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ShadowSiege
2008-05-15, 11:45 PM
Original articles: You and Your Magic Items (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080516a), The Quest's the Thing (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080516b), and Shadar-kai Art Preview (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/art_preview/20080516_114853_0.jpg)

Magic Items article:
Excerpts: You and Your Magic Items
4th Edition Player's Handbook

In today’s preview, we asked Andy Collins to reveal a bit more about the role your magic items play in 4th Edition. Then we present three such items for your characters to quest after!

We’ve been saying for a long time that we wanted magic items in 4th Edition to take up a smaller portion of a typical character’s array of options than in previous editions. The primary method used to accomplish this was to expand the average character’s class- and race-based power options. Even if a 4th Edition PC carried around the same array of gear as his 3rd Edition counterpart, you could still honestly say that those items were a smaller percentage of his options than before.

However, that semantic flourish wouldn’t really change the perception among many players that the average character simply had to carry around too many items to keep up with the foes he faced. Between six different stat-boosting items and at least three AC-boosting items (four counting shields), the typical player character faced an enormous drain on resources simply to stay competitive with the enemy. Something needed to change.

In 4th Edition, only three magic items are important for your attacks and defenses to keep up with the escalating power of the monsters you face. These are your weapon, your armor, and your amulet or cloak (also known as your neck-slot item). Together, they enhance your attack rolls, damage rolls, and all four of your defense scores.

The game assumes that the “plus” of each of these three items follows the normal enhancement curve of items in the game: +1 from 1st to 5th level, +2 from 6th to 10th, and on up to +6 from 26th to 30th. Many (perhaps even most) characters will have at least one item slightly ahead or behind this curve, but if you’re more than a couple of points ahead of or behind the expected progression, you may find your foes notably less (or more) challenging than normal.

Beyond those three key items, characters are free to accessorize in whatever manner they prefer. If you like to carry only the choicest items, picking and choosing the most powerful pieces of equipment that you can find or afford, that’s a reasonable plan. In fact, you could reasonably survive with just a good weapon, a good suit of armor, and a good neck-slot item.

On the other hand, if you prefer to wield a larger array of lower-powered magic items, that’s OK too… with some caveats. Most items are tied to body slots, so there’s a built-in limit to the sheer quantity of items most characters can easily tote around. In addition, each character can only activate a few different magic item powers in a given day, so the guy who brings a loaded pack full of flashy items doesn’t get as much bang for his buck. Again, your class powers should be the main focus of your character, not the precious little trinkets you swiped from cave-dwelling fiends.
--Andy Collins




As you gain levels, the mundane equipment you purchased as a starting character becomes less important; it’s overshadowed by the magic items you acquire on your adventures. Magic armor that can cloak you in shadow, magic weapons that burst into flame, magic rings that turn you invisible, or Ioun stones that orbit your head to grant you great capabilities—these items enhance and supplement the powers you gain from your class and enhance your attacks and defenses.

Magic items have levels, just as characters, powers, and monsters do. An item’s level is a general measure of its power and translates to the average level of character using that item. In practice, your character will end up with some items that are three or four levels above your level and others that are several levels below. There’s no restriction on using or acquiring items based on their level, except that you can’t use the Enchant Magic Item ritual (page 304 of the Player's Handbook) to create an item above your level. If, for some reason, your 10th-level character finds a 20th-level magic sword, you can use it to full effect.

You can sometimes buy magic items just as you can mundane equipment. It’s rare to find a shop or a bazaar that routinely sells magic items, except perhaps the lowest-level items. Some fantastic places, such as the legendary City of Brass in the heart of the Elemental Chaos, have such markets, but those are the exception rather than the rule. Your DM might say that you can track down a seller for the item you want to buy or that you might have to do some searching, but in general you can buy any item you can afford.

You can also use the Enchant Magic Item ritual to create an item of your level or lower. In terms of the economic transaction, creating an item is the same as buying it: You spend money equal to the market price of the item and acquire the item. Some DMs prefer to have characters enchant their own items rather than buy them, particularly for more powerful items.

As you adventure, you’ll come across magic items as part of the treasure you acquire. Often, these are magic items much higher than your level—items you can’t enchant and can’t easily afford to buy. Ideally, these are items that someone in your party can use effectively, which makes them very rewarding treasure.

If you find a magic item you don’t want to keep, or you find an item that replaces an item you already have, you might end up either selling the item or disenchanting it (with the Disenchant Magic Item ritual; see page 304 of the Player's Handbook). This isn’t a favorable transaction for you—the sale price of a magic item, or the value of residuum you get from disenchanting it, is only one-fifth the normal price of the item. That means selling an item gives you enough money or residuum to buy or enchant an item that’s five levels lower than the original item.
Identifying Magic Items

Most of the time, you can determine the properties and powers of a magic item during a short rest. In the course of handling the item for a few minutes, you discover what the item is and what it does. You can identify one magic item per short rest.

Some magic items might be a bit harder to identify, such as cursed or nonstandard items, or powerful magical artifacts. Your DM might ask for an Arcana check to determine their properties, or you might even need to go on a special quest to find a ritual to identify or to unlock the powers of a unique item.
Prices

The purchase price of a permanent magic item depends on its level, as shown on the table below. The purchase price of a consumable item (such as a potion or an elixir) is much lower than the price of a permanent item of the same level. The sale price of a magic item (the amount a PC gets from either selling or disenchanting an item) is one-fifth of the purchase price.

Prices shown are the base market price for the items. The actual cost to purchase a magic item depends on supply and demand and might be 10 to 40 percent more than the base market price.

Magic Item Prices (first 10 levels)
Item Level Purchase Price (gp) Sale Price (gp)*
1 360 72
2 520 104
3 680 136
4 840 168
5 1,000 200
6 1,800 360
7 2,600 520
8 3,400 680
9 4,200 840
10 5,000 1,000

* Or equivalent gold piece value of residuum acquired from disenchanting an item
Magic Item Categories

Magic items fall into seven broad categories: armor, weapons, implements, clothing, rings, wondrous items, and potions. Items in a particular category have similar effects—all magic weapons give you bonuses when you attack with them, and all magic boots have powers relating to movement. Aside from those broad generalities, though, magic items possess a wide variety of powers and properties.

Within the broad category of clothing, items are grouped by kind of clothing—whether you wear the item on your head or your feet, for example. These are called item slots, and they provide a practical limit to the number of magic items you can wear and use. You can benefit from only one magic item that you wear in your arms slot even if, practically speaking, you can wear bracers and carry a shield at the same time. You benefit from the item you put on first; any other item you put in the same item slot doesn’t function for you until you take off the first item. Sometimes there are physical limitations as well—you can’t wear two helms at the same time.

Wondrous items include a variety of useful tools, from a bag of holding to a flying carpet. Each item’s description indicates how a character accesses its effects.

All magic armor gives you an enhancement bonus to your Armor Class. All magic weapons and implements give you an enhancement bonus to your attack rolls and damage rolls when you use them to make an attack. All magic cloaks, amulets, and other neck slot items give you an enhancement bonus to your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will defenses. Other magic items don’t generally give you bonuses to these numerical statistics, though there are some exceptions.

