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View Full Version : Feat: Thrown weapon damage from Int.



Vazzaroth
2008-05-07, 12:28 AM
The feat will basically emulate the Swashbuckler's class feature of 3rd level, but only with thrown weapons. (Or throwing melee weapons like daggers, of course.)

Exacting Throw [GENERAL]
You know how to throw small weapons at important parts of the enemies body and get between armor.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 12, Precise Shot, Spot 6 ranks
Benefit: You apply your Intelligence modifier on thrown small weapons (Daggers, Shuriken, Darts, the DM may rule other small weapons) to damage. This replaces your Strength modifier. This is not usable on creatures immune to sneak attack and critical hits.
Special: A fighter may select Exacting Throw as one of her fighter bonus feats.

I feel that dedicated throwers get easily outshines by Melee and other Ranged people, and don't even start on magic. Especially throwers who don't want to be hulking, Str throwers like a Halfling I am making. Add the fact that most have to enchant a number of magic items whereas the fighter can just invest it all in his greatsword and you have someone being outshined almost all the time. Now, the Master Thrower is a good help, but they are still not anywhere on par with a similarly leveled archer.

Also, if there is a feat that already does this, I'd like to see it.

Edit: This is another Swashbuckler ability I'd like... but even I think it may be overpowered in feat form.

Weakening Toss [GENERAL]
Your blades puncture arteries and muscles, crippling the strongest of foe.
Prerequisites: Dex 21, Base attack +10, Exacting Throw
Benefit: When you score critical hits with a thrown small weapon, you deal 1 point of Strength damage. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this effect.
Special: A fighter may select Weakening Toss as one of her
fighter bonus feats.

This is toned down from the Swash's 2 points of Str on crits. They get it at 14th though, so this is also able to be taken a little earlier.

TheLogman
2008-05-07, 05:42 AM
Non-Epic feats can't have requirements for ability scores beyond 17 I think, so that second one would be an epic spell.

Danzaver
2008-05-07, 05:53 AM
I can see why int-based throws make sense form a numbers-perspective, as in, filling a gap in balance, but similar to the swashbuckler's class ability, I just don't think it makes any sense, logically.

I'm sorry I can't be any help to you, but I just don't get it.

Vazzaroth
2008-05-07, 08:42 AM
Non-Epic feats can't have requirements for ability scores beyond 17 I think, so that second one would be an epic spell.

Greater Two Weapon Fighting requires a Dexterity of 19.

And I think it doesn't make any more or less sense than the Swashbuckler's ability which says: "a swashbuckler becomes able to place her finesse attacks where they deal greater damage."

At least I offered up the idea that you know a little about anatomy and armor as reasoning.

Danzaver
2008-05-07, 10:10 AM
Well yes, I have had a think about it, and maybe the swashbuckler's one does make a little sense.

I do train in swordfighting a lot, I am the president of a medieval swordfighting organisation, and although I am hardly the best fighter there, i have been in a lot of swordfights over the last 6-7 years.

Fighting smart does work. You can assess what you opponent doesn't like you doing (for me - i don't like it when people stand still. I work best when they are moving and attacking), you can notice ticks about their style, their strengths, how sure their balance and footing is, whether you are better off keeping them at arm's length or closing, and so on.

So for the melee attacks it makes sense.

As for ranged, if it were my game, I would say that no amount of knowledge of armour and anatomy is going to replace good old fashioned strength and dexterity. There are so many less options to fight smart with a thrown weapon.

However, this is a game that is only one or two steps removed from a computer game in its current incarnation. There are heaps of things in it that make even less sense were you to apply them to reality.

So your feat is not inconceivable.


(oh and RE: epic feats - Blindsight 5' Radius requires Wis 19)


EDIT: Lawl - "weakening toss". >.> <.< >.>; ok that's enough out of me XD

Vazzaroth
2008-05-07, 10:50 AM
Weakening Strike is just another Swash ability. I just changed it to Toss. Are you thinking of puke? :smalleek:

Just to note, this does not replace Dex in the least. You still rely on Dex for attack. This only adds to damage.

And as far as realism or w/e goes... look at some of the other feat. With feats, we have people getting an attack off at up to 8 (16 I think with reach) people within the span of 6 seconds, archers who can fire two+ arrows in the same amount of time accurately, something I've tried and heard many others try, it always ends either in failure or really, really bad shooting. And don't even get me started on the non-mundane and non-core feats. (Arcane strike?)

The point is, just because you may or may not be able to do something IRL, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in DnD.

Danzaver
2008-05-08, 07:51 AM
Yes, I agree, it's not a very realistic combat system, but in my game I try to do what I can to make it more so.

My criticism is only really relevant if you place realism above game balance. If you don't and you have a player/character who throws stuff and is being disadvantaged, then by all means, go for it.

Personally, I would be more inclined to use the oldest DM excuse in the book "maybe it's magical" to explain it. Ideally, i'd give it to a psion or psychic warrior. I just don't think you could make a thrown weapon do more damage just by being smarter unless there was some kind of additional force at play.

This is basically what I would say to a player of mine who suggested this feat to me, but you're not my player, so if you think it is justified, go for it. :smallwink:

Chokuto
2008-05-10, 06:46 AM
Weakening Strike is just another Swash ability. I just changed it to Toss. Are you thinking of puke? :smalleek:

Just to note, this does not replace Dex in the least. You still rely on Dex for attack. This only adds to damage.

And as far as realism or w/e goes... look at some of the other feat. With feats, we have people getting an attack off at up to 8 (16 I think with reach) people within the span of 6 seconds, archers who can fire two+ arrows in the same amount of time accurately, something I've tried and heard many others try, it always ends either in failure or really, really bad shooting. And don't even get me started on the non-mundane and non-core feats. (Arcane strike?)

The point is, just because you may or may not be able to do something IRL, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in DnD.

In all actuality, I believe that replacing dex with int would be more balanced than tacking int onto damage... but I could be wrong.

Also, I'm not going to try to argue IRL against DnD, but I believe that when thinking up a new feat, its best to start with a RL incident and build from there, not to start with mechanics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing when you made this feat you were thinking, "hmmmm, how can thrown weapons deal more damage?" This is probably the wrong approach.

However, I believe that what you came up with is realitivly balanced, and makes sense to me. Int is supposed to repesent general ability to formulate logic and etc. as well as just knowledge, and I could see it as a Character's ability to second guess the reactionary moves of the target, and adjust accordingly.

Okay, so that's my two cents worth!:smallbiggrin: