Peta is weird slightly nsfw

[Count D20]

PETA disturbs me. (http://www.ericacbarnett.com/parts.htm)
This picture doesn't make me think that eating cows is like eating humans even a tiny tiny bit. what it does do a little bit is make me think(subconsiously) that eating humans is like eating cows.Delicious.
I believe this is intentional.

[Amotis]

All animals have the same parts?

WHERE THE **** IS MY TAIL? I WANT MY TAIL!

[Kneenibble]

Heh.
For me, this picture reaffirms both my vegetarianism, and my homosexuality.
I imagine it would affirm a man's meat-eating and heterosexuality simultaneously, however.

[phoenixineohp]

I'm a veggie and I must say...

She looks delicious. :smallwink:

[Vaynor]

All animals have the same parts?

WHERE THE **** IS MY TAIL? I WANT MY TAIL!

I agree. Everyone should have a tail. And wings. And horns. Horns would be cool.

[Amotis]

I'm a veggie and I must say...

She looks delicious. :smallwink:

Is that what they're calling it these days? :smallamused:

[Cobra_Ikari]

I'm a veggie and I must say...

She looks delicious. :smallwink:

I eat meat, but I agree. Mmm.

...now I want to talk about people like this. Like..."Damn, my chuck is sore!"...or something. >.>

[Rogue 7]

Heh. I'm a completely unrepentant meat-eater. I respect vegetarians, I just disagree with 'em.

[LurkerInPlayground]

PETA disturbs me. (http://www.ericacbarnett.com/parts.htm)
This picture doesn't make me think that eating cows is like eating humans even a tiny tiny bit. what it does do a little bit is make me think(subconsiously) that eating humans is like eating cows.Delicious.
I believe this is intentional.
I guess that model is pretty attractive.

The propaganda is ham-fisted and artless. (Redundant, I know.) I'd respect them more if I thought they were making some sort of existential commentary, which I know they're not.

And believe it or not, I would actually consider eating people. Need to eat Bobby in order to survive in the isolated wasteland? Sign me up.

I've met people who won't consider eating rattlesnake but would nonetheless eat squid. Food is a learning thing as far as I figure. That and beef is not cow. Beef is an invention, rather seperate in the mind from existence of a cow that had to have a piston neatly driven into its skull.

I also take my duty as an omnivore rather seriously. Ecological diversity exists to be eaten.

[Icewalker]

I feel that any vegetarian who is doing so for some kind of humanitarian reason or health reason is (probably) wrong in some way. I don't actually know, I just read an article giving a lot of points with regard to that.

People who just find that they dislike the idea of eating meat, or who don't like the taste can't be criticized in the least, of course.

(Don't hate me notes:
What I mean by 'wrong' is 'incorrect' not morally wrong.
What I mean by incorrect in some way if for a humanitarian reason, it is because those people usually don't eat meat because they feel the animals are treated badly, instead of supporting places that treat the animals well. It's their choice though, so I really can't judge.)


That's a...kind of disturbing image. Not in a "oooh, eating meat is bad" kind of way, just the idea of it...

I didn't know that PETA was pushing vegetarianism, I thought it was just stuff like anti-animal cruelty.

[Ganurath]

I always find it funny how the people who are vegetarian out of concern for animals are denying their natural urges as creatures that eat meat to help nature.

We've interferred with our own natural selection enough. Do we need to meddle for other races too?

[Serpentine]

Aww, they didn't include the oysters :smallfrown: [/Red Dragon reference]

Every time I look at that picture, I get more and more annoyed at the slogan. I see no tentacles, exoskeleton or mandibles on myself :smallannoyed:

[poleboy]

I'd eat that.

[Serpentine]

I think I'm generally with you, Ice. Lurker, what you're reviling there is exactly what Ice referred to as "incorrect". The part you highlighted was referring to people who don't eat meat because they don't like the taste or they think it's healthier not to. I don't like plain milk and squash, so I don't drink/eat it. You gonna call me stupid, too?

edit: ...

dammit :smallannoyed:

[Ganurath]

Aww, they didn't include the oysters :smallfrown: [/Red Dragon reference]

Every time I look at that picture, I get more and more annoyed at the slogan. I see no tentacles, exoskeleton or mandibles on myself :smallannoyed:PETA only protects the animals that are pretty and/or edible.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I think I'm generally with you, Ice. Lurker, what you're reviling there is exactly what Ice referred to as "incorrect". The part you highlighted was referring to people who don't eat meat because they don't like the taste or they think it's healthier not to. I don't like plain milk and squash, so I don't drink/eat it. You gonna call me stupid, too?

edit: ...

dammit :smallannoyed:
Can I now?

[Serpentine]

Considering I was merely responding to a post you then deleted, no. Also, may I suggest you review the rules, specifically those on insulting.

[SurlySeraph]

Meh. Vegetarianism I can understand, it's veganism that drives me into paroxysms of confused rage.

Yeah, that image does absolutely nothing to reduce my desire for meat. If she was an innocent-looking little girl it might, but as is it just more links my desire for meat and my desire for attractive women. Which is slightly creepy, but not as saddening and painful as PETA evidentally wants it to be.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Considering I was merely responding to a post you then deleted, no. Also, may I suggest you review the rules, specifically those on insulting.
No harm meant. I thought it was pretty funny.

[Vaynor]

No harm meant. I thought it was pretty funny.

I fail to see how calling someone stupid is funny.

[Justyn]

PETA? Those hypocritical terrorists? And if you don't believe me here, look up the video of Penn and Teller's stuff on the matter on Youtube.

Most of PETA's arguments can be disproved with a little thought. Can and should we treat the animals that give their live so we may eat better? Yes. Should we all become completely subservient to animals and give up our pets because these people believe that we are inslaving them? I dissagree, because I use reasons to make my decisions; but these people are not ruled by reason.

This is propaganda, just as much as the WWII cartoon of Bugs Bunny slaughtering Japanese soldiers is.

[thubby]

WWII cartoon of Bugs Bunny slaughtering Japanese soldiers is.

QUE?

i value my species more than others, just like every other animal in existence, shocking i know.

*looks at image* so thats where a human chuck is.

*starts chewing on self* tastes like chicken, nerdy chicken.

[Serpentine]

There's a cartoon of Bugs vs. Japanese army? Awesome. Linky?

Lurker: Whatever.

Also, apparently we actually taste very much of pork. I want to know whether cured human also tastes of bacon...

[Raiser Blade]

Also, apparently we actually taste very much of pork. I want to know whether cured human also tastes of bacon...

Where's Hannibal Lecter when you need him...

[LurkerInPlayground]

There's a cartoon of Bugs vs. Japanese army? Awesome. Linky?

Lurker: Whatever.

Also, apparently we actually taste very much of pork. I want to know whether cured human also tastes of bacon...
I've heard that we taste something like veal.

I dunno, that makes sense for some reason.

EDIT: Yeah, that's not the only censored Looney Toon cartoon. . .

[phoenixineohp]

I'd like to note two things.

One, there are several veggie on this site, and possibly some vegans. And likely some others of different classification. Saying you disagree with their eating habits differs from saying they are stupid, etc. You don't know my reasons for being a veggie, so I'd appreciate you not labeling me an idiot because I eat differently than you do. I am not accusing anyone of actually doing this yet, but we are wandering into that area. Let's just say it's touchy.

Two, if we were to look at peta's policies and ideas we would likely be in the square area of politics. Let's just comment on the silly image and appreciate failed ad campaigns.

[AngelSword]

"Do you know what they do to those chickens?"
"No, but it's delicious!"

Don't get me wrong. I do love animals. I just love to eat them more. Fun to pet, better to chew.:smalltongue:
Unceremoniously ripped off from Jim Gaffigan.

[Cuddly]

Why are you guys getting so defensive over eating meat? Trying to justify that killing for pleasure is ok?

I like to beat dogs.
You like to eat beat cow.

What's the difference? Immediacy?
Is that how you justify it?

