[4e] The Tiefling

[Abardam]

heirs of a shattered empire who live in the shadows and do not fear the dark (http://www.flickr.com/photos/benimoto/2308404240/sizes/o/)

[Shademan]

i almost started to cry when i saw that pic of the [4e] cover (wethever it was dake of not) but this pushed me over the top.
*sob*
is D&D heading the direction of oh so many other fantasy things? we're females wear sexy armour instead of USEFULL armour!?
sorry for my rant but... *sniff*

[tyckspoon]

.. Just headed in that direction? D00d. D&D has *been* there since the first printing to include art.

[Mewtarthio]

heirs of a shattered empire who live in the shadows and do not fear the dark (http://www.flickr.com/photos/benimoto/2308404240/sizes/o/)

...because they know they can always squeeze HuggaBear(tm), and the Nite Lite will magically turn on.

[Reel On, Love]

i almost started to cry when i saw that pic of the [4e] cover (wethever it was dake of not) but this pushed me over the top.
*sob*
is D&D heading the direction of oh so many other fantasy things? we're females wear sexy armour instead of USEFULL armour!?
sorry for my rant but... *sniff*

Uh, what D&D have you been playing? Check your books; the females almost inevitably have sexy-over-useful armor.

Edit: "Modern Names: ... Sorrow, Torment, Weary."
Tieflings? More like EMOLINGS, amirite!

[tyckspoon]

Edit: "Modern Names: ... Sorrow, Torment, Weary."
Tieflings? More like EMOLINGS, amirite!

"Gladness, Hope, Ideal"
More like.. uh.. Happy.. Sunny..lings!
.. I suck at this.

I think it's more interesting that traditional Tiefling names are Greek. Also "small spikes and buckles".. which means every bit of Tiefling art will invariably look like a Warhammer Chaos worshiper.

[Sholos]

Ick. I don't like the look of the page. It doesn't have that high-fantasy feel to it. Then there's the speed. 6 squares. I can imagine the conversations now.

1st Guy: Hey, how fast can you run?

2nd GUy: Oh, about 48 squares in 6 seconds.


*Sigh*

What was wrong with 30'?

[Rutee]

"Gladness, Hope, Ideal"
More like.. uh.. Happy.. Sunny..lings!
.. I suck at this.
Hah! Sacred Tome? More like... Sucky.. Dumb.. thing!

I have no excuse, aside from the fact that quoting Zetta is always appropriate


I think it's more interesting that traditional Tiefling names are Greek. Also "small spikes and buckles".. which means every bit of Tiefling art will invariably look like a Warhammer Chaos worshiper.

MOAR GRIMDARK

[Terraoblivion]

Can you elaborate on what makes it lack a high fantasy look, Sholos? It looks like a clean, easy lay-out and i cannot see the lack of high fantasy in the art. Unless it is the man not looking like he has been eating steroids since he was twelve like most 80s high fantasy art shows.

[Reel On, Love]

What was wrong with 30'?

The fact that you always converted it to squares, or counted it out in the same number of five-foot increments as you'll count squares, anyway.

[The Necroswanso]

Uh, what D&D have you been playing? Check your books; the females almost inevitably have sexy-over-useful armor.

Edit: "Modern Names: ... Sorrow, Torment, Weary."
Tieflings? More like EMOLINGS, amirite!

Don't forget, "Male Names: Barakas"
I'm not sure wether they're shooting for Mortal Kombat or Mr.T with that.

I seriously hope this isn't any indication of how the entire game will look.
It had no high fantasy look to it, and fealt more like something out of "GURPS, Emo wrath".

[Mewtarthio]

What was wrong with 30'?

For the love of Vecna, people, we've known about this for months.

...Hey, I completely overlooked the "Modern Names" section. Sweet Asmodeus, that's hilarious!

"Hey, Damakos!"
"That name means nothing to me. Damakos is dead now. He was a slave to society and to my--I mean, his oppresive parents who never understood him. I am now known as Despair!"
"Despair? That's the most ridiculous name I've ever heard."
"Well, it's not much better than Random!"
"Don't give me that! Random Frequentflyer Dent really is my real name, I swear!"

EDIT: "Tieflings favor dark colors and reds, leathers and glossy furs, small spikes and buckles." This stuff defies parody! :smalltongue: Is this for real?

[Reel On, Love]

"Well, it's not much better than Random!"


Annnnd a Prince of Amber steps through Shadow, crushes Mr. Despair's skull, and leaves.

[Rutee]

The Tieflings look as High Fantasy as the 3.5 core characters.

More then some, honestly. What exactly is high fantasy to you people, that the Tieflings don't have it?




EDIT: "Tieflings favor dark colors and reds, leathers and glossy furs, small spikes and buckles." This stuff defies parody! Is this for real?
I was hoping someone else would that they're Punk Rockers :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

The Tieflings look as High Fantasy as the 3.5 core characters.

More then some, honestly. What exactly is high fantasy to you people, that the Tieflings don't have it?


Strong glowy backlighting? Long flowing shampoo commercial hair with pretty highlights? *shrug*

I can't tell if the Tiefling appearances and 'modern names' section are deliberate in-jokes aimed at the 'Oh noez devil emo drow!!' people or if they're just the chosen inheritors of 3rd Edition's fetish/punk aesthetic.

[Xefas]

Edit: "Modern Names: ... Sorrow, Torment, Weary."
Tieflings? More like EMOLINGS, amirite!

My table calls them "Wristlings", and I guarantee that my campaign's main adventuring hub will have a store called "Blazing Topic", run by them.

"Hi, my name is Sorrow Ravenblood. Could I interest you in a nonconformist poetry skill challenge?"

[Starsinger]

I was hoping someone else would that they're Punk Rockers :smallbiggrin:

Like Nikki? http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Starsinger17/nikki.jpg

[The Necroswanso]

High fantasy is basically an embodiment of steroid abuse. Think of Regdar from the PHB. That guy is totally ripped, has old, rather tattered looking armor. Looks relatively weathered. In it's essence high fantasy is more a representation of the 80's fantasy. Gritty, risque and down right almost pronographic. Rather than having scantily clad women as a gimmick, see WoW, they were there simply to compliment the gentlemen with muscles so ridonkulous they can't touch their faces. Women were less gimicky, and more, "hey, we're NOT gay" statements. Also highly more objectified.
Now, these tieflings look, practically gothic really, something a bit closer to what you'd see at an emo version of a medevil recreation group. Sans the obese women wearing far too little clothes. Well, they'd be there too. I can see alot of people playing these tieflings, I can also see alot of those people being kicked out of the group for getting too much or their blood on the carpet.

"Hey, who are you?"
"My name's Despair. Who are you?"
"I'm Sorrow. My name is far more saddening than yours. Who's that guy?"
"Me? I'm Gluttony. This is my friend Lust. And that's Rambo."
-When D&D gets out of hand.

[Rutee]

Like Nikki? http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Starsinger17/nikki.jpg

DAMN STRAIGHT. :smallbiggrin:


High fantasy is basically an embodiment of steroid abuse
1: No
2: That crap can screw off.

[tyckspoon]

My table calls them "Wristlings", and I guarantee that my campaign's main adventuring hub will have a store called "Blazing Topic", run by them.

"Hi, my name is Sorrow Ravenblood. Could I interest you in a nonconformist poetry skill challenge?"

A store frequented by teens of the other races, I hope. Possibly wearing red-tinged makeup. And prosthetic chin-fringes and/or horns.


In it's essence high fantasy is more a representation of the 80's fantasy. Gritty, risque and down right almost pronographic.

I think you have your terms mixed. That sounds much more like swords-and-sorcery; Conan-style stuff, featuring (usually) a loincloth-wearing barbarian type fleeing from some Things What Weren't Meant To Be and accompanied by a voluptuous woman who may or may not be wearing more than the barbarian. High Fantasy deals more with Knights and Damsels; the iconic High Fantasy image is more in the style of an armored man bravely riding out against a dragon, an ogre, or a gazebo.

