Warblades and Prestige Class Qualification

[Ascension]

A lot of prestige classes require some rather suboptimal feat choices. A notable example is the Eye of Grummsh, who must not only gain proficiency with the exotic orc double axe, but must also have Weapon Focus (orc double axe). All this in exchange for some great flavor and some alright, but not great, special abilities. If an Eye with a level of Warblade were to use Weapon Aptitude to change that proficiency and focus to something a bit more useful... say, the spiked chain... would you lose your Eye of Grummsh abilities? Flavor-wise, all you have to do to enter the become an Eye is prove your worth with the double axe, you're not required to wield one once you are one. The flavor works, but I'm not sure about the mechanics.

[BadJuJu]

Yeah, but you are still required to have the feat for qualification in the PrC.

[Ascension]

No, my question is: Do you lose the prestige class if you change the feat after qualifying for the prestige class?

[Starbuck_II]

No, my question is: Do you lose the prestige class if you change the feat after qualifying for the prestige class?
Page 16 C. Warrior, read that near top.
All C.War Prestige class have the Ex-Class notation: it says if you ever lose the qualifications: you lose the benefitds beyond BAb, Saves, hps (keep those).

So losing the Prereqs do affect you if using C. War Prestige classes.

[Tsotha-lanti]

It goes into interpretation. Do you need to meet the prerequisites to take levels in the PrC, or to use the PrC's abilities? I'd say the first, or else it just gets way too complicated. "Huh, my Dex got drained to 9 and I can't use my Dodge and Mobility, well, I guess that means I lose all the abilities from this prestige class..." (Not that I could be bothered to even enforce losing the use of feats due to ability damage or drain.)

So yeah, I'd probably let a Warblade sub the ability for the Weapon Focus feat as a PrC prereq. Doesn't sound like that big of a deal.

[Ascension]

All C.War Prestige class have the Ex-Class notation: it says if you ever lose the qualifications: you lose the benefitds beyond BAb, Saves, hps (keep those).

So losing the Prereqs do affect you if using C. War Prestige classes.

Not so, unless the Ex-class notation is separate from the rest of the Prestige Class entry. I've got it right here in front of me and I see no such thing.

And even if you couldn't use it with CWar prestige classes, what about others? Blade Bravo requires Weapon Focus (Rapier), but IIRC none of its class abilities require the use of the rapier. What if you wanted to use another weapon, and changed your focus accordingly?

[Starbuck_II]

Not so, unless the Ex-class notation is separate from the rest of the Prestige Class entry. I've got it right here in front of me and I see no such thing.

And even if you couldn't use it with CWar prestige classes, what about others? Blade Bravo requires Weapon Focus (Rapier), but IIRC none of its class abilities require the use of the rapier. What if you wanted to use another weapon, and changed your focus accordingly?

Yep, the Ex-Class Entry is on page 16.
Titled:
Meeting Class Requirements. I know, stupid place to put the Ex-class for the classes, but this is C.W. makers of the Swashbuckler and Hexblade (nerfed them both so not worth a full class; only dips).

[Chronos]

There is much dispute on this score. Complete Warrior and (I think) Complete Arcane contain rules saying that if you lose the prereqs, you lose the class benefits, but that rule appears nowhere else, and it does not say it overrides or clarifies any other rules. To make things more complicated, some PrCs actually cause you to lose their own prerequisites: Ur-Priest, for instance, has a prerequisite of not being able to cast divine spells, and then goes and gives you divine spellcasting starting with the very first level.

The only things everyone agrees on are:
You need to meet the prerequisites before taking the first level in a class.
For the PrCs in Comp. War. and Comp. Arc., you need to keep the prereqs.
Losing the prereqs of a class as a consequence of the class itself doesn't count.

Everything else, it depends on the DM's interpretation. Some say that the rule in Comp. War. applies to all PrCs. Some will take away some abilities but not all, depending on which prereq was lost. Some will go so far as to only require the prereqs for the first level, and let you keep taking levels in the class so long as you qualified at 1st.

[Starbuck_II]

There is much dispute on this score. Complete Warrior and (I think) Complete Arcane contain rules saying that if you lose the prereqs, you lose the class benefits, but that rule appears nowhere else, and it does not say it overrides or clarifies any other rules. To make things more complicated, some PrCs actually cause you to lose their own prerequisites: Ur-Priest, for instance, has a prerequisite of not being able to cast divine spells, and then goes and gives you divine spellcasting starting with the very first level.

The only things everyone agrees on are:
You need to meet the prerequisites before taking the first level in a class.
For the PrCs in Comp. War. and Comp. Arc., you need to keep the prereqs.
Losing the prereqs of a class as a consequence of the class itself doesn't count.

Everything else, it depends on the DM's interpretation. Some say that the rule in Comp. War. applies to all PrCs. Some will take away some abilities but not all, depending on which prereq was lost. Some will go so far as to only require the prereqs for the first level, and let you keep taking levels in the class so long as you qualified at 1st.

You forgot Option c. The Completes have their own special rules for Prc.
You must follow Complete Arcanes for their one and Complete Warrior for theirs.
Outsise of those two: those rules do not matter.

Like in Relativity: outside of going close to speed of Light: you don't need to compute gamma.
This allows DMG's prcs work and function. Also Complete Divine's.

It seems like the logical choice to me.

[Jasdoif]

In general, my view is that you need to meet the prestige class' prereqs in order to continue to receive the prestige class' benefits. Because of the incompatibilities above (brought on by requirements that you not have a particular thing), I make a special case that a prestige class cannot disqualify itself. To put it more simply, if losing the benefits of the prestige class would cause you to qualify for it once more, then you don't lose the benefits of the prestige class. It's certainly an easy solution to how losing the benefits makes you qualify and qualifying makes you lose the benefits.


In this particular case, however, I think it'd be reasonable to allow prestige class progress to continue. Weapon Aptitude or not, the warblade is still spending feats on Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus, and unless I'm remembering wrong the abilities aren't especially powerful.

[Cuddly]

Just get your DM (unless you're the DM) to waive the stupid entry requirements.

[Ascension]

Since Eye of Grummsh actually allows you to be neutral (chaotic neutral, but still neutral), I'm trying to build a liberal, non-evil Eye who's trying to use his prestigious position to spread the word of a kinder, more understanding Gruumsh. I'm having fun with the concept, but I'd really rather not have to use the orc double axe. I was trying to see if I could get out of it somehow. Oh well.

I still might use this trick to get around the Blade Bravo's rapier focus sometime, though. After all, the sample blade bravo in the pic in the book appears to be wielding a short sword... :smalltongue: