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Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-10, 10:31 PM
First off, an introductory link, here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80155

Now, as the last few pages show, the idea of making a new system that is like a hybrid of the various D&D editions came to mind.

Now, this has mutated. Instead of simply a distillation, the aim is different.

What we want to aim for, now, is to craft an entirely new High fantasy system. In that cathegory, D&D is suprisingly alone. It's about time somebody tries to compete. The system will be much like the basic idea of D&D was intended to be: Princesses trapped in towers, Good over Evil, and magic. Magic EVERYWHERE. Swarming the place, becoming a substitute and replacement for technology.

Right now, what we are looking for is designers. People with a knack for inventing rules and fixing broken ones. Here, you can apply for a position of designer for this new game. Credentials, AKA fixes you have made, are not required, but EXTREMELY recommended. Additionally, all applicants will be subjected to a personalized test to test their skill at design. You will get to participate in many of the great and important decision, such as deciding which stats we'll use, what kind of dice and the number that will be required, and more.

That is all. Best of luck,

Azerian K.


PS: Thanks to: Rutee, Reel on, Love for pointing out that we were aiming to low. Wouldn't be doing this without you, guys. :smallwink:

EvilElitest
2008-05-10, 10:33 PM
dude, your getting ahead of yoru self. Calm down, we need to sort out an organization first before you recruit. Make goals, figure out how this is going to be organized, ect.
from
EE

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-10, 10:42 PM
Indeed, we HAVE to goals pointed out. We want a system which succeeds where D&D failed, which allows easily crafted stories of epic class, without gaping holes in the design, and an appropriate take on what are the effects of the things that D&D has that the real world lacks, such as magic, dragons, an all consuming void, or madness embodied.

But before we set the crunchy bits, we need other opinions. As much fun as it is, a tyranny results in disaster. What we need is several people, commenting on each other's ideas and providing their own.

Starsinger
2008-05-10, 11:02 PM
I believe, what he's trying to say, in the words of one of the sagest fictional characters ever... "Easy now,
Hush, love, hush,
Don't distress yourself,
What's your rush?
Keep your thoughts
Nice and lush,
Wait."

But, on that note, I'd love to help out in some way.

Jack Zander
2008-05-10, 11:08 PM
I'd love to help, but I'm already a few steps ahead of you guys with my gaming group's homebrew system. We're in the playtesting stage already. I'll be glad to steal any good ideas of yours that I see though.

UserClone
2008-05-11, 01:27 PM
I'd love to contribute. I fancy myself a better editor/proofreader/playtester than an initial designer, but with a very specific goal in mind (i.e., take some of the randomness out of skill use and add some flexibility to the skills) I can get pretty creative.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out upfront that in my experience, a game ends up working better with a specific setting in mind first, rather than trying to do everything High Fantasy related.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-11, 01:42 PM
I'd love to contribute. I fancy myself a better editor/proofreader/playtester than an initial designer, but with a very specific goal in mind (i.e., take some of the randomness out of skill use and add some flexibility to the skills) I can get pretty creative.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out upfront that in my experience, a game ends up working better with a specific setting in mind first, rather than trying to do everything High Fantasy related.

We have an idea for the setting.

See, anyway you look at it, most high fantasies don't deal with the big effects of magic. Sure, we have wizard squadrons in armies, or maybe steampunk zeppelins...

But why does no one think of permanent, at will items of Create Food and Water, or Purify Food and Drink? What about of Teleportation Circles for transporting an army from one place to another? Or Elementals for cheap laborers? That's the idea that the default setting aims for, a world where magic actually takes the place of technology and has an equal or greater impact.

UserClone
2008-05-11, 01:45 PM
Also, I think we should rip off Pathfinder RPGs of a couple things, first being the XP tables. Having different xp tables could potentially let you have multiclassing in the style of 2E, with the MCers using one of the higher tables.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-11, 01:59 PM
Possibly. I'm thinking that multiclassing should either require a sacrifice (Either in gold or power) and allow double advancement, or have some way of compensating for the lack of superpowers to avoid multiclassing being useless at high levels.

Oslecamo
2008-05-11, 02:08 PM
Hmm, first I would sugest that you delay this project a month or so to give time for 4e to see 4e from one point to the other.

Second, I ask you this. Is technology everywhere? Does everybody in the world has computers and cars and cellphones and supermarkets to their needs?

Or those privileges are kept just for an elite section of the population while the remaining "commoners" worck their asses off the old way, dying and living like rats because the elite is too busy geting themselves newer and shinier technology instead of spreading their old technology to the non elite guys?