[The Necroswanso]

DAMN STRAIGHT. :smallbiggrin:


1: No
2: That crap can screw off.

The truth is ugly. It's okay to reject it. We all fear it some times.

[Cuddly]

Wow. That's hilarious.

[Kioran]

Tiefling genocide, yay!

Well, I now have a goal for all my human characters if I ever suffer the misfortune of playing a 4th Edition campaign. The accusal:

- Purebreeding, thus slowly genetically eradicating baseline humans
- turning these humans into racial evil-lite or worser, emo
- looking ugly

guilty as charged. Now where are my epic spells.....?

[Mewtarthio]

"Hey, who are you?"
"My name's Despair. Who are you?"
"I'm Sorrow. My name is far more saddening than yours. Who's that guy?"
"Me? I'm Gluttony. This is my friend Lust. And that's Rambo."
-When D&D gets out of hand.

Now, you're being unfair. Tieflings can have other names, too, if they want to dedicate themselves to other ideals. In addition to Sorrow and Despair, who really should have killed themselves by now, we have Quest, who probably hangs out at taverns and will do any odd job for you if it involves travelling out of town, and Ideal, who upholds the ideal of, er, ideals.


A store frequented by teens of the other races, I hope. Possibly wearing red-tinged makeup. And prosthetic chin-fringes and/or horns.

Okay, it's official. Tieflings are now the best thing to ever happen to DnD. :smallamused:

[Maerok]

Lamer than midichlorians. :smallbiggrin:

[Reel On, Love]

A store frequented by teens of the other races, I hope. Possibly wearing red-tinged makeup. And prosthetic chin-fringes and/or horns.

There is NO WAY I am not using that.

[The Necroswanso]

Lamer than midichlorians. :smallbiggrin:


Um...Ouch.
You seriously should find a place to lie low. WoTC may be watching this site, and them's definitely fightin' words.:smalleek:

[Rutee]

The truth is ugly. It's okay to reject it. We all fear it some times.
Right, because that's why King Arthur is always portrayed as Hulk Hogan.

[Cuddly]

King Arthur is most definitely not "high fantasy".

[Johnny Blade]

Some young tieflings, striving to find a place in the world, choose a name that signifies a concept and then try to embody the concept. For some, the chosen name is a noble quest. For others, it is a grim destiny.
So, what about the Tieflings that call themselves Carrion?

Oh, and please, try to imagine someone introducing him- or herself to you with the words "Hi, I'm Open."...:smallconfused:

[Cyclone231]

Uh, what D&D have you been playing? Check your books; the females almost inevitably have sexy-over-useful armor.

Edit: "Modern Names: ... Sorrow, Torment, Weary."
Tieflings? More like EMOLINGS, amirite!Look up the meaning of the name "Dolores." It means sorrow.

Spanish? More like EMOISH amirite?

But seriously, aren't they supposed to be like, not caring about the evil empire their forefathers ruled, and be rather atheistic? Why are they dressing like satanists? Aha! I've got it! A way to explain this other than GRIMDARK EMO GUYS.

Because their forefathers were EVIL, they wore red spiky clothes with spikes on the spikes. Then, their empire crumbled and the nobility survived in a few city states, creating their own new culture which had the same aesthetic sense as their former empire. When the later human empire overtook their lands, those descended from the ancient nobility were considered second-class citizens due to their demonic heritage and appearance. This constant treatment lead the tieflings to develop their own subculture, with a significant focus on stoicism and the tiefling community. Thus, badges such as "sorrow" and "torment" became names due to the idea that you should suffer and feel bad, that no sacrifice, even the sacrifice of personal happiness or fullfillment, is too great in defense of the tiefling community.

As for the other names, uh... maybe Tieflings no speak Common so good?

[tyckspoon]

So, what about the Tieflings that call themselves Carrion?


They spend their days laying in fields and trying to smell worse? Probably not an adventuring name, there.

[Maerok]

Um...Ouch.
You seriously should find a place to lie low. WoTC may be watching this site, and them's definitely fightin' words.:smalleek:

I've been looking over a lot of the previews and stuff, and even with their presentations it's all just kind of cliched. I'm confused as to whether it is intentional or not. I get the impression that a lot of the design choices have ultimately come down to fan service, especially after watching videos of their presentations from a while ago announcing 4th edition. A little convention and sanctity to original concepts/visions would be nice here and there.

[Tengu]

"Well, it's not much better than Random!"
"Don't give me that! Random Frequentflyer Dent really is my real name, I swear!"


This casts a new light on random encounters - in 4e, they will always involve at least one tiefling. Probably always the same one.

[Rutee]

King Arthur is most definitely not "high fantasy".

Can I get directions to your parallel universe?

[ShadowSiege]

High fantasy is basically an embodiment of steroid abuse. Think of Regdar from the PHB.

What? Regdar looks well within the realm of possibility without steroid abuse. He has a well muscled physique, certainly believable as he is a highly trained warrior (fighter). Conan the Barbarian is more of what you're thinking of for a 'roider fantasy male.

[The Necroswanso]

@Rutee: Lol. Exactly.
Arthurmania's runnin' wild.

[tyckspoon]

This casts a new light on random encounters - in 4e, they will always involve at least one tiefling. Probably always the same one.

Better to have 4 or 6 or some other die-size number of Tieflings who all (randomly, naturally) took on the same name. That way you could roll for which one showed up in each encounter.

[Johnny Blade]

Look up the meaning of the name "Dolores." It means sorrow.

Spanish? More like EMOISH amirite?
Well, the name Dolores refers to the sorrow(s) of Mary.

Picking the name Sorrow because you want to devote your life to the concept, however...

I mean, there is no way you can convince me that the Tieflings aren't supposed to be the resident emos.
Their description even reads like:
Play a Tiefling if you want...

to get your emo on
to be good at some stuff
to be good at some other stuff


Next they're going to reveal that the only gods some Tieflings still follow have skulls and cherries as their holy symbols.

[Rutee]

Better to have 4 or 6 or some other die-size number of Tieflings who all (randomly, naturally) took on the same name. That way you could roll for which one showed up in each encounter.

What about a sentai encounter of all 6?

[Xefas]

A store frequented by teens of the other races, I hope. Possibly wearing red-tinged makeup. And prosthetic chin-fringes and/or horns.

Yes, you've got the general idea.

The Dragonborn, however, which I've paired up with Kobolds, will work several of the establishments in the hub alongside their smaller brethren.

Dragonborns with Fire Breath will run the Pizzeria, Ice Breath will make Gelato/Ice Cream/Frozen Yogurt, Acid Breath will run the Sanitation Department, and Lightning Breath will be the law enforcement.

Kobolds will obviously be the delivery boys, monotonous ice cream stirring technicians, garbage collectors, and packs of crazed lizard monsters in police uniforms that pop out of the sewer and maul criminals immediately after the culprit becomes trapped in some kind of ingenious snare the Kobolds rigged up only moments ago.

That is, assuming I heard correctly that Encounter Powers can be used once per five minutes outside of battle.

I still don't know what to name this cultural melting-pot.

[Reel On, Love]

So, what about the Tieflings that call themselves Carrion?

Oh, and please, try to imagine someone introducing him- or herself to you with the words "Hi, I'm Open."...:smallconfused:

"Hi, I'm Easy."
"..."
"Going! Easy-going!"

[Reel On, Love]

Look up the meaning of the name "Dolores." It means sorrow.

Spanish? More like EMOISH amirite?
Yes. Yes, you are.

(Well, no, since saying "amirite" makes you automatically wrong, regardless.)

