Artifacts for my Party

[AstralFire]

I DM a low loot campaign, mostly because the party just doesn't get a chance to sit around and loot crap since they're often on the run to or away from something. I've compensated for this issue in a few ways. Due to a plot element, each got an item familiar/artifact that is connected to them, can only be used by them, and is meant to improve as they do. I don't have Weapons of Legacy, so I can't use it as a guideline.

Currently these weapons are being adjusted for level 12s. There's a fair amount of aesthetics and plot and stuff behind each, particularly the last, but I'd like to stick to the mechanics for this one. Magic item creation has always been an extremely weak point of my sense of balance, so help is appreciated.

As artifacts, these items are supposed to be more powerful than standard for a weapon, in part to even out the very few pieces of loot I hand them.

Thunderstrike
Kyrt; Shifter Unarmed Swordsage
+3 Brutal Surge Gauntlet. As a full-round action, you may strike the ground beneath you with a massive force. Creatures within the area of effect must make a DC (10+½Character Level+Str) reflex check or be knocked prone, taking unarmed damage. A successful save negates both the damage and the prone effect. The area of effect may be a 30 ft. line or 20 ft. cone emanating from you, or 10 ft. radius circle centered on you. Feats, maneuvers and abilities which temporarily modify your unarmed damage such as Power Attack, Sneak Attack, and Rapid Strike do not apply.

Thunderstrike also grants the wielder a +10 on all Strength checks to break inanimate objects that can be struck with a fist. (Ropes do not count; doors do.)

Phaeton
Aounka; Elf Duskblade.
+2 Eager Rapier. Additionally, it has the Voracious Light property; the Voracious Light property allows you to resolve your weapon attacks as melee touch attacks, but the feedback from the ability causes you to take 1d6 damage per attack. This property can be switched on or off at any time with a move action.

Once per encounter, as an immediate action, Phaeton can attempt to Blind a single target within reach after they have declared their action, but before the result of any rolls related to that action are known. The reflex save DC on the Blind effect is (10+½Character Level+Charisma).

Willow
Yenka; Shifter Druid
+4 Wisdom Ring. As an immediate action, once per encounter, you may grant a single ally within sixty feet the grace of the willows for one round. They gain a +10 dodge bonus to Armor Class, a +10 Insight bonus to Reflex Saves, the benefits of the Evasion ability, and are under the effects of the Feather Fall spell for one round. These benefits are negated if the subject is bound, and does not confer any protection against being flat-footed or denial of your dexterity bonus.

The wielder of Willow also gains a +2 Insight Bonus to their Reflex Save, Initiative, and Armor Class.

Echo
Jacen; Human Shadowcaster
+4 Charisma "Orb". Once per encounter as a swift action after casting a spell, you can call forth a second, weaker echo of the spell. This second spell occurs at half-strength, reducing the duration, damage, modifier, or any similar numerical aspect of the spell aside from its caster level. It occurs as if you were simultaneously casting the same spell two times on the same location or target. Any variables in the spell (such as targets, shaping an area, and so on) apply to both of the resulting spells. Metamagic effects that heighten variable numeric effects, such as Empower or Maximize, are not taken into account when determining the strength of the Echo. The target suffers all the effects of both spells individually and receives a saving throw for each.

As an additional benefit, Echo can cast the Ghost Sound spell at will as a 5th level caster; however, it can only make sounds which mimic something it has heard within the last day. The Sense Motive check to disbelieve the mimic is equal to the wielder's Caster Level + 10, modified appropriately by circumstances.

Devouring Stream
Du'Halaq; Warforged Binder
Note: In order to use Devouring Stream, Du'Halaq must have the Ahathi custom vestige bound. This is one of the conferred benefits.

