View Full Version : Help with PC build

2008-05-04, 08:53 AM
Hello all,
I am new to the boards, but I figured I'd jump right in and ask for any help or ideas.

My DM is challengeing us to make a 30th lvl gest PC. There are seven in my group and they left it to me to make a frontline fighter. So any suggestions on a great combo for that would be helpful.

My REAL question though is I figured I'd try and be sneaky and add a divine rank and just make up a God, but I can't figure how that would work into the CR scheme. Was going to make a fighter 30//monk ? - divine rank - any suggestions how many ranks of the "60" total effective character levels the divine rank 0 or 1 would cost.

Just as a side note, I did make a funny gest pc: a Mage Bred, Awakened, paragon, legendary, dire ape, half-iron golem, monk// fighter

2008-05-04, 09:26 AM
*ducks from monk and fighter haters*

stop right there no monk fighter please no 2 worst classes in PHB. Know if you are playing a tank play a Codzilla instead all the melee of a fighter + spells, or go barbarian/duskblade

Kurald Galain
2008-05-04, 09:30 AM
Try this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2)...

2008-05-04, 09:45 AM
Divine ranks 0 and 1 gain some pretty amazing abilities, especially for a combat oriented character. If the other players are doing epic spellcasting, and only if that, divine ranks might be the only way for a melee-focused character to keep up.

As a rough guide (and only with the assumption that you're trying to balance with spellcaster), I'd sacrifice five character levels to get Divine 1.

2008-05-04, 11:08 AM
Go Monk//"insert any other WIS based class here"

Crazy Scot
2008-05-05, 06:16 AM
A couple of notes for you. If you are truly thinking of trying to take divine ranks, I would definitely run that by the DM. He/she should definitely know what the heck you are doing, but with a good arguement about trying to keep up with full-casters/epic spellcasting, you could possibly convince the DM to allow it.

As to the fighter, it depends upon what you want to do. From the thread so far, it seems you are leaning toward a melee fighter type character. At level 30, and with spellcasting support, you should be in pretty good shape for ranged bombardment of spells, so ranged fighter-type character might not be the best idea.

If you are looking for a level 30 gestalt fighter build, then I am going to assume that the other characters you will be playing with will be more than capable of casting/taking care of themselves, leaving you to worry about yourself only. With that in mind, I would recommend something like this, if you don't mind overlapping a bit with the other players' abilities: NG Warforged Druid 30//Saint (+2 LA)/Erudite 5/Metamind 10/Diamond Dragon 10/Warblade 3. Now I know that I may get hit really hard for this *ducking from coming blows*, but one of the best fighter-type builds is CoDzilla, and this combination that I spelled out is the uber-brokenness of CoDzilla. So here comes the best explanation that I can give.

Druid 30 (go with the Unearthed Arcana - alternate class feature (sacrifice your armor/shield proficiencies and wildshaping, to gain Favored Enemies/Track/swift tracking (as a Ranger), and gain fast movement/AC bonuses (as a Monk)) With the Saint template, you now would have a +7 bonus to AC (from 30 equivalent levels of Monk) and double your Wisdom modifier to AC. Druid also has a huge selection of very nice buff spells that you can use on yourself to get even more brokenness.

Saint-template (one of the most useful templates you could get your hands on, check out the Book of Exalted Deeds to see for yourself (somewhere around page 150)

Erudite (Complete Psionic - effectively an alternate class very similar to the Psion, with the ability to learn more powers, but limited to the number of unique powers you can use per day [not a problem, see more later]) If you take the alternate class feature from the WotC website, you can learn any arcane spell as a psionic power (your choice of either a short time or permanently)

Metamind (Expanded Psionics Handbook - prestige class) Here is the best kicker yet - the 10th level ability of this class gives you unlimited power points for 1 minute, once per day. Throw in two specific powers (Temporal Reiteration, and Schism) and you have unlimited power points indefinitely! To see how to abuse this, see below.

Dragon Disiple (Dragon Magic - prestige class) probably one of the weaker choices in this build, but could well be worth it in the long run (see below).

Warblade (Tome of Battle) - Again, not the most effective use of levels, but the key for this one is to get a single "stance" called Blood in the Water. Basically, any time you get a critical hit you receive an untyped +1 bonus to hit and damage (since it is untyped it stacks with anything, including itself). If you go for more than one minute without making a successful critical hit, then the bonus resets to +0. But if you use the combination below to make any "ongoing effect" last indefinitely, then this would never drop off, and would just continue to build. If your group expects you do be doing a lot of fighting, then you should be getting some crazy bonuses over time.

