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seedjar
2008-04-26, 11:11 AM
Are there any builds/classes that stand out as working particularly well with other PCs of their type? Like, one PC with fighter build foo does X damage on average, but two PCs coordinating their actions can do 3X with the same build, etc. Please don't say wizards, because I'm already aware that the wizard has within it almost more customization options than the base class system at large; I need something that's easier to start out with.
I'm starting a game for some new players. I don't want them to get hung up on the hard stuff so I'd like to push them towards character concepts/builds that will be easy to learn the rules with. We'll be playing with "guest PCs" from my main game as a way of keeping the party properly supported and balanced, so I'm free to have them all make bruiser types or something.
The books we're working with include the Complete collection, Eberron, the Dracominicon, the environment series (Dungeonscape, Frostburn, etc.,) psionics, and the BoED/BoVD. Sailors will probably be the general theme for the group (so I can integrate them with my other group later on) but I've got a few other starting options to present to them; farmhands, spies, a band of nomadic rangers, or students/staff/faculty at a university. So, there's a pretty broad space for interpretation.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
~Joe

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-26, 11:43 AM
The two daggersomethings in C. Scoundrel were made to work together.

A Sacred Prostitute and a caster are scary.

Those are pretty much the only combos, I believe.

Emperor Tippy
2008-04-26, 12:07 PM
Incantatrix's. 2 is more than twice as powerful as 1, and 3 is almost twice as powerful as 2. When you can get cooperative metamagic to be really useful. Add in a Wizard/Incantatrix 10/ Spell Guard of Silvermoon 4/Archmage 1 so that personal, defensive, buffs can be made touch range (and arcane reached, and then coop chained and coop persisted) and you can have even more fun.

Roderick_BR
2008-04-26, 12:09 PM
The basic stuff: A warrior type, and someone that can buff him, but that's not what you want.
Opportunist based abilities (hitting an enemy makes an ally gain attacks of opportunities to the ally). There are some feats and classes that gain something like that in complete warrior or adventurer.
There's a feat on complete warrior or adventurer that increases the +2 bonus from flanking to +4.
Tome of Battle have maneuvers that increase allies' abilities, including ones where you need to actively interact with enemies, instead of being passive buffs.
Marshal (Miniatures handbook) is a buffer too, though his are passives (but better than a bard's)

FlyMolo
2008-04-26, 12:10 PM
The two daggersomethings in C. Scoundrel were made to work together.

A Sacred Prostitute and a caster are scary.

Those are pretty much the only combos, I believe.

yeah, sneak attack is a definite thing that benefits from friends. Instead of having to worry about feinting and such, you can just use a friend.

Eldariel
2008-04-26, 12:35 PM
Sneak Attacker and a summoner/Druid with Animal Companion or a Distracting Attack Ranger-ally is an obvious combo. Likewise, Wizard with Grease-like abilities that make opponent flatfooted along with a Sneak Attacker goes well together.

A beef wall with a buffcaster is solid as battlefield control requires reach which is very much epitomized by spells like Enlarge Person, Giant Size and such, and added AC and attack bonus and damage all obviously help withi the whole thing. This while the beef keeps opponent from hitting the buffer.


And yea. Anything with cooperative metamagic-type abilities, circle magic, and the whole White Raven-disciple from ToB. Oh, and the more players you have, the better Bards are.

cupkeyk
2008-04-26, 12:48 PM
I like the prospect of a Dread Necro with a small army and a buffer bard with requiem.

seedjar
2008-04-26, 01:28 PM
Hmm, marshall/bard certainly looks like a place to start. The daggerwhoziwhatsits are really interesting too; I'd like to play one myself. But I'm leaning away from full casters at the moment - I'd feel too compelled to water down the casting while my players get started and that really takes the charm out of casters. Do the marshal's buffs overlap with a bard's? Bard/rouge + marshal + big poundy thing like a barbarian seems to have potential in my mind. But I'm not familiar with bards (due mostly to their reputation) and the marshal by extension.
~Joe

