PDA

View Full Version : Newb about to play with evil DM



Lycan 01
2008-05-04, 09:34 PM
Here's the scoop.

I'm a newb. I've never played DnD, but I researched a bit of it, talked to some players, and read OotS (very funny, btw!). I just signed myself up for a game of DnD with my GF's best friend's brother. Apparently, he's a self proclaimed "evil DM," like the type I've been told to avoid. He bends the rules to his advantage, randomly reveals important pieces of info waaaay after they were needed, "forgets" to mention helpful things like Saving Throws, and overall just doesn't play fair. And he's going to be in charge of my first DnD game ever. Yaaaaay...

So, it'll be me, my GF, and her best friend verses a psychotic and megalomaniacle (did I spell that right?) DM. What should we do? Try our best to survive? Let him toy with our Souls and not complain? Or should we do our best to make his DM-ing experience miserable?

Personally, I want to make him miserable. I've heard of the Gazebo Incident, and I intend to see how far his patience can stretch. :D

Anybody got other torture ideas? Or should I just sit back, shut up, and let him have his way with my poor character?

Jayabalard
2008-05-04, 09:38 PM
don't play; seems like the best option to me.

Nohwl
2008-05-04, 09:41 PM
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=587555

find out what splat books are allowed and pick your favorite build out of the usable ones.

i suggest something by LordofProcrastination or Khan the Destroyer.

Dode
2008-05-04, 09:47 PM
don't play; seems like the best option to me.Yeah, this.

Nohwl
2008-05-04, 09:50 PM
how does not playing accomplish the goal of finding out the limits of someones patience?

Lycan 01
2008-05-04, 09:53 PM
I live in the middle of nowhere. He's the only DM I know or have access to. I need to play with him so I can learn how to play, then later on get the game myself so I can host for my GF and our other friends who can't/won't play with us right now for various reasons...

Its a Catch-22. Either play and suffer, or don't ever play at all. Ever.

Nohwl
2008-05-04, 09:57 PM
then ignore that link i gave. that would pretty much destroy the game. i wouldnt be surprised if it got you kicked out of the group either. get someone here to build a character for you or give you advice on what to do. you want it to be slightly stronger than the rest of the party, so find out what they are going to be, write it down, and that will give people an idea of around where your character should be power wise.

Lycan 01
2008-05-04, 10:09 PM
Power, shmower. I know I'm gonna get raped no matter how strong I am. His sister (GF's best friend...) playe with him once. She got all the way to the end of the game he'd set up, and without warning he killed her with some super move his character had been saving up his sleeve all through the game. So no matter how strong or skilled my character is, I know he won't survive the game.

So I intend to make him strive to kill me... :smallbiggrin:

Behold_the_Void
2008-05-04, 10:13 PM
Honestly, don't play. The guy sounds like a jerk, I'm of the school of thought that it's better to not waste your time doing something you won't enjoy than doing it just for the sake of "being in a game."

quiet1mi
2008-05-04, 10:13 PM
do what i did and play a post by post game instead of having a lousy Dm

Lycan 01
2008-05-04, 10:19 PM
Well, I've gotta learn how to play somehow. My logic: If I learn how to play and get an understanding of the basics, then it will have been worth it in the long run. Plus, I want to torture him. My GF has a few ideas on how to do so, too. I dunno if they're possible, but still... they'd be hilarious if implimented.

And I'm going to college this fall, and I figure I'll meet a few other DnD players. And by then, it'll be 4e, and I can learn the new stuff in-depth, while having gotten the basic info from the evil DM dude.

Bob the Urgh
2008-05-04, 10:22 PM
Play, but don't play. show up, talk, build a character, etc. but instead just talk to your girlfriend and her friend, have each battle last about 5-6 hrs. That way, when he does kill your character, it will be meaningless.

Solo
2008-05-04, 10:24 PM
How about instead of you and your GF (and her friend) playing with a power hungry jerk who gets a hard on by screwing people over (cause, you know, there's no way he'll ever actually screw people by virtue of his personality) , we set you three up with a game on these boards?

Dode
2008-05-04, 10:25 PM
Or via Telnet MUSH.

