Hot 40K on Total Annihilation Action: CORE vs the Great Devourer

[LBO]

Ran into this idea (http://zip.4chan.org/tg/res/1641127.html) (WARNING! This is a link to 4chan, even if it is one of the nice boards - if you don't know what that is, DON'T CLICK) on /tg/ and it made me cry tears of joy. Anyone who knows TA will get it, and anyone who doesn't has missed out on one of the best RTS games of all time.


So, now: CORE vs Tyranids, say.

Tyranids: Textbook HordeOfAlienLocusts, stupidly advanced biological technology. Controlled by a collective hive mind, mindless smaller individual creatures controlled psychically. Ability to breed specialised creatures for just about anything, particularly good with monsters consisting almost entirely of teeth. Weapons technology specialises in inflicting body horror on the unprotected with a variety of horrible and phallic weapons, but can likely be adapted against mechanicals, and also involves "psychic blasts" effective against anything. Largest known ground combat unit: "Hierophant (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/hierop1.htm)" bio-titan.
Attach no importance to lives of individual critters, they can always grow new ones.
Can consume the biomass and geothermal energy of an entire world in a matter of weeks. Against the most badass elements of some of the most badass civilisations in all of speculative fiction, have devoured hundreds of worlds and taken large bites out of the galaxy in a few centuries.

CORE: Flesh-hating Von Neumann swarm-esque mechanical civilisation, near-omniscient AI and resource technology - think the Culture gone bad. Human sentience "patterned" into machines, merged and resulting in a vast collective intelligence known as "Central Consciousness". Technology based on the "nanolathe", capable of making just about anything; weapons tech includes lasers, ballistic plasma cannon, antimatter-sliver artillery, short-ranged D-gun capable of wasting anything. Largest known ground combat unit: "Krogoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krogoth)" experimental Kbot.
Mass/energy transmutation, instantaneous travel via Galactic Gate network, ridiculously fast construction of everything, can harvest the metal and energy resources of an entire world in a matter of days and turn it into machines. Against a faction with almost identical technology and determination, have totalled an entire galaxy in four thousand years. Attach zero importance to lives of their soldiers, as patterns can be copied and downloaded into new war machines.

A little reading material for the poor souls who didn't grow up with TA: Fan elaboration on TA's background and the Great War (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/162238/1/The_Great_War), Total Annihilation intro video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iSB-Rk1sYZw).


In short, the ultimate Bugs against the ultimate robots. GO!

(My very first vs. thread, hope I did it right :smallredface:)


(EDIT: Got the stupid link to the /tg/ thread wrong, fixed now)

[SurlySeraph]

As weird as it feels to say this about something from 40K, I think the Tyranids are screwed.

To a large degree, this is a battle of who can build faster. The Nids take weeks to strip a planet; the CORE take days. Advantage goes to the CORE.

Another problem: eating. The Tyranids are known to avoid Necron-controlled planets, apparently because they have trouble eating them. Well, if they have trouble eating robots, an entire faction of swarms of robots is big trouble.

Plus, if the CORE have instantaneous transportation, that's another problem. Tyranid Hive Fleets are slow-moving. It's theorized that the massive fleets of Tyranids that have attacked so far are just scouts for the main body, and the only reason the galaxy hasn't drowned in Nids yet is that the fleets haven't arrived yet. As you said, they've been attacking for centuries. Instant transportation means the Nids will be completely outmaneuvered everywhere.

It's true that the Tyranids have an advantage in psychic powers. However, a large part of what makes Tyranid psychics so dangerous is their hive mind; their hive mind forms a "shadow" that's like static, drowning out psychic communications and quickly driving psychics capable of hearing it insane. Direct psychic contact with the Hivemind is fatal; only one psychic has ever communicated with the Hivemind directly without dying.

But, as you see, the biggest part of the Tyranids' psychic advantage is that being around Tyranids hurts other psychics. The CORE don't have any psychics, so this does absolutely nothing to them.

CORE wins it, definitely. It's not a landslide, but they'd win.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Another problem: eating. The Tyranids are known to avoid Necron-controlled planets, apparently because they have trouble eating them. Well, if they have trouble eating robots, an entire faction of swarms of robots is big trouble.

