Balancing the undead

[quiet1mi]

Hey my friends just got done reading Libor Mortis and now they want to Make a vampre,ghoul ,wight and a mummy party the only problem is....

how do I deal with the fact that one of them can't be in sunlight (can a cloak protect him?), if the hit 0 hp they DIE, bam! turn to dust, and all those immunities plus they do not need to rest?

and due to their initial levels would be spent on monster classes should i just have them do gestalt and one of their classes be the respective monster race?

[monty]

I don't remember off the top of my head, but I believe that there are several items and/or spells that protect vampires from light.

For the dying problem, houserule in some way of raising undead (other than Resurrection-ing them to a living form).

The immunities are fairly well balanced by the LA, but it's up to you. If you think they're too powerful, either raise the LA or take away some of the bonuses.

Gestalt could work, if you're experienced enough to handle the higher power of the characters and can make appropriate challenges. Again, up to you.

[Cuddly]

There are a lot of spells, effects and class abilities out there that specifically target undead. Those immunities come with a lot of baggage.

I recommend seeing who has the lowest ECL, then setting that equal to zero, and going from there.

Hypothetically:
Say a ghoul's ECL = 4, and the vampire = 8. Just reset them to ECL 0 and 4.
Tell the ghoul's player that he makes a level 5 fighter with the ghoul template; the vampire gets to make a level 1 sorcerer with the vampire template.

Assuming no HD are involved. If they are, then take of LA first, then move into subtracting HD.

[TempusCCK]

The only thing that can keep a vampire alive in direct sun light was the amulet (forget the name) from the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft that Strahd had.

so, if you can fanagle one of those, you're alright, but watch out for Paladins, and Clerics, because they'll still kick your diseased, lifeless, malformed shadow of existences butt.

[Nohwl]

im still not happy about libris mortis because it wont let me play a skeleton, a wraith, or any of the cool undead. (id rather be a vampire instead of vampire spawn.) and i cant figure out how to get full casting as one.

[monty]

You could always use Awaken Undead (I think it's in the Spell Compendium, but I'm not sure).

[Nohwl]

thanks, that would have been a good argument to make. ill have to remember it for the next time my group does an evil campaign.

[bosssmiley]

You want customised and playable undead without all the illogic of the Undead creature type? See Tome of Necromancy (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562), the section entitled Becoming Undead.

The same homebrew also contains about a dozen undead flavoured prestige classes (including eeeeeeevil beekeepers :smallbiggrin:).

[Keld Denar]

One baddy in there, I believe it was a Grave-Touched Ghoul, or some kind of ghoul. Really nasty and relatively low HD/LA. I remember suggesting someone play a Hexblade GTG and maxing the hell out of CHA for the synergy. You get the +cha resistance on top of your immunities, you get the cha to your save DCs as well as you your spell casting. You take the Dark Companion ACF from PHBII. You can move your Dark Companion to impose a -2 penalty on saves, then hex with your curse for another -2, then do a charge with the feat that causes fear when you charge for another -2, THEN hit with your paralysing touch. The DC will already be pretty high because you prioritize cha, but then you are adding another potential +6 essentially to the DC. Once they are paralyzed, you can proceed to tear out their throat and feast upon their warm flesh! Mmmmmm, brains!

You could even then take 2 levels of paladin of tyranny from UA to get their aura of dispair for another -2. RAWR!

[Koji]

It's easy to be an undead, just not a vampire. The spell Awaken Undead turns a regular mindless skeleton or zombie into a fully intelligent functional being. And a skeleton has like 1 hit die so that's a great way to go.

[Mr. Friendly]

One baddy in there, I believe it was a Grave-Touched Ghoul, or some kind of ghoul. Really nasty and relatively low HD/LA. I remember suggesting someone play a Hexblade GTG and maxing the hell out of CHA for the synergy. You get the +cha resistance on top of your immunities, you get the cha to your save DCs as well as you your spell casting. You take the Dark Companion ACF from PHBII. You can move your Dark Companion to impose a -2 penalty on saves, then hex with your curse for another -2, then do a charge with the feat that causes fear when you charge for another -2, THEN hit with your paralysing touch. The DC will already be pretty high because you prioritize cha, but then you are adding another potential +6 essentially to the DC. Once they are paralyzed, you can proceed to tear out their throat and feast upon their warm flesh! Mmmmmm, brains!

You could even then take 2 levels of paladin of tyranny from UA to get their aura of dispair for another -2. RAWR!

Wouldn't the Paladin of Tyranny levels also give you your CHA to saves again? (since it is an unnamed bonus)

[Cuddly]

Blackguard would also give you charisma to saves. In fact, all three of those abilities stack, by RAW.

[Keld Denar]

Hmmmm, I don't think Paladin of Tyranny and Blackguard stack, since their abilities are both called Dark Blessing. Either would stack with Hexblade, since that is specifically different in name and mechanic (only applies to saves vs spells, so no bonuses vs poisons, disease, mechanical traps, or falling rocks. Then again, nothing protects you when rocks fall...

[quiet1mi]

how does an awakend zombie or skeleton work?

does it behave like a normal character but with undead immunities and the abilities of the respective starting undead creature?

can zombie take a full round action if awakened?do they gain twice the hit-dice per level gained?Do the characters gain feats at every third hit-dice?would they take class levels?

ahhh sooo many questions? and are they all answered by the spell description?

[Xuincherguixe]

how does an awakend zombie or skeleton work?

does it behave like a normal character but with undead immunities and the abilities of the respective starting undead creature?

can zombie take a full round action if awakened?do they gain twice the hit-dice per level gained?Do the characters gain feats at every third hit-dice?would they take class levels?

ahhh sooo many questions? and are they all answered by the spell description?

Undead Hit Dice are even more painful than regular ones, because while you still get only get one per level, they only count for half as much.


An awakened Skeleton or Zombie would take class levels. Or should if they're at all sane.

[monty]

Awakened undead work just like intelligent undead. Or any other intelligent creature, for that matter. I recommend taking class levels, because more zombie HD would be teh suk.