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Duke of URL
2008-04-24, 11:22 AM
GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE XII: IN-CORE-ELIGIBLE

I didn't spend $300 on splatbooks to be stuck using core rules!

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WotC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each) Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

"In-Core-Eligible" Specific Rules
Entries may be submitted and edited up until noon PST on Thursday, May 1, 2008.
Challenge Goal: Design the best build possible that uses NO race, class, prestige class, feat, spell, or power found in "Core" (PHB/DMG/MM) or the SRD.
No variant of a banned class or prestige class is allowed, even if it is from a different source (e.g., non-spellcasting Ranger from the Complete series still wouldn't be acceptable)
Likewise, no subrace of a banned race is allowed.
A feat that is otherwise banned is allowed only if it is a non-optional class feature of a class or prestige class (e.g., Marshal gets Skill Focus: Diplomacy, and that is allowed, but Incantatrix cannot take Quicken Spell with a bonus metamgaic feat)
Please try to follow the format of the example (but also a legit entry) in the next post



Previous Challenges
Melee Masters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3873051)
Great Gishes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71548)
The Urge To Theurge (http://www.giantitp.cof/forums/showthread.php?t=72444)
Army Of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73021)
Invocation Vocation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73539)
Double Dippers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74253)
Home On The Range(d) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74764)
Vulnerable Villains (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75327)
Riders On The Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75928)
Magnificent Monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76609)
Skill-Monkey Business

Duke of URL
2008-04-24, 11:24 AM
Name:
Build:
Starting Ability Scores: STR x, DEX x, CON x, INT x, WIS x, CHA x
Cheese Points:
Minimum Playable Level:
Power Break:



Offense

Defense

Weaknesses

Eldariel
2008-04-24, 11:42 AM
Alright, here's an entry for real:

Sylph Artificer 20 // +5 LA/4 HD/Cannith Wand Adept 3/Heir of Siberys 3/Geometer 2/Fatespinner 3

Squash Monster
2008-04-24, 11:47 AM
I love banning core. It seems every little broken thing we do depends on it at some point. Even DMM: Persist gets destroyed, as it requires Extend Spell and you can't get that.

A few questions before we start though:

Core mundane items: are these banned? Do we need to go equip our characters with oddball weapons from all over the place?

Magic items: are magic items that require core spells to make banned? Are core magic items banned in general? Both? Either?

Monsters: are core monsters banned? This is for the purposes of summons and wild-shape like abilities.

Spells: are spells based on core spells banned? For example, Draconic Polymorph reads "As Polymorph, except as follows:" (recommend yes.)

Archivist: can the archivist get Cleric, Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells that are from non-core sources, or can they only get non-core spells available to non-core classes?

Duke of URL
2008-04-24, 11:47 AM
Tieflings are in core, so a Lesser Tiefling would violate the spirit of the challenge.

Since the choice of domain is optional, I'll say no-go there, too.

Vortling
2008-04-24, 12:14 PM
So we should use this (http://www.d20srd.org/) to determine core or not core?

Squash Monster
2008-04-24, 12:17 PM
Duke: I think I ninja'd you with my questions, so I don't know if you saw them. Can I get rulings on those?

Duke of URL
2008-04-24, 12:18 PM
I love banning core. It seems every little broken thing we do depends on it at some point. Even DMM: Persist gets destroyed, as it requires Extend Spell and you can't get that.

I fully expect this one to be a challenge.


Core mundane items: are these banned? Do we need to go equip our characters with oddball weapons from all over the place?

I'll say no -- classes that depend on a spellbook, spell component pouch, or holy symbol would be completely screwed. Though now that I think about it... (nah.)


Magic items: are magic items that require core spells to make banned? Are core magic items banned in general? Both? Either?

Good question. I'll go with both.


Monsters: are core monsters banned? This is for the purposes of summons and wild-shape like abilities.

That would also fit the spirit.


Spells: are spells based on core spells banned? For example, Draconic Polymorph reads "As Polymorph, except as follows:" (recommend yes.)

That would also fit the spirit.


Archivist: can the archivist get Cleric, Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells that are from non-core sources, or can they only get non-core spells available to non-core classes?

I'll say yes on this one, but it's a gray area, and the voters can take it into account if they like. Edit: That is, yes, they can get those non-core spells, even if they're for core classes.


So we should use this (http://www.d20srd.org/) to determine core or not core?

That plus any Product Identity material in PHB/DMG/MM1.

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-24, 12:19 PM
Would psionics be considered core?

Duke of URL
2008-04-24, 12:24 PM
Would psionics be considered core?

Psionics are in the SRD. You are free to use material from Complete Psionic or the Expanded Psionic Handbook, for example, as long as it isn't in or depends on material in the SRD.

Squash Monster
2008-04-24, 12:25 PM
I'll say yes on this one, but it's a gray area, and the voters can take it into account if they like.Wait, you just answered yes to an either-or question. Could you clarify that for us?

Duke of URL
2008-04-24, 12:27 PM
Wait, you just answered yes to an either-or question. Could you clarify that for us?

Sorry... I was agreeing with the first premise, not the alternative. I'll edit the above to clarify.

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-24, 12:32 PM
So Githyanki yes, psion no?

SamTheCleric
2008-04-24, 12:34 PM
So Githyanki yes, psion no?

Githyanki are Monster Manual 1. :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2008-04-24, 01:41 PM
I suppose I'll make it a Warforged or something with LA then. This just got interesting.

Squash Monster
2008-04-24, 02:00 PM
"Name": Xanthu the Enlightener

The Idea: Xanthu the Enlightener is a Librarian/paladin on a quirky but well-intentioned and harmless crusade to promote the wholesomeness of ooks and to enforce the rules of the library.

Race: Illumian (Aeshkrau)

Base Stats:
STR: 14
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 10
INT: 16
CHA: 10
Put all your bonuses into int

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD
1 | Crusader | Archivist | 1 | d10
2 | Crusader | Archivist | 2 | d10
3 | Crusader | Archivist | 3 | d10
4 | Crusader | Archivist | 4 | d10
5 | Crusader | Archivist | 5 | d10
6 | Crusader | Archivist | 6/1 | d10
7 | Crusader | Archivist | 7/2 | d10
8 | Crusader | Archivist | 8/3 | d10
9 | Crusader | Archivist | 9/4 | d10
10 | Crusader | Archivist | 10/5 | d10
11 | Crusader | Archivist | 11/6 | d10
12 | Crusader | Archivist | 12/7 | d10
13 | Crusader | Archivist | 13/8 | d10
14 | Crusader | Archivist | 14/9 | d10
15 | Crusader | Archivist | 15/10/5 | d10
16 | Crusader | Archivist | 16/11/6/1 | d10
17 | Crusader | Archivist | 17/12/5/2 | d10
18 | Crusader | Archivist | 18/13/6/3 | d10
19 | Crusader | Archivist | 19/14/7/4 | d10
20 | Crusader | Archivist | 20/15/10/5 | d10
[/table]

Expected HP:
20d10 + 40 = 150

Casts as:
20th level Archivist

Feats:
1st: Extra Granted Maneuver
3rd: Knowledge Devotion
6th: Adaptive Style
9th: Insightful Reflexes
10th Archivist: Reach Spell
12th: Minor Shapeshift
15th: Draconic Archivist
18th: Archivist of Nature
20th Archivist: Persistent Spell

Strengths:
Full casting, probably the second best list in the ruleset (short of Artificer)
Full BAB
Lots of HP
Great defensive maneuvers
Knows Vigor and the Devoted Spirit healing maneuvers

Weaknesses:
While there are lots of buffs, there are no turbobuffs like Righteous Might

Playability:
From level one, really

Tokiko Mima
2008-04-24, 02:25 PM
Name: "Morphic Knight"
Build: Changling Crusader 4/ Warshaper 4/ Chameleon 10// Factotum 1/Spirit Shaman 5/ Knight of the Raven 9/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7
Starting Ability Scores: STR 10+4 (14), DEX 12, CON 10+4 (14), INT 12, WIS 15+4 (19), CHA 15+1 (16)
Cheese Points: 1,000,016 (RKV + PrC's x 14 + dip + multiclass)
Minimum Playable Level: ECL 1
Power Break: ECL 12

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | BAB | Feats | Class Features
1 | Crusader | Factotum | +1 | Able Learner | furious counterstrike 5, steely resolve, inspiration(2), cunning insight, cunning knowledge, trapfinding
2 | Crusader | Spirit Shaman | +2 | | indomitable soul, spirit guide, wild empathy, spellcasting
3 | Crusader | Spirit Shaman | +3 | Extra Granted Manuever | zealous surge, chastise spirits
4 | Crusader | Spirit Shaman | +4 | | steely resolve 10, detect spirits
5 | Warshaper | Knight of the Raven | +5 | | morphic immunities, morphic weapons, raven harrier(harry), speak with ravens
6 | Chameleon | Knight of the Raven | +6 | Evasive Reflexes | aptitude focus 1/day (+2), smite undead 1/day
7 | Chameleon | Knight of the Raven | +7 | | BONUS FEAT, turn undead, sun domain, raven harrier(baffle)
8 | Spirit Shaman | Ruby Knight Vindicator | +8 | | blessing of the spirits
9 | Chameleon | Ruby Knight Vindicator | +9 | Devoted Bulwark | mimic class features 1/day, divine recovery
10 | Chameleon | Ruby Knight Vindicator | +10 | | ability boon +2
11 | Chameleon | Ruby Knight Vindicator | +11 | | aptitude focus 2/day (+4)
12 | Chameleon | Ruby Knight Vindicator | +12 | Robilar's Gambit | mimic class feature 2/day, armored stealth
13 | Spirit Shaman | Ruby Knight Vindicator | +13 | | follow the guide
14 | Chameleon | Ruby Knight Vindicator | +14 | | ability boon +4, double aptitude, divine impetus
15 | Chameleon | Knight of the Raven | +15 | Faith Unswerving | rapid refocus, light focus, smite undead 2/day
16 | Chameleon | Knight of the Raven | +16 | Enduring Life | mimic class feature 3/day, raven harrier(falter)
17 | Chameleon | Knight of the Raven | +17 | | ability boon +6, aptitude focus 3/day (+4), smite undead 3/day
18 | Warshaper | Knight of the Raven | +18 | Martial Study | morphic body, raven harrier(channel spell)
19 | Warshaper | Knight of the Raven | +19 | Lasting Life | morphic reach, smite undead 4/day
20 | Warshaper | Knight of the Raven | +20 | | morphic healing, raven harrier(sight link)
[/table]

Offense: Full BAB, heavy armor/shields + simple and martial weapons, 4 stances, and 6 readied manuevers refresh automatically every 3 rounds. Reach is 5 feet longer than it appears, meaning that foes will often set off AoO's unitentionally. Revolving bonus feat grants access to almost any kind of feat needed for a given situation. 18th level Spirit Shaman spellcasting from the Druid list (can rechoose spells known every day), with access to any 5th level or lower arcane spell and any 6th level divine spell whatsoever at caster level 20. Raven harrier grants instant battlefield control, especially against a single or smaller number of foes. Able to select from a wide pool of skills, thanks to the Able Learner + Factotum combination. Taking even a small amount of damage triggers furious counterstrike next round and will be healed within seconds. Even if reduced below 0 hp, this build gets a free attack and a 5 foot step before collapsing. Can spend turn undead attempts to gain more swift actions. Ability boon increases a single ability score by +6 for the day. Epic Spellcasting ready!

Defense: Immune to all critical, sneak or stunning attacks. Fast healing 2, along with the ability to ignore negative level penalties for several minutes and to remove them completely with a single round of effort. Evasive reflexes allows a 5 foot step whenever the PC would get an AoO, and Robilar's Gambit provokes an AoO after any attack meaning that getting more than one attack off is nigh impossible except for those with tremendous large reach. Constitution strengthed by morphic body. Can easily escape by transforming into the likeness of someone else in a crowd. With a round of concentration, this build can heal itself of 12 points of damage without expending any daily resources. Strong Fortitude and Will saves.

Weaknesses: No special defense or healing against ability damage: restoration or magic items needed to cover. Can still be dazed. AC needs to be buffed. Switching to Chameleon arcane spells presents risk of ASF. Needs magic items to increase intelligence to use arcane spells. Technically, this build suffers from multiclass XP penalties becaue of it's lone factotum level. Spirit Shaman means losts of MAD because it uses wisdom to qualify for spell levels and bonus spells and Charisma for save DCs. Weak Reflex saves except when using stealth aptitude focus.

