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Burley
2008-04-24, 10:44 AM
One of my players is playing a beguiler, and I just bumped them to level 3. I already posted a thread about what feats I should recommend to him. He decided on Obtain Familiar.
I had just stranded them in the middle of a jungle, so, Tiny Viper was the obvious choice for him. We roleplayed getting the viper (egg fell in another players hair and it finished hatching in the beguiler's hands), but he'll need to take the 24 hours for the ceremony later.

My question is: When the cost for obtaining a familiar is 100gp, what materials are you spending the 100gp on? How would I go about letting him get these materials in the middle of a jungle?

Hunter Noventa
2008-04-24, 10:56 AM
I think it's like, incense and oils and what not to perform the ritual. You can always handwave the cost if you like, you are the DM after all.

If not, perhaps have him make a few search and/or knowledge :nature checks (possibly aided by a druid or the likc if you have one) To gather compatible materials in the jungle.

Frosty
2008-04-24, 11:00 AM
already posted a thread about what feats I should recommend to him. He decided on Obtain Familiar.

Good to see my advice was taken.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-04-24, 11:01 AM
Well it sounds like you actually take this stuff seriously, so this won't help much, but in my rather tongue in cheek campaigns, they just literally set gold on fire.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-24, 11:06 AM
Incenses and the like, yes. But what better place to find rare and exotic ingredients than the steamy, demon-hunted jungles of Khitai? (Or any other jungles, for that matter. It's a pretty strong fantasy tradition...) Have the player make some Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (nature) checks and write it off from whatever treasure you're going to be distributing to them if you're really concerned about it. Generally, 100 gp is nothing to worry about (just don't make a habit of writing off these costs).

Burley
2008-04-24, 12:24 PM
I'd normally wave stuff like this, but my problem players (Whom I rant about constantly) would throw a hissy fit. I don't want to seem like I'm playing favorites, especially with the beguiler's player. He's the DM of our other campaign (every other week) and I don't want them to think I'm sucking up.

The fact of the matter is that instead of just saying "Hey, Burley. I took Obtain Familiar and I have a Tiny Viper now." He came to me and asked if we could role play it (through IM). I just don't want my other players to give me crap.
Also, at the end of the last session, I gave them all 500gp (and I've already given them enough loot to equip them all fully), so, I don't want to wave anything for anybody.

Human Paragon 3
2008-04-24, 12:29 PM
Retroactively give him 400 GP instead of 500 GP? Have him pay out 25 gp each to his other friends for helping him find the vital ingredients in the jungle?

Kizara
2008-04-24, 03:30 PM
Well it sounds like you actually take this stuff seriously, so this won't help much, but in my rather tongue in cheek campaigns, they just literally set gold on fire.

Dude, that's just made of awesome. I'm SOOO doing that next time I have a arcane caster. Thanks for sharing. :)

Jasdoif
2008-04-24, 04:13 PM
You don't want to waive the cost, so you want to come up with equivalents given the particular setting. OK, let me think....You could have him pay 20XP instead of 100gp, investing a bit of his life force into the to-be familiar or whatever. I believe 5gp-to-1XP is the common rate.

Or, you could make him come up with the equivalent value. For instance...Profession (herbalist) checks to acquire the 100gp worth of stuff. Or if you'd rather, 33.4gp worth of Profession (herbalist) checks, to start Craft (alchemy) checks to get 100gp worth of processed stuff (since the raw materials for Craft cost one-third the final cost).

CASTLEMIKE
2008-04-24, 05:41 PM
Have them search for rare herbs in the jungle. Something common there and the key to the ceremony could be valuable (100 GP) back home.

Maybe something happens while obtaining the familiar during the ceremony. He ends up with two familiars or summons one for one of the other party members.

Randel
2008-04-24, 08:06 PM
DM: Okay, after searching through the jungle for an hour you find rare herbs worth 100 gp which can be used to perform the ceremony.

Player 1: All right, I perform the ceremony.

Player 2: I look for more of those herbs.

DM: Huh, why?

Player 2: So I can get a bunch of it and sell it for 100 gp more when we get back to civilization.

Player 3: You can do that? Cool, I'll help together we should be able to find loads of it! Heck, with our bags of holding, we can carry loads of it.

Player 4: Lets look for other herbs and maybe some rare animals.

DM: ... okay. Make your rolls.

Players 2, 3 and 4: *roll pretty well*

DM: Okay, working together you guys got 31,890 gp worth of rare herbs, trees, and endangered animals. A group of elven druids approach you asking why you are stealing their jungle.


or...

DM: You find a single viper egg, which oddly enough is a gnomish delicacy. You might be able to get 33.4 gp for it if you went to another country.

Player 1: I hatch it to see if I can get a familiar.

DM: Okay, using your craft(hatching an egg) skill. You take 24 hours to hatch it. Using the 33.4 gp egg as raw materials you crafted exactly enough rare viper to perform the ceremony needed to obtain a familiar. Congratulations, you have a viper as a familiar!

Player 2: I see if I can find anything.

DM: after a 24 hour search, you find a poodle that could go for 100 gp to a half-elven aristocrat. Congratulations, you now have a familiar.

Player 3: I try to find the half-elven aristocrat who lost it.

PollyOliver
2008-04-24, 08:35 PM
In the same vein as burning the gold, you could get rid of it magically. Perhaps the process of attuning yourself to your familiar requires a minor sacrifice of some sort, and he melts down the gold while burning incense/oils/sweet herbs and it's sort of magically consumed at part of the ritual?

Just an idea.

Collin152
2008-04-24, 08:37 PM
The binding ritual mandates the presence of a Binding Spirit, who demands payment before he pronounces you Master and Familiar.

Randel
2008-04-24, 09:25 PM
the 100 gp is actually spent on "Wizzo brand happy familiar treats" which you use feed to your familiar-to-be while saying "Who's the good familiar? You are! You are!"

After about a day of getting these treats from you they are bonded forever.


Though to be honest, if I ever DM a game I'll houserule that wizards and sorcerers don't lose XP from slain familiars and the ritual to replace them requires a trip to the pet store and a payment of about 8 cp which can be taken at any time.

Seriously, druids can use their familiars as a diversion by setting them on fire and then just sit in the woods and brainwash some other woodland creature into being their minion the very next day... without paying a single copper piece or losing XP.

Craig1f
2008-04-25, 09:00 AM
the 100 gp is actually spent on "Wizzo brand happy familiar treats" which you use feed to your familiar-to-be while saying "Who's the good familiar? You are! You are!"

After about a day of getting these treats from you they are bonded forever.


Though to be honest, if I ever DM a game I'll houserule that wizards and sorcerers don't lose XP from slain familiars and the ritual to replace them requires a trip to the pet store and a payment of about 8 cp which can be taken at any time.

Seriously, druids can use their familiars as a diversion by setting them on fire and then just sit in the woods and brainwash some other woodland creature into being their minion the very next day... without paying a single copper piece or losing XP.

I think the xp-loss decision is made more for RP than for balance. The idea is that familiars are an extension of the wizard/sorcerer. Some of their soul is transfered to the familiar. That's why it has intelligence.

Druid and Ranger's animal companions are pretty much just pets. And a Druid that purposely gets his animal companion killed in a suicide mission pretty much loses his powers (if the DM knows what he's doing).