Magic is just like that. If someone is strong enough to cast high level spells, he probably doesn't give a damn about the simple mortals who die everyday due to hunger and regular sickness. He's too busy:

1-Making sure nobody else "steals" his magic.
2-Developing even bigger and shinier magic.

So, please, keep the farmers worcking the old way and people having to travel by foot. Maybe one or two elite cities where everything is run by magic, but for the rest of the world they just can't afford to pay casters to to cast those spells for them.

Maybe I'll help. If I have the time. Don't count me as a regular poster for this.

Behold_the_Void
2008-05-11, 02:14 PM
I happened to attend a panel with some game developers last year and they pointed out that Dungeons and Dragons owns a good 99% of the fantasy tabletop market, and there are actually a bunch of other systems that are viciously competing for that last 1%. You might want to try going in something of a different direction, the D&D franchise, whether you like it or not, is pretty huge in that particular niche and is difficult to break. I see you're talking technology too, but Eberron (still D&D) does have that covered, so you'll really want to do something unique and interesting.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-11, 02:53 PM
As said above, Eberron IS a preatty neat attempt, but it fails at addresing the basest concepts. It doesn't take much more than an altruistic mid level caster for half the world's economy to be shot down in flames. Magical trains are nice, but knowing what happens when people no longer have to break their back farming, or digging, is much more interesting. THAT is the kind of thing that is most important to answer. D&D is like high magic seen with a LoTR viewpoint, not high magic as seen through a "How far can we get?" view.

Behold: Actually, D&D isn't that big. It owns the biggest market share (60% at a minimum), but it isn't omniscient and all powerful, that's just wishful thinking. Plus, the plan, at least at first, is not a commercial system. Maybe later on, but right now, what we aim for is simply making a system that represents high fantasy and high magic accurrately, and in a balanced fashion (Think of Conan: Up it a notch, or think of LoTR and up it two notches. That's what we're aiming for.), both things at which D&D has made some pretty big mistakes.

Osle: The world is not A Song of Ice and Fire. There ARE altruistic and good people in power. The kind that tries to make things better for everyone, so don't think that commoners will be in such a bad position.


And plus, I'm not trying to think every wizard as a paranoid Batman. In the grand scheme of things, those are specks of dust in the wind, since they're paranoia stops them from affecting anything.

EvilElitest
2008-05-11, 03:09 PM
Alright, here is my fear

My fear is that we will be like the Whites to the Reds during the Russian Civil War (no, i'm not saying WotC is Soviet, just a comparison). Lots of people, lots of ideas going around, but no organization, not unification, everybody has their own idea about what is best and is going with that

What we need is to first find out not just want we want, but some of the essential changes needed and why? This should be a logical reform, with a 95 thesis and all. First we need to get some thinkers on this project. People who don't just play the game, then understand the game. They know how the system works. Really, you need to think rather in depth about the game.

I encourage reform, and i like the idea about taking stuff from all 4 editions and making something great, but in order to do that right, this needs to be well planned.

And i commit a coup, i am in charge of recruiting for now, or at least should have a say.
/coup
from
EE
P.S.
nicely don't Star

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-11, 03:14 PM
I understand the fear, EE. We know how Russia ended.

But that will not happen here. See, this thread is for taking applications. Later, we'll craft interviews to test the skill of all the applicants and take those that have answered satisfactorily.

And of course, you get to decide which people that make it past the interviews are accepted. Don't worry about that.

As for what we want, methinks the last post speaks for itself. Coherence, a world that has an appropriate answer to an earthshatteringly strong force, are two of the keypoints.

Oslecamo
2008-05-11, 03:45 PM
Osle: The world is not A Song of Ice and Fire. There ARE altruistic and good people in power. The kind that tries to make things better for everyone, so don't think that commoners will be in such a bad position.



Strange. I always assumed that one of the basis of any D&D seting was that either there wasn't big organizations and it was almost each city by itself, points of light like refered on 4, or that if there were big goverments they were pretty much corrupt, mad and/or power hungry.

So you want to turn this version in an utopic world where magic has solved most of the mundane problems and if the heros must face something, it has to be something really fearsome and able to threaten an empire wich can answer earthshaking forces regurlary, right?

What level of power are you thinking exactly for players then? Begginer fighters spliting up rocks/trees/walls/castles/mountains/planets?(choose the one you think it's more apropriate)

MartinHarper
2008-05-11, 03:53 PM
How is magic everywhere? Is it because everyone has magical powers, or because everyone has magical items?

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-11, 03:53 PM
Sorta. Think Cold war.

Magic is strong...but hey, Jim, if you try to threaten me with your shiny missiles of doom, I'm taking out the shining waves o' doom. So, you have fireballs? Enlarged fireballs is my game.

