View Full Version : Early entry into Knight of the sacred seal

2008-04-29, 04:44 PM
So, I'm making a level 10 character. I'm allowing myself 2 books, three books at the most. This is because half the group is play 3.0, and the other is 3.5. Don't Ask.

So I decided to play a binder, from tome of Magic. The dm is letting us have LA two and under for free. (not sure how this works with racial HD). Going a trippish built (with supernatural crusader and oppurtunist)

So I want to go into Knight of the Sacred Shield at level 6, and finish it before ten. The problem for me is choosing a patron vestige. I'm not high enough level to bind the really good vestiges. Which either means I can..

Take a full bab class and enter early. Lose one one point of bab and one EBL. A sub par vestige that I can use twice in a row 1/day. May take Rovone to get monk damage (and wield a glaive to threaten everything), then pack it up with Andras for Sure blows and smite.
Binder 4-->+1 bab--> KoSS 5


Continue slugging through binder, losing a couple more points of bab, but having a higher EBL at the end, less bab, but better bound vestige.
Binder 7--> Koss3
Advice? Is early entry a trap? Will Mario rescue the Princess?

Any suggestions on nice, low LA things? I was thinking lizardman, but a human's free feat is excellent..
What full bab class should I take? I don't want to steal the spot light, and we have a dragon-pally. Ranger could be favored outsider, and a feat is really really nice from a fighter dip..

2008-04-29, 04:48 PM
Where is Knight of the Sacred Shield from?

2008-04-29, 04:51 PM
Both Binder and KoSS are in Tome of Magic; the binder section.

2008-04-29, 05:22 PM
Don't forget about the Improved Binding feat: That'll give you access to slightly less sucky vestiges for your patron, whichever route you go. Really, that feat is pretty much mandatory for anyone playing a Binder at less than level 17.

So, let's see... If you start with Binder 4/<Warrior> 1, that'd give you access to the 3rd-level vestiges. For a martial type, Paimon the Dancer is probably the best vestige of 3rd level or lower, with the ability to attack everyone you can move past (which gets even better, if you can pick up Skirmish from somewhere, some time down the line). Another option would be Savnok, for the transposition ability.

If you go Binder 6 entry, you'd have access to 4th-level vestiges, which gives you more options. Andras' most useful ability is probably Sow Discord, plus the other things you mentioned. Agares gives you an earth elemental buddy, fire immunity, a boost to combat ability in the form of Earth and Air Mastery, and battlefield control from Earthshaking. Buer is great if your party is short on healing, but I wouldn't recommend her until you can bind two vestiges at once, since she doesn't really give much besides healing. Finally, Tenebrous would give you a fair amount of cold damage added to your attacks.

One other point to consider in choosing your patron vestige is that you automatically make good pacts with it. So if one of the vestiges you like has a disproportionately high DC, or a particularly annoying influence or sign, you might want to consider taking that one as your patron, so you never have to worry about a poor pact.

2008-04-29, 05:23 PM
For race, if you get 2 LA free and you want a humans free feat, and you're playing a binder, the obvious choice IMO is a Karsite - look at the end of the Binding section of the ToM.

Some of the lower level vestiges including Ronove scale pretty well at higher levels. I'd go with early entry and enjoy the level 4-5 abilities of KoSS when you start this game.

2008-04-29, 08:17 PM
Personally, if I could mix 3.0 and 3.5 and could have core +2 books, I'd take the 3.0 phb (for spells, mainly) and Carc and 3.5 DMG and roll a wiz 10/Io7FV 7/archmage 3. The point being to abuse 3.0 haste.

As for race, I'm not so sure on that. 3.0 female drow maybe?

2008-04-29, 08:52 PM
A few points for clarity..

I'll be using 3.5, along with one or two others. The rest will be playing 3.0. It's weird and I don't quite understand why we're doing it, but eh. I'm happy with my binder.

I'm not sure if I want to continue taking binder levels after KoSS. I'll have an EBL of 9, and be able to bind two vestiges of up to 4th level without improved binding. I'm really unsure what I want to do after my KoSS levels. if I take one level in Paladin, I can continue it after KoSS, at the loss of binding. And binding is awesome.

It is a "good" campaign. I'm not fully sure of what that means; but since I am to be lawful good, I probably should stay away from certain vestiges like Acererak.

2008-04-29, 09:05 PM
I don't believe vestiges have any effect on alignment.

2008-04-29, 09:13 PM
It is a "good" campaign. I'm not fully sure of what that means; but since I am to be lawful good, I probably should stay away from certain vestiges like Acererak.

Just make sure you can get a good pact with the shadier vestiges if you decide to use them. There shouldn't be anything inherently damaging about binding the vestige (unless any of the abilities are flagged [Evil]), but operating under the influence could endanger your alignment.