Drizzt Books

[expirement10K14]

So I am looking at the Hunter's Blade trilogy, and at my library they only have book 2 and 3. Would skipping book 1 through the series off for me, or will it still make sense if I start with The Lone Drow?

[DrizztFan24]

The Hunter's Blade trilogy is farther into the series. You can read the series as stand alones and that wouldnt hurt you much. I started with the Legacy of the Drow. But I would definately start wiht book 1 of a series/trilogy.

[expirement10K14]

Oh, legacy comes first? I had thought it was a separate series. In that case I'll read legacy, the library has all of those.

[Anteros]

My personal opinion is that you would be better off by skipping all but the Entreri books, since Drizzty Sue isn't that interesting to me.

Nevertheless...if you intend on punishing yourself you should probably start with the prequel series. The Drizzt book storylines as I recall run in books of 3, so whatever you do, start at the beginning of the respective trilogy you pick and you'll be fine. It's not like you're reading it for the plot anyway.

[FdL]

I'd say that the reading order is important. I mean, the origin trilogy is a prequel, but should be read after the first. It makes sense that way. I didn't read it and I did lack important background form the Legacy one.

Currently I'm reading Servant of the Shard, a Drizzt-less one but part of a Drizzt trilogy. It's good, though too Entreri-centric. Not bad, but I long to get back to the main action.

I do have to say I'm really tired of Drizzt-bashing, and that this thread should be without.

[EvilElitest]

I'd say that the reading order is important. I mean, the origin trilogy is a prequel, but should be read after the first. It makes sense that way. I didn't read it and I did lack important background form the Legacy one.

Currently I'm reading Servant of the Shard, a Drizzt-less one but part of a Drizzt trilogy. It's good, though too Entreri-centric. Not bad, but I long to get back to the main action.

I do have to say I'm really tired of Drizzt-bashing, and that this thread should be without.

Thank you. While Drizzt Clones are annoying, Drizzt isn't that bad. Remember, salvator literally isn't allowed to kill him due to writing license, because he kills of characters a lot more in his own series
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

You know, I think the only thing that really bugs me about Drizzt is that he always has the same mind frame. He was always talking about the same subjects from the same point of view every reference to him I could find. It was pretty cool at first but got a little...old.

But still, he's a good character and Salvatore writes a mean novel. But I'd recommend the Sellsword trilogy. Even if you don't like Entreri, Jarlaxle and Athrogate are always good for laughs.

[FdL]

Well, he's not always the central character in his novels. But well, I still like him. He's like the anchor, the compass to what the other characters refer to.

Regarding the Sellswords, i'd read the rest of the books (after I finish all Drizzt ones, that is), but someone told me that the second and third are really depressing. Without spoilers, would anyone know what this refers to, and whether that could be a turnoff for reading them? (for me)

[Mr. Scaly]

Well, he's not always the central character in his novels. But well, I still like him. He's like the anchor, the compass to what the other characters refer to.

Regarding the Sellswords, i'd read the rest of the books (after I finish all Drizzt ones, that is), but someone told me that the second and third are really depressing. Without spoilers, would anyone know what this refers to, and whether that could be a turnoff for reading them? (for me)

Umm...without spoilers, let's just say that there's a lot more to Artemis Entreri than first meets the eye. I didn't find them depressing...I found them shocking.

[EvilElitest]

Umm...without spoilers, let's just say that there's a lot more to Artemis Entreri than first meets the eye. I didn't find them depressing...I found them shocking.

The first one was great, but i felt kinda disappointed by the second one. I don't mind if you spoiler the third one, but in what way is it darker
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

The first one was great, but i felt kinda disappointed by the second one. I don't mind if you spoiler the third one, but in what way is it darker
from
EE

Partially I don't think I was really ready for the truth about Jarlaxle. Right up until the 'stab in chest' scene he always seemed like the Batman of the series...dark but misunderstood. But really, he called Entreri his friend then went right ahead and messed with his mind until he was almost another person. He had good intentions but it killed Entreri inside, and he just didn't feel anything over it apart from 'oh well, let's start again.' The whole trip after that point was one massive soliloquy towards depression, loneliness, child abuse from Entreri, Jarlaxle even Athrogate at times. Sure there was lots of violence and murder after that, but it stopped being a fantasy story and became a heart wrencher.

Of course that's just my take on it. And I still enjoyed the books either way.

And it gives me an idea for another vs thread.

