Healer

[sonofzeal]

I have decided, for reasons I won't get into, that I'm going to play a Healer in my next campaign. I know the class is concidered underpowered, I know I could do the same and better with a Cleric, but I'm going to make a go of it. Campaign starts at lvl3, stats are 4d6 drop 1 reroll 1's, and all books plus this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15471796) are allowed. The DM is very permissive, so if there's anything that can help make the class more fun and interesting to play, I'd love to hear it. Still, it's important to me to keep the character as nonviolent as possible.

Character outline so far:

Human Healer 3 (Flaws: Noncombatant, shaky?)
Feats: Augment Healing, Spell Focus: Conj, Cloudy Conjuration, Skill Focus: Heal [B]
Might go for the Saint template eventually.

Goal - a character who lives up to the archetype of the Healer, but is tactically interesting and fun to play in and out of combat.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

There's 2 feats in BoEF that give you a bonus to avoiding attacks as long as you haven't taken an aggressive action yet. Also, look at Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace from BoED, though that may be more severe than you wanted.

[Kizara]

Try to talk your DM into making your spellcasting progression "as cleric".

Do you get turn undead? If so, use it to pick up defensive divine feats.

Seriously look into the BoEF, it has alot of support for non-combative types. Sacred Prositute might be up your alley, and it has some POWERFUL healing abilities if you can meet the RP issues. :)

EDIT: Stupid errors.

[sonofzeal]

There's 2 feats in BoEF that give you a bonus to avoiding attacks as long as you haven't taken an aggressive action yet. Also, look at Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace from BoED, though that may be more severe than you wanted.
Interesting - what would the name of these feats be?

Vow of Nonviolence does little to nothing for me, since I completely lack any sort of spell that would get that bonus, but Vow of Peace looks very nice. I'm concidering nabbing Vow of Poverty at lvl1, and then using the two bonus exalted feats for Nonviolence and Peace. VoP is highly suboptimal later on, but in a lvl 3-6 campaign I think I come out solidly ahead for this character. Thanks for the idea!

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Submissive demeanor and True Submissive. No prerequisites that you won't meet, and together they force a contested will save to attack you. I've never had a character who could use them, but for a Healer they should be perfect.

[Cainen]

Okay, I've made fixes for the Healer. Likely, you'll want to use them - it doesn't break them, but it makes them better at healing than an equivalent cleric. Run them by the GM first - the Healer will get murdered by clerics when it comes to healing due to the feats that allow you to spend Turn attempts, the Healing domain, and better spells(Vigor, anyone?), not to mention DMM cheese and a larger spell list.

First off - make their spellcasting CHA-based. You can make Healing Hands WIS-based, but it's a bad idea - a lack of turning attempts makes them much, much worse at healing than a cleric. Add any spell that has the Conjuration(Healing) descriptor, and the Vigor spells to their list. Add turning attempts - if you use Complete Divine/Champion(which you should, at least for a healer), they become excellent healers. Finally, give them a choice of a single domain(likely one that's normally used for nonviolent purposes, like Water) and saddle them with the Healing domain by default.

Voila. You now have a Healer that, with 18 CHA and a proper selection of feats, can cast CLW with +11 stacked to it by level 3.

First off - you have two flaws, and four(possibly five) feats to play with now. Touch of Healing has excellent effects, and will improve your healing spells all around. It also adds a way to heal without using up spells - it's very specific, but it's also very good. Imbue Healing allows you to stack on a bunch of effects(based on domain, so you'll have to get domains approved first) onto your healing spells. If you have another cleric in your group, grab Sacred Boost. Augment Healing is a given, and you already picked up on it. Divine Ward -can- be useful, but it's not supremely so, or not even in many situations.

Also: Don't take Skill Focus(Heal) as an actual feat. You get that naturally from the class.