[rubakhin]

Hehehe. I'm a nice third category. :smalltongue:

You're a bisexual breatharian? :smallbiggrin:

This reminds me of that guy who decided a few years ago to create some kind of tofu product that tasted exactly like human flesh. I was dying to try some of it, but the website shut down a while back. Too bad!

(The point PETA was trying to make went so far over my head that it circumvented the globe twice before crash-landing in my garden.)

[thubby]

Why are you guys getting so defensive over eating meat? Trying to justify that killing for pleasure is ok?

I like to beat dogs.
You like to eat beat cow.

What's the difference? Immediacy?
Is that how you justify it?

you're assuming abusive behavior. is there a difference between crucification and lethal injection? that shot to the head is a quick, painless, death, assuming you care.

[The Rose Dragon]

"Go vegetarian"? Then what would I eat, tasteless vegetables? Meat is awesome, and I'm sticking to it.

Now where do I find glue that sticks meat to my flesh...

[SurlySeraph]

Why are you guys getting so defensive over eating meat? Trying to justify that killing for pleasure is ok?

I like to beat dogs.
You like to eat beat cow.

What's the difference? Immediacy?
Is that how you justify it?

Maybe for the same reason you're getting so defensive over not eating meat?

The difference is that cows have been selectively bred to be less intelligent and to be almost useless to humankind for all purposes except consumption, whereas dogs have been bred to be intelligent, loyal, responsive, empathetic, and comforting. Dogs are companions and helpers, cows are little more than meat-growing machines. It's like the difference between hurting a co-worker and hurting a lamp.

And I don't justify it at all. I don't need to. I have no moral qualms whatsoever about eating my fellow living creatures.

[The Rose Dragon]

Dogs are companions and helpers, cows are little more than meat-growing machines.

What? You forgot milk?

Nuuuuuuuuuoooooooo!

Also, that reminds me of something. What is with vegans not eating eggs or drinking milk? It is completely harmless to the animals (seeing how the eggs you eat won't hatch, ever, and the milk you drink is taken from animals that don't feed their babies).

[Tempest Fennac]

In regards to what humans taste like, a lot of cannables refer to human meat as "long pork" because humans supposedly taste like pigs. The add made me kind of hungry if I'm honest with you (personally, I don't have any issues with eating other animals due to how, from what I can gather, some humans need animal protein to be healthy*, but I class conditions in factory farms to be a problem which isn't going to go away, so I'm in favour of meat being artificialy grown: www.new-harvest.org ).

* Brian Molko, who's the lead singer of a really great band named Placebo, tried going vegetarian, but he became ill due to it, and an animal behaviouralist/slaughterhouse equipment designer/authour named Temple Grandin reported an inability to concentrate while feeling dizzy when she stopped eating meat for a while. She also found similar things with other people who have autism. (Someone who I used to know told me a while back that they found that giving up animal products altgether tended to make autism disappear altogether, though, so I'm not sure who was correct here).

[Count D20]

"Go vegetarian"? Then what would I eat, tasteless vegetables? Meat is awesome, and I'm sticking to it.

Now where do I find glue that sticks meat to my flesh...

And then you make the invincible steak armor! no one hits you because it could damage the meat!

[LurkerInPlayground]

In regards to what humans taste like, a lot of cannables refer to human meat as "long pork" because humans supposedly taste like pigs. The add made me kind of hungry if I'm honest with you (personally, I don't have any issues with eating other animals due to how, from what I can gather, some humans need animal protein to be healthy*, but I class conditions in factory farms to be a problem which isn't going to go away, so I'm in favour of meat being artificialy grown: www.new-harvest.org ).

* Brian Molko, who's the lead singer of a really great band named Placebo, tried going vegetarian, but he became ill due to it, and an animal behaviouralist/slaughterhouse equipment designer/authour named Temple Grandin reported an inability to concentrate while feeling dizzy when she stopped eating meat for a while. She also found similar things with other people who have autism. (Someone who I used to know told me a while back that they found that giving up animal products altgether tended to make autism disappear altogether, though, so I'm not sure who was correct here).
It's because it's easier to get protein out of meat than beans or some other veggie. Pop a chicken finger in your mouth and you've probably already exceeded your daily protein requirements.

[thubby]

Also, that reminds me of something. What is with vegans not eating eggs or drinking milk? It is completely harmless to the animals (seeing how the eggs you eat won't hatch, ever, and the milk you drink is taken from animals that don't feed their babies).

Im not vegan, but what I've heard is:
objection to the treatment of the animals
tastes bad
the idea of eating something from something else's body is just gross


And then you make the invincible steak armor! no one hits you because it could damage the meat!

or it would encourage them to tenderize it :smallbiggrin:

[SurlySeraph]

What? You forgot milk?

Milk: The other other white meat. :smallbiggrin:

I do think that artificially-grown meat is a very good idea (it'd be a lot more efficient than raising the animals, and without any nerve tissue there wouldn't be any possibility of suffering), but there's a long way to go before it's viable. But one day, we'll have meat factories, jetpacks, flying cars, and couches that walk over and pick up the remote for you.

And after that, there'll be nothing left to invent.

[thubby]

it would be more practical to raise and eat bears than cows, you get something like 3 times the meat for less food. (though i suppose that has something to do with the bear trying to eat you back)
we like eating cows, i don't think that is going to change.

[Tempest Fennac]

Surly, the head of the US patant office said that in 1899. Look at how wrong he was.:smallbiggrin: Seriously, it will be great when growing meat from stem cells is practical. I think a lot of vegans class using eggs and milk as stealing from the animals.

[LurkerInPlayground]

it would be more practical to raise and eat bears than cows, you get something like 3 times the meat for less food.
we like eating cows, i don't think that is going to change.
So we're going to breed bears to be bigger and dumber than they have to be?

Doesn't sound like a good idea.

[thubby]

So we're going to breed bears to be bigger and dumber than they have to be?

Doesn't sound like a good idea.

I'm sure someone thought that about whatever monstrosity the cow evolved from.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I'm sure someone thought that about whatever monstrosity the cow evolved from.
Bears don't eat grass.

And I'm sure the cows were smaller.

Bears are also notoriously cranky if you try to get their butt moving in any direction they don't want to go. Ropes don't work. Bears don't get spooked by dogs. Or humans. They'll rip your head off first.

Guns aren't lethal enough fast enough to be practical (and you want to avoid shooting your livestock full of lead).

[Tempest Fennac]

I thought bovines always stayed pretty much as they were after they were domesticated. Regarding bears, what do they taste like? (For some reason, I don't really like the idea of eating predators if I'm honest).

[†Seer†]

I thought bovines always stayed pretty much as they were after they were domesticated. Regarding bears, what do they taste like? (For some reason, I don't really like the idea of eating predators if I'm honest).

I've heard it's a lot richer than beef, but it's probably due to bears eating 'real' food hehe. While I've never had bear, I Have had venison, and I find it utterly amazing. The only odd thing is if I stop and go, "This was a deer." I can't eat any more of it for awhile O.o.

Anyways, please everyone keep in mind what PETA really means.

People Eating Tasty Animals

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for telling me. I've never tried venison (ostrich and kangaroo are the only 2 really unusual meats I've tried). Pork is probably my favourite kiind of meat.

[Cuddly]

Maybe for the same reason you're getting so defensive over not eating meat?

I eat meat, lots and lots of it, yet I don't mind vegetarians. I'm just trying to figure out why everyone's getting their arses in a knot.


The difference is that cows have been selectively bred to be less intelligent and to be almost useless to humankind for all purposes except consumption, whereas dogs have been bred to be intelligent, loyal, responsive, empathetic, and comforting. Dogs are companions and helpers, cows are little more than meat-growing machines. It's like the difference between hurting a co-worker and hurting a lamp.

Clearly you have no experience with cows, or any other food animal for that matter. Pigs, for instance, are quite intelligent. Easily as smart as dogs, and almost as companionable.