[EvilElitest]

Partially I don't think I was really ready for the truth about Jarlaxle. Right up until the 'stab in chest' scene he always seemed like the Batman of the series...dark but misunderstood. But really, he called Entreri his friend then went right ahead and messed with his mind until he was almost another person. He had good intentions but it killed Entreri inside, and he just didn't feel anything over it apart from 'oh well, let's start again.' The whole trip after that point was one massive soliloquy towards depression, loneliness, child abuse from Entreri, Jarlaxle even Athrogate at times. Sure there was lots of violence and murder after that, but it stopped being a fantasy story and became a heart wrencher.

Wait i haven't read it yet, does Enterai lose his badass ness


Of course that's just my take on it. And I still enjoyed the books either way.

have you read demon wars

hey we should talk more, we tend to be on opposite sides and yet we also tend to be civil.



And it gives me an idea for another vs thread.
Gods save us
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

Wait i haven't read it yet, does Enterai lose his badass ness

God forbid. No, he's still quite badass. And I tried to leave out the general plot in that spoiler...sorry if i missed a bit.


have you read demon wars

hey we should talk more, we tend to be on opposite sides and yet we also tend to be civil.

Never even heard of it...what's it about?

And it's strange how that works, isn't it?



Gods save us
from
EE

Hehe. Gods save Gotham city.

[EvilElitest]

God forbid. No, he's still quite badass. And I tried to leave out the general plot in that spoiler...sorry if i missed a bit.

Ok, thats a releif


Never even heard of it...what's it about?

Salvator using his own world, without limits. Trust me, its amazing.


And it's strange how that works, isn't it?
PM, i have an interesting position for you



Hehe. Gods save Gotham city.

Wait, oh gods, you didn't...
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

Salvator using his own world, without limits. Trust me, its amazing.

I see...interesting. Methinks I may have to check it out.


PM, i have an interesting position for you

Will do.


Wait, oh gods, you didn't...
from
EE

Did I? It's all such a blur...I don't remember.

[EvilElitest]

I see...interesting. Methinks I may have to check it out.

It reminds me of song of fire and ice


Will do.

Its a it of an oppunity



Did I? It's all such a blur...I don't remember.

what evil have you realized you monester
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

It reminds me of song of fire and ice

Ah, now that's something I haven't read in quite a while...I read the first a few years ago, didn't touch it, then accidentally read some spoilers about how everyone dies.


Its a it of an oppunity

I don't think I received the message. My inbox doesn't show it anyway.


what evil have you realized you monester
from
EE

Well, it came to me in a flash, completely at random.

[Anteros]

Actually you'll note that I didn't bash Drizzt, I bashed the author. Being a mary sue isn't the characters fault, and Drizzt is actually a well done, interesting character. It's the fact that he can do no wrong and no one can ever die. Ever. No not even then. Which really leeches all the tension out of the book. That's why the prequals and the Entreri series are better, they don't suffer from this. It may not be Salvatore's fault that it's this way, but it still ruins the series. that irritates me so.

[FdL]

Granted, Drizzt is kinda "Mary Sue"-ish, but saying that reading his books is "punishing yourself" is a gross exageration.

[EvilElitest]

Actually you'll note that I didn't bash Drizzt, I bashed the author. Being a mary sue isn't the characters fault, and Drizzt is actually a well done, interesting character. It's the fact that he can do no wrong and no one can ever die. Ever. No not even then. Which really leeches all the tension out of the book. That's why the prequals and the Entreri series are better, they don't suffer from this. It may not be Salvatore's fault that it's this way, but it still ruins the series. that irritates me so.

1) He does do wrong at quite a few point. Killing the deep gnomes for example
2) I'll give you the not dying, through until recenencly salvator has handled it quite well
3) The story is still quite well regardless, and Drizzt isn't very mery sueish, he doesn't share the qualities
from
EE

[Anteros]

1) He does do wrong at quite a few point. Killing the deep gnomes for example
2) I'll give you the not dying, through until recenencly salvator has handled it quite well
3) The story is still quite well regardless, and Drizzt isn't very mery sueish, he doesn't share the qualities
from
EE

I don't feel like double checking right now, but I'm pretty sure Drizzt never killed any deep gnomes. He was busy fighting the elemental.

Truly, if you could list some Drizzt fallibilities I would absolutely love to hear them, since it could very well save the series for me. Please spoiler them though so that we don't ruin it for the TC.

[EvilElitest]

I don't feel like double checking right now, but I'm pretty sure Drizzt never killed any deep gnomes. He was busy fighting the elemental.

