What was your first reaction to Therkla's parents?

[Darkbane]

Since I can't figure out how to post a new poll, this will have to do. Personally, my first thought was, "Aww, that's cute." Other opinions?

[Lira]

I thought the exact same thing. They're adorable together.

[MisterM]

Since I can't figure out how to post a new poll, this will have to do. Personally, my first thought was, "Aww, that's cute." Other opinions?

No, I agree, they make a cute couple.

[hamishspence]

Same here. but then I also like Dragon Mirth pic by Tony Moseley in Dragon 281: march 2001: human guy, big orc lady with one arm round him and other hand holding baby, captioned:
"Our first half-orc! I'm going to call her Bludstuk, after my unholy sword"

It's an improvement on the normal backstory, at least.

[The Extinguisher]

Mine was "Yay! Not all half-orcs are a product of rape in Oots!"

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I was also happy to see something besides the standard "My mother was raped by the orcs during a raid, and ended up pregnant with me. But she raised me over the objections of the village elders..."

And it also brings up another question about Therkla... She was clearly raised by a loving family, what made her head down the Assassin's Path? But with only just the briefests of glances at her parents, they seem Chaotic Good. Aren't Assassins usually Lawful Evil?

[DementedFellow]

They seemed happy. I liked it. Of course I see nothing wrong with an intermingling of the races, I myself like Asians.

It actually is the first genuinely happy couple we've seen in OotS. Because look how old Therkla is in the comic where they are shown. And her parents are still clearly in love.

[Kaelaroth]

Since I can't figure out how to post a new poll, this will have to do. Personally, my first thought was, "Aww, that's cute." Other opinions?


Mine was "Yay! Not all half-orcs are a product of rape in Oots!"

A combination of those two for me, with added: Aaaaaah. :smallsmile:

[SoD]

My first reaction: aww, how sweet.


But with only just the briefests of glances at her parents, they seem Chaotic Good. Aren't Assassins usually Lawful Evil?

Why do they seem chaotic good? They could be any alignment, or different alignments and still be in love. The orc could be a LG cleric of Pelor, and the human might be a NE rogue/sorcerer/arcane trickster, and they could still be just as in love with each other.

And assassins can be any evil (I'd say LE if they just take the contracts, NE if they take contracts for the money, CE if they just want to be paid to kill people), but I'd say usually LE as well, although there's no book that says that.

[The Extinguisher]

Except Therkla is a Ninja and just an assassin, not an Assassin. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)

[David Argall]

On the basis of one picture? There really isn't much to say. They make a nice joke about the common picture and another about the orcs finding such a good picture disgusting. Beyond that, one is pretty much painting one's own picture.

[Kai Maera]

They are adorable together.

It probably helps that orcs aren't bloodthirsty, 7 foot tall, and ugly in OotS.

I honestly think that's probably what most people supporting this sort of thing in non-OotS D&D don't quite get: they're evil, they want to kill you, and they refuse civilization.

Unless you're in Order of the Stick. Then they're your snuggly green cutie-pie.:smallbiggrin:

[dragongirl13]

"Yay, they broke another stereotype!"

Yes, that was really my first thought.

The second was something along the line of, "Ugh, mushy gushy romance."

[Nikolai_II]

On the basis of one picture? There really isn't much to say. They make a nice joke about the common picture and another about the orcs finding such a good picture disgusting. Beyond that, one is pretty much painting one's own picture.

The picture in this case is that Wizards of the Coast removed half-orcs from the Core Rulebooks in 4Ed because of the "ugly backstory" (implied rape).
So Mr Giant is basically rubbing their noses in their silliness, and I laud him for it. :smallbiggrin:

[Kastanok]

I was 'oh, that's different' and started day dreaming about the honestly handsome orcs (male and female) of Stan Nicholls' books.

I don't picture Therkla as ugly at all, but then I don't particularly picture the full-blooded orcs as unusually ugly. Strong featured, definitely, but not ugly. Even the green skin is more... olive in my mind.

