Quarantining the "Vs Thread" plague

[bosssmiley]

Would it perhaps be possible to hive the plague of "_____ vs. _____" threads in Media Discussion off into a section (or sub-section) of their own please? Some of them can be funny, but it does get a bit wearisome wading through dozens of the damnable things in search of serious book or film recommendations.

Sorry if this has come up before.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Ha. You think this is bad? Apparently you weren't here last Jan-Feb or so. I think that's when it was.

They didn't get their own board then, and they won't now. It's a cyclical fad, it'll die down.

[Tirian]

LOL. By contrast, back then every possible pairing of Voldemort, Darth Vader, Sauron, and two other characters that I have thankfully managed to repress was a thread in Media Discussions. It's hard to justify "If you don't like them, don't read them" when there is virtually nothing else on the front page.

This isn't the plague, this is barely the sniffles.

[puppyavenger]

LOL. By contrast, back then every possible pairing of Voldemort, Darth Vader, Sauron, and two other characters that I have thankfully managed to repress was a thread in Media Discussions. It's hard to justify "If you don't like them, don't read them" when there is virtually nothing else on the front page.

This isn't the plague, this is barely the sniffles.

and 40k don't forget 40k

[Rutee]

It's a cyclical fad, it'll die down.

Yep. 2 weeks ago, my exact thoughts on seeing the MEdia Discussions thread was "Man I'm glad they didn't give Vs. Threads their own forum now; There aren't even any on the front page"

[Haruki-kun]

Actually, there's already a Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70661) regarding the rules for Vs. Threads.

[Kosmopolite]

Well, I've seen 'Versus' subfora work well on other forums. It's fun, playful and doesn't clog up actual discussion sections. I don't know if there's been a mod ruling or something, but I think it's a good idea.

[EvilElitest]

Vs. thread are hardly a plague, any more than miko threads are a plauge. If you start quarantining one type of thread, you can't stop there. It fits in media section and deserves to be there
from
EE

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I never quite understood the logic of the Vs. threads in Media Discussions...

I've always seen them as a type of "Silly Message Board Game" or something along those lines.

But yeah, fads blast through these threads pretty quickly. We've got a lot of Hannible Lecters down in OotS harvesting all the internal organs of anyone who asks about converting OotS to 4th Ed.

[Gorbash Kazdar]

I currently see 9 Vs threads on the first page of Media Discussion (there were 11, but 2 were in the wrong section). This is way down from where it was a few months ago, and as long as it remains this way and people follow the guidelines in the post linked above, they're fine.

And if they do get out of control again, we're far more likely to simply ban the thread type than waste bandwidth and server space on a subforum for them.

[Ego Slayer]

I currently see 9 Vs threads on the first page of Media Discussion
Hey, whadoy'know... that's like 5 less than last time I ventured into Media Discussion months ago. =P

[Nerd-o-rama]

Vs. thread are hardly a plague, any more than miko threads are a plauge. If you start quarantining one type of thread, you can't stop there. It fits in media section and deserves to be there
from
EEMight not be the best example, as most of the Miko threads I've seen have been either trolling or repost spam. At least most Vs. threads have slightly different content.

I never quite understood the logic of the Vs. threads in Media Discussions...Vs. threads go in whatever forum their subjects go under.

"Solid Snake vs. Darth Revan" would go under Gaming (Other) because that's a video game thread. "Agatha Heterodyne vs. Black Mage" would go in Webcomics. Etc.

(Incidentally, the winners are Solid Snake and Agatha Heterodyne).

Most things just default to Media Discussions because that's a catch-all for characters not from games, comic books, or webcomics. When it's a cross-genre thing, such as "Lavos (Video Game) vs. Evangelion (TV)", people tend to default to Media Discussions, possibly because it's the most general. Although maybe that one could use a move to Gaming (Other) since I keep posting Super Robot Wars content in it...

[Lord Iames Osari]

I never quite understood the logic of the Vs. threads in Media Discussions...

I've always seen them as a type of "Silly Message Board Game" or something along those lines.
It's very simple. Vs. Threads are by their nature a discussion of a hypothetical conflict between two or more characters or factions appearing in any of the various media. Further, however silly they may or may not be, and despite the fact that they are in this cace taking place on a message board, they are not games. Therefore, they belong in Media Discussions (unless there is a suitable, more specific place for them, as Nerd-o-rama said), not Silly Message Board Games.

