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FlyMolo
2008-04-23, 10:04 PM
Just like the title says. They don't even have to be true. The best custom magic items you ever dreamed up in the armpit of a bad night. The best ways to level a whole city with only a few hundred gp and a cooperative artificer.

The best things you've ever built with physics. Airship balloons made of Walls of Force and emptied into a vacuum on the inside. Decanters of endless Water+Permanencied Wall of fire and a big tube= steam engine.

The time you managed to get a single wight/shadow/vampire under your control, and then overran a whole country. Delayed Blast Fireball and Time Stop used as a tool for assassinating people. DBF and Quintessence, for a nuke.

Things any sane DM wouldn't have let you do, despite how awesome they would have been.

My personal favorite is the city-leveling Airship and Spell-Storing Tiny arrows combo. Put shatter in them, fly up high and let fly. One Time Use items of Earthquake make great bunkerbusters.

Go on, run wild.

drengnikrafe
2008-04-23, 10:07 PM
Hey, DM, I have an idea.
It's a staff, and all you have to do is make a DC 15+Spell Level+Casters KAM Reflex save, then a Spellcraft check DC 10+Spell Level, and you catch and return any spell fired at you! I tried to design it so that someone about level... 4ish should be able to use it (My friend wanted one for our low level campaign). It's a Staff of Return Spell!

Didn't fly.

Jack Zander
2008-04-23, 10:10 PM
I tried to use my tower sheild as full-cover, then hide behind it, and then claim that it was also hidden since it was my equipment.


Didn't work...

SilentNight
2008-04-23, 10:14 PM
The first time our group got the psionics handbook we somehow over-looked the maximum power points equal to manifester level rule. I put all my power points into a single energy ball and killed about fourty of the fifty drow we were facing. The DM then said that the energy ball caused the cavern to collapse, kiling the rest. Now that same DM has a ban on psionics.

FinalJustice
2008-04-23, 10:18 PM
An adamantine ship with overland flight and stuff to boost flying speed permanently, controllable with move actions like a Flying Carpet.

For weaponry, permanent gate with suicidal balors. Nothing screams more awesome then firing kamikaze fire demon lords that Death Throes on impact. Some cyclonic blast cannons would be nice too. Oh, and counter measures to dispels, we do not want those balors going uncontrolled, do we?

Built in greater invisibility and zone of silence, for the obvious stealth purposes and some heroes feast daily for the crew.

Maybe some one use Locate City Bomb nukes, just for the case.

...What?

DrowVampyre
2008-04-23, 10:25 PM
I used to keep a few slots open with my wizard every day, and if at the end of the day I hadn't used them, I'd prep Explosive Runes and cast it on a page in a book I carried in my haversack. Never ended up having to use it, but by the end of the campaign I had at lest a hundred or so of the runes in there...it was my mininuke ace in the hole. ^_^

Reinboom
2008-04-23, 10:32 PM
Something that -ALMOST- didn't fly with my DM.

I was playing a Sorcerer / Fiend of Possession, with Leadership. (I was broken..)
My Cohort was a Barbarian with fast healing and an insane amount of Con and DR, I called him 'Kowy'.

A legion (yes, legion) of red dragons invaded the town the party was based in. When we struggled to drop in to the center of it, I did a bit of recon to find the lords, and then I had a plan in order to end it.
"I possess Kowy's axe, then I order Kowy to run straight in to the main red dragon general at the north part of the city."
DM: "Uh, no. Kowy refuses, why would he do something like that?"
Me: "Hm... because... *looks over his character sheet*.. Ah! I'm his god!"
DM: "*checks character sheet*... well, can't argue with that. He does so."

When trying to think of his patron deity when I first got him, I wrote my other character down as a joke while I tried to think of something to put there. I forgot to change it.



For something I was actually turned down on.
A repeating magical trap built in to a gauntlet with the trigger of 'when I open my hand', and the reset switch of 'when I close my hand'. The first spell idea in it was for antimagic field. He turned down everything I suggested beyond that, however.

Mad Wizard
2008-04-23, 10:36 PM
An adamantine ship with overland flight and stuff to boost flying speed permanently, controllable with move actions like a Flying Carpet.

For weaponry, permanent gate with suicidal balors. Nothing screams more awesome then firing kamikaze fire demon lords that Death Throes on impact. Some cyclonic blast cannons would be nice too. Oh, and counter measures to dispels, we do not want those balors going uncontrolled, do we?