Flaming Weapon
Level 5+
You can will this weapon to burst into flame.
Lvl 5 +1 1,000 gp Lvl 20 +4 125,000 gp
Lvl 10 +2 5,000 gp Lvl 25 +5 625,000 gp
Lvl 15 +3 25,000 gp Lvl 30 +6 3,125,000 gp
Weapon: Any
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 fire damage per plus
Power (At-Will Fire): Free Action. All damage dealt by this weapon is fire damage. Another free action returns the damage to normal.
Power (Daily Fire): Free Action. Use this power when you hit with the weapon. Deal an extra 1d6 fire damage, and the target takes ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
Level 15 or 20: 2d6 fire damage and ongoing 10 fire damage.
Level 25 or 30: 3d6 fire damage and ongoing 15 fire damage.

Phasing Weapon
Level 14+
This weapon’s projectiles phase in and out of reality when fired, slipping through cover as if it weren’t there.
Lvl 14 +3 21,000 gp Lvl 24 +5 525,000 gp
Lvl 19 +4 105,000 gp Lvl 29 +6 2,625,000 gp
Weapon: Any ranged
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 damage per plus
Property: Your ranged attacks with the weapon ignore the penalty to attack rolls for cover or superior cover.

Holy Avenger
Level 25+
The most prized weapon of any paladin.
Lvl 25 +5 625,000 gp Lvl 30 +6 3,125,000 gp
Weapon: Axe, Hammer, Heavy Blade
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 radiant damage per plus, and you can spend a healing surge
Property: A holy avenger deals an extra 1d10 radiant damage when the power you use to make the attack has the radiant keyword.
Power (Daily): Minor Action. You and each ally within 10 squares of you gain a +5 power bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will defenses until the end of your next turn.
Special: A holy avenger can be used as a holy symbol. It adds its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls and the extra damage granted by its property (if applicable) when used in this manner. You do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus to an attack roll when using a holy avenger as an implement.



Quest article:

Excerpts: The Quest’s the Thing
4th Edition Dungeon Master's Guide

Earlier, we looked at the quest rewards, but what of the quests themselves? In today’s preview, R&D’s Stephen Radney-MacFarland explains the philosophy behind Quest XP… and why every character will want to earn some!

Everyone knows that in Dungeons & Dragons you earn experience points to gain levels. Heck, even people who have never played D&D know this— it’s become so ingrained in the pop-culture idea of the game and its mechanic has replicated itself with great frequency into the realm of digital games. But just how you gain XP has evolved since the game’s inception, and with 4th Edition it’s continued to evolve. One of the biggest evolutions in 4th Edition D&D is the inclusion of quest XP rewards.

Now, I can hear the old timers quibble: “Come on, Stephen, quest XP is nothing new, I’ve been doing it for years.” And if you quibble thusly, you’d be right. Almost every D&D campaign out there grants a bit of bonus XP for completing story objectives, and this has been going since the first time a gamer lifted a d20 and stared at it in glossy-eyed wonder. The big difference between 4th Edition and older D&D editions is that we designed it into the game; it’s not just an afterthought, an ad hoc idea, or a suggested house rule. We actually took into account that people already do this, then gave better guidelines on how to do it well, and crafted the numbers behind character advancement with quests in mind.

Dungeons & Dragons is both a combat game and a storytelling game. Fighting foul beasts and despicable villains is fun. The grand majority of pages in our rulebooks give you the means and the toys you need to play that part of the game. Storytelling by its nature is more fluid, more natural; it has few (if any) hard and fast rules, but many guidelines and points of advice. While D&D abounds with levels, powers, shifts, opportunity attacks, effects that push, ongoing damage, and grabs, it also features heroes (or, soft-hearted scoundrels) who take chances to achieve goals that we can only dream of doing and in ways that are only as boundless as our imagination. It’s purely in the realm of action adventure. And when action and story fuse perfectly, it’s gaming ambrosia—the perfect way to spend an afternoon with friends.

Quest XP, and the idea of quests as benchmarks for rewards in a larger sense (the story chapter ends where characters gain a pile of rewards in the form of XP, treasure, favors, titles, castles, whatever) is a rare, evocative, satisfying, and natural way for those two aspects of the game to talk to one another directly.

Quests also serve as the DM’s dangling carrot. Not only do they say “fun lies this way,” now they also point to rewards with some amount of transparency. People like to have an idea of the rewards they will get for tasks… or at least the minimum rewards. Your players are no different. Quests are a way in which they’ll have a basic idea of the minimum rewards for what they do, and they’ll appreciate it. You’ll find this very handy if you create a more sandbox approach to quests. Throw a few of them out there, and see which ones they bite at. Using quests in this manner allows you to make your world seem larger than it really is, and let your players make more choices for their characters, encouraging them to invest themselves even further in your creation.
XP Evolutionary Dead Ends

Quest XP is one of the newest evolutions in how PCs gain experience in D&D, but it didn’t get to this point without some other experience point ideas dying off. Let’s take a quick look at three XP evolutionary dead ends that got us where we are today.

Treasure Worth = XP

Isn’t treasure supposed to be its own reward? The problem in early D&D is that it wasn’t. In fact you couldn’t do a whole lot with treasure except for accumulate it and gain XP from it. That’s right; you gained XP just for picking up a gold piece. To be fair, how much you gained was based on how much challenge the treasure’s guardian represented, but a simpler method is to place the challenge XP fully in the guardian (in 4th Edition, this means the monsters, traps, hazards, or skill challenge) and let wealth be the reward wealth is by its very nature—purchasing power.

The Teeny, Tiny, Micro Story Reward

Back in my early days of the RPGA (2nd Edition AD&D), we used to get “story rewards” for the craziest things. Did you talk to the mayor? Gain 10 XP! Did you pick the flower that the mayor told you not to pick? 15 XP! Did you buy a pickle from the vendor on the Avenue of Swords? 25 XP! These story rewards were so pointless, small, and absolutely endemic that you would spend large chunks of the adventure talking to everyone you could just so you would get them all. These ideas were prevalent in a period of time where writers wanted to write wacky guess-what-the-writer-is-thinking stories, not sword and sorcery action stories, and pulled the PCs along a long line of encounters as “helpful” benchmarks. The problem was that it didn’t feel like D&D. This was especially true when you played through adventures based on the lyrics of 70’s pop songs or adventure where you got to play characters that were magic items, children, or furniture (I’m not joking).

The Roleplaying Reward

I’ve seen a lot of games (both in early RPGA and home games) that gave XP for good roleplaying. By good roleplaying do I mean the quality of your character acting? The problem with the roleplaying reward is this: You’re almost always going to give out the maximum to everyone at the table. Why? Because telling someone that they didn’t do a good job of roleplaying in a game where everyone is there to have fun seems overly judgmental, can create hurt feelings, and is… well… just downright crappy. It’s also so very meta and arbitrary that it begs questions about other forms of bonus XP. Why not give similar bonus XP for rule knowledge? Playing well with others? Bringing the most snacks?
--Stephen Radney-MacFarland




Quests are the fundamental story framework of an adventure—the reason the characters want to participate in it. They’re the reason an adventure exists, and they indicate what the characters need to do to solve the situation the adventure presents.

