hallmarks of a good comic, distinctive features ( the art), intimate knowledge of the audience(jokes on the d20 system), and a good plot.

[David Demola]

Quote me on this:

Rich is the picture of sexy.

[Helanna]

Let's see here . . .

Most of my favorite webcomics are fantasy and/or DnD based, not sure if that changes anything.

What I look for first is good humor. If I've gone ten comics in and still haven't laughed, why should I keep reading? That's why I read comics - to laugh.

Second, I look at the art style - if it's not clear-cut or if it's badly drawn, I probably won't keep reading because it annoys me if the drawing is messy.

Thirdly, it helps if it has a plot - comics seem to be more humorous when they have something to move the characters forward. I'm not sure if its the plot itself, or if the funny artists are also good at actually writing.

Oh, and all of my favorite webcomics have insane sociopathic mass murderers in them, not sure if that has to do with anything.:smallwink:

You may quote me on whatever you wish :smallbiggrin: I hope I made sense, I'm kind of rushed right now.

[Morgan Wick]

Also...if Rich Burlew happens to be reading this...since you're basically the most successful webcartoonist in the world, as far as I can tell,

Um... I have a feeling you aren't actually very much of a webcomics geek and merely represent the Old Media Playing Catch Up (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OldMediaPlayingCatchUp) (note that I don't mean to insult or flame you by saying that), since it seems you haven't heard of Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com), nor of PVP (http://www.pvponline.com), nor of several other webcomics that, as strange as it may be to believe, are more "successful" than OOTS. I've actually seen PA books in the "humor" section of a legit bookstore alongside Garfield and Dilbert. Good luck finding OOTS books anywhere other than online and in stores populated exclusively by fetish-fueled, cosplaying geeknerds. Oh, and did I mention that I have a feeling Gabe and Tycho just might be a little more receptive to your requests for an interview than the somewhat reclusive Giant?

[DreadSpoon]

If you actually want to get Rich and others reading this, you might want to apply a small bit of common sense to how you make your topics. "Help please" is the single lamest, most useless, and least attractive topic you could possibly come up with. A topic like "webcomics industry research" or "comic popularity study" or so on would make this topic far more useful and far more likely to be noticed by people who matter.

[Merlock]

Um... I have a feeling you aren't actually very much of a webcomics geek and merely represent the Old Media Playing Catch Up (note that I don't mean to insult or flame you by saying that), since it seems you haven't heard of Penny Arcade, nor of PVP, nor of several other webcomics that, as strange as it may be to believe, are more "successful" than OOTS.

Well, that was half to suck up in case the Giant does read this. :smallwink: But you're actually kind of right, I'm fairly "new" to webcomics, at least compared to some people. I read a ton of them, but most of the "really big ones" I haven't. (Actually now that I think about it, I'm the same way with books and TV...) But I am now (in my desperate hope to find more information by Sunday when this horrible article is due) branching out to any comic I can get my mouse on, so I will see if I can get those guys' aid.

Thanks to everyone who's offered help! Also, and I know this will not a popular request, if anybody would like to give their real name, it would be great. Though actually, just giving peoples' Internet names might be a good way to emphasize the subcultural nature of the Internet phenomenon...or something smart-sounding like that...

[FujinAkari]

Ok... well let me offer you some general assistance :).

Webcomics all compete on the same basic ruleset. Each webcomic seeks to expand its audience to the point where it is able to sustain itself on the revenue generated by accepting donations or selling ads or selling merchandise. Thus, to overly simplify thing, each webcomic is competing with the internet surfing populous in order to secure our free time.

Of course, no tactic can serve as a substitute for brilliant writing, good character development, or facinating plotlines (although Dominic Deegan (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/) seems to assert that doing things poorly can actually be twisted into an accomplishment) there are a variety of "hooks" that webcomics use in order to entice readers in, with mixed results.

Any discussion of webcomics must begin with the founders, who have already been named in this thread. PvP (http://www.pvponline.com/) by Scott Kurtz and Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic) by Jerry Holkins and Mike Krahulik were both started ten years ago, and serve as a good cross-section of the webcomic industry.