Built in greater invisibility and zone of silence, for the obvious stealth purposes and some heroes feast daily for the crew.

Maybe some one use Locate City Bomb nukes, just for the case.

...What?

Heh. This reminds me of the flying fortress me and my friend designed once... basically just a flying cube covered in spell turrets (DMG2) and dancing ballistas. It also had "traps" that went off whenever the cube was damaged that cast make whole on it, and "shields" made from a widened telekinetic sphere cast by an extremely high level caster.

Emperor Tippy
2008-04-23, 10:41 PM
Heh. This reminds me of the flying fortress me and my friend designed once... basically just a flying cube covered in spell turrets (DMG2) and dancing ballistas. It also had "traps" that went off whenever the cube was damaged that cast make whole on it, and "shields" made from a widened telekinetic sphere cast by an extremely high level caster.

Based on the Stronghold Builders Guide death ships cost about 260K each.

Ascension
2008-04-23, 10:44 PM
Heh. This reminds me of the flying fortress me and my friend designed once... basically just a flying cube covered in spell turrets (DMG2) and dancing ballistas. It also had "traps" that went off whenever the cube was damaged that cast make whole on it, and "shields" made from a widened telekinetic sphere cast by an extremely high level caster.

So basically a borg cube?

Let me guess, it's crewed by a group of half-golem artificers who capture the best and the brightest from across the planes in order to assimilate them into their sinister crew...

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-23, 10:49 PM
...half-golem...Schwa? :smalleek: Please tell me that that's not actually a template. I don't want to consider how it came about. I'd have just called 'em Warforged.

Ascension
2008-04-23, 10:52 PM
Schwa? :smalleek: Please tell me that that's not actually a template. I don't want to consider how it came about. I'd have just called 'em Warforged.

Yep, it is. I picked it for the fantasy borg because the golem parts are grafted on, making it simple to become a half-golem, while it's rather difficult to become a warforged.

IIRC it's in MM2, so it's 3.0, but not hard to convert. Also I think you have to make a will save when you get the parts grafted onto you to resist going crazy, or something like that.

monty
2008-04-23, 10:52 PM
Schwa? :smalleek: Please tell me that that's not actually a template. I don't want to consider how it came about. I'd have just called 'em Warforged.

Book of Templates has a half-creature metatemplate that can be used with golems. Beyond that, though, I don't know if there's anything.

Collin152
2008-04-23, 10:56 PM
Schwa? :smalleek: Please tell me that that's not actually a template. I don't want to consider how it came about. I'd have just called 'em Warforged.

Not all half-un's were... spawned... the same way.
Just look at halflings.
And centaurs.

Reinboom
2008-04-23, 11:00 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020803a
Has the "More half golems!" web enhancement for MMII
:smalltongue:

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-23, 11:02 PM
Hey, you know as well as I do that Halflings are the result of Elves and Dwarves boinking a thousand years ago. As for Centaurs, well...a Wizard did it.

Collin152
2008-04-23, 11:03 PM
As for Centaurs, well...a Wizard did it.

No doubt, only a wizard could get that lonely.

Ascension
2008-04-23, 11:04 PM
No doubt, only a wizard could get that lonely.

Wizards and Catherine the Great of Russia, if you believe the rumors.

Collin152
2008-04-23, 11:09 PM
Wizards and Catherine the Great of Russia, if you believe the rumors.

That would yield a beast with the lower body of a human, the hed of a horse, and possibly the forelimbs of a horse.
Frighteinng, stupid, and not at all fun to ride on.

Randel
2008-04-24, 01:13 AM
DM: No you can't take Divine metamagic and Fell animate at first level in order to start play with an army of zombified sheep.

expirement10K14
2008-04-24, 05:35 AM
The DM would not let me gain divine ranks by using my insane diplomacy to gain followers. What a Jerk was he, I had around 3000 (Evangelist with an insane charisma in a metropolis full of godless level 1 commoners:smallbiggrin: )

Edit: Remembered another.
There is a feat somewhere (can't find it now) that allows your to deal one negative level on a target, once per day against a will save. Use this at level one with a 4 wisdom and 18 charisma, and in 1d4 days you are a wight. The DM said no.:smallfrown:

Dode
2008-04-24, 05:57 AM
Introduce a water pump.