The problem is not in eating robots, the problem is Tyranids can't recoupt their loses from battling Necrons since the material all Necrons are made from (necrodermis) is undigestible to Tyranids. It has, so far, been probably the only thing Tyranids can't devour.

Also it takes them a week or two to STRIP the planet, it does not take nearly as long to CONQUER a planet.

[Rutee]

While I object to the CORE being the ultimate robots (:smallyuk:), I think they might have this one.. I mean, they don't /need/ biomass. They need mineral mass. If Surly is correct about the Tyranid moving slowly..

..start burning the biomass. Is victory by starvation even possible? Or would that just hamper the creation of new units?

[Tengu]

I can never remember the difference between Core and Arm, which one of them are supposed to be the good guys, and which one has Peewees. And that's maybe because it's 5 am here, but wikipedia doesn't enlighten me on it.

[tyckspoon]

..start burning the biomass. Is victory by starvation even possible? Or would that just hamper the creation of new units?

mm. Mostly it would just cause the 'nids to ignore the burnt world and keep hibernating on their way to the next planet with enough biomass to be attractive. Not really a harm to the Tyranid fleet unless CORE can also force a battle on or near these killed planets, but it could easily be a gain for CORE if they can work fast enough to strip the planet for their own needs in addition to denying it to the 'nids.

[Cainen]

Are you sure posting a link to one of the most notoriously NSFW boards in existence is a good idea?

Still, given the difference in scale and power, I'm fairly sure the TA guys would win if they get any time at all to prepare their weaponry. If they came with an all-out assault with all of their forces... it'd be a massacre, period.

[LBO]

Another problem: eating. The Tyranids are known to avoid Necron-controlled planets, apparently because they have trouble eating them. Well, if they have trouble eating robots, an entire faction of swarms of robots is big trouble.
I thought the reason Nids avoided tomb worlds because of the whole "psychic horror" thing, although the fact that there's no biomass on a real Tomb World would help.


I can never remember the difference between Core and Arm, which one of them are supposed to be the good guys, and which one has Peewees. And that's maybe because it's 5 am here, but wikipedia doesn't enlighten me on it.
Core are the ones that enforce patterning on everyone, whose armies are made of mass-copied patterns downloaded into robots; Arm are the splinter group that oppose patterning, whose armies are made of mass-copied clones welded into robots. Neither can really be considered "good", as both sides have basically forgotten their original reasons for starting the war.
Arm has Peewees, Core has AKs.


Are you sure posting a link to one of the most notoriously NSFW boards in existence is a good idea?
...Good point. Added a warning, though there's nothing bad on that particular thread other than gratuitous cussing.

Oh, important detail - Galactic Gate travel is only instantaneous if there's a Gate on both worlds. Otherwise, you need to fly there normally in order to build one, and Total Annihilation spaceflight is generally really slow; that's the whole idea behind the Commander (see the story I linked to).

[Dhavaer]

Cavedog apparently stated that Total Annihilation fanfic is canon if the game doesn't say anything, and as a result, the CORE have some of the most obnoxiously wanky spaceships in all of sci-fi. They win easily.

[Oslecamo]

The total anihilation universe is one of the most crazy powerfull fantasy universe of history.

After all, the premise between them is that a single robot(the comander) deployed in a planet can make an army in a matter of hours, a world empire in a matter of days and god knows what in a matter of years.

Even the Tyrannids aren't that fast.


As a side note, I think that fanfic is too romancized. Every half decent TA player would imediatily blow up his comander in the middle of the enemy rancks should he start to be swarmed(since when destroyed he explodes in an atomic blast).

However, I would like to see who would win between a krogoth and a hierophant.

[Storm Bringer]

I think we can add TA to the list of things that can top 40K.

40K's biggest weapon is it's scale. the nid fleets have bascially the entire biomass of a galaxy, possible several, at thier disposal.

The smallest CORE mech is somewhat bigger than a carnifex, which on the 40K is one of thier heavy hitters.


If this was Supreme commander, then we'd have mechs that could outscale 40k titans. I'm pretty sure a monkeylord could top a reaver, no probs.

As it is, we just have a large mech whoose D-gun is insta kill. I wonder if it works like a scaled up eldar D-cannon (which shoots what is for all intents and purposes a black hole at the target an lets gravtic sheer do the rest.)?

