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Charity
2008-04-25, 02:59 AM
WotC latest article is up, it's all about how to read the power entries... well duh.
There are a few snippits of interest buried in it... one of which is that their power cards will suck compared to those bandied around here and on Enworld.
Don't buy wizards power cards, download and print them from here (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220953) or here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78783)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080425a



How to read Powers

Name and Level
Acid Wave Wizard Attack 19



The first line of a power description gives the name of the power, the class it’s associated with, the kind of power it is (attack or utility), and the power’s level (or the fact that it’s a class feature). In the above example, acid wave is an attack power that a wizard can choose at 19th level.

Some powers, such as the racial powers in Chapter 3 and the feat powers in Chapter 6 of the Player’s Handbook, carry different information on the right side of this line.


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Flavor Text
A wave of acid dissolves all creatures that stand before you.


The next section of a power description gives a brief explanation of what the power does, sometimes including information about what it looks or sounds like. The flavor text for acid wave appears here as an example. A power’s flavor text helps you understand what happens when you use a power and how you might describe it when you use it. You can alter this description as you like, to fit your own idea of what your power looks like. Your wizard’s magic missile spell, for example, might create phantasmal skulls that howl through the air to strike your opponent, rather than simple bolts of magical energy.


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Keywords
At-Will Martial, Weapon
Encounter Divine
Daily Acid, Arcane, Implement
A power’s keyword entry gives you important rules information about the power. The first keyword indicates whether the power is an at-will, encounter, or daily power. (One example of each type is given above.) The color used in the line containing the power name also conveys this information: At-will powers have a green bar, encounter powers have a red bar, and daily powers have a black bar.

The other keywords define the fundamental effects of a power. For instance, a power that deals acid damage is an acid effect and thus has the acid keyword. A power that has the poison keyword might deal poison damage, or it might slow the target, immobilize the target, or stun the target. But the poison keyword indicates that it’s a poison effect, and other rules in the game relate to that fact in different ways. Dwarves have a bonus to saving throws against poison effects, for example.

Keywords help to determine how, or if, a power works when the target has resistance, vulnerability, or immunity to a damage type or an effect type, or if the power interacts with existing effects. For example, a ritual that forbids teleportation could block a power that has the teleportation keyword.

Resistance or immunity to one keyword of a power does not protect a target from the power’s other effects. When damage of a power is described as more than one type, divide the damage evenly between the damage types (round up for the first damage type, round down for all others). For example, a power that deals 25 fire and thunder damage deals 13 fire damage and 12 thunder damage.

If a power allows you to choose the damage type, the power then has that keyword for feats, resistances, and any other information that applies. For example, the wizard spell elemental maw does 6d6 + Intelligence modifier damage of a type chosen from the following list: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. If you choose lightning damage, the Astral Fire feat (+1 feat bonus to damage rolls when you use powers that have the fire or radiant keywords) doesn’t add to the power’s damage, but the Raging Storm feat (+1 feat bonus to damage rolls when you use powers that have the lightning or thunder keywords) does.

Keyword Categories
Aside from usage keywords (at-will, encounter, and daily), keywords fall into four categories.

Power Source: The power sources described in the Player’s Handbook are arcane, divine, and martial. Basic attacks, racial powers, and epic destiny powers have no power source. Every class relies on a particular source of energy for the “fuel” that enables members of that class to use powers.

The three power sources associated with the classes in this book are arcane, divine, and martial.

Arcane: Drawing on magical energy that permeates the cosmos, the arcane power source can be used for a wide variety of effects, from fireballs to flight to invisibility. Warlocks and wizards, for example, use arcane magic. Each class is the representative of a different tradition of arcane study, and other traditions exist. Arcane powers are called spells.

Divine: Divine magic comes from the gods. The gods grant power to their devotees, which clerics and paladins, for example, access through prayers and litanies. Divine magic excels at healing, protection, and smiting the enemies of the gods. Divine powers are called prayers.

Martial: Martial powers are not magic in the traditional sense, although some martial powers stand well beyond the capabilities of ordinary mortals. Martial characters use their own strength and willpower to vanquish their enemies. Training and dedication replace arcane formulas and prayers to grant fighters, rangers, rogues, and warlords, among others, their power. Martial powers are called exploits.

Damage Type: Many powers create energy or a substance that deals damage to their targets.

Acid: Corrosive liquid.
Cold: Ice crystals, arctic air, or frigid liquid.
Fire: Explosive bursts, fiery rays, or simple ignition.
Force: Invisible energy formed into incredibly hard yet nonsolid shapes.
Lightning: Electrical energy.
Necrotic: Purple-black energy that deadens flesh and wounds the soul.
Poison: Toxins that reduce a creature’s hit points.
Psychic: Effects that target the mind.
Radiant: Searing white light or shimmering colors.
Thunder: Shock waves and deafening sounds.

Effect Type: Some powers are classified according to how their effects work.

Charm: Mental effects that control or influence the subject’s actions.
Conjuration: Powers that create objects or creatures of magical energy.
Fear: Effects that inspire fright.
Healing: Powers that restore hit points.
Illusion: Powers that deceive the senses or the mind.
Poison: Substances that hamper or impede a creature.
Polymorph: Effects that alter a creature’s physical form.
Reliable: If you miss when using a reliable power, you don’t expend the use of that power.
Sleep: Powers that cause sleep or unconsciousness.
Stance: A stance power lasts until the end of the encounter, for 5 minutes, or until you use another stance power.
Teleportation: Powers that transport creatures instantaneously from one location to another.
Zone: Powers that create lingering effects that extend over an area.

Accessories: These keywords identify items used with the power. If you have a proficiency bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls from your weapon or an enhancement bonus to your attack rolls and damage rolls from a magic weapon or an implement, you add that bonus when you use a power that has the associated keyword.

Implement: Many arcane spells are more effective when used in conjunction with an implement—a wizard’s staff, orb, or wand, or a warlock’s rod or wand. Many divine prayers use holy symbols as implements. To grant its benefit to a divine character, a holy symbol must represent the character’s patron deity or one of a group of deities the character serves. It’s not necessary to have an implement in order to use a power that has the implement keyword.
Weapon: Many martial powers, as well as several divine powers, can be used only if you’re wielding a weapon. (You can use an unarmed attack as your weapon.) A weapon’s reach or range determines the reach or range of a power it’s used with.