The simplest adventures revolve around a single quest, usually one that gives everyone in the party a motivation to pursue it. More complex adventures involve multiple quests, including quests related to individual characters’ goals or quests that conflict with each other, presenting characters with interesting choices about which goals to pursue.
Using Basic Quest Seeds

When you’re devising a simple adventure, one to three basic seeds are enough to get you started. A classic dungeon adventure uses three: The characters set out to explore a dangerous place, defeat the monsters inside, and take the treasure they find. One simple quest can be enough, such as a quest to slay a dragon.

You can combine any number of basic seeds to create a more multifaceted adventure. The more seeds you throw in the mix, the more intricate your adventure will be. You might add timing elements to one or more of the seeds to create more depth in your adventure.

Once you have your seed or seeds, you can start getting specific. Go back and answer the questions in “Components of an Adventure” on page 100, keeping your quest seeds in mind. Again, you don’t need to follow any particular order. You might come up with a set of monsters you want to use first, you might invent a cool place or item, or you might choose a seed or three. You can then use Chapter 4 and the “Adventure Setting” section of this chapter to help flesh out your adventure.
Major Quests

Major quests define the fundamental reasons that characters are involved. They are the central goals of an adventure. A single major quest is enough to define an adventure, but a complex adventure might involve a number of different quests. A major quest should be important to every member of the party, and completing it should define success in the adventure. Achieving a major quest usually means either that the adventure is over, or that the characters have successfully completed a major chapter in the unfolding plot.

Don’t be shy about letting the players know what their quests are. Give the players an obvious goal, possibly a known villain to go after, and a clear course to get to their destination. That avoids searching for the fun—aimless wandering, arguing about trivial choices, and staring across the table because the players don’t know what to do next. You can fiddle with using another secret villain or other less obvious courses, but one obvious path for adventure that is not wrong or fake should exist. You can count on the unpredictability of player actions to keep things interesting even in the simplest of adventure plots.

Thinking in terms of quests helps focus the adventure solidly where it belongs: on the player characters. An adventure isn’t something that can unfold without their involvement. A plot or an event can unfold without the characters’ involvement, but not an adventure. An adventure begins when the characters get involved, when they have a reason to participate and a goal to accomplish. Quests give them that.
Minor Quests

Minor quests are the subplots of an adventure, complications or wrinkles in the overall story. The characters might complete them along the way toward finishing a major quest, or they might tie up the loose ends of minor quests after they’ve finished the major quest.

Often, minor quests matter primarily to a particular character or perhaps a subset of the party. Such quests might be related to a character’s background, a player goal, or the ongoing events in the campaign relevant to one or more characters. These quests still matter to the party overall. This game is a cooperative game, and everyone shares the rewards for completing a quest. Just make sure that the whole group has fun completing minor quests tied to a single character.

Sometimes minor quests come up as sidelines to the main plot of the adventure. For example, say the characters learn in town that a prisoner has escaped from the local jail. That has nothing to do with the main quest. It pales in importance next to the hobgoblin raids that have been plundering caravans and seizing people for slaves. However, when the characters find and free some of the hobgoblins’ slaves, the escaped prisoner is among them. Do they make sure he gets back to the jail? Do they accept his promise to go straight—and his offer of a treasure map—and let him go free? Do they believe his protestations of innocence and try to help him find the real criminal? Any of these goals can launch a side quest, but clearly the characters can’t pursue all of them. This situation gives them the opportunity to roleplay and make interesting choices, adding richness and depth to the game.

Be sure to return Monday for a look at minions!


I haven't read em yet, but I'll make the super easy prediction of some people comparing what they see to video games/MOREPIGs/WoW (Golden Question Marks!), others will just hate it all, others will blindingly love it all, and a whole spectrum between.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-15, 11:53 PM
Besides having Ivy's sword, man, those Shadar-Kai look pretty sweet.

Rutee
2008-05-15, 11:56 PM
So only 3 items matter, and the rest are trinkets?

...I disbelieve, but we shall see. That'd be a nice way to go though.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-15, 11:57 PM
Yeah, the Punch-daggers are cool, so is the Falchion, and that Arcanist is hot, and IS THAT A SPIKED CHAIN?!? SERIOUSLY? After every objection everyone made, they still put it in 4.x. Ah, WotC, do you NOT LEARN?:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

Rockphed
2008-05-16, 12:12 AM
I don't feel like reading the whole Quests thing right now, but it looks helpful for new DMs.

And a limit on how many Magic Items you can use in a day? Interesting...

ShadowSiege
2008-05-16, 12:14 AM
I don't feel like reading the whole Quests thing right now, but it looks helpful for new DMs.

And a limit on how many Magic Items you can use in a day? Interesting...

The quest article also mentioned quest seeds, which look to be a help for even experienced DMs that are dealing with a writer's block, but it's dependent upon just how many quest seeds there are. It can't help but be an improvement on 3e's "100 random quest ideas!"

Draz74
2008-05-16, 12:16 AM
The quest-article picture of the red queen on her throne looks like it comes from WoW! :smallfurious:

Just kidding.

Although I did take one look at that picture and think that it looked like it was a screenshot of a video game. But not WoW, some other MMO perhaps. (Guild Wars or EverQuest 2?) Blizzard's style is more cartoony.

I was actually relatively pleased with the magic items article. For one thing, it looks like magic items can actually scale, in a way that perhaps will make it easy to house-rule Legacy Items systems (so you don't throw away your beloved Level 7 weapon when you find a Level 10 weapon that's more powerful ... you wait for your Level 7 weapon to upgrade itself to Level 12 instead!)

Quests were meh. Not enough specifics to make it an interesting excerpt.

As for the Shadar-Kai ... and people thought Tieflings were the angsty anti-hero race? Well, I guess you have to have goths to go with your emos.

Dumbledore lives
2008-05-16, 12:25 AM
Wow, the dwarf in the second picture in the quest link has a Huuuuuuge beard. Seems better system though, less reliance on magic items hopefully.

Chronicled
2008-05-16, 12:27 AM
As for the Shadar-kai arcanist...

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd80/AwXomeMan/morbo.jpg
HAIR DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!


Ahem. The magic items article looks good. In fact, I'm glad to see 4e moving in a direction farther away from WoW than 3.5 was--reliance on your own abilities, rather than turning yourself into a minature Mech.

Low-magic setting lovers, rejoice.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-16, 12:32 AM
As for the Shadar-kai arcanist...

[morbo]
HAIR DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!


Ahem. The magic items article looks good. In fact, I'm glad to see 4e moving in a direction farther away from WoW than 3.5 was--reliance on your own abilities, rather than turning yourself into a minature Mech.

