the spartans from 300

[metalbear]

How exactly would the spartans from the movie 300 stat out? What about feats, skills, equipment, and so on?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Probably level 10 warblades. Shortspear, large metal shield, breastplate, longsword.

[Crow]

Level 6 Fighters. Shortspear, Shortsword, Hvy wooden shield, Leather Armor.

[Eldariel]

Don't forget Baby Oil Armor.

[Cuddly]

Armor? What armor?

[edit]
Oh, right, Oil of Magic Vestment.

[Glawackus]

Armor? What armor?

[edit]
Oh, right, Oil of Magic Vestment.

I snickered. 5 points to Gryffindor.

[nargbop]

They were gymnastic-tastic fighting machines. 5th to 10th level Fighters, all with a PrC of some sort. The characters with lines would have a couple levels of Marshall or Warmaster or something with similar fluff. All must have significant ranks in survival and profession (soldier). There may be D&D rules somewhere that show how very, very good they were at acting as a cohesive unit.

[Crow]

Phalanx Fighting is a feat from CW. I think 10th level would be a little high.

[Sholos]

They'd also have either really high DEX or some massive dodge bonus.

Stupid movie. But I'm a purist, so ignore me.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Don't forget the Bard with Perform: Oratory and Flaw: One Eye who had cheesed his Inspire Courage number and range to affect everyone.

[skywalker]

Maybe they had the character armor variant from Unearthed Arcana?

I also vote for Warblade. They were all too hot to have low charisma scores.

One guy, at least, had throw shield.

[Eldariel]

They were reflavoured Crusaders. They used that 'shield block' crap a lot. And their spirit certainly didn't seem to falter. Also, Crusaders are Charisma-based; just sayin'.

Also, they had all that Formation Fighting/Phalanx Fighting-crap picked.

[sikyon]

They all have belts of battle allowing them to fastforward in combat.

[ImpFireball]

What about bullet time?

And one of them had to be swordsage, but I'd choose warblade more likely due to all the tactical feat crap and one bladed fighting. Throw shield was also brutal, because I don't think a shield can actually knock someone over in D&D.

Someone better create a hoplite class that has bonuses to phalanx fighting.

[Hurlbut]

There is a Hoplite class Officially published.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=28013&it=1

[Admiral Squish]

I have one word to contribute to this conversation: Manscaping. Like landscaping, but with hot guys.

[Ascension]

The actual spartans would be fighters. Well trained fighters, but fighters. The spartans from 300 have ToB classes.

[its_all_ogre]

lets not forget they would have been fighting unarmoured commoners in the main also.
this explains how they knock a guy down with a shield, d6+STR?
the immortals would have been a couple of levels lower with elite array :smallconfused:
compared to the 300 having probably about 40 point buy stats.:smallbiggrin:

[Roderick_BR]

If rules for meelers in D&D were not so bad, they'd be level 6 or better fighters, the cap in the d6 variant game. But in normal D&D games, they would be fighter/warblades.
A good point to remember is when they compare the spartans to "normal" soldiers. They were all warriors, experts, and commoners, while spartans, with special militar training, were at least fighters.
With Phalanx Fighting and any other group fighting feats you could imagine. They were just well trained, compared to the common folk.

[Frosty]

Remember how in the beginning of the movie, a man checks a baby and thrn throwss the baby away? The Spartans tolerate no wimps. They kill all the babies that had anything less than a 32 point-buy :smallbiggrin:

[Myshlaevsky]

Don't forget their impenetrable cloaks

[Wraithy]

Whatever their class was, they must have maxed out ranks in craft (washboard abs)... if that even makes sense

[Leadfeathermcc]

They were Iron Heroes (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_IL).

[Crow]

Almost everything Mark Twight used to get those actors in shape, he learned at a 3-day Crossfit (http://www.crossfit.com) seminar. Go there, and pick your own point buy.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Amur_Tiger]

I won't comment on how to make the Spartans from 300 since most seem to have a pretty good grasp on that anyways but I have some knowledge that might help to make a real Spartan.