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Action Type
The next line of a power description begins with what type of action you have to take when you use the power. Most powers require a standard action. Some powers are move actions, a few are immediate interrupts or immediate reactions, a handful are minor actions or free actions, and a scant few require no action.

Trigger: Some powers come into effect only if a triggering condition occurs.


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Attack Type and Range
Following a power’s action type on the same line is the power’s attack type and its range. The four attack types are melee, ranged, close, and area. Each of these attack types (fully described in Chapter 9 of the Player’s Handbook) has rules for range and targeting.

Even though these terms are called “attack types,” they apply to utility powers as well as attack powers.


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Prerequisite or Requirement
Certain powers are usable only if you meet a predetermined condition.

Prerequisite: You must meet this provision to select this power. If you ever lose a prerequisite for a power (for example, if you use the retraining system to replace training in a skill with training in a different skill), you can’t use that power thereafter.

Requirement: You must meet this provision to use this power. You can have the power in your repertoire, but it is not available to you unless you fulfill the requirement.


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Target
If a power directly affects one or more creatures or objects, it has a “Target” or “Targets” entry.

When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your teammates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.


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Attack
Most attack powers that deal damage require you to make an attack roll. The “Attack” entry specifies the kind of attack you make and which of the target’s defenses you check against. If you have a modifier to your attack roll, that’s mentioned here as well.

If your power can attack multiple targets, you make a separate attack roll against each target.


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Hit
Every power that requires an attack roll includes a “Hit” entry, which explains what happens when an attack roll succeeds. See “Attacks and Defenses,” page 269 of the Player’s Handbook, for how to make attack rolls, how to deal damage, and how to apply various effects, including conditions and forced movement.

Ongoing damage is a fixed amount rather than an amount determined by a die roll. Ongoing damage is applied to a target each round at the start of the target’s turn until the target makes a successful saving throw.

If a “Hit” (or “Effect”) entry contains “(save ends)” or “(save ends both),” the indicated consequence of the successful attack persists until the target makes a successful saving throw.

If a hit grants you the ability to compel the target to move, whether through forced movement or teleportation, you can move it any number of squares up to the number specified (or not move it at all, if you so choose).

Some powers add modifiers to attack rolls or damage rolls. These modifiers apply to any roll of the dice, but not to ongoing damage or other static, nonvariable effects. The paladin’s wrath of the gods prayer, for example, adds her Charisma modifier to her and her allies’ damage rolls until the end of the encounter. When her cleric ally invokes flame strike, the damage equals 2d10 + Wisdom modifier + the paladin’s Charisma modifier fire damage and ongoing 5 fire damage. The ongoing damage doesn’t increase, because it’s a static effect.

Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you’ve done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed. For example, when a paladin uses divine challenge against an enemy, the enemy knows that it has been marked and that it will therefore take a penalty to attack rolls and some damage if it attacks anyone aside from the paladin.


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Miss
Sometimes the dice are against you, and you miss your target. Missing isn’t always the end of the story, however. A miss can indicate a splash effect, a glancing blow, or some other incidental effect of a power.


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Secondary Target and Secondary Attack
Some powers allow you to make secondary (or even tertiary) attacks. The power description indicates if you can make such an attack after the previous attack was a hit, if that attack was a miss, or regardless of whether the previous attack hits or misses.

Unless otherwise noted, the range of a secondary (or tertiary) attack is the same as for the attack that preceded it.


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Effect
Many powers produce effects that take place regardless of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other powers have effects that occur without an attack roll being required.

The effects of powers are as varied as the powers themselves. Some effects impose a condition on the power’s target. Other effects provide a bonus or a benefit (for you or your allies) or a penalty (for enemies). Still others change the nature of the battlefield or create something that didn’t exist a moment ago.

Two kinds of powers—conjurations and zones—produce distinctive effects that are governed by special rules.


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Sustain
If a power has a “Sustain” entry, you can keep that power active by taking a specified type of action (minor, move, or standard) during your turn. The “Sustain” entry tells you if a power has an effect that occurs when you take the action to sustain it.



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Power Cards
One of the best ways to keep track of your powers is with power cards. The D&D Character Record Sheets package contains not only character sheets, but also perforated cards to write your powers (and magic items) on. These cards contain spaces for all the important info. Here’s a playtest version of what the cards looked like; it’s what I’ve been using for awhile now. Although this is more of a work in progress, it gives you the general idea of how the information is broken out.

The cards have spots for all the information in a power entry, and an “Additional Effects” section at the bottom. In this section, you can include things like the Arcane Reach feat, which lets you fire a close arcane attack from a square other than your own.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpt_4E_powers2.jpg

Personally, I like to put my cards in sleeves (Magic: the Gathering sleeves are shown in these images) and mark my attack and damage (with critical damage/damage with sneak attack listed separately) with a wet-erase marker. That way, I can update my numbers whenever I need to.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpt_4E_powers3.jpg
There are a couple ways to keep track of your powers. You can keep your cards in a hand and discard them as you use them. I prefer to set mine up on the table, more like a game of Magic. If I use an encounter power, I flip the card upside-down until the end of the encounter. For a daily power, I flip the card around inside the sleeve so I know it’s expended when I come to the session next week.
--Logan Bonner


We've already given you a look at devils. Be sure to return Monday for a look at angels!


Told you their power cards suck.

leperkhaun
2008-04-25, 03:45 AM
WotC latest article is up, it's all about how to read the power entries... well duh.
There are a few snippits of interest buried in it... one of which is that their power cards will suck compared to those bandied around here and on Enworld.
Don't buy wizards power cards, download and print them from here (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220953) or here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78783)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080425a



How to read Powers

Name and Level
Acid Wave Wizard Attack 19



The first line of a power description gives the name of the power, the class it’s associated with, the kind of power it is (attack or utility), and the power’s level (or the fact that it’s a class feature). In the above example, acid wave is an attack power that a wizard can choose at 19th level.

Some powers, such as the racial powers in Chapter 3 and the feat powers in Chapter 6 of the Player’s Handbook, carry different information on the right side of this line.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flavor Text
A wave of acid dissolves all creatures that stand before you.


The next section of a power description gives a brief explanation of what the power does, sometimes including information about what it looks or sounds like. The flavor text for acid wave appears here as an example. A power’s flavor text helps you understand what happens when you use a power and how you might describe it when you use it. You can alter this description as you like, to fit your own idea of what your power looks like. Your wizard’s magic missile spell, for example, might create phantasmal skulls that howl through the air to strike your opponent, rather than simple bolts of magical energy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keywords
At-Will Martial, Weapon
Encounter Divine
Daily Acid, Arcane, Implement
A power’s keyword entry gives you important rules information about the power. The first keyword indicates whether the power is an at-will, encounter, or daily power. (One example of each type is given above.) The color used in the line containing the power name also conveys this information: At-will powers have a green bar, encounter powers have a red bar, and daily powers have a black bar.

The other keywords define the fundamental effects of a power. For instance, a power that deals acid damage is an acid effect and thus has the acid keyword. A power that has the poison keyword might deal poison damage, or it might slow the target, immobilize the target, or stun the target. But the poison keyword indicates that it’s a poison effect, and other rules in the game relate to that fact in different ways. Dwarves have a bonus to saving throws against poison effects, for example.

Keywords help to determine how, or if, a power works when the target has resistance, vulnerability, or immunity to a damage type or an effect type, or if the power interacts with existing effects. For example, a ritual that forbids teleportation could block a power that has the teleportation keyword.

Resistance or immunity to one keyword of a power does not protect a target from the power’s other effects. When damage of a power is described as more than one type, divide the damage evenly between the damage types (round up for the first damage type, round down for all others). For example, a power that deals 25 fire and thunder damage deals 13 fire damage and 12 thunder damage.

If a power allows you to choose the damage type, the power then has that keyword for feats, resistances, and any other information that applies. For example, the wizard spell elemental maw does 6d6 + Intelligence modifier damage of a type chosen from the following list: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. If you choose lightning damage, the Astral Fire feat (+1 feat bonus to damage rolls when you use powers that have the fire or radiant keywords) doesn’t add to the power’s damage, but the Raging Storm feat (+1 feat bonus to damage rolls when you use powers that have the lightning or thunder keywords) does.

Keyword Categories
Aside from usage keywords (at-will, encounter, and daily), keywords fall into four categories.

Power Source: The power sources described in the Player’s Handbook are arcane, divine, and martial. Basic attacks, racial powers, and epic destiny powers have no power source. Every class relies on a particular source of energy for the “fuel” that enables members of that class to use powers.

The three power sources associated with the classes in this book are arcane, divine, and martial.

Arcane: Drawing on magical energy that permeates the cosmos, the arcane power source can be used for a wide variety of effects, from fireballs to flight to invisibility. Warlocks and wizards, for example, use arcane magic. Each class is the representative of a different tradition of arcane study, and other traditions exist. Arcane powers are called spells.

Divine: Divine magic comes from the gods. The gods grant power to their devotees, which clerics and paladins, for example, access through prayers and litanies. Divine magic excels at healing, protection, and smiting the enemies of the gods. Divine powers are called prayers.

Martial: Martial powers are not magic in the traditional sense, although some martial powers stand well beyond the capabilities of ordinary mortals. Martial characters use their own strength and willpower to vanquish their enemies. Training and dedication replace arcane formulas and prayers to grant fighters, rangers, rogues, and warlords, among others, their power. Martial powers are called exploits.

Damage Type: Many powers create energy or a substance that deals damage to their targets.

Acid: Corrosive liquid.
Cold: Ice crystals, arctic air, or frigid liquid.
Fire: Explosive bursts, fiery rays, or simple ignition.
Force: Invisible energy formed into incredibly hard yet nonsolid shapes.
Lightning: Electrical energy.
Necrotic: Purple-black energy that deadens flesh and wounds the soul.
Poison: Toxins that reduce a creature’s hit points.
Psychic: Effects that target the mind.
Radiant: Searing white light or shimmering colors.
Thunder: Shock waves and deafening sounds.

Effect Type: Some powers are classified according to how their effects work.

Charm: Mental effects that control or influence the subject’s actions.
Conjuration: Powers that create objects or creatures of magical energy.
Fear: Effects that inspire fright.
Healing: Powers that restore hit points.
Illusion: Powers that deceive the senses or the mind.
Poison: Substances that hamper or impede a creature.
Polymorph: Effects that alter a creature’s physical form.
Reliable: If you miss when using a reliable power, you don’t expend the use of that power.
Sleep: Powers that cause sleep or unconsciousness.
Stance: A stance power lasts until the end of the encounter, for 5 minutes, or until you use another stance power.
Teleportation: Powers that transport creatures instantaneously from one location to another.
Zone: Powers that create lingering effects that extend over an area.

Accessories: These keywords identify items used with the power. If you have a proficiency bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls from your weapon or an enhancement bonus to your attack rolls and damage rolls from a magic weapon or an implement, you add that bonus when you use a power that has the associated keyword.

Implement: Many arcane spells are more effective when used in conjunction with an implement—a wizard’s staff, orb, or wand, or a warlock’s rod or wand. Many divine prayers use holy symbols as implements. To grant its benefit to a divine character, a holy symbol must represent the character’s patron deity or one of a group of deities the character serves. It’s not necessary to have an implement in order to use a power that has the implement keyword.
Weapon: Many martial powers, as well as several divine powers, can be used only if you’re wielding a weapon. (You can use an unarmed attack as your weapon.) A weapon’s reach or range determines the reach or range of a power it’s used with.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Action Type
The next line of a power description begins with what type of action you have to take when you use the power. Most powers require a standard action. Some powers are move actions, a few are immediate interrupts or immediate reactions, a handful are minor actions or free actions, and a scant few require no action.

Trigger: Some powers come into effect only if a triggering condition occurs.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attack Type and Range
Following a power’s action type on the same line is the power’s attack type and its range. The four attack types are melee, ranged, close, and area. Each of these attack types (fully described in Chapter 9 of the Player’s Handbook) has rules for range and targeting.

Even though these terms are called “attack types,” they apply to utility powers as well as attack powers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prerequisite or Requirement
Certain powers are usable only if you meet a predetermined condition.

Prerequisite: You must meet this provision to select this power. If you ever lose a prerequisite for a power (for example, if you use the retraining system to replace training in a skill with training in a different skill), you can’t use that power thereafter.

Requirement: You must meet this provision to use this power. You can have the power in your repertoire, but it is not available to you unless you fulfill the requirement.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Target
If a power directly affects one or more creatures or objects, it has a “Target” or “Targets” entry.

When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your teammates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attack
Most attack powers that deal damage require you to make an attack roll. The “Attack” entry specifies the kind of attack you make and which of the target’s defenses you check against. If you have a modifier to your attack roll, that’s mentioned here as well.

