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quiet1mi
2008-05-10, 12:57 PM
when making a character that starts off as a vampire spawn[using the liber mortis progression] do i pick a race to start off as...

and if i pick a race [such as human] do i get the bonus feat and skills..

if so would that make the elf [as a base race] ridiculously good , because when your undead you have no constitutuion score, so the elves really receive no penalty for their bonus to spot, listen,search and dexterity. likewise would that make the dwarves really bad [their bonus is the now useless constitution ]

UglyPanda
2008-05-10, 01:53 PM
You misspelled Libris Mortis.

You pick a race, you get its abilities on top of the monster class. This does indeed mean it is better to be an Elven Vampire than a Dwarven Vampire.

The Rose Dragon
2008-05-10, 02:04 PM
You don't pick a race. All Vampire Spawn have the same stats, regardless of their race while they're living. Effectively, Vampire Spawn is their race.

UglyPanda
2008-05-10, 02:27 PM
One method of using these classes is to begin play as a 1st-level
undead character. To do so, follow the normal steps for creating
a starting character, including the selection of a race (such as
human or dwarf). Remember that even though you’re playing a
ghoul or vampire spawn, you were something else before that,
and that something else is represented by your race.

Races: Vampire spawn come from all humanoid races. They
tend to be more common among the civilized races—including
humans, elves, and half-elves—than the savage tribal races. That
said, the ferocity of a half-orc or gnoll vampire spawn is indeed
something to be reckoned with.

Speed: A vampire spawn’s base land speed is the same as that
of the base race.

Vampire is a template, not a race. A monster class is a template that's added over several levels.

Collin152
2008-05-10, 02:39 PM
Vampire is a template,

Vampire Spawn isn't, though.
I don't see why it isn't, but it isn't.

OzymandiasVolt
2008-05-10, 04:45 PM
Collin152 is correct. Vampire Spawn is not a template.

The Necroswanso
2008-05-10, 05:07 PM
Are you using vampire spawn, or the half vampire? It would seriously suck to be a vampire spawn; aren't they usually subjugated by vampires?

And Ugly Panda is correct. It's Librus Mortis, not Liber Mortus... We're not riping off Danzig songs....Though we should be.

OzymandiasVolt
2008-05-10, 05:17 PM
A It's Librus Mortis, not Liber Mortus...

The cover of the book says Libris Mortis.

Collin152
2008-05-10, 05:17 PM
Are you using vampire spawn, or the half vampire? It would seriously suck to be a vampire spawn; aren't they usually subjugated by vampires?

And Ugly Panda is correct. It's Librus Mortis, not Liber Mortus... We're not riping off Danzig songs....Though we should be.

Librus?
I thought it was Libris.
I'm pretty sure it's latin for scale, though.
Librum is book, isn't it?
Libra is scale...

Illiterate Scribe
2008-05-10, 05:24 PM
Nah, 'liber' is book. WotC just has bad Latin skills.

Our group calls it η Βιβλος η του θανατου, but we're just cool like that.

senrath
2008-05-10, 05:31 PM
Nah, 'liber' is book. WotC just has bad Latin skills.

Our group calls it η Βιβλος η του θανατου, but we're just cool like that.

Which is why I've heard it called "Libris Mortis: The Book of Bad Latin" somewhere. Can't remember where, though.

Cirigan
2008-05-10, 05:33 PM
when making a character that starts off as a vampire spawn[using the liber mortis progression] do i pick a race to start off as...

and if i pick a race [such as human] do i get the bonus feat and skills..

if so would that make the elf [as a base race] ridiculously good , because when your undead you have no constitutuion score, so the elves really receive no penalty for their bonus to spot, listen,search and dexterity. likewise would that make the dwarves really bad [their bonus is the now useless constitution ]

okay so from what i've read(which is the entire section on vampire spawn, both arguements given are true, for the perpose of ability mod they are a seperate race

Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Str, +2 Cha, Con —.
Darkvision: Vampire spawn can see in the dark out to 60 feet.
+2 racial bonus on Bluff checks. Vampire spawn are very
persuasive.
+2 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. Vampire
spawn are quiet and sneaky.
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot
checks. Vampire spawn are very perceptive.
Vampire Spawn Weaknesses: Vampire spawn are vulnerable
to all attacks and effects that repel or slay vampires. See Vampire
Weaknesses, page 253 of the Monster Manual.
Automatic Languages: Common.
Favored Class: Vampire spawn.

but their are still a few things that are from the base creature, such as the speed

but i do see the logistics of this question, do you place the ability adjustment for the base creature first or what? my recommendation is to cunsult your DM for his/her definition of this, cause what the dm says goes

The Necroswanso
2008-05-10, 05:37 PM
Librus?
I thought it was Libris.
I'm pretty sure it's latin for scale, though.
Librum is book, isn't it?
Libra is scale...

Curse my poor spelling!
Anwyay, it is Libris.
However it's WoTC's bad latin that makes it so. It's indeed supposed to be Librum Morits, atleast that's what my old pastor told me. Aaah Bruce, 34, missing half of his ring finger due to machine cleaning accident and D&D playing pastor... He owned a chopper and listened to heavy metal.

quiet1mi
2008-05-10, 06:45 PM
okay so from what i've read(which is the entire section on vampire spawn, both arguements given are true, for the perpose of ability mod they are a seperate race


but their are still a few things that are from the base creature, such as the speed

but i do see the logistics of this question, do you place the ability adjustment for the base creature first or what? my recommendation is to cunsult your DM for his/her definition of this, cause what the dm says goes

I am the Dm... my problem is i just do not know...

quiet1mi
2008-05-10, 06:54 PM
would it make the undead classes too powerful if i allow the racial abilities on top of what the racial class gives you?

[an elven vampire spawn 1 would have +2 str,+2 dex,+2 cha, the blood drain ability, proficiency with the elven things,+2 on spot,listen,and search]

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-05-10, 07:08 PM
Ugly Panda is correct and has quoted most of the relevant rules.

Page 34 even has an example and the intro on page 38 provides further information.

You need to choose a base race and apply any racial adjustments from that before applying the effects from your first level in the monster class.

Swooper
2008-05-10, 07:52 PM
Actually, its name does not mean 'the book of the dead' and it's not supposed to. It means 'from the book of the dead' and is correct as such as far as I know. Librum is the nominative of book, libris is the ablative (or was it dative? I'm getting rusty). I think this is even stated in a fluff sidebar on one of the first pages.

Edit: Page 4.

mabriss lethe
2008-05-10, 11:10 PM
As written, they're pretty neat monster classes. I'd hate to start one out as a 1st level character, though.

Closet_Skeleton
2008-05-11, 12:42 PM
I don't know about latin, I only know that Games Workshop used 'Liber Mortis' in a book I read at least 8 years before Wizards of the Coast brought this book out so 'Libris Mortis' always sounded wrong to me.