Starting up Warhammer 40,000 [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Kane

2008-05-14, 10:30 PM

Two, maybe three, friends and I are going to be starting up WH40K soon. Having never done this before, our thoughts are basically, we all take different armies, buy our race's battlechest, and then give it a shot. So far, the factions we've settled on are
Ork: Bomb
Space Marine: Matthias
and Tau: Kane/Santiago. I answer to both.

We're also intending to wait until the fourth edition comes out in eight weeks. But seeing as none of us have ever done this before, I thought I'd ask for advice from any more experience 40K players, which I'm sure are in abundance here.
Any suggestions On how to begin?

LBO

2008-05-15, 02:21 AM

Aw, helpful startup advice... Wish I'd had this when I started up, back in M38...

You're going to need more startup money than just getting the army battleforces. You have to account for rulebook, codexes (sourcebooks), glue, paints, brushes etc. It's definitely best to get hold of your armies' codexes ahead of time so you know what models you want to get - and to make sure this army seems like what you actually want to collect. I'm sure we can all give you advice on individual units and what they do, if you have specific questions. :smallbiggrin:

Second-hand minis, for once, I wouldn't recommend, as they won't help you learn as much about modelling or converting, or offer as many opportunities to test out paint schemes (before your minis turn into unrecognisable amorphous blobs). However, once you feel a lot more confident in your painting/ability to strip paint, they're a lovely cheap way of picking up more models.

Terrain is really up to you. You can get a flat tabletop and shove books and random crap on it, or you can spend ages putting together fancy terrain. It won't affect how the battles play, but it does improve the atmosphere, and making the stuff is actually quite fun.

Superglue sticks you together in ways you wouldn't expect. You'd think fiction had exaggerated the effect, but for once it's dead on. Beware.

In the words of /tg/: THIN YOUR PAINTS.

Oh, and it's fifth edition that comes out soon, not fourth.

Dervag

2008-05-15, 03:41 AM

How much would someone be looking at in startup costs to buy the hobby supplies, miniatures, and codices to start their first army if they don't already have that on hand?

Wraith

2008-05-15, 04:41 AM

ArtifexFelicis

2008-05-15, 06:46 AM

As for startup for the tau, they're comparatively easier then Orks or Space Marines. You're just gonna want some battle suits, fire warriors, and maybe some kroot. That'll run you up to about 500+ points and enough to play a small army without COMPLETELY destroying your wallet. Arter that, start looking at where to go a static or a mobile route. You'll know what I mean when you get used to it.

As for some startup costs. You might want to try and get the Battle for Maccrage. Everything you need to start up, rule book, cheap easy minis, some dice and a good way to ease into the whole thing. Downsides, you get some nid models, and the Space Marines aren't the best models. They're static, but they'll do in a pinch.

Also, if you want to cut your costs a lot, buy a big thing of card board paper, and make proxy armies by cutting out small squares. You may still need to pay for your army codex, but you can get a great feel for your army with just some paper.

Kane

2008-05-15, 08:20 AM

Assuming that you're in the USA... (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us)

Codex: $20 (One each)
"Battle Chest" of Models: $90 (One each)

Rule Book: $50 (One between all of you)
Set of Paints: $20+ (One between you should suffice)
Set of Dice and Blast Templates: $20+ (One between you)
Glue and other materials: Coupla dollars (Between you)

Minimum cost for 3 people to start playing: $450 between you, altogether.

So yeah... Suddenly, second hand models and a bottle of paint stripper doesn't seem like such a bad idea - I'd still be paying for my army now, if I hadn't done that! Although it won't teach you to paint until you start picking up 'clean' models, eBay will probably ease a lot of the pain in the meantime.

I'd seriously recommend going into your local store and asking if you can play one of the Trial Games first, to make sure you absolutely WANT to play Warhammer 40K. :smallwink:

Okay, Bomb, who seems to have at least some previous knowledge of WH40K in general, says that our local GW store has 'battle chest's, not 'battle force's (I can read! Really!), that are basically the same thing, but they have a commander unit, and(not sure here) that side's codex. Around $120 I was told.

And yah, I don't intend to do anything more than plan until I, and preferably them too, get to go check out our local store. They have painting demos at their stores too, right?

Edit: OH, and I forgot to mention that we have four codex-Codii? Anyway, four; Space Marine, Ork, Daemon Hunter, and Chaos Marines.