See, magic is very prevalent in the setting we're picturing. But it's not just the domain of casters. Yeah, they can tell the laws of physics to sit down and shut up, but the swordguy will also tell physics to sit down as he moves "Fas-ter than-a La-zer bu-llet" or cleaves the guy in platemail in half. The power level will be high, but not nearly close to Exalted high.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-11, 03:55 PM
How is magic everywhere? Is it because everyone has magical powers, or because everyone has magical items?

Magic is simply abundant. It's a force that, while not quantifiable, is certainly extremely plentiful.

Grug
2008-05-11, 04:00 PM
I'd be willing to contribute creatively and conceptually.

BTW Azerian, I haven't heard from you in a while. send me a PM.

MartinHarper
2008-05-11, 04:00 PM
Magic is simply abundant. It's a force that, while not quantifiable, is certainly extremely plentiful.

That doesn't actually answer my question. How does this plentiful force manifest itself in the world? If I'm a regular guy in the setting, do I buy bread from the store, or do I wave a wand over my empty plate?

Grug
2008-05-11, 04:06 PM
That brings up another question: How exactly does one gain magic power? Can anyone do it through study? Or is their maximum determined at birth, a-la chosen ones.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-11, 04:38 PM
Magic is simply abundant. It's a force that, while not quantifiable, is certainly extremely plentiful.

Plentiful how? Jack Vance plentiful, where there's a lot of power but very few people can use it, and they hoard it? Or Forgotten Realms plentiful, where simply everybody has a magical breadknife +3 in their locker? Or Soldier's Son plentiful, where the power is everywhere but only yields itself to very small tricks, for most people? Or perhaps Xanth plentiful, where everybody and their grandma is magical and has one vaguely defined strict power?

Oh and yeah, I'm interested in helping out. I'd be happy to post or PM examples of prior work.

Farmer42
2008-05-11, 04:45 PM
I'm not really big with tons of crunch, but I can help fluff out and define religious pantheons. One of the few practical applications of my religion major.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-11, 06:07 PM
Plentiful how? Jack Vance plentiful, where there's a lot of power but very few people can use it, and they hoard it? Or Forgotten Realms plentiful, where simply everybody has a magical breadknife +3 in their locker? Or Soldier's Son plentiful, where the power is everywhere but only yields itself to very small tricks, for most people? Or perhaps Xanth plentiful, where everybody and their grandma is magical and has one vaguely defined strict power?

Oh and yeah, I'm interested in helping out. I'd be happy to post or PM examples of prior work.

This is one of the points on which I want many people working at. I have an idea of this, but I much prefer a variety of people voting on it for and against it before defining it. Plus, I want other ideas, to pick the best among them.

The thing goes like this: Magic exists, and is EXTREMELY abundant. However, on it's own, it's only capable of parlor tricks, or D&D prestidigitations, nothing too powerful.

However, there is another force around, which is useless alone but is basically a universal multiplier, for anything ranging from painting to chopping someone with a sword, which is for now called Focus. Focus is a sort of complement to magic.

There are two ways to use Focus: temporary and permanent uses. A temporary use drains Focus to multiply an effect up to a point (For example, running twice your normal speed without overloading your body), and once the effect is done and the Focus is spent, you can recover it in some way, possibly in a short time, possibly after days of resting.

A PERMANENT use of Focus generates a far, far greater effect (Allowing, for example, a mediocre artist to paint a Mona Lisa, or an average warrior to kill sixty enemies in a swing), but the focus cannot be regenerated. And once you spend all your focus permanently, you're done for. No matter who you are, you're dead and buried.

Of course, this is only the most basic system. Personally, I like it but consider it inappropriate for the setting. I'm extremely open for ideas on this point, since it could be one of the biggest decisions for the system. Until a more permanent decision is taken, this is the base model we'll use.

Oslecamo
2008-05-12, 05:15 AM
Please no once per life powers. Nobody truly likes that, and they normally end up being degenerated anyay.

All powers should have some way of recharging themselves, be it waiting or performing special actions.

Now how much magic is there and how it is distributed is entirely dependant on the starting level of the characters. If every commoner can afford to have greater stone golems protecting their farms then a starting hero will need to be able to slaughter greater stone golems whitout much effort.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-12, 05:35 AM
Please no once per life powers. Nobody truly likes that, and they normally end up being degenerated anyay.

I agree. That would make a decent setting for some books, but not for a roleplaying game.

Especially as the munchkin approach is simply to go nova every session, and make a new character remarkably similar to your previous one.

Dumbledore lives
2008-05-12, 05:46 AM
I'd be sort of interested in this, maybe contribute a few ideas, though I'm not the most reliable person and I'm on very rarely when many others are. I was wondering how you'd handle resurrection or serious healing, can you lose an arm and then just regrow it? Just would be kind of nice to know a bit more about the setting before I decide to put any major work into it.

kc0bbq
2008-05-12, 05:28 PM
Are you still planning on trying to sell the system in the future? That changes things, i.e. don't ask for any input until you have a business model and plans for what to do with any revenue, who owns what...

If it's open, pick a license, i.e. Creative Commons Attribution + Noncommercial (others can use the work as long as they give proper attribution and for noncommercial purposes only), so people know, again, who owns what in regards to their work and what their rights are. Pick one even if this is just going to end up on the forums, or you'll have some issues if someone steals parts or whatever.

But then again, the direction seems a bit fanciful and untenable to my mind. Maybe you should create a design document so people will know if they want to join in, as opposed to a more bodies - more better philosophy. If I (and probably others) were to get involved with something like this, I want to know that the end product will be something I want to play. There has to be an accepted method of dealing with disputes, or there'll be infighting and everything ends in flames.

Listen to EE (oh, the horrors) and get organized before charging ahead.

This is stuff that needs to be decided now rather then in the future.

If you've decided to create something just to create something with no goals for commercial use, pick a license and be done with it, don't bother to ever look at it again and go to town.

EvilElitest
2008-05-12, 06:33 PM
Listen to EE (oh, the horrors) and get organized before charging ahead.

People should do this more often


Anyways, i actually don't like the super high magic idea you've come up with, it doesn't suit my tastes. That being said, the idea isn't bad per say, just i don't like it. How about this. We get a team then decide what the world is going to be like. You idea is one theory. I like mine better. But we won't mock the others until at team is assembled

Oh and Vorbil Tribble Your one the team. Screw Free will, your one
from
EE

UserClone
2008-05-13, 07:52 AM
I think that the wisest way to approach this, from my view, is to plan on distributing it as freeware. There will likely be fewer IP issues if we are not selling it for profit. Also, have any of you ever read the Darksword trilogy? It's tempting to write a game in that world. Essentially, everyone in the world has some magic. Depending on who you parents were n' such, you'd get different kinds (I believe theirs were elemental-based, with additional elements added, such as Time, Life, and Spirit). In fact, magic is so important that they call it Life (capital L). Every baby was tested (with three tests) to see what types of magic they could use. If they passed all three, they were a little above average; if they passed only two, they were still normal. If they passed only one, they were considered Dead, and went to live with the Tecnologists, practicioners of Death magic, so called because technology involved no actual Life to perform. Even they, though they could do no magic of any significance, had some Life. Naturally, they main character (a prince) failed all three tests. Anyone like doing something like this? I find it to be a pretty interesting platform from which to start differentiating classes (races?) based on their magical birthrights.

Pirate_King
2008-05-13, 08:27 AM
Also, have any of you ever read the Darksword trilogy? It's tempting to write a game in that world...

I just started reading the first book, but I don't think that's what he's going for here. With a technological-utility kind of magic, I'm thinking a more serious version of Discworld, with elements of steampunk, but not too much like Eberron. Also, I'm in. Still putting the finishing touches on the Avatar Project in the sig, so there's my XP.

captainkubrik
2008-05-13, 08:35 AM
Also, have any of you ever read the Darksword trilogy? It's tempting to write a game in that world. Essentially, everyone in the world has some magic.

Weis and Hickman wrote an RPG-based on that series. It wasn't a very good RPG system-wise, but it was an interesting RPG in that it supplied a lot of background and flavor into the world that wasn't covered in the novel.

Oslecamo
2008-05-13, 08:38 AM
Well, I guess you already have enough people to start making interviews.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-13, 08:38 AM
Sort of like Rifts, "The number one RPG to houserule"?

*Shiver*

I've played it. It's fluff is above a GURPS book, but in rules it's probably worse than RaHoWa. We want to avoid something like that.

Also, considering the comments, it got me thinking...it's probably better if we make it free, like a few have said. Indeed, it would be an interesting question, why purchase D&D if there's a free alternative which could be of at least similar quality?

Various
2008-05-13, 06:28 PM
Are you making a new system or new campaign setting fluff? Cause you're saying you're making a whole new system and then you start talking about, what looks to me, campaign setting fluff.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-13, 08:12 PM
A whole system, but the fluff is related. See, what happens when you get unlimited food sources? Or possibly give everyone in the world flight? Obviously, that is going to cause a mechanical change, be it for the GM or players. D&D encourages you to play dumb, because once you try something like that (Or try to use fabricate, or try to sell something and realize the prices are completely idiotic), everything goes down in flames unless you have a very creative DM. That is not the aim of this system. The idea is that if you try to do something, you won't catch the system with the pants down.