Eldariel
2008-04-24, 04:11 PM
What about things that grant benefits of certain feat without actually giving you the feat? For example, Totem Avatar bound to Arm Chakra grants Improved Grapple-benefits, but not the feat. How're such?

Chronos
2008-04-24, 05:44 PM
Is the Unarmed Swordsage (which gets Improved Unarmed Strike) OK? The variant doesn't get a choice about gaining IUS, but there is the choice to not take the variant in the first place.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-24, 07:01 PM
Name:Klik Pow[/b]
Build Warforged Swordsage15/Master of Nine 5//Warlock20
Initial Stats Str:8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int: 10, Wis 14, Cha: 16
Cheeze Points 0
Minimum Playable Level 1st

Feats:
Mithral Body
Snap Kick
Superior Unarmed Strike
Eldrich Glaive
Adaptive Style
Shadow Blade

{table="head"]Lvl | BAB | Class1 | Class2 | Abilities gained | Invocation | Maneuvers
1 | 0 | Swordsage 1 | Warlock 1 | Discipline Focus (Shadow Hand), Quick to Act +1 | Hedious Blow | [/table]

Invocations Known:

Least
Hedious Blow
Dark One's Own Luck
Entropic Warding

Lesser
Fell Flight
Chain Blast
Flee The Scene

Greater
Vitriolic Blast
Devour Magic
Enervating Shadow

Dark
Dark Foresight
Utterdark Blast
Eldrich Doom


Concept Klik Pow was created to display the greatest martial arts yet devised: Click-Pow Martial Arts. His abilities include striking hard from range, to utterly tearing his opponents apart in melee.

He can perform a wide variety of Anime/Wire Fu/Wuxai abilities. Chi Blasts (Eldrich Blast), making impossible jumps and resting on impossibly frail substances such as bamboo leaves and water (Fell Flight), tossing opponents impossibly huge (Setting Sun), moving as silently as a shadow (Shadow Hand), perform stupidly complex martial arts maneuvers (Diamond Mind), and crushing opponents with a single strike (Mountain Tombstone Strike). He can even cause blows which can fell even the strongest opponents (Hedious Blow + Eldrich Glaive + Strike of Perfect Clarity).

Combos
What would any martial artist be without combos? Here's some particularly vicious ones:

Saotome School Chestnuts Roasting Over An Open Fire Technique - This is actually a two-round combo. On the first round, he closes with Pouncing Charge Strike, boosting with Raging Mongoose to add four attacks for a total of 8 attacks (3 from BAB progression, 2 per fist, +1 for Circle Kick). On round two, however, he initiates Time Stands Still and boosts with another Raging Mongoose for a total of 16 hits.

Six-Inch Punch
The infamous Bruce Lee Six Inch Punh, which can fell a powerful opponent in one hit. Eldrich Glaive +

monty
2008-04-24, 08:19 PM
Can we use a race that gets core spells as SLAs? You say we can use a core feat if it's a "non-optional class feature" but you don't say anything about non-feat features or racial abilities.

dspeyer
2008-04-25, 01:23 AM
Probably an Omen of Doom, but So What?
Race: five-headed faerie dragon
Build: rhd 16 / swashbuckler 4 // la 6 / favored soul of bahumat 14
Initial Stats: STR: 10 DEX: 22 CON: 22 INT: 18 WIS: 20 CHA: 20
Cheese: 0
Minimum playable: 16, though the character makes perfect sense earlier, without all the RHD
Power break: 19, insightful strike
Feats: everything to boost a breath weapon. None of it's core, and the high con gives a good starting save dc.
Equipment: foo of lion's charge (defend a wilderness and get a druid to make it as payment)

Melee: Multiple heads mean Improved Multiattack. A full attack begins with five bites at full BaB (plus wf and ws from fs), then 2 claw and 2 wing and BaB-2, and then the whole thing again at -5. Full BaB (rhd, swashbuckler) plus weapon finesse and high dex makes the attacks hit. Then they all get full insightful strike for damage. D12 hd and high con grant staying power (8 Nat Armor helps a bit too).

Magic: Favoured soul uses the cleric list. Plenty of powerful noncore options there.

Scout/skill-monkey: Dragon RHD are 6+int, and it's a high int. Perfect flight, water breathing and multiheaded perception bonuses and blindsense help with the scouting side of things.

Notes: All those heads are probably suboptimal, since each requires another 2 rhd which could otherwise be a martial class with more abilities, but when I realized I could do that, I had to.

Duke of URL
2008-04-25, 06:24 AM
What about things that grant benefits of certain feat without actually giving you the feat? For example, Totem Avatar bound to Arm Chakra grants Improved Grapple-benefits, but not the feat. How're such?


Is the Unarmed Swordsage (which gets Improved Unarmed Strike) OK? The variant doesn't get a choice about gaining IUS, but there is the choice to not take the variant in the first place.

Both of the above are gray areas. It's your job to convince the voters that you're legit if you go that route.


Can we use a race that gets core spells as SLAs? You say we can use a core feat if it's a "non-optional class feature" but you don't say anything about non-feat features or racial abilities.

I would think so, yes.

monty
2008-04-25, 08:45 AM
Good to know. Also, are we entirely restricted to "official" non-core books or is all Open Gaming Licence stuff fair game as well?

Squash Monster
2008-04-25, 08:51 AM
Good to know. Also, are we entirely restricted to "official" non-core books or is all Open Gaming Licence stuff fair game as well?The first of the general rules says only WotC 3.5 D&D. So that'd be a no.

Chronos
2008-04-25, 10:40 AM
I think I've got something worked out, but I need to figure out a race. I want something with as many as possible of the following:
Natural attacks other than claws and bite
Positive adjustments to any or all ability scores
LA + RHD of no more than 2, and preferably less (unless it has full BAB, in which case I want LA no more than 2, and LA + RHD no more than 6)
And, of course, eligible for this contest.

Any advice?

EDIT: Here goes, though I'm still going to work on it a bit more.


The Soulcharger
Build: Feral Gargun (RoS) Binder (ToM) 20//RHD 2/LA1/Unarmed swordsage (ToB) 10/Totemist (MoI) 2/Scout 1/Warblade (ToB) 2/swordsage +2
Starting scores: Str 20, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 8
Cheese Points: 2 (Scout dip, ignoring multiclass penalties)
Minimum Playable Level: 3
Power Break: 10 (binding Chupoclops)

{table=head]ECL | class 1 | class 2 | Feats | BAB | Special
1 | Binder 1 | RHD 1 | Cobalt charge (MoI) | 1 | 1 vestige, Powerful Build
2 | Binder 2 | RHD 2 | | 2 | Pact augmentation 1, suppress sign
3 | Binder 3 | LA 1 | Powerful Charge (Miniatures) | 2 |
4 | Binder 4 | Swordsage 1 | Improved Binding (ToM), Improved Unarmed StrikeB | 3 | Quick to Act 1, Discipline Focus (weapon focus)
5 | Binder 5 | Swordsage 2 | | 4 | Pact augmentation 2, AC bonus
6 | Binder 6 | Swordsage 3 | Greater Powerful Charge (Miniatures) | 5 | Soul guardian (immune to fear)
7 | Binder 7 | Swordsage 4 | | 5 |Discipline Focus (insightful strike)
8 | Binder 8 | Swordsage 5 | | 6 |2 vestiges, Quick to Act 2
9 | Binder 9 | Swordsage 6 | Snap Kick (ToB) | 7 | Soul guardian (slippery mind)
10 | Binder 10 | Swordsage 7 | | 8 | Pact augmentation 3, Sense Magic
11 | Binder 11 | Swordsage 8 | Ignore Special Requirements (ToM) | 8 | Discipline Focus (defensive stance)
12 | Binder 12 | Swordsage 9 | Neraph Charge (Planar) | 9 | Evasion
13 | Binder 13 | Swordsage 10 | | 10 | Soul guardian (energy drain), Quick to Act 3
14 | Binder 14 | Totemist 1 | | 11 | 3 vestiges, wild empathy, 2 soulmelds
15 | Binder 15 | Totemist 2 | Indigo Strike (MoI) | 11 | 3 soulmelds, Totem chakra bind
16 | Binder 16 | Scout 1 | | 12 | Pact augmentation 4, skirmish 1d6, trapfinding
17 | Binder 17 | Warblade 1 | | 13 | Battle clarity, Weapon Aptitude
18 | Binder 18 | Warblade 2 | Shadow Blade (ToB), Empower Supernatural Ability (ToM) | 14 | Uncanny Dodge
19 | Binder 19 | Swordsage 11 | | 15 | Soul guardian (mind blank)
20 | Binder 20 | Swordsage 12 | | 16 | Pact augmentation 5, 4 vestiges, discipline focus (insightful strike)[/table]
Swordsage maneuvers/stances (not exhaustive):
Blood in the Water
Cloak of Deception
Assassin's Stance
Searing Blade
Dancing Mongoose
Raging Mongoose
Inferno Blade
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip

Warblade maneuvers/stances (not exhaustive):
Iron Heart Surge
Bonesplitting Strike

Soul Charger is an übercharger without Power Attack. Whenever he thinks charging will be necessary, he starts the day by binding Amon, Chupoclops, Andromalius, and Malphas, shapes Girallon Arms and two other soulmelds, binds his Girallon Arms to his totem chakra, invests all four of his essentia points into his Indigo Strike, and assumes the Assassin's Stance. This gives him a full attack of 5 unarmed strikes (4 from BAB 16 and 1 from Snap Kick), followed by secondary attacks from each of his six natural weapons (horns from Amon, bite from Chupoclops, and four claws from Girallon Arms). He also gains Pounce, Aura of Despair, and Ghost Touch from Chupoclops, 6d6 Sudden Strike, invisibility as a swift action once every 5 rounds, and poison use from Malphas, 2d6 Sneak Attack and See Invisibility from Andromalius, another 2d6 Sneak Attack from Assassin's Stance, +8 damage to any sneak attack from Indigo Strike, +2d6 damage to any charging attack from Greater Powerful Charge, 1d6 damage whenever he moves 10 feet (such as on a charge) and dex to damage on all unarmed strikes.

Assuming all attacks land on a pouncing charge, that's a total of 13d6+8 damage to every attack, and he has 11 of them. In addition, he gets 5*(2d6+str+dex) (unarmed strikes) + 4*(1d4+str/2) (claws) + (1d4+str/2) (bite) + (1d6+1d8+str/2) (horns) from base damage, for a total damage of 143d6+5d4+1d8+88+8*str+5*dex, or an average of 715 damage, before items or boosts are considered. The Raging Mongoose boost would add two more attacks each with his unarmed strike and horns, for a total charge damage of 986 damage on a charge. Alternately, Inferno Blade would add 3d6+16 damage to each attack, and Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip would add 20d6 to the full attack, so he has several options available to him before he runs out of boosts to apply. He can guarantee that his attacks qualify for Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike by going first (he has +16 to initiative), turning invisible using Malphas's ability or the Cloak of Deception boost, or if facing things that can see invisibility, by using Neraph's Charge. Further, unlike most uberchargers, most of his extra damage applies to regular full attacks, too, so he can keep on fighting if anything manages to close with him.

The abilities granted by vestiges are always considered supernatural abilities, even if they mimic extraordinary abilities. Therefore, the Empower Supernatural Ability feat can be applied to the Sudden Strike gained from Malphas, giving Soul Charger yet another 3d6 points of damage per attack for one round per day. If retraining is allowed, at 17th level, Soulcharger retrains his Improved Binding feat (which no longer provides any benefit) to another instance of Empower Supernatural Ability, so as to be able to use it twice per day.

If he finds himself in a situation where charging isn't the answer, his standard vestiges also give him a 210 foot breath weapon for 21d6 fire damage or Hideous Laughter on one target (each usable once every 5 rounds), and a bird spy that can be used to scout. Alternately, if he doesn't anticipate the need to do thousands of damage at the start of the day, he can swap out one or more of his standard charging vestiges for such utilitarian vestiges as Buer (unlimited healing), Acercerak (immunity to cold and lightning, and paralyzing touch), Balam (reroll once every 5 rounds and an additional +5 to initiative), Dantalion (mind reading and short-range teleports), or Orthos (breath weapon to do 20d6 in a 60' cone and knock targets prone). Likewise, he can switch his soulmelds each day, and even when decked out for full damage, still has his choice of his other two soulmelds.

