Masses of Destruction

[drengnikrafe]

I was trying to use that EL calculator, when I encountered a slight problem: That it doesn't go high enough...

How much experience would a level 5 party get for killing 1000 CR 1 creatures? Based upon the "double the number of creatures, and add 2 to the CR" it would be a CR 23, which would require ad-hoc experience, but I want to know what a fair experience value would be for such widespread destruction of creatures by the PCs.

[Jasdoif]

The DMG discourages having more then 12 creatures in an encounter (actually says it's just "difficult to judge"); because the component creatures are so weak that they don't make enough of a challenge for the given CR.

[sonofzeal]

CR measures how difficult the encounter is supposed to be. If the encounter is actually far easier for whatever reason, PCs earn less or no xp for it. And isn't the rule about "never gaining more than one level in a session" still on the books?

[martyboy74]

It depends on how the PCs killed the creatures. I highly doubt that they went hand-to-hand; probablility would catch up with them far before that. Did they have some sort of WMD?

[Solo]

Using WMDs won't get you much XP, otherwise President Truman would have been level 20 after 1945.

[Iku Rex]

You don't use EL to calculate XP. 1000 defeated CR 1s give the PCs XP for one CR 1 x 1000.

(Which basically means that the PCs are now level 6 needing one XP to become level 7.)

I can't imagine level 5 PCs killing that many "by hand" though. Sometimes it's more appropriate to set a CR for whatever they did, or just grant story XP. For example, if they manage to start a plague in an invading army they don't get XP for every dead soldier.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Using WMDs won't get you much XP, otherwise President Truman would have been level 20 after 1945.

Would he have got a roleplaying XP bonus if he'd successfully negotiated a fair peace without nuclear weapons?

[drengnikrafe]

Well, it's more of a theory then actually happening, but it's been bothering me so much I figured I had to ask.

It would be in a situation not vastly dissimilar to World of Warcraft. A mage under a houseruled magic system cast a Maximized, Empowered, Expanded Fireball and "Accidentally" hit a tree of life, on which a large grouping of the elves drew their life force. The Fireball did just enough to demolish the tree, therefore stopping the life force of thousands of elves, causing them all to die from the PCs actions.

That would be the circumstances, more or less.

[BRC]

My solution: go by Goal-Based XP rather than Corpse based.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I prefer to think of the XP tables as guidelines. In this instance, the DMG realizes that their guidelines are moot, and you really shouldn't be using that to gauge the experience the party got. Think of what the group did to kill an army. How much of their resource pool did they use? How close were any of them to dying? (Did any of them die?)

If it seemed like an epic accomplishment that almost/should have wiped them out but instead left them near-spent come nap time, I'd give the group a level and then some (for them, probably 5000XP each exactly).

If it seemed life-threatening but very possible, and they burned through it using their nova abilities and a bit of smarts, give 'em experience for, say, a CR 8-10 encounter.

If it looked like they were just picking off a swarm from afar, using about as much effort as they would against a few ogres in a dungeon, give 'em XP for a CR 5 encounter.

Though something tells me an army of 1000 anything against just them is going to be more than a CR 5 encounter unless there's something very wonky going on.

Edit: Just read the scenario: In that case, while the wizard cast one of his more powerful spells (I'm guessing), he merely 'accidentally' snuffed out the life force of a bunch of things which presumably weren't even gunning for his throat. At that point, you have to judge whether it's even an accomplishment worthy of XP, though it's CR 5 at most (and that's if he fully meant to do it).

[Narthon the Bold]

My solution: avatar of Corellon Larethian shows up on the party's doorstep.

[Jasdoif]

Well, it's more of a theory then actually happening, but it's been bothering me so much I figured I had to ask.

It would be in a situation not vastly dissimilar to World of Warcraft. A mage under a houseruled magic system cast a Maximized, Empowered, Expanded Fireball and "Accidentally" hit a tree of life, on which a large grouping of the elves drew their life force. The Fireball did just enough to demolish the tree, therefore stopping the life force of thousands of elves, causing them all to die from the PCs actions.

That would be the circumstances, more or less.In this case, the elves weren't even a threat to the character. No threat means no challenge, means no XP.

[Overlord]

Using WMDs won't get you much XP, otherwise President Truman would have been level 20 after 1945.

What makes you think he wasn't? The only reason the Cold War kept going was because with his enormous kill count, Stalin was epic-level. :smalltongue:

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Was this an "encounter?" IE did they get something they needed out of it? No? No XP.

Yes? Give them XP for the Tree of Life. It's worth depends on how much this helped them towards their goals. Unlikely that it gives them much unless they are trying to exterminate the elves. (Since it didn't actually help them travel through elven territory, because they weren't enemies of the elves.)