[teratorn]

My first reaction was to think about James Kirk.

I also want a snuggly green cutie-pie!

[Mordokai]

They seemed happy. I liked it. Of course I see nothing wrong with an intermingling of the races, I myself like Asians.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Asians are the same race as you are, no matter if you're European, American or African. Orcs and humans on other hand, are two entirely different races. Unless you're klingon, that is :smalltongue:

My first reaction to the panel was something along the lines, awww, that's sweet. Yeah, I'm a little bit of a sucker for romance. Second, nice to see something different from rape cliche.

[Querzis]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Asians are the same race as you are, no matter if you're European, American or African. Orcs and humans on other hand, are two entirely different races. Unless you're klingon, that is :smalltongue:.

Well you are both wrong since Asians and Europeans are two different races but Orcs and humans are two different species.

That was kinda the whole point of Redcloak: «I'm a speciesist» thing. And since all species are speciesist to an extent simply because we always think of people of our species as more important as other species, I dont have any problem with being a speciesist either.

[Mordokai]

Need to get my terms straight :smalltongue: :smallsmile: That's what too little of sleeping will do to me.

[Kurald Galain]

And it also brings up another question about Therkla... She was clearly raised by a loving family, what made her head down the Assassin's Path? But with only just the briefests of glances at her parents, they seem Chaotic Good. Aren't Assassins usually Lawful Evil?

Rebellious puberty?

[Mauve Shirt]

I first thought "Aw, that's cute!"

[Jayngfet]

"I prefer minotaur women but eh, to each his own."

[Calinero]

Well, to be honest, I would have been extremely shocked if Burlew had stuck with the "half orc = rape of human" cliche. I mean, how could that possibly be made into something funny? This is a comedy strip (most of the time.)

[Guancyto]

"I <3 these orcs" about sums it up, but it wasn't the first scene to make me think so.

I mean, bowing out of a perfectly good rampage to let the new guys have a go? Total class act.

[krossbow]

They are adorable together.

It probably helps that orcs aren't bloodthirsty, 7 foot tall, and ugly in OotS.


i actually like that about order of the stick. Personally, i HATE the traditional D&D orc artwork; they look more like gorillas than anything, and the woman just look like gorillas wearing a bra.


They look less like a humanoid and more like a magical beast. However, in order of the stick, orcs look more like just large green humanoids with fangs and broken english. Thats probably why the couple doesn't look too out of place in order of the stick, as traditional D&D orc woman could NEVER be swung up in the air by a human guy (without him either straining his back or being enormous).

[Jayngfet]

i actually like that about order of the stick. Personally, i HATE the traditional D&D orc artwork; they look more like gorillas than anything, and the woman just look like gorillas wearing a bra.


They look less like a humanoid and more like a magical beast. However, in order of the stick, orcs look more like just large green humanoids with fangs and broken english. Thats probably why the couple doesn't look too out of place in order of the stick, as traditional D&D orc woman could NEVER be swung up in the air by a human guy (without him either straining his back or being enormous).

or y'know having a decent modifier or two.

[Devils_Advocate]

I honestly think that's probably what most people supporting this sort of thing in non-OotS D&D don't quite get: they're evil, they want to kill you, and they refuse civilization.
Or, alternately, they're well aware that standard D&D orcs are mean, bloodthirsty, and savage, but want a setting where that isn't the case. Possibly because they've seen the standard take on orcs so many times that they've gotten sick of it. ("Ah, Eberron. Where orcs are tree-hugging hippies and elves are a screaming horde.")

It's sort of odd that a lot of players seem to assume that most half-orcs are the product of rape, to the point where some will avoid playing them just because they find it hard to explain the character's origin without the typical "ugly backstory". I call it odd because that's not how the PHB explains there being enough half-orcs to justify them being a player race. (They come from tribes of human and orc barbarians.)