[sonofzeal]

Okay, I've made fixes for the Healer. Likely, you'll want to use them - it doesn't break them, but it makes them better at healing than an equivalent cleric. Run them by the GM first - the Healer will get murdered by clerics when it comes to healing due to the feats that allow you to spend Turn attempts, the Healing domain, and better spells(Vigor, anyone?), not to mention DMM cheese and a larger spell list.

First off - make their spellcasting CHA-based. You can make Healing Hands WIS-based, but it's a bad idea - a lack of turning attempts makes them much, much worse at healing than a cleric. Add any spell that has the Conjuration(Healing) descriptor, and the Vigor spells to their list. Add turning attempts - if you use Complete Divine/Champion(which you should, at least for a healer), they become excellent healers. Finally, give them a choice of a single domain(likely one that's normally used for nonviolent purposes, like Water) and saddle them with the Healing domain by default.

Voila. You now have a Healer that, with 18 CHA and a proper selection of feats, can cast CLW with +11 stacked to it by level 3.

First off - you have two flaws, and four(possibly five) feats to play with now. Touch of Healing has excellent effects, and will improve your healing spells all around. It also adds a way to heal without using up spells - it's very specific, but it's also very good. Imbue Healing allows you to stack on a bunch of effects(based on domain, so you'll have to get domains approved first) onto your healing spells. If you have another cleric in your group, grab Sacred Boost. Augment Healing is a given, and you already picked up on it. Divine Ward -can- be useful, but it's not supremely so, or not even in many situations.

Also: Don't take Skill Focus(Heal) as an actual feat. You get that naturally from the class.
Interesting variant, I'll run that by the DM. I especially like making the casting Cha-based, since it makes more sense and helps reduce MAD.

Touch of Healing is tempting, but I think the BoED Vow of Poverty/Nonviolence/Peace is the way to go for this character, given the setting. I could drop Cloudy Conjuration, but it adds a nice controller/utility aspect to the character that seems too good to pass up. The choice is then Augment Healing vs Touch of Healing. My tendancy is towards Augment, but both have advantages.

btw, "Skill Focus: Heal" was already in there as a bonus feat, hence the [b].

[skywalker]

Interesting variant, I'll run that by the DM. I especially like making the casting Cha-based, since it makes more sense and helps reduce MAD.

Touch of Healing is tempting, but I think the BoED Vow of Poverty/Nonviolence/Peace is the way to go for this character, given the setting. I could drop Cloudy Conjuration, but it adds a nice controller/utility aspect to the character that seems too good to pass up. The choice is then Augment Healing vs Touch of Healing. My tendancy is towards Augment, but both have advantages.

btw, "Skill Focus: Heal" was already in there as a bonus feat, hence the [b].

VoP will screw you. You're gonna need wands and stuff for those "oops, ran out of spells" times.
EDIT: Vow of Poverty. Realized there were two "VoP's" in that post.

[sonofzeal]

VoP will screw you. You're gonna need wands and stuff for those "oops, ran out of spells" times.
EDIT: Vow of Poverty. Realized there were two "VoP's" in that post.
Mmm.... 1) since I have no real use for my spells besides healing, I'm not likely to ever run out, 2) even if I do get low, Healing Hands applies to Cure Minor Wounds and makes it pretty darn solid, and 3) by how I read the text, Healers don't have to rest for the night to recharge their spells, they only need an hour of meditation. All in all, I don't expect to buy or use a Wand of CLW either way. I'd love to have a Wand of Entangle, but sadly I don't think that's feasible.

[Cainen]

Mmm.... 1) since I have no real use for my spells besides healing, I'm not likely to ever run out

Untrue. Solid, constant healing will run you out; I play a Healer too.


2) even if I do get low, Healing Hands applies to Cure Minor Wounds and makes it pretty darn solid

And if your GM decides to be flexible on the wording of Augment Healing, they're even more solid.


3) by how I read the text, Healers don't have to rest for the night to recharge their spells, they only need an hour of meditation.

Right, but that's still an hour - and an hour may be too much time. Besides, your GM may saddle you with the typical preparation rules anyways.