[Dhavaer]

As it is, we just have a large mech whoose D-gun is insta kill. I wonder if it works like a scaled up eldar D-cannon (which shoots what is for all intents and purposes a black hole at the target an lets gravtic sheer do the rest.)?

The Commander's D-Gun 'works by suppressing the quantun field strength of the 'gluons' that hold together atomic nuclei. The matter violently tears itself apart, leaving hydrogen, deuterium and a burst of free neutrons.' Direct quote from the glossary in the game manual.

[Selrahc]

If this was Supreme commander, then we'd have mechs that could outscale 40k titans. I'm pretty sure a monkeylord could top a reaver, no probs.


Bear in mind that Heirophants and Warhound titans are right at the bottom of the scale for gigantic super bad stuff in 40K.

Emperor class titans are much much bigger(In Game sWorkshop Manchester they've got a scale model emperor Titan, and its only a little smaller than me. It's over 5 and a half foot, which to scale makes it hundreds of meters tall), and the Tyranids have stuff that can fight it.

If Supreme commander has assault mechs bigger than that, then I am impressed



As it is, we just have a large mech whoose D-gun is insta kill. I wonder if it works like a scaled up eldar D-cannon (which shoots what is for all intents and purposes a black hole at the target an lets gravtic sheer do the rest.)?

D cannons fire warp hikes at people, not black holes. It creates a complete break down in the laws of physics, and exposes you to horrific demons. Although a black hole would still be nasty.

[LBO]

Eh? It got moved here?

[Triaxx]

What's really funny is that even against something like a titan, the CORE wins. How? They live on a world composed entirely of metal. They land on the surface of the titan, and use it to fuel their army.

At worst, they retreat underwater and hit with their overwhelming naval power.

And in space, nothing out rules the Death Hand. Except the Longbow.

And yes, CORE is evil.

[Shovah]

Okay, CORE might have a fun time against regular titans. Bio-titans are another matter though.. Try fueling your robot army with that :smallwink: . Wait... bio-fuels... CORE win.

Nah, I love the little bugs =)

[Rutee]

40K's biggest weapon is it's scale.

Exactly. That's why when we include games that span galaxies, 40k stops being so untouchably uber.

[Tengu]

Core are the ones that enforce patterning on everyone, whose armies are made of mass-copied patterns downloaded into robots; Arm are the splinter group that oppose patterning, whose armies are made of mass-copied clones welded into robots. Neither can really be considered "good", as both sides have basically forgotten their original reasons for starting the war.
Arm has Peewees, Core has AKs.


Hey, thanks for explaining. And yeah, I know this game is basically about a full-scale war and doesn't really have the good and bad side, but when you helped me remember Arm was the side I meant as good because:
1. They're blue by default, Core is red. Blue is almost always the good side in RTS.
2. They have Peewees. Peewees might be weak, but they're fun.
3. Row row, fight da powa! The rebels are almost always the good guys if what they are against is not a spotless super-good kingdom.

I must play TA again. I loved the extreme amount of units you had in it, and the "from one unit to an obscenely huge base and army" idea was always appealing to me.

[Triaxx]

Definitely. And if you look around, you can find a hex-edited EXE that allows a max of 1500 units. :smallcool:

[Selrahc]

They land on the surface of the titan, and use it to fuel their army.

Can't. Void shields are in the way.

[Warshrike]

I'm actually putting my money on the Nids. The Core can only use Metals and Energy to fuel their armies, and do not seem to be the most adaptive force ever.

The Tyranids will use everything on a planet but the bare rock- including the CORE themselves. They can just spam Acid spores for a while if nothing else, and we know that a Genestealer can rip through a Land Raider... Which in turn could probably 1 hit kill a lot of CORE things, pew pew!! The nids also have larger things, although some of the guns in TA could stop them for a short while... Until they drop units directly onto them, or come from below...

I think we need to know the Space tech of CORE. The only way Tyranids have been "stopped" was through allowing them to take a planet, but fighting for every inch, and then when they go to start eating it, use Exterminatus to wipe out everything on it- Denying them of their gain and making their loss impossible to fix.
And I don't see the CORE luring them into Orky space.

However, I do imagine it possible the CORE have some Super Star Destroyers hidden away, maybe even a Death Star or a Pure Winconium Cannon.

[Albub]

outta curiousity, does anyone know where I could find the 1500-unit hex edit?