Bassikpoet
2008-04-24, 06:01 AM
Step 1: Get turned to stone
Step 2: Use stone shape to enlarge female pectoral area
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-24, 06:19 AM
Make someone unknowingly commit interspecies homosexual necrophilia by having my pixie pale master assume the shape of a human woman and seduce the NPC (with suggestion, so I guess it's also rape and mindrape).

I had perfectly logical reasons to do it!

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-24, 06:21 AM
Casting Magic Missile at the darkness. It gives you c XP.

loopy
2008-04-24, 06:50 AM
Permanent ring of glibness. Man that would of been awesome.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-24, 06:52 AM
"He's a sharp dressed man, easy goin' man..."

Talic
2008-04-24, 07:51 AM
10x10 Box in airship. Continuous reset trap, activates 1 round. delay 1 round, resets 1 round. It cycles, once every 3 rounds. Effect: Summon Nature's ally 3, for 1d4+1 Monkeys.

Other part of the trap. Continuous reset trap.

Trigger: Weight on floor.
Effect: Delay 1 round, then open trapdoor in floor. Round 3, reset.

Now, we summon between 2-5 monkeys, one round later drop them out of the box, and reset.

Now make 20 boxes like this. 40-100 monkeys, every 18 seconds, falling out in a delightful rain, hitting the ground, and going back where they came from. Note: for monkeys to impact ground, you must be at an altitude of 900 feet or below (+300 for every caster level you raise the 1st trap effect).

I was hoping that, after a month, every monkey in the world that saw the bottom of the ship as it flew overhead, would run in terror.

Kesnit
2008-04-24, 08:27 AM
DM: No you can't take Divine metamagic and Fell animate at first level in order to start play with an army of zombified sheep.

Speaking of Catherine the Great... :smalleek:

Burley
2008-04-24, 08:41 AM
I've been trying to think up a way to make the Megazord, with individual zords. My DMs have never once even given me a suggestion... They turn me down as soon as I say: "'Member the Power Rangers? Well, I was thinkin'..."

Meschaelene
2008-04-24, 08:41 AM
In Cyberpunk 2020, convince another player that the "Midnight Lady(tm)" implant on that corpse could be used as head armor. Luckily, the player did not know what it was, and spent the next 8 sessions wearing it as a hat.

HoopyFrood
2008-04-24, 10:26 AM
Our Star Wars GM didn't let us install turbolasers in all the empty emplacement points in a bulk freighter, thus making a Q Ship.
That's not surprising, because we would've had more turbolasers than an imperial star destroyer.

Then later, he wouldn't let me try to pin and crush an AT-PT, not because of the size differential (which is legal) but because it was a vehicle.
I could've done it, too. It's grapple modifier was only two more than mine.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-24, 11:10 AM
In Cyberpunk 2020, convince another player that the "Midnight Lady(tm)" implant on that corpse could be used as head armor. Luckily, the player did not know what it was, and spent the next 8 sessions wearing it as a hat.

You've out-grossed mine. Convincing someone to wear cybernetic female genitalia on their head after presumably cutting them out? Ew.

_Puppetmaster_
2008-04-24, 11:11 AM
We were at level one, and I convinced the DM to let my wizard have a white dwarf star as a focus for a custom spell. Well, I bought a spell component pouch, and started casting the spell, but cancelled at the last minute. The dungeon collapsed from the gravitational pull.

Darrin
2008-04-24, 11:37 AM
Now make 20 boxes like this. 40-100 monkeys, every 18 seconds, falling out in a delightful rain, hitting the ground, and going back where they came from.

Very amusing. But did any of them manage to work out a decent script for Hamlet?

Brauron
2008-04-24, 11:59 AM
DM: "No, your one functioning eye does not entitle you to kingship over tribes of Grimlocks."

Zorg
2008-04-24, 01:01 PM
In a space pirate campaign:

Install a lifejammer helm to power my jacuuzi (apparently there's 'too evil' for some space pirates...).

One of the other characters was from an aquatic world, so wore armour made from a giant crab. I wanted to get some sort of tailor made virus produced that would bond it permanently to his skin, purely so I could make jokes at the captain that the ship had crabs.

Put hypno rays in a rival's TV so he'd tell everyone there were hypno rays in his TV and get hauled off to the nut house. I settled for blowing up his house with a howitzer instead.

'Ghost ride the whip' with a tank through the lobby of a hotel that gave me poor service (couldn't get it from the cargo hold to the hotel easily).