+1 Bodyfeeder Whip of Speed

Successful attacks with Devouring Stream require the target to make a Fortitude Saving Throw of (DC 10 + 1/2 effective binder level + Cha modifier). If they fail this save, they take a negative level. Only one level per round can be lost in this fashion, though you may make multiple attempts in the round. Assuming the subject survives, they regain lost levels after 1 hour. The negative levels from this ability do not last long enough to to permanently drain the victim's levels.

Eilonwy's Chain of the Singing Flame
??? (Potentially a Changeling Favored Soul.)

+2 Holy Surge Scorpion Chain. Grants a +5 sacred bonus to Perform and Tumble checks.

Upon successfully striking an evil target, for the next two rounds, the weapon grants allies of its wielder a +3 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +3 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. The morale bonuses increase +1 for every successive round that the wielder makes successful attacks on an evil target, but resets after two rounds of not attacking an evil target. The wielder's allies additionally benefit from as Fast Healing equal to the morale bonus, beginning at 3 and increasing by 1 a round. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the weapon sing.

[Azerian Kelimon]

In order:

Thundestrike: Borked. Unless you include foes with the appropiate skill to get up quick, this one's an autowin. Nerf it.

Phaeton: Pathetic. I'd sell this if I had it, since voracious light sucks, and sucks hard. If you want to make this a bit better, make the blind an at will thing, or remove the vicious part.

Willow: Good, and not unbalanced. It will even be useful later if the bonus to WIS is an enhancement bonus and you can upgrade it. You should aim for THIS level of power.

Echo: Oh, my. This one's tremendous. Eliminate it, it's too powerful.

Devouring stream: No. Just no. D'you have ANY idea of the power of negative levels? Either you do a massive nerf to the DC, or you change the effect to something weaker.

Eilonwy's: Wow. This is horrible! I'd never even look at a chain like this, and would sell it the second I saw it. Honestly, +1 stackings per round are pretty minor. Anything you want to kill, it'll be dead in three rounds, tops, making the bonus pretty neglible.

All in all, you have to work on this. As I said, willow is at about the ideal level of power: Useful, but no insanely gamebreaking or totally useless.

[AstralFire]

In order:

Thundestrike: Borked. Unless you include foes with the appropiate skill to get up quick, this one's an autowin. Nerf it.

Eh, it's based around the Psychic Warrior power Stomp and with his stats, a DC 18... a Psion could pump it out all day for more damage and get a comparable DC (11+6 Int+1 Focus) and do it as a Standard, too. Its prime advantage is that it's shapable. I dunno, having a hard time seeing this one as overpowered since it can be negated by flying or distance.


Phaeton: Pathetic. I'd sell this if I had it, since voracious light sucks, and sucks hard. If you want to make this a bit better, make the blind an at will thing, or remove the vicious part.

Brilliant Light + Arcane Channeling is pretty powerful, I'd say, as is an at-will blind on anyone and anything that needs a target. Honestly, I regarded this as the most powerful one of the arsenal.


Willow: Good, and not unbalanced. It will even be useful later if the bonus to WIS is an enhancement bonus and you can upgrade it. You should aim for THIS level of power.

They upgrade automatically with levels. I'll be rebalancing them again at 15, 18 and 20.


Echo: Oh, my. This one's tremendous. Eliminate it, it's too powerful.

Well, looking at two of the spells he can Echo...

Greater Shadows Fade = Greater Dispel Magic
That's a once-per-encounter double dispel check, so it's twinned. Pretty powerful, but I don't know if it's all-out broken. Remember the Shadowcaster gets a limited spell list.

Greater Shadow Evocation
It's basically an empowered variant spontaneously. I dunno, I'm not seeing an extra 50% damage once an encounter to be out of line with most of the rest of these effects. Maybe I'm not being inventive enough, give me an example of a breaking scenario.


Devouring stream: No. Just no. D'you have ANY idea of the power of negative levels? Either you do a massive nerf to the DC, or you change the effect to something weaker.

