View Full Version : Warrior-types increasing damage dice?

2008-05-09, 03:51 PM
In one of those billions of Monk-discussions, someone brought up how it's stupid that while Monk gets more proficient with his Unarmed Strike, it's stupid how other melee classes don't get any damage increases by the level; no matter their skill in wielding a weapon, their damage is pretty much the same. Now, sure you could claim that "you get extra BAB that you can convert into Power Attack", but Power Attack is a feat that represents longer arcs and more "acceleration" behind the hit at the cost of accuracy, so I don't think it really works to show how your more deft strikes come from the correct angles to pierce further and hit the critical points more commonly.

This lead me to think there should be some constant damage increase for melee types, which in turn lead me to work on some way to make a constant damage increase without arbitrary tables and one that doesn't require remaking each and every melee class. While at it, I also wanted to reward full BAB classesby giving them something and 1/4th BAB classes that cheat don't get. This lead me to devising the following system:

"Every 5 levels you take in a full BAB class, the effective size of any weapon you wield increases by 1. These increases stack with increases from any other sources, and with each other. Every level in a 3/4th BAB class counts as a level towards these increases and every level in BAB class counts as a 1/4th level towards these increases.

Therefore, a straight Fighter would recieve 4 size increases over his career, a straight Rogue would recieve 2 and a straight Wizard would recieve 1 on level 20. Multiclasses characters obviously add these bonuses together. Temporary BAB, such as Divine Power, does not confer these bonuses."

What do you think? I find it quite elegant and simple enough. It also serves other goals:
-It makes weapon base damage matter. This is something that simply gets lost in the flurry of bonuses come midlevels. Those Power Attackers, Skirmishers, Sneak Attackers, ability stackers and even weapon boosters simply don't care if their base weapon damage is 1d4 or 2d6 damage, since the average damage difference there is just 4.5, which is almost completely insignificant when dealing 50+ damage with each hit. With Weapon Size multiplied, more damaging weapons get more leverage out of it.

-It favours full BAB classes. They tend to get the short end of the stick in everything, especially without ToB. This would give you more incentive towards taking levels in those classes, and would actually make that level 10 Fighter able to face off with a Giant like he should be able to.

-It gives melee types some exponential progression, much like the spell progression the casters get. While every increase is just one size category, every size category is an exponential increase as opposed to a linear one.

-It gives you a nice incentive to go 20 levels in full BAB classes for the last size increase.

I only wish the last increase would come a bit earlier in the progression, but every 4 levels sounds a bit too fast. Maybe every 4 levels beyond first... Then it'd be level 17, just like when Wizards get 9th level spells.

2008-05-11, 05:15 PM
I was playing with a similar idea. I definitely approve, I'm not really qualified to crunche the numbers to see if it's stastically on par with a caster, but it looks okay.

2008-05-13, 12:26 AM
I disagree with this.

The only thing I see wrong with Monks damage increase is that it dissuades them from using weapons at later levels.

A Straight Fighter is just as effective of a melee combatant as a monk is, in fact he's better. He can add +4 damage and +accuracy on an weapon he likes due to feats that are available only to him. Which is the equivalent of a class feature except he doesn't HAVE to take it, giving him versatility. A fighter without power attack doing a full attack action against an opponent will again and again out damage a Monk with flurry of blows, and hit more often as well. Besides, monks increased unarmed damage does not derive from their increased skill in unarmed, but more-so from their transcendence to another plane of being, which is why at 20th the gain the outsider type. Increased weapon size based on BAB seems foolish. The already have feats and Magic items for those people who want to wield Huge weapons. I see these changes getting out of hand really fast.

2008-05-13, 03:38 AM
While Fighters, and their closely related classes could certainly use a boost, Monks could use that boost even more.

(Though my personal opinion is that Monks make more sense as a Fighter Variant anyways, but that's a neither here nor there)

What makes a Fighter weak isn't that it doesn't do enough damage. It's that it doesn't have very many good options other than doing damage.

More battlefield control, or support options are what a Fighter fix could use.