How to build a necromancer

[kentma57]

I want to build a non-cleric necromancer (preferably a sorrcerer as the base class) and I was wondering what is the best way to do it?
I know there is a feat that lets you get the domin power of any cleric domain and I also know there is a domain that lets you controll 3 times you caster level in HD of undead, that could help.

Any ideas?

[kamikasei]

Why do you want to build him and why with those restrictions? What's the character supposed to achieve, or is it just an exercise in making an effective necromancer who isn't a cleric?

I'd recommend going with a Dread Necromancer for a sorcerer-like character who can already rebuke undead, and heal them for free to boot.

[Nebo_]

Dread Necromancer.

[kentma57]

Why do you want to build him and why with those restrictions? What's the character supposed to achieve, or is it just an exercise in making an effective necromancer who isn't a cleric?

I'd recommend going with a Dread Necromancer for a sorcerer-like character who can already rebuke undead, and heal them for free to boot.

I like sorrcerers...

[kamikasei]

I like sorrcerers...

Then there's a good chance you'll like the Dread Necromancer. It's a Cha-based spontaneous caster, but instead of choosing a limited number of spells it has full access to a larger, but fixed, list of mostly necromantic spells at each level. As I say, much like a sorcerer but better for this role.

What I meant was whether there were mechanical restrictions on how you could build the character, e.g. are you playing core-only, and whether there was a particular aim you had for the character so that we could choose the mechanics to attain it.

[Tempest Fennac]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060627a and http://www.devinweb.com/dreadnecromancerspells.htm should contain all the information you need to make a DN (they are definitly the best choice for your character concept).

[Bag_of_Holding]

Pale Master prestige class from Libris Mortis is pretty good for any necromancer characters. You lose 1 caster level, but you get animate dead as spell-like ability 1/day (no need for expensive material components!) as well as nifty immunities and undead cohort to boot.

[Mr. Friendly]

I want to build a non-cleric necromancer (preferably a sorrcerer as the base class) and I was wondering what is the best way to do it?
I know there is a feat that lets you get the domin power of any cleric domain and I also know there is a domain that lets you controll 3 times you caster level in HD of undead, that could help.

Any ideas?

The domain is Deathbound. You can normally, all by yourself, control 4HD/Lvl in Undead. What Deathbound does (post-errata) is lets you get 3HD/LVL with a *single* casting of Animate dead, rather than 2/lvl.

[Citizen Jenkins]

This is pretty much the gold standard for necromancers,
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=599129

If you have access to the Complete Mage, there's a convenient little item called the Deathwalker's (AFB) Ring which will duplicate the +2 HP bonus of desecrate without you having to build evil alters all over the place.

The sad truth is up until 8th level you won't be able to really start making an undead army. Your best bet is either to stick within the school and pick up a bunch of Fear effects or stick to the theme and spend the first eight levels using Summon Undead from the Libris Mortis or the Spell Compendium.

Don't worry too much about how many HD of undead you can control. If you've got more than 2 pimped out monsters then combat starts to really bog down.

[Ethanael]

The feat found in Libris Mortis, Destruction Retribution, is the key to dealing a lot of damage as a necromancer, in my opinion. I've played a Dread Necromancer for a year and this feat has screwed over the enemy and saved my cookies many times. The feat is found on page 26 of Libris Mortis, and it requires you take the feat Corpsecrafter, which is a pretty useful feat anyway (undead you summon get +4 str and +2 hp per hd). Destruction Retribution causes your undead, when destroyed, to explode in a 10' radius, dealing negative energy damage. 1d6 negative energy automatically, then 1d6 negative energy per 2 hd after that. Furthermore, this negative energy would heal any nearby undead, thus bolstering your defenses.
Also useful is the feat Deadly Chill, which allows your undead to deal a d6 cold damage per attack. Not much, but it really adds up after multiple attacks.
I hope this helped. I love necromancers.
~Ethanael

[Kizara]

1) Dread Necro

2) Fell Animate

3) Divine Metamagic

4) fun...

[Project_Mayhem]

As the question has been essentially answered, can I divert this for a second?

We've got a dread Necro in our group, so the two of us had a look at the char-op boards, found the handbook, etc.

Now, they say all Dread Necros take Tomb tainted soul. I understand why. But, part of their explanation says that the Negative energy bursts affect the DN too, suggesting that you physically have to take TTS or you end up killing yourself. However, the actual wording is just 'anything with in n feet'. Doesn't say it affects you.

So, basically, was this errata'd in or something? Or was it in an FAQ? Or am I misreading it?

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm guessing that the damage would affect the DN as well (wouldn't Tomb-Tainted Soul give DNs infinite healing when combined with Charnel Touch? If DNs can use it on themselves, TTS wold be really useful).

[kentma57]

I'm guessing that the damage would affect the DN as well (wouldn't Tomb-Tainted Soul give DNs infinite healing when combined with Charnel Touch? If DNs can use it on themselves, TTS wold be really useful).

I love that part, and what book is the dread necromancer in?