Eilonwy's: Wow. This is horrible! I'd never even look at a chain like this, and would sell it the second I saw it. Honestly, +1 stackings per round are pretty minor. Anything you want to kill, it'll be dead in three rounds, tops, making the bonus pretty neglible.

Devouring Stream is pretty comparable to an Enervating weapon, actually, except Enervating can strike multiple times in a round. Most of the non-BBEGs they fight get downed in 2-3 rounds tops, and it's limited to one target a round. Given that Negative Levels take away 1 from everything and do minor HP damage, and Eilonwy's chain basically adds +1 Attack/Damage a round to 5 melee based party members and 1 caster, I'm not really sure how one is insanely broken and the other is insanely useless.

Negative levels are more powerful than the Inspire Courage buff, but not by enough of a magnitude to make a similar stacking mechanic end up on opposite sides of the balance scale.

More discussion welcome.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Lemme explain the brokenness.

Thunder: You prone them, and get away. Your party attacks. Repeat until the thing is down.

Phaeton: Wraithstrike. Wham, the brilliance is useless. See now why I recommend changing it?

And vicious sucks. End of debate.

Good we agree on Willow.

Echo: Enervation, Empowered, Maximized.

Hasta La vista, baby!

Devouring stream: Up to four drains per round, using no cheese and taking that knight of whatever binder PrC to get extra BAB for a fourth attack. At a ridiculous DC. How is that balanced? Add some little extra stuff and NOTHING'S gonna make the save, short of a lucky tarrasque.

Eilonwy's: Inspire courage is one of the bard's worst abilities. Why do you think inspire bards take Dragonfire inspiration and the like? Because the default thing is crappy, with a capital C.

Really, this things are NOT balanced against each other. Maybe Thunderstrike is a bit less powerful than I thought, but the other overpowered stuff is still extremely brutal.

[AstralFire]

Lemme explain the brokenness.

Phaeton: Wraithstrike. Wham, the brilliance is useless. See now why I recommend changing it?

...Duskblades also have a limited spell list. Wraithstrike isn't an option for them.


Echo: Enervation, Empowered, Maximized.

Enervation is also not on the Shadowcaster's limited spell list. However, you do bring up a good point on the interplay with Metamagic. I'm not sure on this one, becuase there isn't really a lot of metamagic that works amazingly well with the Shadowcaster. He could do an Empowered Shadow Evocation Fireball and Echo for basically 70 average damage to an area as opposed to 50.


Devouring stream: Up to four drains per round, using no cheese and taking that knight of whatever binder PrC to get extra BAB for a fourth attack. At a ridiculous DC. How is that balanced? Add some little extra stuff and NOTHING'S gonna make the save, short of a lucky tarrasque.

Devouring Stream is explicitly limited to 1 drain/round, and is a save version (rather than a no-save, crit-activated, multiple time a round) +3 weapon ability. I'm... not really convinced.


Eilonwy's: Inspire courage is one of the bard's worst abilities. Why do you think inspire bards take Dragonfire inspiration and the like? Because the default thing is crappy, with a capital C.

I've min-maxed a bard a few times, Eilonwy actually used to be my character before I had to take over last year. +9 to Attack/Damage - quite doable by 20 - in a melee heavy party, especially ones that use multiple attacks a round often is pretty notable. However, maybe it could start out +2 and increase 1 step every round further?

[Blue Paladin]

As artifacts, these items are supposed to be more powerful than standard for a weapon, in part to even out the very few pieces of loot I hand them.

Thunderstrike
Kyrt; Shifter Unarmed Swordsage
+3 Brutal Surge Gauntlet. As a full-round action, you may strike the ground beneath you with a massive force. Creatures within the area of effect must make a DC (10+½Character Level+Str) reflex check or be knocked prone, taking unarmed damage. The area of effect may be a 30 ft. line or 20 ft. cone emanating from you, or 10 ft. radius circle centered on you. Feats, maneuvers and abilities which temporarily modify your unarmed damage such as Power Attack, Sneak Attack, and Rapid Strike do not apply.