Citizen Joe
2008-05-04, 10:25 PM
Step 1: Make characters that you don't care about. You may as well just roll randomly and take whatever you get. If you spend more than two minutes making your character, then it is too long. Alternatively, ask the DM for all kinds of help during character creation.

Step 2: Throw all care to the wind and get everyone killed.

Step 3: Make up new characters, again making sure that you monopolize the DM's time getting him to essentially 'make' the character for you.

Step 4: Get killed again.

Repeat until the DM figures out that killing off characters is counter productive to telling a good story. The trick is to NOT get attached to your characters.

Lycan 01
2008-05-04, 10:25 PM
Yes, these are the sort of plans I like. Go to learn, but don't actually play to win. I still want to torture him...

Btw, RPing is a major part of DnD, right? Can you play as a character who's got phobias, or other problems? Like Acrophobia? Aquaphobia? Or Necrophilia...? :smallbiggrin:


Edit: Playing on internet is out of question. GF's best friend doesn't web browse much, and if GF's dad saw her on a DnD related site (he doesn't know we're going to play...), he'd freak out and ban her from it.

Nota Biene
2008-05-04, 10:28 PM
Well, you do have an interesting third option here. Wait till 4th edition comes out in june- or play the intro adventure they are releasing early. With a new edition, everyone will be in the same boat, so you can start your own game without any preconceived expectations on anyone's part, everyone will be equally qualified to DM- and all the support from now on will be for 4th anyway. This will allow you to get started in DnD without having to deal with the jerk. It may still help to have someone who's played before, but your gf fills that role, no?

Making an evil construct to destroy the game may be funny for one session, but I'm betting it will get old fast. Try to play for the long term.

Vella_Malachite
2008-05-04, 10:29 PM
Try looking at this thread:

Things I am No Longer Allowed to Do While Gaming. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29508)

Should give you some ideas.

Bob the Urgh
2008-05-04, 10:30 PM
What DnD about roleplaying? Who's been telling you these lies? Go with the third option.

Lycan 01
2008-05-04, 10:33 PM
Hm. How different is 4e from the current one? I figured it would only be a few rule tweaks...


And I've just heard that people give their characters quirks and stuff for flair and humor. And a lot of DnD experiences I've been told of are kinda RP-ish... I dunno, I'm just a poor newb! :smalleek:




Edit: Hm. Texting the best friend right now. Apparently, her bro is strict, too. I said I would do things to get on his nerves, like eat the hearts of my fallen foes in (fake) hopes of regaining health. She said the game (his game, is more like it...) doesn't allow things like that. Ummm... I've heard of people pouring barrels of latern oil into caves then lighting it on fire to clear out all the monsters. Why can't I eat a friggin' heart?!

Kizara
2008-05-04, 10:46 PM
Hm. How different is 4e from the current one? I figured it would only be a few rule tweaks...


And I've just heard that people give their characters quirks and stuff for flair and humor. And a lot of DnD experiences I've been told of are kinda RP-ish... I dunno, I'm just a poor newb! :smalleek:




Edit: Hm. Texting the best friend right now. Apparently, her bro is strict, too. I said I would do things to get on his nerves, like eat the hearts of my fallen foes in (fake) hopes of regaining health. She said the game (his game, is more like it...) doesn't allow things like that. Ummm... I've heard of people pouring barrels of latern oil into caves then lighting it on fire to clear out all the monsters. Why can't I eat a friggin' heart?!

Ever play World of Warcraft or Diablo 2? It's more like that.

And yes, it's massively different then 3.5ed.

Lycan 01
2008-05-04, 10:49 PM
Well, I knew you went through dungeons and killed stuff. But I heard you could talk to NPCs (you voice your character, DM voices NPC) and describe your characters actions and other RP-ish stuff.

So no heart devouring for me? :smallfrown:

Dode
2008-05-04, 10:51 PM
Oh, be sure and bring transparant dice with hard to read numbering, then roll it away from the DM and say you rolled really well because he can't tell. Also, begin all your statements with "Yeah whatever, I-"

Kizara
2008-05-04, 10:54 PM
Well, I knew you went through dungeons and killed stuff. But I heard you could talk to NPCs (you voice your character, DM voices NPC) and describe your characters actions and other RP-ish stuff.

