Where to go with this ranger?

[bigbaddragon]

Hi all,
A week ago I began a campaign with new DM and due to somewhat strange stat rolling method (4d6, drop the lowest; you have to announce in advance which stat are you rolling for; you can roll second time with -1 penalty and 3rd time with -2 penalty; you must keep the last thing you rolled; the above applies to all stats) and because DM really wanted a ranger in the party I ended up with this:
Human Ranger 1:
Str 11, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10.

Since I never played ranged oriented characters so far I need a bit of help from you. So far I've come up with idea to multiclass with Scout (probably Ranger2/Scout X) and grab Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel. I've already taken Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot and Undead as favored enemy.

So, is there anything else I could do for this character mechanical wise? Any chance to go melee if needed with strength so low? Any finesseable 2H weapons other than spiked chain?

Books allowed would be core + completes series most likely and I think campaign will go to level 10 tops.

Thanks in advance

[sonofzeal]

There's not a lot of ranged options out there, good or otherwise, but Swift Hunter -> OotBI is not a bad move. If you plan on getting your Skirmish reliably, and don't have a source of free Move Actions, then OotBI boosts your damage through the roof at little cost.

[Nebo_]

I disagree. I can't recommend OotBI under any circumstances; instead, just keep taking ranger levels and take greater manyshot at some point. End up with Scout 4/Ranger 16.

[AlterForm]

I disagree. I can't recommend OotBI under any circumstances; instead, just keep taking ranger levels and take greater manyshot at some point. End up with Scout 4/Ranger 16.

This. The only thing he didn't mention is your Favored Enemy choices. You already seem to know that Swift Hunter allows you to apply skirmish to FEs even if usually immune, but just so you don't have to go searching, the 5 you want to take are:

Undead
Construct
Elemental
Ooze
Plant

[Collin152]

Nebo_

The _ is silent.

[AlterForm]

The _ is silent.

Yeah. I'd hope you weren't pronouncing the name something silly like "NeboUnderscore" :smalltongue: Teach me to copy paste. Meh

[cupkeyk]

I recommend a two level dip (after level 16) into stalker of kharash (BoED)so you can get +1 against evil. bonuses against favored enemy stack and since most undead are already evil, you can add those bonuses up. lastly, if you can still change races, an elf can select undead as a favored enemy and progress them by multiples of three instead of two using the elven ranger substitution levels (RotW). Dropping plant or won't totally gimp you anyway sct4/rgr14/stalker of kharash 2. You may want to drop spellcasting using the champion of nature substitution levels (CChampion) to access awesome feats like Woodland Archer(RotW).

[Reel On, Love]

Take a level of Cleric. No, really.
Take the Travel domain (along with something that gives a nice domain power, like Time--Imp. Initiative--or something) and sacrifice it for the Travel Devotion feat in the Complete Champion. Take Extra Turning as a feat. Even with 8 CHA, that's 3-1+4 = 6 turn undead uses. Sacrifice them all for 3 extra uses of Travel Devotion.

4 times/day, you can activate Travel Devotion to move as a swift action for a minute. Move, rapid shot. Move, rapid shot. Move, rapid shot. Take Improved Skirmish and go nuts.

Greater Manyshot might be a good backup, but Travel Devotion improves Swift Hunters so much.

And, oh yeah--get wands of Guided Shot and Hunter's Eye. Put then in Wand Chambers (Dungeonscape mundane items).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Pick up a Belt of Battle at some point. It'll give you 3 free move actions per day, and that is the least cheesy use of it, so you can get skirmish on a Full Attack. Pick up Improved Skirmish at some point to boost # of d6s even more, and proceed to be the best archer possible short of being a Warlock.

[Reel On, Love]

Pick up a Belt of Battle at some point. It'll give you 3 free move actions per day, and that is the least cheesy use of it, so you can get skirmish on a Full Attack. Pick up Improved Skirmish at some point to boost # of d6s even more, and proceed to be the best archer possible short of being a Warlock.

Swift Hunters are vastly better archers than Warlocks. Warlocks are pretty lame archers.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I meant "Archer" in the more general sense of "Repeatable ranged attacker", a job the Warlock is by far the best at.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I meant "Archer" in the more general sense of "Repeatable ranged attacker", a job the Warlock is by far the best at.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that, not unless you mean Hellfire Warlock binding Naberous (or however it is spelled) to prevent Con loss. Sure, they're pretty good at it, but normally a Greater Manyshot Swift Hunter will deal out more damage, particularly with a Greater Magic Weapon applied.

Speaking of, make sure you work out a deal with your local friendly arcane caster to get GMW on your bow. Even if you have to buy him a blasted 3rd level Pearl of Power to do it. With the number of arrows you are cranking out, those bonuses add up pretty damn fast.