Blayze

2008-05-15, 08:54 AM

Codexes, as far as I'm aware. My local store has a gaming and painting list for newbies printed on official-looking paper (Paint trooper, game with trooper. Paint hero, game with hero. Paint squad, game with squad), so there's a good chance it's a global thing.

Edit: OH, and I forgot to mention that we have four codex-Codii? Anyway, four; Space Marine, Ork, Daemon Hunter, and Chaos Marines.

The Daemonhunters Codex allows you to field a more expensive (Points-wise) Space Marine army for less (Money-wise), but with a more limited army choice. It's a personal favourite, especially with Orbital Strike.

Erloas

2008-05-15, 09:15 AM

Well I've been thinking about starting up 40k too, because since I moved just about everyone here plays 40k and not really anything else.

To start with, I personally would never buy models off of Ebay. 99% of the time by the time they add shipping you aren't really saving much if you buy new models. I also wouldn't buy pre-painted models because its not worth the extra effort to clean up the old paint and you have no idea what sort of paint quality you would be stuck with playing with them as is. Everyone also has their own choice of colors and unless you buy them all from the same person or are going for a unit of clowns the chance of anything matching is fairly slim. That might not be a big deal for a lot of people but it would be for me.

Unless there are some local gaming stores you really want to support I would also suggest getting most things online. TheWarStore.com is one of the best places I've found so far, but like every other online store they aren't allowed to sell GW stuff directly on their website, but a quick phone order or adding a list to the comments section of the order (if you order some of the stuff they sell directly online, such as painting and modeling things) can get you the GW items. They are 20% off there and they have a flat rate shipping.

If you do want to support your local store I would still get the first major purchases online, such as the codex and "battle chest/force boxs." Then pick up the painting stuff locally and when you get the first box together and learn how to play and are ready to expand your army then buy those locally.

I would also suggest getting the starter box for the rulebook and the extra minis. Even if no one uses the 'nids for playing it is a good place to start learning how to paint and its just about the same price as the normal rulebook.

Painting is one of those things that can cost a lot, the paints themselves are only $2-3 each which isn't bad until you have a wide range of things to paint and need 30 different colors. Vallejo, Reaper, and GW are all good model paints, GW being the most expensive of the 3 for the amount of paint you get (they cost the same but have about half as much paint). Some people claim a huge difference in quality, but its not something I can tell. I haven't had a chance to try the Foundation series of paints from GW, but they seem like they could be useful, I don't think they would be very great for detail work or for shading, but for a quick basecoat they seem to be great. Might be worth picking up a few specific colors based on the primary colors of each army. For the painting I would spend the extra money and get GW primer, it costs a lot more then the other stuff I've tried but it is worth it. You don't want the normal primer you can pick up at Wal-Mart or a hardware store. I used the Armory primer and I was very disappointed in how it came out.

Zorg

2008-05-15, 10:33 AM

Yeah, with just a quick count I've got something in the region of 40-50 bottles of paint on my desk at the moment, so that can really add up. I only use Citadel paints, as they're what I've always used (though I use Tamiya for airbrushing) so other paints don't feel right, but that's a personal opinion.

Second hand minis can be gotten cheap, but most 'pro painted' ones go for far too much for what you get. Also with the wealth of plastics stripping is alot harder (supposedly white spirits is strong enough to take the paint off but not the plastic), but good deals can be gotten.

There are bitz sellers on ebay who sometimes sell cheap sprues of complete vehicles - I've gotten a trio of attack bikes shipped to Australia from the US for almost half what I'd pay in the store. I've also gotten a pair of Rogue Trader dreadnoughts shipped for around $15 cheaper than buying a current dread in store.

Troops do tend to be around equal though, and the big boxed deals can save a fair bit.

As for painting demos, they may have something, but it is dependant on the store. If three of you are interested enough they might even hold something for you specially if you ask. However once you get the basics it really is practice practice practice...

TheThan

2008-05-15, 10:52 AM

The battle of macrag is a good place to start.

For $50 you get some terrain, some models (good to practice on if they’re not your faction), dice, templates, a Battle for Macragge Getting Started book, and a digest-sized complete Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Compare that to buying a rulebook, dice, templates and terrain separately.