Thunderstrike also grants the wielder a +15 on all Strength checks to break inanimate objects that can be struck with a fist. (Ropes do not count; doors do.)I don't think this one is that bad actually. As a full-round action, Kyrt can deal 2d6 (2d10 at level 20!) in a variety of AOEs. And they get a save to boot (I assume that with a Reflex save, it's for half dmg in addition to negating prone?). That's fine by me.

The +15 is big though; no door is safe. And if you have a laterally thinking player, no wall is safe either. I would consider either lowering the bonus, or putting a limit on times per day to get that fat bonus.


Phaeton
Aounka; Elf Duskblade.
+1 Eager Rapier. Additionally, it has a Voracious Light property; this property is the same as the Brilliant Energy and Vicious effects combined, and can be suspended or activated as a standard action.

Once per encounter, as an immediate action, Phaeton can attempt to Blind a single target within reach after they have declared their action, but before the result of any rolls related to that action are known. The reflex save DC on the Blind effect is (10+½Character Level+Charisma).Even though it's a +4 equivalent, Brilliant Energy is actually pretty bad. All it does is go through armor and shield bonuses; at higher levels, the majority of AC is coming from dodge or natural or even deflection. And as bonus suckage, it fails completely against undead, constructs, and objects.

Since I can't find Voracious Light anywhere, I'll assume it's homebrew. So don't just settle for mashing two pre-made abilities together; make it do something unique! "When activated, you can make attacks with Phaeton as touch attacks, but you suffer feedback and take 1d6 damage upon each successful hit" (i.e. better than Brilliant Energy benefit, only the drawback from Vicious). Remove the restriction against undead and constructs and you go from suck to pretty good IMO. This would probably become overpowered once Aounka hits next level, and can add a spell to each hit in a full attack.

I'm also a fan of the blinding effect, but if I were doing it, I'd have it activate on crits (as a rapier, it should happen often enough). I'd keep the save, but shift it over to Fort or Will though; I can't really see "dodging" the blinding light.


Willow
Yenka; Shifter Druid
+4 Wisdom Ring. As a swift action, once per encounter, you may grant a single ally within sixty feet the grace of the willows for one round. They gain a +10 dodge bonus to Armor Class, a +10 Insight bonus to Reflex Saves, the benefits of the Evasion ability, and are under the effects of the Feather Fall spell for one round. These benefits are negated if the subject is bound, and does not confer any protection against being flat-footed or denial of your dexterity bonus.

The wielder of Willow also gains a +2 Insight Bonus to their Reflex Save, Initiative, and Armor Class.Pretty good all around; one thing I might change for Grace of the Willows is the action, from swift action to immediate action.


Echo
Jacen; Human Shadowcaster
+4 Charisma "Orb". Once per encounter as a swift action after casting a spell, you can call forth a second, weaker echo of the spell. This second spell occurs at half-strength, reducing the duration, damage, modifier, or any similar numerical aspect of the spell aside from its caster level. It occurs as if you were simultaneously casting the same spell two times on the same location or target. Any variables in the spell (such as targets, shaping an area, and so on) apply to both of the resulting spells. The target suffers all the effects of both spells individually and receives a saving throw for each.

As an additional benefit, Echo can cast the Ghost Sound spell at will as a 5th level caster; however, it can only make sounds which mimic something it has heard within the last day. The Sense Motive check to disbelieve the mimic is equal to the wielder's Caster Level + 10, modified appropriately by circumstances.As AK stated, exceptionally good. It's essentially a Twin Spell for free (normally that's a 4-lvl metamagic). True the second effect is reduced in half, but for certain spells that won't matter that much. About the only reason I'm not as vitriolic over it as AK is because Jacen is a Shadowcaster, and is actually probably in need of a boost.