Items: If it's allowed for this competition, an Amulet of Mighty Fists would be ideal for Soulcharger. It costs three times as much as a standard weapon enhancement, but it affects all natural weapons, and Soulcharger has seven of them. He's also very MAD (Strength for damage and attack, Dex also for damage through Shadow Blade and for AC, Con for HP and also for some Binder and Totemist abilities, Wis for AC and other Swordsage abilities, and Charisma for binding checks and some other binder abilities), so a Belt of Magnificence would also be worth the investment (again, if allowed).

Weakness: In addition to the afore-mentioned MAD, he also can't change his tactics much on the fly. His vestiges and soulmelds need to be prepared at the beginning of the day, so if he chooses poorly, there's not much he can do about it in the short term.

Almost all of Soulcharger's abilities are supernatural, and therefore do not function in an antimagic field (in contrast to a tradition, core-allowed charger).

Note: The build can work without Improved Unarmed Strike, using armor spikes instead for the primary attack (and replacing Snap Kick and Shadow Blade with other feats). I chose to use the unarmed swordsage variant anyway, because I think that using armor spikes as a primary weapon is dorky.

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-25, 11:09 PM
Deadnest, Lord of the Grey Aerie
Lich (Kenku) Spellthief / Dread Necromancer
Base Stats: Str 16, Dex 8, Con 8, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 18
Kenku Racial: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 8, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 18
Lich Racial: Str 14, Dex 10, Con -, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 20
Level: Str 16, Cha 23
Dread Necromancer: Str 20, Dex 14
Enervating Arm: Str 24
Possession: Cha 27

BAB 15, Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +12, 6+int skills, 20 D12 HD +120

The Grey Aerie:

Unhallowed:
Airship: Colossal vehicle; Airworthiness +6;
Ship handling -4; Speed Fly 100 Ft. poor, Overall Ac -3;
Hull sections 1,000 (crash 250); section hp 60 (hardness 5)
section AC 3; Ram 12d6; SA Fire ring;
SQ resistance to fire 10, hover; space 90 by 300 ft
Height 50 feet (fire ring 110 diameter)
Watch 20; Complement 150; Cargo 30 tons

With:
Living Figurehead: Red Dragon (Breath Weapon, Fire Immunity)
Planar Helm: (Planar Navigation 2xday)
Three Necromatic Self Loading Light Trebuchet
10d6 damage, x2 crit animates zombies on impact, Range Increment 125 feet, max range 1,250 feet


Crew of the Grey Aerie:

Deadnest can control 400 HD of created undead.
Deadnest can control 320 HD of controlled undead.
Deadnest can command (rebuke) 20 HD Undead.
If possible Deadnest will obtain mainly kenku based undead.
As an intelligent undead Deadnest is not attacked by mindless undead.
One Encysted 6 HD fiend possessing (ally) Deadnest
One Encysted fire elemental controlling the ship.
One Encysted 18 HD celestial channeling Deadnest.


Deadnest and Contest Rules:

Deadnest uses spells that are part of the core rules and are found in core books. These spells however are non-optional class features. The Dread Necromancer is a spontaneous caster with a set list of spells known. They cannot choose to not know any of the spells on that list. If Deadnest was only dipping in Dread Necromancer I would consider taking cheese points for getting access to otherwise prohibited spells in this way. Deadnest has twenty levels of dread necromancer. At 20th level Deadnest gains the lich template, this is also a non-optional class feature. All optional class features, such as advanced learning use non-core options.

Deadnest also has Mother Cyst which gives him access to a variety of spells, some that function similarly to dominate. The requirement to first place a necrotic cyst in the target, and that necrotic tumor is far more powerful make it seem like enough of a different spell.

Deadnest can gain access to additional spells through Steal Spell from his undead minions. These spells are not part of his build, but rather spells he can access later.

Deadnest owns and runs an airship. Standard airships are detailed in the Explorer's Handbook. Explorer's Handbook mentions that a dominate monster spell is capable of controlling the bound elemental in an airship. Deadnest does not have dominate monster, but has encysted the bound fire elemental. The elemental type counts as a living creature and thus can be effected by the Mother Cyst spell line.

Deadnest uses the Haunting Presences (LM), Undead Density (LM), and Psionic Transparency Spellthief (CAdv) variant rules. Deadnest's Airship "The Grey Aerie" has had overtime 1,000 HD of undead converted into Haunting Presences increasing the overall turn resistance of all undead on the airship by +4

Deadnest can cast planar binding (Mandatory class feature) to summon a fiend with the possession ability. Deadnest can then encyst the fiend. While dominated Deadnest can have the fiend possess him as an ally giving him a +4 profane bonus to charisma. Possession rules can be found in the ECS.



Lich Kenku

-2 Str, +2 dex, +2 int, +2 wis, +2 Cha
30 feet
Great Ally (Ex): Kenku give and receive +3 on aide other checks and get +4 from flanking.
Mimicry (Ex): A Kenku can mimic a specific individuals voice with an opposed Bluff vs the listeners sense motive
2 Claws (1d3) Count as Magic Weapons
+5 Natural Armor bonus
Fear Aura
Paralyzing Touch
+4 Turn resistance
Damage Reduction 15/Bludgeoning and Magic
Immunity to Cold, Electricity, Polymorph and Mind Effecting Spells
+8 Hide, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive and Spot
Undead
Philactary




{table=head]ECL | class 1 | class 2 | Feats | Special
1 | Spellthief 1 | DreadNec 1 |Mother Cyst | Charnel Touch, Rebuke Undead, Trapfinding
2 | Spellthief 2 | DreadNec 2 | | Detect Magic, Steal Spell Effect
3 | Spellthief 3 | DreadNec 3 | Fell Animate |
4 | Spellthief 4 | DreadNec 4 | | Advanced Learning
5 | Spellthief 5 | DreadNec 5 | | Fear Aura, Steal Spell-like ability
6 | Spellthief 6 | DreadNec 6 | Corpse Crafter |
7 | Spellthief 7 | DreadNec 7 | | Summon Familiar, Absorb Spell
8 | Spellthief 8 | DreadNec 8 | | Advanced Learning, Undead Mastery
9 | Spellthief 9 | DreadNec 9 | Chain Spell | NE Resistance, Arcane Sight
10 | Spellthief 10 | DreadNec 10 | |
11 | Spellthief 11 | DreadNec 11 | |
12 | Spellthief 12 | DreadNec 12 | Arcane Thesis: Cloudkill | AL: Haunt Shift, Enervating Touch
13 | Spellthief 13 | DreadNec 13 | | Discover Spells
14 | Spellthief 14 | DreadNec 14| | Mental Bastion +4
15 | Spellthief 15 | DreadNec 15 | Improved Energy Drain | Steal Spell Resistance, DR 8
16 | Spellthief 16 | DreadNec 16| | AL: Energy Ebb, Scabrous Touch 3/day
17 | Spellthief 17 | DreadNec 17| | Heavy Fortification, SA +5d6
18 | Spellthief 18 | DreadNec 18| Spell Drain |Steal Spell 9th, NE Burst 4/day
19 | Spellthief 19 | DreadNec 19 | | Craft wondrous Item, Steal Energy Resistance 30
20 | Spellthief 20 | DreadNec 20 | | AL: Field of Ghouls, Lich Transformation, 9th level spells, Spellgrace +3, Absorb Spell (Immediate Casting), 4th Level Spells[/table]

Deadnest Tactics


Celestial Spell Harvesting
Deadnest can summon celestials with planar binding. After summoning a celestial he can encyst and then necrotic tumor them. If they fail their save on necrotic tumor they are effectively constantly dominated without any re-roll for actions which violate their alignment. Deadnest can then use his steal spell abilities to gain access to either their prepared spells or their spell like abilities. If he wants to have access to multiple spell-like abilities he can force the celestial to channel into him, giving him access to all their spell-like and supernatural abilities.

Body Harvesting
Deadnest can harvest new undead through his spells or through his siege weapons. He has nearly every undead creation spell in existance, and many of the higher level ones don't require material components. If he wants to create multiple zombie template creatures without spending gold he will use a Fell Animating Cloudkill. For harvesting undead through siege weapons, see sieging.

Sieging:
Deadnest has three light self-loading siege weapons. He usually gets some of the ships many Haunting presences to act as animate objects to assist in loading and preparing the siege weapons. The siege weapons do 10d6 damage killing most non-heroes and doing enough damage to beat most object, building and ship hardnesses. His three siege weapons apply the necromantic property to their ammunition, animating as Zombies for ten rounds all corpses nearby.

Ship to Ship Combat

If Deadnest keeps the ship at range all three siege weapons can be used in ship to ship combat. If another ship gets too close the red dragon figurehead can use its breath weapon. The ship is also immune to fire. Deadnest will attempt to use his spells to disable enemy crew and move his ship closer so all of his undead can perform boarding actions. If the two ships are close enough haunting presences will begin animating parts of the enemy ship.

Personal Combat

Combat with Deadnest is almost never personal. He usually has a wide variety of minions assisting him, often with aide other attempts. Each aide other attempt gives Deadnest a +3 bonus on attack rolls, and he receives a +4 bonus from flanking. With this many minions (including incorporeal ones) always assume that Deadnest's target is being flanked.

This allows Deadnest to sneak attack. He always gives up some of his sneak attack damage to use his Spellthief abilities. When possible he uses a level draining spell. One of his favorites is a sneak attacked spell stealing chain spelled enervation. In addition to his initial target 20 other targets within 30 feet are effected. If there are not enough enemies Deadnest will let the enervation target his undead allies healing them.

Whenever Deadnest level drains someone he gains a +1 untyped bonus on skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls and saves for 1 hour. If a spellcaster looses a prepared spell due to level loss from Deadnest's ability drain Deadnest gains the ability to cast that spell once within the next hour. He can hold a number of spells equal to his charisma modifier. Deadnest also uses his chosen spellthief ability on the target.

For a level seven spell slot Deadnest has the chance of gaining a +21 untyped bonus to all skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls and saves for one hour, eight different spells, and a spellthief stolen spell.

If most of the battlefield is dying Deadnest will cast a chained Death Knell, giving him +1 caster level per person killed. (Up to possibly +21 caster level in one round)

Talic
2008-04-25, 11:48 PM
Question: Silverbrow Human (From Dragon Magic), as well as Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) are ineligible under the (Subraces) rule, no?

JaxGaret
2008-04-26, 01:41 AM
This is my first Gestalt Build Challenge entry! Yay!

It's probably not going to be close to the strongest combination (I'm guessing that something similar to an Archivist//Artificer build will still be tops, even without any core spell access), but I'm going to see how a Sha'ir//Spirit Shaman build does as a caster with an incredibly flexible spell list from day to day, since the core-banned proposition cuts down on a lot of options, making the character need to be a bit more clever with spell selection/application.

Also, AFAICT, the Sha'ir is the most viable option for an arcane spellcasting class in a core-banned environment.

Not sure on the specifics yet, fill in more later.

EDIT: Okay, here's my entry. I've been really busy the past few days, so I haven't had a chance to fully flesh it out. I wish I had, but alas.

Flexibeast, Traveler of the Shifting Moon Sands

Build: Saurian Shifter Spirit Shaman8/Moonspeaker12///Sha'ir 19/Sand Shaper 1

Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 8, CON 14 (+2 racial = 16), INT 14 (-2 racial = 12), WIS 8, CHA 18 (-2 racial = 16)

Cheese Points: None.

Minimum Playable Level: 1

Power Break: It's pretty even throughout, with a couple of jumps here and there.

Offense/Defense: Pretty much tailored to whatever Flexibeast thinks he'll be needing that day, with flexible casting on both sides plus item creation feats to enhance versatility, as well as wild shaping at higher levels.

Weaknesses: The usual spontaneous caster ones, but lessened due to the massive amount of flexibility afforded by the build.