Dress the skillmonkey in black leather and keep him in a cupboard so when he was needed in a mission we could summon him by bringing out the gimp (the player also objected for some reason).

What's scary is thinking of all the mad, insane things I've wanted to do and going 'no... they let me do that one...'

Da King
2008-04-24, 02:51 PM
He wouldn't let me use a giant meathammer. I knew all the rules required but he wouldn't (and still won't) let me do it, because he thinks its stupid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with crushing people with a giant hammer, but he just won't let me do it. Why Dwight? WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

hylian chozo
2008-04-24, 03:55 PM
Hiding the Halfling rogue in the Warforged's empty chest compartment so he could jump out at unexpected times for sneak attacks and scaring NPC's.

DM said no.

Grommen
2008-04-24, 08:40 PM
My players recently vetoed the following:

"Beach Balls of Annihilation"

I was wiling to give them some in their next treasure horde.

**********************

So we have Half-Elves, Halflings, Half-Ork, Half-Demons, Half-Golems, and Centaurs. Has anyone ever tried to get a Half-Sheep in a game?

EvilElitest
2008-04-24, 08:41 PM
I tried to use my tower sheild as full-cover, then hide behind it, and then claim that it was also hidden since it was my equipment.


Didn't work...

nice

I tried to attack the darkness
from
EE

Laesin
2008-04-24, 09:05 PM
Suit of Armor with lots of permanencied Symbols of Weakness.
Triggers
1 When I am attacked
2 Immediately after I am attacked
3 When I am attacked a second time while the first symbol is resetting
4 Immediately after....

Repeat as many times as I could. Instant paralysis to just about everything vulnerable to ability damage.

DM rejected it even though it was just an expansion of an idea he'd used in my game earlier.

JaxGaret
2008-04-24, 09:22 PM
Permanent ring of glibness. Man that would of been awesome.

One of the other player's PCs in one of the campaigns I'm in has a Tongue Ring of Glibness.

He's got a sick, sick Bluff mod.

Da Beast
2008-04-24, 09:46 PM
I've always wanted to attach an instant fortress to a balistae bolt and shout the command word just as someone else pulls the trigger. At 50,000+ a pop I could probably think of a better way to kill things, but launching a giant castle through the air is just so damn cool.

FlyMolo
2008-04-24, 09:51 PM
I've always wanted to attach an instant fortress to a balistae bolt and shout the command word just as someone else pulls the trigger. At 50,000+ a pop I could probably think of a better way to kill things, but launching a giant castle through the air is just so damn cool.
This is what sovereign glue is for. But yes, that's pretty awesome.

I like the Tongue Ring of glibness one too. Thematically appropriate. :smallwink:

evisiron
2008-04-24, 10:05 PM
In a Star Wars game we were very very seriously considering plowing a captured star destroyer (note: we are awesome) into the imperial world we had a seek and destroy mission on.

Well, at least until the DM reminded us of the hostages...

bdh5533
2008-04-24, 11:58 PM
shrink item on 1/2 of a critical mass of plutonium,

shrink item on another 1/2 of a critical mass of plutonium,

put the two halves, now pebble sized together.

drop said pebble from an air ship, BOOM! nuclear bombs!

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-25, 12:03 AM
Okay, what would happen if you cast Shrink Item on a block of Adamantium, placed it snuggly inside another block of 1 ft thick Adamantium, then Sovereign Glued the lid of the box closed?

bdh5533
2008-04-25, 12:08 AM
I've always wanted to attach an instant fortress to a balistae bolt and shout the command word just as someone else pulls the trigger. At 50,000+ a pop I could probably think of a better way to kill things, but launching a giant castle through the air is just so damn cool.

on all shrinking and re-enlarging things i always kept in mind inertia.

so the force you exert when firing, is the the same force that acts on the new mass. so this would make the balista bolt fire, then you would need to utter the command word as it got over the target (drop a castle on them) rather than being able to hurl castles :)

Talic
2008-04-25, 04:39 AM
Very amusing. But did any of them manage to work out a decent script for Hamlet?

I couldn't figure a decent way to Summon typewriter, or I could have had the Gettysburg Address.