I'm sure there's some video on the web you could look up where it shows animals freaking out at the scent of all that blood in th slaughterhouse.


And I don't justify it at all. I don't need to. I have no moral qualms whatsoever about eating my fellow living creatures.

You mean you have no bad feelings about eating some creatures that you had no experience in killing and have little relation to.

Compartmentalization, I guess.

[Serpentine]

Why are you guys getting so defensive over eating meat? Trying to justify that killing for pleasure is ok?

I like to beat dogs.
You like to eat beat cow.

What's the difference? Immediacy?
Is that how you justify it?This is exactly the sort of thing that is giving vegetarians a bad name. You assume that "I eat meat" means "I hate animals/think it's okay to mistreat animals". I most certainly do not. I only buy free range eggs, and I've started looking for free range chickens. I believe that animals should be treated as well as possible and then killed in as humane a way as possible. I am then happy to eat them, and you have no right to judge me for it - similarly, I have no right to judge you for choosing not to eat meat, but I will judge you if you try to preach at me about it. Someone who would never eat meat anyway saying "cows are mistreated, so I won't eat it!" is never going to convince farmers to change their practices. It will be the meat-eaters who do it. I'm happy for people to decide not to eat meat because they don't like it. I'm fine with people not eating meat because they think it's healthier, so long as there's not the implication that I eat meat and therefore must be unhealthy. After my own extremely brief experience of involuntary vegetarianism, I can perfectly understand that the idea of eating something that once walked around before being slaughtered could be completely disgusting. It's when it turns into an ideology that must be fought for and to which others must be converted that it really bothers me. Like any other cause, you're just gonna drive me further away from it by informing me that I'm a murderer who encourages animal abuse if I disagree with you.
edit: Turns out Cuddly apparently is not a vegetarian, so change all Cuddly-oriented "you"s into non-specific, general "you"s.

On bears as food: For some reason, eating predators (or, if I recall correctly, "black meat") always seems a bit off...

Tempest: So far as I know, all the plane crash survivors, cannibals, etc. have said we taste of pig. A friend of mine can't even stand the smell of cooking bacon after experiencing an open-air cremation in Bali. I still want to know whether we turn into bacon when we're smoked.

On venison: We had a nice big leg of venison once. Had venison sandwiches for like a month. Yum.

[Tempest Fennac]

In regards to pigs, there wa a piglet at a petting corner at a gala who tried to escape after smelling a hog roast. Also, pigs have been known to play a simple computer game which involves moving a cursor into a particular part of the screen using a joy stick.

EDIT: it would be interesting to try that bacon idea, Serpentine (I know that human flesh is similar to pig flesh). I agree with what you said about the ethics of eating meat as well.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I eat meat, lots and lots of it, yet I don't mind vegetarians. I'm just trying to figure out why everyone's getting their arses in a knot.
Because picking on PETA is fun.

[Cuddly]

stuff

Ok?
That still doesn't explain why loves to hate on vegetarians.

[thubby]

On bears as food: For some reason, eating predators (or, if I recall correctly, "black meat") always seems a bit off...

instinct at work. attacking a predator would have been more dangerous, thus our brains have a natural tendency to drive us away from them.

oh, and they taste like a gamey steak. tough too.

[Serpentine]

This is exactly the sort of thing that is giving vegetarians a bad name. You assume that "I eat meat" means "I hate animals/think it's okay to mistreat animals"... Someone who would never eat meat anyway saying "cows are mistreated, so I won't eat it!" is never going to convince farmers to change their practices. It will be the meat-eaters who do it. I'm happy for people to decide not to eat meat because they don't like it. I'm fine with people not eating meat because they think it's healthier, so long as there's not the implication that I eat meat and therefore must be unhealthy. After my own extremely brief experience of involuntary vegetarianism, I can perfectly understand that the idea of eating something that once walked around before being slaughtered could be completely disgusting. It's when it turns into an ideology that must be fought for and to which others must be converted that it really bothers me. Like any other cause, you're just gonna drive me further away from it by informing me that I'm a murderer who encourages animal abuse if I disagree with you.There you go. :smallsmile:

Thubby: Not a bad theory. On the other hand, for some reason eating, say, snakes and lizards is generally pretty okay, while, say, wolf and eagle are a bit more iffy. 'Course, then there's things like pig and dog, which are often considered "unclean".

[Tempest Fennac]

Going back to he point about humans and animals not having the same parts: I'd really like to have a fur coat and claws (if not a full half fox form) if I'm honest. (Perhaps research into growing meat from stem cells could help with that:smallbiggrin:).

[Vella_Malachite]

Yeah, they didn't really aim that campaign at the right spot, did they?

I think that vegetarians have their own, valid reasons for being vegetarian, but I eat meat because it is nature's way of making sure animals don't take over the world (not that it really matters anymore, but it makes me feel better). I don't think that people have the right to force people to be vegetarian, nor do I believe that people have the right to abuse people for being vegetarian. I just like the taste and believe that it is a more right thing for me to do.

I have friends who are vegetarian, and I don't think they are wrong, and if you really think about it, it's not even worth arguing over. Seriously, it's none of my business why he only eats vegetables, and honestly, how difficult is it really just to make sure that there's vegetarian food at parties? We've never had problems, that's for sure.

[LurkerInPlayground]

instinct at work. attacking a predator would have been more dangerous, thus our brains have a natural tendency to drive us away from them.

oh, and they taste like a gamey steak. tough too.
I doubt it.
I'd eat bear.
I'd eat rattlesnake too.
Preferably cooked.

It's just people don't like eating things foreign to them. I think there have been historical instances of people starving to death even though foreign aide in the form of wheat was available.

And this is largely because said people never saw the stuff.

Cuisine is largely taught to you. Ergo, some people have pretty bad eating habits that stick with them all their lives.

[Serpentine]

On fur: I'd be okay with buying something like a wild fox- or rabbit-fur coat in Australia or wild possum in New Zealand, or the skin of something farmed, especially for food, cuz it's killing things that need to be killed for ecological reasons/would be killed anyway. I'm also okay with buying vintage or second-hand fur, cuz it's not as though the money's going to the people who killed the animal. Hunting for nothing but fashion or sport, though? Nuh-uh.
I used to have a fox-fur stole I bought second-hand from a market stall. I don't know where it's gone, now :smallfrown:
Hmmm. I wonder whether my uncle's still a mad-keen fox hunter...

It's just people don't like eating things foreign to them. I think there have been historical instances of people starving to death even though foreign aide in the form of wheat was available.I believe this was the fate of some of Australia's early explorers. Burke and Wills, maybe? Any Australians wanna help me here?

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm completely opposed to the fur trade due to classing it as unecessary as far as warmth goes, and I tend to think that humans shouldn't interfer with natural eco-systems (admittedly, that arguement doesn't really apply that well to hunting certain creatures Australia due to the circumsances surrounding why foxes and several other animals were there in the first place). In othr cases, I know this sounds cold, but I'm in favour of letting nature sort the problems out itself (especially since natural selection is essential for evoluton). For obvious reasons, I also tend to class wearing animal fur as really tacky and disrepectful to the animal.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I'm completely opposed to the fur trade due to classing it as unecessary as far as warmth goes, and I tend to think that humans shouldn't interfer with natural eco-systems (admittedly, that arguement doesn't really apply that well to hunting certain creatures Australia due to the circumsances surrounding why foxes and several other animals were there in the first place). In othr cases, I know this sounds cold, but I'm in favour of letting nature sort the problems out itself (especially since natural selection is essential for evoluton). For obvious reasons, I also tend to class wearing animal fur as really tacky and disrepectful to the animal.
Hint: You are implying that evolution has a goal. Like an anthropomorphic principle.

[Freelance Henchman]

Militiant vegetarians make we want to buy meat where the animal was waterboarded first before slaughtering it.

[Tempest Fennac]

I thought that evolving was a goal considering how it improves individual specises. Also, isn't the water boarding comment unfair considering how the animals can't be blamed for what a lot of humans do?