{table=head]ECL | class 1 | class 2 | Feats | Special
1 | Spirit Shaman 1 | Sha'ir 1 | Dynamic Priest | Summon Fire Gen Familiar, Spirit Guide, Wild Empathy, Beasthide
2 | Spirit Shaman 2 | Sha'ir 2 | | Chastise Spirits
3 | Spirit Shaman 3 | Sha'ir 3 | Touchstone (City of the Dead) | Recognize Genie Works, Detect Spirits
4 | Spirit Shaman 4 | Sha'ir 4 | | Blessing of the Spirits
5 | Spirit Shaman 5 | Sha'ir 5 | | Elemental Protection, Follow The Guide
6 | Spirit Shaman 6 | Sand Shaper 1 | Craft Skull Talisman | Desert Insight, Dust Magic, Sand Shape, Ghost Warrior
7 | Spirit Shaman 7 | Sha'ir 6 | | Warding of the Spirits
8 | Spirit Shaman 8 | Sha'ir 7 | | Call Janni
9 | Moonspeaker 1 | Sha'ir 8 | Craft Scepter | Augment Summoning, Moonspeaker Shifting
10 | Moonspeaker 2 | Sha'ir 9 | | Elemental Travel (1/day), Energy Resist Acid 10
11 | Moonspeaker 3 | Sha'ir 10 | | Extended Summoning
12 | Moonspeaker 4 | Sha'ir 11 | Craft Contingent Spell | Call Genie, Thelanis Tie
13 | Moonspeaker 5 | Sha'ir 12 | | Craft Genie Prison, Wild Shape (as a Druid of his Moonspeaker level)
14 | Moonspeaker 6 | Sha'ir 13 | | Shifter Integration (ability bonus)
15 | Moonspeaker 7 | Sha'ir 14 | Spell Mantle | Elemental Travel (2/day), Energy Resist Sonic 10, Improved Natural Attack
16 | Moonspeaker 8 | Sha'ir 15 | | DR 2/silver
17 | Moonspeaker 9 | Sha'ir 16 | | Extra Shifter Trait
18 | Moonspeaker 10 | Sha'ir 17 | Create Portal | Immunity to Acid
19 | Moonspeaker 11 | Sha'ir 18 | | Elemental Travel (at will), Shifter Integration (Shifter Trait)
20 | Moonspeaker 12 | Sha'ir 19 | | Lammania Calling [/table]

Here's a little explanation of the Sha'ir's casting method:


* Summon gen- Sha' irs have a familiar much like a standard wizard does, although the sha' ir familiar performs a much more important role. Sha' irs summon a gen; a creature that resembles a miniature genie from one of the four core elements (earth, water, fire, wind). The gen's primary responsibility is fetching spells from the elemental planes and delivering the arcane energy to the sha' ir for casting. In many ways, this makes the gen a "living spellbook".

* Spell casting- Sha' irs cast spells by requesting that their gen go find them. A Sha' ir can request any arcane spell that they know or have seen the effects of, as well as a limited selection of divine spells. The gen then runs off to the elemental planes, finds the requested spell, and brings the spell back to be temporarily imparted into the sha'ir's memory. While this method does make for slower spell casting, as the gen may be gone for a long period of time in its search, sha 'irs enjoy greater utility in their casting, as they are often able to draw on a repertoire of spells dwarfing the selection of a standard wizard or sorcerer.

Sha'irs get one less spell slot per spell level than Sorcerers, and approximately 50% more spells known. The Sha'ir's spell list consists of the Sorc/Wiz list + all spells from the Air, Chaos, Earth, Fire, Knowledge, Law, Luck, Sun and Water domains.

It takes 1d4+spell level rounds for the gen to retrieve a known spell (The Sha'irs spell list is the Sorc/Wiz list + the domains listed above), 1d6+1 per spell level minutes to retrieve an unknown arcane spell that the Sha'ir has identified via Spellcraft, and 1d6+1 per spell level hours to retrieve any Divine spell off of the above listed domain's list.

Finally there is a DC20 Diplomacy check (Flexibeast will of course max out Diplomacy, and throw in a synergy or three) or the spell is not retrieved. The Sha'ir gets a +1 to this check per Sha'ir level, +2 if it's a known spell, -2 per level of the spell to be retrieved, -6 for a divine spell, -1 per level of increase due to metamagic, and -2 per failed attempts to retrieve that spell that day.

Elemental Protection is Energy Resistance 2 vs. Acid, Cold, Electricity 2, +2 to saves vs. spells that deal any damage of any of those types, DR 2 against attacks by creatures with the subtype of those, and ER4, DR4, and +4 on saves vs. Fire.

Call Janni and Call Genie work as Lesser Planar Ally (Janni) and Planar Ally (Dao or Marid), respectively.

Elemental Travel is Plane Shift to or from the Material Plane or any of the Elemental Planes.

Craft Genie Prison gives the Sha'ir access to the Craft Wondrous Item feat, except it can only be used to create Genie Prisons.

Note that Flexibeast gets Gate on his spell list due to Lammania Calling.

Those last two are the reason why Flexibeast can utilize the Create Portal feat.

In case anyone isn't familiar with it, Dynamic Priest makes Flexibeast Cha-dependent only for Spirit Shaman casting. The Sha'ir is also a Cha-dependent caster.

Duke of URL
2008-04-26, 08:03 AM
Question: Silverbrow Human (From Dragon Magic), as well as Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) are ineligible under the (Subraces) rule, no?

Exactly. It's intended to be very restrictive.

Talic
2008-04-26, 08:17 AM
Excellent. I like a challenge. Let's see. No feats that list power attack or weapon focus as a prereq. No "Easy" MM templates.

Let's rock. Expect to see my critter later on today. :smallamused:

Talic
2008-04-26, 10:21 AM
Touch of Darkness
Build: Spellscale (RotD) Mummified Creature (LibMort)/ Evolved Undead x16 // Warlock 20
Starting scores: Str 22, Dex 16, Con -, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 23
Stats at Lv 20: Str 54, Dex 16, Con -, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 59
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 4
Power Break: Level 6 (Fire Resist = Caster lvl), Level 9 (Lifesense), Level 15 (Eldritch Cone), Level 16 (Utterdark Blast), 18 (Dark Discorporation), 20 (Binding Blast)

{table=head]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feats | Special
1 | MC LA | War 1 | Improved Turn Resistance | Eldritch Blast 1d6, Eldritch Glaive (invocation)
2 | MC LA | War 2 | | Detect Magic at Will, Frightful Blast (Invocation)
3 | MC LA | War 3 | Positive Energy Resistance | DR 1/Cold Iron, Eldritch Blast 2d6
4 | MC LA | War 4 | | Deceive Item, Dark One's Own Luck (Invocation), (Nat Armor +10, Speed -10 ft, Slam 1d8+1.5 Str, Despair, Mummy Rot, DR 5/-, Vulnerable to Fire, Str +8, Con -, Int -4, Wis +4, Cha +4), Cha +1 (Level Boost)
5 | EU 1 | War 5 | | Eldritch Blast 3d6, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, See Invisibility 1/day
6 | EU 2 | War 6 | Improved Toughness | Ignore the Pyre (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Haste 1/day
7 | EU 3 | War 7 | | DR 2/Cold Iron, Eldritch Blast 4d6, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Haste 2/day
8 | EU 4 | War 8 | | Fiendish Resilience 1, Brimstone Blast (Invocation, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Haste 3/day, Cha +1 (Level Boost)
9 | EU 5 | War 9 | Lifesense | Eldritch Blast 5d6, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Haste 4/day
10 | EU 6 | War 10 | | Sonic Resistance 5, Electricity Resistance 5, Eldritch Chain (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Greater Invisibility 1/day
11 | EU 7 | War 11 | | DR 3/Cold Iron, Eldritch Blast 6d6, Repelling Blast (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Greater Invisibility 2/day
12 | EU 8 | War 12 | Extra Invocation (Voidsense) | Imbue Item, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Greater Invisibility 3/day, Cha +1 (Level Boost)
13 | EU 9 | War 13 | | Fiendish Resilience 2, Enervating Shadow (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Greater Invisibility 4/day
14 | EU 10 | War 14 | | Eldritch Blast 7d6, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Cloudkill 1/day
15 | EU 11 | War 15 | Extra Invocation (Fell Flight) | DR 4/Cold Iron, Eldritch Cone (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Hold Monster 1/day
16 | EU 12 | War 16 | | Utterdark Blast (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Hold Monster 2/day, Cha +1 (Level Boost)
17 | EU 13 | War 17 | | Eldritch Blast 8d6, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Hold Monster 3/day
18 | EU 14 | War 18 | Left Open | Fiendish Resilience 5, Dark Discorporation (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Hold Monster 4/day
19 | EU 15 | War 19 | | DR 5/Cold Iron, Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Hold Monster 5/day
20 | EU 16 | War 20 | | Eldritch Blast 9d6, Sonic Resistance 10, Electricity Resistance 10, Binding Blast (Invocation), Str +2, Cha +2, Natural Armor +1, Hold Monster 6/day, Cha +1 (Level Boost)[/table]

The Touch of Darkness was an ordinary spellscale Warlock, until he was mummified in a very strange and non-core manner. It emerged as a Neutral Evil machine of Doom. No, really. Choosing to eschew any warlock ability that replicated the spells of its weak core wizard brethren, it instead chose to specialize in all 3 types of Warlock invocations. At the same time, each time it learned more as a Warlock, its twisted undead body mutated, adding a measure of power (and an unavoidable core spell, sigh. Every spell option from the Evolved undead template is core, so I'm forced to get one). It left the ancient tomb it was buried in, shattering the door wide open, and began a quest across the trackless deserts. All things in its path died.

At level 4, it begins with Positive Energy Resistance 10, Turn Resistance +4, and a 24 hour bonus to one save=level (reflex until level 11, Fort from level 11 on.. it hates disintigrate). At level 6, it gains bonus HP = HD. Every level from 5-20 gives +2 Str, and +2 Cha. That Cha raises the DC of every warlock ability, and the Mummified Creature abilities.

DC is as follows:
Level 4: 16+ Spell Level (or +2, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 5: 17+ Spell Level (or +2, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 6: 18+ Spell Level (or +3, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 7: 19+ Spell Level (or +3, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 8: 21+ Spell Level (or +4, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 9: 22+ Spell Level (or +4, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 10: 23+ Spell Level (or +5, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 11: 24+ Spell Level (or +5, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 12: 25+ Spell Level (or +6, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 13: 26+ Spell Level (or +6, for Mummy Abilities)
Level 14: 27+ Spell Level (or +7, for Mummy Abilities) (+5 for Offensive SLAs)
Level 15: 28+ Spell Level (or +7, for Mummy Abilities) (+5 for Offensive SLAs)
Level 16: 30+ Spell Level (or +8, for Mummy Abilities) (+5 for Offensive SLAs)
Level 17: 31+ Spell Level (or +8, for Mummy Abilities) (+5 for Offensive SLAs)
Level 18: 32+ Spell Level (or +9, for Mummy Abilities) (+5 for Offensive SLAs)
Level 19: 33+ Spell Level (or +9, for Mummy Abilities) (+5 for Offensive SLAs)
Level 20: 34+ Spell Level (or +10, for Mummy Abilities) (+5 for Offensive SLAs)

Thus, at Level 20, anything that even SEES the mummy must make a DC 44 Will Save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds.

Anything he hits? DC 44 Fort or Mummy Rot.

When He Eldritch Cones a Binding Blast? Everything gets a DC 43 Reflex for half, and a DC 42 Will or Stun for a round.

Utterdark Blast? DC 42 Fort to remove the negative levels.

Offense: Very Powerful Abilities with High Save DC's. High Damage Melee Attacks with Hideous Blow (+36 to hit for 9d6+1d8+33 and added effect (2 neg levels, typically, or stun... Repelling blast is fun to add for the "super punch") at level 20). Strong status effect abilities.

Defense: High Nat Armor (+26 at level 20), Ability to Fast Heal, DR 5, starting at level 4. Also Boost to any one save = to ECL, 24 hour duration. Scrolls of Scintillating scales would be a must, to change the Nat armor to deflection. Good evasion/nondetection abilities, and very strong lockdown abilities. Ability to take swarm form for getaways.

Weaknesses: Low overall HP, Weakness to Fire (perhaps craft a misc item with the Comp Arcane Energy immunity spell?)

Tactics: Starting at level 16? when losing, Greater Invisibility, or similar ability, and utterdark blast attack himself for 9d6 healing. Repeat to full, and then re-enter with a chain or cone stunning blast.