[Talkkno]

I think we need to know the Space tech of CORE. The only way Tyranids have been "stopped" was through allowing them to take a planet, but fighting for every inch, and then when they go to start eating it, use Exterminatus to wipe out everything on it- Denying them of their gain and making their loss impossible to fix.


Umm...The Tau codex details that the Tau were able to destroy a tyranid splinter hive fleet without them even landing on a planet and not losing a single ship in the first place. Keep in mid Tau cap ships are inferior the basic Imperium Lunar class cap ship.

[Warshrike]

Umm...The Tau codex details that the Tau were able to destroy a tyranid splinter hive fleet without them even landing on a planet and not losing a single ship in the first place. Keep in mid Tau cap ships are inferior the basic Imperium Lunar class cap ship.

I haven't read the new Tau Codex- My bad if that's true, though a Splinter Fleet is a little different to the minimum the Core would be facing. A full Hive Fleet > Splinter Fleet.

[Demented]

It's not a question of CORE vs. Tyranid.

It's a question of how much smaller the whole of the Tyranid fleet will be after wading through a galaxy's worth of antimatter nukes. :smalltongue: After all, from what I hear it's doubtful that the Tyranids could be stopped with the resources of any single galaxy...

[Triaxx]

Aboslute Annihilation comes with the 1500 unit EXE.

CORE has the Rapier. It's approximately as full of win as you can get until you finish that first Krogoth.

Don't forget the Tyranid's can only use the resources of the planet. After it's been stripped down to rock, CORE can land and build an empire there. Unless they stop on the way and eat the sun, we can build by converting energy to metal. And upon reaching the point of that first fusion reactor, we can support a battery of six long-range guns for continuous firing. We don't have to save the planet to win.

---

And gating does work one way, it just takes more energy.

[Cainen]

Update the topic link to the archived thread(NOT SAFE FOR WORK DUE TO 4CHAN) (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1641127/) - 4chan goes through threads faster than I go through mood swings.

[LBO]

1. They're blue by default, Core is red. Blue is almost always the good side in RTS.
Actually, both sides are blue when it's you playing them in the campaign. SO CONFUSING D:


The Core can only use Metals and Energy to fuel their armies,
...And what, exactly, is most of the substance of the universe made of? :smallconfused: Nids run on "biomass" (which doesn't really make any sense, but still), which is in vanishingly small quantities among the stars. Metal and energy is basically limitless. And CORE can turn theirs into functioning units ridiculously quickly, whereas Nids are "growing" theirs. How long does it take to grow a Carnifex? Because a single kbot lab with some assistance can produce an AK in one second, and CORE can cover planets in such labs.


Which in turn could probably 1 hit kill a lot of CORE things, pew pew!! The nids also have larger things, although some of the guns in TA could stop them for a short while... Until they drop units directly onto them, or come from below...
According to the generally-agreed-on scale, the Core AK is about the size of a Carnifex. This is the spambot, the very weakest of the weakest T1 units, and it's got rapid-fire lascannons and could stamp on Gaunts all year. Tech 2 bots and vehicles are equivalent to the meanest assault spawn. They don't get that much bigger, but they get a hell of a lot nastier.
TA armour is compressed-giant-molecule stuff like General Products hulls. I don't see teeth and acid working on that.


Emperor class titans are much much bigger(In Game sWorkshop Manchester they've got a scale model emperor Titan, and its only a little smaller than me. It's over 5 and a half foot, which to scale makes it hundreds of meters tall), and the Tyranids have stuff that can fight it.

Can't. Void shields are in the way.
Five Intimidator rounds or BLoD hits. Crippled wreck for the C-bots to do their nanoscale OM NOM NOM on.

TA has fantastic long-range arty. You could send a dozen Imperators at a Buzzsaw and none of them would get within plasma annihilator range. Also, the Buzzsaw is something they can construct in a matter of hours (and that's the AwesomeButImpractical version, the far-more-accurate single-shot Timmy is a fraction of the resources).

Imperium has no chance against CORE, at all. The only 40k factions which even come close are Nids (another planet-looting swarm), Necrons (sufficiently advanced magitek) and Eldar (by virtue of not being noticed, rather than having a hope of beating them).

[Triaxx]

Of course, once the Eldar start to attack, the Commander starts spamming away with his D-Gun.