Devouring Stream
Du'Halaq; Warforged Binder
Note: In order to use Devouring Stream, Du'Halaq must have the Ahathi custom vestige bound. This is one of the conferred benefits.

+1 Bodyfeeder Whip of Speed

Successful attacks with Devouring Stream require the target to make a Fortitude Saving Throw of (DC 10 + 1/2 effective binder level + Cha modifier). If they fail this save, they take a negative level. Assuming the subject survives, they regain lost levels after 1 hour. The negative levels from this ability do not last long enough to to permanently drain the victim's levels. Only one level per round can be lost in this fashion, though you may make multiple attempts in the round.Unlike AK, I actually have no problem with this. The reason? It's a whip. Any amount of armor bonus, and anyone with +3 natural armor or more ignores it entirely. OTOH this thing is a (un)holy terror against unarmored opponents. I also don't know what Ahathi does, so I'm making a not-entirely-informed judgement here, but I think it's fine.


Eilonwy's Chain of the Singing Flame
??? (Potentially a Changeling Favored Soul.)

+2 Holy Surge Scorpion Chain. Grants a +5 sacred bonus to Perform and Tumble checks.

Upon successfully striking an evil target, for the next two rounds, the weapon grants allies of its wielder a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases +1 for every successive round that the wielder makes successful attacks on an evil target, but resets after two rounds of not attacking an evil target. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the weapon sing. This effect is identical to the Inspire Courage bard class ability, except for the duration.There. I believe that just went from "kinda meh" to "OMG awesome".

[Azerian Kelimon]

Astral: Hellooooooo, wraithstrike item! Really, it ain't that hard to do, and a crafty player will obsolete the weapon if left unchanged.

Blue Paladin: A wise player knows that attaching a dagger to the whip suddenly makes that meaningless. Daggerwhips (Can't remember the true name) make the weapon fearsome.

That buff to Eilonwys's chain is nice. Alone it doesn't seem so great, but considering the party, it should add up nicely.

Also, if the shadowcaster needs a buff, why not just give him a normal caster progression? Far as I know,they're suddenly very much competitive with that.

[AstralFire]

Thunderstrike is actually Reflex to negate everything, I clarified that now. How's a +10 bonus sound?

Blue, I like your suggestions and have incorporated them, but I went a different route with Eilonwy's chain, making it add Fast Healing equal to double the bonus, and increasing the initial number to +3. I don't want their +hits to get too large, too fast since I do use some high AC enemies.

However, Azerian's right, the armor-immunity to whips isn't really a big deal - Devouring Stream is actually made of sentient water, a whip just felt like the most appropriate way to describe it. I just think the 1/round restriction on the negative levels is pretty important.

Azerian, the change to Voracious should be sufficient now, yes?

[Blue Paladin]

A wise player knows that attaching a dagger to the whip suddenly makes that meaningless. Daggerwhips (Can't remember the true name) make the weapon fearsome.They were called Whip Daggers, and they existed only in 3.0. "A wise player"? Sounds more like a player trying to go over the DM's head and make up his own crap. Since Rule 0 is the unquestioned realm of the DM, this is up to AstralFire.

Personally, if any player of mine tried to do that, here's how it would go.