Otherwise, channel/funnel enemies close together through hired minions/etc, then reveal self, and stun. If anything resists both status effects? Greater Invis/and lay on the neg levels. Liberal use of SLA's that it's got more than 2 of. Aggressive dealing with anything that resembles a caster.

Chronos
2008-04-26, 10:44 AM
Also, AFAICT, the Sha'ir is the most viable option for an arcane spellcasting class in a core-banned environment.I'm not familiar with that one... What do they get? I would have thought the Wu Jen would be the top arcanist left standing.



Weaknesses: Low overall HP, Weakness to Fire (perhaps craft a misc item with the Comp Arcane Energy immunity spell?)And just what item creation feat do you plan to use to craft it? :smallamused: I think the only way any of these characters can get any equipment at all is buying it from Artificers.

Oh, and it is possible to get feats that have Power Attack as a prereq. You just have to use Stone Power (ToB) to qualify for them. Unfortunately, most of the good non-core Power Attack feats only really work with the original Power Attack... Doubling your extra damage doesn't do much good when you don't get any extra damage in the first place.

Talic
2008-04-26, 10:48 AM
And just what item creation feat do you plan to use to craft it? :smallamused: I think the only way any of these characters can get any equipment at all is buying it from Artificers.


I knew there was a reason I left 2 spaces open. :smallbiggrin:

FlyMolo
2008-04-26, 11:06 AM
Touch of Darkness
Build: Spellscale (RotD) Mummified Creature (LibMort)/ Evolved Undead x16 // Warlock 20
Starting scores: Str 22, Dex 16, Con -, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 23
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 4
Power Break: Level 6 (movement increase), Level 9 (Lifesense), Level 15 (Eldritch Cone), Level 16 (Utterdark Blast), 18 (Dark Discorporation), 20 (Binding Blast)


If anything, your Strength and Charisma are too low. I don't understand how you get Str and Cha +2 every level for 16 levels and not get more than 32 of each...

It's a ridiculously good build, though. I predict a spate of builds that simply apply the same template 15-20 times.

JaxGaret
2008-04-26, 11:45 AM
I'm not familiar with that one... What do they get? I would have thought the Wu Jen would be the top arcanist left standing.

They're from Dragon Magazine, and specifically the Dragon Magazine Compendium. They get to change their spells known every day, in a similar retrieval fashion to the Spirit Shaman.

The Wu Jen is seriously hurt by the lack of core spells; have you looked at their spell list? It's about 75% core spells, and the Wu Jen-specific spells are, on the whole, mediocre. The Sha'ir can retrieve any spell off the Wiz list, pretty much, and a few spells off divine lists (there are some restrictions on what spells they can get, the more obscure the spell the longer it takes to retrieve it, and there is a Diplomacy check involved too. It's a pretty interesting class).

Chronos
2008-04-26, 12:36 PM
I knew there was a reason I left 2 spaces open.Let me rephrase that: And just what non-core item creation feat do you plan to use to craft it?

Eldariel
2008-04-26, 12:49 PM
Buy from me! I'm an artificer!

Talic
2008-04-26, 01:11 PM
If anything, your Strength and Charisma are too low. I don't understand how you get Str and Cha +2 every level for 16 levels and not get more than 32 of each...

It's a ridiculously good build, though. I predict a spate of builds that simply apply the same template 15-20 times.

The problem is finding a good non-core undead to apply it to. Most Templates are a once only thing. This one specifically states that it can be applied more than once.

+2 Str per level x 16 levels = +32 Str (on top of the +8 for Mummified critter)
+2 Cha per level x 16 levels = +32 Cha (on top of the +4 for Mummified critter, +2 Spellscale, +5 level bumps, and 2 more points in it initially)

All said and done, I wanted to make something that could negative level to death, but ended up with something that Stunned things to oblivion at level 20. Or did a hideous blow Coup de Grace when they were paralyzed. Whatever works.

It's got a cone that does knockback and knock prone, will saves for stunning or shaken, fort for neg levels, and a +26 Fort save at level 20. Not bad, for an undead.

EDIT: Please note, the stats listed are for level 4. The final stats are STR: 52, CHA 59 (everything else the same)

Talic
2008-04-26, 01:22 PM
Let me rephrase that: And just what non-core item creation feat do you plan to use to craft it?

A +29 Cha modifier and 11 ranks in diplomacy. That's a +40 modifier, should be enough to do it.

In other words... Someone else's. I'll provide the Imbue item, the resources, and the xp, whoever else can provide the item creation.

JaxGaret
2008-04-27, 04:10 PM
Is the Anima Mage from ToM allowed or banned?

Chronos
2008-04-27, 05:31 PM
Well, technically it's allowed, but it's kind of hard to argue that it's not a dual-advancement class, given that it has full progression of two classes' primary features (and magical features, at that). I'd stay away from it.

JaxGaret
2008-04-27, 05:36 PM
Well, technically it's allowed, but it's kind of hard to argue that it's not a dual-advancement class, given that it has full progression of two classes' primary features (and magical features, at that). I'd stay away from it.

That's what I figured. I'll make two builds, one with it and one without it - I just really like the build with it.

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-27, 05:39 PM
Pretty much done with Deadnest I think.
One thing has me stumped however.
I have been unable to find any non-core way to get an Enhancement or Inherent bonus to charisma.

The magic item compendium has some armor which gives enhancement bonuses to strength and dexterity, but I didn't notice any for charisma.

Draz74
2008-04-27, 05:55 PM
Is the Anima Mage from ToM allowed or banned?

Allowed, in terms of being non-core; but it's a dual-progression PrC, so using it in this Gestalt contest will get you thousands of cheese points. Except maybe if you only use it for its class features, i.e., on the other side of your Gestalt progression, you have either full casting or full binding, overlapping either the casting abilities or the binding abilities of your Anima Mage levels. (I used it that way in a previous contest.)

Chronos
2008-04-27, 07:06 PM
While we're at it on asking for advice, can anyone suggest a good 2-level dip class with full BAB and some sort of damage bonus that applies to all attacks? The Warblade levels I have in my character right now aren't really doing much besides acting as a placeholder.

And just to be clear, I gather that Amulet of Mighty Fists is off-limits, since it's a core item made using a core spell, right? A pity... With seven natural weapons, it'd actually be worthwhile.

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-27, 08:00 PM
Not quite what you had in mind, but try picking up Enervating Arm from LM, it will give a +4 Inherent bonus to strength.

Nebo_
2008-04-27, 09:23 PM
Buy from me! I'm an artificer!

Sorry, but the Artificer fails this challenge. Most of their bonus feats are Core.

Squash Monster
2008-04-27, 09:26 PM
A few questions:

Anybody know some good non-core divine buff spells?

Anybody know any non-core non-exotic reach weapons?


Sorry, but the Artificer fails this challenge. Most of their bonus feats are Core.Since you don't get a choice about getting most of those feats, you get them according to the duke's earlier ruling. That makes the Artificer still pretty good.

Talic
2008-04-27, 09:29 PM
Sorry, but the Artificer fails this challenge. Most of their bonus feats are Core.


A feat that is otherwise banned is allowed only if it is a non-optional class feature of a class or prestige class (e.g., Marshal gets Skill Focus: Diplomacy, and that is allowed, but Incantatrix cannot take Quicken Spell with a bonus metamgaic feat)

1234567890

Nebo_
2008-04-27, 09:33 PM
A feat that is otherwise banned is allowed only if it is a non-optional class feature of a class or prestige class (e.g., Marshal gets Skill Focus: Diplomacy, and that is allowed, but Incantatrix cannot take Quicken Spell with a bonus metamgaic feat)

Since when are item creation feats not optimal for an artificer?



While we're at it on asking for advice, can anyone suggest a good 2-level dip class with full BAB and some sort of damage bonus that applies to all attacks? The Warblade levels I have in my character right now aren't really doing much besides acting as a placeholder.

Warblade with punishing stance does that.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-27, 10:02 PM
I'm just not feeling inspired for this one...

I will have an entry... I just need to figure out what I want to do.

Chronos
2008-04-27, 10:10 PM
Warblade with punishing stance does that.Yeah, but I've already got better stances from Swordsage. Assassin's is +2d6 to Punishing's +1d6. I need extra damage that'll stack with Assassin's Stance.

Nebo_, the word is "optional", not "optimal". Artificers have no choice but to take Craft Wondrous Item, etc., so they're non-optional.

monty
2008-04-27, 11:25 PM
While we're asking for advice, what's a good 2-level dip for a divine caster // other divine caster with really high CHA?

The Gilded Duke
2008-04-27, 11:35 PM
The Paragnostic caster class from Complete Champion has quite a few really nice abilities, I don't remember the prereqs of hand though.

avr
2008-04-27, 11:43 PM
Name: Quori Coffee
Build: Kalashtar Unarmed Swordsage 5 / Atavist 10 / US +5 // Warblade 20
Starting Ability Scores: STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 8 (level ups into STR)
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Cheese Points: zero using Dukes' interpretation of allowable multiclassing (each side counted separately), 1 if using the most restrictive interpretation
Power Breaks: Level 15 - trade psionic focus for an extra standard action

{table]Level|Side 1|Side 2|Class Features
1|Unarmed Swordsage 1|Warblade 1|Quick to act +1, batle clarity (+INT bonus to Reflex saves), weapon aptitude
2|Unarmed Swordsage 2|Warblade 2|AC bonus, uncanny dodge
3|Unarmed Swordsage 3|Warblade 3|Battle ardor (+INT to confirm crits)
4|Unarmed Swordsage 4|Warblade 4|Discipline focus (+WIS to damage w/Diamond Mind strikes)
5|Unarmed Swordsage 5|Warblade 5|Quick to act +2
6|Atavist 1|Warblade 6|Call to mind (3/day), spiritual lineage (aggressive), unarmed strike improvement, imp uncanny dodge
7|Atavist 2|Warblade 7|Augmented mindlink, defensive insight, battle cunning (damage)
8|Atavist 3|Warblade 8|Supportive mindlink +1
9|Atavist 4|Warblade 9|Detect possession
10|Atavist 5|Warblade 10|Spiritual focus (+5' reach with unarmed attacks)
11|Atavist 6|Warblade 11|Supportive mindlink +2, batlle skill (opposed checks)
12|Atavist 7|Warblade 12|Quori hunter
13|Atavist 8|Warblade 13|Dismissing strike
14|Atavist 9|Warblade 14|Personal mind blank, supportive mindlink +3
15|Atavist 10|Warblade 15|Spiritual union, battle mastery (AoOs)
16|Unarmed Swordsage 6|Warblade 16|
17|Unarmed Swordsage 7|Warblade 17|Sense magic
18|Unarmed Swordsage 8|Warblade 18|Discipline focus (+2 saves in Diamond Mind stance)
19|Unarmed Swordsage 9|Warblade 19|Evasion
20|Unarmed Swordsage 10|Warblade 20|Quick to act +3, stance mastery (2 stances active at once)[/table]

Feats
1: Heroic focus, Improved unarmed strike (Unarmed Swordsage), Weapon focus (Greatsword, greataxe, heavy mace, unarmed strike) (Unarmed Swordsage)
3: Superior unarmed strike
5: Blade meditation (Diamond Mind) (Warblade)
6: Snap kick
9: Stormguard warrior, Ironheart aura (Warblade)
12: Instant clarity
13: Blade meditation (Iron Heart) (Warblade)
15: Heroic spirit
17: Stone power
18: Evasive reflexes

How it works, level 1-14
Kalashtar are naturally psionic, so QC gets a psionic focus. The ability to take 15 on a concentration check is very useful with Diamond mind manoeuvres - the counters, ___ Nightmare Blade strikes and Insightful Strike (normal or Greater). The Heroic focus feat lets QC spend a move action and an action point to get focus back, and later Instant clarity gives another means of getting it back during combat.

On the right side of the gestalt, all levels improve unarmed damage as a monk, the Superior unarmed strike feat increases this to as per a monk of 4 levels higher than his character level, and the Snap kick feat allows an unarmed strike to be added to any attack (full action or standard action) if a -2 is taken to all attacks in that action. At level 10, all his unarmed strikes get +5' reach and at level 12, the Quori hunter class feature makes his unarmed strikes good-aligned.

From the power break, level 15
At level 15, the capstone ability of the Atavist kicks in. QC gets +4 with a few skills, and 'In addition' can expend his psionic focus to take one extra standard or move action on his turn. Many martial strikes are standard actions, and two of them with an addtional snap kick on each is IMO better than most full attack routines. Not that QC can't throw down a decent fuill attack, with full BAB and potentially manoeuvres like Time Stands Still and/or Raging Mongoose.