So no heart devouring for me? :smallfrown:

I was describing 4ed's rule set.

As for the game itself, its designed as a cooperative storytelling experience between you and the others at the table. Yes, you talk to other people. Yes, you go into dungeons and kill stuff (generally). As for the amount of time spent on character actions, motivations and RPing that depends on the pacing, tone and general style of the group.

Don't go there expecting to have the epic journey of your character, where you fulfill all his hopes and dreams and such. With a garbage DM, it will likely be crap and you shouldn't get too 'into' the game, as it will bother you alot more when he screws it up for you.

As for eating someone's heart, there's no reason you couldn't do that. Assuming you have the Strength to rip it out and the Fortitude to deal with eating raw meat in such a fashion. No, you don't gain HPs.

Behold_the_Void
2008-05-04, 10:55 PM
Ever play World of Warcraft or Diablo 2? It's more like that.

And yes, it's massively different then 3.5ed.

Damn it, I thought we were past these comparisons.

Bob the Urgh
2008-05-04, 10:59 PM
I was joking about the RPGing thing, if you really want to go ahead with this make your characters name Bob (the something), and dont bother writing in a backstory.

chiasaur11
2008-05-04, 11:00 PM
Pun Pun.

You know you want to.

Solo
2008-05-04, 11:02 PM
Damn it, I thought we were past these comparisons.

Oh, no. It is totally like some sort of MMORPG. We can trust Kizara's evaluation because he has seen the real 4th edition core material extensively.

At least I hope he has, for to make that kind of declaration without any supporting evidence would be highly presumptuous, to say the least.

Kizara
2008-05-04, 11:02 PM
Damn it, I thought we were past these comparisons.

The skill and talent tree systems are similar to those presented in Diablo 2.

The class structure and game design is similar to World of Warcraft.

Whether you take these comparisons as being derogitory is your own perogitive.

Edit: As for Solo's 'post', I have seen the skill and talent tree system (there was a thread on that recently).

I have seen both the previews of the class structure and an interview with the designer of Eberron concerning its roots in WoW in regards to game design.

Finally, I'm not trying to derail this thread, I was trying to explain to this 'newbie' in a very concise way how 4ed is different then 3.5ed to the best of my ability. I don't have to have an encyclopedic knowledge of 4ed to do this.

Solo
2008-05-04, 11:05 PM
The skill and talent tree systems are similar to those presented in Diablo 2.

The class structure and game design is similar to World of Warcraft.

Whether you take these comparisons as being derogitory is your own perogitive.

Don't forget, 4th edition has elves, dwarves, wizards, demons, and rogues, all of which can be found in WoW.

Clearly, 4th edition is no better than a MMORPG. Quests will be given by NPCs with giant yellow exclamation marks over their heads, bosses will respawn again and again, leading to loot runs, and the most famous character in the game will be LEEEEEEEROY JENKINS!

Kizara
2008-05-04, 11:06 PM
Don't forget, 4th edition has elves, dwarves, wizards, demons, and rogues, all of which can be found in WoW.

Clearly, 4th edition is no better than a MMORPG. Quests will be given by NPCs with giant yellow exclamation marks over their heads, bosses will respawn again and again, leading to loot runs, and the most famous character in the game will be LEEEEEEEROY JENKINS!

These comments on gameplay expectations are purely yours, I was comparing the class design and leveling progressions.

Don't strawman me.

Mewtarthio
2008-05-04, 11:14 PM
Well, I knew you went through dungeons and killed stuff. But I heard you could talk to NPCs (you voice your character, DM voices NPC) and describe your characters actions and other RP-ish stuff.

You normally do. However, such a tyrranical DM as the one you've described will make all such interactions pointless. Odds are, the NPCs will do exactly what he wants them to do from the start, except they might arbitrarily decide to kill you (which you won't be able to prevent in any way).

I second the motion of waiting until 4e. There are two reasons to prefer an experienced DM over an inexperienced one: Knowledge of the rules (which will become moot once 4e rewrites them all) and skill at describing the world and how it reacts to the PCs (which he clearly lacks anyway). Besides, 4e is supposed to be more "newbie-friendly" anyway, from what I've heard.

NB I believe the current realease date for 4e is June 6.