Look, I'm just saying it's funny in the modern context. Being named Dolores or Tristan is one thing. Naming yourself Sorrow, or Torment, or Bloodshadow Shadowblood Master of Bloodomancy... that's something else.

Something emo this way /wrists. That's all I'm sayin'.

[tyckspoon]

What about a sentai encounter of all 6?

Well, that's hardly random, is it? Quite confusing (Random Ranger, Random Ranger, Random Ranger, Random Ranger, Random Ranger and Random Ranger appear before you in a puff of colored smoke! Random Ranger is nearest you, and Random Ranger stands in the back with a bow...) but rather more ordered than suggested by a bunch of tieflings who decided to take on the concept of 'random.' A group who all picked related theme names would make a better sentai team. An Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors team, say; Tieflings Fire, Ice, Acid, Lightning, Radiant, Shadow?

[Starsinger]

What about a sentai encounter of all 6?

The Mighty Depressing Emolings?
Sorrow, Despair, Angst, Futility, Bleak, and Kimberlee.

[Dragonmuncher]

King Arthur is most definitely not "high fantasy".

I'd dispute that. King Arthur tales- the traditional tales, not attempts to turn it into a gritty fantasy (although I do enjoy those), are all about grand, epic knights of honor, wandering the countryside righting wrongs and looking for the Holy Grail. Fantasy where good almost always wins, the evil witches try to tempt the noble warriors but fail, the beautiful queen in the majestic castle... this is the stuff of "high fantasy"

If Arthurian tales weren't "high fantasy," Merlin would turn out to be secretly evil, knights would sometimes beat or rape a peasant simply because they felt like it, and the Grail would turn out to be a powerful artifact that could be used for good OR evil, depending on who acquired it.

Or something. The term "high fantasy" has always been a bit vague, in my opinion. Still, I think it has to do with an emphasis on the epic rather than the specific, a clear view of right and wrong, and impressive effects and speeches. Arthur tales have a lot of that.

[Reel On, Love]

I still don't know what to name this cultural melting-pot.

The college-town section of Sigil near Sigil Prep (http://www.sigilprep.com/).

[Rutee]

Well, that's hardly random, is it? Quite confusing (Random Ranger, Random Ranger, Random Ranger, Random Ranger, Random Ranger and Random Ranger appear before you in a puff of colored smoke! Random Ranger is nearest you, and Random Ranger stands in the back with a bow...) but rather more ordered than suggested by a bunch of tieflings who decided to take on the concept of 'random.' A group who all picked related theme names would make a better sentai team. An Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors team, say; Tieflings Fire, Ice, Acid, Lightning, Radiant, Shadow?
No, that's what gives them powerful; They change their gimmicks at random. So you might be fighting an All Magi Sentai Team one day (Magiranger!) and then the next one they're all in power armor.

[The Necroswanso]

High Fantasy is usually the depiction of strong men, with a grand cause, usually saving beautiful women. That's King Arthur right there. Usually by some divine decree, and often times, simply because it's the "right thing to do". It's not always pristine as "high fantasy" usually deals with extremes. Barbarians are, well barbaric. Dirty vicious men/women living in the mountains/woods, good wizards are clean bearded men with great knowledge while the evil ones are usually filthy, covered in boils, and consorting with devils.
There is usually very little middle ground in high fantasy and usually the only actual middle ground is being a peasant.

[tyckspoon]

No, that's what gives them powerful; They change their gimmicks at random. So you might be fighting an All Magi Sentai Team one day (Magiranger!) and then the next one they're all in power armor.

Ooh, yes. I see. That'd be quite fun to play with as a DM. I'd probably employ them similarly to the Prism Ranger team in Disgaea.. only sometimes they would luck into an effective configuration and be a proper competitor/roadblock/whatever to the PCs. Or just a recurring easter-egg encounter in an even sillier game.

[Xefas]

Ooh, yes. I see. That'd be quite fun to play with as a DM. I'd probably employ them similarly to the Prism Ranger team in Disgaea.. only sometimes they would luck into an effective configuration and be a proper competitor/roadblock/whatever to the PCs. Or just a recurring easter-egg encounter in an even sillier game.

Even better if you use the actual setup from the Prism Ranger encounter at some point.

Have it happen within a place of distorted space, so that on everyone's turn, their positions change. Maybe roll 1d8 to determine direction, and then 1d8 to determine number of squares moved.

Nothing says Random like fighting a randomly assorted team of people named Random in which everyone is shunted randomly across the field. The only thing that could make it better would be a Wild Magic zone.

[Mewtarthio]

I'd dispute that. King Arthur tales- the traditional tales, not attempts to turn it into a gritty fantasy (although I do enjoy those), are all about grand, epic knights of honor, wandering the countryside righting wrongs and looking for the Holy Grail. Fantasy where good almost always wins, the evil witches try to tempt the noble warriors but fail, the beautiful queen in the majestic castle... this is the stuff of "high fantasy"

If Arthurian tales weren't "high fantasy," Merlin would turn out to be secretly evil, knights would sometimes beat or rape a peasant simply because they felt like it, and the Grail would turn out to be a powerful artifact that could be used for good OR evil, depending on who acquired it.

Or something. The term "high fantasy" has always been a bit vague, in my opinion. Still, I think it has to do with an emphasis on the epic rather than the specific, a clear view of right and wrong, and impressive effects and speeches. Arthur tales have a lot of that.

I always figured "high fantasy" was a reference to the "amount" of fantasy (ie, the relative amount of fantastic elements) in the story. Once Merlin gets locked away, the Arthurian tales are more along the lines of heroic fantasy: You've got your fairly mundane knights who run around and defeat fantastic enemies. Nobody casts magic spells or anything like that.

And then, of course, there's "high fantasy" which is "fantasy on drugs." That'd be King Arthur as presented by Fate Stay Night, in which she (yes, she) shoots exploding laser beams at Pegasus while standing atop a skyscraper in modern Tokyo. You see, it's all relative, but I'd file most Arthurian legends under "low fantasy," or at most "moderate fantasy."

Regardless, I'm fairly certain that the term "high fantasy" has nothing at all to do with morality. You're thinking of traditional fantasy as opposed to "dark fantasy." The best definition of "dark fantasy" I've heard is "The No Princesses Rule: Nothing you'd find in an eight-year-old girl's bedroom."

[Tengu]

You know, I think there's no way this description of tieflings is completely serious. I'm sure Wizards are going into the tongue-in-the-cheek direction some of the stuff for first edition supposedly had. And I like it.

[Reel On, Love]

And then, of course, there's "high fantasy" which is "fantasy on drugs." That'd be King Arthur as presented by Fate Stay Night, in which she (yes, she) shoots exploding laser beams at Pegasus while standing atop a skyscraper in modern Tokyo.

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/031706/what.jpg

[Rutee]

She also duels Kojiro, Miyamoto Musashi's eternal rival, and dukes it out with Hassan-i-Sabbah and Gilgamesh (Yes, that Gilgamesh) :smallbiggrin:

...Oh hay, someone else knows about Marriedtothesea.