All in all, I don't expect to buy or use a Wand of CLW either way.

It's actually very useful, even for a Healer. Preserve your important spells until you need them.

Oh, speaking of preserving - allow a Healer to cast Healing domain spells spontaneously.

[Eldariel]

It seems like there's little incentive to take more than 8 levels of the Healer-class itself. I'd probably switch out to Sacred Exorcist (Complete Divine) or something that gets Turn-attempts, maybe something that advances animal companion as that's what unicorn is (Natural Bond should also work for it). Radiant Servant of Pelor (Complete Divine) really embodies what Healers do too, given that you get Turn-attempts from somewhere. Contemplative (Complete Divine) can be used to qualify as it gives you the ability to gain a Domain. Also, Combat Medic (Heroes of Battle) could be nice for Spontaneous Heal, along with kickers to your Healing-spells.

As far as interesting goes, you could fight with a Net to protect your own guys without really being aggressive, and maybe find some ways to add spells to your list; just healing gets really monotonous in a very short while. Different added effects to your Heal-spells could make you a buffer too; Combat Medic is good for this. Also, Turn Undead is something you'll probably want just so you can burn those Turn-attempts for different abilities. Divine Ward (PHBII), for example, allows you to heal at range by using Turn-attempts. Others give you healing kickers through Turn-attempts and so on; you'll want some.

[Cainen]

It seems like there's little incentive to take more than 8 levels of the Healer-class itself.

Actually, now that I think about it - wouldn't it be a good idea to change some of their higher level powers around, possibly integrating the RSoP empowering/maximizing? Most of the useful stuff comes at earlier levels(a companion is not something to scoff at), and a lot of the later-level abilities are dead weight in a typical game. The Healer is pretty sorely underpowered due to only being marginally better than a specialized healing cleric in the first place, and fixing that problem is better than going 'skip over the class', as far as I'm concerned.


and maybe find some ways to add spells to your list; just healing gets really monotonous in a very short while.

You could say the same thing about fighters and fighting, though. If he's playing a Healer, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't mind healbotting.

[Vazzaroth]

I just found this class recently, and was just wondering:
For the healer's 20th level 1/week True Rez does that still cost XP and GP from the caster?

[Kizara]

I just found this class recently, and was just wondering:
For the healer's 20th level 1/week True Rez does that still cost XP and GP from the caster?

It's a SLA, so no.

[Dannoth]

Cleric of War+Strength - Lawful good

You'll basically be as powerful as any warrior (Bull str + Free Prof. with Long Sword) and you can turn all your spells into Heals.

[Kizara]

Cleric of War+Strength - Lawful good

You'll basically be as powerful as any warrior (Bull str + Free Prof. with Long Sword) and you can turn all your spells into Heals.

Not that such isn't a good build, but it's not appropriate for this character.

Pelor with Healing and Good (yes I know those aren't good domains, but it beats the heck out of the healer class) would be better.

And the RSoP is a good PrC.

[Aquillion]

Cleric of War+Strength - Lawful good

You'll basically be as powerful as any warrior (Bull str + Free Prof. with Long Sword) and you can turn all your spells into Heals.If we're going to suggest alternatives (even though they weren't really asked for), the Cloistered Cleric varient is a more logical choice. That way, you won't have to ask for special houserules on the various things mentioned above.

You mentioned "a character who lives up to the archetype of the Healer, but is tactically interesting and fun to play in and out of combat", and to me that says more Cloistered Cleric than the Healer class.

(And honestly, if you used all the houserules people suggested here to fix the healer, you would basically be a cloistered cleric anyway.)

[Cainen]

Cleric of War+Strength - Lawful good

Seriously, do you guys not read the topic? He said he DIDN'T want that. Hell, I said I didn't want that, as I was playing a single-classed Healer in another topic, and yet several people proceed to completely ignore it. It's understandable if there's a misunderstanding(say, someone thinks the CW Samurai is super powerful), but doing it when people are fully aware of the situation is annoying beyond belief.


