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Cuddly
2008-05-06, 02:25 PM
What would be a good class to put on the other side of this? I'm thinking 3 levels swashbuckler, and lots of swordsage. Do a lot of SA damage, and turn it into cha damage through maiming strike. I don't want to put a caster on the other side of it, because it'd be too cheesy.

Also; what spells/SLAs would be good to prepare? I'm thinking mostly ability score damage/drain stuff, as well as nerveskitter, wraithstrike, friendly fire, and the like. Factotum can't prepare multiples of the same spell, which is a bummer. How does CL work off of those classes spells/SLAs? Can chameleons really prepare any spell they want, since they're almost all on a divine list somewhere?

Other than lots of FoI, feats would be the one that lets me SA undead and construct, the LoM feat that lets me hide from scent, blindsight, etc., daring outlaw, and kung-fu genius.

I think I'd also pick up the dark template for HiPS. Basically,
Basically, a rogue with a small amount of casting abilities, that can adapt to bad situations.

Frosty
2008-05-06, 02:29 PM
I'd go for Warblade 20 on the other side.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-06, 02:37 PM
No, what you do is put chameleon on the other side. The SINGLE biggest weakness of that combo is that you lose some ability from either cham or 'Totum. With gestalt, that's not the case. Then, you can take Swashbuckler and some full BAB class and have a guy who not only can cast like a mystic theurge and do so more than once per round, but can also full attack and do all the hits.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-06, 02:37 PM
I'd just go Factotum//Warblade or Factotem//Wizard. Really, any non feat-intensive build is good with Factotem. Actually, Factotems are just automatically good like that.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 02:38 PM
Well, I wanted to get WRT so I could share my multiple actions with the party. Assassin's stance + shadowblade also lets me add dex to damage, as well as more sneak attack dice.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 02:39 PM
No, what you do is put chameleon on the o
ther side. The SINGLE biggest weakness of that combo is that you lose some ability from either cham or 'Totum. With gestalt, that's not the case. Then, you can take Swashbuckler and some full BAB class and have a guy who not only can cast like a mystic theurge and do so more than once per round, but can also full attack and do all the hits.

Factotum don't get much past level 8, imo.
Hmm, maybe Fact20//swash3/ss2/chameleon10/something else 5.

Starting level is 9.

As for feats, I'd go with gray elf, and just chaos shuffle the WPs. It's no big deal there, since fact gives me all SWPs and MWPs for free.

Actually, maybe I shouldn't spec rogue-ing so hard. I think someone else will be playing the rogue. There will also be a totally brutal bloodstorm blade, so I may as well stay out of melee. What would make me be good at everything, but without making the rest of the party superfluous?

Frosty
2008-05-06, 02:42 PM
You can umm...emulate class features I guess. So along with the Chamleon, you can pretend to be 5 classes at once.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-06, 02:47 PM
Factotum don't get much past level 8, imo.

Yeah. You can't emulate class features, or overcome SR and DR like nothing. No, sirrah! Nuh, uh!

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 02:49 PM
Yeah. You can't emulate class features, or overcome SR and DR like nothing. No, sirrah! Nuh, uh!

Emulate class features at level 17. I guess level 11 would be good for breaking SR.

Jesus, putting wizard on the other side of that would be absolutely hideous.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-06, 02:53 PM
Wizard plus commoner is hideous. Really, anythin with wizard is hideous.

But you know why breaking SR is so useful? Golems are immune to any spell that allows SR. Now, MY spells don't allow SR due to the ability. Ever felt the need to blast a golem or Enervate it? Now you can.

And of course, it's grand with any high SR mobs.

And of course, there's Cunning Dodge. Once per round, you become unkillable by anything that's not a save or die.

Frosty
2008-05-06, 02:56 PM
What is the exact wording for bypassing SR/DR? Because I've asked, and the Beguiler ability auto-pass SR doesn't work against golems.

Chronos
2008-05-06, 03:00 PM
Also; what spells/SLAs would be good to prepare? I'm thinking mostly ability score damage/drain stuff, as well as nerveskitter, wraithstrike, friendly fire, and the like. Factotum can't prepare multiples of the same spell, which is a bummer. How does CL work off of those classes spells/SLAs? Can chameleons really prepare any spell they want, since they're almost all on a divine list somewhere?Don't forget that Chameleons can also take arcane focus. Between the two, they can literally prepare and cast any spell at all, so long as it's 6th level or lower on any class's list. One popular trick with Chameleons, once you can change your focus twice a day (or before then, if you can anticipate an adventure the day before) is to go Divine Focus and cast a bunch of long-duration buff spells, and then switch to Arcane Focus and have a fresh set of spell slots.

For your other side, it depends on what you want from the character. If stealth is important, then six levels of Slayer will get you better-than-mindblank protection against most means of detection (the ones not covered by Hide and Darkstalker, at least), and also probably a smattering of useful powers. If Sneak Attack is important, then your current plan probably isn't bad, though you might want more Sneak Attack or more BAB. If versatility is your goal, you could do a lot worse than Binder, which has a good selection of vestiges for save-or-suck, battlefield control, debuff, healing, melee, or blasting.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 03:01 PM
Wizard plus commoner is hideous. Really, anythin with wizard is hideous.

But you know why breaking SR is so useful? Golems are immune to any spell that allows SR. Now, MY spells don't allow SR due to the ability. Ever felt the need to blast a golem or Enervate it? Now you can.

And of course, it's grand with any high SR mobs.

And of course, there's Cunning Dodge. Once per round, you become unkillable by anything that's not a save or die.

1. With the tiny amount of casting a factotum& chameleon gets, blasting is pretty weaksauce.
2. A golem's spell immunity is not the source of its construct traits- the fact that it's a construct is. Debuffs, like enervate or shivering touch, will still fail to hurt it.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 03:05 PM
Don't forget that Chameleons can also take arcane focus. Between the two, they can literally prepare and cast any spell at all, so long as it's 6th level or lower on any class's list. One popular trick with Chameleons, once you can change your focus twice a day (or before then, if you can anticipate an adventure the day before) is to go Divine Focus and cast a bunch of long-duration buff spells, and then switch to Arcane Focus and have a fresh set of spell slots.

Very clever. Would using spell storing weapons be worth it? They'd be like reusable scrolls.


For your other side, it depends on what you want from the character. If stealth is important, then six levels of Slayer will get you better-than-mindblank protection against most means of detection (the ones not covered by Hide and Darkstalker, at least), and also probably a smattering of useful powers. If Sneak Attack is important, then your current plan probably isn't bad, though you might want more Sneak Attack or more BAB. If versatility is your goal, you could do a lot worse than Binder, which has a good selection of vestiges for save-or-suck, battlefield control, debuff, healing, melee, or blasting.

Ooh, psion/slayer would be pretty sweet on the other side. In case I need to, I could nova with some nice psi-abilities. BAB isn't a big concern for me, since I plan on using wraithstrike vs. anything that is heavily armored. If it really comes down to it, I can just get a wand of it.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-06, 03:19 PM
If you plan on warithstrike, get a charge based swift action item, and buy glowstone. You'll NEVER run out of charges, trust me.

Chronos
2008-05-06, 04:54 PM
BAB isn't a big concern for me, since I plan on using wraithstrike vs. anything that is heavily armored.There are plenty of ways to increase your total attack bonus (or equivalently, to decrease your target's AC), but only BAB will increase your number of iterative attacks.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 05:00 PM
I guess divine power is always an option, with enough levels.