Tequila Sunrise
2008-05-04, 11:34 PM
I'm a newb. I've never played DnD, but I researched a bit of it, talked to some players, and read OotS (very funny, btw!). I just signed myself up for a game of DnD with my GF's best friend's brother. Apparently, he's a self proclaimed "evil DM," like the type I've been told to avoid. He bends the rules to his advantage, randomly reveals important pieces of info waaaay after they were needed, "forgets" to mention helpful things like Saving Throws, and overall just doesn't play fair. And he's going to be in charge of my first DnD game ever. Yaaaaay...
If he's got players willing to come back and play in his game, the guy can't be that evil a DM. Or to put it differently, it sounds like he's evil but in a fun way. So your best option is to just have fun. Start the game with the assumption that you and the other players will all die, just like real life. And as we know from real life, the fun part isn't the game's ending, it's all the insanity that happens on the way to the end.

Don't be THAT PLAYER who makes the DM miserable just because you suspect he's a bad DM, because in the end that just makes you a bad player. As a final word to the wise: I'm sure this guy does have his weird quirks as a DM (they all do), so the best thing you can do is to learn from him what you can so that when you become the DM you can subject your players to your weird quirks. :smallwink:

TS

Reinboom
2008-05-04, 11:49 PM
Hm. How different is 4e from the current one? I figured it would only be a few rule tweaks...

Ever play World of Warcraft or Diablo 2? It's more like that.

And yes, it's massively different then 3.5ed.


These comments on gameplay expectations are purely yours, I was comparing the class design and leveling progressions.

Don't strawman me.

Define things better then. Don't just say "the game is going to be more like WoW" (which you did say, if someone asks how the game will be different and you give him an answer, then you are answering how the game will be different, he did not ask how the class system would be different), say "the class system will be more like WoW". There is a very hefty difference there and Solo's post was following what was written.

Solo did not set up a straw man here, since there was no misrepresentation on his part other than the information -you- neglected to define better. In a board of nerds, definitions are key.


To Lycan 01:
Yes, you can eat a heart. I don't see any reason why not.
No, you will not gain HP from it. That doesn't make much sense. At least, in the D&D ruleset/general fluff it doesn't... without a supporting template or class.
As a DM, if a player did "I tried to eat a heart to regain health!".. I would probably respond with "Are you sure?" then.. "You watch as your fellow adventurer consumes the heart of your recently down fellow with a view of a hungry attempt of self preservation similar to that of either a lunatic's or a vampire's..."

Or make them roll a fort save, since excess blood in the stomach if the heart is still holding (depends on how much time they are taking to eat it) would make you sick.

Kizara
2008-05-05, 12:01 AM
Define things better then. Don't just say "the game is going to be more like WoW" (which you did say, if someone asks how the game will be different and you give him an answer, then you are answering how the game will be different, he did not ask how the class system would be different), say "the class system will be more like WoW". There is a very hefty difference there and Solo's post was following what was written.

Solo did not set up a straw man here, since there was no misrepresentation on his part other than the information -you- neglected to define better. In a board of nerds, definitions are key.



Sweetrein, the post Solo qouted when he said the WoW stuff that I quoted saying he's strawmaning me was this:

"Originally Posted by Kizara
The skill and talent tree systems are similar to those presented in Diablo 2.

The class structure and game design is similar to World of Warcraft.

Whether you take these comparisons as being derogitory is your own perogitive. "

Seriously, how could I be more clear or literal? He wasn't responding to my first post, he was responding to THAT ONE.

rockdeworld
2008-05-05, 12:11 AM
*Ahem* Back ON track...

I can't say much that hasn't been said already, but consider not trying to torture your DM. It won't help, and will probably make the game less fun, not more (i.e. when you piss off an angry person, people are going to get hurt). And it really does make you a bad player besides.

Miles Invictus
2008-05-05, 02:06 AM
Join the game in good faith. Worst case scenario, you leave in a few weeks with a bit more knowledge and the confidence that you can do better. Best case scenario, he's evil in a fun way.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-05-05, 04:40 AM
As the two above me. As insurance, carry a ridiculous quantity of explosives with you at all times, and just start blowing stuff up.