Low-magic setting lovers, rejoice.I'm honestly still trying to understand how they still have the Spiked Chain. I mean, I doubt anyone considers it a viable weapon against armor IRL, but WotC made it appear again in the new edition. Why. Is there any justification for that? They're trashing Gnomes, but they can't trash one of the dumbest weapons out there? This is the sort of thing that makes me doubt 4.0, no matter what previews say.

Rutee
2008-05-16, 12:35 AM
I'm honestly still trying to understand how they still have the Spiked Chain. I mean, I doubt anyone considers it a viable weapon against armor IRL, but WotC made it appear again in the new edition. Why. Is there any justification for that? They're trashing Gnomes, but they can't trash one of the dumbest weapons out there? This is the sort of thing that makes me doubt 4.0, no matter what previews say.

...Because it looks cool? God forbid that the heroic fantasy game /doesn't overly concern itself with realism/.

Abardam
2008-05-16, 12:36 AM
Yep, looks like they toned down the magic items. But get this: 1/day, you can set someone on fire.

Set. Someone. On. Fire.



Also, nice cloak there, tiefling.

ShadowSiege
2008-05-16, 12:38 AM
As for the Shadar-Kai ... and people thought Tieflings were the angsty anti-hero race? Well, I guess you have to have goths to go with your emos.

The Shadar-kai live on the Shadowfel (Shadow Plane if you must insist on Great Wheel cosmology). Not a whole lot of fun and happiness in the realm of the dead. Also, they're more the BDSM crowd, IIRC it is because they believe if they don't feel anything then they'll stop existing. Or something.


I'm honestly still trying to understand how they still have the Spiked Chain. I mean, I doubt anyone considers it a viable weapon against armor IRL, but WotC made it appear again in the new edition. Why. Is there any justification for that? They're trashing Gnomes, but they can't trash one of the dumbest weapons out there? This is the sort of thing that makes me doubt 4.0, no matter what previews say.

The drawing makes me think it is more like a whip made out of razor wire. Certainly not a spiked chain. And yes, I can justify it: Wrap that sucker around someone's limb and draw it tight. Choo-choo! The Pain-chain train's a comin' :p

Starsinger
2008-05-16, 12:53 AM
I really like the magic items article. Particularly the Holy Avenger. It's like a Paladin's best friend all over again. And now I want to play a paladin so I can use a Holy Avenger.

As for the quest article, well that's good. I'm really more excited about the magic items.

Abardam
2008-05-16, 12:56 AM
Have you seen the Shadar-kai chainfighter, though. Dance of Death is frikkin' sweet. Sweet enough to outbalance the ridiculousness of the spiked chain.

Inyssius Tor
2008-05-16, 12:57 AM
Yeah, the Punch-daggers are cool, so is the Falchion, and that Arcanist is hot, and IS THAT A SPIKED CHAIN?!? SERIOUSLY? After every objection everyone made, they still put it in 4.x. Ah, WotC, do you NOT LEARN?:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

Well, the spiked chain is kind of the Shadar-Kai weapon of choice; if they removed it they would be unnecessarily changing the fluff (oh noes!). Look at it this way: the Githyanki have those weird mercury-swords, but you don't see them in the Arms and Equipment chapter of the Player's Handbook...

Morandir Nailo
2008-05-16, 01:01 AM
...Because it looks cool? God forbid that the heroic fantasy game /doesn't overly concern itself with realism/.

I couldn't agree more. Same goes for the dire flail. It would also go for sword-chucks, should someone decide to actually stat them out and use them. Looking cool is more important than replicating the real world.

Back on topic, I also like the new magic items. I've always hated the "christmas tree effect" and I think it's great that all items have powers that are more than just a numerical bonus. I also love the new enchantment/disenchantment system, as it allows me to completely ignore the previous article about treasure (i.e. "PCs will never encounter magic items beneath their notice"). I can give my NPCs whatever gear they need, and if the PCs don't want/need it, they can just suck the magic out of it. I keep my verisimilitude and the PCs get their reward. Everybody wins!

Mor

Jarlax
2008-05-16, 01:07 AM
these "preveiws" were a little bit of a cop out, they didn't tell us anything new aside from seeing a few really nice weapon enchantments. both magic items and quest XP were covered in the rewards article last week.

that said the new magic weapons are awsome. arrows that shoot through cover, a holy avenger than counts as a holy symbol. if moradin makes it into 4e pantheon i will have a dwarf cleric just to have a hammer as a holy symbol.

Timberboar
2008-05-16, 01:18 AM
Looks more like a razorwhip than a spiked chain to me.

Anyway, it could be worse.

Exhibit A: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightwhip

F.H. Zebedee
2008-05-16, 01:22 AM
On the Shadar-Kai... Anybody else think "Zuko in drag"?

Reel On, Love
2008-05-16, 01:30 AM
On the Shadar-Kai... Anybody else think "Zuko in drag"?

*google*

No... because we're not all obsessed with animu.

Rutee
2008-05-16, 01:52 AM
Oh you British and your deadpan humor. Either that or I need my Infinity Plus One Herring.

Quellian-dyrae
2008-05-16, 02:28 AM
So glad to see that they finally decided to put an end to ridiculously expensive and time consuming Identify spells.

ShadowSiege
2008-05-16, 03:23 AM
So glad to see that they finally decided to put an end to ridiculously expensive and time consuming Identify spells.

Indeed. Analyze Dweomer took care of the identification process at higher levels, but was still a necessity.

Starsinger
2008-05-16, 03:27 AM
I'm not sure what I consider more meta-game. Knowing what an item does off hand, or having a spell tell you mechanics...

bosssmiley
2008-05-16, 03:46 AM
So only 3 items matter, and the rest are trinkets?

...I disbelieve, but we shall see. That'd be a nice way to go though.

I think it's a case of only three items now affect your To Hit/AC scores. Which is a definite improvement on the D&D3's dozen or so bonus types (enhancement, insight, sacred, dodge, etc...) pushed characters into crazytown.

Between that and level appropriate items the magic loot seems a case of 'so far so K/Frank "Book of Gears" then'. :smallamused:

Quest XP - nothing that wasn't unexpected. A way of incentivising with the XP carrot rather than the railroading stick is always welcome. Although it does run the risk of quest logs and players asking about whether a character looks like he has a floating speech bubble...

Shadar-Kai - that's Shadar-Kai spelt "D-R-O-W". How else do you typify their 'cooler than thou' aesthetic and mythos than Drow 2.0? Pure fanboi-bait. :smallannoyed:

Inyssius Tor
2008-05-16, 03:59 AM
I'm not sure what I consider more meta-game. Knowing what an item does off hand ...
That's not exactly what the post says, but I take your point. What they have isn't too bad, but it does have some glaring flaws. For example, I don't see how you could discover a sword's otyugh-bane property by messing with it for a few minutes unless the previous owner was nice enough to scratch little pictures of all his otyugh kills on the hilt or something. And I wouldn't really want to try my luck at identifying an arrow whose magical property is that it explodes violently when fired.

... or having a spell tell you mechanics...
First off, I don't know what you're referring to here. Second... meh, tired, will respond intelligently in ten hours if by some bizarre fluke no one else has yet made my point better than I ever could.