You'll basically be as powerful as any warrior (Bull str + Free Prof. with Long Sword) and you can turn all your spells into Heals.

Wouldn't either giving them the ability to do this by default or the ability to cast Healing spells spontaneously have the same effect? The latter helps to differentiate them from the Cleric, so it's not a bad idea.

[Nohwl]

cloistered cleric looked like an interesting class to play. ive wanted to use one, but i always seem to pick something else when im making a character.

[Cainen]

(And honestly, if you used all the houserules people suggested here to fix the healer, you would basically be a cloistered cleric anyway.)

The Cloistered Cleric isn't innately better at healing than a normal Cleric. That's the problem with trying to do that, and it's also why I posited as many fixes for the Healer as I did - it wasn't any better at healing than a Cleric, either.

[Devils_Advocate]

Ah, the poor, poor Healer class. It makes me sad that this class was so poorly designed, because it had the potential to fill a significant niche. Because while clerics are good at healing, they're also good at fighting, and utility spellcasting, and their spell list is a sort of odd grab bag of stuff that the clerics of every god get for no apparent reason. They do too much, to the point where they're overpowered, and their abilities don't really have much of a unifying theme. It would really be nice to have a less powerful and frankly less silly class that could fill the "healer" role, as one might well wish to run a game without the odd Cleric class, or just play a character truly focused on healing. It is quite unfortunate, then, that the Healer class is... not good.

The most obvious problem with the Healer is that it doesn't get spontaneous casting of cure spells. If it got that, it would at least be unambiguously better than Cleric at the single thing it specializes in. But it doesn't, so it isn't. And that's far from the only problem.

A healer isn't permitted to wear metal armor or use shields becaues "[h]er ethos requires a certain vulnerability that allows her to more fully empathize with those in their care." I have several problems with that. (1) The idea that you have to constantly personally experience something in order to understand or care about it is really frelling dumb. (In a way, I suppose that following oaths based on a stupid premise sort of fits the general picture of Healers as people who took the short bus to divine magic school. :smallsigh:) (2) Limiting the material that a healer's armor can be made of is also a stupidly roundabout way of limiting the protection it affords. (3) The party healer going down can easily lead to the whole party being screwed, so this hurts everybody. That's partly a metagame criticism that this rule makes things less fun, but the fact that getting hurt yourself can prevent you from healing others also illustrates why this restriction is stupid.

Also, it clearly should read "in her care", not "in their care". :smalltongue:

The class's fluff states that "[o]ne of the healer’s great purposes in life is to provide protection, and failing that, healing," but the Healer sucks at actually protecting people. The class offers basically no ability to do that at all. It's all about fixing bad things after they happen. For that matter, a Healer isn't really "adept ... at ... understanding the coarse, unruly thoughts of beasts", either.

Finally, the ability to mimic the effects of various healing spells once per day does little to actually help with the problem that a healer type character is eventually going to face: There are a bunch of different status-ailment-removal spells, and you're unlikely to need any given one of them on a given day. But when the time comes when you do need a particular spell, you'll quite possibly need to be able to cast it multiple times, because several members of your party got poisoned or petrified or whatever.

Frankly, back when they made the Healer class, they hadn't yet figured out how to properly design a class with a restricted spell list that keeps to a single theme. Since then, they've clued in to the fact that such a character pretty much needs to be a spontaneous caster. So the most obvious change to make to the Healer is to make it a spontaneous spellcaster, just like the Warmage and the Beguiler and the Dread Necromancer.

More broadly, I suggest the following set of changes:

1. Add the Wild Empathy class feature (as Druid).
2. Add the Turn Undead class feature (as Cleric).
3. Add proficiency with medium armor, heavy armor, and all shields (including tower shields). Remove the oaths prohibiting the use of metal armor and shields.
4. Replace the ability to prepare and cast Healer spells with the ability to spontaneously cast any spell on the Healer spell list and any Abjuration spell from the core Cleric spell list.*
5. Remove all other class features except for Healing Hands, Skill Focus (Heal), Effortless Healing. and Unicorn Companion.