[sheepofoblivion]

maybe it's just me... but I think that they're a plague as well... it's just a popularity contest//whichever character has more books written about them. I participated in a few, and Master Cheif, Drizzt Do 'Urden, all those epic superpeoples would prevail over the 38 from Republic Commando, who only has (as far as I know) a single video game to be based off of. Halo has series written about it! Sometimes it can be close, it can be a nice discussion and can have rational thought involved, but in some cases (MC v. 38) it was mostly 3-1 popular v. the nobody who actually contributed... and

ZOMG!!! MASTER CHIEF!!! I personally think I was scarred for life and never want to participate in another "vs thread" again...

[EvilElitest]

maybe it's just me... but I think that they're a plague as well... it's just a popularity contest//whichever character has more books written about them. I participated in a few, and Master Cheif, Drizzt Do 'Urden, all those epic superpeoples would prevail over the 38 from Republic Commando, who only has (as far as I know) a single video game to be based off of. Halo has series written about it! Sometimes it can be close, it can be a nice discussion and can have rational thought involved, but in some cases (MC v. 38) it was mostly 3-1 popular v. the nobody who actually contributed... and

ZOMG!!! MASTER CHIEF!!! I personally think I was scarred for life and never want to participate in another "vs thread" again...

A popularity contest? Have you seen LK vs. Sauron. No way
from
EE

[bosssmiley]

Ha. You think this is bad? Apparently you weren't here last Jan-Feb or so. I think that's when it was.

I was here when Vs Threads last reached pandemic proportions. I even recall December's unimprovable "Pucca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pucca) vs. Gandalf", which was either one of the best trolls I've ever seen, or the final proof that the Internet is collectively devoid of taste. :smallamused:

Pucca vs Gandalf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67412). There should be a rule-of-thumb for Vs Threads: if your new pairing isn't at least as funny and absurd as the highwater mark of sheer WTFery reached there, just don't bother.


They didn't get their own board then, and they won't now. It's a cyclical fad, it'll die down.

I was just suggesting we try to contain the outbreak before it reached 'crosses on nailed-up doors' proportions again. Fair enough though.

[LBO]

maybe it's just me... but I think that they're a plague as well... it's just a popularity contest//whichever character has more books written about them. I participated in a few, and Master Cheif, Drizzt Do 'Urden, all those epic superpeoples would prevail over the 38 from Republic Commando, who only has (as far as I know) a single video game to be based off of. Halo has series written about it! Sometimes it can be close, it can be a nice discussion and can have rational thought involved, but in some cases (MC v. 38) it was mostly 3-1 popular v. the nobody who actually contributed... and

ZOMG!!! MASTER CHIEF!!! I personally think I was scarred for life and never want to participate in another "vs thread" again...
Well, you're wrong. Who do you think has more fans, 40k or Total Annihilation?

Yeah.

[Om]

It's a cyclical fad, it'll die down.It took months for the original plague to ease and (I really wish I'd kept a history of my sig) as late as March 40+% percent of the MD was taken up with Versus Threads*. Even now there are nine such threads which translates as almost 19% of the MD front page**. Which is actually up on mid-April (11%)

I see no reason to suspect that this infestation will either die out naturally or refuse to flare up again in a month or two. Moderator action is undoubtedly required

*I still don't know/care who Azula is

**Eleven including the two which were moved to other forums. The 19% figure is based off the number of active threads - that is, the total thread count does not include stickied or moved threads

[Artemician]

It took months for the original plague to ease and (I really wish I'd kept a history of my sig) as late as March 40+% percent of the MD was taken up with Versus Threads*. Even now there are nine such threads which translates as almost 19% of the MD front page**. Which is actually up on mid-April (11%)

I see no reason to suspect that this infestation will either die out naturally or refuse to flare up again in a month or two. Moderator action is undoubtedly required.

99% of the Threads on the d20 and Tabletop Gaming board are D&D threads. If a person did not care for D&D, he would doubtless find these threads not helpful. So, we should split them into two boards. Oh wait, for the newly created D&D board, 19% of the threads are 4e threads! We should create a 4e subforum too! Yes, that's much better.

