What happens when you Disintegrate a Vampire?

[Frosty]

Distintegrate offers a Fort save, but it also affects objects, therefore Vampires are not immune. If you reduce a Vampire's HP to 0 or below with Disintegrate, what happens to the Vampire?

[SamTheCleric]

I'd think it takes the damage, but it turns to gas instead of ash.


If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape

[Frosty]

This is kind of like Thicket of Blades and Tumble. Which overrides which?

[Jasdoif]

This is kind of like Thicket of Blades and Tumble. Which overrides which?In this case, the Vampire wins. The vampire's rule is more specific in scope (applies to vampires) then disintegrate's (applies to creatures and objects), and thus takes precedence.

[Frosty]

What about a save-or-die spell? Are there any that affects vampires? And if they do, would the vampire just turn to gas?

And do Coup-de-Graces affect vampires? Can they survive without a head?

[SamTheCleric]

Vampires only turn to gas if they use a standard action to do so... or if their hit points are reduced to 0.

So if there IS a save or die kind of spell... if it doesnt do hit point damage, it would work.

[Chronos]

What about a save-or-die spell? Are there any that affects vampires?Undeath to Death. Also similar is a Greater Turning or the like, or a Holy Word from a sufficiently-powerful cleric, either of which would also destroy a vampire. And the whole Gaseous Form thing for a vampire only kicks in when it's reduced to 0 HP, and doesn't say anything about getting slain by methods other than HP damage, so in those cases, the Vampire is a goner.

[Frosty]

So the question is whether or not Vampires care about losing their heads. I know that as undead, they're not affected by critical hits, but if they need a head, they can still die from CDG correct? Do they even need to make the Fort save to not die from a CDG?

[Mewtarthio]

Also the Sunburst spell, which seems to have been specifically designed to permakill vampires.

[hamishspence]

if coup de grace is by vorpal weapon. Might need Dm's discretion as to how easy it is to remove a vampire's head using other ways: or let clerics do it with sunbeam spells.

[Mewtarthio]

I believe there are rules somewhere for using a Profession (executioner) check to behead a helpless opponent.

[Frosty]

I believe there are rules somewhere for using a Profession (executioner) check to behead a helpless opponent.

We do already rules for doing that. It's called Coup De Grace.

[rockdeworld]

*sigh* Vampires are undead, don't forget.

An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
Vampires aren't subject to Coup-de-Grace, and don't die from having their heads cut off. However, to quote:

A popular tactic is to cut off the creature’s head and fill its mouth with holy wafers (or their equivalent)

[Collin152]

Vorpal weapons specifically can kill Vampires by decapitation.

[Frosty]

*sigh* Vampires are undead, don't forget.

Vampires aren't subject to Coup-de-Grace, and don't die from having their heads cut off. However, to quote:

Wait, but how can you fill its mouth with holy wafers if the body immediately turns to mist? Or is the Vampire's body still operating at this point and can still attack you without its head to guide it?

Does filling its mouth with holy wafers (what is it? Waffles made with holy water?) immediate kill the vampire?

[Chronos]

Does filling its mouth with holy wafers (what is it? Waffles made with holy water?) immediate kill the vampire?Wafers, not waffles. A wafer is a small, flat piece of bread. In the legends in our world, one would use communion wafers, but without the equivalent of the Catholic church, I'm not sure what, precisely, holy wafers would be in a D&D world.

[Collin152]

Wafers, not waffles. A wafer is a small, flat piece of bread. In the legends in our world, one would use communion wafers, but without the equivalent of the Catholic church, I'm not sure what, precisely, holy wafers would be in a D&D world.

Cookies stamped with Pelor's sun-disk.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Wafers, not waffles. A wafer is a small, flat piece of bread. In the legends in our world, one would use communion wafers, but without the equivalent of the Catholic church, I'm not sure what, precisely, holy wafers would be in a D&D world.

-or: One square of a waffle who's batter was mixed with holy water.

:smalltongue:

[Collin152]

-or: One square of a waffle who's batter was mixed with holy water.