How to break this:
Use the following powers with 10th level class ability from Metamind: Temporal Reiteration (Complete Psionic (I believe) says that any "ongoing effect" on you effectively has its duration extended by 1 rnd), and Schism (Expanded Psionic Handbook - gives you a second mind which is completely autonomous from your first mind, and can take one purely-mental standard action per round on your turn). Use your "second mind" from Schism to have it continually manifest Temporal Reiteration, and that frees up your main mind/body to do whatever the heck you want to. You can cast any buff spell you want and its duration will effectively be permanent. Now, if you DM is being a wuss and says that if your main mind falls asleep your "second mind" does too, that is when you point out that you are a Warforged and never sleep! So you have infinite duration to any spell/power that is manifest/cast on you as long as your "second mind" is never eliminated.

Now start looking up buff spells/powers. You can choose any Druid, or any arcane spell, or any Psion power. Remember, you don't have to permanently get them memorized, just cast on you. If you look in the Player's handbook, there is a guide in the equipment section on how much it costs to have a spell cast on you by a spellcaster in a town. If you want to go that route, you can also use ANY spell/power that has a range of touch as a buff spell as well. Basically, anything that has a duration other than instantaneous or concentration should work. If you want to have more fun, spend some XP and permanently learn the 7th level arcane spell (it is a Wu jen spell, and Wu jen cast arcane spells) from Complete Arcane (I believe) that allows you to have a "concentration" spell last for 1 rnd/lvl (or something like that). This would allow concentration buff spells to last forever too.

If you are afraid of losing your wildshaping capabilities from Druid, don't worry! Use one of your 9th level Druid spells to cast Shapeshift. With the above combination, the spell would never run out, and now you can change into any non-unique creature of any size for as long as you want! Wildshaping is now obsolete!

Also, since you are now a full caster as well, you could take the Epic Spellcasting feat too and gain even more brokenness if you desire from that. Remember, if you want to design a spell for yourself, just load up on factors that deal energy damage to you when you cast it. If you use your Druid spells to cast Energy Immunity, you can get immunity to all forms of elemental damage. So who cares if you take 1000 hp of fire dam from casting an Epic spell, you are immune to fire so you take none! and now the you can cast uber Epic spells even sooner!

Again, going back to the buff spells, here are a few choice morsels for you to consider to help you in combat:

Arms of Plenty (arcane spell-I forget the source) -> grants you two additional arms
Girallon's Blessing (Druid spell - Spell Compendium) -> grants you two additional arms
Beast Claws (Psychic Warrior power manifest at 19 power points- would need feat to get this or use the power Bend Reality (effectively limited wish)) -> gives all your arms 5d6 claw attacks (with six arms)
Bite of the Were___ (Druid spell - Spell Compendium) -> gives you boosts to ability scores and a bite attack
Charge of the Triceratops (Druid spell - Spell Compendium) -> gives you a gore attack
Scorpion Tail (arcane spell - forgot the source) -> gives you a tail attack
Evard's Menacing Tentacles (Druid spell - Unearthed Arcana or PHB II) -> gain two 10' long tentacles that you can attack with
(forgotten 6th level Psychic Warrior power from Expanded Psionics Handbook - would need a feat to get or use Bend Reality (effectively limited wish)) -> gives you an additional 4 tentacle attacks
Haste (PHB) -> with a full attack option, you get one additional attack with a weapon of your choice
*there are several other spells which increase reach for weapons*
*there is an arcane spell (I believe it is in the Spell Compendium) that makes all of your melee attacks be treated as melee touch attacks*
*if you have access to a friendly Artificer from Eberron, get them to use some Natural Weapon Augmentation infusions on all of your attacks*

As a Warforged, you get a slam attack

So if you are following all of this so far, you now get the following on a full-attack:
6 claw attacks
1 gore attack
1 bite attack
1 tail attack
1 slam attack
6 tentacle attacks
1 additional attack with any of the above

If you use this option, two must-have feats are Multiattack and Improved Multiattack, which reduce the attack penalties for secondary natural attacks to +0.

Now, you are probably THE MOST BROKEN caster you can get your hands on, with infinite duration buff spells. You have two full-casting classes, and epic spells. You have 17 melee attacks per round, and with effectively an +infinity to hit and dam with your Warblade - Blood in the Water stance, you are definitely fulfilling your fighter type requirements for the group.

Now lets take a look at Dragon Disciple. (I said I would earlier) The fun ability with this is the breath weapon, but infinite duration fear aura/wings/tail slap/claws aren't bad, and the boosts to your physical stats don't hurt. If you look in the Spell Compendium, you will find several very nice buffs that compliment breath weapons. The problem with most is that they have a duration of 1 round, but since it has a duration, and any "ongoing effect" (anything with a duration, and this counts) lasts effectively forever, these should never drop. So, you can now invest 20 power points per round in a breath weapon (30' cone or 60' line) once per round. The damage would be 20d? (depending upon the type of element you choose). Add on 5 castings of Breath Weapon Admixture (one for each type of element), and now your breath weapon would be dealing 20d? fire, 20d? cold, 20d? electricity, 20d? acid, and 20d? sonic. Having a 100d? breath weapon doesn't hurt. Now throw on the buff spell Blinding Breath, and if the target fails its save against your breath weapon it is now permanently blinded as well. But don't forget the buff spell Dispelling Breath, which says that any creature or item in the area of your spell that fails its save is targeted with a "targeted" Dispel Magic. And all of a sudden your "at will" breath weapon would even put a full grown dragon to shame!