It looks like the basic intro boxes are the best way for new players to go when buying into any GW game (its about the same for LOTR or warhammer fantasy).

leperkhaun

2008-05-15, 05:35 PM

my suggestion is to head to your local game store where people play. Ask and see if anyone has an army they dont play anymore that they might sell you.

Some guys will sell them pretty cheap, others not so much, but it never hurts. A friend of mine was GIVEN a 2000 point ultramarine army.

Be prepared for it to cost a decent amount of money.

Sure a 500 point army doesnt seem like much...and maybe even a 2000 point army doesnt seem toooo much, however keep in mind that in general you will want more than the 2000 points, so you can switch out units depending on who you are playing (what army the use, what tactics they favor). Also most pick up games the players dont mind if your trooper has an autocannon on the model instead of a lascannon, but some do.

Buy the hard cases with the foam in it to put your minis in. Iv seen entire armies destroyed because someone just puts them in a box and the box gets crushed.

Here is what i recomend.

1) pick an army

2) Ask at the store if anyone has said army. Tell them you are intreasted in the army and just talk to them about it. FInd out what they are good at, what they are bad at, what units are worth investing in and which ones arnt.

3) ask that person if you could play a game with their army to try it out

4) make a plan. Meaning if you know that eventually you want a 3k point army, build it on paper. Find out how much its going to cost you.

5) Slowly build your army up to the plan, squad by squad. So buy a 500 point army. Work your way to a 1k point army, then a 1.5k army, then a 2k army...etc

that way you have an army thats playable and you dont end up with 3k worth of mini's, but no consistancy in your army.

Forgot to add: Its going to take a lot of time. Not playing, but preparing to play. Building and painting all the mini's can take a while.

Your cannon fodder can be simply painted with simple color scheme (for example for my nid army i had ~160 or so gaunts, spray paint black, paint lich purple, dry brush a couple areas, quick easy, ready to go).

Then for your BIG units (speical characters and what not) you can spend more time with them and make them stand out more.

Do NOT get into the trap of trying to super modify customize get fancy with your models until you have the skill to do so. If you are new to painting mini's take your time, after doing it a bit you will learn various things that will help you out.

Kane

2008-05-15, 06:29 PM

Okay. All of that sounds good. I'm kind of fond of assembling things, though, so I don't think I'm going to buy built minis.

Couple questions: The 'Battle for Macragge Getting started' rulebook that TheThan mention, what race/faction are the minis it comes with?

Also, Erloas, do the different paint brands have the same colors? I'm quite willing to use second party paints or whatever (except for the primer, like you said), but I'd prefer paints that are the color listed. Makes it easier to follow codex color schemes.

Oh, and, leperkhaun, you said '2000 point Ultramarine army', is that because that was the color scheme, or because the different colorschemes actually affect your army? (other than looks.)

tyckspoon

2008-05-15, 07:34 PM

In order: Space Marines and Tyranids, with a few more 'nids than Marines. Also a shrunken copy of the rules, some fairly nice terrain bits, some dice, and the standard measuring sticks and flamer and area weapon templates.

Other paint lines will have similar but probably not identical colors. They may or may not have analogues to the entire range of Citadel paints. They will also all be formulated slightly differently, so they'll behave differently in use (that is, they'll mix a little differently, cover other colors a little better or worse, and so on.) It's worth experimenting with if you can find one that is appreciably cheaper than GW's paints.

Ultramarine likely just means the typical blue paintjob. The color you paint your Marines doesn't change the rules they use, although doing them up as one of the major named chapters (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves) will make people expect you're using that chapter's special rules. That's not required, however; if you just like the way green/red/grey looks on the Marine models you can use a DA/BA/SW scheme with the normal Codex: Space Marines rules (which represent the Ultramarines way of fighting, btw; their Primarch literally wrote the book on Marine tactics.)

Dervag

2008-05-15, 09:14 PM

Ultramarines are a Space Marine chapter with a distinctive (blue) paint job. They have their own special rules, as Tyckspoon alludes to. Therefore, they're not the same as another Space Marine chapter, though they use most of the same weapons and most of the same tactics will work for them.

The best tactics for each chapter are a little different- for instance, some of them are assault monsters, some of them are good at mobile warfare, and so on.

Same goes for the Imperial Guard to some extent- there are a few 'major planets' that produce distinctive types of Guard infantry, such as the Catachan jungle fighters.