If your power can attack multiple targets, you make a separate attack roll against each target.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hit
Every power that requires an attack roll includes a “Hit” entry, which explains what happens when an attack roll succeeds. See “Attacks and Defenses,” page 269 of the Player’s Handbook, for how to make attack rolls, how to deal damage, and how to apply various effects, including conditions and forced movement.

Ongoing damage is a fixed amount rather than an amount determined by a die roll. Ongoing damage is applied to a target each round at the start of the target’s turn until the target makes a successful saving throw.

If a “Hit” (or “Effect”) entry contains “(save ends)” or “(save ends both),” the indicated consequence of the successful attack persists until the target makes a successful saving throw.

If a hit grants you the ability to compel the target to move, whether through forced movement or teleportation, you can move it any number of squares up to the number specified (or not move it at all, if you so choose).

Some powers add modifiers to attack rolls or damage rolls. These modifiers apply to any roll of the dice, but not to ongoing damage or other static, nonvariable effects. The paladin’s wrath of the gods prayer, for example, adds her Charisma modifier to her and her allies’ damage rolls until the end of the encounter. When her cleric ally invokes flame strike, the damage equals 2d10 + Wisdom modifier + the paladin’s Charisma modifier fire damage and ongoing 5 fire damage. The ongoing damage doesn’t increase, because it’s a static effect.

Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you’ve done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed. For example, when a paladin uses divine challenge against an enemy, the enemy knows that it has been marked and that it will therefore take a penalty to attack rolls and some damage if it attacks anyone aside from the paladin.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miss
Sometimes the dice are against you, and you miss your target. Missing isn’t always the end of the story, however. A miss can indicate a splash effect, a glancing blow, or some other incidental effect of a power.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secondary Target and Secondary Attack
Some powers allow you to make secondary (or even tertiary) attacks. The power description indicates if you can make such an attack after the previous attack was a hit, if that attack was a miss, or regardless of whether the previous attack hits or misses.

Unless otherwise noted, the range of a secondary (or tertiary) attack is the same as for the attack that preceded it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effect
Many powers produce effects that take place regardless of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other powers have effects that occur without an attack roll being required.

The effects of powers are as varied as the powers themselves. Some effects impose a condition on the power’s target. Other effects provide a bonus or a benefit (for you or your allies) or a penalty (for enemies). Still others change the nature of the battlefield or create something that didn’t exist a moment ago.

Two kinds of powers—conjurations and zones—produce distinctive effects that are governed by special rules.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sustain
If a power has a “Sustain” entry, you can keep that power active by taking a specified type of action (minor, move, or standard) during your turn. The “Sustain” entry tells you if a power has an effect that occurs when you take the action to sustain it.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Power Cards
One of the best ways to keep track of your powers is with power cards. The D&D Character Record Sheets package contains not only character sheets, but also perforated cards to write your powers (and magic items) on. These cards contain spaces for all the important info. Here’s a playtest version of what the cards looked like; it’s what I’ve been using for awhile now. Although this is more of a work in progress, it gives you the general idea of how the information is broken out.

The cards have spots for all the information in a power entry, and an “Additional Effects” section at the bottom. In this section, you can include things like the Arcane Reach feat, which lets you fire a close arcane attack from a square other than your own.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpt_4E_powers2.jpg

Personally, I like to put my cards in sleeves (Magic: the Gathering sleeves are shown in these images) and mark my attack and damage (with critical damage/damage with sneak attack listed separately) with a wet-erase marker. That way, I can update my numbers whenever I need to.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpt_4E_powers3.jpg
There are a couple ways to keep track of your powers. You can keep your cards in a hand and discard them as you use them. I prefer to set mine up on the table, more like a game of Magic. If I use an encounter power, I flip the card upside-down until the end of the encounter. For a daily power, I flip the card around inside the sleeve so I know it’s expended when I come to the session next week.
--Logan Bonner


We've already given you a look at devils. Be sure to return Monday for a look at angels!


Told you their power cards suck.

those cards are also the playtest versions, which means that its probably just the layout with out any graphics or anythign else.

anyway it would not suprise me if the ones included in the game are not much better than that, but i would suspect that wizards and 3rd party companies will be making super duper powercards (pre printed with specific abilities and spells and all decked out with graphics).

Kurald Galain
2008-04-25, 04:26 AM
So, they're not turning D&D into a MMORPG, they're turning D&D into Magic: the Gathering :smallbiggrin:

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-25, 06:05 AM
Hmm...anyone noticed it spoke of a retraining system? Interrrrrestiiing....

Starbuck_II
2008-04-25, 06:18 AM
They finally defined that "ally/allies" does not include "you". A lot of people were wondering about this (since Tome of Battle I think).

nerulean
2008-04-25, 06:27 AM
They finally defined that "ally/allies" does not include "you". A lot of people were wondering about this (since Tome of Battle I think).

While it's good that they've clarified, it sucks that there's a distinction. Why shouldn't something that benefits a willing target be able to benefit the caster, from a purely fluff/common sense point of view? And from a more statistical point of view, it makes playing a buffer even less appealing, as you watch the rest of your party get progressively more and more effective thanks to your effort, while you remain at the same low power level you began the encounter at.

Xefas
2008-04-25, 06:51 AM
And from a more statistical point of view, it makes playing a buffer even less appealing, as you watch the rest of your party get progressively more and more effective thanks to your effort, while you remain at the same low power level you began the encounter at.

I think that's less "statistical" and more a matter of preference. For instance, this kind of situation is very appealing to me, and that's why I'm planning on playing a Tactical Warlord as my first character. I couldn't really care less about my own performance, so long as I can hit often enough to activate my powers.

The idea of shifting my allies around and beefing them up to more effectively do my bidding is way more satisfying to me than any other role. That said, I'd be less enthusiastic if 4th edition didn't take the philosophy of "Actually participate in the battle to buff your allies instead of standing in the back and yelling 'And I buff, and I buff, and I buff, and I heal". That approach, while not particularly realistic (or even sensible) is a massive step in the 'fun' direction (in my opinion).

SamTheCleric
2008-04-25, 07:45 AM
If you don't count as an ally... Bless doesn't affect you, only your allies. Lame! :smalltongue:

Not a great preview... we knew how to read :)

I like all the different types of energy though.

Siosilvar
2008-04-25, 08:08 AM
They've got all the same types of energy, but they added poison back as HP damage, like 1st or 2nd edition.
Necrotic = Negative Energy
Radiant = Positive Energy
Thunder = Sonic

I think everyone here has already said what I think.

