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View Full Version : A few questions about Timestop and Familiars



Frosty
2008-05-04, 09:55 PM
1) By RAW, you can share any spell, even a Personal Range spell, with your familiar. Does that mean that if your familiar is within 5 feet of you when you cast something such as Timestop, your familiar will be able to act alongside with you, and also receive any buffs you give it, within the duration of Timestop?

2) If you have a sculpted Anti-magic field around you and you cast Timestop, does the AMF move around with you during Timestop?

3) On a related note, what forms do you usually polymorph your familiar into? Someting that can help it deliver touch spells better? Or something that can smack things around really well? What would you guys suggest? Red/Gold Dragon?

4) If you polymorph your familiar into something that has Natural Armor, does it still gain the Natural Armor adjustment benefit that it normally gets for being a familiar?

5) How many Wands can a bird-type familiar hold at a time? One in each talon?

Kizara
2008-05-04, 10:00 PM
As for #2, it would behave like it would when you are not under the effect of time stop. Don't see why it would suddenly gain the ability to move with you just because you've gained the ability to move really fast.

Frosty
2008-05-04, 10:08 PM
As for #2, it would behave like it would when you are not under the effect of time stop. Don't see why it would suddenly gain the ability to move with you just because you've gained the ability to move really fast.

Well see, the AMF is an emanation/aura type effect CENTERED around you. It normally moves with you as youmove around.

Kizara
2008-05-04, 10:10 PM
Well see, the AMF is an emanation/aura type effect CENTERED around you. It normally moves with you as youmove around.

True enough, so why would being time stopped change this?

Nebo_
2008-05-04, 10:11 PM
Well see, the AMF is an emanation/aura type effect CENTERED around you. It normally moves with you as youmove around.

Not when you sculpt it. It loses that ability when you changed if from an emanation.


1) By RAW, you can share any spell, even a Personal Range spell, with your familiar. Does that mean that if your familiar is within 5 feet of you when you cast something such as Timestop, your familiar will be able to act alongside with you, and also receive any buffs you give it, within the duration of Timestop?

That's what the rules say. Why is there any question about that?


4) If you polymorph your familiar into something that has Natural Armor, does it still gain the Natural Armor adjustment benefit that it normally gets for being a familiar?

I don't think so.


5) How many Wands can a bird-type familiar hold at a time? One in each talon?

Ask your DM

Cuddly
2008-05-04, 10:12 PM
I think AMF would move with you, but fail to affect anything. Not that it would matter, since creatures are unaffectable by your spells when you're timestopped anyway.

As for the familiar; absolutely. Timestop specifies that you can't attack or target creatures while under its effects. Can you imagine the difficulty of moving around with a weasel in your trousers while under the effects of timestop?

[edit]
Nevermind, a sculpted AMF doesn't move with you anyway.

Frosty
2008-05-04, 10:47 PM
Are you sure? I'm not talking about metamagic. I'm talking about the Archmage ability.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-05-04, 10:54 PM
If you are casting Shapechange, share it with your familiar and have it use all the Su abilities that are awesome, like Dragon Breaths.

Before that, I like to use the PHB II polymorph subschool spells, that way it gets BAB for it's HD and can be a very strong melee combatant. I don't usually Polymorph my Familiar at all using the actual Polymorph spell.

Cuddly
2008-05-04, 10:55 PM
Hm, you can keep the spell as emanation with the archmage's shaping. I say it goes with you. There's nothing in the description to suggest that the ranges of spells change with a shaped spell.

Frosty
2008-05-04, 10:58 PM
Before that, I like to use the PHB II polymorph subschool spells, that way it gets BAB for it's HD and can be a very strong melee combatant. I don't usually Polymorph my Familiar at all using the actual Polymorph spell.

Not high enough level for shapechange. Can you suggest which Polymorph subschool spell for a level 15 sorcerer? I see a level 4 and a level 9 "shape" spell in PHB. One for troll, one for dragon.

Reinboom
2008-05-04, 11:04 PM
Hmm..
I wonder what would occur if you did an archmage shaped AMF, then shared a time stop with your familiar, then had your familiar move out to a square of the AMF for one of the rounds time stop.

Which duration would it rely on for the time stop? Since, in one reading of it, the familiar's time stop would last for a round longer then, the round it was out.

