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View Full Version : Disintegrate appears to have an extra "kick" in OotS-land.



Quorothorn
2008-05-04, 11:17 AM
By RAW, Disintegrate is fairly straightforward: a green-coloured ray attack that tosses enough d6s at a target who fails their FORT save to make Sneak Attack cry itself to sleep (and even on a failed save inflicts some hurt). It is awesome because, not only does it out-damage (if used properly) a spell two levels higher (y hallo thar Polar Ray), but also because nothing can escape its wrath (unless they posses an extremely high touch AC): it even works on undead or walls of force, unlike, say, Destruction.


But accumulated evidence throughout the holy archives of The Giant's masterwork suggests that, within this wide wonderful world, Disintegrate has even further powers than its entry in the Player's Handbook or Systme Reference Document would suggest.

Note here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html), wherein the mighty wizard Vaarsuvius unleashes the mystical power within her/his deceptively small frame to show us a black dragon's skeletal frame, not once, but in fact twice. Note especially how, after the first dose, the dragon appears as confused as the recipient of a Stunning Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html) does. As the dragon was due to be released from the Suggestion spell previously cast by Vaarsuvius on the round Vaarsuvius first unleashed Disintegrate upon it, it should have been free to act forthwith, but it chose merely to remark on the state of wheels attached to a specific class of mass transportation vehicle whilst stars orbited its cranium. Three possibilities therefore present themselves: 1. Vaarsuvius' second casting of Disintegrate took place, essentially, in a surprise round. 2. Vaarsuvius won Initiative. 3. The dragon was actually stunned for a round by Disintegrate; this seems to me to be the most likely scenario, explaining all parameters of the situation at hand. An intriguing possibility even if there remain alternate explanations as framed above.

Later, the famed cleric known only as Redcloak unleashed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html) the same spell (aside from it being provided by a Clerical Domain at one spell level higher than it is for Wizards and Sorcerers) against the commander of the Sapphire Guard, Hinjo. This spell not only resulted in one of the heaviest amounts of visible damage ever displayed on one individual's visage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0481.html), it also actually seemed to knock Hinjo back aboard the ship, even though all his momentum was in a forward leap at the time the ray struck him. This suggests a knock-back effect (perhaps similar to that produced by a spell enhanced by the metamagic feat Explosive Spell: however, this feat not only is outside the bounds of the System Reference Document, and not only is Redcloak not necessarily high-level enough to cast ninth-level spells [as Explosive Spell raises the spell level of the spell it is applied to by two levels], but furthermore it affects only those spells which affect areas in a cone, line, cylinder or burst, not a ray: therefore, no such metamagic could have been applied in this case.) This indicates that Disintegrate may posses a knock-back effect.

And finally, we can look to Start of Darkness for another example. When Redcloak unleashes the Disintegrate spell against his own brother, Right-Eye, it knocks him out of the air and causes him to fall to his death, despite Right-Eye being under the effects of a Potion of Fly at the time. This suggests that Disintegrate may be able to disrupt the energy of an in-place spell in a similar manner to Dispel Magic.

So, it would seem that perhaps the wonderful spell of destruction aptly named Disintegrate might hold secrets beyond its awe-inspiring damage potential, as the case (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfFunny) may be (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool).



P.S. What? It's a different topic than most new threads of late, is it not?

Kurald Galain
2008-05-04, 11:38 AM
Vaarsuvius unleashes the mystical power within her/his deceptively small frame to show us a black dragon's skeletal frame, not once, but in fact twice.
The dragon was still Suggested in the first round, and V won initiative in the second.


it also actually seemed to knock Hinjo back aboard the ship, even though all his momentum was in a forward leap at the time the ray struck him.
Rule of plot, plus the weird rules in D&D surrounding jumps that exceed your movement limit.


And finally, we can look to Start of Darkness for another example.
Per the dramatic Last Speech rule, you can still deliver some final words when, for game purposes, you are already dead. Happens all the time :smallbiggrin:

Quorothorn
2008-05-04, 11:49 AM
The dragon was still Suggested in the first round, and V won initiative in the second.

Ah, but what of the circling stars and the random speech patterns? These have previously been (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html) established (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html) as signs of a stun effect, yes?


Rule of plot, plus the weird rules in D&D surrounding jumps that exceed your movement limit.