SofS
2008-04-25, 08:10 AM
I rather like how this is laid out. It seems like a solid success for their design philosophy so far. It's simple, concise, and intuitive enough that explaining it was sort of unnecessary. If nothing else, being able to shuffle one's cards and draw them face-down at the beginning of combat should make for fun chaotic characters.

I would like to know why they're sticking with the colour-coded hierarchy of morality. Necrotic energy is "purple-black", while radiant energy is white light or a rainbow (which presumably includes violet). So long as no one complains about changing this at the table, though, it's a non-issue.

Matthew
2008-04-25, 08:12 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1405/1291306909_13bfa5e12e.jpg

"You finally really did it! You Maniacs! You turned it into Magic the Gathering! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"

Ah well, whatever. More grist for the D20 2e wheel.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-25, 08:14 AM
Was that sarcastic or serious? Gettin' hard to tell.

Malacandra
2008-04-25, 08:16 AM
They've got all the same types of energy, but they added poison back as HP damage, like 1st or 2nd edition.

¿Que? Usually poison was a save-or-die proposition in 1st Ed at least. EGG was at some pains to explain why this should be so (whereas a sword to the jugular vein only subtracted some hit points), although in retrospect it seems hard to justify why a possibly-poisonous bite, sting or stab shouldn't just contribute to the general process of wearing down and using up of good luck that the bulk of a character's hit points represents.

Douglas
2008-04-25, 08:39 AM
If you don't count as an ally... Bless doesn't affect you, only your allies. Lame! :smalltongue:
Unless they word it as "you and allies", which is specifically mentioned as a possibility. This doesn't actually change any mechanics, it's just a more precise definition explicitly stated to ensure consistency of wording.

Charity
2008-04-25, 09:17 AM
"You finally really did it! You Maniacs! You turned it into Magic the Gathering! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"

Ah well, whatever. More grist for the D20 2e wheel.

I for one welcome our new monkey overlords.
http://downloadsimpsons.com/files/insect_overlords.jpg

The cards seem like a good idea, I know they'll be some knee jerk protests, (not you Matt matey) but as a gaming device stuff written on cards has been used for many years, I like to hvae my spells on handy dandy cards for example.

Mewtarthio
2008-04-25, 09:37 AM
They've got all the same types of energy, but they added poison back as HP damage, like 1st or 2nd edition.
Necrotic = Negative Energy
Radiant = Positive Energy
Thunder = Sonic

I think everyone here has already said what I think.

It seems a little odd to have thunder and lightning as separate damage types. Very, very frightening, even...

As a side note, I like the change from "negative energy" to "necrotic." The term "necrotic" is a lot clearer: It immediately evokes images of flesh decaying on a still-living soldier's body. I imagine that wandering through a place that's been ravaged by a powerful necromancer, one could assume that everything had been dead for weeks, when really the necromancer has just finished up and is RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!! sorry

Starsinger
2008-04-25, 11:02 AM
As a side note, I like the change from "negative energy" to "necrotic." The term "necrotic" is a lot clearer: It immediately evokes images of flesh decaying on a still-living soldier's body.

More importantly, Negative Energy conjures up images of monsters dressed like hippies saying "Whoa, dude, your negative energy is like, totally harshing my mellow."

Artanis
2008-04-25, 11:43 AM
It's obvious that they went all-out to make things as clear-cut as humanly possible so as to avoid confusion and debates, which I suppose is a good thing since IMO it's better to err on the side of long-winded clarity than to err on the side of confusing brevity. All in all, it looks pretty neat.

Crow
2008-04-25, 06:18 PM
Good lord. I'm not a fan of the cards at all, no matter what they look like. I like my stuff organized neatly on my character sheet, not spread all over the table in front of me =)

Luckily, we can just write what powers we have and a short description of what it does, as we did in ages past.

edit: I wonder if they will sell packs of "power cards" with each new supplement? Separately of course.

Artanis
2008-04-25, 06:22 PM
With ultra-rare foil versions, of course.


*grumbles about the demise of Fallen Empires*

EvilElitest
2008-04-25, 06:28 PM
So, they're not turning D&D into a MMORPG, they're turning D&D into Magic: the Gathering :smallbiggrin:

Video game elements (Not MMO,s more like JRPGs actually, or other such games), war games and cards.
What next?

Don't tell me


Anyways, i actually am a big supporter of the cards, so say it loud, EE supports the cards in theory. However i really really really doubt wotC will use them correclty
from
EE

Starsinger
2008-04-25, 06:30 PM
Video game elements (Not MMO,s more like JRPGs actually, or other such games), war games and cards.
What next?
from
EE

Maybe D&D'll finally turn into a good game :smalltongue:

Reel On, Love
2008-04-25, 06:30 PM
Video game elements (Not MMO,s more like JRPGs actually, or other such games), war games and cards.
What next?
from
EE

D&D involves moving little figures around and rolling dice.
Monopoly involve smoving little figures around and rolling dice.

Coincidence... or conspiracy?

EvilElitest
2008-04-25, 06:31 PM
Starsong, D&D is a good game actually, its just the way its been handled



D&D involves moving little figures around and rolling dice.
Monopoly involve smoving little figures around and rolling dice.

Coincidence... or conspiracy?

I knew it





I actually like hte card idea, i really do. I just don't think WotC will pull it of right
from
EE

Rutee
2008-04-25, 06:34 PM
..I wonder if the "You only pick one modifier" will help with Metamagic abuse?

Illiterate Scribe
2008-04-25, 06:36 PM
The fact that force damage has now been defined, basically, as bludgeoning/slashing/piercing things answers an inevitable question (vis a vis - what, pray tell, is force damage), but it still doesn't sit comfortably with me. Like, how are they different.

Tough_Tonka
2008-04-25, 09:33 PM
Was that sarcastic or serious? Gettin' hard to tell.

I regret to inform you that there is no longer a difference between the two.

Thinker
2008-04-26, 12:44 AM
Video game elements (Not MMO,s more like JRPGs actually, or other such games), war games and cards.
What next?

Don't tell me


Anyways, i actually am a big supporter of the cards, so say it loud, EE supports the cards in theory. However i really really really doubt wotC will use them correclty
from
EE

Weren't you trying to get WoTC to give you a job based on your essays? I don't think criticizing your future employers will help you get ahead in life :smallwink:

Rutee
2008-04-26, 12:47 AM
I regret to inform you that there is no longer a difference between the two.