Ok but the attack



Truly, if you could list some Drizzt fallibilities I would absolutely love to hear them, since it could very well save the series for me. Please spoiler them though so that we don't ruin it for the TC.
Well just general flaws is

Arrogance, as commented upon by other characters
Self Rightousness

Mostly he doesn't trust people to be competent, and tends to take things into his own hands because he doesn't have faith in other's abilities.

He admits to racism on quite a few occasions

And he seems to be a workaholic

Also, as revaled in legacy, he is actually very conservative, elitist, and somewhat monarchy. He is very closed minded, through he doesn't realize it, towards science, particularly the new invention in the realms, the Cannon. He views it as something against the natrual order, in which those who take the time to train with swords shouldn't be equalized by those who use smokepowder, which he calls "foul play". A very Samerai view on things


Do you want specific events
from
EE

[Hawriel]

yes his demon wars series is pritty good. I thoroughly enjoyed the first triliogy. The magic system is uneaqe. It deals with religion and magic in a way I have not seen befor. Ther are cleches, the orphan boy trained to hunt the evil races and elves who have the thinking of being superior to every one. The fourth book I enjoyed as well. its basic plot is the church and the black plague. the second trilogy I was less impressed with. How ever Salvator does fill out his world even more. I liked that best.

I really enjoyed the Clerics Quintet. That was another D&D FR set. Ivan and Pikle are great fun. They also appear in the hunters blade books.

The crimson shadow was an exilent trilogy. No orcs. A young noble boy get caught in a war for controle of the empire.

The spear wielders tale is a nice read. Its about a young man who gets rabbit holed into a magical land.

[Kenori]

I say go read the Cleric Quintet.

Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder are the two greatest literary characters since Shakespeare.

[Talya]

There's nothing "Mary Sue"-ish about Drizzt. You want to see Mary-Sue-ish characters, read anything by Spider Robinson.

Salvatore's writing used to be awful. (including the Cleric Quintet series.) The characters are all wonderful, the stories are nice, the action is great, but the narrative and dialogue are horrid.

Somewhere along the line Salvatore got himself a good editor. The Hunter's Blades trilogy is actually well written, from top-to-bottom. The other series are enjoyable and painful at the same time. That series is actually good.

[Mr. Scaly]

Hmm...that list of Drizzt's flaws reminds me of why I hate elves so much, actually. Maybe that's what annoys me most about him?

[Kenori]

Salvatore's writing used to be awful. (including the Cleric Quintet series.)

HERESY I SAY!

[Adumbration]

For some reason in every Drizzt book I'm on the bad guys' side.

Do you know why? They're all so pathetic. Well, Entreri's not, but that's a different story. The bad guys in general, though, never really, really, win. You always know that they get their asses kicked, evil gets it's due, the good guys live happily until the next adventure etc.etc.

The Drizzt series and the Cleric Quintet were like this, but for some reason I found I liked the Entreri saga. It's really hard to pin on why, but easy to paragraph into a one word: Badassery. He's evil in a sense, yet he's not... evil. He actually seems like a human being who got screwed over, big time (and those who have read the Sellswords know what I mean).

[EvilElitest]

For some reason in every Drizzt book I'm on the bad guys' side.

Do you know why? They're all so pathetic. Well, Entreri's not, but that's a different story. The bad guys in general, though, never really, really, win. You always know that they get their asses kicked, evil gets it's due, the good guys live happily until the next adventure etc.etc.


Do you mean pathetic as in badly written, or pathetic as in bad people? If the latter then i'd agree, i very much like the villains, mostly Dinn and that young guy from the top drow house who Enterai kills, something with a B
from
EE

[Anteros]

Ok but the attack


Well just general flaws is

Arrogance, as commented upon by other characters
Self Rightousness

Mostly he doesn't trust people to be competent, and tends to take things into his own hands because he doesn't have faith in other's abilities.

He admits to racism on quite a few occasions

And he seems to be a workaholic

Also, as revaled in legacy, he is actually very conservative, elitist, and somewhat monarchy. He is very closed minded, through he doesn't realize it, towards science, particularly the new invention in the realms, the Cannon. He views it as something against the natrual order, in which those who take the time to train with swords shouldn't be equalized by those who use smokepowder, which he calls "foul play". A very Samerai view on things


Do you want specific events
from
EE

EE, I don't take issue with the fact that his views are wrong...because many of them certainly are. Just with the fact that the author will literally never portray said views as anything but 100% correct.