ArtifexFelicis

2008-05-15, 09:41 PM

I sense a human bias in Games Workshop. There's sadly no official rules for different Septs in The Tau, nor different Fleet of Nids or even different klans of Orksies.

Just a nitpick. I also will put this forth. Painting flesh tones sucks. A lot. Especially for beginers and on creatures then kroot or orcs or something. Be prepared to give helmets and to have subpar results at first. You will get better.

As for other things, painting with a friend can be rather fun, and while you're at the store ask what types of brushes they use. This is more personal preference and I assume you don't have much prior knowledge to artsy stuff. Learning some basic things now can really help in the long run.

Also, don't worry about things like Green stuff, Ghazgull, or anything along those lines yet. You don't need hand crafted pieces or special characters to have an awesome time.

Kane

2008-05-15, 10:49 PM

So are the special rules for each faction listed in their codexes (or is it codii?)?

And will the Macragge thing have the fifth edition rule book in it,? (in eight weeks?)

Alternately, does everyone expect the fifth edition rule book to be worth the wait, and worth a indubitably jacked-up price tag? (New release, and all.)

Edit: (I had this sitting around for a few hours because I couldn't post. Site trouble, or something.)

Also, for expanding, (assuming I start with the Tau battleforce, and a commander-type unit, which I assume is required.) what do I get first?
The Battle Force includes: one (1) Tau Crisis XV8 Battlesuit, one (1) Devilfish APC, three (3) Tau XV25 Stealth Suits, one (1) Markerlight Drone, six (6) Gun Drones, twelve (12) Tau Fire Warriors, and twelve (12) Kroot Carnivores. All models are supplied unpainted and require assembly

A vehicle like a Hammerhead, Piranah, or Sky-Ray gunship looks badass, but something like a Broadside, or a Vespid SM-killer squad might be just as useful.

Alternately, does anyone know the USD-Euro conversion rates? (I was guessing on the order of 2USD=1Euro) Because if so, this (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/aiax22.htm) looks like it might be more tonnage/firepower per dollar. Or Euro, as the case may be.

Breltar

2008-05-15, 11:43 PM

onasuma

2008-05-16, 01:17 AM

Well I'll be. No ones given the best possible advice so far. Get the stuff that looks cool.
When your starting out, its far more important to really like how your models feel. Gaming, whilst important, is rarely as great as building that first carnefix, or blowing 35 quid on a defiler just to build it. Sure, at some point your gonna want to get more into the game, which is fine. Just remember, after your compulosry hq and 2 troops, you can just blow all your other points on dreadnaughts or defilers. It the most fun you can have to feild a huge quantity of huge beasts in a low point game.

Edit: With your tau question, if they still have it around, the apocolypse battlesuit formation is where id go. 12 battlesuits nicely fills your eliets and an HQ choice. And for that matter is a huge quantity of points for very little cost comparitivly.

Zorg

2008-05-16, 05:18 AM

So are the special rules for each faction listed in their codexes (or is it codii?)?

Yes, though some have 'universal special rules' that are listed in the main rulebook (ie fearless).

And will the Macragge thing have the fifth edition rule book in it,? (in eight weeks?)

They're probably going to do a new boxed set for the new edition I'd imagine.

Alternately, does everyone expect the fifth edition rule book to be worth the wait, and worth a indubitably jacked-up price tag? (New release, and all.)

Well that's what they'll be playing in the store most likely, so unless you're not going to be gaming at a GW I'd wait. GW's prices very seldom come down from the initial release, so there's not really a benefit to waiting - if the rulebook's $90 (just a random number), it'll always be $90.

Also, for expanding, (assuming I start with the Tau battleforce, and a commander-type unit, which I assume is required.) what do I get first?
The Battle Force includes: one (1) Tau Crisis XV8 Battlesuit, one (1) Devilfish APC, three (3) Tau XV25 Stealth Suits, one (1) Markerlight Drone, six (6) Gun Drones, twelve (12) Tau Fire Warriors, and twelve (12) Kroot Carnivores. All models are supplied unpainted and require assembly

The XV8 can be used as a Commander - the other option is an Etheral.

A vehicle like a Hammerhead, Piranah, or Sky-Ray gunship looks badass, but something like a Broadside, or a Vespid SM-killer squad might be just as useful.