[Johnny Blade]

A group who all picked related theme names would make a better sentai team. An Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors team, say; Tieflings Fire, Ice, Acid, Lightning, Radiant, Shadow?
This brings us dangerously close to the following gang of misfits:

Pestilence, a shy guy who always felt that life somehow passed him by and he mattered to no one. Therefore, he picked the name Carrion for himself some years ago. Now, after he still hasn't fully achieved this state, no matter how hard he tried, he has renamed himself to Pestilence, not only because of all the diseases he carries but also because people always lock their doors when he's in town. At least they react to him now... :smallfrown:

Famine, the only female member of the group. Her oppressive parents (who, somehow, were humans, for whatever reasons) have left her as one wreck of a Tiefling. Now she is both bulimic and feeling an insatiable hunger for acceptance and fulfillment, which is why she picked her name that is both ironic and a testament of her lost soul. :smallfrown:

Death, who never fit in, was constantly ridiculed, and is now emotionally, well, dead. He's also dead to the world. And dead serious about it. Okay, I won't beat that dead horse any longer... What matters is, no one was ever there for him, and now he doesn't care any longer. :smallfrown:

War, who goes all meta. Actually being a rather simple-minded buffoon who is perfectly happy when he can smash the occasional skull and pillage a town on the way somehow got stuck with this group where he is the one that actually doesn't fit in. This made him the most depressed of the group who now carves amateurish poems into his victims' carcasses. The irony. The tragic, tragic irony. :smallfrown:

[Cuddly]

I'd dispute that. King Arthur tales- the traditional tales, not attempts to turn it into a gritty fantasy (although I do enjoy those), are all about grand, epic knights of honor, wandering the countryside righting wrongs and looking for the Holy Grail. Fantasy where good almost always wins, the evil witches try to tempt the noble warriors but fail, the beautiful queen in the majestic castle... this is the stuff of "high fantasy"

If Arthurian tales weren't "high fantasy," Merlin would turn out to be secretly evil, knights would sometimes beat or rape a peasant simply because they felt like it, and the Grail would turn out to be a powerful artifact that could be used for good OR evil, depending on who acquired it.

Or something. The term "high fantasy" has always been a bit vague, in my opinion. Still, I think it has to do with an emphasis on the epic rather than the specific, a clear view of right and wrong, and impressive effects and speeches. Arthur tales have a lot of that.

Ehhhh, I meant the large parts of the Arthurian stuff where dudes ride around on horses and hit people. Not that fantastic.

[Reel On, Love]

She also duels Kojiro, Miyamoto Musashi's eternal rival, and dukes it out with Hassan-i-Sabbah and Gilgamesh (Yes, that Gilgamesh) :smallbiggrin:

...Oh hay, someone else knows about Marriedtothesea.

I discovered Married To The Sea when someone posted that cow picture on the WotC forums.

Man, it is made of crack.

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/050508/rainbows-were-finally-proved-not-to-be-dangerous-in-1965.gif

Crack.

[Starsinger]

This brings us dangerously close to the following gang of misfits:

Thank you for ruining the Horsemen of the Apocalypse for me...

[Haruspex]

Descendants of diabolists, eh? Previously they were outsider-mortal offspring IIRC. I guess it allows the species to propagate without constant human-demon orgies. For a PC race this is an important consideration.

The fluff and stats seem alright, if a bit cliched. Are they meant to be the new half-orcs, society-wise?

[tyckspoon]

Thank you for ruining the Horsemen of the Apocalypse for me...

Reminds me of the Four from Good Omens. Well, The Other Four, to be more precise.

[Shademan]

still dont get why the aasimars were tucked away

[InaVegt]

Pestilence, a shy guy who always felt that life somehow passed him by and he mattered to no one. Therefore, he picked the name Carrion for himself some years ago. Now, after he still hasn't fully achieved this state, no matter how hard he tried, he has renamed himself to Pestilence, not only because of all the diseases he carries but also because people always lock their doors when he's in town. At least they react to him now... :smallfrown:

I object to that.

1st: I am not shy
2nd: I'm not a guy

I consider your view of me quite offensive.

[KIDS]

Let it be known that I vehemently object to the large curved back horns (wtf! are they supposed to be Draenei? some functionality...) and the nonprehensile tail which IMO should go to the Dragonborn.

Apart from that, I rather like the whole thing and look forward to playing a Tiefling in the future.

p.s. I salute the names, which sound initially dumb but do have some potential - it's a brave experiment on their side.

[Reel On, Love]

p.s. I salute the names, which sound initially dumb but do have some potential - it's a brave experiment on their side.

You know, if the setting were Sigil, I wouldn't bat an eye. It's just too easy to make fun of, is all.

[Farmer42]

I was hoping someone else would that they're Punk Rockers :smallbiggrin:

Great, now I'm going to be compelled to name my first Teifling in 4e Sheena now.

[Kizara]

Great, now I'm going to be compelled to name my first Teifling in 4e Sheena now.

Name her Nightwish or you aren't cool.


That remind of me my current campaign:

BBEG: Lord Sideous

His second: Nightwish

We're on a quest to get the Shards of Instablility to help destroy the world (evil campaign). The sad part? This is meant as a mainly serious campaign. I'm going to show my DM this preview so he can feel better about his failure to name things decently.

[AslanCross]

Name her Nightwish or you aren't cool.

...I swear, the first NPC party I will introduce in my campaign will contain:
-A dwarf fighter named Hammerfall
-A Dragonbord warlord named Rhapsody-of-Fire
-A cleric named The Blind Guardian
-A Tiefling rogue named Nightwish.

[Reel On, Love]

Great, now I'm going to be compelled to name my first Teifling in 4e Sheena now.

Mine's gonna wear flowers in his hair.

[Dhavaer]

I'm calling my first tiefling Fable. Well, I'm going to call her Dynamene, but if that was your name, wouldn't 'Fable' start sounding pretty good?

[EvilElitest]

Lamer than midichlorians. :smallbiggrin:

we lost gnomes for this:smallconfused:
I liked the old tieflings, bring them back and keep the dragon folk
from
EE

[Scintillatus]

Lightning Breath will be the law enforcement.

Don't lightning-breath me, bro!

On a more serious note, how exactly is darkness sadness all of a sudden? Do you guys not thing that furious rage, overwhelming greed, destructive lusts and all-consuming gluttony are "dark"? Are those shiny, happy sensations and emotions? Do you get a rage-boner and think "hey, this is a really pleasant and totally un-horrifying desire to murder someone I'm getting"?

Being an anti-hero is kind of the in thing at the moment, and that does not mean angst. I mean, it totally can, look at Batman - but there are plenty of anti-heroes who aren't wristing ceaselessly, and there's always an element of darkness in there. 's up to the Tiefling player to decide what that darkness is, but something tells me there will be more RRRRGH I WILL AVENGE MY DEAD CIVILIZATION WITH YOUR MURDER people than RRRGH THIS POETRY NEEDS MORE REFERENCES TO BATS.

Diss them because of the fact that they are SINISTER CRAB PEOPLE, not because the current knee-jerk reaction insult is "gay" or "emo" or whatever.

Also, I would rather play John Constantine than Merlin. That is my position.

[Reel On, Love]

Don't lightning-breath me, bro!
AhahahaWIN.


Also, I would rather play John Constantine than Merlin. That is my position.
I just read All His Engines today. I need to read more Hellblazer.

[Azerian Kelimon]

You know, I have an inexplicable urge to make a tiefling paladin named Sebastian F. Sorrow, now. He'd be idealistic and happy, having been raised by parents who thought there's no need to angst about this.

That concept gets better by the minute....

[Overlard]

we lost gnomes for this:smallconfused:
So at least some good came from it.

[Dhavaer]

How flexible do you think tiefling tails are? The description says 'non-prehensile', but I can't imagine they have rigid velociraptor-esque things. What can they use their tails for? Pick up a mug by poking the tip through the handle? Slap someone across the face? Flick their hair out of their face?

[Azerian Kelimon]

Maybe something like what Annah-Of-The-Shadows could do?

[Dhavaer]

Maybe something like what Annah-Of-The-Shadows could do?

Moar detail, plz. Sadly, I never played Planescape: Torment, so my familiarity with that character is through name and Rule 34 only.

[Chronicled]

How flexible do you think tiefling tails are? The description says 'non-prehensile', but I can't imagine they have rigid velociraptor-esque things. What can they use their tails for? Pick up a mug by poking the tip through the handle? Slap someone across the face? Flick their hair out of their face?