[Selrahc]

TA has fantastic long-range arty. You could send a dozen Imperators at a Buzzsaw and none of them would get within plasma annihilator range. Also, the Buzzsaw is something they can construct in a matter of hours (and that's the AwesomeButImpractical version, the far-more-accurate single-shot Timmy is a fraction of the resources).


How long range? Because a plasma annhilator is a very short range gun for a titan weapon. For an artillery war, a titan would probably fit itself up with volcano cannons(240" range), apocalypse missile launchers or quake cannons(360" range), or a vortex missile(480" range). Bear in mind this is stuff from non emperor class titans, and the biggest ones will have even longer range guns.

Aside from that, shelling matches aren't really what you use a titan for. Titans are used to attack places of exceptional resistance, with anything that would set up to kill them(Such as long range artillery) being taken down by strike teams, imperial artillery groups, or air forces.



Five Intimidator rounds or BLoD hits. Crippled wreck for the C-bots to do their nanoscale OM NOM NOM on.

Okay... Except nothing can cripple an emperor in five shots. Emperors have dozens of void shields, which can take one hit each, no matter how big the blast. And the fact that once you've taken down the shields, you really need to rip huge chunks out of the titan to stop it from working, all the time in which the shields are coming back online, and the techpriests are repairing the damage. If you cripple it enough to make it non functional, its reactors will probably explode in a giant nuclear fireball.

So you may well be able to kill it, but you can't kill it in just 5 shots, and you can't salvage the wreck, unless you get lucky.




Imperium has no chance against CORE, at all.

Never said they did. That doesn't mean that I can't say stuff about how their titans work.

[Albub]

Maybe you've never seen a good TA match online. The titans (that's right, plural) wouldn't last a single arty volley.

[Selrahc]

Maybe you've never seen a good TA match online. The titans (that's right, plural) wouldn't last a single arty volley.

No. I haven't. But you said 5 shots would down a titan. It couldn't, since five shots from anything can't destroy a titan.

I do find it fairly hard to believe that emperor class titans are going to be outgunned, since they can load up with Vortex missiles, which rip things right out of the dimension they exist in, or that a computer game is going to show something with a range of a dozen or so kilometres.

Also... you out power vortex missiles how? I mean the radius in which they are effective, they basically rip everything asunder, no save. No, not even then. the only thing you could possibly improve is the area of effect it operates in. Which is already fairly massive.

[LBO]

How long range? Because a plasma annhilator is a very short range gun for a titan weapon. For an artillery war, a titan would probably fit itself up with volcano cannons(240" range), apocalypse missile launchers or quake cannons(360" range), or a vortex missile(480" range). Bear in mind this is stuff from non emperor class titans, and the biggest ones will have even longer range guns.
...Wait, since when can an Imperator Titan carry a different loadout? Plasma annihilator, gatling thing of doom, defence laser, cathedral turrets - I thought it had a completely inflexible armament. Maybe they changed the rules for Epic:Armageddon, but in my oldskool Epic 40k rulebook here and every battle report ever, it's never deviated from that. So don't tell me it'll "have even longer range guns". A vortex missile can go a hell of a long range, but a Bertha or a Timmy can fire hundreds of kilometres. Converted to TA scale, an Imperator is about the size of the really big Krog/Orcone in Absolute Annihilation, and in that scale a 480" vortex missile is nothing.


Aside from that, shelling matches aren't really what you use a titan for. Titans are used to attack places of exceptional resistance, with anything that would set up to kill them(Such as long range artillery) being taken down by strike teams, imperial artillery groups, or air forces.
If the enemy has longer range guns than you, you're going to get into a shelling match whether you want to or not. A single Buzzsaw is a killzone for hundreds of miles around. "Strike teams". You are not getting humies through their ground defences no matter what, and let's not even go into the disparity in aircraft quality. Not happening. Drop pods/teleportation are basically the only options, and a single LLT (tech 1 laser turret, takes a heartbeat to build with no nano-assistance) could melt Terminators and Dreadnoughts all day.

And a single Titan is a nigh-irreplaceable shrine to the Omnissiah. Everything in TA can be built in a matter of hours, if not minutes, from the simplest of resources. Hell, if the AdMech worked out what Central Consciousness actually was, they'd beg to be patterned.