Player: I want to strap a dagger on the end of this whip, so I can deal real damage like the 3.0 whip dagger!
Me (as DM): So you're attempting to bypass the inherent weakness that I've designed into the weapon?
Player: Yes!
Me: Okay. You tie a dagger on the end of the whip.
***later, in combat***
Player: I move in and attack the hydra! (rolls) I hit AC 26!
Me: Factor -4 for being nonproficient.
Player: What? I have Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip!
Me: I know. You're using a Whip Dagger now.
Player: If you're proficient with whip, you're proficient with whip daggers!
Me: That was in 3.0. Really, if you're adding 50% more weight to a weapon, I would think it changes how you swing that weapon. I mean, that's the same weight ratio as between long sword and bastard sword. And that takes an extra feat to wield properly in one hand.
Player: Fine. Whatever. I hit AC 22 then.
Me: Great. That still hits. Roll damage.
Player: 3 damage, and make a Fort save against the negative level. DC 19.
Me: That's 2 damage and no Fort save.
Player: What!?
Me: You didn't hit with Devouring Stream; you hit with a nonmagical 1d4 dagger tied on to the end of Devouring Stream.
Player: ... If I crit, I don't get temporary hit points from Bodyfeeder, do I?
Me: Not with a dagger you don't.
Player: So instead of inflicting negative levels with my whip, I'm taking a -4 to hit, deal dagger damage, and don't get any of the special abilities.
Me: You catch on fast.
Player: ... I'm going to take the dagger off.
Me: Real fast.

And that's the benevolent version. I have plenty of "As you swing to take your attack, Devouring Stream whips you in the face; take a negative level." "Twice, because it's a Speed weapon." "No save."

[hamishspence]

artifact + appropiate loot for your level = +2 to your CR by Dungeon Magazine. Warduke had 1 major artifact (that helmet) and plenty of minor items, and got +2 CR.

Care should be used. However if every party member has something good, and it makes up well for lack of ordinary loot, could work (avoids jealousy). existing artifacts can be handy for guidelines, but they do vary a lot in power.

DMG2 had advice for which artifacts would be disrupting and which would not.

[AstralFire]

Well, that's why I'm trying hard to make them roughly equal with each other in both power and coolness. =)

[Azerian Kelimon]

They were called Whip Daggers, and they existed only in 3.0. "A wise player"? Sounds more like a player trying to go over the DM's head and make up his own crap. Since Rule 0 is the unquestioned realm of the DM, this is up to AstralFire.

Personally, if any player of mine tried to do that, here's how it would go.

Player: I want to strap a dagger on the end of this whip, so I can deal real damage like the 3.0 whip dagger!
Me (as DM): So you're attempting to bypass the inherent weakness that I've designed into the weapon?
Player: Yes!
Me: Okay. You tie a dagger on the end of the whip.
***later, in combat***
Player: I move in and attack the hydra! (rolls) I hit AC 26!
Me: Factor -4 for being nonproficient.
Player: What? I have Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip!
Me: I know. You're using a Whip Dagger now.
Player: If you're proficient with whip, you're proficient with whip daggers!
Me: That was in 3.0. Really, if you're adding 50% more weight to a weapon, I would think it changes how you swing that weapon. I mean, that's the same weight ratio as between long sword and bastard sword. And that takes an extra feat to wield properly in one hand.
Player: Fine. Whatever. I hit AC 22 then.
Me: Great. That still hits. Roll damage.
Player: 3 damage, and make a Fort save against the negative level. DC 19.
Me: That's 2 damage and no Fort save.
Player: What!?
Me: You didn't hit with Devouring Stream; you hit with a nonmagical 1d4 dagger tied on to the end of Devouring Stream.
Player: ... If I crit, I don't get temporary hit points from Bodyfeeder, do I?
Me: Not with a dagger you don't.
Player: So instead of inflicting negative levels with my whip, I'm taking a -4 to hit, deal dagger damage, and don't get any of the special abilities.
Me: You catch on fast.
Player: ... I'm going to take the dagger off.
Me: Real fast.

And that's the benevolent version. I have plenty of "As you swing to take your attack, Devouring Stream whips you in the face; take a negative level." "Twice, because it's a Speed weapon." "No save."

So, punishing guy, much?

Lemme guess: If I try to use a wand of passwall to get through your perfectly ordinary maze walls, I'm 'ported to Hades, right?

Or I have to make an insane Ref save to avoid being crush, no success if I try to climb the Tarrasque?

And I'm MOST sure whip daggers were updated to 3.5, not to mention there being rules for modifying a weapon without altering it's enhancements.