This page of Anti-Heroes (http://ah.indolents.com/comic/38) (OotS style comic, started on these boards) gives one of the better options :smallwink:.

[Xefas]

Don't lightning-breath me, bro!

This had me grinning-


RRRGH THIS POETRY NEEDS MORE REFERENCES TO BATS.

-and this, chuckling-


Diss them because of the fact that they are SINISTER CRAB PEOPLE

-but this was too much. I think I just loled my pants.

Anyway, aside from the one Ye Old Fire-Based Magick Shoppe/Teenage Hangout that will actually be in my game, all the rest of my jokes about Tieflings are just that- jokes. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't actually intend to use them as Sadness McWhineblood, but probably just very ambitious, intense people named Steve, or Gary, or Sir Nicholas Fletcher: Slayer of Giants.

Though, I'm not sure what civilization to associate them with in terms of accent, architecture, and a well of names and ideas to draw from. For instance, I gave Hobgoblins Rome, so they really like building stuff with pillars and employing slaves to do all their work. Plus I can just call up a site filled with Roman names and name any NPC I want when the PCs start playing the "Hey, random guy on the street, what's your name?!" game.

Yuan-Ti are Aztecs, so they really like stairs, slaves, sacrificial killings, and eating severed organs. The High Elves are French so I can say "Aw-haw-haw, we are ze Elves, and we are bettair zan 'ou". Devils are British because I accidentally started speaking in a British accent when DMing a Pit Fiend on two separate occasions, so it kind of stuck. Etc...

But what about Tieflings? I'm thinking Egyptian. They like heat, will have obelisks built everywhere, and take a liking to removing peoples' brains through their nose.

[Dhavaer]

This page of Anti-Heroes (http://ah.indolents.com/comic/38) (OotS style comic, started on these boards) gives one of the better options :smallwink:.

That goes without saying. :smallbiggrin:

[Azerian Kelimon]

Moar detail, plz. Sadly, I never played Planescape: Torment, so my familiarity with that character is through name and Rule 34 only.

I'd recommend reading the Rhyss Hess novelization. It follows the script almost word for word, and is made of Win.

http://www.wischik.com/lu/senses/pst-book.html

Also, By my Factotum powers, I will have revenge on those who did rule 34 on P:T.

[Scintillatus]

Oh man Xefas, I know you're not serious. I damn near keeled over when I thought of Dragonborn preparing delicious frozen yogurt. I'm just having a go at the people who think that saying "this is totally emo" is the greatest insult ever.

Unless the Tieflings start wearing their hair over their eyes and looking incredibly hot in skinny jeans, I think it's safe to say they're not emo.

[Dhavaer]

But what about Tieflings? I'm thinking Egyptian. They like heat, will have obelisks built everywhere, and take a liking to removing peoples' brains through their nose.

The example names seem to be Greek, in general, so a post-Alexander Egypt would fit very well.

[Xefas]

Oh man Xefas, I know you're not serious. I damn near keeled over when I thought of Dragonborn preparing delicious frozen yogurt.

Okay :smallsmile: . I happened to find the image very amusing, myself. I'm sure it will take my players by surprise as well, since none of them keep up with 4th edition stuff, and the preview game I ran for them to showcase its new features didn't have Dragonborn in it.

As you round the next corner, the sight of a large humanoid reptile with dust-colored scales hunching over a cart with claws outstretched towards a growing crowd of people meets your attention. A booming baritone voice emanates from the creature's fanged maw. "Run, hide, and tremble at my passing! Forsake ye all, the gods who have done the same for you! Lament my presence and clutch covetously your valuables, for the price of thee-" The lizard stomps the ground with one leg and raises its fists into the air.

(This is when all the PCs start shouting that they're going to draw their weapons and interpose themselves between the monster and the crowd. Which is when I add:)

"-se bowls of yogurt is POSITIVELY INSANE! I'd have to be a rampaging lunatic bent on the evisceration of your younglings to sell them this cheap."



The example names seem to be Greek, in general, so a post-Alexander Egypt would fit very well.

Glad to hear it. I'll have to do some research on the period. And by research I mean...wiki.

[Reinboom]

"Despair? That's the most ridiculous name I've ever heard."

Hm...
I now want to make a party consisting of:
Desire
Despair
Death
Destiny
Dream
Delirium
Destruction

But where to find 7 PCs to go along with the theme...

[SamTheCleric]

Hm...
I now want to make a party consisting of:
Desire
Despair
Death
Destiny
Dream
Delirium
Destruction

But where to find 7 PCs to go along with the theme...


You can only do this if Death is a quirky-hot-goth-chick.

[Azerian Kelimon]

And if anyone goes Most Common Superpower or Stripperrific, drop da Banhammer.

[Maerok]

Tiefling Journal Entry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpaxtkHuZnI

[Shademan]

Uh, what D&D have you been playing? Check your books; the females almost inevitably have sexy-over-useful armor.



*looks thru' the 3.5 books*
hm. no. while the core paladin's armour is abit silly i see no other armours that show off bodies instead of protecting. all i can find are some demons/devils/whatever!they have horns! and some spellcasters but apart from that all the armours favour protection over appearance. most of the females armours are formed to fit their bodies but would still give the protection theyre supposed to.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Elven chainmail in the DMG, magic items. 'Nuff said.

[Shademan]

the elven chainmail show off the natural curves of the body while still protecting. it is not bare in senseless places. http://common.allakhazam.com/images/uf/Silvermoonstar/Elven_Chainmail1.JPG
like this:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/Chainmail.jpg

[Human Paragon 3]

Since obviously nobody knows what High Fantasy is and instead just wants to make up their own definitions and arbitrarily decide which stories are and are not High Fantasy, here it is: High Fantasy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy)

King Arthur is not, strictly speaking, high fantasy. The Tieflings are.

[Farmer42]

the elven chainmail show off the natural curves of the body while still protecting. it is not bare in senseless places. http://common.allakhazam.com/images/uf/Silvermoonstar/Elven_Chainmail1.JPG
like this:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/Chainmail.jpg

No, elven chain is still an examble of skimpy armor that does not do it's job, even though it covers the whole body. Same with boobplates. Coverage does not matter here, any armor that exposes figure like that is inherently impractical.
From Complete Adventurer:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86354.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86362.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86372.jpg

And that's just one book, and not even all the infractions contained therein.

[Shademan]

well, its the players choice how he/she wants his/her armour to look like. elven chain dosnt look skimpy on the pic.
.... what does skimpy mean?

i dont have complete adventurer....
hm, yes the first pic is scandalous.
the second is bad as well
but i refuse to belive that the girl third pic is supposed to wear ANY armour.
she looks like a caster to me, also. (waving her hands and stuff)

[SamTheCleric]

First picture is a Daggerspell Mage and Daggerspell Shaper... wizard and druid. Don't necessarily need to wear armor.

Second picture is Nightsong Infiltrator, light armor, does not need to wear much if you have astronomical dex.

Third picture is a Master of Many Forms... wild shaping, so the armor may already be "melded"... just has scraps covering the naughty bits.

[Farmer42]

And I'm not discounting the validity of such choices. It's an RPG. I know how real arms and armor work, but I have the ability to turn that off, and enjoy a good fantasy flick or game. That being said, I define skimpy as any armor that defines the form underneath. In order to get chain to look like the elven chain pictured you actually have to weave it a special way. Chain simply does not drape that way.

As to those pictures, the third is wearing hide armor. It's supposed to be a druid with several different aspects of different creatures.

Edit: At Sam, the DS Druid does not need armor, however the statblock lists said character as wearing leather armor, and with art the way it's been treated, that's "acceptable" leather armor in D&D.

[Shademan]

i see...
hey, anybody know how boobs works in curiasses? imean, are they extra vournable or something?
just curious.

[Farmer42]

Check out the real arms and armor Q's thread, they can, have, and will explaine it better than me.