[Emperor Ing]

I have a rant about PETA that I would LOVE to say, but i fear I risk breaking the forum rules.

Needless to say, Zealot Vegans superimposing their views on others FTL. :smallyuk:

[Serpentine]

The "goal" might be "have lots of babies that have lots of babies", the means by which the overall ability for a species to achieve this alters by natural and other selections, and evolution is the resultant change over time.

[Justyn]

There's a cartoon of Bugs vs. Japanese army? Awesome. Linky?

It's called "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugs_Bunny_Nips_the_Nips), here is a video of it put up by, apparently, Warner Brothers itself: [Link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RYkkP5YZfhM)]

Just to point out: by today's standards, it is obviously politically incorrect.

[Freelance Henchman]

Evolution's goals are also moving targets. What may be good today, may suck tomorrow, because everything else has evolved in some (random) direction as well.

[Cuddly]

Evolution can be the product of random events- it's simply the change in allele frequencies over time. Dawkins has focused undue public attention on only one facet of evolution, and that's evolution by natural selection.

[Serpentine]

My point was that evolution is, to quote my Dictionary of Zoology, "Change, with continuity in successive generations of organisms." It is just a phenomenon, it cannot plan, it cannot prepare for the future, it does not have goals. It just is. At best, it (or rather, natural selection), could maybe be said to "react".

Uh...
That picture iz teh sillorz?
<.<
>.>

[poleboy]

Millitant vegetarians like PETA need to remember that humans have some basic biological needs that can be fulfilled in a variety of ways. Humans have, AFAIK always been omnivores - surviving on whatever we could find lying or hanging around. Thus, it would make sense to compose your diet of whatever is readily at hand (such as fruits and vegetables) and won't kill you (such as herbivores). Now, you could choose to waive meat in favor of vegetables and fruit. That's fine and actually a good starting point. However, you will need to be very careful about what you eat and make sure you get lots of proteins, which are not quite as easily available from a vegetarian diet.
You could also pig out on meat and eat a huge steak for every meal. That however, is not a very good idea. Since we are not predators by nature, our bodies are not designed to digest the same amounts of meat as a predator. I don't know exactly what long-term effect it will have, but I'm pretty sure it isn't healthy.

So basically, from a survivalist standpoint, the most logical solution would be to stick to a mostly vegetarian diet, and supply it with a little meat every two or three days to get the things that aren't as readily available from fruits and vegetables.
If it's good enough for ancient man, it's good enough for you dammit! :p

I'm often surprised at how many people are unwilling to take the middle (well sorta) ground and see meat as a dietary supplement rather than either The Bane Of All That Is Good or The Only reason To Eat. People are funny like that.

[Serpentine]

Just wanna mention that a couple of people have talked about the protein from meat being what vegetarians are missing out of. Protein's relatively easy to deal with, it's iron that's the problem. There are non-animal foods that have iron in them, but meat is the only (or almost the only) food that has some protein or whatever it is that helps our body absorb/use it. There are ways around it, but it's a lot harder than just having a piece of steak a few days a week, and I believe that an awful lot of vegetarians (though by no means all), through ignorance or laziness, don't go to that effort and as a result may have some health problems.

[Felixaar]

I'm pretty sure no one has ever refered to the upper middle back as the "chucks" before, atleast not talking about humans, and as agreed we all deserve horns, tales and cow bells.

I'm personally a meat eater, though slowly lessening off it and going towards vegetarianism. Mainly cause I feel unsurpessable guilt every time I actually think about eating meat.

[Tempest Fennac]

In regards to poleboy's comments, I eat a lot of mean because it's my favourite food group (there's only 4 types of vegetables and 2 types of solid fruits which I like, so I'd struggle if I did attempt to cut that much meat out of my diet, and I don't honstly feel a bit guilty about eating it as much as I do). Just thinking about my comment earlier about wanting to be able to grow a fur coat: how long do you guys think it will be before genetic engineering makes it possible for humans to aquire animalistic features, and how popular do you think it would be once the process was perfected so that it's safe?

[Serpentine]

A very, very long time. Well, at least decades. And that's just the science - the legislation, ethical questions, restrictions on human experimentation and public outcry will make it take even longer.

[Tempest Fennac]

Those are good points (it's a shame that polymorph-type spells aren't available in real life.:smallfrown:).

[Ranna]

<snip> it's iron that's the problem. There are non-animal foods that have iron in them, but meat is the only (or almost the only) food that has some protein or whatever it is that helps our body absorb/use it. There are ways around it, but it's a lot harder than just having a piece of steak a few days a week, and I believe that an awful lot of vegetarians (though by no means all), through ignorance or laziness, don't go to that effort and as a result may have some health problems.

Spinich Spinich Spinich yum yum yum

My boyfriend hates it sooo much and I love it!

But Fur yes its bad but then why don't we start thinking about cotton and how many lovely animals have been kicked out of their homes so we can grow the vast expanses of cotton we need...

Lets just face it humans have populated the world in plague like proportions and currently we are going through what will be seen (in the future) as one of the greatest mass extinctions in time. I just don't understand the whining that goes on when it will make no difference whatsoever in the long run!

[Tempest Fennac]

I never knew you were as misanthropic as I am, Ranna. :smallbiggrin: Do you think humans will be likely to go extinct as well, or are you just thinking about other creatures?

[Ranna]

Oh we'll wipe each other out like we did in the past... why are there no other homo species around...we killed em, and we'll kill each other too its in our nature.

Yay!

I'm a vegetarian for the taste (and I'm lazy meat is really hard to chew) but I will eat meat if I am going to have a baby. Meat in small portions is good for you.

Oo just thought of something else, that picture of the woman with her bits all marked out, is technically wrong, If peta wanted to be acurrate she would be much much bigger than that. After all when you compare our livestock animals to their wild game counterparts you'd hardly say they were lean in comparison.

Silly peta succumbing to the need to have a pretty woman in their advertising!

[Tempest Fennac]

This reminds me of that thread which BURNHollywoodBURN started about the possibilty that we've almost wiped ourselves out repeatedly (I'll find it in a minute). That is a good point about the add. Ironically, I find that meat's easy to chew a vast majority of the time (I hate cruncy/hard-to-chew vegetable matter, though).

EDIT: I found BHB's thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71960&highlight=scariest+theory .

[†Seer†]

Just thinking about my comment earlier about wanting to be able to grow a fur coat: how long do you guys think it will be before genetic engineering makes it possible for humans to aquire animalistic features, and how popular do you think it would be once the process was perfected so that it's safe?


I hope sometime in my lifetime...I think cat ears are unbearably cute on girls :smalltongue:

*EDIT* ^OP: I think both veggies and meat can be hard/easy to chew based on how it was prepared. *watches clock* All this talk of food...counting down the hours until the commons opens.

[Serpentine]

Spinich Spinich Spinich yum yum yumSpinach does have iron in it, yes, but not that extra substance that makes it easy for us to absorb. Also, apparently the whole Popey thing was meant to convince kids to eat spinach because it had lots of iron in it, based on a study that worked out just how much it had... but put the decimal point one place too far to the right. Which means it actually has 1/10 of the amount it was originally thought. To be fair, that's still a lot for a vegetable. Checking wikipedia etc. for confirmation...
edit: Here we go, from Wikipedia on spinach:

In popular folklore, spinach is a rich source of iron. In reality, a 60 gram serving of boiled spinach contains around 1.9 mg of iron (slightly more when eaten raw). Many green vegetables contain less than 1 mg of iron for an equivalent serving. Hence spinach does contain a relatively high level of iron for a vegetable, but its consumption does not have special health connotations.