Oh noes! The SMBG section is 20% filled with Heal/Hurts! Let's create a Heal/Hurt subforum. Oh uhm. 70% of the Heal/Hurts are Media Character Heal/Hurts. Let's make a sub-sub forum for them as well!

Looking back at the SMBG section, we can see that 30% of the remaining threads are Werewolf/Vampire/Polar Bear/Similar game threads. We should create another subforum to accomodate these threads.

etc.

etc.

Where do you end, if you want to start compartmentalizing all threads into awfully specific subforums? You can make a case of this, if the volume and speed of one particular type of thread is drowning out most of the discussion, and you judge that a subforum devoted to that kind of thread will stand on its own. But looking at the Media Subforum, you see 8 (+2 moved) Versus threads on the frontpage. That by no means is drowning out other discussion, given that you have 50 threads on the frontpage. By no means are they flooding out discussion through speed either; you see that the bottom thread of Media has not been posted in a week. If you want to create a thread, it is highly unlikely to say the least that it will be flooded off the frontpage.

[Om]

Where do you end, if you want to start compartmentalizing all threads into awfully specific subforums?Frankly I don't care what happens to versus threads as long as they stop clogging up the MD forum

In contrasting the opinions in this thread to that of my original warning (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59151), I think its safe to say that time has validated my concerns and that many posters are simply fed up with these threads and their detrimental impact on MD. The only real discussion at this point is whether they will die out of their own accord or should the moderation team intervene. That at least is progress of sorts


But looking at the Media Subforum, you see 8 (+2 moved) Versus threads on the frontpage. That by no means is drowning out other discussion, given that you have 50 threads on the frontpageIts actually 9+2 which, as I mention above, is roughly 19% of the front page volume. That this apparently judged, based on opinion in this thread, to be a "low" percentage says a great deal about the number of Versus threads that once blighted the forum

At what point do you consider that a type of thread is "drowning out other discussion"? Forty percent? fifty percent? (IIRC the versus threads broke the 50% barrier in Feb) Why is twenty percent more acceptable or tolerable? Imagine if 20% of the threads in the OotS forum were "Fan Clubs", what would the moderating team do then? Oh wait...

[Artemician]

Frankly I don't care what happens to versus threads as long as they stop clogging up the MD forum
...
At what point do you consider that a type of thread is "drowning out other discussion"? Forty percent? fifty percent? (IIRC the versus threads broke the 50% barrier in Feb) Why is twenty percent more acceptable or tolerable? Imagine if 20% of the threads in the OotS forum were "Fan Clubs", what would the moderating team do then? Oh wait...

The way I see it, the main beef that people have is that Versus threads tend to either

a) Involve forms of media they are not interested in
or
b) Involve a form of discussion they don't like.

However, there are people who; conversely, do like these media/forms of discussion. What right do you have to say that they can't discuss what they like?

The common rebuttal is that Versus Threads pose a detriment of some kind to the Media Subforum, namely that Versus Threads (which I don't like to see) fill the front page very quickly, not allowing me room to discuss what I want.

However, I have already rebutted this in my previous post. Versus threads, neither in Quantity or in rate of Proliferation push threads off the front page. You have asked me where I draw the line. I repeat it again, I draw the line when these particular forms of threads push other forms off the front page. I don't see this happening at the current time.

The logical next step would be to set up a hypothesis that there might be a repeat of February's Vs Thread explosion, which may or may not necessitate action depending on how dire the situation is. We cannot, however, say with absolute certainty that this situation will occur.

We can, however, say with absolute certainty that creating an additional specific subforum and moving threads is work for the Moderators. So unless a necessity for action is proved, odds are no action is going to be taken.

I would also like to point to the state of media between February and the present, where you can clearly much see that Versus Threads have been quite unpopular. On page 2 you have 5 threads, on page 3 you have 2 and on page 4 you have 5 again. By page 5 you've reached February. 4 threads/month is hardly drowning out discussion.

[Rawhide]

I think I'll just shut down this argument right here before it gets more out of hand.

Please see this thread regarding some useful guidelines about what makes a good vs. thread and what doesn't.