The real problem with crossbreeds is that official material doesn't much address all the questions that their existance raises. (Why are there stats for some pairings but not others? Which hybrids are possible, and which ones are fertile? All of them? Which races are actually the same species? Is there even such a thing as a "species" in the magical fantasy world of D&D? Et cetera.)

[CasESenSITItiVE]

And it also brings up another question about Therkla... She was clearly raised by a loving family, what made her head down the Assassin's Path? But with only just the briefests of glances at her parents, they seem Chaotic Good. Aren't Assassins usually Lawful Evil?

therkla was obviously disturbed by the whole orc-human relationship. mabye having to grow up with it drove her to evil

[Chronos]

Well you are both wrong since Asians and Europeans are two different races but Orcs and humans are two different species.Actually, there's no logical standard of races by which Asians and Europeans are different. If one were to divide Homo sapiens up into a dozen different races based on actual degree of genetic similarity, there would end up being 11 races in Africa, and one for the entire rest of the world. And of course, even then, the definitions would still be very fuzzy: Species is mostly well-defined, subspecies is sort of moderately well-defined, but anything at a lower level of organization than subspecies is pretty near hopeless.

[Kai Maera]

Or, alternately, they're well aware that standard D&D orcs are mean, bloodthirsty, and savage, but want a setting where that isn't the case. Possibly because they've seen the standard take on orcs so many times that they've gotten sick of it. ("Ah, Eberron. Where orcs are tree-hugging hippies and elves are a screaming horde.")

Making a setting and forcing something on a setting are two entirely different things. People are afraid of going all the way in one way or the other: change the setting and the people, or change neither!

That said, I find a peaceful orc type to be great, especially when one keeps in mind that the only reason orcs are violent is because of millenia of strife. Like the Hrok Brajir, they were once a peaceful race...
With a +6 - 9 STR bonus. And fangs.

[Ganurath]

My first thought:

That should be me.

[Morgan Wick]

I actually wondered if that panel was supposed to be Therkla's memories or Grukgruk's imagination (or both), even knowing that the obvious backstory to use for a half-orc was rape. It's only the 4ed discussion in this thread that's really tipped the scale for me to the former.

My second thought was to stay as far away from that panel as possible on as many re-reads as possible, partly because it was still linked with the "ugly backstory" in my mind, but probably mostly because the mother's line is horribly wooden even for an orc. Not to mention a bit out of place, considering, you know, they already have a kid and she's still going "me so in love" like she's a teenager who's just met this guy.

[Kai Maera]

My second thought was to stay as far away from that panel as possible on as many re-reads as possible, partly because it was still linked with the "ugly backstory" in my mind, but probably mostly because the mother's line is horribly wooden even for an orc. Not to mention a bit out of place, considering, you know, they already have a kid and she's still going "me so in love" like she's a teenager who's just met this guy.


me still in love!

[Wardog]

Incidentally, are half-humans fertile in D&D?

It's something I've been wondering for a while. The standard description of Half-orcs says something like (IIRC) "The product of an orc and human pairing", which tends to suggest an orc and a human parent (although could conceivably refer to something in Great Grandma Ugluk's mis-spent youth).

The Half-elf description is even more specific, saying they inherit certain characteristics from their "human parent" and others from their "elven parent".

Does that mean you couldn't have a half-orc/elf with the back story ("Well, my mother was a half-orc/elf, and so was my father.")


Which also makes me wonder: what would you get if a half-orc and half-elf had children? (Answer: probably something with really lame racial abilities).

[Estelindis]

Incidentally, are half-humans fertile in D&D?


I don't know about half-elf/half-orc pairings, but in Forgotten Realms there's a whole civilisation of half-elves in the Yuirwood. It's been around for hundreds of years. So, presumably, half-elves have half-elven children.

[Beholder1995]

My first response to that panel was a broad grin, mostly because I could imagine Therkla's mother's voice so well. It never actually ever crossed my mind that Half-Orcs were the results of rape- I always imagined it the way it appeared in this strip. (When I was ten, though, I also thought you had to be married to have a baby.) And the reason I pictured it like that is why I banned Half-Orcs in most of my campaign worlds, solely due to the fact that I couldn't imagine a human and an Orc settling down together.