Okay... Except nothing can cripple an emperor in five shots. Emperors have dozens of void shields, which can take one hit each, no matter how big the blast.
Streamlined game rules =\= actual damage resistance, but since I can't remember how exactly void shields work, you can have that one. So, we need twenty rounds from insanely powerful LRPC emplacements that can be built in the time it takes a Titan to walk a hundredth part of their range. Still screwed.


And the fact that once you've taken down the shields, you really need to rip huge chunks out of the titan to stop it from working, all the time in which the shields are coming back online, and the techpriests are repairing the damage. If you cripple it enough to make it non functional, its reactors will probably explode in a giant nuclear fireball.
And correct me if I'm incorrect, but there's nothing in principle stopping you from dropping a sufficiently powerful round right on the Titan's head. Princeps dead, bridge crew dead, lose MIU, lose main guns, lose shields, lose movement, and leaves you with a lot of Tech-Guard down to tertiary weapons and small arms in a really, really big sitting target. TA weapons have the accuracy and the power to do that, adamantium be damned.


So you may well be able to kill it, but you can't kill it in just 5 shots, and you can't salvage the wreck, unless you get lucky.

Is fine, we'll just take the planet's core instead. There is no shortage of metal among the stars. Of course, if there's anything left at all of the Imperator, we could rez it...

All of this is kind of immaterial anyway, as even on an AdMech forge world, they wouldn't even have time to warm up the plasma reactors before they got swarmed to nothing. TA wins against any "normal" faction, but it would still be cool to see Titans vs Krogs.

[Selrahc]

...Wait, since when can an Imperator Titan carry a different loadout?

Since the epic rulebook is a simplification of things, and all titans currently published in 40k scale have had the capability to switch around their weapon systems.


and in that scale a 480" vortex missile is nothing.

Of course there is the issue that 480" is supposed to be a really really really long way. A basilisks Earthshaker cannon can shell things from twenty miles away, and the vortex missile has a range twice as long.




If the enemy has longer range guns than you, you're going to get into a shelling match whether you want to or not.

Not neccesarily. Like I said, send advance teams to clear out stuff with big guns. Nuke artillery bases from space. It might not work here because of TA's uberness, but it would normally. Big titans don't go in unsuported.



Streamlined game rules =\= actual damage resistance, but since I can't remember how exactly void shields work, you can have that one.

Void shields are set up in banks. You have to smash through each one seperately. You hit a shield, you find another one behind it, none of your shots hit more than one shield at once, and the shields come back online fairly quickly.

The big weakness is that if you get in close, you get inside the void shields, so demolitions teams could get in under the shield and plant charges.




So, we need twenty rounds from insanely powerful LRPC emplacements that can be built in the time it takes a Titan to walk a hundredth part of their range.

Twenty might do it, but even with really powerful shots, its fairly unlikely. Titans are resilient beasts. A big imperial class titan would have about 18 void shields, so you would only hit the titan with two actual shots. It would be really crazy to knock down a titan in two shots. This is assuming a simultaneous strike by all twenty missiles, because with a power source as big as the one on the Emperor titans, void shields would be coming back online every couple of seconds.



And correct me if I'm incorrect, but there's nothing in principle stopping you from dropping a sufficiently powerful round right on the Titan's head.

Aside from the many many void shields? I guess if you were accurate enough, and had a powerful enough weapon, you could go for the headshot. You'd still be lucky not to trigger the reactor.


All of this is kind of immaterial anyway, as even on an AdMech forge world, they wouldn't even have time to warm up the plasma reactors before they got swarmed to nothing. TA wins against any "normal" faction, but it would still be cool to see Titans vs Krogs.

Sounds like it.

[Triaxx]

First of all, those aren't missiles, but balls of superheated plasma. Second, twenty rounds will impact, and the next rounds are typically in the air before the first have impacted. Around half range is where the RFMRPC's start to fire. This also assumes we haven't fired nukes, or neutron missiles as well. They might not hurt the Titan, but they will eliminate the support.

So your Vortex Missile fires from fourty miles away? Anti-missile defenses knock them out of the sky before they get near.

Anyway, the Krogoth has a very powerful back mounted missile launcher with nearly the same range as the battleships.

[Selrahc]

First of all, those aren't missiles, but balls of superheated plasma.

