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View Full Version : Help me build a warshaping Chameleon!



Tokiko Mima
2008-05-12, 11:21 AM
Hi all!

I'm working on creating a Changeling Barbarian/Chameleon 6th level character, but I'm having problems meeting basic requirements. My DM is allowing any WotC 3.5 material (but not UA stuff like Flaws) and so far I had been using Barbarian 1/Swashbuckler 1/Barbarian 2/Warshaper 1/Chameleon X. Of course I have to take Able Learner at 1st level but my 3rd level and 6th level Feat is open.

However, it was pointed out to me that since this build only gets Disguise at 5th level (from Warshaper) that I won't have enough skill points to raise Disguise to 8 and meet the other three skill requirements (Bluff:8 Spellcraft:4 Sense Motive:4.)

I can get Chameleon without a problem at level 7 or if I take a rogue level I can also put in the skill points earlier, but I can't seem to make both of them hit the optimum build of Warshaper at level 5 and starting Chameleon at level 6.

The background I wrote involves a changeling with a huge temper who grew up in the Eldeen and surrounding wilderness, so that's why I'm classing into barbarian. I would kind of like to keep at least a single Barbarian level if possible, but I can work around whatever changes have to be made. The Swashbuckler level is only there for the Bluff skill though it sadly does not provide Disguise as well.

Stuff I've tried:

The only full BAB class I've found with the Disguise class skill is 3.0: Rokugan Ninja, from Legend of the Five Rings. But it's 3.0 and not directly published by WotC (though it does use the standard D&D rulebooks.)
City Slicker Feat from Races of Destiny would work, but it can only be taken at level 1, and Able Learner can only be taken at level 1 too. Changelings only get 1 feat at first level.
No Flaws allowed. :smallfrown:
I calculated the INT bonus I would need and it comes out to 20 INT minimum. (Warshaper gives 2+Int skill points, and I need 5 points for Disguise, 1 for Bluff, and 1 for Spellcraft.) :smallfrown:
I already asked the DM to be allowed to carry over some of the skill points from the previous level. No go on that, sadly.

Can anyone make this build work, please? :smallsmile:

Iku Rex
2008-05-12, 12:36 PM
Three levels barbarian seems like a waste. Maxing out swashbuckler to get the Int-to-damage ability might be better if you plan to use a finesseable weapon and wear light armor. A level of fighter could get you an extra feat. Three levels hexblade would get you arcane resistance and mettle, and it has bluff as a class skill.

None of these suggestions solve your main problem. My suggestion would be to just get another level of warshaper. A chameleon has mad MAD, and +4 Str and +4 Con is a big deal.

Tokiko Mima
2008-05-12, 01:06 PM
Hexblade could work instead of Swashbuckler. If it has Spellcraft as a class skill, I could maybe try and squeeze all the skill points in with an 18 intelligence. Thanks for the suggestion, Iku Rex! :smallwink:

I was thinking of using the Nymph's Kiss feat from BoED (It gives an extra skill point per level), but I didn't want to have to deal with having an Exalted character with anger management issues. The flavor is also 180 degrees not this character. Though.. it could be fun to be conflicted in so many ways. :smallconfused:

Draz74
2008-05-12, 01:10 PM
Three levels of Factotum is great for any high-INT character, and it will get you your Disguise. It does lose a point of BAB, though.

Or tell your DM to houserule that Swashbucklers should get Disguise (and Knowledge(nobility and royalty) while you're at it), because them not having it is pretty much the stupidest oversight in all of Class Skills lists. (And if he doesn't see why, have him read or watch The Scarlet Pimpernel ASAP. The Princess Bride wouldn't hurt, either.)

Chronos
2008-05-12, 01:23 PM
Remember, you have Able Learner. At 4th level, you should already have at least 3 ranks in each of your prereq skills, or 7 in every skill that's a class skill for any of your classes.

Wait... It looks like you're already taking that into account. I don't suppose there's any way to re-arrange levels to get get some other class at that level? But that's probably the earliest you can qualify for Warshaper, isn't it?

Tokiko Mima
2008-05-12, 02:11 PM
Yeah, it's an optimization exercise, kinda.

Problem: Get warshaper and chameleon PrC's while losing as few spellcaster levels as possible. Flaws are disallowed.

Warshaper Requirements:
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Special: Shapechanger subtype

Chameleon Requirements
Race: Human, Changeling, Doppleganger
Feat: Able Learner
Skills:
Bluff: 8
Disguise: 8
Sense Motive: 4
Spellcraft: 4

Able Learner MUST be taken at 1st level, and allows you to pay only one point for one rank of cross class skills.

The problem I'm having is at 5th level I lack the skill points to raise Disguise so I can take Chameleon at the earliest possible level. I was wondering if there was a trick to sneak in Disguise skill into a Full BAB class, or a way to gain extra skill points at that crucial 5th level mark.

Using Hexblade to gain Spellcraft and Bluff and another Full BAB to get Sense Motive means I could end up only needing an 18 Intelligence score (5 points to Disguise and 1 point to Bluff.) I've also been informed that the Apprentice Feat from DMGII might be of use.

Thanks in advance for the ideas! :smallsmile:

Chronos
2008-05-12, 03:48 PM
Hm, the RP requirements might be difficult, but for theoretical optimization, Nymph's Kiss would reduce your required Int by 2. But then, that's probably inconsistent with Hexblade, which means you'd need something else to give Spellcraft and Bluff. Bluff could come from Paladin of Freedom, though, and Spellcraft could come from Duskblade.

Or if you want to get really cheesy about it, you could pay someone to chaos shuffle some other feat into Open Minded at level 5.

Iku Rex
2008-05-12, 04:13 PM
You're right, Apprentice (Philosopher) would work for sense motive. So would Martial Study (Setting Sun) from Tome of Battle.

The Duskblade (PHBII) base class has full BAB and spellcraft and sense motive as class skills, so you don't even need a feat to make it work. All you need is Int 16.

Frosty
2008-05-12, 06:06 PM
Is Unearthed Arcana allowed? The generic Warrior class can choose like any 4 as his class skills or something, and can even choose his best save! That'll give you your required skills and full BAB

Ecalsneerg
2008-05-13, 02:01 AM
Three levels of Factotum is great for any high-INT character, and it will get you your Disguise. It does lose a point of BAB, though.

Or tell your DM to houserule that Swashbucklers should get Disguise (and Knowledge(nobility and royalty) while you're at it), because them not having it is pretty much the stupidest oversight in all of Class Skills lists. (And if he doesn't see why, have him read or watch The Scarlet Pimpernel ASAP. The Princess Bride wouldn't hurt, either.)

That's a minor error. Go look for the swashbuckler's proficiency in shiels.