That normally helps.

shadow_archmagi
2008-05-05, 05:35 AM
Join the game in good faith. Worst case scenario, you leave in a few weeks with a bit more knowledge and the confidence that you can do better. Best case scenario, he's evil in a fun way.

Be a saint. Give him maybe three sessions as a saint. Be kind, polite, help other characters out, be as logical as possible but give in to the demands of others when it seems like a good idea.

Then if he's still evil kick him in the crotch and never go back.

Pronounceable
2008-05-05, 06:18 AM
Don't play. Really. The guy you described is not an "evil DM". He's not so bad that he's good, he's so bad that he's terrible.


Well, I've gotta learn how to play somehow. My logic: If I learn how to play and get an understanding of the basics, then it will have been worth it in the long run.

In such a game, you won't learn to roleplay. You'll learn to be a munchkin, or a rules lawyer, or a rollplayer. You may even become a combination of those. First time of everything is important, it shapes your future attitude to it.

Read some PbP threads, I'm sure there are several good ones around here. Probably that'd be more educational than playing under a jerk.

...
And DnDs of all incarnations are like Diablo and WoW. There are locations filled with all manner of creatures. You go there, kill them and take their stuff. There's more to DnD, but the foundation is the same.

Jayabalard
2008-05-05, 06:23 AM
how does not playing accomplish the goal of finding out the limits of someones patience?it reduces the total asshatness in the world.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-05, 06:30 AM
Back on topic:

Lycan, you REALLY must play on PbP. If the parents are so against D&D, just rebel and play anyway. Or show them the chick tract. Or something like that that shows them D&D is okay. It's a much better alternative than playing with a sadist.

Muyten
2008-05-05, 06:49 AM
I still don't get posts like this which asks how best to annoy DMs or players.
The answer in my opinion is always don't.
Either go to the game and play and perhaps even learn or don't go to the game. I have no idea why anyone would go to a roleplaying session (or any even at all) with the specific intent of annoying someone thereby ruining the session.

This guy may (sounds like it) be a bad DM in which case you won't learn much by going to his session anyway. Either learn on these boards or just try playing yourself..even with no experience you should be able to learn more than from playing with a horrible DM.(It sounds like you already know what not to do).

Lycan 01
2008-05-05, 07:00 AM
Meh. I'll take the 4th option: All of the above.

I'll go play a few rounds, so I can learn the basics, like character creation and all the dice rolling jargon.

Then, I'll start playing PbP games. I already RP on The Official Elder Scrolls Forum, so being in character is not a problem. (Heck, I once dove out of a guard tower to escape a vampire, and instead of landing in the lake like the Host suggested me to, I landed on a zombie, killing it and breaking my legs in the process, yet surviving. So, as stated, RPing and being in character is no problem for me. :smallsmile:) I'll figure out all the online dice and character creation stuff... and then hopefully I'll be able to enjoy some real DnD fun.

Then when 4e comes out, I'll head over to my local Hobbytown and buy me a copy of it. :) I'll learn the rules by heart, play a few games with GF and a few friends, and then go off to college with the capability of being at least somewhat decent at DnD, both online and in person. :smallbiggrin:

Tsotha-lanti
2008-05-05, 08:18 AM
I live in the middle of nowhere. He's the only DM I know or have access to. I need to play with him so I can learn how to play, then later on get the game myself so I can host for my GF and our other friends who can't/won't play with us right now for various reasons...

Does not follow.

I've bought all my RPGs, learned them, taught them to others (or, in many cases, started playing before anyone knew the rules and learned as we went along; "Okay, so you're casting a spell. Let's see how that goes..."). I've never had anyone else introduce me to any system, but so far I've learned something like 10-20 of them.

Just get the game, create a character or three (that's the only part you really need to know beforehand), read over the basic combat rules (takes, what, an hour at the most?), get your friends together, and start playing.

You don't need to play under someone else, especially a jerk, to learn a game. In fact, it sounds pretty counter-productive; you're sure as hell not going to enjoy the game, and it sounds like you wouldn't even learn the actual rules if the DM is enough of an ass to ignore them in order to screw the players over.

bosssmiley
2008-05-05, 08:29 AM
Back on topic:

Lycan, you REALLY must play on PbP. If the parents are so against D&D, just rebel and play anyway. Or show them the chick tract. Or something like that that shows them D&D is okay. It's a much better alternative than playing with a sadist.

