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Bago!!!
2008-05-09, 10:44 PM
Hello ladies and gents!

Bago!!! here, and I have this group of adventurers about ready to go up against this awesome boss! I have him all figured out in my head, the style, the theme.... The problem is... I have NO idea which spells to give him!

The theme for this guy is a Melee 12th level sorcerer who still adds a bit of combat flair into the mix. The setting of the adventure takes place in Iron Kingdoms which means GUNS and Steam jacks, and the boss is a Nyss Elf (Winter elves). The basic premise of his spells is to give him an edge over others, Make quick work of foes with sword and ice, protect himself from his own Ice spells, and have good escape options. Mobility is also good!

Where the adventurers will fight this here fellow... In the woods away from civilization. The Sorcerer has the Battle Sorcerer varient, adding to his melee and range combat and his durability while sacrificing spells known and available. Another thought is going for the Animal Companion Varient, which replaces his familiar.


The members of the group is a Gobber (goblin) Bodger, a Trollkin Barbarian/Fell Caller/ Fighter, human (Ryn) Gunmage, human (Thurian) Rogue/Fighter/Pistoleer, Dwarven Rogue/Roof Jumper, Iosan (elf) Cleric, and a human (Kossite) Ranger/Rifleman.
So yeah, can anyone please help me with some spells to use that will fit this elf warrior?

Reel On, Love
2008-05-09, 11:04 PM
Greater Blink (SpC) is a hardcore defensive spell. Same with Greater Mirror Image (PHB II) which has the advantage of being an immediate action. In fact, take several swift/immediate-action spells--you need to make the most out of your actions. If you like melee, take Bladeweave to potentially daze your enemies, and take Steeldance (both SpC)--combine Steeldance with Ring of Blades or whatever it's called for style; use big swords for the Steeldance.

Whirling Blade (SpC) makes a good combination with Arcane Strike and Power Attack, especially with a Lesser Rod of Sculpt Spell.

Take a flight spell. Use Wind Wall to protect against projectiles.

Use Solid Fog or Freezing Fog to deny people actions.

Having a familiar and taking Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability as your sixth-level spell will let you get more spells/round off, which is pretty vital against that many PCs. If you get into melee with a bunch of them, you'll go down very fast. However, that means you won't get Bite of the Werebear. Probably still worth it; it can trap people in walls and webs and fogs for you.

Bago!!!
2008-05-09, 11:13 PM
Greater Blink and Greater Mirror Image..... What makes them better than their weaker counter parts out of curiosity? I unfortuneatly have no PHBII on me right now.

But ring of blades is a Ranger spell.... isn't?

Freezing fog? BRILLIANT!!!! What level is it?

I have thought about wind wall, but isn't that stationary? And I am pretty sure it won't deflect bullets 100 % of the time. Maybe 30% but not 100.

Wow.... I never thought familiars could be so useful!

AmberVael
2008-05-09, 11:22 PM
Weeeell...
Note that my recommendations are not necessarily optimized, but should fit the theme well enough.

Spell Compendium
Blades of Fire, but change them to be cold.
The Orb of Cold spells would work nicely.
Ice dagger is a minor area spell that fits.
Persistant Blade can help with flanking, deals force damage, and is a nasty little level one spell that I highly recommend taking just because it is so fun to use.
Ice Knife.
Daggerspell Stance (which, in my opinion, is pretty bad, but meh)
Body of the Sun turned to deal cold damage would be fun for a melee type sorcerer.
If you have a good ranged attack roll, Icelance can be nasty in terms of stunning + damage.
Weapon of Energy
Freezing Fog (Which is 6th level)
Brilliant Blade...
Sword of Deception.

Hmm...

From Complete Mage, I entirely recommend Arcane Fusion, though with so few spells known as a Battle Sorcerer it might not be worth it.

From Frostburn, assuming you avoid the Shivering Touch evil, you could get Gelid Blood, which is a very good anti-spellcaster spell.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-09, 11:32 PM
Greater Blink and Greater Mirror Image..... What makes them better than their weaker counter parts out of curiosity? I unfortuneatly have no PHBII on me right now.
Greater blink gives all things attacking you a 50% miss chance (well, except the ones that hit ethereal enemies), and doesn't give your attacks a miss chance.

Greater Mirror Image is an immediate action to cast, which is awesome (better than quickened Mirror Image, for just two levels higher than the regular spell), and it adds an image every round up to the maximum.


But ring of blades is a Ranger spell.... isn't?
If that's not it, there's another similar one. In the SpC; it surrounds you with whirling blades that deal damage. It's stylish but not very effective, so it's low-priority.


Freezing fog? BRILLIANT!!!! What level is it?
6th, unfortunately. But it's basically Solid Fog plus a Grease effect plus some cold damage each round. Combine with Web for extra goodies.


I have thought about wind wall, but isn't that stationary? And I am pretty sure it won't deflect bullets 100 % of the time. Maybe 30% but not 100.
It's stationary, yeah, but under heavy fire...


Wow.... I never thought familiars could be so useful!
IFwSA single-handedly redeems them. It's like a bunch of Quickens for a single spell slot.