So, about them Tieflings. Tails, the new black?

[Daegan]

well, its the players choice how he/she wants his/her armour to look like. elven chain dosnt look skimpy on the pic.
.... what does skimpy mean?

What I imagine Farmer42 is referring to is the fact that while the elf in the DMG is covered from neck to foot, she's still impractically armored.

The chainmail is pulled skintight around her as though it were a body stocking. This looks nice and shows off her form, but it also not how chainmail was ever worn. You need significant body padding underneath to protect from chafing and to absorb impact from weapon blows. Chain mail on it's own offers protection against edges, but it does absolutely nothing to protect you from say, a guy with a baseball bat.

This means that the chain mail suit she's wearing is technically about as impractical as any of the other "stripperific" female armor in D&D.

But anyway, yeah tieflings, visually cool. Think the punky clothing is kind of unnecessary. There's something terribly wrong when you have red skin and horns and you feel you have to DRESS the part of a satanist.

[Shademan]

What I imagine Farmer42 is referring to is the fact that while the elf in the DMG is covered from neck to foot, she's still impractically armored.

The chainmail is pulled skintight around her as though it were a body stocking. This looks nice and shows off her form, but it also not how chainmail was ever worn. You need significant body padding underneath to protect from chafing and to absorb impact from weapon blows. Chain mail on it's own offers protection against edges, but it does absolutely nothing to protect you from say, a guy with a baseball bat.

This means that the chain mail suit she's wearing is technically about as impractical as any of the other "stripperific" female armor in D&D.

But anyway, yeah tieflings, visually cool. Think the punky clothing is kind of unnecessary. There's something terribly wrong when you have red skin and horns and you feel you have to DRESS the part of a satanist.

i get the point. i forgot to think about the padding *slaps forehead* but it is still better than the stripperific armour since it dont show skin.
also, blunt weapons are very effective on chainmail (and most other armours) anyways. not trying to make excuses here, but still.

[Rutee]

But anyway, yeah tieflings, visually cool. Think the punky clothing is kind of unnecessary. There's something terribly wrong when you have red skin and horns and you feel you have to DRESS the part of a satanist.

Punk Rockers aren't satanists... ..okay maybe with the horns.. :smalltongue:

[Azerian Kelimon]

Except Emos. And those are certainly not part of Lavey's church of Satan, because that one is rather interesting and a good idea.

[ShadowSiege]

Punk Rockers aren't satanists... ..okay maybe with the horns.. :smalltongue:

The horns are more of a general rock thing than specifically punk. There is an entire wiki article on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horns Apparently it came into popular usage because some guy wanted to connect with the fans with a hand gesture, so he used the one his Italian grandmother used to ward off the evil eye.

As for the names, yes, they're quite silly, and probably tongue-in-cheek. I guarantee any tiefling I play will be more of a Basin City Badass than anything else. They're supposed to be antiheroes, so why not go full blown with it? All monotone clothing except for one item (red converse!).

[Azerian Kelimon]

Nah, if you're going Basin city, make Blue Eyes or a killer version of The Babe that wore Red. Soooo much more color badassery.

[Daegan]

Waitaminute, I just realized, WoTC wasn't thinking draenai (at least not JUST draenai) when they made these new tieflings, they were thinking Hellboy!

Think about it, ridiculous horns? Check.

Nonprehensile tail? Check.

Dark, angsty backstory on a character who honestly tries to not be emo? Check.

Evocative somewhat self mocking nickname used in place of their given name? Big time check.

Okay, I feel better about tieflings now. Hellboy is an awsome example of a 4th ed tiefling that doesn't go into the "Ravenmoon Neversmiles" asthetic.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Daegan, you win for making me notice that. If the designers thought of Hellboy, then tieflings will WIN, period.

[SamTheCleric]

Daegan, you win for making me notice that. If the designers thought of Hellboy, then tieflings will WIN, period.

I need a tshirt that says "Hellboy was a Tiefling."

[The Necroswanso]

The band W.A.S.P. strangely comes to mind. All they needed to add into the typical clothes was bladed gauntlets designed to resemble sawblades.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Waitaminute, I just realized, WoTC wasn't thinking draenai (at least not JUST draenai) when they made these new tieflings, they were thinking Hellboy!

Think about it, ridiculous horns? Check.

Nonprehensile tail? Check.

Dark, angsty backstory on a character who honestly tries to not be emo? Check.

Evocative somewhat self mocking nickname used in place of their given name? Big time check.

Okay, I feel better about tieflings now. Hellboy is an awsome example of a 4th ed tiefling that doesn't go into the "Ravenmoon Neversmiles" asthetic.

Well if anyone in my party's going make a PC called 'Tieflingboy', then I'm definately going to make a PC called 'That Damn Crab Johnson'

[Mando Knight]

I'd actually consider playing a Tiefling Pally... wearing black-stained or black dragon scale armor... What better way to uphold Truth and Justice than as a being of nightmares? Criminals are, after all, "a cowardly and superstitious lot." (-Batman)

EDIT:


How flexible do you think tiefling tails are? The description says 'non-prehensile', but I can't imagine they have rigid velociraptor-esque things. What can they use their tails for? Pick up a mug by poking the tip through the handle? Slap someone across the face? Flick their hair out of their face?

I think that by "non-prehensile," they mean "like a cat's." A cat can control where its tail goes, but cannot grab branches like a monkey's tail. If that's not what they mean, then I'm house-ruling that it is.

[Tengu]

The fun thing is that with the way tieflings have a charisma bonus now (Wizards seemed to finally figure out that the way they portray this race, there's no way they have a penalty to this stat) they will probably make very decent paladins.

[The Necroswanso]

The fun thing is that with the way tieflings have a charisma bonus now (Wizards seemed to finally figure out that the way they portray this race, there's no way they have a penalty to this stat) they will probably make very decent paladins.

And good Bards.

Tiefling Paladin of Heironeous.............. It's a cliche, I know it is..But from where?

[Hadrian_Emrys]

This is really not to my liking. Hell, 3 and 3.5 weren't either without the intervention of a LOT of homebrewing and fluff overhaul. When did fantasy become so non-offensive and pathetic? There are only heroes (blind, and often simplistic, idealists), anti-heroes (bland, two dimensional attempts at complexity of character), and golden age comic book villians as BBEGs. What the flaming hades? What motivates people to play a Tiefling in a manner outside of making a satire on the weak minded wretches that live in Hot Topic? What happened to depth? When did group storytelling become less Lucky Number Sleven and more Austin Powers? :smallfrown:

[Abardam]

The fun thing is that with the way tieflings have a charisma bonus now (Wizards seemed to finally figure out that the way they portray this race, there's no way they have a penalty to this stat)Nah, I think it was to make them good warlocks. Sure, they'll make good paladins (and warlords incidentally) but I doubt they'll be able to take full advantage of their Dex bonus if they're in heavy armor.

[Tengu]

Nah, I think it was to make them good warlocks. Sure, they'll make good paladins (and warlords incidentally) but I doubt they'll be able to take full advantage of their Dex bonus if they're in heavy armor.

Dex bonus? They have +2 Int and Cha.

Infernal Wrath is also a good ability for a melee class, and the only melee classes that have use of Cha in 4ed seem to be Paladin and Warlord. Maybe Rogue, if you count strikers.

[Reel On, Love]

Nah, I think it was to make them good warlocks. Sure, they'll make good paladins (and warlords incidentally) but I doubt they'll be able to take full advantage of their Dex bonus if they're in heavy armor.

What dex bonus? They have +2 INT, +2 CHA. They make good Warlocks, but also good paladins.

Hmm. I wonder how good a Warlock/Paladin would be, or a Paladin/Warlock.

[Abardam]

Whoops. Point still stands, though. AC is Int or Dex if in light armor.