Vespid SM killers = Vespid SM priority targets. They'll be good for sucking down bolter rounds while the rest of your army gets into position though...

It really depends on playstyle though, which is why reading the rules and codex, then playing a few games is the best first step really. The Fighting Tigers of Veda (http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/index.htm) is a really good site with tons of tactical advice and ideas for building armies - there are articles on starting new forces, painting, gameplay and alot of battle reports (not all current edition and mostly Marines, but still worthwhile to have a look at).

Alternately, does anyone know the USD-Euro conversion rates? (I was guessing on the order of 2USD=1Euro) Because if so, this (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/aiax22.htm) looks like it might be more tonnage/firepower per dollar. Or Euro, as the case may be.

For conversions I use www.xe.com.

Note that those models you linked too are 1/300th (Epic) scale - for dudes 6mm high. The 28mm scale one (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/TAU_AIRCRAFT.html)would be around $360 USD + shipping ($240 for the AX, and $60 each for the Drones). And the drone doesn't have official rules yet (and the book with the AX's rules is another $40). Though Forgeworld stuff is awesome - my Warhound arrived today and it is sweet as.

leperkhaun

2008-05-16, 05:20 AM

The general space marine codex is built with the majority of space marines in mind and are basically the bench mark for them.

Various specific chapters have specific rules for them and they have their own codex. The blood angels, black templars, space wolves...etc. However often times they will refer you to the main space marine codex, in partifuclar for wargear.

As to the space marine army my friend got. It was a 2000 point space marine army from the regular codex. It was painted with in the ultramarine colors. I think its mentioned in the normal space marine codex, that the base of that codex is the Ultramarine chapter. They tend to stringently follow the rules of engagment/ comman structure laid out for space marines. Thats their flavor.

As to your army build, im not a Tau guy so im not sure how yours is.

As to why 'nids dont have different codexes for different fleets, its kinda unnessesary to be honest. With the amount of customization you can do through mutations, you can really build a specific army.

for paints, as far as i noticed there realy arnt any companies that make say lich purple or something similiar. HOWEVER they may make a color thats the same, but called somethign different. Iv found the GW paints to be good quality and i used them because it was just easy. The game store that sold mini's also sold the paints and inks there.

As to getting minis that are fun to paint and look cool. I would agree to do that, however dont blow your money on them at the begining. Build a playable army, then you can buy an extra mini or two to paint and look cool, or you can up when you buy that dreadnaught (buy it sooner rather than later).

Having 5 dreadnaughts looks cool, but if you dont have a large army base its going to eat your points up and taking one of them out will cut a HUGE portion of your strength. Also playing for victory points, and in the smaller armies having something that costs that much can quickly turn into a disadvantage.

Erloas

2008-05-16, 07:26 AM

The Macragge box set will have orks and marines and have a few dice, usually 2 pieces of plastic terrain and a very very toned down rulebook. The rulebook is nice since it only has the basic rules, but not so nice in the fact that it only has the basic rules and not some of the more intricate ones.

Well I haven't seen the 40k mini rulebook to say for sure but if its anything like the Fantasy started box then its going to have the full rules. The book is a lot smaller but it still includes 100% of the rules needed to play the game, at least rules that are not army specific. It will include every rule that is in the larger hardback rulebook. The difference is that they take out the extra stuff in the large rulebook, so you'll miss a lot of pictures of the armies and the majority of the fluff/background stories for the game itself and the specific armies. I think its missing things like alternate scenerio rules. The last 145 pages out of the 270 page Fantasy rulebook don't contain any rules at all and that is basically what is missing from the starter box rulebook.

As for the release of the new edition, it is pretty much a guarentee that they are going to have a new starter box set with it with the mini rulebook. Its also most likely going to be at the same price as the starter box set now, it simply replaces the old one. Not sure which armies it will include (but if you search the sites with rumors of upcoming releases they probably have a pretty good idea) but it will mostly like have Space Marines as one of the two.