I thought we were talking about D cannon shots, that smash through everything rather than *just* plasma. Giant balls of superheated plasma is pretty much the level of punishment titans are designed to take with their main armour. So even once you break through the void shields, you're going to need to do a lot of work to take down the titan afterwards. And you certainly wouldn't be able to headshot a titans head off.

So the titans are potentially taking hundreds of shots as far as I can tell. Thats probably not a problem for the TA forces to dish out, buts its a lot more impressive than a five shot take down by any random mook.



So your Vortex Missile fires from fourty miles away? Anti-missile defenses knock them out of the sky before they get near.

Well that just means it needs to get around missile defences. Like by firing hundreds of hunterkiller missiles to clog up the defences.

Or just swap to a different gun. A quake cannon or volcano cannon(Or emperor class equivalent) is about the same range, and while not quite as deadly as a vortex missile they're still really really deadly guns. And wouldn't be shoot downable.

[Oslecamo]

I don't know if you know it, but there is currently an opensource game that is basically a copy of the original Total anihilation, but free, a decent online community and several mods and maps available for download.

It's called spring, it's quite fast to download, and ironically has a mod wich allows it to run with WH40K based units.

More info here.

http://spring-portal.com/

EDIT:And since we're at it, the CORE has heavy artillery pieces that can shoot hot concentrated balls of plasma across half a planet.

[Triaxx]

Oh, in that case it doesn't matter where the COM shoots, or even if it's firing through shields. The D-Gun destroy's instantly.

[Demented]

Would you really want to waste a valuable commander on an Imperator Titan?


...Yes, yes I would.

[LBO]

Since the epic rulebook is a simplification of things, and all titans currently published in 40k scale have had the capability to switch around their weapon systems.
All titans except the Imperator have, in all rules systems (including Epic) been able to take different weapons. While you can load out Warhounds and Warlords and Reavers with whatever you like, the Imperator has never, ever deviated from plasma annihilator, hellstorm cannon, defence laser, death cathedral. (The Warmonger variant, being on the same chassis but with an entirely different loadout - which it never deviates from - is basically a different Titan). (And since a grand total of two Imperial titan classes have been brought out in 40k scale, and 40k has never been the place for Titans, that's a really stupid justification.)


Walking a cloaked Comm up to a Krogoth and D-gunning it to nothing at point blank is among the most awesome things ever done in a game of TA, second only to totalling the defences of a Vulcan and capturing it. Bonus points if it's got full health.

[Selrahc]

Oh, in that case it doesn't matter where the COM shoots, or even if it's firing through shields. The D-Gun destroy's instantly.


Except it doesn't get to hit the titan. It gets to instantly destroy the shield.

What would work is to run in close and fire the D gun, or to break the shields with artillery and then D gun the titan.


Walking a cloaked Comm up to a Krogoth and D-gunning it to nothing at point blank is among the most awesome things ever done in a game of TA,

Like that. That sounds like it would work.



All titans except the Imperator have, in all rules systems (including Epic) been able to take different weapons. While you can load out Warhounds and Warlords and Reavers with whatever you like, the Imperator has never, ever deviated from plasma annihilator, hellstorm cannon, defence laser, death cathedral. (The Warmonger variant, being on the same chassis but with an entirely different loadout - which it never deviates from - is basically a different Titan). (And since a grand total of two Imperial titan classes have been brought out in 40k scale, and 40k has never been the place for Titans, that's a really stupid justification.)

In fluff I've seen the imperator titans with different weapons. The only model of an imperator titan I have seen had a completely diffeent weapon loadaout than you've described. As you've said, there are different weapon set ups even in epic.

I don't see why an Imperator Titan wouldn't be able to swap weapon systems.

[Oslecamo]

Except it doesn't get to hit the titan. It gets to instantly destroy the shield.

What would work is to run in close and fire the D gun, or to break the shields with artillery and then D gun the titan.



The D-gun is an area attack. It doesn't matter how much stuff it's in the way, it'll get all destroyed. So the shield colapses, and then the titan behind blows up, all with one shot.

D-Gun was originally created as an anti rush method. It can easily wipe out groups of small units in the blinck of an eye because it affects a line area. So if your enemy sudenly came out of nowhere with a dozen Kbots and you had no army, you could still wipe out that force with two or three well aimed D-gun shots.