Also Infernal Wrath is good for all classes because all powers are attacks IIRC.

[Kioran]

Whoops. Point still stands, though. AC is Int or Dex if in light armor.

Also Infernal Wrath is good for all classes because all powers are attacks IIRC.

As far as I understand, Heavy armor sucks even worth in 4th Ed - no bonus, while light armor uses can choose between dex and Int. Unless there´s little in the way of ability score advancement (even the point every four levels), armor has even more become like a crutch for those who have crappy stats, like in 3rd.

[Reel On, Love]

As far as I understand, Heavy armor sucks even worth in 4th Ed - no bonus, while light armor uses can choose between dex and Int. Unless there´s little in the way of ability score advancement (even the point every four levels), armor has even more become like a crutch for those who have crappy stats, like in 3rd.

Heavy armor presumably gives an AC bonus that's big enough to cover the difference.

[Kurald Galain]

The fact that you always converted it to squares, or counted it out in the same number of five-foot increments as you'll count squares, anyway.

Well, except for those of us that don't play on a grid.

But kudos on the Zelazny ref :smallamused:



Lamer than midichlorians. :smallbiggrin:

QFT. And yeah, I'm sure tieflings can be cool and all that, but this preview is seriously lame. "Play a tiefling if you want to be a member of a race that favors the warlock class", er, whuh? "Play a tiefling if you want to have a dark side and be called Spooky". Early in 3E we had articles that pointed out WOTC expected everybody to play clerics as healbots; I predict that within a few months WOTC will point out they expected everybody to play tieflings as lame emo goths.

[Oslecamo]

Heavy armor presumably gives an AC bonus that's big enough to cover the difference.

I don't know about that, but it's been confirmed that fighters will have class abilities wich allow them to add their dex bonus to AC even when wearing heavy armor, allowing them to have the best AC of the game.

[AtomicKitKat]

Sigh. Tieflings in 3.x had no problems propogating even without demon/human orgies. They simply existed within the Human race until enough ancestors' DNA got together, or the child's parents had weaker Human portions.

4E Tieflings follow the "one drop" rule, where having even one Tiefling ancestor automatically makes all descendants Tieflings, with no hope of redemption.

Also, Faustian pacts suck. They just reinforce the whole "Devil makes the details" mythos.:smallannoyed:

[Charity]

What dex bonus? They have +2 INT, +2 CHA. They make good Warlocks, but also good paladins.

Hmm. I wonder how good a Warlock/Paladin would be, or a Paladin/Warlock.

You got my 1st 4th ed character right there, my plan is a Paladin of some fate allied god with star pact warlock sprinkles. I've never been a fan of the paladins (neither AD&D nor 3rd ed), but I thought I'd give the new edition a real work out.
I doubt I'll be a Tiefling though.

[Rutee]

QFT. And yeah, I'm sure tieflings can be cool and all that, but this preview is seriously lame. "Play a tiefling if you want to be a member of a race that favors the warlock class"

They've been doing that in their newest books, m'dear. Though it was for classes.

[Kurald Galain]

They've been doing that in their newest books, m'dear. Though it was for classes.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, but that doesn't make it any less lame :smallbiggrin:

[wodan46]

I hope they have a racial feat that allows them to gore people. Combine that with the Barbarian class with the bite attack and you have pure win.

Eladrin are technically Aasimar, as PC Eladrin are the weakest of the Eladrin, of whom the stronger ones are celestials.

Warlords and Warlocks will be the key classes for Tieflings, followed by Paladins, Wizards, and lastly Bards when they eventually come out.

[Xefas]

Hmm, it seems that when I wasn't watching this thread started to shift from light-hearted and good-natured teasing of some of the aspects of new tieflings into typical "waaaah waaaaah" that always accompanies any news regarding 4e. Unpleasable fanbase (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase) indeed.

I agree. Also:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/ErathaolTheSeer/UnpleasableFanbase.jpg

[Dhavaer]

Hmm, it seems that when I wasn't watching this thread started to shift from light-hearted and good-natured teasing of some of the aspects of new tieflings into typical "waaaah waaaaah" that always accompanies any news regarding 4e. Unpleasable fanbase (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase) indeed.

At least there's a little bit of justification (silly example names) for the 'tiefling = emo' complaints, as opposed to the half-elf = emo complaints I saw occasionally for 3.5.

[tyckspoon]

At least there's a little bit of justification (silly example names) for the 'tiefling = emo' complaints, as opposed to the half-elf = emo complaints I saw occasionally for 3.5.

Well, yeah. It's the young tieflings taking on the silly names. Just like young humans do in the real world. Normal tiefling names look very Greek and not, to the best of my knowledge, at all emo (although it does make me wonder if Dragonborn names will be Persian.) All it indicates is that teen tieflings may do stupid things, exactly like.. every other kind of teenager.

[kme]

This may be off topic, but did anyone notice other pics in this guy's gallery. Especially this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/benimoto/2308408982/sizes/l/) one.
So now mirror image is 10th level daily, and fly, greater invisibility, and displacement are 16th level! Not to mention that greater invisibility now acts like normal invisibility in 3.5 except it lasts only one round.

[Dhavaer]

Normal tiefling names look very Greek and not, to the best of my knowledge, at all emo (although it does make me wonder if Dragonborn names will be Persian.)

And that makes the second time today I type 'THIS! IS! BAEL TURATH!'.

In any case, I like the new tieflings. I'm glad they finally have a charisma bonus instead of a penalty, for one thing.

[SurlySeraph]

This may be off topic, but did anyone notice other pics in this guy's gallery. Especially this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/benimoto/2308408982/sizes/l/) one.
So now mirror image is 10th level daily, and fly, greater invisibility, and displacement are 16th level! Not to mention that greater invisibility now acts like normal invisibility in 3.5 except it lasts only one round.

If they're changing spell levels to the caster level or class level you need to get the spell, I'm very much in favor of that. It'll make things a lot simpler.

[kme]

I am ok with that change. It is siply strange that some iconic spells became much higher level (especially since the 1ts level in PC class in 4th ed is much greater feat then 1st level in 3.5). Now you cannot fly until 16th level and since greater invisibility lasts only one round I wonder what will normal invisibility do. Maybe now it is a ritual, meant only for out of combat uses.

[Starbuck_II]

This may be off topic, but did anyone notice other pics in this guy's gallery. Especially this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/benimoto/2308408982/sizes/l/) one.
So now mirror image is 10th level daily, and fly, greater invisibility, and displacement are 16th level! Not to mention that greater invisibility now acts like normal invisibility in 3.5 except it lasts only one round.

Remember, Mirror Image lasts a hour now.
Fly, G. Invis, etc can be maintained by a minor action so they last longer than 1 round (read the text).

[EvilElitest]

Waitaminute, I just realized, WoTC wasn't thinking draenai (at least not JUST draenai) when they made these new tieflings, they were thinking Hellboy!

Think about it, ridiculous horns? Check.

Nonprehensile tail? Check.

Dark, angsty backstory on a character who honestly tries to not be emo? Check.

Evocative somewhat self mocking nickname used in place of their given name? Big time check.

Okay, I feel better about tieflings now. Hellboy is an awsome example of a 4th ed tiefling that doesn't go into the "Ravenmoon Neversmiles" asthetic.

I said that like four months ago

Tengu, i think the unpleasent fan base can be traced back to WotC general incompetence

from
EE

[Prophaniti]

I have to agree that they can't be entirely serious with this stuff. It's just too much. Now, the Hellboy take I can stand. Maybe tieflings won't be so bad... Still, it seems likely to be quite a long time before my group even considers picking up 4E, so I'll continue to amuse myself with laughing at what I can only hope is concious self-parody on the part of WotC.