As far as paints go, they all have pretty much the same colors, they just use different names. GW has copywrited most of the unique names to their line of paint just so other people can't use it, so the other companies just match the name as close as they can. GW might be Blood Red, where as another would be Carnage Red, GW is liche purple, other is undead purple, etc. Colors like ultramarine will be the same though because that is a pre-established name. If you purchase online it is probably easier to go with Vallejo or Reaper paints, but if you purchase them locally then its best to just go with whatever the local shops carry. The only issue I've had with buying Reaper paints online is out of the 32ish paints/inks/addatives I've bought I had one that the picture online and the actual color as painted seem a lot different, and 2-3 that where kind of dried out and had to have stuff added to them and remixed (and it hasn't worked all that well) but that was pretty much just because I picked up a seldom used color that the online store must have had sitting there for a long time and didn't notice it had problems. Of course I've also seen the same thing happen with local stores but it is a lot easier to find that and just pick a new bottle before you purchase. Its hardly worth the effort to return 2-3 items that only cost $2.50 in the first place.

Kane

2008-05-16, 08:45 AM

Note that those models you linked too are 1/300th (Epic) scale - for dudes 6mm high. The 28mm scale one would be around $360 USD + shipping ($240 for the AX, and $60 each for the Drones). And the drone doesn't have official rules yet (and the book with the AX's rules is another $40). Though Forgeworld stuff is awesome - my Warhound arrived today and it is sweet as.

....Que?

What is this 'Epic' stuff? And if it's so much cheaper....?

leperkhaun

2008-05-16, 08:54 AM

....Que?

What is this 'Epic' stuff? And if it's so much cheaper....?

Epic was a 40k TT game that was used to simulate LARGE battles. The minis were smaller. At the same time you could field titans and bio titans and such.

It was basically an attempt to bring out larger scale war (think more like, An entire space marine chapter, or a whole IG guard batallion instead of a couple units).

As far as i know its not offically supported anymore. Also most people dont have the stuff for it. Alot of the players who have played for a while might have some.

Kane

2008-05-16, 09:08 AM

Oh.... Ouch. I was liking that ship too....:smalleek: I don't happen to have $600 to spend on a aircraft, though...

Mr. Friendly

2008-05-16, 09:12 AM

According to this (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2008/04/rumors-5th-edition-content-details.html) the new boxed set will be $60 and includes Orks and SMurfs. It won't be out til September though.

Looks to include a heckuva lot of minis.

Bryn

2008-05-16, 09:16 AM

Epic is a game system with much smaller scale models, as illustrated in this image from Forge World:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/epic_40kcompar1.jpg
The one on the left is Epic scale. Games Workshop now provides the rules for free on the internet (http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/default.asp), as well as the other 'specialist games' such as Inquisitor (http://www.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/default.asp) (sort of like a role-playing game, features much larger, more detailed models with a supremely complicated rule set), Necromunda (http://www.specialist-games.com/necromunda/default.asp) (skirmish game featuring members of criminal gangs in a massive hive city, somewhat more complex than 40k) and Battlefleet Gothic (http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/Default.asp) (space battles between enormous, kilometres-long spaceships, very different system to 40k). Model-wise, there are very few releases for the specialist games now, but Forge World does release a number of aircraft for the game Aeronautica Imperialis (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/Aeronautica_Imperialis.html) which is in the same scale as epic; unlike Epic, the rules aren't available for free.

Epic models, and other specialist game stuff, can only be got from the Online Store; they no longer sell them in GW shops.

The battle for Macragge box set gives some very nice terrain of a crashed spaceship, but its other models aren't really so good, especially if you really enjoy building them. They are two-piece 'snap-together' models, great for beginners to the hobby, but they don't allow much posing or adjustment at all.

The rulebook that comes with the set is essentially the same as the main rulebook, but it's missing a lot of the background sections, as well as some specialist rules such as Kill Team and Combat Patrol. Due to being paperback rather than hardback it tends to deteriorate quickly, and I had to replace mine with the full rulebook.

If you're going to play Space Marines or Tyranids, and you know of somebody who wants to play the other, and you want a nice simple introduction to the game, then the Battle for Macragge is worth it. If not, I wouldn't get it - you can probably get the crashed spaceship on Ebay somewhere.

When Fifth Edition comes out, they probably aren't going to replace too many of the codices (which is the proper English plural, although Games Workshop prefers to call the plural codexes). They are going to replace Space Marines, so your friend might want to hold out for a bit.

Were-Sandwich

2008-05-16, 02:08 PM

I'd seriously recommend going into your local store and asking if you can play one of the Trial Games first, to make sure you absolutely WANT to play Warhammer 40K. :smallwink:

QFT. I cannot state this enough. I spent £200 on marines, only to realise after a month or two that I thought the game was crap.