The myth about spinach and its high iron content may have first been propagated by Dr. E. von Wolf in 1870, because a misplaced decimal point in his publication led to an iron-content figure that was ten times too high. In 1937, German chemists reinvestigated this "miracle vegetable" and corrected the mistake. It was described by T.J. Hamblin in British Medical Journal, December 1981.I are edumacational :smallsmile:

[Construct]

Serpentine: Iron's not really a problem for vegetarians, though other minerals and vitamins can be. Vegans have a particular problem with vitamin B12. Dear god, I'm about to reference Wikipedia. Have mercy on my soul. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_nutrition)

Ranna: Spinach *is* relatively high in iron for a green vegetable but not to the extent commonly believed; would 'eat meat' campaigns use it as an example if it was? The misconception came about because of a misplaced decimal point in a 19th century publication.

Seer: OhpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseSQUEE!*dies*

Serpentine: Great, now I'm hallucimanating. When I turns into a snake-lady and write my posts before I write them I *know* its time for bed. *curlsintoballoffuzzysnuggles*

[Ponce]

I've heard spinach isn't actually that great for you. (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_120.html) Does taste good though.

I have several vegetarian friends. They tell me they've been to the doctors and so forth. Iron deficiency does indeed seem to be one of the main obstacles in a vegetarian diet.

[Serpentine]

Serpentine: Great, now I'm hallucimanating. When I turns into a snake-lady and write my posts before I write them I *know* its time for bed. *curlsintoballoffuzzysnuggles*Ballsoffuzzysnuggles ! My favourite! :smallbiggrin:
It happens to me a lot. It's only fair that I should do it to someone else :smalltongue:

[reorith]

Meh. Vegetarianism I can understand, it's veganism that drives me into paroxysms of confused rage.

now you've lost me. what about veganism drives you into a confused rage? is it the whole not consuming milk/eggs/honey thing? or the whole "lolz i live a cruelty life and i'm a better person than you thing?" or is it something completely different?

[Mauve Shirt]

Eating meat is not the same as mistreating animals.

I've gone sort of vegetarian for weight loss before, but it's really difficult for me to go without meat. I have a real problem with tofu. Sure, it tastes like whatever you cook it with, but it's not the taste that's the problem, it's the texture. It squeaks.
PEOPLE! TOFU IS MADE OF PEOPLE! :smallwink:
I respect vegetarians, but I can't stand it when they get preachy. As Serpentine has said.

In Howard County there's a deer overpopulation problem and we're encouraged to hit deer with our cars. It was kind of creepy when the grocery store started stocking venison.

[Count D20]

Because picking on PETA is fun.

cause they contain the lunatic fringe of animal rights. look up Ingrid Newkirk's will.

[Brickwall]

What? Why did this turn into another argument about vegetarians? This is a thread about a naked chick with cutlets drawn on her. It's like the ultimate gift to men.

I would like to check the quality of the breast before buying, please and thank you. :smallbiggrin:

[dish]

So we've agreed that Peta are the lunatic fringe of animal rights.

Have we managed to agree that just because Peta exists that doesn't mean that ALL vegetarians (or even vegans) are weird/strange/insane.

When thinking about what humans eat, we do need to pay attention to geography and climate. In certain regions of the world: Arctic circle, Tibetan plateau, etc, the native peoples eat an extremely meat and animal product diet. This is because agriculture is practically impossible in those areas.
Then consider the fertile plains of central India, which managed to produce several world religions advocating varying degrees of vegetarian/veganism (Hindu, Buddhist, Jain). Obviously under certain conditions it is possible to get complete and balanced nutrition from plant sources.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Sadly, this isn't even close to the worst stuff that PETA does.

They've compared eating meat to the holocaust...using gruesome visuals as necessary.

I'm not a vegetarian, I know vegetarians, nothing is wrong with either of us.

Some animals eat other animals, some animals don't.

However, if you think that you shouldn't the issue should be that its wrong, not that it's icky...PETA isn't about ethical treatment, it's about trying to shock and disgust everyone who disagrees with them.

[BlackStaticWolf]

What? Why did this turn into another argument about vegetarians? This is a thread about a naked chick with cutlets drawn on her. It's like the ultimate gift to men.

I would like to check the quality of the breast before buying, please and thank you. :smallbiggrin:

Nah, the ultimate gift would be if she were also carrying a couple beers. :smallwink:

[The Boyce]

It's funny because if America stopped eating meat, there would be a huge rise in chicken, cow, and pig death as farmer's could no longer make a profit off them, though chickens for eggs and milk cows would be kept around. If we took it a step further and became a vegan nation, cow and chicken mass slaughter.

If you say we could just release them into the wild you'd see a sharp increase in predator population, followed by decline as the cows were overhunted or died in winter.

[Semidi]

I've flirted with parts of the Animal Rights movement before (Though I don't think animals have rights, I'm not even sure if people do, but that's a different discussion). And I dislike PETA. A lot. Militant vegans also annoy me a bit, mostly because their ideas are philosophically shaky. Though, not as shaky as some carnivores.

Their inane publicity stunts detract from the real issues, and make the AR movement seem like a joke. I.e. their "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaign. PETA has done a lot of good work... in the 80s. Now they're a joke.

I'm a vegetarian who would be completely vegan if I was slightly less picky about ordering in restaurants and wearing leather. I don't see much of a point of letting whatever cow die even more needlessly by throwing my boots, which I bought before changing my views. Well, that, and I've never seen what the big deal is with using honey and wax. And I don't agree with all parts of the vegan philosophy. But that's another thread. I'm not going to go into the arguments for vegetarianism because this is the wrong thread for that. If someone were to make a thread, I'd do a short write up.


So we've agreed that Peta are the lunatic fringe of animal rights.

PETA is tame. There are far more militant members of the AR movement. You know, people who do more than picket and get naked, people who do things like firebomb labs where vivisection takes place, break fur store windows, and raid farms.

[CrazedGoblin]

im all up for animal rights n stuff but PETA have issues, SERIOUS issues

[reorith]

Nah, the ultimate gift would be if she were also carrying a couple beers. :smallwink:

and if she was already cooked.

[Rogue 7]

Just imagine if there were plant right activists. That would be amusing.

But seriously, PETA's arguments will never have any effect on me, particularly if they believe that my neighbor's dog, who has lived for something like 14 years now all nice and happy in a warm house with regular food and plenty of stuff to do is being enslaved. That's just dense.

Remember, folks. Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder.

[Eldritch_Ent]

The provlem with PETA is, is they're pretty far up on the misanthropy scale.

As far as the " Animal VS Humans Rights" position is-
Normal person- Humans > Animals
PETA- Animals = Humans
Animal Liberation Front- Animals > Humans

The problem is that they place too much value on the lives and happiness of animals, placing their needs equal to or even above those of people. I say- until dolphins, monkeys, and pigs start building cities or develop a translatable language, they're tasty! (Same with horses and baby seals. Mmm mmm.)
Well, actually monkey meat is bad for you- you can get diseases like HIV and stuff from it, but the other stuff is good!

Another thing people don't like about PETA members is, like Cuddly so ably demonstrated, they love equating "meat eater" with "sadist". It's like they believe they live in an old Captain Planet cartoon, where the villains love to pollute for no other reason except they like to pollute.

Then again, people DO like to eat animals because they like to eat animals. Hmm. :smallconfused: But it's still a false relation between "Leather wearer" and "Mass murderer".

[SurlySeraph]

now you've lost me. what about veganism drives you into a confused rage? is it the whole not consuming milk/eggs/honey thing? or the whole "lolz i live a cruelty life and i'm a better person than you thing?" or is it something completely different?

It's a combination of the pretension/ self-righteousness and the utter senselessness. It angers me to hear someone bragging about not using animal products when doing so has little net impact on how animals are treated. Besides, if everyone stopped eating animal products, we'd just kill all the domestic animals. Eating meat causes animals to be slaughtered for meat, but eating eggs and milk provides an incentive to keep the animals that produce eggs and milk alive. It's a much less healthy diet than vegetarianism or a normal diet, it can harm the environment because animal products are often easier and more efficient to produce than soy-based substitutes that are exactly the same, and it's just illogical.

[Smiley_]

Just imagine if there were plant right activists. That would be amusing.


Actually, plants have shown quite a bit of, while I wouldn't call it inteligence, quirks. They can tell related plants apart and share water with them, or they can elect to try to choke out that annoying rosebush next door.

Plant's are constantly waging war with each other and the world around them, far more then animals with each other, but this is on a much slower scale.

As for the idea that nature lies on some perfect equilibrium that humans ruin, nothing could be further from the truth. Lifeforms live to survive, and if you can kill those stupid ospreys down the river by choking them so you do not have to compete with them, all the beter. Look at the times before humans were around. Many species in the fossil record don't make it past the 10,000 year mark. Trilobites were so prolific that they could eat all the slop on the ocean floor before anything else got to it. Theropods pushed aside many of the weaker animals, killed off the larger mamals, and became what we know as dinosaurs.

Nature is mean, folks. Live with it.

[Johnny Blade]

Their inane publicity stunts detract from the real issues, and make the AR movement seem like a joke. I.e. their "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaign. PETA has done a lot of good work... in the 80s. Now they're a joke.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
The point about equality they're trying to make is kinda obvious - if you already know it, at least.
And it's a good one, too. I dare anyone who disagrees with it to, for example, come up with a working foundation for human rights excluding animals that is both based on a reasonable rationale and doesn't lead to implications like "Cannibalism is okay. If you only eat retards, at least.". Anyway, this is really not the place to dig deeper into this.

However, what PETA does is, as this thread shows, just asking for all kinds of well-deserved ridicule. Really, treating this silly ad as serious business (!!!) seems to be more or less impossible to me.

Oh well, at least it's not some celebrity trying to show how very, very concerned she is with ... all that bad stuff going on and such this time.

[Gitman00]

and if she was already cooked.

See, that's the problem with that kind of propaganda. As it is, the ad is, let's face it, juxtaposing sexuality with food. It's a pretty easy leap to make, really. Just look at all the comments from people who would love to "eat her up". It's not going to disgust people, it's going to turn them on and make them hungry; two things which often go hand-in-hand anyway.

If they made it look like she was cooked, it would certainly shock and disgust those who saw it, but I still somehow doubt it would change anyone's mind. It would just make them think, "Jeez. What's wrong with PETA?" Also, it would be harder to get it past the censors.

Bottom line, an ad like this isn't going to change anyone's mind, and it'll probably tip those on the fence in the opposite direction from what PETA obviously wants. As you can see by the debates on this thread, it's just going to affirm the beliefs people already have, whichever side they choose.

[The Rose Dragon]

Man, this thread makes me hungry. I would make myself a salami sandwich, but there are two problems. One, they are easy to make and eat in large amounts, and two, I already had three and a chicken royale tonight. And chips.

Also, they are so delicious. How do you people ever live without the awesomeness that is salami sandwiches?

[Smiley_]

Salami: The king of lunchmeats. I concur.

[BlackStaticWolf]

and if she was already cooked.

I actually prefer my naked woman-flesh uncooked. I dunno, there's just something about third degree burns that seems unappetizing. :smallwink:


But it's still a false relation between "Leather wearer" and "Mass murderer".

Preach on brother! The fact that I wear leather has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a mass murderer!

Other than the fact that I make the leather from my victims' skin.

[Jayngfet]

Why are you guys getting so defensive over eating meat? Trying to justify that killing for pleasure is ok?

I like to beat dogs.
You like to eat beat cow.

What's the difference? Immediacy?
Is that how you justify it?

meat eater here but ...don't we raise one to force feed and steriodise and kill?


anyway on to the main topic, odds are they should've picked someone pore appropriate, a fat hairy woman would've been better for this.

[Querzis]

I dunno why but I just think that picture is hilarious. Probably because thats a really dumb comparison and because, as many people already said, she really look delicious :smallamused:

Anyway, thats a pretty big debate over just a picture. Well anyway, if you are a veggie because you dont like the taste of meat or for health reason then I have no problem with it. Even though I do think meat is good for your health, some people also think drinking piss is good for your health and nobody seems to agree on what is good and what isnt good to eat so I really dont care anymore.

But if you are a veggie for humanitarian reason well sorry but that just make me laugh. We never almost destroyed an entire species by eating them. Almost all the species that were entirely killed by mankinds (and I agree there is a lot) went extinct because we destroyed their habitat. And they didnt die the painless 'get shoot in the head' death either, more like the 'dying of hunger in agonizing pain' death. There is also lots of species we destroyed just for parts of their bodies like with ivory or the gorilla we killed to make ash tray with their hands. Or the species we killed for pleasure. As a matter of fact, the only species that never went almost extinct because of us are our pets and the species we eat (since we eat beef and pigs, we also gotta take good care of them).

There is actually some species of fish that almost went extinct because we eat them however but nobody talk about that...I guess its because fish arent as cute as veal or seal. Seriously, its just really ridiculous how PETA just protect the cute animals, even those who arent actually in danger of extinction.

So really, if you want to help animals then live in brick house and stop using papers or cardboard because deforestation is what really endangers animals (or pollution for marine animals).


As for the idea that nature lies on some perfect equilibrium that humans ruin, nothing could be further from the truth.

On the other hand, thats totally wrong. Sure nature is not some kind of perfect equilibrium but humans stopped being part of nature when we became so freaking powerfull we could easely destroy the entire planet or kill every other species in the world if we would want to. Hell, even if we dont want to we are probably still going to do that with pollution anyway.

[SurlySeraph]

But if you are a veggie for humanitarian reason well sorry but that just make me laugh. We never destroyed an entire species by eating them. Almost all the species that were entirely killed by mankinds (and I agree there is a lot) went extinct because we destroyed their habitat.

Actually, we have. Great auks, passenger pigeons, aurochs (the precursors to cows), possibly mammoths, and some others.

[The Extinguisher]

Everyone knows Human's taste like pork, not cow, as the picture implied.
...or so I heard. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrSoIHeard)

Also, Carrot Juice is Murder! Give peas a chance!

[zeratul]

Actually, we have. Great auks, passenger pigeons, aurochs (the precursors to cows), possibly mammoths, and some others.

Not to mention the dodo, but I digress...

In any case we have DNA of many many animals today. If one goes extinct, then once we perfect cloning we can make more of them. I'm all for treating animals well, but they're delicious so I'm going to keep eating meat. (I am however against killing an animal just for the hell of it, without harvesting it's meat, fur, etc.)

[Querzis]

Actually, we have. Great auks, passenger pigeons, aurochs (the precursors to cows), possibly mammoths, and some others.

Dude we domesticated auroch and it later became the cows we know today, I dont get how this count as 'killed because we ate them'. Anything that has some descendant wasnt really exterminated as much as it evolved. And the primary cause of extinctions for both passenger pigeons and mammoth were loss of habitat (though the loss of habitat of mammoth wasnt actually our fault). Dunno about the greek auks but I changed the never to almost never just for you :smallwink:

It still got nothing on the thousands of species we destroyed in other ways though. You cant deny the fact that the main species we eat right now (cows and pigs) are in no danger of extinction whatsoever.

Edit: Dodo also went extinct mostly because we destroyed their forest Zeratul. Well that and because we brought lots of animals with us who ate Dodo, especially dogs and cats.

[The Extinguisher]

And billions that we had no part in whatsoever.
Your point?

[sktarq]

Someone made a few comments back on page 2 about cows and bears.
Cows have actually shrunk quite a bit since domestication. the Anouch (which brought us the letter A-no kid) was the wild for which was hunted out in the 1600's It was known to be fast and mean. I've heard of studies that say they had very high adrenalin levels but almost all wild counterparts have comparitivly high levels.
Bears taste great. Cross the texture of wild boar with the richness of ostritch. However while the Anu people of Japan raised bear cubs for slaughter tthey are not really well suited for being packed in large groups, breeding in captivity, and have been too hard to control until modern meathods were developed to make the multi century process of domestication viable until recently. However experiments are supposedly underway. As with Musk Ox, Eland, Moose/Elk (same thing), Elk/Wapati, and the Tarkin. Although I haven't heard much about the Tarkin recently so it may have fallen through.

