PDA

View Full Version : Attacking Grapplers



Benejeseret
2008-05-01, 07:06 PM
I've come upon another question for a grapple:

A fellow PC is grappling a tiny creature. Then PC #2 walks up and tries to (normal) melee attack said creature.

It has lost its dex bonus to PC#2's attack...

BUT, is there any chance that the melee swing might hit PC#1 accidentally?

Normally I would say no (save natural 1's) but then I read the 25% chance of mis-hitting during a bull rush generated AoO. Since in both cases you are swinging into a square with both a enemy and an ally and in both cases they are touching/close together I started to question whether something similar should apply to grapples as well.

Thanks

Bene

Reel On, Love
2008-05-01, 07:21 PM
No, there isn't.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-02, 12:29 AM
I've come upon another question for a grapple:

A fellow PC is grappling a tiny creature. Then PC #2 walks up and tries to (normal) melee attack said creature.

It has lost its dex bonus to PC#2's attack...

BUT, is there any chance that the melee swing might hit PC#1 accidentally?

Normally I would say no (save natural 1's) but then I read the 25% chance of mis-hitting during a bull rush generated AoO. Since in both cases you are swinging into a square with both a enemy and an ally and in both cases they are touching/close together I started to question whether something similar should apply to grapples as well.

Thanks

BeneThe grapple rules (yes, those), say to "roll randomly to determine which you hit". However, they never say what the chance is, and there are no modifiers listed anywhere for size differences. :smallconfused:

I'd houserule it's only a chance if you miss, as if you hit you obviously had good aim on that strike, and only a 20% chance of hitting your buddy when you miss.

Also, if there is enough of a size difference that you take up a different number of squares, as long as you can target one of the squares that isn't populated by your buddy you shouldn't be able to hit him.

By RAW, though, a Tarrasque (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm) grappling a Toad (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/toad.htm), you have a chance to hit either. No indication what that chance is, but you do. :smallfurious:

NEO|Phyte
2008-05-02, 12:34 AM
Only firing ranged attacks into a grapple has a chance of hitting the wrong target.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-02, 01:13 AM
Only firing ranged attacks into a grapple has a chance of hitting the wrong target.SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm) disagrees. 2nd Table, 7th line. Yes, it is both dumb and undefined, and listed in a minor table far away from the actual grappling rules, but it is there.

Douglas
2008-05-02, 01:15 AM
No, that table is the source of his statement. Note that the footnote (number 3) that says to randomly determine the actual target is only noted for the ranged column.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-02, 01:22 AM
No, that table is the source of his statement. Note that the footnote (number 3) that says to randomly determine the actual target is only noted for the ranged column.Huh. You know, somebody, ANYONE, out of the 20 rules lawyers posting in the "Balance" thread, could have noticed that and saved about 3 pages of debate. NOONE did. That is really surprising. BTW, this foot tastes great. It's really good. :smallredface:

Lucyfur
2008-05-02, 01:01 PM
That's a very well hidden rule and actually caused some trouble for my gaming group last night.

Douglas
2008-05-02, 03:58 PM
While we're on the subject of well hidden rules, did you know that a Prismatic Spray cannot hit an ethereal target but a Prismatic Wall would affect one that tried to go through it? This is because abjurations extend from the material plane to the ethereal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#etherealness).