I'll also say the thing I say to all the 'I want to start 40K' people: Try other games before taking the plunge. Try, WARMACHINE, HORDES, Stargrunt, Chain Reaction, Flames of War, Full Thrust, any game you can get your hands on, borrow/proxy models, and play a few games. It can't hurt to try. Odds are you'll find something you like, and it'll probably be a damn sight better/cheaper than that POS GW ships out. (*Is bitter*)

Erloas

2008-05-16, 02:56 PM

QFT. I cannot state this enough. I spent £200 on marines, only to realise after a month or two that I thought the game was crap.

I'll also say the thing I say to all the 'I want to start 40K' people: Try other games before taking the plunge. Try, WARMACHINE, HORDES, Stargrunt, Chain Reaction, Flames of War, Full Thrust, any game you can get your hands on, borrow/proxy models, and play a few games. It can't hurt to try. Odds are you'll find something you like, and it'll probably be a damn sight better/cheaper than that POS GW ships out. (*Is bitter*)

Well the last part is just asking for flames... (as a side to that though, just a month or two with the gaming system leaves a lot unknown. Playing with bad players can make even a great system seem bad and with only a short time of playing the chance of running into a wide range of good players is slim. Personally I've only played 40k a couple times and I like Fantasy a lot better from what I've seen so far. Personal opinion on how a game should work is also a big factor, a highly skrimish based system on a large scale battle design doesn't work for me but some people don't like systems that aren't completely skrimish based. Doesn't mean I don't think those types of games are crap, but they aren't for me.)

But as for checking out other games it isn't a bad idea at all in theory, but in practice it can be completely impractical. The biggest advantage of GW games is because they have been around for a long time and they have a bigger player base. Depending where you live it could be difficult or impossible to find players for any other games. Where I live now I was lucky to even find 40k players and there isn't any other option. Personally I'm looking at a 150mile drive to even check out other game systems. Even when I was in Phoenix with a lot of local shops a number of them carried the other systems but they didn't have a lot of players.

Even Battletech which has been around a long time it can be hard to find groups for. Where I live now the only way I've been able to get anyone to play is by having everything I need to play for multiple people and adding it to the games the local group does play.

A game system simply doesn't work without players. Most table top gamers are open to trying a lot of systems, its just that most people don't have the money to invest in more then 1-2 of them. A good option is to find a game with players you like and get the group going then slowly spread into other games.

Inhuman Bot

2008-05-16, 03:14 PM

First idea: try DoW. WH is really expensive. If you still want toplay ( I havent read earlier posts) but:
1. Get the base units. 2 troops. 1 hq. If you have leniant freinds, you can proxy them for simmalir units so you can decied what you like and what you don't.
2. Get the units you know you like.
3. Don't glue in tank gn sponsons. you can swap them out for a game by game bases.
4. Consider a theme of somesort. A "good old fashoned horde" is lots of grunts, some elite units no vehicles.
5. Make your army decent at everything (if possible). If you are playing space marines, for example, then get a devastator squad, and give them 2 Heavy bolters, a plasma cannon and a lascannon.
6. Don't buy expensive weapons for low BS units. I know that rokkit launchas are nad for orkboy mobs, and don't get deathwind missles for drop pods. They just don't hit.

DraPrime

2008-05-16, 08:57 PM

I myself have been considering taking up WH40k. The necrons seem really cool, but are they a good army to start with?

Swordguy

2008-05-16, 09:53 PM

I myself have been considering taking up WH40k. The necrons seem really cool, but are they a good army to start with?

From what perspective? They're expensive, points-wise, so you don't need to buy a lot, and they're hellaciously easy to paint. They're also pretty darn effective on the tabletop (less so than they used to be, though - though they started from a position of absolute cheese).

You won't have a whole lot of assault-y units, if you like that...but they're not a bad starter force, all things considered.

To everyone else: I look at $500 US as the minimum investment to have a "usable" force (about 1200-1500 points) if you're starting from scratch. I also highly recommend Vallejo paints for solid colors - but the Citadel metallics are the best in the industry.