[Murongo]

Pht anything in 40k with the possible exception of the chaos gods, as they may be omnipotent for all we know would get owned by either the arm or the core. More so the core. "What began as a conflict over the transfer of conciousness from flesh to machine became a war that has decimated a million worlds." A million. The Imperium has what, a few hundred? I wonder which side wanted to stay flesh, and why they're still fighting, considering they're both clearly robots now. Oh well, the only acceptable outcome is the total annihalation of the other, why argue.

[LBO]

Pht anything in 40k with the possible exception of the chaos gods, as they may be omnipotent for all we know would get owned by either the arm or the core. More so the core. "What began as a conflict over the transfer of conciousness from flesh to machine became a war that has decimated a million worlds." A million. The Imperium has what, a few hundred? I wonder which side wanted to stay flesh, and why they're still fighting, considering they're both clearly robots now. Oh well, the only acceptable outcome is the total annihalation of the other, why argue.
The Imperium is fricking massive. It has millions of worlds and trillions of people. TA will still win in a few weeks (which shows just how crazy fast TA production is) but the Imperium's power should not be understated.

It was Arm that were against patterning at the beginning.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, CORE has mind patterns copied into robots, ARM has clones of their best warriors slotted into robot suits.

[BrainFreeze]

I think i'd rather see the Necrons on the 40k side instead of the Nyds. While their numbers are theoretically smaller(we dont know) They are the only army that can match the CORE's manuverability in space(teleportation). On top of that their ability to have their "normal" warriors destroy armored targets with little to no effort.

[Triaxx]

Ooh, robots. We can reclaim those.

[Oslecamo]

The Imperium is fricking massive. It has millions of worlds and trillions of people. TA will still win in a few weeks (which shows just how crazy fast TA production is) but the Imperium's power should not be understated.


Actually, the emperium has exactly around one million habitated planets. Give or take some as new planets are colonized and others destroyed.

[BrainFreeze]

Ooh, robots. We can reclaim those.

Robots whose remains teleport to random world #43 upon "death" inorder to be reused? Feel free to try.

[Oslecamo]

They only teleport if they're losing badly, wich gives time for the TA units to reclaim them during battle.

After all, the Imperium has managed to capture some necron examplars for study, wich proves that their escape plan isn't 100%

Mind you, the sheer size of the basic TA warrior probably means even the necrons aren't safe from their weapons. Even pewees are as tall as trees after all.

[LBO]

Heh, you know, Necrons vs TA actually came up on the /tg/ thread... Let me copy and paste a bit in from the archive (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1641127/).



Also, the following sample scenario:

(Necrons awaken)

Necrons: DEEAATH

Arm: okay, flash rush time

Necrons: AHHHHHHHHHH

Arm: Those guys were slower than a krogoth in water.

Necrons: (getting back up ominously)

Arm: ****, almost forgot, every time I swear...(beep beep beep)

Construction Planes and Vehicles: reporting in and mmm mmmm num num reclaiming delicious metal

Necrons: WE'RE TOO OLD FOR THIS ****

You can't recycle necrom... necronmetal.

It forms back into Necrons. Enjoy getting raped by NecronARM and NecronCore.

D-Gun tiem!

Matter to Matter conversion. It doesn't matter what it was made of once the nanites take it apart and force it to transmute into another element.

Except it goes from NecronMatterA to NecronMatterB in that case.

Then they'll just turn that mass it into energy instead.

No more necrons

Then it goes from Necron matter into Necron energy and you have to fight invincible necrons made of pure energy.


And then a bit later:


So I was right? If you hit them with a D-gun or something like the BIG BLUE LAZOR and completely utterly annihilate them at an atomic level, they'll stay dead?

I should hope so. It's kinda hard to reconstitute something from stray base molecules.

They're Necrons, they can do that.

Ahhh, 4chan. How I love thee... :smallamused:

[Demented]

Reclaim Wreckage: Convert directly to metal. Do not pass GO. Do not resurrect 200 necrons.

Which is a shame, actually.
It would be easier than capturing them. Then again, a CORE Commander could just invade a tombworld and go capturing everything it sees until it finds something useful.

Then you'd have a new variety of CORE units, that are basically the same, except green.

[Triaxx]

Entertainingly, CORE is cannonically capable of direct ressurection, which alters the state of the unit to be allied with CORE. So *necron dies*, *Necro restores*, *core allied necron*