I'd suggest avoiding Battle Sorc entirely if you weren't focused on melee, fo the extra spells.

Bago!!!
2008-05-09, 11:32 PM
Vael: Oooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh..... Sweet! No idea what most do except from what the name says but they certainly intrigue me and hold promise.


Whats Gelid Blood and what does Arcane Fusion do?


Before I forget, shadow spells and teleportation spells are a bad thing to bring into this battle. In Iron Kingdoms, to use teleportation magic usually ends up bringing a extra pasanger who happens to be an infernal lawyer. Plus, most necromancy spells and really EVIL spells actuelly hurt in Iron Kingdoms. Like, REALLY, hurt.

Just saying that for future stuff.



Reel on, Love: Greater Blink is a really neat spell! Unfortunately, I dunno how that would work in this, since there is no ethereal realm. Greater Mirror Image is just plain cool.

Ring of blades does sound like a neat spell, not really incredible but still has an awesome COOLness factor!

6th you say... darn... oh well, from the mere sounds of it its just awesome and may be worth it. And web on top of it? I can just imagine the chaos that would insue.

True... heavy fire would be necessary.


That changes my entire view on familiars now!

The Sandman
2008-05-09, 11:34 PM
Do you have access to Frostburn? I think the following spells from that book would be perfect for your sorceror:

Ice Shield (lvl4): DR 15/- for 1 minute/level, can take 10 pts. of damage per caster level up to 150 pts of damage

Heartfreeze (lvl6): If target makes Fort save, they take 5d8 pts of cold damage. If they fail the Fort save, they die in 1d3+2 rounds unless someone makes a DC 26 caster level check while using a healing spell or effect on the victim.

Gelid Blood (lvl5): If target makes Fort save, they take a -2 penalty to AC, attack rolls, Strength and Dex checks, and a 25% chance of arcane spell failure for anything with a somatic component. If they fail the save, the penalties become -4 and 50%.

Blood Snow (lvl3): You corrupt a 20 sq.ft. area of snow with negative energy. For the duration of the spell, any creature in its radius must make a Fort save or take 1d2 points of Constitution drain. Any creature that fails a save is nauseated for the duration of the spell.

Obscuring Snow (lvl2): Lasts for 1 hour/level, covers a 30 ft. radius from you in all directions (including above), remains centered on caster for duration. All sight, including darkvision, obscured beyond 5 ft. Creatures 5ft away have concealment and creatures farther away than that have total concealment. The spell can be dispersed more quickly by strong winds or fireballs.

Shivering Touch (lvl3): On successful melee touch attack, deal 3d6 points of Dexterity damage; duration is 1 round/level.

These are just some of the highlights; there are a bunch of other nice spells in that book too.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-09, 11:37 PM
I forgot about Arcane Fusion. Taking it will let you get more action efficiency.

Take Ray of Enfeeblement; describe it as a weakening chill.

DO NOT take Shivering Touch, it is broken.

AmberVael
2008-05-09, 11:48 PM
Just to get this out there, so people will think about it when suggesting spells...
Battle Sorcerer Spells Known (at level 12)
{table=head]Level|0|1|2|3|4|5|6
Number|8|4|4|3|2|1|1[/table]
It's really pretty limited...

Bago!!!
2008-05-09, 11:59 PM
Reel On, Love: The thought has crossed my mind, yes. But enfeeblement in this campeign setting does damage to the caster when cast.

Simply look at it makes me afriad to touch it! Sweet idea, but still!

And could someone please tell me what Arcane Fusion does?


The Sandman: Ohhh.... Heartfreeze is a nasty piece of work! That would make the healer go through great pains just to heal that, quite literally since healing magic also causes some damage, nonlethal of course.

Ice Shield also looks neat and very useful!

Gelid Blood just looks overall Useful!

Obscuring Snow also fits the theme very nicely.

Blood Snow seems like a heavy necromancy spell... is it?


Vael: Yes, very limiting, but all things considered, I think a trade with spells known and spells use for d8 hit die, average attack, light armor and weapons pretty good when guns are in the mix.

AmberVael
2008-05-10, 12:04 AM
Also, to give explanations of some of my suggested spells:

Blades of Fire is a very good 1st level spell for you. Swift action, 1 round duration. Adds 1d8 fire damage to all your weapon attacks. (Change it to cold, as I said)

The Orbs of Cold are a ranged touch attack that deals a good bit of damage and bypasses SR. there are two versions- lesser and normal. Lesser deals a max of 5d8 damage and is level 1, the normal one is level 4, deals a max of 15d8, and possibly blinds the target.

Ice Dagger is a level one spell that deals 5d4 max damage to one creature, and 1 damage to all those around it (works like a splash weapon). They get no save, so it is pretty good.

Persistent Blade is a level one spell that makes a dagger out of force. You tell it to attack someone, and it does. It also provides flanking bonuses.

Ice Knife is a very long range spell that works on a ranged attack, if it hits it deals 2d8 cold and 2 dex damage. If it misses it shatters in an area attack that deals 1d8 cold.