* Casting a spell still requires a Wisdom score of 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a spell is still 10 + the spell's level + the Healer’s Charisma modifier. Base daily spell allotment remains the same. Bonus spells per day are still based on Wisdom.

Note that the class now requires a lot less bookkeeping. No spell preparation. Only generic spell slots for each level to keep track of, instead of prepared spells and weird 1/day spell-like abilities. (Or rather, 1/day abilities that explicitly work just like specific, named spells, but are classified as supernatural instead of spell-like for no apparent reason.) I left in the unicorn companion as something for players who don't PrC out of the class, but you could get rid of that too, depending on what standard you're trying to balance your game to and whether you think it's more weird than fitting. (I do.)


Campaign starts at lvl3, stats are 4d6 drop 1 reroll 1's, and all books plus this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15471796) are allowed. The DM is very permissive, so if there's anything that can help make the class more fun and interesting to play, I'd love to hear it. Still, it's important to me to keep the character as nonviolent as possible.
So, after following that link, my initial thought was "This campaign specifically includes a timid, gentle, peaceful LA +0 race with a Wisdom bonus, and you want to play a non-violent Wis-based caster. Why would you make this character a human instead of a rabbitfolk?"

Upon reflection, however, I'm not sure how much a Healer really gets out of a Wisdom boost. They get a bunch of spells per day already, and even if the save DCs for their spells were based on Wisdom, they don't even get any proper attack spells; how often are you going to cast healing spells on undead? Not very. So the human bonus feat and extra skill points might be worth it, but then, isn't that always the way? Humans can do anything, the crafty buggers.

Still, the rabbitfolk's Wisdom bonus, size bonus to AC (with 30 ft movement rate, a la kobolds and goblins), and general demeanor mark them as obvious potential candidates for the Healer class in my mind.


Cleric of War+Strength - Lawful good

You'll basically be as powerful as any warrior (Bull str + Free Prof. with Long Sword) and you can turn all your spells into Heals.
Sooo... Did you just not read the opening post, or are you deliberately recommending that sonofzeal play something he told us he doesn't want to play?

[sonofzeal]

Cloistered Cleric is indeed a valid alternative (except for the fact that it has no healing advantage over the normal Cleric). Still, the choice is made and I want to see what I can do with it.

The DM has approved Cha-based casting, and spontanious Cure-ing. I'm still debating feats though - Vow of Peace is perfect for the character (becomes a veritable tank), but Augment Healing is a necessity (substantial boost to signature power), and Cloudy Conjuration is too good to pass up (provides combat utility beyond mere support). I thought Vow of Poverty provided bonus feats at 1 and 3, but it actually provides them on 2 and 4, leaving me one feat short and preventing me from getting all three. On the plus side, this means I can dump Poverty. On the down side... the earliest I can get all three is lvl4 with Poverty, or lvl6 without, and the lvl4 way only works if I put off Vow of Peace for last.

Stupid "Spell Focus: Conjuration"... at least undead will be fearing my DCs, what with that and Vow of Nonviolence.


Edit - great analysis there, Devils_Advocate! I'll show that to the DM too - Wild Empathy definitelly sounds like it fits, and gives that extra little piece of utility to the class, not that it'll matter much. And yes, Rabbitkin was the one I was looking at too, but since we're going with Cha-based casting, Human's definitelly the top choice.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Might have to bite the bullet and wait for the goods at level 4. Again, you can enjoy the feeling of "healing" undead to unlife in the meantime. :smalltongue:

[Cainen]

Alright, so we've got progress - unfortunately, without Turning, the character's still going to suck at healing compared to a Cleric built for healing.

Also, you have five feats due to flaws and the bonus Human feat.