[Mewtarthio]

And that's the benevolent version. I have plenty of "As you swing to take your attack, Devouring Stream whips you in the face; take a negative level." "Twice, because it's a Speed weapon." "No save."

Ouch. A little harsh, much? What next? "Devouring Stream is angered at your disrespect, and so it polymorphs into a hostile 288-HD Paragon Primal Water Elemental. Roll initiative."

[Cuddly]

I like them. Considering that you're limiting treasure, and that all the classes are fairly middle of the road in power, they seem just fine. The enervate whip is pretty damn sweet, but it's only going to land one debuff/round. The chain also seems really OP, considering that your player will want to pimp his attacks/round. On the other hand, none of your players look to be rolling anything that shuts down enemies in one or two rounds, anyway. No core casters, no uberchargers.

That echo orb in anyone else's hands would be unbelievably powerful; but if all you can do is blast a little harder with it, I'm not seeing a huge problem.

Most of these abilities seem about on par with a 3-6 level ToB maneuvre.

[Blue Paladin]

Lemme guess: If I try to use a wand of passwall to get through your perfectly ordinary maze walls, I'm 'ported to Hades, right?A perfectly valid use of a spell? No. I have no problems with that.


Or I have to make an insane Ref save to avoid being crush, no success if I try to climb the Tarrasque?The Crush attack form specifically allows a Reflex save. No change to the rules there.

Trying to climb the Tarrasque? Better have Wolf Climbs The Mountain, or else you're provoking AoOs each time you enter the enemy's squares. And guess what else! Big T has no problems hitting you because a creature can always attack into his own square. So sure, you can climb the Tarrasque (some high Climb DC), but get no real benefit from doing so (in fact, while climbing you lose your Dex to AC, so lose all your dodge bonuses too). I'll be trying to talk you out of it, sure. For your own good.


And I'm MOST sure whip daggers were updated to 3.5, not to mention there being rules for modifying a weapon without altering it's enhancements.I've got most every splat released by WotC, and I haven't seen it in 3.5 at all. In particular, I have one friend who has been sitting on a Belmont-inspired build since 3.0, when it was possible; if whip daggers were around, I'm sure he'd be all over it.

And even if it does exist, the artifact is specifically a whip, not a whip dagger. Try painting a little extra something on a Deck of Many Things and tell me it changes how the artifact works...

Now let me ask you something. You want to not only change the damage type of a weapon (in this case from nonlethal to lethal, and IIRC increase the damage die by 2 sizes [from d3 to d6]), but also remove specific drawbacks inherent to the weapon. For 2 gp. Does this sound at all reasonable to you?

Can I add a 2 gp dagger to the haft of a +3 Vorpal Glaive, and threaten all squares within 10' (removing the specific drawback of a standard reach weapon)? And if you're permissive enough to allow that, here's a follow-up. Does the dagger get +3 to hit? Does the dagger get the vorpal effect too?

You have to draw the line somewhere. I just draw my line a lot further on the side of low power than you do.


Ouch. A little harsh, much? What next? "Devouring Stream is angered at your disrespect, and so it polymorphs into a hostile 288-HD Paragon Primal Water Elemental. Roll initiative."Only if they keep pushing the bounds of absurdity, and especially after I've already tendered a ruling.

Oh, and the Paragon Primal Water Elemental would obviously get a surprise round ;)

But back on topic: AstralFire, I like most of the edits you've made. About the only thing I wanted to clarify was Phaeton, specifically, the Voracious Light property. "Which property is active" makes it sound like you can deactivate the feedback property and keep the touch attack property.

I'd say something like: "This property can be activated or deactivated as a move-equivalent action." and possibly even include an example: "For instance, in one round the wielder can attack with Phaeton as a normal +2 Eager rapier and activate the Voracious Light property as a move-equivalent action. The next round, the wielder resolves attacks with Phaeton as touch attacks, suffering 1d6 damage himself with each successful hit."