Starsinger
2008-05-16, 04:04 AM
First off, I don't know what you're referring to here. Second... meh, tired, will respond intelligently in ten hours if by some bizarre fluke no one else has yet made my point better than I ever could.

That's how Identify works in 3.5 isn't it? You cast the spell for an hour and you find out that you have a +3 Flaming Longsword.

Oslecamo
2008-05-16, 04:08 AM
Anyone noticed that buying is basically the same as crafting the items, and that selling them is the same as enchanting? Or did I miss something?

Also, still no proof that a character can make a weapon get stronger just because he levels up. There are just 6 versions of the same weapon, each one with a bigger price, just like gloves of deterity +2/+4/+6 in 3e.

Mewtarthio
2008-05-16, 04:11 AM
That's not exactly what the post says, but I take your point. What they have isn't too bad, but it does have some glaring flaws. For example, I don't see how you could discover a sword's otyugh-bane property by messing with it for a few minutes unless the previous owner was nice enough to scratch little pictures of all his otyugh kills on the hilt or something. And I wouldn't really want to try my luck at identifying an arrow whose magical property is that it explodes violently when fired.

Perhaps magic items form a special link with their current owners that lets them activate the powers properly (you'll note there are no more command words), so anyone who fiddles with the item for a few minutes might simply just know what it does.

Granted, the +5 fountain pen of venomous assassination in the vizier's chamber shouldn't reveal itself to anyone trying to borrow a writing implement, but that might fall under the "Some magic items might be a bit harder to identify" clause, having been expressly designed to avoid this flaw.

KIDS
2008-05-16, 04:24 AM
Magic Items - superb! No more magic item bonanza, or even if there is there are only 3 that actually matter significantly. I'm all in favor of it.

Quests - interesting, though as they said, nothing really new. I will look into it carefully though, it could be very helpful.

Shadar-kai - That is.... very good actually. Really good. I'm impressed, they have that fine line of soullessness and presence in them, it's very well done.

Jerthanis
2008-05-16, 05:07 AM
Magic items are nifty, but I'm not sure what it meant when it mentioned that there's a certain number of times you can use items in a day... which made it sound like, if I had seven swords, each with a daily power, I couldn't cycle between them. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Also, does this mean no Wands, Staves, or Rods? What about Scrolls? Can you no longer play a rogue with a wand as a primary (though almost entirely out of combat) healer?

Quests is about the most generic description of something ever. As much as they talk about how much better it is now that they treat it as more than an encouraged houserule/variant, there's precious little in the article that separates it in any way from being made of solid handwavium. I'm really not expecting too much here.

Shadar-kai look okay, I have to admit to not caring overmuch about Shadar-kai, and the art isn't exceptional or bad... I guess I just don't have much to say about this.

Charity
2008-05-16, 05:36 AM
Staves and Wands are impliments (ie like magic weapons) not spell storage devices.
Not sure about rods.
Out of combat healing will be handled with healing surges which everyone can use.

As for the limited uses a day thing, I'm sure it's there to prevent the golf bag of weapons approach (nightsticks are the ultimate demonstration of why this is undesirable)

Project_Mayhem
2008-05-16, 06:14 AM
All I can say is that I am definately giving out XP to people who bring more snacks now.

SamTheCleric
2008-05-16, 07:07 AM
I'm suitably impressed. Both in the articles and the ability for us to get to page 2 without a flame war. :smallwink:

And those shadar kai look like an ex girlfriend of mine. I wont tell you which one. :smalltongue:

Duke of URL
2008-05-16, 07:29 AM
Magic Items

Overall, encouraging, though I doubt it'll get rid of the packrat mentality. Even if items other than weapon/armor/neck aren't big boosts, you can bet that every character is going to want as many of the small, situational boosts as possible, so they'll be loaded up with items that just won't necessarily be used as much.

In some respects, if they really are situational, this may actually be more complex than items that just give a static bonus that always applies. In any event, encounters are going to be scaled to character relative power by a good DM.

Okay... back to the article... magic item "levels" aren't as bad as originally feared, i.e., that you'd need to be level N to use an Nth-level item -- they're just a relative measure of the item's worth and power, to be used accordingly when deciding what treasure to allocate.

Items such as weapons can grant their wielders a daily power. Cool. I'd guess the limits would be that each item can only grant the daily power once per day (no item sharing) and that a character can only benefit from one daily power per day per body slot (no hot-swapping).

The Holy Avenger returns to its rightful place as a very-high-end special weapon, and isn't a "every paladin has one" item like it has been. Hopefully other classes can have similarly themed iconic weapons as well.

Quests

I actually remember "treasure as XP" :smalltongue:

The idea is sound, and, as they admit, not revolutionary. If they have done a good job providing guidelines for how to create and reward quests, great. We'll see in about 3 weeks.

Morty
2008-05-16, 07:30 AM
Less magic items: that's good. The "Quests" article was painfully generic and once more WoTC apparently refuses to belive that some players might not want to play neither heroes nor "soft-hearted scoundrels". Shadar-kai: yuck. Fanboyism in its purest form, not to this mention ridiculously-looking chain thing.

kc0bbq
2008-05-16, 11:32 AM
Also, does this mean no Wands, Staves, or Rods? What about Scrolls? Can you no longer play a rogue with a wand as a primary (though almost entirely out of combat) healer?
Staves are actually kind of nifty, at least the based on what we've seen so far.

Implements can give you bonuses :

Arcane Implement Mastery: Wand of Accuracy (once
per encounter as a free action, gain a +2 bonus to an attack roll; you must be wielding your wand)
I think the wand determines the bonus, in this case, and then the power on this staff would then replace it:

+1 STAFF OF THE WAR MAGE [LEVEL 3]
This is a perfect implement for a wizard.
Implement (Staff)
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls with implement.
Critical: +1d8 damage
Power (Daily): Free action. Activate when you use a power with a burst or blast effect. Increase the size of the burst or blast by 1.

But that's just an educated guess on my part. Clearer definition of the Arcane Implement Mastery class feature is needed. Having that staff at level three as a fire mage would be nifty. The daily is pretty significant - it doubles the AoE of Fire Shroud (from 24 to 48 squares), about 45% (from 25 to 36 squares) more AoE to Burning Hands.

I like the magic items as we know them so far. Sure, a daily use power is limited, but a lot of them are just really cool.

fendrin
2008-05-16, 11:53 AM
Perhaps magic items form a special link with their current owners that lets them activate the powers properly (you'll note there are no more command words), so anyone who fiddles with the item for a few minutes might simply just know what it does.

Granted, the +5 fountain pen of venomous assassination in the vizier's chamber shouldn't reveal itself to anyone trying to borrow a writing implement, but that might fall under the "Some magic items might be a bit harder to identify" clause, having been expressly designed to avoid this flaw.

Well, there is this:

Most of the time, you can determine the properties and powers of a magic item during a short rest.
I'm not sure what a 'short rest' is per se, but I would hope it would be at least an hour (e.g. not something you would typically do after every combat, but maybe 1-2 times a day,in addition to the extended rest).