There are indeed alternate explanations. I just happen to like "Disintegrate has SPESHUL POWERZ" as an explanation, because I love the spell so.


Per the dramatic Last Speech rule, you can still deliver some final words when, for game purposes, you are already dead. Happens all the time :smallbiggrin:

That explains the talking-when-at-negative-hit-points-due-to-fall thing, but not the fall itself. Well, I mean sure, Rule of Funny/Plot/Awesome can explain anything, but still...

Kurald Galain
2008-05-04, 11:51 AM
That explains the talking-when-at-negative-hit-points-due-to-fall thing, but not the fall itself. Well, I mean sure, Rule of Funny/Plot/Awesome can explain anything, but still...

Sure it does. Flight spell doesn't work on objects.

Quorothorn
2008-05-04, 12:02 PM
Sure it does. Flight spell doesn't work on objects.

Eh? Sorry, I don't think I understand. Do you mean that the Disintegrate killed its target, thereby turning the target from a 'he' to an 'it' and causing the Fly spell to no longer work? In that case, the corpse should've turned to dust post-Death Speech. >_>


P.S. I love your OotS Magic cards. One question, though: what's Rampage (or, for that matter, Bushido, Flash, Vigilance, Provoke, Banding, Lifelink and Shroud)? I'm probably a ways behind any recent (and by recent i mean 'introduced in the last four years') Magic rules (heck, I never learned the rules properly; I just sort of picked them up from the cards themselves).

Oberon
2008-05-04, 01:59 PM
Still not as powerful a 2ed Disintegrate.

Quorothorn
2008-05-04, 02:12 PM
Still not as powerful a 2ed Disintegrate.

That statement intrigues me and I wish to learn more.

Chronos
2008-05-04, 02:23 PM
P.S. I love your OotS Magic cards. One question, though: what's Rampage (or, for that matter, Bushido, Flash, Vigilance, Provoke, Banding, Lifelink and Shroud)?I don't know the others, but Banding is a standard ability from way back in First Edition (which I can't easily describe in a few sentences). It's the ability Benalish Heroes have. And Rampage is from the Legends expansion pack (also way back), I think: The effect is that whenever the rampaging creature is blocked by more than one creature, it gets a bonus to power and toughness (so a creature with Rampage 2 gets +2/+2 for each blocker beyond the first). Oh, and Vigilance is the name for the ability that Sera Angels have: The creature doesn't have to tap to attack. It's an old ability, of course, but I don't know when they gave it a name.

Roderick_BR
2008-05-04, 03:04 PM
Ah, but what of the circling stars and the random speech patterns? These have previously been (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html) established (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html) as signs of a stun effect, yes?
Not really. That one panel could just be another comedic effect. In D&D rules, you can be hit in the head with 200+ points of bludgeoning damage, but if you still have HP left, you doesn't get dizzy. Yet, in real life, and in some stories, a good hit to the head will make you see stars for some seconds. The Giant just wanted to make it look funny that V needed 2 hits to kill the dragon. Just because the Giant uses one visual gag, it doesn't mean it is "established". It could just be an added effect, that can happen in others situations.

Kish
2008-05-04, 03:17 PM
That statement intrigues me and I wish to learn more.
In 2ed, instead of doing a lot of damage, failing your save against Disintegrate meant you died immediately. It didn't matter if your hit points numbered in the millions.

Mind, I'm pretty sure it did nothing on a successful save.

Estelindis
2008-05-04, 08:10 PM
In 2ed, instead of doing a lot of damage, failing your save against Disintegrate meant you died immediately. It didn't matter if your hit points numbered in the millions.

Mind, I'm pretty sure it did nothing on a successful save.
However, Disintegrate was under-utilised even in 2e because it destroyed the opponent's equipment, if I recall correctly.

Renegade Paladin
2008-05-04, 09:08 PM
The dragon was seeing stars because it was reduced to exactly 0 HP.

Mordokai
2008-05-05, 01:34 AM
However, Disintegrate was under-utilised even in 2e because it destroyed the opponent's equipment, if I recall correctly.

That would be correct. Failed save against Disintegrate meant subject and all of his objects were turned to fine dust and no magic could brough the subject back. That's why using Disintegrate was a double bladed sword. I could do great deal of help, but also caused much harm.

Note. I'm building this on computer games, since I never played 2ed as tabletop. Perhaps the spell was different there.