Divide by Zero error? Ohshi-

EvilElitest
2008-04-26, 09:11 AM
Weren't you trying to get WoTC to give you a job based on your essays? I don't think criticizing your future employers will help you get ahead in life :smallwink:

I doubt my future employers integrity. If they hired me i'd hope to limit the damage 4E could do. True if they'd hired me i'd have to shut up about what i don't like about 4E (60 %) but i'd at least try to keep the cards from being just another money making idea and try to make it worth something
from
EE

Enlong
2008-04-27, 03:16 PM
Um... aren't the cards just an option? If you really hate the idea of using the Cards, then why not just write your powers down on... paper, maybe?

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 03:23 PM
Um... aren't the cards just an option? If you really hate the idea of using the Cards, then why not just write your powers down on... paper, maybe?

the general idea is still the same, the whole leaching money thing
Personally i think WotC is doing too much too fast
from
EE

tyckspoon
2008-04-27, 03:30 PM
the general idea is still the same, the whole leaching money thing
Personally i think WotC is doing too much too fast
from
EE

Too much too fast and leeching money with.. exactly the same kind of playing aid that has existed since TSR was publishing it? You can find old decks of spell cards around pretty easily, I'm sure.

Reel On, Love
2008-04-27, 03:46 PM
I doubt my future employers integrity. If they hired me i'd hope to limit the damage 4E could do. True if they'd hired me i'd have to shut up about what i don't like about 4E (60 %) but i'd at least try to keep the cards from being just another money making idea and try to make it worth something
from
EE

Dude what the hell. How much money do you think WotC expects to make off these cards exactly?

Hey, you know what I use cards for? Crusader maneuvers granted/maneuver recovery in 3.5. I've known a guy who used cards.
We made those ourselves, using notecards (well, ragged strips of paper, in my case). It is very easy. Anyone who wants cards and doesn't want to buy cards can make their own. Anyone who pays WotC money for power cards is someone who finds it more convenient to just shell out a little cash then to spend time hand-writing their own, or typing them up and printing them. How is WotC offering that option a bad thing?

I'm sure you can find enough things to have a legitimate beef with to not need to go "OMG, THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY BY SELLING US CARDS!!!"

Speaking of which, what makes you think they're going to sell cards? They have "official" ToB maneuver cards on the WotC website, y'know. Those don't cost a cent.

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 03:50 PM
Dude what the hell. How much money do you think WotC expects to make off these cards exactly?

Hey, you know what I use cards for? Crusader maneuvers granted/maneuver recovery in 3.5. I've known a guy who used cards.
We made those ourselves, using notecards (well, ragged strips of paper, in my case). It is very easy. Anyone who wants cards and doesn't want to buy cards can make their own. Anyone who pays WotC money for power cards is someone who finds it more convenient to just shell out a little cash then to spend time hand-writing their own, or typing them up and printing them. How is WotC offering that option a bad thing?

I'm sure you can find enough things to have a legitimate beef with to not need to go "OMG, THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY BY SELLING US CARDS!!!"



So you didn't read anything else i wrote about what i said? Wow, so this isn't worth responding too:smallsigh: , come back when you've read everything i've actually had to say on this thread




Speaking of which, what makes you think they're going to sell cards? They have "official" ToB maneuver cards on the WotC website, y'know. Those don't cost a cent.

Its TSR, i really doubt they will give up a chance to get more cash
from
EE

Reel On, Love
2008-04-27, 04:07 PM
So you didn't read anything else i wrote about what i said? Wow, so this isn't worth responding too:smallsigh: , come back when you've read everything i've actually had to say on this thread

I read everything you wrote. It, uh... it amounts to "I kinda like cards BUT OMG WOTC MIGHT TRY TO MAKE MONEY OFF THEM! THEY ARE TEH EVIL! $E IS $ATAN!11111onesd,mfnkjlf;;,,ohgodi'msolonely."
Okay, not quite that bad, but it's "it's 4E related, so it's automatically going to be bad".


Its TSR, i really doubt they will give up a chance to get more cash
from
EE
It's actually NOT TSR, It's WotC. And charging for everything isn't the way to make the most cash in the long run. If they were gonna charge for cards, they'd have tried charging for the ToB cards.

Odds are, the cards will be free. If they're not free, they won't be very expensive (or no one will buy them), and will be bought by people who don't want to bother making their own note cards--purely optional, totally unnecessary, mild convenience for some people. If you think WotC will somehow screw that up, you don't really think they want to make money, you just think they're all idiots who want to make money but have no idea how.

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 04:17 PM
I read everything you wrote. It, uh... it amounts to "I kinda like cards BUT OMG WOTC MIGHT TRY TO MAKE MONEY OFF THEM! THEY ARE TEH EVIL! $E IS $ATAN!11111onesd,mfnkjlf;;,,ohgodi'msolonely."
Okay, not quite that bad, but it's "it's 4E related, so it's automatically going to be bad".

Lying or not doing your homework is normally bad form



[Anyways, i actually am a big supporter of the cards, so say it loud, EE supports the cards in theory.QUOTE]
amazing what reading can do for you



[QUOTE]

It's actually NOT TSR, It's WotC. And charging for everything isn't the way to make the most cash in the long run. If they were gonna charge for cards, they'd have tried charging for the ToB cards.
your right, i wanted to say Hasbro/WotC

The edition isn't out yet, they aren't going to charge yet



Odds are, the cards will be free. If they're not free, they won't be very expensive (or no one will buy them), and will be bought by people who don't want to bother making their own note cards--purely optional, totally unnecessary, mild convenience for some people.


why would they not use them to make money. I mean look at minatures or even magic. It is a good business and by making packs of cards to seel would make sense. I'm not foolish enough to think that they will make them be free.

However there are two ways to manage cards

1) Sell them along with the books, for example if we did 3E cards i could sell three decks (feats, items, monesters or something) so people know what they are buying
2) randomized decks. or something like that

I doubt they will be made for free because it costs money to make them in mass.




If you think WotC will somehow screw that up, you don't really think they want to make money, you just think they're all idiots who want to make money but have no idea how.
I never said WotC are idiots, at least not on this issue. I just know that their first prioity is $$$. They are a company after all
from
EE

Farmer42
2008-04-27, 04:34 PM
I have to ask, EE, do you see the GameMastery cards that Paizo publishes as evil and money grubbing? Because they do charge for those, and they use a model not dissimilar to a CCG, unlike what we've seen with the power cards, which are just plain, generic card that have empty spaces for you, the end user, to fill in the relevant information. Now, if they release filled in cards, which it sounds like you're assuming then that might be a valid complaint. But at this stage, you're criticizing WotC based on speculation, speculation that has no backing in empirical evidence.

