How to raise yourself from the dead? and other questions about living forever?

[kentma57]

I am currently playing a 15th level character with 250,000gp to burn and I need to figure out how to bring myself back from the dead without level loss. This is what I have:

Step 1- 1/week an magic item plays a recorded message; first activating a command word then providing an unambiguously identify of myself
Step 2- 1/week True Resurrection is activated by the command word and then picks it's target (from the description) and attempts to raise it.
Step 3- If I am alive, I count as a invalid target and the spell fails. If I am dead it brings me back (no body required)
Step 4- Bring my old body/gear back to me (1/week teleport any object) and/or leave my base (1/week greater teleport)

Note: All the items above reside in my stronghold.

As for other questions; Why can't polymorph be used to lower your physical (but not mental) age? It is a permanent(at least until you use it again) change and provides all physical bebefits, why can't I polymorph to myself when I was 19? Is it more balanced to become a dargon in it's prime than to simply become a few years younger?

[SoD]

The way I see it, the way to live forever: when you hit venerable, get a druid to kill you, and then cast reincarnation on you. Sure, you're a random race, but you come back as a young adult. Then, when you hit venerable again, rinse and repeat.

[kentma57]

The way I see it, the way to live forever: when you hit venerable, get a druid to kill you, and then cast reincarnation on you. Sure, you're a random race, but you come back as a young adult. Then, when you hit venerable again, rinse and repeat.

Good idea, though I am not sure I would enjoy changing my race every X years...

[Ascension]

You want to raise yourself from the dead?

Step One: Be Jesus.

It's much easier just to pay an NPC cleric some exorbitant amount of money to come raise you. And this is assuming you don't have a cleric in the party to raise you in the first place. As for the level loss, there's always ye olde thought bottle...

[Douglas]

It can be dispelled, but Death Pact from the Spell Compendium gives you a 1-use contingent True Resurrection for the cost of only 1000 gp in diamonds and a -2 con penalty.

Pact of Return from Heroes of Horror does the same thing for no cost, no penalty, and a 1 level lower spell slot, but doesn't have a permanent until discharged duration and requires that you specify the cause of death (hit point damage is specifically called out as not specific enough), though you can have one casting for every likely cause of death you can think of and whichever one applies will work.

[Funkyodor]

Or you could make/buy/have made a one time use item of Contingency Word of Recall upon the owners death. This way you also get to keep your stuff.

If you've got a stronghold, then you probably have people maintaining the grounds like a butler/maid/groundskeeper. Just have another item made for one time use True Resurrection, call it Balm of Life. Give him a bonus when the NPC delivers.

[Feralgeist]

being a lich only costs like...240 k, right?
spend the leftovers on hiding your phylactery

[kentma57]

I am not much of a caster and then I would have to pay for level adjustment...

[Gorbash]

Who cares? You're a lich, you have the eternity to get them back!

[Azerian Kelimon]

If it's the character I'm thinking of....

Not exactly.

Mirror image would probably be a better lifesaver.

Or a few levels of Death Delver.

[kentma57]

AK, how's it going and Mirror image would be a good idea for later...

[Azerian Kelimon]

Really, if I was going from a player perspective, there'd be no doubt on the spell. Metal Guard. But that spell is banned, since I hate that kind of cheese.

Hmm...maybe one of those immediate spells, and using it to 'port away?

[kentma57]

Really, if I was going from a player perspective, there'd be no doubt on the spell. Metal Guard. But that spell is banned, since I hate that kind of cheese.

Hmm...maybe one of those immediate spells, and using it to 'port away?

Metal Guard, never seen it? Could the triger on a teleport item be my death?

EDIT: While your here AK what do you think of my plan at the top?

[Azerian Kelimon]

Unusuable. First off, stronghold money IS TO BE USED ON THE STRONGHOLD. YOU are NOT the stronghold. The money is to be used to get defenses for the stronghold, guardians, etc. NOT to cheat off the WBL rules.

Example: Spellwarp towers are a fine use of the money, s'long as they stay on your turf.

Example of things not to do: But using that money to get an epic weapon early is NOT allowed.

Second, that's a multilayered, extremely powerful group of spells. The cost would be insane.

[Aquillion]

Getting a 9th-level spell with a 25,000 gp material cost 1/week is going to have an absurd price. If you pay the materials every time it's cast instead, it's even worse, since you'll have to pay regardless of whether or not it fails.

A much simpler solution: Cast, or get someone to cast, Gate for a creature with resurrection or high-level cleric-list casting abilities (a candle of invocation works here.) Negotiate for an extended service in which the creature regularly checks up on you using some sort of cheap low-level scrying (or even sending or whatever). If you're dead, they true resurrect you and restore you to some place of safety you specify.