Add to list of animals we ate out existance. Several kinds of Giant Island Tortoise, Large madagascar lemurs, several kind of antelope, Moas, most of the larger ground birds in the pacific in general, Now we probably did the same for most of the megafauna of australia and the americas as well but we can't be totally positive on that.
And no we didn't eat the Dodo out of existance-It's meat was tough and stringy and bigg tortoises were readily avalibe still and were good balst on sailing ships to boot. We beat all the dodos to death for kicks.

[Cuddly]

As for the idea that nature lies on some perfect equilibrium that humans ruin, nothing could be further from the truth. Lifeforms live to survive, and if you can kill those stupid ospreys down the river by choking them so you do not have to compete with them, all the beter. Look at the times before humans were around. Many species in the fossil record don't make it past the 10,000 year mark. Trilobites were so prolific that they could eat all the slop on the ocean floor before anything else got to it. Theropods pushed aside many of the weaker animals, killed off the larger mamals, and became what we know as dinosaurs.

The current rate of extinction is about that of the K-T boundary, when a huge asteroid smashed into earth and killed the dinosaurs. But there hasn't been any asteroids.

Gee, I wonder what's been turning the world's most diverse ecosystems into SUVs and fine mahogany desks?

[Querzis]

And billions that we had no part in whatsoever.
Your point?

Already made my point, we could easely kill every other species in the world if we want to and even if we dont want to we are going to if we keep up like that.

Not that it really bother me since I'm too lazy to do anything about it and I'm a bastard anyway. But at least, I do realize its going to happen.

But seriously, since species who evolve dont count as being extinct, I really dont think a billions species have been extinct until now...or at the very least, there wasnt a billion before we started to destroy the planet.

Edit: wait, I didnt though about the insects. Thats bound to raise the numbers a lot...well I dunno, you should probably ask an environmentalist.

[Rogue 7]

the Tarkin. Although I haven't heard much about the Tarkin recently so it may have fallen through.


I could not possibly ever eat something like that without many Star Wars jokes.


The current rate of extinction is about that of the K-T boundary, when a huge asteroid smashed into earth and killed the dinosaurs. But there hasn't been any asteroids.

Gee, I wonder what's been turning the world's most diverse ecosystems into SUVs and fine mahogany desks?
I think that that's debatable, speaking as a fairly concerned environmentalist. We're causing a great deal of damage, but I don't think it's quite that high, especially as we discover new species.

[Cuddly]

Not to mention the dodo, but I digress...

Dogs, pigs & rats. Too stupid to run away. I don't think it was hunted to extinction so much as it was totally naive about what was introduced, and as a large, flightless, grown dwelling bird, it made easy prey.


In any case we have DNA of many many animals today. If one goes extinct, then once we perfect cloning we can make more of them. I'm all for treating animals well, but they're delicious so I'm going to keep eating meat. (I am however against killing an animal just for the hell of it, without harvesting it's meat, fur, etc.)

I'm not sure why you can't just kill an animal for the hell of it? Maybe you don't live in a post-industrial westernized society and must cherish every little scrap of food and material you come across, but I come from a society where we produce more waste than the average person consumes.

You eat meat because it's delicious. I smash kittens because I like the way kittens look inside out. What's the difference?

[Cuddly]

I think that that's debatable, speaking as a fairly concerned environmentalist. We're causing a great deal of damage, but I don't think it's quite that high, especially as we discover new species.

Scientists think differently:
http://www.well.com/~davidu/extinction.html

[Rogue 7]

Some scientists do. Not all. I'm not saying that we aren't causing extinctions, or even mass extinctions- we are, just not on that level. Trust me, I know a good deal of general scientific stuff on the environment.

[Cuddly]

Some scientists do. Not all. I'm not saying that we aren't causing extinctions, or even mass extinctions- we are, just not on that level. Trust me, I know a good deal of general scientific stuff on the environment.

On that level (you should look up what rate means)?
You are saying this based on... your feelings?

[sktarq]

Okay on the KT boundry stuff.
Firstly I am a rather committed enviro. Being put in ecology classes in 2nd grade and spending most of your time outdoors will do that.
Later I went to a HS with a museum of Paleo on campus. The students were the labor force in many ways. I spent long hours sorting river bed sands looking for multiteburculate teeth to do population research on either side of the KT boundry maked by the Z coal of the Hells Creek formation of Eastern Montana. As part of a larger work looking into the losses of non-telecost fish, mammals, anphibians (whose LACK of die off for their smaller groups raises huge concerns about how much the dust cloud kicked up by the asteroid actually did to knock out the dinos), the last of the trilobites, etc I spent enough time that by the time I graduated I knew more about certain parts of paleo than all but those who hadn't published their research yet. (It was that which funny enough got me to not follow Paleo further). I've kept resonably updated and still pick up the original articles when I can. My ideas on the comment of KT boundry level extinction going on right now.
Yeah we are. I'd actually saw we are working towards the Permian extinction rate within 100 years.
Megafaunal rates are not being meatured from written records but from pre human indroduction level thus the cow sized wombats in australia would be included in this same event. There is still a rather firey debate about how long the KT extinction took to occur. It varies from a few years by Yucatan death stone desk thumpers to a half million years at the other end.
Sea life samples show marked drops in divercity in main estuary areas. With Mircofossil studies showing loch ness Nemotodal levels actually wedre once common. In fact diversity hotspots seem to catch more human damage than non. Medeterainian climate zones, coral reefs, estuaries, and Rainforests are all major hotspots of human impact.
Short version. Yep we are the asteroid.

[Jayngfet]

Not to mention the dodo, but I digress...

In any case we have DNA of many many animals today. If one goes extinct, then once we perfect cloning we can make more of them. I'm all for treating animals well, but they're delicious so I'm going to keep eating meat. (I am however against killing an animal just for the hell of it, without harvesting it's meat, fur, etc.)

*random mugging*

...*thinks a bit*, oh sorry.

*skins victim for shiny new boots*, BBQ time!

[Mattarias, King.]

:eek:

Wait, wait...

You're telling me that woman is made out of MEAT?! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gaFZTAOb7IE)

Egad! Mm, now I'm hungry..

[Serpentine]

Stellar's sea cow was eaten to extinction. The first (and last) scientist to describe it included its deliciousness. They were all gone within 30 years. We also got damn close to eating blue whales to death, too. Now, before you say "no no no! Whales were killed for their oil and stuff as well!", that's nothing but semantics. We killed them, and we ate them, and we got other stuff out of them as well. They were still just as dead, and just as almost extinct. There is plenty of evidence that we have "eaten animals out of existance", or at least that that was a significant contributer to their extinction. On the other hand, it's not likely to happen to cattle and sheep anytime soon.

But seriously, since species who evolve dont count as being extinctUh... Yeah, they do. Velociraptor may have evolved into birds. That doesn't make the velociraptor any less extinct. Furthermore, evolution isn't linear. It doesn't go (or rather, doesn't just go) from one to the other to the next. If it did, the number of animals existing would stay exactly the same - specifically, "1". They branch and change and split, and branches die off or turn into something else or split yet again. For example, during the megafauna time in Australia, there were, for the sake of argument, 3 species of kangaroo. One giant, one giant carnivorous, one "ordinary"-sized. The giant and the carnivore, for one reason or another, died off, ceased to exist. Lets say, one got eaten and the other couldn't handle the competition from dingoes and humans. They're dead, gone, never coming back. Part of the "ordinary" one became the red kangaroo, and another part became the eastern grey. Maybe eventually the red 'roo will die off, while the grey will split into the whitish kangaroo and the black 'roo.
To make this all relevant: There is a big difference between "rate of extinction" and "rate of speciation", which are both completely different statistics and well taken into account when working out these things.