Like Sitcoms, webcomics can be divided into two basic types, the more common story-driven piece wherein the reader is engaged by the ongoing plot and continues reading/watching to learn what happens (the Friends model, of which OOTS and PvP subscribe) and the social commentary piece, wherein each episode (comic) exists largely independant upon the one before. These comics find success by offering a warped review of the real world and, also, becoming a somewhat off-beat source of news, similar I suppose to the sitcom example of Seinfeld, although I would almost call Penny Arcade closer to The Colbert Report. :)

But yes, rambling aside, webcomics are basically divided into story-driven works which have the advantage of being much more likely to hold the reader (by making him care about the character) but also being much harder to write (you have to keep the story fresh, and the characters interesting.) Alternatively, some comics maintain an independant style where comics will not relate to one another, but instead merely satirize the real world. The advantage of these is that you don't have to write a plotline and are thus freer in what you publish, but it is harder to develop a loyal following, since there is no sense of urgency to read through your archives.

For note, the only three comics which I can think of which have successfully employed the "Seinfeld-style" are Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/), GU Comics (http://www.gucomics.com/), and XKCD (http://www.xkcd.com/)

Now, that aside... what makes a good webcomic, other than being a founder? There are now literally hundreds of webcomics about, how in the world are you going to attract a following? Well, assuming you are a talented and creative writer, you need to figure out something to attact the reader and make them read enough comics to get hooked. Story and Character driven comics are great, but require the reader to experience enough of the story to care, and getting them to sit around for that much of the story is the tricky part.

Some comics, such as Goblins (http://www.goblinscomic.com/) and Succubus Justice (http://www.succubus-justice.com/) do this by taking 'evil' races and putting them in the spotlight (sometimes revealing them to not be quite so evil... sometimes not!)

Other comics, such as 8 Bit Theatre (http://www.nuklearpower.com/) and Looking For Group (http://www.lfgcomic.com/) do this primarily with one facinating character, who immediately grabs your attention and holds it long enough for you to get interested in the comic.

Still others, such as Kidd Radd (http://home.att.net/~miller.daniel.r/) take a webcomic staple (in this case the sprite comic) and tweak it, adding animation to get the reader involved untilt he story grabs them.

And of course, there are the age old staples, such as pornographic comics (url not appropriate) which work for the same reasons they always have :).

A good gauge of how successful a comic is can be seen in how committed to their initial gimmick they remain. To use OOTS as an example, Rich initially intended the comic to drive repeat traffic to his website, which was initially designed to be a place to discuss gaming and game design. OOTS took off, however, and its abrupt popularity is largely the reason that the strip no longer focuses on rules jokes and game mechanics, but on the ongoing story within the campaign world.

When OOTS was begun, it was assumed that it would be read by whomever came to this site - gamers. It has now outgrown the site, and its audience has expanded to pretty much anyone online :)

Hope that helps!

*pants*

Also, my name is Myst Johnson, I'm 24, and I majored in Psychology, if that'll help your article :)

[Arkenputtyknife]

Any discussion of webcomics must begin with the founders, who have already been named in this thread. PvP (http://www.pvponline.com/) by Scott Kurtz and Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic) by Jerry Holkins and Mike Krahulik were both started ten years ago, and serve as a good cross-section of the webcomic industry.
If you're going to talk about founders, talk about founders. PvP and Penny Arcade have been around a long time, but they are not founders. Sluggy Freelance (http://www.sluggy.com/) started the year before either of them and is still going, and I have no idea whether that was the first. Somehow, I doubt it. There are probably older, obscure web comics lurking out there somewhere, or may once have been.

Merlock — you're welcome to refer to me by my GitP name if for some bizarre reason you need to, but my real name must remain private.

[FujinAkari]

If you're going to talk about founders, talk about founders. PvP and Penny Arcade have been around a long time, but they are not founders. Sluggy Freelance (http://www.sluggy.com/) started the year before either of them and is still going, and I have no idea whether that was the first. Somehow, I doubt it. There are probably older, obscure web comics lurking out there somewhere, or may once have been.

"If you are going to talk about founders, talk about founders! No, I don't know who the founders are."

Yeesh, I've never even heard of Sluggy Freelance, I talk about the comics I know. Lay off :P