Dannoth
2008-04-25, 06:22 AM
Step one - Create several Ion Stones of Endless Breath
Step two - Cast minimize on everyone but the rogue
Step three - Everyone but the rogue jumps into a bag of holding

happyturtle
2008-04-25, 06:53 AM
Step one - Create several Ion Stones of Endless Breath
Step two - Cast minimize on everyone but the rogue
Step three - Everyone but the rogue jumps into a bag of holding

Hmm... even if the DM allows it, I don't trust the rogue that much. :smallconfused:

monty
2008-04-25, 08:37 AM
on all shrinking and re-enlarging things i always kept in mind inertia.

so the force you exert when firing, is the the same force that acts on the new mass. so this would make the balista bolt fire, then you would need to utter the command word as it got over the target (drop a castle on them) rather than being able to hurl castles :)

Stop killing the catgirls! If I want castle projectiles, I'll have my castle projectiles...

Fighteer
2008-04-25, 09:08 AM
shrink item on 1/2 of a critical mass of plutonium,

shrink item on another 1/2 of a critical mass of plutonium,

put the two halves, now pebble sized together.

drop said pebble from an air ship, BOOM! nuclear bombs!
The problem of getting the plutonium aside, all you'd get is a moderately big bang and a few square miles of land that are poisoned to all life for a few thousand years. You need compression to make an effective nuke (modern weapons use a sphere of shaped plastic explosive). A wall of force or telekinetic sphere would do the trick nicely.

One also has to examine whether magically shrinking something displaces its mass. If not, the first Pu mass you tried to shrink would become critical in the process and promptly remove you from the material plane. Remember, criticality is a function of both mass and density. The more you have of one, the less you need of the other.

Lastly, do you know how big a nuclear explosion is? That airship had better be pretty high up and move pretty fast (like, ten thousand plus feet and close to the speed of sound) or you'd get caught in your own blast.

Sorry about the catgirls, but if you're going to try to introduce nuclear physics into D&D, you have to do your research. :-)

BRC
2008-04-25, 09:12 AM
How about stuff my DM let me do that he proably shouldn't have, like putting armor and battering ram on a carraige with an armored turret on tom, then hitting the entire thing with a Permancied Animate Object, thus creating a tank.


My we had alot of fun with that, Squish Squish Squish

Kredine
2008-04-25, 09:37 AM
Again something I did that I shouldn't have been allowed to.
Tricked a city guard leader thing to appear in a sex show, in the process signing a contract handing over the deed of the town to me, then had sex for him for hours causing a heart attack.

Da Beast
2008-04-25, 07:28 PM
on all shrinking and re-enlarging things i always kept in mind inertia.

so the force you exert when firing, is the the same force that acts on the new mass. so this would make the balista bolt fire, then you would need to utter the command word as it got over the target (drop a castle on them) rather than being able to hurl castles :)

My way is more entertaining. At least the original idea of dropping it on the deck of an enemy ship to instantly sink enemy pirates would still work.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-25, 07:31 PM
Again something I did that I shouldn't have been allowed to.
Tricked a city guard leader thing to appear in a sex show, in the process signing a contract handing over the deed of the town to me, then had sex for him for hours causing a heart attack.

Meh, ANYBODY can do that qith a Quickened PW:Pain.

Much more stylish to cause WIS damage.

Then, a few weeks later, try dramatizicing Eyesight To the Blind.

Talic
2008-04-26, 03:49 AM
Well, once I tried to use Handle Animal on a BBEG druid that was shifted...

Hey, his type was animal !

My biggest challenge was going to be trying to get him to stay in wild shape long enough for me to teach him 26 tricks.

SilverClawShift
2008-04-26, 09:12 AM
My DM didn't let me play as a warforged with a 'female' body.

That was early on in our gaming careers, and he says looking back it was a pretty random decision on his part, and that if I want to play a female-build warforged now I can :smallsmile:

FlyMolo
2008-04-26, 12:31 PM
on all shrinking and re-enlarging things i always kept in mind inertia.

so the force you exert when firing, is the the same force that acts on the new mass. so this would make the balista bolt fire, then you would need to utter the command word as it got over the target (drop a castle on them) rather than being able to hurl castles :)

Not only are you killing catgirls, you're doing it wrong.

One of the most fundamental things about physics is that there's no such thing as a constant inertial reference frame. Stopping dead for no reason is one of those things that isn't allowed to happen. According to relativity and counting arguments and various things like that, if the bolt has it's own frame of reference(and it does), P=mv. Conservation of momentum: P has to stay the same (not counting air resistance, because it's silly.) v is zero, of course. (It's not moving relative to itself), so P is zero. M changes, but it's still multiplied by zero to get zero. Ergo, it stays moving at zero speed, or relative to us, damn fast right at the bad guys.