After this point QC goes back to improving Swordsage; I would use this to pick up some more Setting Sun counters and Shadow Hand mobility tricks and rely on his Warblade manoeuvres for offence.

Weaknesses
Some MAD. Also, while counters will block the first attack in a routine very nicely, they generally don't improve your AC against second and successive attacks (unless he's 16th level + & has Stance of Alacrity so can use 2 counters/round), and QC isn't optimised for AC. OTOH, d12 HD & all good saves may let him just take it.

Talic
2008-04-27, 11:45 PM
Since when are item creation feats not optimal for an artificer?


Not "Optimal". "Optional". If the class has no choice in the gaining of an ability, you can have it. For example, Artificer cannot choose NOT to get those feats, thus it's legal to have them, by contest rules.

It's one of the very few rules in this contest that's in any way lenient. And even so, it's not very.

monty
2008-04-27, 11:47 PM
The Paragnostic caster class from Complete Champion has quite a few really nice abilities, I don't remember the prereqs of hand though.

I don't have the book either, so that doesn't help me much.

Chronos
2008-04-27, 11:54 PM
While we're asking for advice, what's a good 2-level dip for a divine caster // other divine caster with really high CHA?Hexblade, maybe? That'd give you Cha to saves vs. spells, and the curse might be good right before you hit someone with a save-or-lose. It'd be even better if you could take three levels, to grab Mettle, or scrounge up another couple of levels of full BAB, to hit four iterative attacks.

Nebo_
2008-04-28, 12:11 AM
Nebo_, the word is "optional", not "optimal". Artificers have no choice but to take Craft Wondrous Item, etc., so they're non-optional.

Ah, right. Ignore my moment of dyslexia.

Duke of URL
2008-04-28, 08:31 AM
It's one of the very few rules in this contest that's in any way lenient. And even so, it's not very.

This contest was intended to be highly restrictive, as many of the recent ones have been very open-ended.

Talic
2008-04-28, 10:39 PM
Yeah, I'm cool with that. I still managed to get 2 stats above 50, with no equipment at all.

Bear in mind, people, +1 swords aren't allowed, lol. It's not mundane, and basically enchanted weapons are listed only in the core books. Maybe psionically enchanted weapons (as they actually aren't in the SRD)... Hm.

Nebo_
2008-04-28, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I'm cool with that. I still managed to get 2 stats above 50, with no equipment at all.

Bear in mind, people, +1 swords aren't allowed, lol. It's not mundane, and basically enchanted weapons are listed only in the core books. Maybe psionically enchanted weapons (as they actually aren't in the SRD)... Hm.

The Belt of Magnificence is in the MiniHB. There's a good way to boost stats.

Chronos
2008-04-28, 11:31 PM
It still requires core spells to make one, though, so it may or may not be legal for this contest.

Talic
2008-04-29, 12:24 AM
Unless, of course, you can get those core spells as an Unavoidable class feature. :)

dspeyer
2008-04-29, 12:43 AM
The Babylon Archon
(our last best hope for peace, or, failing that, victory)
Race: Owl Archon
Starting Stats: STR: 16 DEX: 22 CON: 22 INT: 14 WIS: 28 CHA: 20
Level 20 Stats: STR: 16 DEX: 24 CON: 26 INT: 14 WIS: 34 CHA: 33
Build: rhd 10 / ninja 2 / marshall 4 / exemplar 4 // la 8 / favoured soul 3 / sacred exorcist 9
Playable from: 11
Important feats: sacred vow, vow of poverty, subduing strike, vow of nonviolence, intuitive strike, reach spell, chain spell, dmm(chain spell)
Casts: 12th level favoured soul with very high stats and dmm
20th level AC: 56
Skills: rhd=8, ninja=6, marshal=4 exemplar=8, so enough for both stealth and interaction.

How it works:

The Bablyon Archon descends into the ugliest and deadliest conflicts within the mortal world: places where neither side is itself evil, but the death and suffering brings glee to the infernal planes. If the conflict is straightforward, diplomacy and sense-motive (both class skills with excellent ability modifiers) should suffice to end it. If the conflict is deep-seated, perform(oratory) should build a genuine social movement to end it. If extremist terrorism threatens a settlement, dmm chain-spell revivify can fix that (revive up to 12 people for 200 xp with no level or con loss).

If, however, the conflict is in part produced by manipulative outsiders (either other nations looking to keep both rivals weak or devils who get tired of doing their own killing), TBA is well-prepared to track them down. Speak-with-animals and charm-animal at will provide a large informant network. True Seeing (VoP) helps him spot devils and anyone else with a magical disguise. High dexterity combined with ninja powers allow careful stalking of suspects. High AC, DR, SR and HP allow him to walk into dangerous situations. When he finds the guilty party, he can catch them with eye-beams or spells (+4 dc from vow of nonviolence), face them in melee or grapple, or simply reveal them so their manipulations fail (zone of revelation may be helpful here).

--- Crunch Notes ---
When constructing this, it was ridiculously hard to get perform as a class skill without doing something ridiculous. As is, marshall is highly suboptimal, but it's skill focus(diplomacy) lets me take exemplar (I suppose I could, probably should, have made it a one-level dip, but I figured if I was doing this I might as well pick up a major aura).

I think what's making this challenge as a whole so hard is the number of core prerequisites for cool noncore things: including most cool prestige classes (even the ones here have core requirements, skill focus and dismissal, but I obtained them without choosing them).

Chronos
2008-04-29, 10:58 AM
Unless, of course, you can get those core spells as an Unavoidable class feature. :)Any idea of a build that could do that, so I could buy a Belt of Magnificence from him? My build is about as MAD as they come, right now.

dspeyer, you could also get Perform from Factotum levels (like Exemplars, they have everything as a class skill, and they're a base class, so no prereqs), or you could just wait for the Exemplar levels to dump points into it (though you'd still need to get Skill Focus from somewhere to take Exemplar). But I wouldn't call Marshal sub-optimal for your build in the first place: Inspire Charisma is a +11 bonus to your Diplomacy and Oratory checks, which is probably enough to justify it right there.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-29, 11:04 AM
Hmm. I'm thinking of Doing a Knight//Favored Soul.... but, I'm having trouble coming up with a race and/or template. Any suggestions?

Charlie Kemek
2008-04-29, 06:08 PM
what about a class (like beguiler) that gets all their spells except for advanced learning, automatically. do they get core spells on their list?

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-04-29, 09:07 PM
Well, I've got Klik Pow almost finished, all I need is maneuvers and toys...

Almost wish there was a way to shrink myself. There's a Setting Sun stance which is particularly vicious against opponents larger than yourself.

Squash Monster
2008-04-29, 10:50 PM
The basics of my entry are up. I may edit in maneuvers and spells.

Maneuvers are a bit odd though. Should I list maneuvers at level 20, or what?

monty
2008-04-29, 11:24 PM
Name: The Wild Beauty
Class: Favored Soul (Isis) 20 // LA 5 / LA +3 (Fire-Souled) / LA +2 (Saint) / Apostle of Peace 10
Race/Alignment: Neutral Good Saint Fire-Souled Draconic Half-Vampire Half-Nymph Raptoran - Outsider (native, fire)
Starting Ability Scores (Level 5): STR 12, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 16, CHA 26
Level 20 Ability Scores: STR 12, DEX 12, CON 18, INT 16, WIS 26, CHA 45
Cheese Points: None (see template justification below)
Minimum Playable Level: 5 (Saint and Fire-Souled are both acquired)
Power Break: 10 (Saint gives lots of nice stuff), 12 (Nonlethal Substitution with Energy Substitution means you can use your elemental spells on anything)

{table]Level | Classes | Feat | Bonus Feat(s) | Class/Vow of Poverty Features
1 | Favored Soul 1 // LA 1 | Sacred Vow | Improved Initiative | AC +4
2 | Favored Soul 2 // LA 2 | | |
3 | Favored Soul 3 // LA 3 | Vow of Poverty | Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff) | AC +5, Endure Elements
4 | Favored Soul 4 // LA 4 | | Vow of Nonviolence | Exalted Strike +1 (magic)
5 | Favored Soul 5 // LA 5 | | | Sustenance, Energy Resistance 10 (1st type)
6 | Favored Soul 6 // LA 6 (Fire-Souled 1) | Rapid Spell | Vow of Peace, Leadership | AC +6, Deflection +1
7 | Favored Soul 7 // LA 7 (Fire-Souled 2) | | | Resistance +1, +2 WIS
8 | Favored Soul 8 // LA 8 (Fire-Souled 3) | | Intuitive Attack | Damage Reduction 5/evil, Natural Armor +1, Mind Shielding
9 | Favored Soul 9 // LA 9 (Saint 1) | Energy Substitution (Electricity) | | AC +7
10 | Favored Soul 10 // LA 10 (Saint 2) | | Nymph's Kiss | Exalted Strike +2 (good), Energy Resistance 10 (2nd type)
11 | Favored Soul 11 // Apostle of Peace 1 | | | +4 WIS / +2 CHA, Turn Undead
12 | Favored Soul 12 // Apostle of Peace 2 | Nonlethal Substitution (Electricity) | Exalted Turning, Weapon Specialization (Quarterstaff) | Damage Reduction 10/evil, AC +8, Deflection +2, Greater Sustenance, Pacifying Touch
13 | Favored Soul 13 // Apostle of Peace 3 | | | Resistance +2, Energy Resistance 5 (all)
14 | Favored Soul 14 // Apostle of Peace 4 | | Words of Creation | Exalted Strike +3, Freedom of Movement, Censure Fiends
15 | Favored Soul 15 // Apostle of Peace 5 | Energy Admixture (Electricity) | | AC +9, +6 WIS / +4 CHA / +2 CON, Energy Resistance (3rd type)
16 | Favored Soul 16 // Apostle of Peace 6 | | Nimbus of Light | Natural Armor +2
17 | Favored Soul 17 // Apostle of Peace 7 | | | Exalted Strike +4, Resistance +3, Regeneration, Wings
18 | Favored Soul 18 // Apostle of Peace 8 | Divine Metamagic (Energy Admixture) | Holy Radiance | AC +10, Deflection +3, True Seeing
19 | Favored Soul 19 // Apostle of Peace 9 | | | +8 WIS / +6 CHA / +4 CON / +2 INT
20 | Favored Soul 20 // Apostle of Peace 10 | | Touch of Golden Ice | Exalted Strike +5, Energy Resistance 15 (all), Damage Reduction 10/(choice of silver or cold iron)[/table]

Template Justification
Saint - She's exalted. It can't be that hard to write an "extraordinary sacrifice" into the backstory somewhere.
Fire-Souled - Again, exalted. Her entire life is devoted to the cause of good.
Draconic - Dragon ancestor. What more do you need?
Half-Vampire - Libris Moris mentions that the template can come from a pregnant woman being bitten by a vampire. Easy enough to work into the backstory.
Half-Nymph - A raptoran slept with a nymph. Not that hard to justify.

Why I chose them
Saint - Probably has the best benefit-to-LA ratio I've ever seen, with the restriction that you can never have done anything evil. Gives you Wisdom to AC, +2 to the save DC of all special attacks (including spells), bonus damage and damage against attackers, 4 at-will SLAs, damage reduction, fast healing, immunity to 3 elements and petrification, low-light vision and darkvision, double-strength magic circle against evil and lesser globe of invulnerability at will, fire resistance and bonus against poison, perpetual tongues, and a total +8 to abilities. I shouldn't need to explain why I took this.
Fire-Souled - drains Charisma-based abilities (bard, sorcerer spells and a lot of SLAs), haste 1/day, bonuses to nearby allies, immunity to stunning and dazing, +4 Charisma, and Leadership as a bonus feat. The ability bonus is good, and it works well with the concept.
Draconic - +1 natural armor, 2 claw attacks, low-light vision and darkvision, +4 against sleep and paralysis, +6 total ability bonus, +2 Intimidate and Spot. Draconic ancestry always makes an interesting story, and the bonuses aren't bad for the LA.
Half-Vampire - +2 natural armor, slam attack, charm gaze, children of the night, damage reduction, fast healing, resistance to cold and electricity, +6 to abilities, +2 on various skills, and Improved Initiative. Makes a good story, and the charm gaze works well with the concept.
Half-Nymph - awesome beauty, fey bloodline, low-light vision, and +10 to abilities. Works well with the high Charisma.