But that's just the rulemaker lawyer-language in me. Your players probably don't need it spelled out once it's explained.

[hamishspence]

I'd go with rewarding players for imagination, but make whatever they want to pull off tricky, so they do not do it every day. E.g. climb tarrasque should be hard, but if player gets up there he should, for example, be able to bury weapons in its eyes, blinding it (regeneration does not force weapons out) until it takes a full round action to remove spikes from eyes.

Imagination is good. Cheese is not. Very fine line.

[Ascension]

As for the brilliant energy vs. wraithstrike item thing... There really are a lot of players out there who aren't optimization minded. I remember when I first started playing I viewed the rogue's sneak attack as an incredibly situational ability which would be rarely utilized in open combat. Then my DM started pointing out ways to exploit it because I wasn't doing enough damage. I agree that hurting yourself is a little harsh, especially since none of the other weapons have a similar disadvantage, but it may very well be better than what the player would come up with on his/her own. D&D isn't all about optimization. CharOp is fun, but it's not supposed to be the point of the game.

On the whip dagger thing... to my knowledge they haven't been updated, and updating them is a slightly stickier issue than usual since they were ranged weapons in 3.0. I'd really like to play a whip-oriented character, but it's really hard to do (practically impossible without homebrew).

As for weakening Devouring Stream... make it an intelligent weapon. A hungry intelligent weapon. If you don't feed it enough in combat, it starts feeding on you. It tempts you to feed it at inappropriate times, leading to negatives to your social skills, maybe even will saves against harming innocents if you go too long without slaking its thirst. Have the binder ping as evil while wielding it, too, possibly drawing undue attention from paladins and/or clerics in the area.

I think that works very nicely. Gives it a Soul Edge sort of feel. Bonus points if the former wielder of the Stream shows up as a recurring villain.

[AstralFire]

The reason I never addressed the wraithstrike item is that, quite frankly, they're not likely to be in a position where they can request crafted items anytime soon. They've been in a 'dungeon' - well, an enemy city that's largely either ghetto or antagonistic - for the last third of a year. Next time they get back to their castle -and- clear out the invading army, it may have sufficient resources to construct such an item, but currently, it's really not an option for them.


But back on topic: AstralFire, I like most of the edits you've made. About the only thing I wanted to clarify was Phaeton, specifically, the Voracious Light property. "Which property is active" makes it sound like you can deactivate the feedback property and keep the touch attack property.

Ah, yes, good catch - thank you. That was an artifact of an earlier design.

In general, I'm probably the most optimization minded member of this group and my imagination is limited when it comes to magic items. I do builds, mostly. I really hate Christmas tree item design and that part of statting a character has always bored me to tears. Our binder's pretty clever with minmax, though.


As for weakening Devouring Stream... make it an intelligent weapon. A hungry intelligent weapon. If you don't feed it enough in combat, it starts feeding on you. It tempts you to feed it at inappropriate times, leading to negatives to your social skills, maybe even will saves against harming innocents if you go too long without slaking its thirst. Have the binder ping as evil while wielding it, too, possibly drawing undue attention from paladins and/or clerics in the area.

I think that works very nicely. Gives it a Soul Edge sort of feel. Bonus points if the former wielder of the Stream shows up as a recurring villain.

Ehhhh. It's not that I dislike the suggestion in and of itself, it's mostly an issue that that doesn't really fit with its former wielder. Ahathi was a magnificent bastard, not a chaos monger.

Summary of the Vestige, contains the relevant flavor:
http://theanteheroes.com/Ashbane/AhathiVestige.txt

The mentioned group of people that slayed him was the party at the time: Aounka, Kyrt, Yenka, Jacen, in addition to two players which have left, and an NPC cohort. He has an interesting semi-antagonistic relationship with them when he is bound.

River of Rage can't be applied to Devouring Stream.