Fizban
2008-05-05, 12:32 AM
Not high enough level for shapechange. Can you suggest which Polymorph subschool spell for a level 15 sorcerer? I see a level 4 and a level 9 "shape" spell in PHB. One for troll, one for dragon.

Dragon Magic has more dragonshapes: least for a pseudodragon at 3rd, and lesser for a young red at 6th. It also has 7th and 8th level spells for aspects of Bahamut and Tiamat, respectively.

Complete Mage has Dreaded Form of the Eye Tyrant and [Form of Unyielding Death Unyielding Form of Inevitable Death for Beholder and Marut forms, both at 8th level, and allowing one use of each of their at will powers.

Of course all polymorph subschool spells replace your statblock (except for hp) with the form taken, and add some temporary hp to your base, and none of them (at least not yet printed) grant you spellcasting (the aforementioned Beholder and Marut forms allow limited use of far lower level spell like abilities, much as a summon monster spell for a Djinni or Avoral do).

Frosty
2008-05-05, 12:54 AM
Hmm..
I wonder what would occur if you did an archmage shaped AMF, then shared a time stop with your familiar, then had your familiar move out to a square of the AMF for one of the rounds time stop.

Which duration would it rely on for the time stop? Since, in one reading of it, the familiar's time stop would last for a round longer then, the round it was out.

What I find more funny is to cast an AMF on my familiar and have it go screw with enemy casters.

Reinboom
2008-05-05, 01:05 AM
What I find more funny is to cast an AMF on my familiar and have it go screw with enemy casters.

Talking Raven familiar with a shaped antimagic field on it..

Enemy Spellcaster: "To you I beg please leave for spells I do so wish to soon explore!"
Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!"

Frosty
2008-05-05, 01:08 AM
Actually, the Raven can't talk while inside an AMF. Its speech is (Su). It can, however, still Speak with Master (Ex) as long as the master is 5th level or higher.

Cuddly
2008-05-05, 01:08 AM
What good would that do? If the familiar moves more than 5 feet away from you, the AMF stops. AMF doesn't have a range of "you", so you have to share spell it with your familiar.

Frosty
2008-05-05, 01:09 AM
What good would that do? If the familiar moves more than 5 feet away from you, the AMF stops. AMF doesn't have a range of "you", so you have to share spell it with your familiar.

Depends on how the GM interprets this. For all intents and purposes, YOU are the target when you cast AMF. The emanation/aura is always centered on you. So I can see some DMs allowing AMFs to be cats on a familiar.

Reinboom
2008-05-05, 01:15 AM
Actually, the Raven can't talk while inside an AMF. Its speech is (Su). It can, however, still Speak with Master (Ex) as long as the master is 5th level or higher.

Then let it be shaped, but I want my nevermore raven now damnit!

Also, I never realized it was Su... I think I mentally blocked that til now.

Frosty
2008-05-05, 01:26 AM
I will let it be shaped...once I actually take a level in Archmage. It'll be a little while from now.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-05, 06:53 AM
5) How many Wands can a bird-type familiar hold at a time? One in each talon?

Depends on the size of the bird. Small birds, one. Big birds, more. But did you mean carry the wands or actually use them?

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-05-05, 07:05 AM
1) Cuddly, you just cast AMF on your familiar because you can cast Personal spells on him. Then it is centered on him, and he can fly around messing with enemy spellcasters.

2) Frosty, depends on your build, Make sure you look in the Spell Compendium, Dragon Magic, Complete Mage, and the PHB II.

Combat: Aspect of Tiamat is pretty decent, so is Maruat. The level 6 Dragon spell is also pretty good, especially combined with buffs like shared wraithstrike or bloodwind to hit casters with the full attack.

My personal favorite as a Metaed Orb machine is the Beholder form. Have your familiar put them in the cone, then Orb them. It's like a swift action disjunction that doesn't destroy loot, just neutralize it. The form is still good even if you aren't an Orb master, since you can have him target enemies that can't fly naturally, or disable spellcasters.

Frosty
2008-05-05, 09:36 AM
Unfortunately the DM does not have Dragon Magic :( But the Beholder option is in Complete Mage you sa? I'll have to go check it out. But yeah, right now, I'm mostly going for the anti-magic raven screwing with enemy casters. I don't haveenough money to upgrade my runestaves with all of these polymoprhing antics right now.