[Darkbane]

The PHB (might have been v. 3.0, not really sure) said something about half-elves having elven eye colors, but some half-elven children of two half-elves had more normal eye colors. So half-elves are fertile, and half-orcs probably are. On the issue of alignment, there's a very interesting argument that Therkla's father is the assassin from #435 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html), because the art is almost exactly the same. If so, then is Therkla's mother also evil? (I mean, the assassin guy is presumably evil.) And did that cause them to break up?

The sad thing is, the Giant probably just meant this one panel as a quick, minor backstory thing. Our questions will never be answered!:smallfrown:

[Mordokai]

Which also makes me wonder: what would you get if a half-orc and half-elf had children? (Answer: probably something with really lame racial abilities).

+2 STR, +2 CHA, penalty on Diplomacy checks, normal speed... Gods only know :smalltongue: But it would probably be interesting to see what WotC would come up with.

[Istari]

SPOILERS

Yes! no more Therkla is righteye's daughter threads

[Remirach]

At first I was thrilled that we would not be hearing any more about Therkla being Right-Eye's daughter.

But now it's just speculation about how she's the Grand Larceny Guy's daughter.

And possibly Thog's sister.

It's enough to make a person weep.

[UglyPanda]

I personally thought, that's nice, it isn't an ugly backstory. Then I laughed when I realized how Therkla interpreted that statement.

[Jayngfet]

SPOILERS

Yes! no more Therkla is righteye's daughter threads

You mean like we thought after she took her mask off?

[The Extinguisher]

Like the Hrok Brajir, they were once a peaceful race...


Yay! Nitpicking! They still are peaceful. They're just being mind controlled.

...Okay, I'm done now.

[North]

My first thought was her dad was a Pally....?

[Yeoman]

My reaction? "Sunnova!"

See, I'd had pretty much that exact bit as the background for a character I'm gonna do for a campaign my group will be getting around to. :smallcool:

[NENAD]

My response was "that's funny."

[chiasaur11]

Hmm.
Maybe Therkla's parents are like Hal and Lois on Malcolm in the Middle. Crazy in lust and/or love for each other, but not the ideal parents. She joined ninja school as a plee for attention from parents who rarely get out of bed to do anything.

[Charles Phipps]

Like Therkala, I found it shocking and horrible.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[Silkenfist]

Like Therkla, I found it shocking and horrific.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Fixed it for you. :smalltongue:

[Shatteredtower]

I was just amazed that the parents of a toddler still had that much energy.

[Laurentio]

On the issue of alignment, there's a very interesting argument that Therkla's father is the assassin from #435 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html), because the art is almost exactly the same.
It just seems me that The Giants use lot of copy&paste. And to be honest, black-haired male human must be one of the most common trait possible.
I means, nobody suppose Roy to be a relative of the Nowhere king, or Haley to be of Planar ancestry?

Laurentio

[Paladin29]

I like "Imposible Love" stories... That panel was very sweet :smallredface:

[Fiery Diamond]

My initial response was also "Awwww, that's so cute!"

I still think it's cute.

[Saint Nil]

I had to make a will save t prevent myself from going
awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

I failed:smalltongue:

[Draz74]

I'm going to go against the majority and say my first reaction was:

*wince* Ugh!

Not so much because of the interracial thing. More because:

Sappy!!! :smallyuk:
Illiterate! After dating a human that long, couldn't she have learned first-person pronouns correctly?
The two above points, taken together, as well as Therkla's apparent negative memory of her childhood, implied that there really is nothing in this relationship but lust and constant sex. No responsibility, practical interdependency, or parenting skills. (Like chiasaur's comment describes.)

[Ganurath]

+2 STR, +2 CHA, penalty on Diplomacy checks, normal speed... Gods only know :smalltongue: But it would probably be interesting to see what WotC would come up with.A human who gives up the bonus feat for Orc Blood, Elf Blood, Low-Light Vision, and Darkvision.