I think the wand determines the bonus, in this case, and then the power on this staff would then replace it

If memory serves, there are different types of implements for different 'schools' of magic. The three types of implements were wands, staves, and orbs. I'll see if I can dig up a link...

EDIT:
Wizard preview (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070917a&authentic=true)
Blog entry by David Noonan (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13826013&postcount=23)

kamikasei
2008-05-16, 12:11 PM
I'm not sure what a 'short rest' is per se, but I would hope it would be at least an hour (e.g. not something you would typically do after every combat, but maybe 1-2 times a day,in addition to the extended rest).

Short rests are (IIRC) the five-minute breaks used to recover per-encounter powers.

kc0bbq
2008-05-16, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure what a 'short rest' is per se, but I would hope it would be at least an hour (e.g. not something you would typically do after every combat, but maybe 1-2 times a day,in addition to the extended rest).
The definition on the compilation I've been using:

Short Rest: A short rest lasts 5 minutes and allows you to regain your encounter powers.

Time sinks are not fun, really, and if you just got done fighting something and took their flamey sword you know pretty much what it does. It's not like it works for every item, there's still the "figure it out at the speed of plot" out built in. I see that rule being used more by DMs wanting a more immersive campaign. "Well, you never have seen it used and don't know really what it is, it'll take some time to figure out." Meanwhile, with yet another shortsword +1 you can probably know pretty quick. And for people who just want a meatgrinder to show off how awesome their team is, they know right away, and keep the Cuisinart running. Sometimes it's just fun to kill stuff. Sometimes I miss the first, fumbling attempts at playing. Roll on the encounter chart. Wolf. You can take a wolf, but it says 2-7 wolves and you're level 1! Make a new character, this one's being eaten.

Telok
2008-05-16, 12:33 PM
The quest article was not useful.

The magic item article stated that PCs will still have extreme difficulty in functioning without level appropriate magic weapons, armor, and save items. They may be less gimped than a current level 20 fighter with completely mundane gear, but still heavily disadvantaged. It sounds like mostly just reduced the number of required magic items.


In addition, each character can only activate a few different magic item powers in a given day, so the guy who brings a loaded pack full of flashy items doesn’t get as much bang for his buck.

This section concerns me. It sounds like there will be a hard limit on the number of useful magic items a character can use. While it is unlikely that simple and low end items such as potions and scrolls will fall under this limit, items like figurines, tokens, bags, and instruments certainly will.

Using magic rituals and spells to divine the purpose and operation of magical objects or devices seems reasonable. Simply knowing those same details because you held the item for five minutes sounds a bit odd. How do you know that a pair of magical boots will teleport you three times a day just because you wore them for a couple minutes? Spells like Identify and Legend Lore are a reasonable assumption in the framework of a high-magic fantasy game. This was not something that was rule-abused or causing problems. Why the change?

SamTheCleric
2008-05-16, 12:44 PM
This was not something that was rule-abused or causing problems. Why the change?

For me, at least, its because I don't have the hour to sit down in a dungeon to identify this awesome weapon I just picked up... I want to pick up the loot and use it immediately in the Big Scary Castle of Doom And Destruction (tm)

fendrin
2008-05-16, 12:49 PM
Short rests are (IIRC) the five-minute breaks used to recover per-encounter powers.

Hmm... on a mechanics-only level I don't mind this, and an easy in-world explanation is a five-minute ritual to figure out an object; such simple and useful magic that any adventurer worth the title knows how to do it...

Ok, i feel better about it now. :smallamused:


Time sinks are not fun, really, and if you just got done fighting something and took their flamey sword you know pretty much what it does. It's not like it works for every item, there's still the "figure it out at the speed of plot" out built in.

Having played MMORPGS I know all about time sinks not being fun. That's one reason why (in my opinion) D&D Online is the best MMORPG... no time sinks!

However, saying your character performs a task in game and then fast-forwarding to it's completion is not really a time sink.

I guess basically what this comes down to is a way for them to keep you from picking up a magic item mid-combat and using it to full effect (though that would make disarming a very useful technique) whilst still allowing pretty much automatic identification of most items.

Telonius
2008-05-16, 12:49 PM
I very much like the fact that the "Identify" spell has been banished from the kingdom of D&D. Spending 100gp to find out that the wand has two charges of "Cure Minor Wounds" is a thing of the past.

Telonius
2008-05-16, 12:53 PM
On the Shadar-Kai... Anybody else think "Zuko in drag"?

... glad I'm not the only one. :smallbiggrin:

JaxGaret
2008-05-16, 01:03 PM
...

How is any of this any different from 3.5, at all?

fendrin
2008-05-16, 01:22 PM
...

How is any of this any different from 3.5, at all?

Really only in small ways.
Off the top of my head...
Items have levels, which act as a guideline for what PCs should be getting. This helps the DM not put to much WBL into one item, or into multiple too weak items. For that matter, it gives the DM a new (better?) way to adjucate PCs starting above 1st level. Instead of "no items worth more than x% of your starting gold" the DM can specify "no more than y number of levels above your level, combined". I like that: one player can have a single item y levels above their level, another could have an item of (y-z) level and another of (y-(y-z)) level, etc.

A limit to how many items can be used per day: No more "sure item X can be used 3 times per day, but I have 21 item Xs, so I will never run out of uses".

A flaming weapon has the option of doing flaming damage instead of the 3e version doing extra damage. On the other hand, no more 'standard action to activate the flames' that everyone seems to ignore.

I expect that there will be a chart and/or formula for quest experience; that is something that wasn't in 3e.


Other ways too, I'm sure.

Quellian-dyrae
2008-05-16, 01:25 PM
One issue I'm seeing is the new 1/5 sale price, especially when combined with the 10%-40% purchase price increase. I would not think that the idea of "what can I do to sell items at the full price and buy them for half" was uncommon among those min-maxers who made use of the game world as well as the mechanics to augment their characters. But really, even an 8 Int fighter would have to realize that there are people out there who are selling magic items for 20% of the price, and those out there selling them for 140%. I mean, I would imagine that being one of the latter would take some work, finding the right buyers and all that, but if you have a few months of downtime...

I dunno. Half sell/full buy is a staple of RPGs and pretty basic economics anyway, but it strains my suspension of disbelief a bit far to think that there are enough people buying magic items at 1/5 the price that it is understood and accepted, and there are enough people selling them at 110%-140% the price that it is understood and accepted, and there is no way for the PCs to become either. But if there is, the balance of the wealth system essentially crashes.

I like the idea of the disenchant/enchant ritual (though the mechanics remain to be seen), but I think it may have been a wiser move to use it exclusively for the magic item economy, while making the purchase of particular powerful magic items into a quest in and of itself.

RTGoodman
2008-05-16, 02:03 PM
For the Magic Items article, there's not much I'm worried about. For the "item levels," we've already seen that in MIC and I liked it a lot. One problem I have is that the Holy Avenger doesn't have special powers for Paladins. I know that kinda shoehorns the weapon and character, but that just seems iconic to me. Other classes could get their own special weapons, I guess, but I like the Holy Avenger to be, well, special.