:smalltongue:

If were getting into theoretical recepies, be warned- I once won a thread with mine.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Martha Stewart's De-vamp Your Vamp

[Collin152]

Martha Stewart's De-vamp Your Vamp

Naw, naw.
Mithril Chef, here we go!

[Mewtarthio]

Hm... What if you were to take a regular cookie recipie, then you added a mixture of virgin blood and ghoul saliva? Then you'd get an evil cookie, so you could just cast sanctify the wicked on it to get a holy wafer!


We do already rules for doing that. It's called Coup De Grace.

According to Crystal Keep, the BoVD actually does have those explicit rules. It's a DC 18 Profession (executioner) check, requires that the victim be bound and helpless, and can be averted entirely if the enemy escapes the bonds via Use Rope.

...Well, that's utterly useless for dealing with creatures that can turn to mist at will. I guess you could hit them with a control undead spell beforehand, or maybe do it in an antimagic field.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Narrator: Contender Houghes is using a Vorpal Scythe to ensure the vampire's head is cleanly severed. This is to yield an end result with a hint of country flavor. Note how he's using only organic ingrediants for his holy wafers.
Ditsy Female: Mmm, sounds good! *her eyes glazed*
Sumo Wrestler: I think I sat on something like this once. *deadpan*
Old Female Judge: *gawks mutely at the Wrestler with her eyebrow raised*

[Collin152]

Hm... What if you were to take a regular cookie recipie, then you added a mixture of virgin blood and ghoul saliva? Then you'd get an evil cookie, so you could just cast sanctify the wicked on it to get a holy wafer!


The grain must be grown on Hallowed ground. The flour mill must be Consecrated. The bakery must be manned by Good bakers, and the baking process overseen by a Cleric. Each wafer is sprinkled with Holy Water and salt.

[Frosty]

Hm... What if you were to take a regular cookie recipie, then you added a mixture of virgin blood and ghoul saliva? Then you'd get an evil cookie, so you could just cast sanctify the wicked on it to get a holy wafer!



According to Crystal Keep, the BoVD actually does have those explicit rules. It's a DC 18 Profession (executioner) check, requires that the victim be bound and helpless, and can be averted entirely if the enemy escapes the bonds via Use Rope.

...Well, that's utterly useless for dealing with creatures that can turn to mist at will. I guess you could hit them with a control undead spell beforehand, or maybe do it in an antimagic field.


AMFs are useless. Vampire mist ability apparently is (ex).

Can we get back on topic on exactly how to kill a vampire? :p Does cutting its head off turn it to mist or not?

[Renegade Paladin]

Cutting off a vampire's head destroys it; the template specifies this.

Anyway, for what it's worth, 3.0 disintegrate would destroy a vampire, since it didn't deal HP damage on a failed save; it just utterly destroyed the target. In 3.5, however, since disintegrate deals hit point damage, it does not kill a vampire.

[Zanatos777]

I always assumed that their head must be removed then stuffed with wafers while they were in their coffin.

When they are in their coffin recuperating from you kicking the heck out of them.

[Frosty]

So now the question is: Must the cutting of the head be with a vorpal weapon, or can you render it helpless and just hack at its head a lot with a scythe?

[KillianHawkeye]

AMFs are useless. Vampire mist ability apparently is (ex).


Gaseous Form (Su)
As a standard action, a vampire can assume gaseous form at will as the spell (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability.

Apparently not.

Personally, I'd allow disintegrate to work on Vampires successfully.

[Frosty]

I seem to remember the auto-mist after 0 hp ability to be (ex)...

[Aquillion]

I'd think it takes the damage, but it turns to gas instead of ash.If you read the vampire ability strictly, though, it's only saved if reduced to exactly zero hp:

A vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape.

It says "reduced to zero" not "reduced to zero or below" for some stupid reason. I can't imagine that's what's intended given how useless that makes the ability, but that's very clearly what it says; it only triggers when the vampire's hp are brought to exactly 0.

While disintegrate zots any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. Therefore, a vampire brought to -1 or lower by disintegrate is a goner.