Note the wording in Gate:

If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards. (Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications.) Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane.

Failure to fulfill the promise to the letter results in your being subjected to service by the creature or by its liege and master, at the very least. At worst, the creature or its kin may attack you. In other words, you'll probably just have to pay for the cost of the spells cast -- and you definitely won't have to pay the cost of resurrection until after they've done it (when, one way or the other, you'd probably have to pay that cost anyway.) If you use a creature that has true resurrection as an SLA, you could even reasonably argue that you don't have to pay the 25,000 gp (since, after all, they're not paying it), just the usual costs for a level 9 spell (which is far far less.)

Anyone can do this trick with a candle of invocation... and unlike some other dirty Gate tricks, there's a chance your DM might actually allow it to an extent, since if it ever 'triggers' it'll only be doing so as an alternative to a TPK. (Plus, there will be lots of room for plot hooks if you have trouble paying the creature off.)

[valadil]

Levels in sand shaper can get you resurrected if your body is buried in wasteland. Contingent teleports are way easier than contingent true rez.

[kentma57]

Good points on price I might just chain a True Resurrection of a Contingent teleport, (no problems with that AK) I always thought a hospital/place of healing was an acceptable use of stronghold funds, I can just save up my own money to by the True Resurrection thing. (your campaign worries me and I want to be ready)

[Mewtarthio]

Pact of Return from Heroes of Horror does the same thing for no cost, no penalty, and a 1 level lower spell slot, but doesn't have a permanent until discharged duration and requires that you specify the cause of death (hit point damage is specifically called out as not specific enough), though you can have one casting for every likely cause of death you can think of and whichever one applies will work.

Better yet: Specify heart failure. Your head was chopped off? Looks like an interruption in the connection between your brain stem and your heart caused the latter organ to fail. Insane cultists cut your heart out? Wow, it seems as though the organ somehow exited your chest and stopped beating. You get killed by a disintigrate spell? Well, I certainly wouldn't consider spontaneously turning to dust to be a heart success...

[kentma57]

Better yet: Specify heart failure. Your head was chopped off? Looks like an interruption in the connection between your brain stem and your heart caused the latter organ to fail. Insane cultists cut your heart out? Wow, it seems as though the organ somehow exited your chest and stopped beating. You get killed by a disintigrate spell? Well, I certainly wouldn't consider spontaneously turning to dust to be a heart success...

I had that conversation once...

[Aquillion]

Better yet: Specify heart failure. Your head was chopped off? Looks like an interruption in the connection between your brain stem and your heart caused the latter organ to fail. Insane cultists cut your heart out? Wow, it seems as though the organ somehow exited your chest and stopped beating. You get killed by a disintigrate spell? Well, I certainly wouldn't consider spontaneously turning to dust to be a heart success...Loss of blood to the brain is better.

[DementedFellow]

I suggest using the Walker in the Waste progression from Sandstorm to become a dry lich. You get 4 phylaceries (sp?) and they cost a mere portion of what a usual one does. Hide them in special places and have your guards ...guard them.

The only real thing you lose out on is two spellcaster levels. Oh and you're undead who can't be touched by normal water, else it BURNS. Aside from that you're peaches.

[kentma57]

SandStorm is fun :smallbiggrin:.

[Ascension]

The only real thing you lose out on is two spellcaster levels. Oh and you're undead who can't be touched by normal water, else it BURNS. Aside from that you're peaches.

It's the Wicked Witch's prestige class! Does it require you to scream "I'm mellllllting!" if you ever get hit by water?

[Crow]

You could get a contingent reincarnation cast on yourself? Contingent upon death.

There's no way that isn't fun!

[Triaxx]

Reincarnation is even more fun if you use the genderbender house rule. Odds are male, evens female. So not only do you change race, you might well end up changing gender.

Especially entertaining in a campaign with BoEF, or where two characters... spend the night rolling skill checks...

[Jack_Simth]

I am currently playing a 15th level character with 250,000gp to burn and I need to figure out how to bring myself back from the dead without level loss. This is what I have:

Step 1- 1/week an magic item plays a recorded message; first activating a command word then providing an unambiguously identify of myself
Step 2- 1/week True Resurrection is activated by the command word and then picks it's target (from the description) and attempts to raise it.
Step 3- If I am alive, I count as a invalid target and the spell fails. If I am dead it brings me back (no body required)
Step 4- Bring my old body/gear back to me (1/week teleport any object) and/or leave my base (1/week greater teleport)

Note: All the items above reside in my stronghold.