The Escapist (http://www.theescapist.com/) - explaining our hobby to the Mundanes. Especially notable for the Facts and Fictions about RPGs (http://www.theescapist.com/facts-and-fictions-about-RPGs.pdf) PDF.

As for the munchkin GM Lycan 01 was having trouble with. Avoid this berk! I'll repeat that: Avoid. This. Berk! The only reason to join a game such as the one you describe would be to pick up notes on "how not to GM".

D&D as written isn't so complex that you can't learn the basics yourself. Most of the rules are only used is specific situations (does anyone else here recall the last time they used the exposure or heat exhaustion sections of the environment rules?)

Why not join a 'new to the game' PbP on these boards to get your feet wet. They're a friendly bunch.

AKA_Bait
2008-05-05, 08:58 AM
How about instead of you and your GF (and her friend) playing with a power hungry jerk who gets a hard on by screwing people over (cause, you know, there's no way he'll ever actually screw people by virtue of his personality) , we set you three up with a game on these boards?

Wait... reasonable advice... from Solo... OP you really ought to take advantage of this. There is no murdering kittens or anything involved.

Also, I've been toyinh with the idea of trying my hand at DMing a PbP, if only so I can contribute something useful about it to the guide. So, if you want to go this road, I'd happily DM.


Edit: Playing on internet is out of question. GF's best friend doesn't web browse much, and if GF's dad saw her on a DnD related site (he doesn't know we're going to play...), he'd freak out and ban her from it.

Oh. Well. Nevermind then. I'm curious though, the GFs Male Parental Unit will freak out and ban her from using the computer if she plays D&D over the internet but is cool with it in real life? Or is this going to be a supersecret session with an evil DM?



If you really must play with this, at least as described, waste of space then I suggest going with some of the above suggestions. Particularly, the bit about having the session be more about hanging out with your GF than trying to 'win' the game. With a DM like that, it seems unlikley you are going to have much fun that is directly D&D generated, so make up for it with the normal social interactions which brought you cute kids together (whatever those might happen to be).

Solo
2008-05-05, 11:11 AM
Wait... reasonable advice... from Solo... OP you really ought to take advantage of this. There is no murdering kittens or anything involved.

Getting three people to play the devil's game isn't bad enough for you?

You sick b@stard.


Edit: Playing on internet is out of question. GF's best friend doesn't web browse much, and if GF's dad saw her on a DnD related site (he doesn't know we're going to play...), he'd freak out and ban her from it.
Have her post at your house. Side benefits include her coming over more often.

And I'd work on the dad. Ask him why he freaks out over DnD and try to combat his misinformed opinion with fact. Perhaps show him the PHB or something.

That or stab him repeatedly with a sharp object and bury the body, thus making it easier to claim his daughter and other property as your own.

Works best in barbarian societies though, for the record.

Burley
2008-05-05, 11:20 AM
Here's a little advice from somebody who had the same situation with his first DM:
My first DM also called himself an "Evil DM". I learned, literally, nothing correct from him. He and his girlfriend played in another game, and his girlfriend knew how things were supposed to go, so, she helped me make my character. But, when he got behind the DM screen, the world was topsy-turvy. Every single session began with: "I looked up the rules for the stuff I threw at you last week, and I played it wrong." Apparently, tall grass makes you invisible...but not if it benefits the player. Also, Kobolds (without Class levels) automatically have 2d6 sneak attack. He TPK'd us on our first session (three 1st level characters) with two kobolds with javelins. The next session, (same characters) he TPK'd us with one kobold with a Firball that did enough damage to drop us all, even after we ALL made our Reflex save.
I DM a campaign now, and I'm learning even more things that he did wrong.

So, my advice: If your DM doesn't run a game correctly, you're not going to learn how to play correctly. You should never, ever let yourself be roped into this kind of situation. Ever. Even if you live in the middle of Nowhere, I'm sure Somewhere isn't too far away. I'd bet that Somewhere has a gaming store, along with people who would be willing to run a game for you. Heck, sometimes I go to gaming stores just to talk to other people about rules and stuff. I'm sure somebody would teach you the things you need to know to run your own.