Sorry, catgirls die needlessly, and the castle still squashes people.

Corinthus
2008-04-26, 12:51 PM
Actually, the momentum must be constant in all frames, and the moment you start gaining mass out of nowhere, there will be a frame in which momentum is not conserved. If the Castle keeps a constant velocity through the process, then momentum is not conserved in the "stationary" frame, and if it stops (or just slows), it is not conserved in the "moving" frame.

Conclusion: Physics must work differently in the DnD universe, or the shrunken castle must be very, very dense.

Edit: It is therefore up to the DM in question, who is perfectly entitled to have an absolute reference frame if he wants to.

FlyMolo
2008-04-26, 12:59 PM
Actually, the momentum must be constant in all frames, and the moment you start gaining mass out of nowhere, there will be a frame in which momentum is not conserved. If the Castle keeps a constant velocity through the process, then momentum is not conserved in the "stationary" frame, and if it stops (or just slows), it is not conserved in the "moving" frame.

Conclusion: Physics must work differently in the DnD universe, or the shrunken castle must be very, very dense.

Edit: It is therefore up to the DM in question, who is perfectly entitled to have an absolute reference frame if he wants to.

I suppose. That's a good point, really. In fact, we can conclude that gaining mass out of nowhere break physics. This goes in the Duh category of science.

And if it was very very dense, that wouldn't be helpful, would it?

Corinthus
2008-04-26, 01:06 PM
And if it was very very dense, that wouldn't be helpful, would it?

No, but it was a valid mathimatical solution.

While we're on the subject of Real-life Physics that doesn't work in Dnd, lets just say Anti-matter and nukes, and leave it at that.

FlyMolo
2008-04-26, 01:31 PM
No, but it was a valid mathimatical solution.

While we're on the subject of Real-life Physics that doesn't work in Dnd, lets just say Anti-matter and nukes, and leave it at that.

Agreed on both points. (yay anti-osmium)

On the other hand, if your players are abusing Shrink Item, get the Overdiety of gravity to make Shrink Item simply make items denser, as well as smaller. Must remember that.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-04-26, 01:36 PM
It was a naval campaign.

Our ship was temporarily scuttled in a doldrum, on a jungle island. We temporarily founded a bar, while fixing the ship. Then we went out and used a native rowboat to fish for jellyfish. I was the ship blacksmith, so I made a bar, and some wires. We effectively made an electric motor. It was awesome. And it worked!

Corinthus
2008-04-26, 01:42 PM
So they were what, electric jellyfish? Since i could have sworn that the regular ones were just poisonous.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-04-26, 01:44 PM
I can't remember... But the DM said it worked, so I suppose...

OverWilliam
2008-04-26, 02:14 PM
I can't remember... But the DM said it worked, so I suppose...

Sounds like Science! to me! :smallbiggrin:

monty
2008-04-26, 02:27 PM
Actually, the momentum must be constant in all frames, and the moment you start gaining mass out of nowhere, there will be a frame in which momentum is not conserved. If the Castle keeps a constant velocity through the process, then momentum is not conserved in the "stationary" frame, and if it stops (or just slows), it is not conserved in the "moving" frame.

Conclusion: Physics must work differently in the DnD universe, or the shrunken castle must be very, very dense.

Edit: It is therefore up to the DM in question, who is perfectly entitled to have an absolute reference frame if he wants to.

But conservation of momentum is dependent on conservation of energy. The fact that you're gaining mass out of nowhere makes all conservation laws meaningless.

OverWilliam
2008-04-26, 02:48 PM
The way I see it, there's only one factor left that can tip the balance.

Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)

:smallbiggrin:

Lycar
2008-04-26, 03:30 PM
Sounds like Science to me! :smallbiggrin:

Actually, this sounds like Science! to me.

There is a skill in GURPS of that name. See, you have your normal, down-to-earth every-day science skills like chemestry, mechanics, physics etc. but to pull off that kind of mad scientist science where you build those contraptions out of a madman's fever dreams, this takes skill points in Science! skill. :smallwink:

Lycar

OverWilliam
2008-04-26, 03:54 PM
Muchas Gracias, and edited accordingly. :smallbiggrin:

GoC
2008-04-26, 03:57 PM
But conservation of momentum is dependent on conservation of energy. The fact that you're gaining mass out of nowhere makes all conservation laws meaningless.