How it works
One important thing here is flight. Flying is always helpful, and between the inability to use magic items and the inability to use the spell Fly, having natural flight, especially as (Ex), can really come in handy. Also, gliding means you can never take more than 1d6 falling damage, even if you get paralyzed or whatever in midair. The main focus of this build is casting lots and lots of spells. At low levels, you'll probably mostly be buffing and casting non-damaging spells, unless you fight a lot of undead and/or constructs, but once you get Nonlethal Substitution, you can use any spell that does elemental damage against any enemy without breaking your Vows. The only problem there is that you can't metamagic your Favored Soul spells during flight because you don't have perfect maneuverability, so you have to continue moving every turn (you can still use metamagic with your Apostle of Peace spells while flying)(also, I'm not certain how Rapid Spell works with spontaneous casters, but that might let you use other metamagics as a standard action; I'll update it if I find out for sure). Although most of your spells have Wisdom-based DCs, with fairly mediocre Wisdom, Vow of Nonviolence and the Saint's Holy Power ability help make up for this, giving you a save DC of 24 + spell level at level 20. Also, with such a high Charisma, you'll probably want to be the party face. Between skill ranks, your Charisma modifier, and miscellaneous bonuses, your Diplomacy check should be fairly high if you want to abuse that. However, you only get 15*(2+2)+8*(4+2)+2*(4+3) = 122 skill points, which lets you max out 122/23 = 5.3 skills. Assuming you max Concentration, Spellcraft, and Knowledge (Religion), that only leaves 2 other skills to max, with 7 skill points left over. Diplomacy would be a good choice, since several of the exalted feats give bonuses to that (if you max it, your modifier should be around 50). Also, you need 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) for Energy Substitution.

Leadership - since it's a template feature rather than a class one, I wasn't sure if it fell under "non-optional class features," but assuming it's allowed, a cohort always makes life easier. Also, with that Charisma score and the additional +2 Leadership bonus from Fire-Souled, you should have lots of followers. If you take the unofficial epic Vow of Poverty progression (gives divine rank 0 at level 40), you'd be well on your way to godhood.

Spells at 20th level: 87 (33 bonus) Favored Soul + 50 (12 bonus) Apostle of Peace for a grand total of 137 spells per day, so not likely to run out.


Combat

Offense:
Save DCs aren't great, since she only has 26 Wisdom, but the absurd amount of spells you can cast makes up for that to some extent, and Vow of Nonviolence and Holy Power boost that anyway.
I'd focus on either buffing, no-save spells, or just spamming everything.
Half-nymph's Awesome Beauty means that anything looking at you has to make a DC 39 (Saint gives +2) Will save to avoid being shaken.
Any weapon you use is treated as magic, if you somehow run out of spells.


Defense:
HP at ECL 20 = 10d8+10d6+80 = 160
Base AC at ECL 20 = 10 + 1 (Dex) + 15 (Vow of Poverty) + 6 (Vow of Peace) + 1 (Draconic) + 8 (Saint) + 2 (Half-Vampire) = 41 (with no items or buffs)
Touch AC of 16, if I did it right. Flat-footed 40 should be plenty.
Immunity to acid, cold, and electricity; fire resistance 10 from Saint. Favored Soul gives you 10 resistance to 3 elements, and Vow of Poverty gives you up to 15 against all of them.
Damage Reduction 5/silver or magic, 5/magic, 10/evil, and 10/(silver or cold iron). Since she's NG, you can choose either metal for her damage reduction.
3 good saves all the way through, plus the bonus from Vow of Poverty, giving you Fort 20/Ref 16/Will 23 + miscellaneous bonuses against specific effects at level 20.


Books I used, in no particular order:
Complete Divine, Book of Exalted Deeds, Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Races of the Wild, Complete Arcane, Dragon Magazine #313, #314, #323. If I missed any, let me know.

Duke of URL
2008-04-30, 06:37 AM
I'm pretty sure that Fire Souled is not an LA +1 template, but that it's a typo at Crystal Keep.

Talic
2008-04-30, 08:18 AM
Any idea of a build that could do that, so I could buy a Belt of Magnificence from him? My build is about as MAD as they come, right now.

Well, IMO, you wouldn't be able to buy it. You'd have to be able to MAKE it. If it were buying it, anyone could do it. So, whatever it is, it'll need articifer.

monty
2008-04-30, 08:41 AM
Oh yeah, now that I actually look at the LA in the magazine, it's +3. I'm in a hurry, so I'll fix that later.

JaxGaret
2008-04-30, 11:17 PM
Whew, just finished up the final touches on my entry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4247807&postcount=29)! Everyone let me know what you think, I happen to like it :smallsmile:

monty
2008-05-01, 07:32 PM
I'm tempted to submit a Samurai // Truenamer build, but the mere thought of its absolute lack of potential scares me.

JaxGaret
2008-05-01, 09:07 PM
I'm tempted to submit a Samurai // Truenamer build, but the mere thought of its absolute lack of potential scares me.

At least it has UMD.

A Ninja // Soulknife, while awesome in concept, would be truly frighteningly bad in play.

koldstare
2008-05-01, 09:19 PM
Well technically ALL entries are suspect.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

It is in the SRD which violates the rules of the OP.

Tokiko Mima
2008-05-01, 09:33 PM
I think people are taking this 'nothing in the SRD' thing a little far. The rules never banned magic items or special character rules like gestalt or LA.


In-Core-Eligible" Specific Rules

Entries may be submitted and edited up until noon PST on Thursday, May 1, 2008.
Challenge Goal: Design the best build possible that uses NO race, class, prestige class, feat, spell, or power found in "Core" (PHB/DMG/MM) or the SRD.
No variant of a banned class or prestige class is allowed, even if it is from a different source (e.g., non-spellcasting Ranger from the Complete series still wouldn't be acceptable)
Likewise, no subrace of a banned race is allowed.
A feat that is otherwise banned is allowed only if it is a non-optional class feature of a class or prestige class (e.g., Marshal gets Skill Focus: Diplomacy, and that is allowed, but Incantatrix cannot take Quicken Spell with a bonus metamgaic feat)


Even stuff like using dual progression classes, or relying on UMD or Diplomacy is allowed, but you have to add the cheese points into the final build.

Bassetking
2008-05-02, 12:08 AM
Name: Tac'me "Istus's Shear" Ar'pel

Concept: Tac'me Arpel, otherwise known as "Istus's Shear" , is the living enforcer of the inevitability of fate. When the threads on Istus's golden spindle twist or snarl, Tac'me is called upon to shrive the tangled skein.

Race: Illumian (Uurkrau)

Base Stats:
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16

Put all bonuses into cha.

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD
1 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 1 | d10
2 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 2 | d10
3 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 3 | d10
4 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 4 | d10
5 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 5 | d10
6 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 6/1 | d10
7 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 7/2 | d10
8 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 8/3 | d10
9 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 9/4 | d10
10 | Crusader | Favored Soul | 10/5 | d10
11 | Crusader | Contemplative | 11/6 | d10
12 | Crusader | Contemplative | 12/7 | d10
13 | Crusader | Contemplative | 13/8 | d10
14 | Crusader | Contemplative | 14/9 | d10
15 | Crusader | Contemplative | 15/10/5 | d10
16 | Crusader | Contemplative | 16/11/6/1 | d10
17 | Crusader | Contemplative | 17/12/5/2 | d10
18 | Crusader | Contemplative | 18/13/6/3 | d10
19 | Crusader | Contemplative | 19/14/7/4 | d10
20 | Crusader | Contemplative | 20/15/10/5 | d10
[/table]

Expected HP:
20d10 + 40 = 150

Casts as:
20th level Favored Soul

Feats:
1st: Adaptive Style
3rd: Martial Study (Diamond Mind: Emerald Razor)
6th: Sudden Recovery
9th: Evasive Reflexes
12th: Imbued Healing [Luck]
15th: Martial Study (Diamond Mind: Moment of Perfect mind)
18th: Martial Study (Diamond Mind: Mind over Body)


Spells:
0: Amanuensis
1:Grave Strike, Conviction, Faith Healing, Inhibit, Updraft, Lesser Vigor
2:Close Wounds, Dark Way, Avoid Planar Effects, Light of Mercuria, Deific Vengance, Divine Protection
3:Awaken Sin, Ring of Blades, Know Opponent, Vigor, Nauseating Breath, Tremor
4: Assay Spell Resistance, Panacea, sound lance, contingent energy resistance, castigate, hand of the faithful
5:Divine Agility, Dragonbreath, Triadspell, revivify, Righteous Wrath of the faithful, Greater Vigor
6:Cometfall, Hide the Path, Ice Flowers, Sarcophagus of stone, vigorous circle, Visage of the Deity
7:Holy Star, Greater Plane Shift, Mass Restoration, Slime Wave, Brilliant Blade, Mass Spell Resistance
8:Brilliant Aura, Death Pact, Fierce Pride of the Beastland, Stormrage, Wall of Greater Dispel Magic
9:Awaken Construct, Summon Elemental Monolith, Greater Visage of the Deity, Heavenly Host

Maneuvers:
Martial Spirit, Leading the Charge, Aura of Chaos, Thicket of Blades.

Emerald Razor

Vanguard's Strike, Crusader's Strike, Charging Minotaur, Mountain Hammer, Crushing Vise, Ancient Mountain Hammer, Adamantium Bones, Divine Surge, Entangling Blade, White Raven Tactics, Lions Roar, Douse the Flames, Lead the Attack

Strengths:
Casts as a 20th level Favored Soul. While not the heaviest casting, it's still full 9th level divine casting, and has access to Non-core conjuration[healing] spells.

With the Contemplative PrC, the character is immune to all diseases, all poisons, all compulsions... And gains access to Domains available to their god or alignment. Istus has access to the Oracle Domain, which is, by Complete Champion, Equivalent to the Luck Domain, Which gives him access to Imbued Healing[Luck]

As a Crusader with Martial Study(Diamond Mind) he has access to both Emerald Razor, which allows attacks to be resolved as melee touch attacks... And Aura Of Chaos

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Tac'me makes use of Istus's favorite weapon... A Dagger. A tiny... dagger...

A "1d2" dagger.

Yes, Tac'me can engage the "1d2 Crusader Infinite Damage" cycle, without losing any points to the contest's stated Cheese Rules, and without going Core.

With Tac'me's Studies into the Diamond Mind Discipline, his lackluster saves are bolstered by the ability to make Concentration checks, instead of using his ability scores. The presence of the Emerald Razor skill also allows him to make his 1d2 dagger attack as a melee touch attack, rather than as a standard melee attack.

Weaknesses:
None. Melee Beast, Magic Powerhouse. A limited spell selection is the only real detriment he faces, and even this is largely obviated by his full initiator abilities, and by the Uurkrau symbol, which allows bonus spells off of Dex, rather than his charisma.

Playable:

Playable from level 1. DRASTIC leap in potentcy at level 14, as that is the point that the Infinite Damage Combo is functional.

Chronos
2008-05-02, 12:36 AM
I should have seen that coming, as soon as I saw that you were submitting an entry that combined Crusader and a divine casting class.

Bassetking
2008-05-02, 12:48 AM
I should have seen that coming, as soon as I saw that you were submitting an entry that combined Crusader and a divine casting class.

Yes, but it's the style and Panache with WHICH I accomplished my goal that should be leaving you breathless, Chronos.

Talic
2008-05-02, 01:48 AM
Well technically ALL entries are suspect.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

It is in the SRD which violates the rules of the OP.


Challenge Goal: Design the best build possible that uses NO race, class, prestige class, feat, spell, or power found in "Core" (PHB/DMG/MM) or the SRD.

Gestalt is not a race, class, prestige class, feat, spell, or power. Thus it's fine.

After all, the D20 mechanic is in the SRD too.

Talic
2008-05-02, 01:57 AM
Weaknesses:
None. Melee Beast, Magic Powerhouse. A limited spell selection is the only real detriment he faces, and even this is largely obviated by his full initiator abilities, and by the Uurkrau symbol, which allows bonus spells off of Dex, rather than his charisma.

No weaknesses? With only 150 hp at level 20? What do the guy's saves come out to be?