[Tempest Fennac]

According to the WotC link I posted earlier, the class is from Heroes of Horror (you should be able to play as a DN using the 2 links I posted without needing the book, though). I can't remember where I read it, but I think Charnel Touch dioes 1d6 of Negative energy damage when it's used, so it wouldn't the that useful for combat healing after the first couple of levels.

[Bayar]

If you are interested in necromancy spells, then get a focused specialist necromancer wizard. I personally dont advise you to do it though, but it could be a good debuffer.

[TheCountAlucard]

Corpsecrafter, which is a pretty useful feat anyway (undead you summon get +4 str and +2 hp per hd).

Undead you create, not summon. My party's DN found that out the hard way.

[Nebo_]

3) Divine Metamagic


Doesn't work. Divine Metamagic only works on Divine spells. Funny, that.

[Maerok]

Dread Necro is the best bet out of the box for necromancy (the Real True Necromancer). Though I'm ashamed that it still gets animate dead after a Cleric. :smallfrown: I'm currently playing a level 6 one, with a Cleric in the party. I actually didn't take TTS; and it's in a tie between Skill Focus (Religion) for the Pale Master or TTS. (Maybe I can take SF at level up at 9th and simultaneously qualify for Pale Master and take that level in it?)

True Necro is cool but you won't find a lot of love for it here... Too many redundant SLAs that I could cast instead of unique class features keeps me away from it but it has a bunch of create dead SLAs (but I think you still need materials).

I prefer to play spontaneous casters - mostly for less book work - and the Dread provides more spell variety than a Sorc. You have every Core spell a necro needs, except desecrate *grumble*. Along with some dastardly spells of other schools.

So, options for Necro:
(A) = Arcane
(D) = Divine

base -
Archivist (D, but eventual A access)
Wizard specialist (A)
Cleric (D)
Dread Necro (A)
Sorcerer (A)
Favored Soul* (D)

prestige-
Pale Master (A)
Yathrinshee (Faerun; femle Drow necro) (A+D)
Wearer of Purple (Faerun; Dracolich necro) (A?)
Horned Harbinger (Faerun; sp?) (none)
Master Specialist (A; 4th level entry)
True Necro (A+D)
Divine Crusader* (D, choose a domain as your spell list)
Mystic Theurge (A+D)
Master of Shrouds (D)

*= Hey, it can be done... But it may not be pretty.

[Xefas]

I'll throw my vote in for Dread Necromancer as well.

I actually introduced one of my friends to roleplaying with a level 9 Dread Necro. He had played Guild Wars and had a necromancer in that, so it was the first thing that came to his mind for a character concept.

By the second encounter, he had picked up a liking to summoning Allips via Summon Undead (I had kinda hoped it would take him longer to figure out those were so good :smallannoyed:), had animated a big demon skeleton, and was doing good ranged damage via bow and spells.

The only problem was that his turn took forever, and not because he was new. Having 2-3 minions plus your own actions makes your turn last forever. So, just be ready to plan your turns in advance so you don't bog things down too badly.

[Maerok]

Owlbear Skeletonnnnnnnn!!!

I use d20srd.org because you can roll for attack, etc. right off the stat block.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Owlbear Skeletonnnnnnnn!!!

I use d20srd.org because you can roll for attack, etc. right off the stat block.If your stats are similar at all to the ones on the SRD, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!

Seriously, Desecrate something allready. :smallwink:

[Maerok]

I have Corpsecrafter. But Dread doesn't get desecrate... And I've taken disguise undead for Advanced Learning (zombie that was dredged from an undead lake disguised as prostitute... left in an inn under the bed).

When I was cranking out two or three Owlbear Skellies in a battle I started to feel sorry for DM.

[mabriss lethe]

nifty feats for a dread necro just off the top of my head.

Corpsecrafter chain: They're all nifty, some more nifty than others.

Domain Feats: Since you gain rebuke undead, you can get a lot more out of them than most characters. Death devotion is an obvious choice, and pretty nifty too. (hurray for dealing negative levels from the start...)

Improved trip might be a good choice if you're playing a scythe or sickle wielding sort of dread necro.

I've had lots of fun TWFing with DRs in the past. sickle in one hand +trip + touch spell in the other hand = good times. A lot of effort involved though. there are more efficient builds.

[Maerok]

Here's a question: is it worth taking Greater Spell Focus with a Dread? Or better off with more Corpsecrafter? And I'm torn over Necromantic Presence/Might...

[Aquillion]

See if you can get your DM to read the Tome of Necromancy (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562). Even if they won't let you use the classes, PRCs, feats and spells in there, there's enough general philosophy about undead, item/campaign hooks, etc that it'll probably improve your experience simply by having your DM read it.

Oh. You should read it too, of course.

[Maerok]

ToN is shamelessly overpowered (and fun), but it does a lot of interesting things. I love Feed the Dark Gods.

And a lot of magic jar mumbo-jumbo.

I had an ECL 18 necro-themed PbP game going here where everyone used ToN but it died after a while; it was fun though.