For more brokenness, purchase the Scarab of Invulnerability (Magic Item Compendium, 40,000 gp). This little bugger says that for 1 round (there is your duration, so just read indefinite), once per day you are immune to all damage from any source, to include ability damage.

Other buff spells to consider - anything that would grant immunities. Key spells to look for are ones that grant immunities to Mind-Affecting spells, stunning, dazing, death effects (Death Ward should help here), etc. I would also recommend Construct Essence from Races of Eberron, which grants some very nice abilities. Also look in Faiths of Eberron, there is a spell which covers a construct (read you) in a thin layer of an element giving you some abilities of a golem (I would recommend Iron). This last spell would give you immunity to ALL spells that allow spell resistance.

For the last step of brokenness, look in the Races of Destiny book. You will find a spell (I forgot the name right now), that is the 9th level spell of the Destiny Domain (Cleric). As such, you will need to either get a scroll with this on it, and a very good Use Magic Item check, or you might get someone to cast it on you (I forget if it has a range of touch or personal). This nice spell says that any time you make an attack roll/skill check/saving throw/ability check, you get to roll twice and choose whichever roll you want. The catch is that the spell's duration is only 1 round/level (but not for you).

Now, I have to admit the one glitch to this build...if you have your inifinite loop of power broken, you would lose all your buffs, so it is imperitive that you do what you must to avoid this. One of the ways that the Schism power stops is through Charm and Compulsion spells and effects. But if you gain immunity to Mind-Affecting spells and effects, that should cover that. You are still very vulnerable to most "Dispel" spells, though. To avoid this, I would recommend a 9th level arcane spell (you would probably need to get this as a minor schema - see the Eberron books on how to get them) and a hefty dip in the Use Magic Item skill to use it. I forget the name of it, but I believe it is Mordenkainens' ___. Basically, you get at least 17 little orbs that float around your body that you can use to counter any spell short of deific power that is cast at you. The duration for the spell is not that long (normally), but it does have a duration (read indefinite for you), and since you can use a schema once per day, if you don't use up all 17 of your counter abilities in a day, they would carry over to the next and you could add another 17 then.

Basically, get as many immunities as you can, don't worry about DR since your Scarab of Invulnerability will cover you for dam loss, and ensure you don't lose your loop of inifinte power! Other than that, my only suggestion would be to try not to make the entire rest of the party obsolete! Well, maybe some of them. :smallbiggrin: Enjoy!

2008-05-05, 06:51 AM
Knight gets quite handy at high levels. You could try the slightly weird but actually awesome Knight 30//Monk 1/ Sorcerer (and related PrCs) 29

Take Ascetic Mage and get Charisma to AC. Charisma can also make you functionally immortal with Loyal beyond Death (15+Cha Knight's Challenge uses per day) keeping you alive even on -99999999999999999999 Hit Points.

You're also a Level 29 sorcerer and, to be honest, at Epic levels there's no difference between Sorcerer 29 with Practiced Spellcaster and Sorcerer 30.

2008-05-05, 07:26 AM
wow guys, thanks! So far the other members in the party all have spellcasters of some variations mixed with rogue and everything under the sun. so i was hoping to be frontline - no ranged fighter. I did over hear the DM joke that we may encounter a very large anti-magic zone...


2008-05-05, 07:32 AM
The Knight abilities are all Ex and work in antimagic, and also help with being the frontlin combatant (you can amke all your enemies attack you, rather than your allies).

2008-05-05, 07:40 AM
Epic spells transcend Anti-Magic so none of that matters. Anyways, what you want is completely obscene Touch AC, Damage, Movement, Saves, Spell Resistance and To Hit. Also, preferably the ability to pierce protective spells.

Shadow Pouncer with Warhulk-levels for maxed Strength and Bloodclaw Master to apply max Strength to secondary attacks along with multiple hands could be good. Just some teleportation abilities, few stacked stats to AC and you'll be fine.

2008-05-05, 07:56 AM
Gestalt, yes?

Knight 30// Ghost/Evolved Undead template x26 (I think).

Ghost gives you Charisma to AC. Evolved Undead gives +2 Cha every time you take it. That's +52 Cha right there, and with a bit of kit and a decent starting score you could have it up to about 80 (+35 Charisma modifier). That's AC45, and 50 Knight's Challenges per day.

Of course, you could add some +lots Ghost Touch armour to that (Full Plate wouldn't affect your move speed, so bung that on for AC53 plus enhancement).

Yeah, Evolved Undead is broken at high-level Gestalt...