For level 6th is not at all unreasonable if you start comparing them not just to the soldiers of other Greek city states, who would probably be about level 4, but those of the Persian horde as well who would range in the level 1-4 area depending on the unit.

They'd be armed with a longspear of 9 feet and a 1ish foot long scimitar, obviously monkeygrip would be required for the first.

For armor you'd probably have either leather or breastplate depending on the ranking of the Spartan in question, the royal guard for example would be suitable subjects to have breastplate and they'd also likely take a higher level as well. It should be noted that the greaves and helm that come with breastplate fit best what all Spartans would wear on their head and shins.

Tactics are important to truly capture what the Spartans were all about, as mentioned the phalanx and formation fighting feats would be very important but so would Improved Bull Rush and Improved Shield Bash to try and represent what Spartans actually do when they're in their formation. They don't, as some would show, stand still and wait for the enemy to come to them, and neither do they break ranks to use their swords or spears more effectively. Instead they charge as a single unit while remaining in tight formation forming a running wall of shields that batters itself right into the opposing force. It's like bullrushing the opposing force without having to roll to hit, the only way they can get away is by running away. Using this and their longspears held overhand they'd destroy and disrupt enemy formations like this, if their own formation started to break up, or their spear was broken they'd take out the short sword for really really close combat.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Remember how in the beginning of the movie, a man checks a baby and thrn throwss the baby away? The Spartans tolerate no wimps. They kill all the babies that had anything less than a 32 point-buy :smallbiggrin:

I figure they throw all but 9.8^-13 % of their babies down there, keeping only the ones who rolled straight 18s.

(Well, actually, that's for 3d6, so I guess since the advent of 3E they got to keep more of the babies.)

[Ossian]

The spartans didn´t live in a world nearly as dangerous as D&D´s. Leonidas and his "trusted lieutenant" got almost kicked in their (yeah, firm and muscular, whatever) asses by...a CR 4 ork, or what was that chained brute with sword and axe?

Leonidas? In his awesome and sweet killing spree he takes down an unspecified amount of level 1 or 2 warriors (not even fighters). Trivial accomplishment for a level 6 to 8 fighter. Give him shock-trooper and phalanx fighting, and maybe a level of Marshal, and you are done with him. you might want to throw in a level of aristocrat just to represent that he was the legendary, and 40 to 50 years old King of Sparta. Even if chose not to use it, that does not mean he didn´t know diplomacy and the rule of law. FTR 6/Marshal 2/Aristocrat 1 and you kick ass. Go FTR 8 if you really are dying for that extra feat.

Delios (the bard-guy) might really have had a level of Bard (maybe go for the 'savage bard' variant). Still, a high CHA and the skill emphasis (oratory) feat might well explain his talent. add 1 or 2 cross class ranks in oratory and Knowledge [History] and lo and behold! You have Delios the storyteller (up to +10 to oratory by level 4).

This said, he and all the guy with lines must have been level 3 or 4 fighters, with the usual Phalanx Fighting. More than enough to mown down easily hord after hord of "persian cannon fodder".
Maybe some of them had power throw, or shield throw, or the weapon focus tree. I reckon somethig looking like a leap attack, but this is like Miko´s samurai levels. She says she is one AND tha she does not level in the namesake class. So, only because someone throws a shield in a greek wuxia fashon or does a leaping attack, thy don´t necessarily have the feats that bear the same name.

What was amazing was their CON score. Fighting for long hours, outnumbered a million to one. Go for "Endurance" by default.

A must is the unarmored AC bonus from Unearthed Arcana (around +8 by level 6, for fighters, equivalent to a full plate). Add a large brass shield (+2to AC), phalanx fighting, longspear and scimitar (well, close enough, they had curved blade xiphos).

Lenoidas?

Let's throw in some numbers, considering he is well into hi middle age.

Fighter 8/Aristocrat 2
Level 10, Human, Midlle age, Medium Size.