[EvilElitest]

EE, I don't take issue with the fact that his views are wrong...because many of them certainly are. Just with the fact that the author will literally never portray said views as anything but 100% correct.

actually i have to disagree, at least with the ones i've mentioned. Other views the author agrees with, but Drizzt's conservatism, arrogence, and lack of trust in others certainly comes back to bite him on quite a few occasions and his racism is noted upon
form
Ee

[Anteros]

actually i have to disagree, at least with the ones i've mentioned. Other views the author agrees with, but Drizzt's conservatism, arrogence, and lack of trust in others certainly comes back to bite him on quite a few occasions and his racism is noted upon
form
Ee

Except for the fact that his "racism" is completely justified, since he exists in a world where certain races are automatically evil. It's not like real world racism where things are unfounded "oh, you know how those silly white people love to chew on things..." (Note: I picked white because that's what I am.) Racism against creatures who are, by definition inherently evil on a massive scale cannot be related to real world racism. (And to be honest, Drizzt is remarkably tolerant of even the evil races...to the extent where he often lets giants/goblins/orcs/whatever escape.)

As for the others, yes I would like actual occasions if you don't mind. I've read the entire series and I can't recall any negative repurcussions. Ever.

[EvilElitest]

Except for the fact that his "racism" is completely justified, since he exists in a world where certain races are automatically evil. It's not like real world racism where things are unfounded "oh, you know how those silly white people love to chew on things..." (Note: I picked white because that's what I am.) Racism against creatures who are, by definition inherently evil on a massive scale cannot be related to real world racism. (And to be honest, Drizzt is remarkably tolerant of even the evil races...to the extent where he often lets giants/goblins/orcs/whatever escape.)

1) None of those creatures are always evil however, nor automatically. The only automatic evil beings are demons and the like
2) considering he is a good drow, he tends to be rather ruthless towards them on some occasions, and merceful on others
3) He also admits to racist policies towards humans and at a few points favoritism towards drow




As for the others, yes I would like actual occasions if you don't mind. I've read the entire series and I can't recall any negative repurcussions. Ever.
One example is when he made the oath not to kill drow. Or how he acted with the priest of Grond (who wanted to use gunpoweder to allow peasents to fight experienced fighter.

from
EE

[Anteros]

1) None of those creatures are always evil however, nor automatically. The only automatic evil beings are demons and the like
2) considering he is a good drow, he tends to be rather ruthless towards them on some occasions, and merceful on others
3) He also admits to racist policies towards humans and at a few points favoritism towards drow



One example is when he made the oath not to kill drow. Or how he acted with the priest of Grond (who wanted to use gunpoweder to allow peasents to fight experienced fighter.

from
EE

And when have any of those things had any type of negative repurcussion for him? You and I may agree that his views, such as the case with gunpowder are wacky...But Salvatore portrays his views as completely correct. Drizzt gives this huge speech about how Gunpowder is evil, and then it is never brought up again. It doesn't matter if the character has some theoretical flaw, if that flaw is never used against the character.

How boring would the Illiad have been if it was just Achilles killing everyone with no repurcussions? Sure, the audience might know he is vulnerable on the ankle, but it doesn't matter if no one ever hits him in the ankle.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading the Drizzt novels. I just don't enjoy reading about Drizzt.

[Shademan]

R.A salvator = yeh pwnz.
i love them drizzt books.

drizzt flaws: adultery? anoyone? ok, maybe im overdoing it but hey, he had a passionate moment with cattie-bire in that drak dimension of chaos or whatnot that the thief guild leader threw 'em in.

[hamishspence]

Interesting note: the beginning of chapter monologue entries for the Icewind Dale trilogy were added later, in rewrite, after Dark Elf trilogy was published. Original icewind dale trilogy does not have them.

Drizzts decision not to ever kill a drow again started after his first killing of one: he was repulsed by what he saw as murder. After interacting with other races, on his next encoun ter with drow, he was forced to break his oath, and admitted he was wrong to even make it. Still, when he made it, he hadn't experienced much of the world.

[poleboy]

I forgot the names, but I read what I suppose is the first trilogy that begins with Drizzt's birth. I kind of enjoyed them, not exactly gripping but easily read for someone who did not grow up speaking english and satisfyingly familiar to someone who enjoys D&D. Where should I go from here?