Cuddly: If you really can't see the difference, you're very, very sick. There is a very big difference between "I need food or I'll starve and I need shoes or I my feet will hurt, so I'll kill this animal in as quick and painless a way as I can and make sure I use everything I can" and "inflicting pain is fun!"

My sister figures that she doesn't need to feel guilty because she uses the whole cow: She eats steak, she wears leather, she likes jelly and other gelatin-containing substances, and she eats pies, sausages and other foodstuffs containing unidentifyable "meat".

On "plants' rights": Fruitarians, anyone? Please tell me they really exist so's I can make fun of them. But no, plants don't want to be eaten. Why do you think they grow spikes, spines, hairs, thorns, long thin stems, poisons, brambles, tough leaves, nasty flavours, etc. etc. so on and so forth?

[Serpentine]

Stellar's sea cow was eaten to extinction. The first (and last) scientist to describe it included its deliciousness. They were all gone within 30 years. We also got damn close to eating blue whales to death, too. Now, before you say "no no no! Whales were killed for their oil and stuff as well!", that's nothing but semantics. We killed them, and we ate them, and we got other stuff out of them as well. They were still just as dead, and just as almost extinct. There is plenty of evidence that we have "eaten animals out of existance", or at least that that was a significant contributer to their extinction. On the other hand, it's not likely to happen to cattle and sheep anytime soon.

But seriously, since species who evolve dont count as being extinctUh... Yeah, they do. Velociraptor may have evolved into birds. That doesn't make the velociraptor any less extinct. Furthermore, evolution isn't linear. It doesn't go (or rather, doesn't just go) from one to the other to the next. If it did, the number of animals existing would stay exactly the same - specifically, "1". They branch and change and split, and branches die off or turn into something else or split yet again. For example, during the megafauna time in Australia, there were, for the sake of argument, 3 species of kangaroo. One giant, one giant carnivorous, one "ordinary"-sized. The giant and the carnivore, for one reason or another, died off, ceased to exist. Lets say, one got eaten and the other couldn't handle the competition from dingoes and humans. They're dead, gone, never coming back. Part of the "ordinary" one became the red kangaroo, and another part became the eastern grey. Maybe eventually the red 'roo will die off, while the grey will split into the whitish kangaroo and the black 'roo.
To make this all relevant: There is a big difference between "rate of extinction" and "rate of speciation", which are both completely different statistics and well taken into account when working out these things.

Cuddly: If you really can't see the difference, you're very, very sick. There is a very big difference between "I need food or I'll starve and I need shoes or I my feet will hurt, so I'll kill this animal in as quick and painless a way as I can and make sure I use everything I can" and "inflicting pain is fun!"

My sister figures that she doesn't need to feel guilty because she uses the whole cow: She eats steak, she wears leather, she likes jelly and other gelatin-containing substances, and she eats pies, sausages and other foodstuffs containing unidentifyable "meat".

On "plants' rights": Fruitarians, anyone? Please tell me they really exist so's I can make fun of them. But no, plants don't want to be eaten. Why do you think they grow spikes, spines, hairs, thorns, long thin stems, poisons, brambles, tough leaves, nasty flavours, etc. etc. so on and so forth?

[Bluelantern]

I agree. Everyone should have a tail. And wings. And horns. Horns would be cool.

All I am asking is hand instead of feet, imagine how usefull would they be! =D

Also, PETA means People Eating Tasty Animals :smallamused:

[Cuddly]

If you really can't see the difference, you're very, very sick. There is a very big difference between "I need food or I'll starve and I need shoes or I my feet will hurt, so I'll kill this animal in as quick and painless a way as I can and make sure I use everything I can" and "inflicting pain is fun!"

So when was the last time you had to kill an animal because you were starving? Oh, that's right, you're an Australian. You've never known hunger, and don't need much meat to survive.

Eating meat is as much a taste issue as my enjoyment of destroying small animals. Neither one of us needs to, but my, it's fun disintegrating birds with a shotgun!

[streakster]

Sorry, Cuddly. All humanity kills things to live, directly (slaughterhouse, garden) or indirectly(paying someone to kill for you - ie, grocery stores). You can choose just to kill plants (which still, ironically, kills animals: Combines squash quite a few mice, vole, weasels, etc.) or to kill both animals and plants, but you have to accept that things must die for you to live.

That hypothetical kitten's death, however, didn't aid your survival at all. Pain for the sake of inflicting pain alone.

[Justyn]

So when was the last time you had to kill an animal because you were starving? Oh, that's right, you're an Australian. You've never known hunger, and don't need much meat to survive.

Eating meat is as much a taste issue as my enjoyment of destroying small animals. Neither one of us needs to, but my, it's fun disintegrating birds with a shotgun!

Allow me to say:

OBVIOUS TROLL IS OBVIOUS!

This person is either a troll, or a sociopath. Either way, Cuddly should be ignored.

[reorith]

It's a combination of the pretension/ self-righteousness and the utter senselessness. It angers me to hear someone bragging about not using animal products when doing so has little net impact on how animals are treated. Besides, if everyone stopped eating animal products, we'd just kill all the domestic animals. Eating meat causes animals to be slaughtered for meat, but eating eggs and milk provides an incentive to keep the animals that produce eggs and milk alive. It's a much less healthy diet than vegetarianism or a normal diet, it can harm the environment because animal products are often easier and more efficient to produce than soy-based substitutes that are exactly the same, and it's just illogical.

alright man. now we're on the same page.

[Cuddly]

Sorry, Cuddly. All humanity kills things to live, directly (slaughterhouse, garden) or indirectly(paying someone to kill for you - ie, grocery stores). You can choose just to kill plants (which still, ironically, kills animals: Combines squash quite a few mice, vole, weasels, etc.) or to kill both animals and plants, but you have to accept that things must die for you to live.

Indirectly killing some field mice while collecting what you need to survive is different than raising delicious food animals in high density feed lots (which I'm sure you have never seen in person) because it's what you prefer.

Incidentally, eating meat uses 10x as much energy as eating grass. So eating cows kills 10x as many voles and stuff, since those cows all needed food collected by the combine.


That hypothetical kitten's death, however, didn't aid your survival at all. Pain for the sake of inflicting pain alone.

My point, that you continue to ignore, is that forcing cows to live in horribly cruel conditions where they will literally rot to death if not fed litres of antibiotics (ozzie cows have the luxury to roam around in the outback before they are slaughtered) isn't necessary to your survival. They taste great, but your enjoyment is contingent on their pain. They must suffer since you prefer burger of soy (me too). I'm cool with that. Are you?

[Cobra_Ikari]

...regardless of the ethics of eating meat (which I don't care to get into)...

PETA is evil.

[Cuddly]

Well, PETA certainly doesn't value human life.

[Rare Pink Leech]

I imagine it would affirm a man's meat-eating and heterosexuality simultaneously, however.

I am not embarrassed to say this is more or less what the ad accomplishes for me :smallbiggrin:

[Lilly]

Please don't let this thread get too political or controversial, thank you.

[Smiley_]

:smallsigh:

People are going to have opinions that anger others, and those people will defend their own positions. It is inevitable.

Also, let me turn your attention to the Sahara desert. Big blob of blech that keeps getting bigger. What started it though? Before any real civilization emerged, North African tribes raised cattle, or more precisely, cows. However, they did not eat these cattle. They kept them alive and milked them. In times of famine, they bled the herds, but did not kill them off to eat them.

What happened? There were too many cows for the environment and the vegetation could not grow back as quickly as it should have, so the Sahara spread far mor rapidly then it had ever done.

Why? Because the cattle were not killed off for food.

Everything is extremely complex. In fact, cows are evolutionarily advanced. Since we rely so much on them for food and production, we have essentially ensured their species survival. Same with other domesticated livestock and plants like corn and cotton.

[Cuddly]

What's your source for that? For a 3 million year old desert, that seems a bit spurious.

[Mee]

What? The People for the Eating of Tasty Animals?
What's wrong with them? :smalltongue:

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Thread locked for review. Please stand by.