Historically it's backwords. Conservation of momentum->conservation of energy.

Dallas-Dakota
2008-04-26, 04:51 PM
Munchkin.
:smallbiggrin:

Talic
2008-04-26, 05:39 PM
Actually the specific rule is Mass and Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. When you lose 1, you gain the other, and vice versa. It's a very common misconception.

In this instance, you are losing magical energy, and gaining mass.

Further, if mass x velocity = momentum (and it does), then it stands to reason that increasing mass will decrease, but not eliminate velocity. When you increase mass by that much, however, it will seem to stop, because of how much velocity must drop to compensate.

Think of it this way. More mass, same energy pushing it.

What'll go faster? A 800 pound car with a 4 cylinder engine, or a 2300pound car with a 4 cylinder engine? Same principle.

Well, either that, or magic literally changes the laws of physics as it needs to. Your call.

shadow_archmagi
2008-04-26, 05:44 PM
Actually, this sounds like Science! to me.

See, you have your normal, down-to-earth every-day science skills like chemestry, mechanics, physics etc. but to pull off that kind of mad scientist science where you build those contraptions out of a madman's fever dreams, this takes skill points in Science! skill. :smallwink:

Lycar

If my group ever goes Gurps, every character I make will have that skill.

...


Even if I'm DMing.

Count D20
2008-04-26, 10:05 PM
The first time our group got the psionics handbook we somehow over-looked the maximum power points equal to manifester level rule. I put all my power points into a single energy ball and killed about fourty of the fifty drow we were facing. The DM then said that the energy ball caused the cavern to collapse, kiling the rest. Now that same DM has a ban on psionics.

Have you told him/her about the power point limit?
Knowing that the previous incident was illegal would soften their opinion i bet.

Bob the Urgh
2008-04-26, 10:24 PM
Not true, mass can be created and destroyed, the law doesn't apply on a molecular level. Example: photon, only has a mass when traveling at the speed of light.

SurlySeraph
2008-04-26, 10:27 PM
@^: Not exactly. Mass and energy can be converted into each other, but the total amount of mass and energy in the universe can't change. That is, the universe could be all energy or all mass, but no energy or mass could cease to exist.

Hadrian_Emrys
2008-04-26, 10:29 PM
Not all half-un's were... spawned... the same way.
Just look at halflings.
And centaurs.

Centaur: The CharOp version of "The Beast With Two Backs". :smallamused:

Talic
2008-04-26, 11:39 PM
@^: Not exactly. Mass and energy can be converted into each other, but the total amount of mass and energy in the universe can't change. That is, the universe could be all energy or all mass, but no energy or mass could cease to exist.

Exactly. (Matter + Energy) is always constant. Matter can change, and so can energy, but the total is always constant.

Collin152
2008-04-26, 11:49 PM
Exactly. (Matter + Energy) is always constant. Matter can change, and so can energy, but the total is always constant.

As far as we know.

GoC
2008-04-27, 01:12 PM
Actually the specific rule is Mass and Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. When you lose 1, you gain the other, and vice versa. It's a very common misconception.

Further, if mass x velocity = momentum (and it does), then it stands to reason that increasing mass will decrease, but not eliminate velocity. When you increase mass by that much, however, it will seem to stop, because of how much velocity must drop to compensate.
Another more common misconception is that energy doesn't have mass.:smalltongue:
So you can't actually gain mass unless you're getting it from an outside source. So if magical energy is suddenly going into the miniature castle then what happens next depends on whether this energy is traveling at the same speed as the castle when they combine.

Superglucose
2008-04-27, 05:30 PM
Well, for SOME reason I wanted 2+int skills as a wizard. My DM decided I didn't get the +int skills, so I had 2 skill points... at first level. Later, my DM decided that since we were starting out we got 5 gp with which to buy our equipment, and I didn't start with a spellbook. Later, I decided to leave.

nargbop
2008-04-27, 06:10 PM
Well, for SOME reason I wanted 2+int skills as a wizard. My DM decided I didn't get the +int skills, so I had 2 skill points... at first level. Later, my DM decided that since we were starting out we got 5 gp with which to buy our equipment, and I didn't start with a spellbook. Later, I decided to leave.