Abilities.

STR 15 (he is strong, but he´s not Conan)
CON 17 (he still kicks ass, despite his age)
DEX 14 (must have been a lot quicker but WTH, he´s almost 50!)

INT 15 (the guy is smart)
WIS 17 (age has got to be good fo something)
CHA 19 (inspires people to no end, and pulls an epic "Intimidate" on Xerses himself)

HP: 120 (8d10+2d8+30)
AC: 22 (+ 8 class, +2 large shield, +2 DEX) + combat expertise

BAB: +9
Full attack: +12/+7 (1d8+4 longspear) or +11/+6 (1d8+3 xiphos)

Feats: 4 fighter's feat, 4 level feats, 1 bonus feat (human). shock trooper, power attack, combat expertise, cleave, improved shield bash, improved trip, weapon focus (longspear), weapon specialization (longspear). Phalanx Fighting. All weapons proficiency. All armors proficiency. All shields proficiency.

Skills: 44 skill points (FTR) + 12 skill points (noble)
Appraise (Int), +3, Bluff (Cha), +9 Diplomacy (Cha) +8, Gather Information (Cha) +7, Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Religion) (Int) +3, Knowledge (Geography) (Int) +5, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Int) +3, Perform (Cha) Oratory +7, Sense Motive (Wis) +6, survival + 4
Climb (Str) +11, Handle Animal (Cha) +9, Intimidate (Cha) +19, Jump (Str) +10, Ride (Dex) +5, and Swim (Str) +5.

Equipment: brass shiled (large) mastercraft +helmet (+2 to AC for critical rolls confirmation). Brass scimitar (mastercraft +1, -1 for being made of brass, +1 to damage (heavier)). Brass tip spear. Red cape. YMCA leather underwear. Sandals.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

They had Tower Shields, not large masterwork ones. Short Haft, obviously, so they can wield spears far and close. The one thing is an Ogre, maybe with class levels, and Leonidas takes it down while grappling, so he had to win an opposed check. That means high Str or BaB, probably both if you assume that thing had class levels.

[Hurlbut]

They used Bronze, not brass.

[Trog]

Skillz:
Kick Into Pit +11
Blinding Oiled Pectoral Gleam +11
Intimidate (Muscle Ripple) +11
Yelling Town Names +11
Chuck Wussie Babies +11
Favored Enemy: Ugly People

[Ossian]

They had Tower Shields, not large masterwork ones. Short Haft, obviously, so they can wield spears far and close. The one thing is an Ogre, maybe with class levels, and Leonidas takes it down while grappling, so he had to win an opposed check. That means high Str or BaB, probably both if you assume that thing had class levels.

It looked (to me) just like a big brute, not eve the size of an orc. I mean, he was impressive and huge, but I picked the orc just because it´s the closest D&D thing I can think of. The guy in 300 was, what, 2.30? (or 7'8"). Definitely not 10' and with one sole purpose: kill everything in sight. He kicked Delios in the guts and hurled him several feet away and pinned Leonidas down. Anyway, high STR does not mean necessarily 22 and high BAB could well be 6 or 7.

What is difficult to convince people about movies is that you did not see "the average day" of a Spartan. You get to see the story where the hero, because he is a hero, pulld a series of natural 20s in a row.
There must have been countless battles where people the skill of Leonidas "rolled all 1s" and died miserably in the first bout of the first battle.
This might sound weird, bt it is how I see movies and epic tales in general.
Statting Leonidas at level 20, fo example, throwing in all sort of fancy PrC, and giving him 299 level 7 to 10 heroic soldiers, would mean that they could win at the Ho Gates before noon of day 1, and go home wthout a scratch.
Level 20 is Yoda, the 900 y.o. masterest master ever. Level 20 is, what, King fingolfin squaring off Vs Morgoth with sword and board, on a 1 on 1. Raoh from HNK is Level 20.

These are guy who would eat Conan and Leonidas for breakfast!

O.