The Quest article was kind of interesting, but not because of the actual information. Mentions of the various "adventure seeds" and stuff like that make it seem like the DMG is gonna be a lot about helping people DM than being a hodge-podge of all sorts of divergent rules on various topics (I'm looking at you, DMG 3.5).

Chronicled
2008-05-16, 02:20 PM
One problem I have is that the Holy Avenger doesn't have special powers for Paladins. I know that kinda shoehorns the weapon and character, but that just seems iconic to me. Other classes could get their own special weapons, I guess, but I like the Holy Avenger to be, well, special.

Um, yes it does.


Holy Avenger
Level 25+
The most prized weapon of any paladin.
Lvl 25 +5 625,000 gp Lvl 30 +6 3,125,000 gp
Weapon: Axe, Hammer, Heavy Blade
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 radiant damage per plus, and you can spend a healing surge
Property: A holy avenger deals an extra 1d10 radiant damage when the power you use to make the attack has the radiant keyword.
Power (Daily): Minor Action. You and each ally within 10 squares of you gain a +5 power bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will defenses until the end of your next turn.
Special: A holy avenger can be used as a holy symbol. It adds its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls and the extra damage granted by its property (if applicable) when used in this manner. You do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus to an attack roll when using a holy avenger as an implement.


Bolded for emphasis. Paladins and clerics do radiant damage, and clerics in 4e aren't primarily meleers. Paladins also have the most healing surges of any classes (if ENWorld is correct), so they can make best use of the ability activated on a critical. Clerics can get some use out of a Holy Avenger, but it benefits a paladin the most.

Jerthanis
2008-05-16, 02:34 PM
Using magic rituals and spells to divine the purpose and operation of magical objects or devices seems reasonable. Simply knowing those same details because you held the item for five minutes sounds a bit odd. How do you know that a pair of magical boots will teleport you three times a day just because you wore them for a couple minutes? Spells like Identify and Legend Lore are a reasonable assumption in the framework of a high-magic fantasy game. This was not something that was rule-abused or causing problems. Why the change?

I feel like it's more a situation where the character takes out the magic boots he found a bit earlier and slips them on experimentally. He takes a couple of steps and doesn't feel any different, so he tries jumping. He doesn't go any higher, so he keeps trying different things until he spins once on his heel while saying, "Abrakazoom!" and he teleports to the other side of the cave.

Weapons might be a simple experiment with making a mark in a piece of wood, and seeing how deep the gouge goes. Potions can be identified by taking a tiny sip and testing the results. If it's a Fly potion, you might feel springier on your feet.

I feel like the problem with Identify was that it was a strict barrier to the use of items, like a toll that always needed to be paid before you could enjoy that awesome new piece of gear, and if you got several items at once it might take a day or two for the wizard to get that many identify spells off. Then you've got to wonder who's paying for the identify spells, whether it's taken equally from each member, or is the responsibility of whoever claims the magic item.

fendrin
2008-05-16, 02:35 PM
One issue I'm seeing is the new 1/5 sale price, especially when combined with the 10%-40% purchase price increase. I would not think that the idea of "what can I do to sell items at the full price and buy them for half" was uncommon among those min-maxers who made use of the game world as well as the mechanics to augment their characters. But really, even an 8 Int fighter would have to realize that there are people out there who are selling magic items for 20% of the price, and those out there selling them for 140%. I mean, I would imagine that being one of the latter would take some work, finding the right buyers and all that, but if you have a few months of downtime...

It works a lot better if you think of adventuring parties being VERY rare. A merchant who buys a magic item doesn't know he will be able to sell it any time soon. It could take years. That means he has to pay for storage costs, transport costs, time to find a buyer that can afford it, security costs... those things add up.

Also, to quote Firefly, "About fifty percent of the human race is middle men and they don't take kindly to being eliminated."


One problem I have is that the Holy Avenger doesn't have special powers for Paladins. I know that kinda shoehorns the weapon and character, but that just seems iconic to me. Other classes could get their own special weapons, I guess, but I like the Holy Avenger to be, well, special.
Well, of the core classes, Paladins seem to be the only ones who will get any real use from it; they seem to be the only ones who can use military weapons and have many weapon-dependent powers that do radiant damage. With a feat (I'm guessing) clerics will be able to use it occasionally as well, but that doesn't bother me in the slightest. It still seems like it would be much better for a paladin.

Saph
2008-05-16, 03:13 PM
The raw materials to create a magic item cost exactly as much as the finished magic item itself? The economy of this world seems more and more bizarre.

Crafting feats were already difficult to use in 3.5 due to the amount of time they required. Unless they've drastically cut the time requirement in 4e, this'll make crafting fairly useless.

- Saph

Trog
2008-05-16, 03:31 PM
Identify is dead - long live the short rest.

I hope it drags appraise along with it. Seriously... the gem is money in DnD. It's like guessing how much this $20 bill is worth. Just tell the player how much it is worth so you don't have to go rooting around in your adventure notes from months ago to find out what the gem actually was worth when they finally decide to pull it out and sell it to someone.

I believe rods have been mentioned somewhere... dang if I can remember where... as a warlock implement. So they might still be around.

Quest XP guidelines are nice to have just for the sake of not giving out too much. Other than that... yeah... been giving those out since 1st ed.

Shadar-Kai? Spiked chain? Who cares. el-lame-o. Also this has my vote for worst 4th ed. art so far that I've seen.

JaxGaret
2008-05-16, 04:50 PM
Really only in small ways.
Off the top of my head...

Let's take a look.


Items have levels, which act as a guideline for what PCs should be getting. This helps the DM not put to much WBL into one item, or into multiple too weak items. For that matter, it gives the DM a new (better?) way to adjucate PCs starting above 1st level. Instead of "no items worth more than x% of your starting gold" the DM can specify "no more than y number of levels above your level, combined". I like that: one player can have a single item y levels above their level, another could have an item of (y-z) level and another of (y-(y-z)) level, etc.

This was already done in 3.5, since all magic items needed a certain CL to create, and the MIC introduced this exact mechanic. So that's not a change.


A limit to how many items can be used per day: No more "sure item X can be used 3 times per day, but I have 21 item Xs, so I will never run out of uses".

I didn't see any such limitation in what I just read - could you provide a quote for evidence?


A flaming weapon has the option of doing flaming damage instead of the 3e version doing extra damage. On the other hand, no more 'standard action to activate the flames' that everyone seems to ignore.

They changed the Flaming enhancement a bit. Whoop de do.


I expect that there will be a chart and/or formula for quest experience; that is something that wasn't in 3e.


I'm not sold on Questing for XP yet. Take two characters who do the exact same thing, but one is on a Quest, and one is not. Why does the one on the Quest get more XP?


Other ways too, I'm sure.

Such as?

appending_doom
2008-05-16, 04:57 PM
The raw materials to create a magic item cost exactly as much as the finished magic item itself? The economy of this world seems more and more bizarre.