Body of the Sun is an emanation that deals fire damage to anyone nearby you. Change it to deal cold, have fun. Maxes out at 5d4. Level 2. Good stuff. Lasts 1 round a level, so that can deal damage while you chop at things. I'd recommend taking it.

Ice lance deals 6d8 cold damage on a ranged attack, then stuns the enemy for 1d4 rounds. Level 3.

Weapon of Energy. Level 3. Deals an extra d6 of whatever energy you choose, basically.

Brilliant Blade. Level 6. Gives your weapon the Brilliant Energy Quality for a while, and thus you can ignore armor.

Sword of Deception is kind of like Persistent Blade, but it is level 4. It attacks like a longsword, but when it hits the creature takes a -2 to its next save (this can accumulate with each hit up to -5). Very handy. If you get this, get Arcane Fusion and use it with Persistent Blade to fill the room with swords. Quite fun. ^-^

Edit: Arcane Fusion is a level five spell that allows you to cast a level 1 and a level 4 spell as one action without using up any slots besides the fifth level slot. Sorcerer only.

Starsinger
2008-05-10, 12:09 AM
Just a suggestion, I tend to make my villains gestalt even if the game is not gestalt already. As it toughens them up some without seriously over levelling them. Which means you could do a Full BAB class//Sorcerer and allow him to cast spells in armor, which would suit your wants without hurting your spells known via battle sorcerer. Just a suggestion.

Bago!!!
2008-05-10, 12:16 AM
Vael: That blade spell would certainly fit well, and is pretty useful.

Ice Dagger could be useful, as could the Orb Spells, depending on their range.

Ice Knife, just plain awesome!

Persistant blade is interesting, I personally prefer the Sword of deception over it though.

Body of the sun could be very useful.

Ice lance, AWESOMENESS!

Weapon of energy sounds like a good before combat buff.

Brilliant blade... dunno about that one. I'll have to read up on Brilliant blade in general.

Just plain awesome ideas!


Starsinger: Now theres an idea. Dunno though if I wanna be that mean to the players though. Still, a very interesting idea to think about for this boss and future bosses.... Thank you very much for the suggestion!

AmberVael
2008-05-10, 12:21 AM
The advantage of Persistent Blade is that it is so low level. Using it in conjunction with Sword of Deception can be really hindering for enemies.

Also- you should probably have a way to Quicken some spells. Either use the variant to drop your familiar in exchange for instant metamagic a few times per day, or get the feat that does it (Rapid Metamagic).

It would also be in your interests to get something like Easy Metamagic for Quicken.

Bago!!!
2008-05-10, 12:23 AM
I know almost nothing about sorcerers and Metamagic feats. Where is this varient from?

And whats Easy Metamagic?

AmberVael
2008-05-10, 12:26 AM
Essentially, while Sorcerers can use metamagic, they need to expend an extra action to apply it.

Players Handbook II has the variant that drops your familiar and gives you instant metamagic a few times per day.
Rapid Casting simply does away with the need for an extra action entirely.

Easy Metamagic decreases the spell level adjustment by one. Normally Quicken spell adds on four levels to the slot required- so if you got Easy Metamagic (Quicken Spell) it would only add on three.

It is from a Dragon magazine.

Bago!!!
2008-05-10, 12:29 AM
I dunno if that varient would be worth losing the now useful familiar....

Does that mean a sorcer knows a metamagic spell or that he/she can just cast one of their lower spells as a metamagic spell taking up the daily allotment from the appropiate spell slot?

Kurald Galain
2008-05-10, 04:39 AM
The main problem with having a BBEG against a party is that the latter has (far) more actions per round. There are essentially three ways around that, and there's no reason why you shouldn't use all three simultaneously. (1) a bunch of mooks, summoned or no; (2) battlefield control, so that not all PCs can attack you at once; and (3) swift action spells.

There have been a few good suggestions of (3) already; if you're not doing anything with your BBEG's swift action in a round, You're Doing It Wrong. The PHB2 has quite a lot of swift spells; there's also a few fun things like Hesitate (cast during an enemy's turn, he must make a will save now or he won't be able to attack you for a few rounds) and Electric vengeance (when an enemy hits you, hit him back).

Also, this is probably obvious, but the BBEG needs to have good defenses (some spell resistance and miss chance are nice), as well as high defense or outright immunity to the party's save-or-lose effects. Nothing spoils a climatic fight than failing a will save on your first round and getting paralyzed for the remainder of combat. This includes grappling, by the way, so giving him freedom-of-movement somehow is probably a must.

And, with so many gun-based PCs, it could be fun to give the BBEG a few levels in Wild Mage, for the Random Deflector ability.

Bago!!!
2008-05-10, 10:56 AM
Kurald Galain: Good point. But I've always considered this guy a stand alone guy, aside from his familiar. But then again, maybe he could have a few mercs. Battlefield control is a must, of course. Swift actions spells, really nice!

As for the wild mage, that probally won't be on the list. The setting doesn't have Wild Magic. But there is a spell that would reduce damage fromt he gun effects. Protection of Arrows can protect the caster from any mundane projectiles, which is sweet!

Grapples! I totally forgot about that! The ultimate way to lose is to be caught in a grapple with the parties' Barb!

Thank you for all these fine points.