[BRC]

What makes you think he wasn't? The only reason the Cold War kept going was because with his enormous kill count, Stalin was epic-level. :smalltongue:
This Explains WWI, The generals didn't keep sending troops to die because they hadn't adapted to industrialized warfare, it was because they wanted the XP for killing so many soliders!

[Collin152]

What makes you think he wasn't? The only reason the Cold War kept going was because with his enormous kill count, Stalin was epic-level. :smalltongue:

Epic level aristocrat. Not that bad.
We all know FDR was an epic wizard suffering from a powerful curse anyways.

[BRC]

Epic level aristocrat. Not that bad.
We all know FDR was an epic wizard suffering from a powerful curse anyways.
Of course, The Depression was CR 17 EASY. Teddy Roosevelt was a greatclub-specced ranger who got to level 18 by building the panama canal (Defeating a good part of Columbia and killing part of a continent as they dug through it).

That Said, in terms of the Tree-Of-Life thingy, It's not "Did they beat it" but "Was it a challenge", and killing all those elves was not any more challenging than killing the tree itself. If you poision some food, you should only get experience for whatever you had to do to poision the food itself, even if 5 level 20 wizards eat the food and die, the challange wasn't in killing them, it was in poisioning the food.

[Mewtarthio]

We all know FDR was an epic wizard suffering from a powerful curse anyways.

Nah, he was just a Bard with a ridiculously buffed Perform (oratory). His build was so cheesy, they had to release an errata afterwards, clarifying that you can't be President four times in a row.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Nah, Teddy was a Warblade with Improved Toughness, max rolls, 18 CON, and Open minded for Perform (Oratory).

The GM had to banhammer him when he took max damage from a ranged weapon, and STILL gave the fifty page speech. However, he still thought that was the coolest thing ever.

[Collin152]

Nah, he was just a Bard with a ridiculously buffed Perform (oratory). His build was so cheesy, they had to release an errata afterwards, clarifying that you can't be President four times in a row.

That's the curse, you see.
It's like Cassandra. He was an awesome WIzard, but everybody thinks he was just a bard.
And as if that errata will ever come up again.
Still, he did upgrade the desk of +4 democracy.

[BRC]

Nah, Teddy was a Warblade with Improved Toughness, max rolls, 18 CON, and Open minded for Perform (Oratory).

The GM had to banhammer him when he took max damage from a ranged weapon, and STILL gave the fifty page speech. However, he still thought that was the coolest thing ever.
Lemme Guess, Taft was a ranger with Favored Enemy: Trusts. Nixon got caught peeking at the DM's notes. Grant was a Drunken Brawler/Marshal. Ceaser must have been pretty high level, although if he was a caster he could have taken down vercigoterix (a barbarian most likely) easy. And say what you will, Ghengis Khan was epic-level. Kublai made the mistake of taking levels in aristocrat though.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Genghis? PLEASE. Alexander, he was of at least level 8 for the crazily intelligent battleplans, and probably way higher, and certainly better than Temujhin.

Odysseus, hmm, what could 'e have been? Factotum?

And what levels should we give to ace pilots? Or Rock stars? Great warriors?

[BRC]

Genghis? PLEASE. Alexander, he was of at least level 8 for the crazily intelligent battleplans, and probably way higher, and certainly better than Temujhin.

Odysseus, hmm, what could 'e have been? Factotum?

And what levels should we give to ace pilots? Or Rock stars? Great warriors?

Okay, Alexsander was pretty good, but Genghis beat him in terms of square mileage. dunno about Odysseus, he's supossibly the great tactician, but maybe he's a rogue, wasn't he the one who thought up sneak-attacking troy?

As for the others, Fighter, Bard, Fighter in that order.

[SurlySeraph]

@^: Odysseus was a Beguiler/Paladin of Freedom (or possibly Slaughter), worshipping Athena.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Commie: Yeah, of course, but I'm thinking of the specifics. For some reason, Slash doesn't quite seem like he'd have B. B. King's feats.

Or, for example, Kozhedub would probably not have the same tricks and feats as the other Allied aces or the Red Baron.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Yeah, doesn't sound like it was a challenge/an encounter, so no XP.

This is pretty much on the same level as those old AD&D-era ScaleMails in Dragon: "Help, how do I stop my players from killing barmaids to get that 5 XP they needed to level up?" Dur, by not giving them XP. Not a threat, not an encounter, no XP.

And like Iku Rex said, you calculate XP by looking at the table for each CR and adding them up. I know the DMG tells you that. EL is not used in XP calculations.

So if four 3rd-level PCs kill 167 CR 1 orcs, they get 300x167/4 XP each. (Capped, like Iku Rex implied; the most XP you can ever gain is 1 less than enough to take you up two levels. So the 3rd-levels would end up with 9,999 XP.)