Crafting feats were already difficult to use in 3.5 due to the amount of time they required. Unless they've drastically cut the time requirement in 4e, this'll make crafting fairly useless.

- Saph

I did a quick-and-rough calculation on this.

I think most of us understand "cost" of a 3.5 magic item to be the amount of money you'd be expected to pay to a magic-user to make you that item at its minimum caster level.

As a result, 50% of the cost of the magic item is the cost of the raw materials to produce the item.

Using the fast-and-loose 5 gp/XP rule, we can then see that 20% of the item's cost is meant to compensate the creator for having the memories sucked out of his head to make you your +1 sword.

Therefore, 30% of the cost is to pay for the time, fixed and variable living costs, and profit.

The 10-40% markup that magic items get in 4e, therefore, seems to be a reasonable markup for magic item crafters to use when selling their stuff. Because no reasonable wizard would sell a person an item that costs exactly what it cost in raw materials to make.

As a result, it seems that the item cost has become a mythical number with no actual connection to the reality of the price of the item.

AslanCross
2008-05-16, 05:28 PM
Looks more like a razorwhip than a spiked chain to me.

Anyway, it could be worse.

Exhibit A: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightwhip

It's most likely a spiked chain. Many previous articles about the Shadar-Kai have mentioned the spiked chain, and it's a favored weapon of the Shadar-Kai even in 3E. There's also a Shadar-Kai chainfighter in one of those monster compilations that have been distributed a couple of months ago. WOTC seems convinced of the coolness of the weapon.

Honestly, I don't care about realism at this point, and if people really say "DO NOT WANT" when they see the spiked chain, they can just pretend it doesn't exist. :P To be honest, at least it looks more usable than the illustration in the 3.5 PHB, where it looks more like a grappling hook.

fendrin
2008-05-16, 07:20 PM
Let's take a look.
K, lets do.


This was already done in 3.5, since all magic items needed a certain CL to create, and the MIC introduced this exact mechanic. So that's not a change.
1) CL is easily boosted, character level is not. Further, the CL requirement is only for creation, and provides no core basis for treasure allocation.
2) I don't have the MIC, so I didn't know that.


I didn't see any such limitation in what I just read - could you provide a quote for evidence?
From the article above, bold added:
On the other hand, if you prefer to wield a larger array of lower-powered magic items, that’s OK too… with some caveats. Most items are tied to body slots, so there’s a built-in limit to the sheer quantity of items most characters can easily tote around. In addition, each character can only activate a few different magic item powers in a given day, so the guy who brings a loaded pack full of flashy items doesn’t get as much bang for his buck. Again, your class powers should be the main focus of your character, not the precious little trinkets you swiped from cave-dwelling fiends.
--Andy Collins


They changed the Flaming enhancement a bit. Whoop de do. I did say "only in small ways".


I'm not sold on Questing for XP yet. Take two characters who do the exact same thing, but one is on a Quest, and one is not. Why does the one on the Quest get more XP?
Not at all. The idea is 'xp for accomplishing goals', they just make it sound more heroic by calling it a 'quest'. Both fellas get the same XP.


Such as?
If I knew, I would have listed them in the first place. :smallwink:

horseboy
2008-05-17, 01:05 AM
The Shadar-kai live on the Shadowfel (Shadow Plane if you must insist on Great Wheel cosmology). Not a whole lot of fun and happiness in the realm of the dead. Also, they're more the BDSM crowd, IIRC it is because they believe if they don't feel anything then they'll stop existing. Or something. "I cut myself today, to see if I could feel..." Sorry, it's a dirty job, but someone had to do it. :smalltongue:

All I can say is that I am definately giving out XP to people who bring more snacks now.It's amazing what the "Brought Pizza" XP bonus will get you. :smallwink:

I'm not sold on Questing for XP yet. Take two characters who do the exact same thing, but one is on a Quest, and one is not. Why does the one on the Quest get more XP?Because even though I may go hike the Luis & Clark Trail, even using period authentic kit, it's not heroic when I do it. Nobody is going to Rename it the Horseboy Trail or put it in a history book.

The quest XP article was mainly just common sense. In fact it was probably the biggest display of common sense I've seen in one of these 4th edition previews. As far as magic items one, it doesn't say you can only activate three, only "a few". Sounds like a variable, my guess is level based.

JaxGaret
2008-05-17, 12:28 PM
K, lets do.

Let's do this! :smallsmile:


1) CL is easily boosted, character level is not. Further, the CL requirement is only for creation, and provides no core basis for treasure allocation.

Yes, but the base CL for crafting an item gives an approximate "item level" for DMs to go by, even without the MIC, which is where that rules mechanic started.


2) I don't have the MIC, so I didn't know that.

Just pointing out that it was created in 3.5, not 4e.


From the article above, bold added:

Ah, I see. I'm not sure if that means exactly what you said. It could just mean that every magic item is limited to X/day uses, instead of working all day. Even if it does mean what you think it means, that only translates to "You're better off buying a few powerful items instead of lots of weaker ones, because we're going to throw an arbitrary cap on the number of magic items you can use per day". It is an arbitrary cap, mind you, and one that I am sure will be changed via houserule in many campaigns - if they're not playing on DDI, where there are no houserules.


I did say "only in small ways".

That's such a minute way as to be insignificant. IIRC there is even an enhancement in 3.5 that does a very similar thing.


Not at all. The idea is 'xp for accomplishing goals', they just make it sound more heroic by calling it a 'quest'. Both fellas get the same XP.

If so, then that's exactly zero change, they're just calling roleplaying XP "Quest XP". Maybe this is how they're going to adjudicate roleplaying XP... hmm.


If I knew, I would have listed them in the first place. :smallwink:

I don't think there are any.

illathid
2008-05-17, 01:40 PM
Yes, but the base CL for crafting an item gives an approximate "item level" for DMs to go by, even without the MIC, which is where that rules mechanic started.

*Snip*

Just pointing out that it was created in 3.5, not 4e.


Many people from WotC have said that the later splat books for 3.5 were a result of the work they'd done of 4e. I'm fairly sure that many of the things we saw in the MIC, especially item levels, were derived from 4e, not the other way around.

JaxGaret
2008-05-17, 01:56 PM
Many people from WotC have said that the later splat books for 3.5 were a result of the work they'd done of 4e. I'm fairly sure that many of the things we saw in the MIC, especially item levels, were derived from 4e, not the other way around.

That's not how it works. If it was released during 3e, it is a 3e mechanic. Just because WotC decided to keep 4e development a secret doesn't mean that all of the free 4e playtesting we did during 3e wasn't with 3e material.

Sebastian
2008-05-17, 02:48 PM
The Shadar-kai live on the Shadowfel (Shadow Plane if you must insist on Great Wheel cosmology). Not a whole lot of fun and happiness in the realm of the dead. Also, they're more the BDSM crowd, IIRC it is because they believe if they don't feel anything then they'll stop existing. Or something.


So essentially they are emo goth that cut themselves?

Sir_Dr_D
2008-05-17, 06:07 PM
I am curious to how potions work in this edition. I cetainly hope we have seen the end of healing potions.