Breltar

2008-05-19, 10:31 PM

Kane

2008-05-20, 08:49 AM

Thank you for the advice. I actually did go to GW on Saturday, with my friends. It was quite remarkable how much they managed to fit into a tiny mall shop. Anyway, while there, the guys who run the store seemed to be a couple of hardasses. (They had a tiny 1.5x1.5 terrain table for 'demos', and let Bomb and Matthias do a Battle of Macragge mission. Then they let me play them, and then we couldn't do anything else. (just look around.) We also couldn't sit down, because this family was in and sat in the store's painting chairs for the entire day, painting their stuff with the store's free paints.)

But aside from my *****ing, it was pretty cool. One of the guys was pretty friendly, and we did pick up some plastic glue, and a Battle for Macragge set. We couldn't afford paints, but we think we'll assemble it next time we're hanging out, and then give it a shot, un-painted. If we really like it, I think I'm still going to be doing Tau, but IG is a close second. Why? Because on one of their gametables at the GW store, there was around 2700 points of Necron infantry vs. a Imperial Guard Armored Company. Three basilisks, a Leman Russ pack, and a few other tanks. I think the IG got owned, but probably only because he was playing on a rather small table. (or large, just playing in the small direction.) Now, aside from getting owned, I really like the expression on his opponent's face when he won first turn, and got to open up with his artillery. :smallbiggrin:

So it seems we must spend:
$50 on the BfM starter set. [already have it, I chipped in $20]
$50 on a paint kit (I think we should buy one each.)
$50 for a new rule book. (when it comes out.)
$22 for a codex (all the ones Bomb had are out of date.)
$10 on Primer. (sold separately.)

$152 + about 11 dollars in tax, just for beginning. *winces*

Then, from what I'm thinking, about $265 + tax for a tau 'battle force' and a 'mega battle force', two separate packages respectively. (Not worried about these; give a hammerhead, two devil fish, a few dozen fire warriors, two squads of stealth suits, and several battlesuits between them. (no Broadsides, though)

Also, since I'm new, can I ask whether any Tau units have a 'spray' attack like the Flamer? (auto hit, just roll for damage. I got to use one in my demo.)

LBO

2008-05-20, 10:09 AM

Crisis battlesuits can be given flamers.

Erloas

2008-05-20, 12:53 PM

So it seems we must spend:
$50 on the BfM starter set. [already have it, I chipped in $20]
$50 on a paint kit (I think we should buy one each.)
$50 for a new rule book. (when it comes out.)
$22 for a codex (all the ones Bomb had are out of date.)
$10 on Primer. (sold separately.)

$152 + about 11 dollars in tax, just for beginning. *winces*

Then, from what I'm thinking, about $265 + tax for a tau 'battle force' and a 'mega battle force', two separate packages respectively. (Not worried about these; give a hammerhead, two devil fish, a few dozen fire warriors, two squads of stealth suits, and several battlesuits between them. (no Broadsides, though)

Which paint kit are you looking at? Looking at GW's site I couldn't tell which you are planning on getting. For brushes I would just get them from a local craft store. For paints if you are looking at a big set I would just get one for the group then have each person pick up any colors multiple people need. White, black, metalic silver are very common, but a lot of the other colors will probably only be needed by one army unless you happen to all pick similiar color schemes. You aren't likely to need that many yellows for example.

I would get the codex first and build some low point armylists and see what you need to get from there. The big box sets are sometimes a good deal and sometimes they have a lot of stuff you aren't going to really need. Getting more then 1-2 vehicles is a bit of a waste if its going to be 6 months or more before you get to large enough battles to use that many for instance.

Breltar

2008-05-20, 03:41 PM

You should also see if there are any local hobby stores around that carry GW products since the official GW stores very rarely have anything on sale in my experience. GW stores are also pretty crappy for actually going and playing there, since the majority of them appear in malls and have very small gaming tables, mostly for demonstrations.

When I played almost religiously in Seattle, there was a spectacular local store there that had 8 full size (4'x6' or bigger) tables and enough seating for at least 8 people per table. The local one here in Lexington is great too, even though I am out of the 40k scene.

I once got 3 Rhinos for 20 dollars from the Seattle store when the new Rhino transports came out. Work the same and you wouldnt likely find any deals even close to that at a GW store.

Ive also found folks at the local stores more willing to try out other games I have taken fancy to, from pen and paper RPGs to Sci Fi space games.