It's not a grapple check to have my raven LAND on the shoulder of an enemy right? What's the check for the enemy to get it off?

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-05-05, 01:14 PM
Unfortunately the DM does not have Dragon Magic :( But the Beholder option is in Complete Mage you sa? I'll have to go check it out. But yeah, right now, I'm mostly going for the anti-magic raven screwing with enemy casters. I don't haveenough money to upgrade my runestaves with all of these polymoprhing antics right now.

It's not a grapple check to have my raven LAND on the shoulder of an enemy right? What's the check for the enemy to get it off?

You're better off not having it land on them, but ready it's action to follow them (forcing them to use their standard action to get out as well drastically reducing their casting potential) since landing on them would require provoking an AoO.

(I'm mostly thinking of the Monster casters here.)

Frosty
2008-05-05, 07:54 PM
I'm a Beguiler. My Familiar has good Tumble ranks. But yes, I am definitely going to have it ready an action.

Speaking of which. If, om Round N, I cast a touch spell and designate my familiar as the toucher so it can touch the enemy next turn (enemy too far away to touch this turn), can I give it enough instructions so it can dkeep on carrying out its orders if I am not able to give it an order for a round?

For example, let's say during an enemy turn on Round N, an enemy was going to uber-charge me to death or something, and I cast Celerity and Wall of Force or Solid Fog or something. Great. I live. I'm dazed on Round N+1. Is my familiar smart enough to carry out the touch attack?

Fun things to do with a familiar: Cast Glibness on the familiar and then Polymorph on it or something. Turn it into a human and then turn yourself into a small animal following the human around. With your ranks in Bluff and Glibness, everyone will believe YOU are the familiar.

tyckspoon
2008-05-05, 07:59 PM
For example, let's say during an enemy turn on Round N, an enemy was going to uber-charge me to death or something, and I cast Celerity and Wall of Force or Solid Fog or something. Great. I live. I'm dazed on Round N+1. Is my familiar smart enough to carry out the touch attack?

It *starts* at low humanoid Int. By the time you can drop a Celerity it's somewhere between human average and high Intelligence. What possible reason would there be for it to *not* be capable of following instructions? Familiars even get Speak With Master at Int 8 which would allow you to carry out such a plan even if you didn't get a raven.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-05-05, 08:58 PM
Your Familiar is smarter then the party Barbarian. Is your Barbarian smart enough to keep attacking enemies when you are dazed?

Cuddly
2008-05-05, 09:13 PM
1) Cuddly, you just cast AMF on your familiar because you can cast Personal spells on him. Then it is centered on him, and he can fly around messing with enemy spellcasters.

Where in the AMF description does it say it's a personal spell? Its range is 10 feet, not personal.

Frosty
2008-05-05, 10:12 PM
Your Familiar is smarter then the party Barbarian. Is your Barbarian smart enough to keep attacking enemies when you are dazed?

One of my previous DMs has ruled that my familiar is not smart enough to use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds on me while I am bleeding to death, even though it has an Int of 10. >.<

tyckspoon
2008-05-05, 10:16 PM
One of my previous DMs has ruled that my familiar is not smart enough to use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds on me while I am bleeding to death, even though it has an Int of 10. >.<

Your previous DM was stupid. Don't be stupid.

Collin152
2008-05-05, 10:16 PM
Fun things to do with a familiar: Cast Glibness on the familiar and then Polymorph on it or something. Turn it into a human and then turn yourself into a small animal following the human around. With your ranks in Bluff and Glibness, everyone will believe YOU are the familiar.


Gah...
Buh...
Hmm...
I'm stealing this.
Oh how I am stealing this.

Frosty
2008-05-05, 10:19 PM
Your Raven familiar knows how to talk. And it now has like +40 Bluff and your ranks in Diplomacy. Have it negotiate peace treaties or something. Or, go (subtly) rob ye olde magik shoppe. Nobody will know it's you. Make sure you didn't polymorph your familiar into looking like yourself.

Cuddly
2008-05-05, 10:32 PM
Contact other plane.
Oops.

Never, ever mess with a vendor.

Frosty
2008-05-05, 10:38 PM
Does Mindblank protect against that?

Hmm, I wonder if your familiar will remain your familiar if you Polymorph Any Object it into a humanoid.

Cuddly
2008-05-05, 10:42 PM
Does Mindblank protect against that?

Only if your DM is a moron.