[tyckspoon]

I am ok with that change. It is siply strange that some iconic spells became much higher level (especially since the 1ts level in PC class in 4th ed is much greater feat then 1st level in 3.5). Now you cannot fly until 16th level and since greater invisibility lasts only one round I wonder what will normal invisibility do. Maybe now it is a ritual, meant only for out of combat uses.

They've said they're trying to make more of the game feel like the current sweet spot, which is the lower to mid-level game. So, IIRC, level 1 in 4e should be comparable to about level 3 in 3.5 and level 20 is closer to 15 or 16.

[AslanCross]

I'm of the opinion that this whole emo tiefling business is just a time and place thing. Had they made tieflings like this before the emo subculture became prevalent, I'm sure most people would've called them "dark, brooding antiheroes."

[Rockphed]

I'm of the opinion that this whole emo tiefling business is just a time and place thing. Had they made tieflings like this before the emo subculture became prevalent, I'm sure most people would've called them "dark, brooding antiheroes."

Does this mean we get to blame the Emos for making Tieflings emo?

[The_Blue_Sorceress]

I don't see why it's worth the effort to complain about the changes to tieflings as a race. You can just re-fluff tieflings to suit your own sense of aesthetic. It's your game, play them how you want. That's certainly what I plan to do.

Blue

[Starsinger]

All it indicates is that teen tieflings may do stupid things, exactly like.. every other kind of teenager.

When there's trouble you know who to call... Teen Tieflings!

[Hadrian_Emrys]

When there's trouble you know who to call... Teen Tieflings!

[/Puffy Ami Yumi]

[Rutee]

[/Puffy Ami Yumi]

Wouldn't they be like, elves? :3

[Starsinger]

Wouldn't they be like, elves? :3

They're small, annoying, but good singers.. obviously they're 3.5 gnomes...

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Either way, I TOTALLY see them saying "Tief Titans!" in my mind's eye. Yay for the engrish language. :smallbiggrin:

[Jayngfet]

Does this mean we get to blame the Emos for making Tieflings emo?

No, we get to blame them for fooling us into thinking that we got to blame them for making wotc think of making tieflings change to emo.

[Starbuck_II]

Does this mean we get to blame the Emos for making Tieflings emo?

Exactly, in fact, beat on the next Emo kid you see: they will thank you for it.

Note: I am not held responsible for any beatings that occur. Do at your own risk.

[Azerian Kelimon]

I don't see how wishing that the biggest name in gaming would try to lead and form taste, rather than follow the herd (no tiefling reference intended) = "unappeasable fanbase". :smallconfused:

Because WoTC DOESN'T want to be the lead in taste. The more memorable a product is, the harder it is to kill, and since WoTC's philosophy is (Rutee quote) "Boy howdy we sure do like money!", they want to kill their product for a new one as soon as they run out of ideas. Hence, the duller and greyer they are, the easier the job is.

If you want taste and style, that's what GURPS is for.

[Starbuck_II]

Because WoTC DOESN'T want to be the lead in taste. The more memorable a product is, the harder it is to kill, and since WoTC's philosophy is (Rutee quote) "Boy howdy we sure do like money!", they want to kill their product for a new one as soon as they run out of ideas. Hence, the duller and greyer they are, the easier the job is.

If you want taste and style, that's what GURPS is for.

No, they want to create jokes. This has been the philosophy behind WoTC since Gygax.
The designers are having a joke with the race. Because D&D is not serious business (no more than the internet).
It started with Gygax: making stupid (deadly too) monsters like slagmates that eat you, etc. Belt of Gender change, etc
It continued with material components: have you looked at them.
a. Talcum powder is see invisibility (well duh, if you were covered in that you would be seen).
b. Bat poop is flamable hence fireball
c. Make an archiac TV Set for Scry.
d. Grease is actual grease.
e. Little Tower of Babel for Tongues.

The new joke is Emo names of Tieflings.

Perrsonall, once you realize this: it becomes hilarious.

[SamTheCleric]

Hmm... Do all Tieflings start with a Dashboard Confessional CD?

[ShadowSiege]

Hmm... Do all Tieflings start with a Dashboard Confessional CD?

Yes. Their starting equipment includes armor that is small in size, as well as bracelets, earplugs, and nonfunctional thick rimmed square glasses. The starting hairstyle is "long enough to cover one eye".

[SamTheCleric]

Wait, I have to pay extra for guyliner? Bah!

[Starsinger]

Wait, I have to pay extra for guyliner? Bah!

You have the choice of Guyliner or the CD. Accessorize wisely.

[Xefas]

Accessorize wisely.

As you enter the Blazing Topic, the fetid stench of brimstone and freshly inked poetry assaults your senses. With the sunlight once again receding from the dank establishment as the door creeks closed, a figure emerges from the blackness behind the front desk. Swiftly, you cross the short distance, the faint jingling of some far-off merchandise hinting at the presence of other patrons.

With a grunt, your dwarven comrade hefts the severed fire beetle intestines from his pack and into your hands, and you sling them onto the counter. The soft, apathetic gaze of the Tiefling's one visible eye shifts between them and you several times before speaking.

"Very well. For your payment, we have a number of magic items in stock. You're free to take your pick among them." drifts the creature's voice, tepid as stagnant pond water. Leading you into the back room, he gestures up at several shelves before listing the contents.

"Bull's Strength Nail Polish, Eyeliner of True Seeing, +1 Corset of Resistance, Nipple Rings of Striding and Sprinting, Sovereign Hair Gel, and Nightmare Before Christmas Themed Satchel of Holding" murmurs the grim monotone. "One for each of you. Accessorize Wisely."

Several moments of deafening silence followed, broken finally by the dwarf tugging on your elven compatriot's sleeve. His eyes, alight with eldritch energy, cast a glow down upon the gruff fighter's face as he raised a quizzical brow. "Laddie, I'm sorry for ev'rything I e'er said about yeh." spoke the dwarf, a single tear running down his face and into his beard.

[Scintillatus]

Just think of how much fanwank could have been solved by just restricting the conceptual names to ones like "Fall-from-Grace" or "Death-of-Names". :smallamused:

[Azerian Kelimon]

Or, of course, Annah-Of-The-Shadows. If ye gotta play, play well!

That said, 'tis a pity we do not get Punch daggers or Katars.

[tyckspoon]

Or, of course, Annah-Of-The-Shadows. If ye gotta play, play well!

That said, 'tis a pity we do not get Punch daggers or Katars.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpt_4E_weapons1.jpg

Bottom right.

[Reel On, Love]

Just think of how much fanwank could have been solved by just restricting the conceptual names to ones like "Fall-from-Grace" or "Death-of-Names". :smallamused:

See, in a world where belief defines reality, identity-based names like Fall-from-Grace are just fine.

In a world where "Redgar" is a typical name, calling yourself "Sorrow" just implies that your tears smudge your eyeliner on a regular basis.

(Although a trio named "Memory", "Sorrow", and "Thorn" has potential.)

[Azerian Kelimon]

OOH, so MAYBE superior weapons WILL be good! I mean, they can't screw up a Katar!

[horseboy]

If Arthurian tales weren't "high fantasy," knights would sometimes beat or rape a peasant simply because they felt like itWhich version did you read? La' Morte d'Arthur had Galahad slaughtering women because they stood there giggling instead of being useful.

I hope that wasn't the final product. That was just painful to read, it was almost as bad as Live Journal.

Nope, not allowed to happen with my group. We'd end up with Pain, Fear, Irony, Despair, and Death. We'd put down "Like candy" or "Leopard spotted" under eyes. Then in session 2 everybody would show up in "those" T-shirts that hasn't fit in a decade so it's been hiding in the back, bottom corner of the closet. Then the DM has us find a magic item that paints small paintings of people and things very quickly, so our characters can stare at them for so long. No , no , no. It's just best not to go down that path.