(Another argument is that its ability doesn't seem to kick in if it's reduced to zero hp outside of combat -- so it's not saved from traps, say, or falling damage, or stubbing its toe... Stupid wording.)

[Rutee]

Technically, Undead can't be reduced to negs, because they're unliving (As are Constructs). They end at 0 HP...

[Collin152]

Technically, Undead can't be reduced to negs, because they're unliving (As are Constructs). They end at 0 HP...

This is true, 0 is their minimum.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

That is so. Just as living things can't go below -10, non-living can't go below 0

[Sstoopidtallkid]

That is so. Just as living things can't go below -10, non-living can't go below 0Is this accurate? I know nonlethal can take you to -whatever, but I thought lethal could, too. :smallconfused:

[Chronos]

Interesting... When the vampire voluntarily turns to mist, that's a (su) ability, but the auto-mist on 0 HP is part of the Fast Healing entry, which is an (ex). So an antimagic field will stop it from escaping from you just because it feels like it, but it can still get away when it really needs to.

And technically, nonlethal damage can't take you to negatives at all. Nonlethal damage doesn't change your HP at all; it's a separate (positive) number that you compare to your HP total. So a fully-clobbered Tarrasque, for instance, has 858 HP, just like it always does, and at least 868 points of nonlethal damage.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Interesting... When the vampire voluntarily turns to mist, that's a (su) ability, but the auto-mist on 0 HP is part of the Fast Healing entry, which is an (ex). So an antimagic field will stop it from escaping from you just because it feels like it, but it can still get away when it really needs to.I'd justify that in-game as the Vampire's method of activating his Gaseous Form is magical, but when he goes to 0 HP it instinctively happens. Out of game, WotC is full of idiots.

[Gaiwecoor]

That is so. Just as living things can't go below -10, non-living can't go below 0

Erm... but living things can go below -10; it just has the same effect as being at -10.


At -10 or lower, you’re dead.

That just doesn't make sense if you can't go below -10. I honestly don't see where that would matter, though. Even with a Troll's regeneration, the HP damage is nonlethal, so it's never reduce the HP below that threshold. Meh.

[Glyphic]

Specifically, going below -10 hp matters alot to Crusaders using the stance of Immortal Fortitude. They just have to make a fort save vs their negative Hp's or die/become unconscious. Or be returned to 1 hp.

Which could be an amusing stance to give a vampire.

[FlyMolo]

Specifically, going below -10 hp matters alot to Crusaders using the stance of Immortal Fortitude. They just have to make a fort save vs their negative Hp's or die/become unconscious. Or be returned to 1 hp.

Which could be an amusing stance to give a vampire.

Throw them into a bucket of water while you're at it.

[Jayabalard]

If you read the vampire ability strictly, though, it's only saved if reduced to exactly zero hp:


It says "reduced to zero" not "reduced to zero or below" for some stupid reason. I can't imagine that's what's intended given how useless that makes the ability, but that's very clearly what it says; it only triggers when the vampire's hp are brought to exactly 0.They're probably assuming that you use an iterative definition of the minus operation where you can only decrement a number by one in each operation. So in order to reduce the vampire's hp to below 0, you first have have to reduce it to 0.

[Mewtarthio]

I'd justify that in-game as the Vampire's method of activating his Gaseous Form is magical, but when he goes to 0 HP it instinctively happens. Out of game, WotC is full of idiots.

Maybe when reduced to 0 HP, a vampire crumbles into dust, except it's still alive so the dust flies away. Otherwise, it has to use magic to transform itself into dust.

And, yes, I know the term used is "mist," but when have you ever heard of vampires crumbling into "mist"?

[Aquillion]

Technically, Undead can't be reduced to negs, because they're unliving (As are Constructs). They end at 0 HP...
Well, the SRD says:

Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.So they can go below 0, it just destroys them instantly (and in the vampire's case, it destroys them without giving them a chance for their survival ability to activate, unless you go by the above interpretation.)

[Rutee]

Interesting. And why I don't trust WotC all that much with.. oh anything.