I gotta admit, I rather enjoy his conflicted view on killing, what is evil and such. While he claims to have high moral standards, he's not beyond a little battle rage and he certainly seems to enjoy killing as long as he can justify it to himself. It strikes me as very human and well... maybe not likeable, but familiar. In many ways, I think he is a good example of his alignment.

[Kenori]

You should read the Icewind Dale trilogy from there:
The Crystal Shard
Streams of Silver
The Halflings Gem

Drizzt is a little more homicidal in those books than the others, but he reins it in pretty quickly.

Also, if you love how delightfully psychotic the drow are, I'd read the War of the Spider Queen, which starts with Dissolution by Richard Lee Byers. Its done by different authors but are all helmed under R.A. Salvatore.

[Anteros]

R.A salvator = yeh pwnz.
i love them drizzt books.

drizzt flaws: adultery? anoyone? ok, maybe im overdoing it but hey, he had a passionate moment with cattie-bire in that drak dimension of chaos or whatnot that the thief guild leader threw 'em in.


A passionate moment with an unmarried woman?! The horror!

[Mr. Scaly]

You know, I think I just realised part of why I hate Drizzt. In every instance that I can remember, he always wins. Maybe I'm just reading the wrong books, but in the ones I've gone through he's untouchable. And THAT I hate. If there are examples where he loses please tell me so I can find them and laugh.

Plus there's my loathing of elves.

[Azerian Kelimon]

He's got contractual immoratility, if that's what you mean. But he loses two of his best friends, his father, a match against Entreri (Though the guy had help), and has a few minor defeats here and there.

[Anteros]

He's got contractual immoratility, if that's what you mean. But he loses two of his best friends, his father, a match against Entreri (Though the guy had help), and has a few minor defeats here and there.

No, actually he beats Entreri. Entreri just had magical protections that neither of them knew about. And his friends that die tend to get better. The only person who was important to Drizzt who has stayed dead was his father, and even he came back twice.

[Azerian Kelimon]

For all purposes, Entreri had the final win on that match. Yes, via help, like I said.

And the thing of getting better, well, the reason has been stated on the thread before: Salvatore cannot kill the characters due to contractual obligations. Full stop.

[PollyOliver]

I quite enjoyed the Drizzt books (I've read all of Salvatore's FR books except for the two newest). They're nice, light reading, and quite fun as long as you don't expect them to be anything more than that.

That being said, Drizzt does grate at times. Not because he's perfect--because he isn't--but because his mistakes so rarely have repercussions that he might as well be. His actions that have the biggest consequences are the things he did right, so that in the end he can feel guilty about everything that happened as a result of his decision without that decision actually tarnishing the character in the reader's eyes--Ellifain, I think, is the biggest example of this.

But really, it's kind of expected, and the books are pretty fun for the most part.

[Anteros]

For all purposes, Entreri had the final win on that match. Yes, via help, like I said.

And the thing of getting better, well, the reason has been stated on the thread before: Salvatore cannot kill the characters due to contractual obligations. Full stop.

Whether it's contractual or bad writing is irrelevant. It still ruins the series.

[Shademan]

A passionate moment with an unmarried woman?! The horror!

well she was kinda with Wulfgar then. wasnt she? KINDA?
...
well atleast she was asleep. so now hes also a rapsist! HAHA!

[Mr. Scaly]

Contractual immortality hurts things. Salvatore works around it pretty well, but...I also mean the fact that Drizzt never 'loses', not just dies. He gets the girl, he has hordes of people who love him, he can look down on everyone and know that he's better than him...and he's always got the moral high ground because he's the hero.

[Azerian Kelimon]

He also has an insane berserker side and most people hate him (But the frecuency we see the hate has diminished, since he lives surrounded by people he has earned the trust from).

Anyway, it's only natural for the hero to win big time. Forgotten Realms is an Idealistic setting. Don't tell me you'd expect the hero losing, being turned insane, or permanently crippled. FR is certainly not Westeros.

[Anteros]

Give me an example of someone who isn't a bad guy or a common mook who hates Drizzt. And no one cares that the hero wins, they care that there is literally no suspense whatsoever in the entire series.

Salvatore doesn't even do the whole "the badguys have the upper hand for now, and it looks bad, but the hero will win in the end!"

Instead he does: "Drizzt wins. Oh look, we won again. Wow, isn't Drizzt great? Look at him winning over there. He just beat another guy! Let's all bask in the warm glow of Drizzt's greatness!"

He's a Mary-Sue all the way down to his purple eyes.