Further, while Uurkrau means Dex now determines bonus spells per day, it does not determine maximum level castable. With a final Cha of 10, and a final Dex of 21, it looks like you'd get:

2 bonus 1st level spells
1 bonus 2nd level spell
1 bonus 3rd level spell
1 bonus 4th level spell
1 bonus 5th level spell

Max Spell level able to be cast: Level 0.

Bassetking
2008-05-02, 02:27 AM
No weaknesses? With only 150 hp at level 20? What do the guy's saves come out to be?

Further, while Uurkrau means Dex now determines bonus spells per day, it does not determine maximum level castable. With a final Cha of 10, and a final Dex of 21, it looks like you'd get:

2 bonus 1st level spells
1 bonus 2nd level spell
1 bonus 3rd level spell
1 bonus 4th level spell
1 bonus 5th level spell

Max Spell level able to be cast: Level 0.

Entirely right, good chap, and prompting me to swap 'is wisdom and charisma, and re-route his level bonuses to his Cha as well. With Emerald Razor allowing me to resolve attacks as melee touch attacks, it becomes far less necessary to power-boost dex the way I had.

In regards to saves, he comes out with a base +12 to Fort, a +7 Ref, and a +7 Will, before any mods. After Base stats are adjusted, it comes to +14, +9, +7.

Further: This build is entirely without gear. The build is 100% "Playable" with nothing more than a 1d2 weapon. Any 1d2 weapon. He doesn't even need pants.

Since I didn't choose spells for our Poor favored soul in the above post, lemme get those taken care of here.

0: Amanuensis
1:Grave Strike, Conviction, Faith Healing, Inhibit, Updraft, Lesser Vigor
2:Close Wounds, Dark Way, Avoid Planar Effects, Light of Mercuria, Deific Vengance, Divine Protection
3:Awaken Sin, Ring of Blades, Know Opponent, Vigor, Nauseating Breath, Tremor
4: Assay Spell Resistance, Panacea, sound lance, contingent energy resistance, castigate, hand of the faithful
5:Divine Agility, Dragonbreath, Triadspell, revivify, Righteous Wrath of the faithful, Greater Vigor
6:Cometfall, Hide the Path, Ice Flowers, Sarcophagus of stone, vigorous circle, Visage of the Deity
7:Holy Star, Greater Plane Shift, Mass Restoration, Slime Wave, Brilliant Blade, Mass Spell Resistance
8:Brilliant Aura, Death Pact, Fierce Pride of the Beastland, Stormrage, Wall of Greater Dispel Magic
9:Awaken Construct, Summon Elemental Monolith, Greater Visage of the Deity, Heavenly Host

Maneuvers:
Martial Spirit, Leading the Charge, Aura of Chaos, Thicket of Blades.

Emerald Razor

Vanguard's Strike, Crusader's Strike, Charging Minotaur, Mountain Hammer, Crushing Vise, Ancient Mountain Hammer, Adamantium Bones, Divine Surge, Entangling Blade, White Raven Tactics, Lions Roar, Douse the Flames, Lead the Attack

Talic
2008-05-02, 11:54 AM
Entirely right, good chap, and prompting me to swap 'is wisdom and charisma, and re-route his level bonuses to his Cha as well. With Emerald Razor allowing me to resolve attacks as melee touch attacks, it becomes far less necessary to power-boost dex the way I had.

In regards to saves, he comes out with a base +12 to Fort, a +7 Ref, and a +7 Will, before any mods. After Base stats are adjusted, it comes to +14, +9, +7.

Further: This build is entirely without gear. The build is 100% "Playable" with nothing more than a 1d2 weapon. Any 1d2 weapon. He doesn't even need pants.

Since I didn't choose spells for our Poor favored soul in the above post, lemme get those taken care of here.

0: Amanuensis
1:Grave Strike, Conviction, Faith Healing, Inhibit, Updraft, Lesser Vigor
2:Close Wounds, Dark Way, Avoid Planar Effects, Light of Mercuria, Deific Vengance, Divine Protection
3:Awaken Sin, Ring of Blades, Know Opponent, Vigor, Nauseating Breath, Tremor
4: Assay Spell Resistance, Panacea, sound lance, contingent energy resistance, castigate, hand of the faithful
5:Divine Agility, Dragonbreath, Triadspell, revivify, Righteous Wrath of the faithful, Greater Vigor
6:Cometfall, Hide the Path, Ice Flowers, Sarcophagus of stone, vigorous circle, Visage of the Deity
7:Holy Star, Greater Plane Shift, Mass Restoration, Slime Wave, Brilliant Blade, Mass Spell Resistance
8:Brilliant Aura, Death Pact, Fierce Pride of the Beastland, Stormrage, Wall of Greater Dispel Magic
9:Awaken Construct, Summon Elemental Monolith, Greater Visage of the Deity, Heavenly Host

Sounds not bad. The saves are a major weakness, though. There are things kicking around at level 20 that require DC 30 and 40 saves. It puts your build into the realm of "glass cannons". Able to nuke in physical combat, but low save DC's for your own abilities, and low resistances to opponent abilities Give this character some pretty glaring weaknesses.

Further, most players are going for "without equipment" builds. Heck, my build is without equipment. As any armor/weapon with an enhancement bonus derived from magic (rather than psionics) isn't legal (magic armor and weapons are outlined and priced in the DMG) it makes it harder to build a decent weapon.

As any item that uses a core spell as a prereq is also illegal, it severely restricts the magical equipment you can choose. It's rough. Heck, with my lock build, I couldn't choose half the invocations in the game, as they replicated core spells. Thus, most players are just going the "no equipment listed" route. Thus, almost every character in this thread is playable without pants. Some are playable without anything at all.

olelia
2008-05-02, 12:19 PM
In that regards...doesn't that mean that he won't be able to use the dagger? Since the dagger is from the PH1 :smallconfused:.

Chronos
2008-05-02, 12:29 PM
Sounds not bad. The saves are a major weakness, though. There are things kicking around at level 20 that require DC 30 and 40 saves.I assume that he has the Diamond Mind counters that let him substitute Concentration checks for saves, though. And I don't think he needs to use any swift or immediate actions to activate his überdamage loop. So he's really only in trouble if he gets hit by two high-DC saves in one round.


In that regards...doesn't that mean that he won't be able to use the dagger? Since the dagger is from the PH1Duke did say that we're allowed to use Core mundane equipment. Even if not, though, I'm sure there's a funky weapon in some splatbook, somewhere, that does 1d2 damage.

I'm not sure that either of these is the proper criticism to direct to the 1d2 crusader, though...

Duke of URL
2008-05-02, 12:36 PM
I know it's late in the game, but to clarify -- you may use mundane equipment from the core materials, but you may not use any magic item that requires a core spell as a component of its creation. (Core feats either, for that matter, except for the workaround for that folks found via the Artificer class.)

Talic
2008-05-02, 02:37 PM
I'm not sure that either of these is the proper criticism to direct to the 1d2 crusader, though...

It is, when it's being advertised also as a Magic Powerhouse with no weaknesses. I'd say criticism that shows less than optimal save DC's for spells and extremely low saves is a valid criticism, based on those claims.

MorkaisChosen
2008-05-03, 08:27 AM
The Boss

Lawful Anything Glimmerfolk Knight 20// Marshal 20

Very simple build here- pump Charisma for all it's worth, and you basically control the battlefield. High HP and AC due to Knighthood (without sacrificing manevrability), and Charisma synergy on your Marshal minor auras (which are usually pretty good if you change with the circumstances). Also, if you've got a decent Charisma (and therefore a decent number of Knight's Challenge uses per day), you become almost impossible to kill due to Loyal Beyond Death, which uses 1 Challenge per round to keep you alive even after falling below 0 Hit Points. On -50HP? Oh well, I can keep going for about 15 rounds- long enough to drink a few potions...

Chronos
2008-05-03, 10:29 AM
Isn't this supposed to be closed by now?

JaxGaret
2008-05-03, 06:43 PM
Isn't this supposed to be closed by now?

Days ago, yes.

avr
2008-05-05, 03:43 AM
Days ago, yes.

It might be worth dropping your votes in the 2 previous competitions to inspire Duke to action?

Duke of URL
2008-05-05, 06:35 AM
Yeah, the the last time I schedule anything to close on a Friday afternoon. :smallbiggrin:

Entries Now Closed -- Please Do Not Submit Or Modify Entries After This Time

I'll try to get voting up today, but I'm playing catch-up...

MorkaisChosen
2008-05-05, 06:35 AM
Sorry, it says Entries Open on top...

:smallfrown:

Duke of URL
2008-05-05, 08:24 AM
Not anymore.

MorkaisChosen
2008-05-05, 08:28 AM
Does my entry count? It's in before the official close...

Also, the post closing it injaed me slightly.

Chronos
2008-05-05, 04:16 PM
I think that, in the previous challenges, we've counted all entries made before Duke makes the closing post (regardless of the scheduled deadline). So yours should be fine.

Draz74
2008-05-05, 04:22 PM
Reminds me ... I still need to vote for the two of these contests for which the voting was scheduled to close last week, but which haven't actually closed yet. :smallwink:

Chronos
2008-05-05, 04:32 PM
Especially since the reason the voting wasn't closed is that there weren't enough votes to be conclusive.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-05, 04:41 PM
Especially since the reason the voting wasn't closed is that there weren't enough votes to be conclusive.

I'm not voting since I've made an entry in several of the challenges; I don't think I should get a jury vote if I'm a participant. Based on the low amount of votes, I suspect I'm not the only one who feels that.

Draz74
2008-05-05, 04:49 PM
I'm not voting since I've made an entry in several of the challenges; I don't think I should get a jury vote if I'm a participant.
Well, if you pay attention to who has voted, it's mostly participants. Just don't vote for yourself; if everyone voted but avoided voting for themselves, then the best entry would still win.

Of course, it is kinda painful voting against yourself when it might be the deciding vote. That's part of why I haven't gotten around to voting for those last two contests; both of my entries are pretty competitive for the "Party Animal" category. I may just vote for the other categories.


Based on the low amount of votes, I suspect I'm not the only one who feels that.
Actually, my reasons have more to do with the way the voting periods (according to the schedule) were only a couple days long, and they were busy days (both for my real-life schedule, and for the Forum's bandwidth).

Squash Monster
2008-05-05, 07:28 PM
Idea for an upcoming competition:
Tanktics - competition to see who can make the best tank, where a tank is a character who's primary purpose is stopping other characters from getting hit

JaxGaret
2008-05-05, 11:14 PM
Idea for an upcoming competition:
Tanktics - competition to see who can make the best tank, where a tank is a character who's primary purpose is stopping other characters from getting hit

The wording is going to have to be carefully chosen to elicit builds of the type that you are actually looking for.

Basically, what I mean is, will you desire that competition to promote builds like Malconvokers and Iot7Vs, etc.?

Talic
2008-05-05, 11:23 PM
Better yet, an Argent Savant Iot7V... Heh

Squash Monster
2008-05-06, 01:49 AM
Well, I was figuring that a bunch of people would try for magical battlefield control spells then get completely shut down by the fact that everybody has Freedom of Movement past a certain level.

IotSFV and Malconvoker are some pretty interesting choices though. However, I think a good lockdown gish could out-perform them.

Talic
2008-05-06, 01:56 AM
Nope. Freedom of Movement doesn't stop static impenetrable effects, by strict interpretation of RAW. And lockdown gish would generally fail in comparison to a lockdown mage. Besides, it's easier just to build a offensive build that could deal 10,000 damage a round to a 100 tarrasques or dragons within a quarter mile.

In this aspect, Lockdown < beatdown at preventing opponents from effectively attacking others.

Also, you have the critters that would just do 30 dex/str damage a round to things, and have them paralyzed by the fact that their dex or str is 0. Or the one that uses Stasis on everyone that needs protecting. After all, they're safe from attacks.

Squash Monster
2008-05-06, 12:04 PM
Walls and such can generally be avoided by teleportation and such, and monsters are effected by real lockdowns. Stand Still, on the other hand, works by ending an action, which not much exists to counter. I really think a character that buffs himself into the sky and uses the standard Stand Still combo will be more effective than somebody who relies on purely magical methods.

However, if you have a suggestion for how to reword the competition goals I'm all ears. I'm just hesitant to because I don't want to limit the entire competition to Goad, Stand Still, and Improved Trip.