Seriously? Perhaps there were reasons, AWFUL reasons to ignore the rules for intelligence bonuses like that. Like, you being the only wizard in the whole world. If you're playing Dungeons and Dragons, you should at least follow such basic rules as the number of skill points. Why in heaven's name would the wizard, the one who provides Knowledge checks, have so few skill points.
First level gets quadrupled skill points. Unless in that game, that was ignored too. It's a good thing he didn't make you roll a Balance check to use the bathroom, or no one would ever... well you get the idea.

Jastermereel
2008-04-29, 03:13 PM
Wouldn't the castle-launcher physics issue be largely resolved if you simply had the castle appear a split-second before impact rather than a split-second after launching, thereby bypassing all that messy mass-energy while in flight discussion? Isn't there a magical talking mouth spell you could graft onto this already overpowered concept to have it yell the trigger phrase "oh no, not again" just before impact?

theMycon
2008-04-29, 10:06 PM
Evil necromancer is animating skeletons & zombies, right in front of us. I, a cleric, figure "well, they're magically animated, mindless, and produce no magic of their own. So... they should fall to bones/corpses, right?" I cast dispel. DM asks "why?" I respond with previous logic. He says no. I request a competitive casting check. He says no. I ask why. He thinks for a moment, and has the whole crowd go berserk and attack the nearest creature (other undead, us, caster) for 1d4 = 1 round, then go back to attacking us.

DM says never do it again.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-29, 10:17 PM
Evil necromancer is animating skeletons & zombies, right in front of us. I, a cleric, figure "well, they're magically animated, mindless, and produce no magic of their own. So... they should fall to bones/corpses, right?" I cast dispel. DM asks "why?" I respond with previous logic. He says no. I request a competitive casting check. He says no. I ask why. He thinks for a moment, and has the whole crowd go berserk and attack the nearest creature (other undead, us, caster) for 1d4 = 1 round, then go back to attacking us.

DM says never do it again.
Animate Dead
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Clr 3, Death 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: One or more corpses touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell turns the bones or bodies of dead creatures into undead skeletons or zombies that follow your spoken commands.

The undead can follow you, or they can remain in an area and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the place. They remain animated until they are destroyed. (A destroyed skeleton or zombie can’t be animated again.)

Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit)

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit.

Skeletons
A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.

Zombies
A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a true anatomy.

Material Component
You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse you intend to animate. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless, burned-out shells.By RAW, that really wouldn't have worked, sorry. The DM was right, for once.

Kredine
2008-04-30, 04:32 AM
In which book can I find one of these instant fortresses?

senrath
2008-04-30, 05:19 AM
In which book can I find one of these instant fortresses?

DM guide. Also in the SRD.

Kredine
2008-04-30, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kredine
In which book can I find one of these instant fortresses?

DM guide. Also in the SRD.

Thanks =]. I've never seen it in the DMG, guess i didn't read it enough.

CTG
2008-04-30, 08:57 AM
In my wrold, in one kingdom you can petition a representative of the king for the settlement of civil arguments (essecenally a civil court). It was overseen by a human that looked acted and had the stats of Joseph Wapner from The People's Court.

The PCs (with 3 of 5 being good alignment) wanted to raid a nearby goblin kingdom (A cave overrun by the buggers), kidnap a good number of them, train them in the laws of the kingdom and make a living off of the kingdom's first law firm.

I said no.

Worira
2008-04-30, 09:05 AM
My DM didn't let me play as a warforged with a 'female' body.

That was early on in our gaming careers, and he says looking back it was a pretty random decision on his part, and that if I want to play a female-build warforged now I can :smallsmile:

Except that Warforged aren't built that way. There's no reason for House Cannith to do that. You could get a more slender build, and a feminine voice and personality, but it would still be flat-chested.

Artemician
2008-04-30, 09:07 AM
Except that Warforged aren't built that way. There's no reason for House Cannith to do that. You could get a more slender build, and a feminine voice and personality, but it would still be flat-chested.

Invent a reason. That's what Pen and Paper RPGs allow you to do, after all.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-30, 09:12 AM
Yeah, but there's just about no reason, really. Warforged are massed, not produced one-by-one, so there really is no way to make that fit.

Really, there's no way to integrate Breast Plate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreastPlate) without hurting credibility.

Artemician
2008-04-30, 09:17 AM
Yeah, but there's just about no reason, really. Warforged are massed, not produced one-by-one, so there really is no way to make that fit.

Really, there's no way to integrate Breast Plate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreastPlate) without hurting credibility.

Does there need to be a reason for everything? Especially in a fantasy Kitchen Sink Setting like Eberron. Credibility is overrated :p