[Player_Zero]

First impressions?

Giggidee, giggidee, giggidee-goo. :smalltongue:

[Edric O]

The picture in this case is that Wizards of the Coast removed half-orcs from the Core Rulebooks in 4Ed because of the "ugly backstory" (implied rape).
So Mr Giant is basically rubbing their noses in their silliness, and I laud him for it. :smallbiggrin:
They did what in 4th Edition? Clearly we can't have any "ugly backstory" in a game that is mostly about killing sentient creatures... :smallconfused:


Well you are both wrong since Asians and Europeans are two different races but Orcs and humans are two different species.

That was kinda the whole point of Redcloak: «I'm a speciesist» thing. And since all species are speciesist to an extent simply because we always think of people of our species as more important as other species, I dont have any problem with being a speciesist either.
It probably also helps that the real world, unlike the D&D universe, only has a single intelligent species (humans) as opposed to hundreds of them.

[Liwen]

First impression?

First thing that came to mind?

Me thinking : "Damn, she IS cute for an orc. You lucky bast..."

Then I came to my senses and threw some acid on my face to get rid of my eyes.

[EvilJames]

The picture in this case is that Wizards of the Coast removed half-orcs from the Core Rulebooks in 4Ed because of the "ugly backstory" (implied rape).
So Mr Giant is basically rubbing their noses in their silliness, and I laud him for it. :smallbiggrin:

It's funny that Wizards thought that when TSR already had something akin to this in Planescape with Lhar the Half-Orc leader of the Bleak Cabal. His parents came to Sigil to escape the prejudices of their home.

[Angafirith]

Or, alternately, they're well aware that standard D&D orcs are mean, bloodthirsty, and savage, but want a setting where that isn't the case. Possibly because they've seen the standard take on orcs so many times that they've gotten sick of it. ("Ah, Eberron. Where orcs are tree-hugging hippies and elves are a screaming horde.")
Yeah. It might be the impact of reading lots and lots of OOTS (including SoD), but my campaign's been turning out kind of weird lately.

We rolled up new characters for Scourge of the Howling Horde (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953827400) recently. From what I understand, it's a relatively straightforward slaughter module. Basically, we handed off the DM duties to someone who had never done it before and wanted something easy. Here's the strange thing: we did not actually kill a single goblin. Charm Person and Disguise Self were involved.

I'm somewhat tired of seeing certain races (or humanoid species) depicted as irredeemably evil, you know? As if there's some "evil gene" or something.

[Charles Phipps]

It's funny that Wizards thought that when TSR already had something akin to this in Planescape with Lhar the Half-Orc leader of the Bleak Cabal. His parents came to Sigil to escape the prejudices of their home.

Except, Lhar's write-up also had a joke.

Lhar's father was blind.

They also did the joke in the Rod of Seven Parts novel. Specifically, a halfling thief goes to rescue a human woman held prisoner by an Ogre after meeting their Half-Ogre son. She turns out to be a gigantic woman with a taste for cannibalism (twas love at first sight)

[Felixaar]

"Green skin is HOT."

I'm a terrible person.

[Nikolai_II]

I was just amazed that the parents of a toddler still had that much energy.

Well, she could be two or even three years old (or given that she's a half-orc, one or two years old) and by two years of age energy is regained :smallredface:

[mockingbyrd7]

"Yay! Not all half-orcs are a product of rape in Oots!"

Plus


"Aww, that's cute."

was my reaction.

Oh, and Darkbane, the poll button's been broken forever. They had to remove it because it was causing some problems of some sort.

[dworkin]

What's so odd? It's just as wierd as all those supposedly consensual elf / human pair-ups. Especially from the elf POV. Humans can be seen as ugly, crude barbarians with short life spans, violent tendancies with an urge to chop all the forests down.

[Izodor]

I thought: that indeed is quite funny, yes, it is indeed quite funny, yes.