Also, for additional damage output, I suggest Impact enhancement for your bow, which is a +2 enhancement that gives a flat +5 to damage. Per shot. Have fun.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Hm, I hope the DM wouldn't have pidgeonholed you into Ranger were your Dex not that good. I'll throw a vote towards the Swift Hunter archer.

[Draz74]

I agree with the people saying "no OotBI" ... but I have one teensy recommendation to add to the mix, if it's not too late.

Take your first level in Scout, before any Ranger levels. OK?

It would be a shame to give up 6 extra skill points that you could have had, in return for nothing.

Also, you don't need to take all five of the Favored Enemies that AlterForm suggested. If you're pretty sure, for example, that Oozes are going to be a pretty rare enemy in your campaign, and that the rest of your party can handle them when they show up, don't bother taking them as a Favored Enemy -- especially if you know that, say, orcs or dragons are going to be a common enemy. Overall, pick FE's based on the campaign; just give extra attention to any in-campaign baddies that do happen to be on AlterForm's list (for example, Undead tend to be common in lots of campaigns).

If you really want more information than you can take in all at once, here is the Swift Hunter's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=854152).

P.S. Scout 4/Ranger 16 may be the ideal combination of the two classes, especially if you can pick your Ranger spells out of splatbooks like SpC. But other combinations aren't much weaker. The following are all reasonably sensible:
Scout 18/Ranger 2
Scout 16/Ranger 4
Scout 14/Ranger 6
Scout 6/Ranger 14
Scout 3/Ranger 17

[bigbaddragon]

First of all thank you for so many replies :).

I've decided to go with Ranger 2/ Scout X for several reasons:
- I like scout class much more than ranger as it offers more neat abilities, skills and has better class skill list
- OotBI is a nono because that ranged precision shot of his (or whatever its called) is a standard action so no synergy with Manyshot
- The group I'm with is a bit rusty, this is their first time playing 3.5 I think, so I won't do anything nasty or try to trick the DM into giving me Belt of Battle or Travel Devotion or any other stuff like that in order to steal all the fun. I want everyone in the party to have fun with me being able to strike hard when they get themselves in trouble.

@ShneekeyTheLost: Thanks for that impact weapon property, didn't know about it. Which book is it from?

@Draz74: Thanks for the link, I'll look into it.

[Reel On, Love]

First of all thank you for so many replies :).

I've decided to go with Ranger 2/ Scout X for several reasons:
- I like scout class much more than ranger as it offers more neat abilities, skills and has better class skill list
- OotBI is a nono because that ranged precision shot of his (or whatever its called) is a standard action so no synergy with Manyshot
- The group I'm with is a bit rusty, this is their first time playing 3.5 I think, so I won't do anything nasty or try to trick the DM into giving me Belt of Battle or Travel Devotion or any other stuff like that in order to steal all the fun. I want everyone in the party to have fun with me being able to strike hard when they get themselves in trouble.


Travel Devotion involves no trickery whatsoever. You can save it for when you need it. It just lets you get Skirmish on each shot--which makes the Swift Hunter *good*, but not overwhelming.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Also, take four ranger levels anyway for the extra BAB point that'll give you your last attack.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

He shouldn't be getting full attacks often enough for it to matter, AK.

Also, try to find the "Splitting" enhancement, MIC IIRC. Again, almost overpowered, but you are playing a weaker build, so it should even out.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The enhancement I was thinking of was Collision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#collision). Luckily, it's in the SRD.

[bigbaddragon]

Travel Devotion involves no trickery whatsoever. You can save it for when you need it. It just lets you get Skirmish on each shot--which makes the Swift Hunter *good*, but not overwhelming.

I'm sorry, this was my bad, I didn't express myself correctly. I know that Travel Devotion is not overwhelming, but it would probably be in the group I'm in because they are very unexperienced and will be completely unoptimized.

[Kizara]

Question: Why is OotBI considered such a crap class?

What do you want from an archer that the class doesn't give?

[MeklorIlavator]

It forces you to be within 30 feet to use its ability(until the last level, where it is doubled to 60 feet), requires a single attack using a standard action, and generally fails to give much to any archer build that wasn't already available. Its only really noteworthy contribution is the ability to fire while threatened without provoking an attack of opportunity, but archery characters generally can take a 5-foot step, tumble, or are already outside melee range. Plus, if you really want the ability, use a ranger with the spell...arrowmind? I believe its in the Compete Adventurer, and t gives the same ability without using up class levels(and it takes a couple).

[Darrin]

Question: Why is OotBI considered such a crap class?

What do you want from an archer that the class doesn't give?

More than one attack per round.

Arrow damage tends to be horrendously low. OotBI's ranged precision caps out at 5d8, but it doesn't work with Rapid Shot, Multishot, or other extra-attack abilities. A Scout/Ranger with Multishot or the Travel Devotion can do a lot more damage.