More reliable method:

Step 1) Craft a continuous item of Gentle Repose (should be pretty cheap, what with it being a 3rd level spell at 1 day/level)
Step 2) Clone yourself (1,000 gp, if you can cast it yourself, plus the cost of lab)
Step 3) Put Gentle Repose item on Clone, so it doesn't rot.
Step 4) Store your experiences in a thought bottle ... and come by and refresh it periodically (500 xp a pop, or some such).

The instant you die, your soul becomes available, and the Clone of you wakes up. You then read your experiences out of the Thought Bottle, bringing you (mostly) up to date, restoring the lost level and (more importantly) not giving any opportunity for you to be Soul Bind/Devoured by a Bhargast/turned into an undead - any one of which will prevent resurrection in D&D. I'm sure there's other methods.

Mind you - the Thought Bottle is waaaay too subject to abuse....

[Triaxx]

Reincarnation is even more fun if you use the genderbender house rule. Odds are male, evens female. So not only do you change race, you might well end up changing gender.

Especially entertaining in a campaign with BoEF, or where two characters... spend the night rolling skill checks...

[Triaxx]

Reincarnation is even more fun if you use the genderbender house rule. Odds are male, evens female. So not only do you change race, you might well end up changing gender.

Especially entertaining in a campaign with BoEF, or where two characters... spend the night rolling skill checks...

[Triaxx]

Reincarnation is even more fun if you use the genderbender house rule. Odds are male, evens female. So not only do you change race, you might well end up changing gender.

Especially entertaining in a campaign with BoEF, or where two characters... spend the night rolling skill checks...

[Jack_Simth]

Hey Triaxx, you do realize that you can check to see if your post went through by simply keeping the main forum open in another window and refreshing that, right?

[Jasdoif]

Hey Triaxx, you do realize that you can check to see if your post went through by simply keeping the main forum open in another window and refreshing that, right?Alternatively, just hit "preview post" instead of hitting "submit reply" again if submitting the post is taking too long. Once the preview goes through, you'll see your reply near the top of the topic review area if the submit went through.

I find that most of the time the site is slow, the submit goes through even though the page hangs.

[herrhauptmann]

More reliable method:

Step 1) Craft a continuous item of Gentle Repose (should be pretty cheap, what with it being a 3rd level spell at 1 day/level)
Step 2) Clone yourself (1,000 gp, if you can cast it yourself, plus the cost of lab)
Step 3) Put Gentle Repose item on Clone, so it doesn't rot.
Step 4) Store your experiences in a thought bottle ... and come by and refresh it periodically (500 xp a pop, or some such).

The instant you die, your soul becomes available, and the Clone of you wakes up. You then read your experiences out of the Thought Bottle, bringing you (mostly) up to date, restoring the lost level and (more importantly) not giving any opportunity for you to be Soul Bind/Devoured by a Bhargast/turned into an undead - any one of which will prevent resurrection in D&D. I'm sure there's other methods.

Mind you - the Thought Bottle is waaaay too subject to abuse....

Since that works, what can you do to ensure you don't end up as 15th level wizard with nothing but a single pair of clean clothes and a backup spellbook (assuming you made a backup...)

[Citizen Joe]

Try not getting killed.

Actually, if it isn't a TPK, your buds should bring back your stuff. If it is a TPK, then their clones should activate too.

You might also use Arcane Mark on your stuff and Instant Summons. Actually, you should be able to Arcane Mark yourself and prepare the Instant Summons. As soon as you die, your corpse becomes an item and thus summonable.

Edit: Actually, if you also have a crystal ball (with or without telepathy) your clone could then quickly scan the situation and bring back others too. Possibly marking a portable hole, wait for everyone to get in, then Instant Summons that back as well.

Actually, that may be a lucrative business to maintain clones and marks on adventurers. Then stick a magic mouth on the clone that announces when it wakes up so you know to crush the right Instant Summons gem for them.

When did DND turn into Paranoia?

[Jack_Simth]

Since that works, what can you do to ensure you don't end up as 15th level wizard with nothing but a single pair of clean clothes and a backup spellbook (assuming you made a backup...)
His budget is 250,000 gp. My plan costs under 25,000 (specifically, as a Wizard casting the spells personally, buying the Thought Bottle at market, it costs 20,000 gp (thought bottle) + 1,000 gp (cloning materials) + 500 gp (cloning lab) + 3,002 gp (Slotted widget of Continuous Gentle Repose, made by a Cleric) = 24,502 gp and 500 xp to set up, 1,000 gp each time it's used, and 500 xp each time you need to refresh the bottle. If I keep supplies sufficient for making 25 clones in the location, that still leaves 200,000 gp for other stuff - like a full backup of my entire library in Baccob's Blessed Book form (the entire SRD Sor/Wiz spell list fits in four with a little room to spare - and that includes 9th level spells - and they're only 12,500 gp each) for 50k, a Headband of Intellect +6 (36k), a Cloak of Resistence +5 (25k), an amulet of Health +6 (36k), or whatever. Then just Discern Location the lost stuff and retrieve it, one item at a time. I'm sure a Wizard can arrange that without too much trouble.