Yahzi
2008-04-27, 05:17 PM
If they start selling the cards in sealed random booster packs... you'll all rue the day you made fun of poor old EE!

:smallbiggrin:

Crow
2008-04-27, 05:29 PM
Rue it hard :smallwink:

EE and Reel On, Love are both right and they're both wrong...more than likely.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the cards available for download to D&D Insider subscribers.

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 07:41 PM
I have to ask, EE, do you see the GameMastery cards that Paizo publishes as evil and money grubbing? Because they do charge for those, and they use a model not dissimilar to a CCG, unlike what we've seen with the power cards, which are just plain, generic card that have empty spaces for you, the end user, to fill in the relevant information. Now, if they release filled in cards, which it sounds like you're assuming then that might be a valid complaint. But at this stage, you're criticizing WotC based on speculation, speculation that has no backing in empirical evidence.

Actually it seems Reel is taking complaints out of proportion, because as i said i love the idea (see quote above). However i am rather distrustful of WotC's method. randomized bolster packs is something i could see them doing, because it makes more money that way. Now if Wotc doesn't do this, i'll be pleasantly surprised and quite happy with WotC. Remember i didn't condemn WotC for doing something, i expressed worries about how they were doing to do it. If they do correctly show off the cards, i'll be elated.


yes, Yahzi, when that happens i'll be like Winston Churchill
/godwin
from
EE

Reel On, Love
2008-04-27, 07:52 PM
Crow: that's a possibility, but unlikely. The cards just aren't worth enough, precisely because you can replicate them with a note card and a minute per card.


EE, you apparently DO think that WotC is made of idiots. You can see them releasing the cards in randomized booster packs? REALLY?

So tell me, who'd buy them?

HINT: no one. The cards are a convenience tool, and this would absolutely kill the convenience factor.

Just charging as much as you can for everything is not the way to make more money. If you really wouldn't be surprised by randomized booster packs of power cards, either you have no idea about the very basics of economics, or you think WotC doesn't.

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 08:02 PM
EE, you apparently DO think that WotC is made of idiots. You can see them releasing the cards in randomized booster packs? REALLY?

So tell me, who'd buy them?

well it isn't like WotC owns to other products taht are sold in randomized packs, one of which is also cards. That actually does make money you are aware.



HINT: no one. The cards are a convenience tool, and this would absolutely kill the convenience factor.
Not really. if you have a card for ever power/abilty/monster/item ect. then you could have randomized quite easily

As i actually said, and not want your over zealous interpretation of what i said reveals, i like the idea and hope WotC will do it well. I don't trust WotC when it comes to thinks i like and my wallet however, so we shall wait and see
from
EE

Nebo_
2008-04-27, 08:13 PM
well it isn't like WotC owns to other products taht are sold in randomized packs, one of which is also cards. That actually does make money you are aware.

Not really. if you have a card for ever power/abilty/monster/item ect. then you could have randomized quite easily


It's almost as if you don't know what these cards are for. They're abilities that everyone can use, not just if you have the card. This is an RPG, not a trading card game.

Wizard: Charge it!
Fighter: I can't, that card wasn't in my booster pack!

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 08:16 PM
It's almost as if you don't know what these cards are for. They're abilities that everyone can use, not just if you have the card. This is an RPG, not a trading card game.

Wizard: Charge it!
Fighter: I can't, that card wasn't in my booster pack!

They are additional rules, you don't need them to play the game however. I hope that WotC does the right thing and reveal them by catogory (as i said, i love the idea) i'm still rather mistrustful
from
EE

tyckspoon
2008-04-27, 08:19 PM
They are additional rules, you don't need them to play the game however.

See, the second half of this sentence is correct (uh.. with a little editing. You don't need them (implied 'the cards') to play the game. You certainly do need the text of the powers on said cards to play.) The first half is not. We're talking about cards that would be reprints of the relevant text for class powers, IIRC. Those are going to be critical rules for 4E. They're also going to be in the PHB. This bizarre future you envision where major parts of the ruleset are sold as randomized packs is one of the most absurd things I've read on these forums today.

Reel On, Love
2008-04-27, 08:22 PM
well it isn't like WotC owns to other products taht are sold in randomized packs, one of which is also cards. That actually does make money you are aware.
POWER CARDS ARE NOT A COLLECTIBLE CARD GAME.
They exist only to help you at the gaming table.


Not really. if you have a card for ever power/abilty/monster/item ect. then you could have randomized quite easily
No, you couldn't.
Why? Because that's not convenient. The only purpose of these cards is to make tabletop play a little easier. Their alternatives are going without, which is NOT a problem, and making your own, which takes a note card and two minutes per card. That means that if you want to sell them, you can't charge much for them. Including them as part of D&D insider is a possibility (since you can build up lots of convenient things, and the sum package will be worthwhile). Selling them is barely possible, it'd have to be really cheap and distributed online.
Randomized booster packs? No one's that dumb.


As i actually said, and not want your over zealous interpretation of what i said reveals, i like the idea and hope WotC will do it well. I don't trust WotC when it comes to thinks i like and my wallet however, so we shall wait and see
from
EE
Evil, WHO WOULD BUY randomized booster packs of these things? Who would bother going to the trouble and expense? Nobody. If WotC wants money, they are going to do it by making a product people will want to buy. Making randomized booster packs would be the equivalent of charging a thousand bucks per 4E book: it wouldn't actually make you any money.

If you seriously think this is a remote possibility, you are either totally clueless about how economics work and why people buy and sell things, or you think that WotC is.

WotC wants the contents of your wallet. To get them, it has to either hire men to mug you (counterproductive, they'd cost more than they'd bring back), or make something that you want to buy. Why on earth would they try to market something as completely and toally unwanted as what you're suggesting?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-04-27, 08:32 PM
I think that a pack of nicely organised, purty organisational cards is a good thing. I also think that that there is almost no chance that they will be sold as randomised decks.
a) Take a look at the items that they sell that are randomised. M:tG is a collecting card game, D&D power cards are not.
b) As Reel On, Love said, it goes against the idea behind the cards; they're a convienance aid.

Rutee
2008-04-27, 08:37 PM
Huh. ToB Cards were on the site? Then the 4e ones miiiight be mixed in with the online package thing, but either way, they're just notecards. I write out plenty for class, I'm sure a few to cover my character's abilities will be easy.