PS - Are there any PrCs that focus on acrobatics? ...And that work in the way I'm hoping? Probably not, but I think it would be cool to have, say, rouge/exemplars that toss clubs at the enemy to make them flinch and then stabby stab stabby.

cupkeyk
2008-04-26, 02:03 PM
Hmm, marshall/bard certainly looks like a place to start. The daggerwhoziwhatsits are really interesting too; I'd like to play one myself. But I'm leaning away from full casters at the moment - I'd feel too compelled to water down the casting while my players get started and that really takes the charm out of casters. Do the marshal's buffs overlap with a bard's? Bard/rouge + marshal + big poundy thing like a barbarian seems to have potential in my mind. But I'm not familiar with bards (due mostly to their reputation) and the marshal by extension.
~Joe

Yes, a marshall's aura is circumstance, a bard's inspire courage is morale.

Triaxx
2008-04-26, 02:37 PM
Fighters with improved trip and rogues with Combat reflexes are great partners. And bards go with everything.

Human Paragon 3
2008-04-26, 03:00 PM
The monk's stunning fist, manuevrability and durability make it a great rogue buddy and the ultimate flanking partner. And Rogue compliments Monk by not outshining it in mele.

Swooper
2008-04-26, 03:01 PM
Perhaps not suited for new players, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway:

Barbarian with Frozen Berserker (Frostburn) and Tomb Tainted Soul (Libris Mortis?). He is immune to cold and healed by negative energy.

Evoker (or warmage, I suppose) with Cold Substitution and Lord of the Uttercold (CArc). His blasty spells deal half cold and half negative energy damage, so he's healing the barbarian while blasting their enemies at the same time. He's not using higher level slots to do this.

Man, I must use this combo on my players some time. :smallbiggrin:

monty
2008-04-26, 03:11 PM
A druid and the druid's companion are a pretty powerful combo. It also works pretty well without the companion.

Draz74
2008-04-26, 05:46 PM
Yeah, White Raven maneuvers from Tome of Battle are all about this. And then there's the broken combo where two White Raven Warblades work together to spam a White Raven Hammer (or War Master's Charge) every round.

Warlocks combo well with other teammates for a variety of effects, some cheesy, others not. Item creation ... recharging a Staff of the Magi or similar effect, like the Spellfire Wielder feat ... Dragonfire Adepts can be similar, like using the invocation that gives an opponent Energy Vulnerability. Not worth a standard action, if the DA is by itself, but in combination with other blasters in the party, very nice.

Ravyn
2008-04-26, 11:04 PM
There were a couple build combinations I found by accident during my recent games.

Spont-casters with mind-affecting spells. The combination we used was beguiler-favored soul, but others can work just as well. Note: This works somewhat better in higher levels. Particularly with a combination of Command: Approach or Flee and that spiffy spell that creates a field of spectral warriors who flank and take AoOs.

Sneak attack class plus a caster with the aforementioned spell.

Or one I've gotten to try a few times: Mounted-spec melee-type plus wildshaped druid in a ridable form. CHARGE!

(Amusingly enough, the first and third combinations I found with the same player.)

Collin152
2008-04-26, 11:52 PM
The two daggersomethings in C. Scoundrel were made to work together.


C. Adventurer, actually.

Frosty
2008-04-26, 11:56 PM
A Beguiler and a Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny.

Hexblade's Dark Companion and the PoT's aura both lower saves. A Beguiler's arsenal is mostly saves-or-sucks.

nerulean
2008-04-27, 06:18 AM
Fighters with improved trip and rogues with Combat reflexes are great partners. And bards go with everything.

If you're going for simple and low-ish level, this is a very nice place to start, although you could replace the fighter with a druid and a wolf companion to double the level of stupid. In that situation, prepare to include lots of sneaky bits in the campaign, so that while the druid outshines horrendously on the battlefield, the rogue has his own arena where he's unmatched.

Talic
2008-04-27, 06:27 AM
Rogue/Justiciar.

Mounted charge up, Justiciar jumps off as a free action, grapples, pins, hog ties.

Rogue mounted charge up, jumps off as a free action, Coup de Grace.

OR...

Centaur Fighter/Cavalier.

Both with oversized TWF, and lances.