Then you just make sure that the place isn't readily accessable. Maybe polymorph into something that burrows and Disintegrate (Silent, Stilled, and Eschew Material'd) a cavity in solid rock somewhere, fill it with air (bottle of air, maybe) and proceed to secure it (plate with metal to avoid burrowing critters and earth glide, plate with lead to avoid scrying - or just Permanency Private Sanctum - and so on).

[Recaiden]

There was a wizards article about higher level psionic tatoos, which could include one that for example: dimension door/slides you out of combat, revivifies you, heals you, resets after a few weeks, and can be recharged by you if you have any power points.
And i saw a post somewhere else suggesting that if you reincarnate yourself to avoid old age repeatedly, maruts should be coming after you.

[Crow]

And i saw a post somewhere else suggesting that if you reincarnate yourself to avoid old age repeatedly, maruts should be coming after you.

That's a bunch of BS. In a world with Liches, Green Star Adepts (even though nobody takes that PrC), and other crap that lets you live forever...Sounds like a jerk DM.

[kentma57]

More reliable method:

Step 1) Craft a continuous item of Gentle Repose (should be pretty cheap, what with it being a 3rd level spell at 1 day/level)
Step 2) Clone yourself (1,000 gp, if you can cast it yourself, plus the cost of lab)
Step 3) Put Gentle Repose item on Clone, so it doesn't rot.
Step 4) Store your experiences in a thought bottle ... and come by and refresh it periodically (500 xp a pop, or some such).

The instant you die, your soul becomes available, and the Clone of you wakes up. You then read your experiences out of the Thought Bottle, bringing you (mostly) up to date, restoring the lost level and (more importantly) not giving any opportunity for you to be Soul Bind/Devoured by a Bhargast/turned into an undead - any one of which will prevent resurrection in D&D. I'm sure there's other methods.

Mind you - the Thought Bottle is waaaay too subject to abuse....

Fun but what book is the Thought Bottle found in?

[Jack_Simth]

That's a bunch of BS. In a world with Liches, Green Star Adepts (even though nobody takes that PrC), and other crap that lets you live forever...Sounds like a jerk DM.
Yes and no.

Dying of old age isn't a game-balance thing, so from that angle, it's really not an issue.

However, someone who claims the aging bonuses to mental stats stay, while the penalties to physical stats go away (the body is young, after all, but it's still the same mind) is progressively reducing game balance.

[rockdeworld]

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet:

Even true resurrection can’t restore to life a creature who has died of old age.
And it's fair to say that Maruts would come after you. That's not a jerk DM, that's DnD. Besides, if you want to live forever, there are races that you can choose that do that, but there's no point. As I read in a wise person's post: "Everyone wants to play an elf and live forever. I went with a halfling and had more than enough time to do everything in the campaign."

Besides, going over the age limit is like epic levels... Do I need to make an analogy? Like Jack_Smith said: you're just breaking down the game.

[Jack_Simth]

Fun but what book is the Thought Bottle found in?
Complete Arcane, page 150.

[kentma57]

Complete Arcane, page 150.

Thanks I will look it up when I get home...

[Mewtarthio]

More reliable method:

Step 1) Craft a continuous item of Gentle Repose (should be pretty cheap, what with it being a 3rd level spell at 1 day/level)
Step 2) Clone yourself (1,000 gp, if you can cast it yourself, plus the cost of lab)
Step 3) Put Gentle Repose item on Clone, so it doesn't rot.
Step 4) Store your experiences in a thought bottle ... and come by and refresh it periodically (500 xp a pop, or some such).

I've heard that the BoEF has a tunic of gentle repose or somesuch (it keeps you from decaying and also mantains your fertility--it was meant for undead, I think/hope/pray), so you don't even need to make a custom item. As an added bonus, if you're female or have access to genderbending magic, your contingency resurrector can double as a hassle-free heir production facility! :smallbiggrin:

:smalleek: ...I think I've crossed a line somewhere...

[Eurus]

Oh dear. That sounds like a very Mind-Flayer thing to do. Breeding clones to make slaves... *shudder*. Now I have to use that somehow.