Reel On, Love
2008-04-27, 08:37 PM
Huh. ToB Cards were on the site? Then the 4e ones miiiight be mixed in with the online package thing, but either way, they're just notecards. I write out plenty for class, I'm sure a few to cover my character's abilities will be easy.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 08:38 PM
calm down reel, the randomized idea was just an example. A badly though out one i admit, but an example none the less


As i said before, and you seem unable to acknowledge is that i like the idea of hte cards and i think that it is a good idea. I don't know if WotC is going to go about it in the right way however. They might, and i will be happy. Or they might now



See, the second half of this sentence is correct (uh.. with a little editing. You don't need them (implied 'the cards') to play the game. You certainly do need the text of the powers on said cards to play.) The first half is not. We're talking about cards that would be reprints of the relevant text for class powers, IIRC. Those are going to be critical rules for 4E.
I mean the phyical cards, not the info on them

Also that isn't the dumbest thing you've seen on these forums today, post 77 on this thread is

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76776&page=3
from
EE

Reel On, Love
2008-04-27, 08:44 PM
calm down reel, the randomized idea was just an example. A badly though out one i admit, but an example none the less

One that you were for some reason insisting made any damn sense. You were talking like you seriously thought WotC was going to sell randomized booster packs of cards of powers and stuff, despite the fact that this would be the stupidest decision the company has ever made and they'd need to drink themselves blind on wood alcohol to make it. I guess their motive would be just to spite you.


As i said before, and you seem unable to acknowledge is that i like the idea of hte cards and i think that it is a good idea. I don't know if WotC is going to go about it in the right way however. They might, and i will be happy. Or they might now
Yes, I get that you like them. But your only suggesting for going about it the wrong way so far has been bewilderingly nonsensical.

How could WotC do this wrong? Either they charge a very small fee for them (not their best option, but viable), they include them as part of D&D Insider (makes sense), or they just release'em for free on the website. All of these options are viable; the first would be more of a hassle to set up than is probably worth it. The only options that make sense, from WotC's standpoint, are D&D Insider or putting'em on the website (for which there's precedent with the ToB maneuver cards).

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 09:11 PM
Yes, I get that you like them. But your only suggesting for going about it the wrong way so far has been bewilderingly nonsensical.
no less so than your accusation that i'm expressing concern out of some anti 4E plot



How could WotC do this wrong? Either they charge a very small fee for them (not their best option, but viable), they include them as part of D&D Insider (makes sense), or they just release'em for free on the website. All of these options are viable; the first would be more of a hassle to set up than is probably worth it. The only options that make sense, from WotC's standpoint, are D&D Insider or putting'em on the website (for which there's precedent with the ToB maneuver cards).
There are many ways they could do it wrong or at least in an upsetting way

For example, if you need to subscribe to the internet 4E thing (which WotC has stated you don't have to do to play the game) it could be very annoying for non internet players). Not a screw up, but an annoyance. Or they could simply make a mistake and not make them right. Who knows? Maybe they might make them too vague, or too specific. Maybe they won't handle it properly in management. My main point is i'm afraid of WotC not implimenting them correctly in the game. I do hope they do however because i think it could be great for the game. Call me a pessimist
from
EE

Nebo_
2008-04-27, 09:29 PM
Call me a pessimist


You're a pessimist. Is there anything WotC can do without you complaining bitterly about it?

Farmer42
2008-04-27, 09:37 PM
Or they could simply make a mistake and not make them right. Who knows? Maybe they might make them too vague, or too specific. Maybe they won't handle it properly in management.

I'm afraid I don't get this. The idea, and the entire concept of the power cards, as we have seen them are only two ways, one, which is all we have seen of the 4e ones, is a blank card, for the player to fill. Yes that's vague. It's supposed to be, hence them being blank. The other, which is from ToB, is explicit. They literally are just a sheet of paper with the relevant text printed on them. The entire thing, strait out of the book. Neither of these examples supports your concept in any way, shape or form. If they hypothetically offer cards with the powers printed on them as insider content, they aren't hurting anyone. that's the sort of premium content that would help sell the service, and it doesn't gimp any play who won't shell for the service. Yes, we used to get that for free from them, yes it sucks a little, but it is not hurting anyone.

Crow
2008-04-27, 09:54 PM
Crow: that's a possibility, but unlikely. The cards just aren't worth enough, precisely because you can replicate them with a note card and a minute per card.

I don't see how that makes it unlikely that they would do such a thing. We already know that a lot of the content we currently get for free on the wizards site is going to be rolled into D&D Insider, which at some point will have a charge attached to it.

Nice little power cards with relevant info already filled in that you can download and print out isn't exactly a bear for wizards to produce as each supplement comes out. In fact, it's a perfect candidate for "online content". Just like premade adventures and maps that you can download and print out. You can replicate adventures and maps also, but that doesn't mean they won't be something offered as part of the package...

...which we know almost nothing about. All I am saying is that it's a little more likely than you think.

EvilElitest
2008-04-27, 09:55 PM
You're a pessimist. Is there anything WotC can do without you complaining bitterly about it?

Book of Exalted Deed
from
EE

Kurald Galain
2008-04-28, 06:29 AM
..I wonder if the "You only pick one modifier" will help with Metamagic abuse?

I believe the enworld page states that metamagic will no longer exist in 4E.

Although I certainly hope casters get the ability to keep multiple spells active; it seems that nearly every spell that actually has a duration requires you to spend a swift action each turn to keep it going, and you only get one swift action.

Nebo_
2008-04-28, 06:55 AM
I believe the enworld page states that metamagic will no longer exist in 4E.

Although I certainly hope casters get the ability to keep multiple spells active; it seems that nearly every spell that actually has a duration requires you to spend a swift action each turn to keep it going, and you only get one swift action.

Actually, you can have up to three swift actions. You can always trade down:

Standard > Move > Swift

Pirate_King
2008-04-28, 10:10 AM
I'm afraid I don't get this. The idea, and the entire concept of the power cards, as we have seen them are only two ways, one, which is all we have seen of the 4e ones, is a blank card, for the player to fill. Yes that's vague. It's supposed to be, hence them being blank.

Thats how I understood it They're basically character sheet extensions, arent they? I mean, I already put my spells on note cards to keep track of what I've got prepared for the day, and keep from digging through various spell descriptions. It's just providing a more organized extension, much better than the tiny lines they used to give you for spells. Isn't it just like that?