View Full Version : rogue/fighter

2008-05-16, 12:31 AM
So, I'm actually getting to play D&D 3.5 again for the first time in a while. I've got an idea for a rogue, or possibly a rogue with a fighter dip but I'm having quite a difficult time getting the old brainpiece to churn out good ideas so...

I'm looking to make a Strongheart Halfling Rogue and I'd like some good feat suggestions. Let's assume that available books are everything but ToB and the goal is to be a good contender in a fight (supposed to be a very rough campaign), skills savvy (of course), and ECL 13. I'd prefer a dual wielder just because that's my personal preference for sneak attackers.

If you know any good ideas, rackets, or schemes please give me some ideas. I haven't bought any gear or done much of anything for the character at all, so we're looking at a blank slate. I haven't gotten the exact stat gen rules yet either so I'm sorry I can't provide that.

Ladies and gentlemen, start your brains.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-16, 05:39 AM
Rogue by itself is a solid class with some interesting prestige options.

If you want to be a good contender in a fight, you'll probably want to (1) maximize sneak attack, (2) have good stealth options, and (3) invest in UMD. Note that getting fighter levels interfere with all of these, so I would not recommend that unless you're really feat-starved.

(1) There's a few feats (Craven!) and magical items (rogue's vest) that increase sneak damage. Furthermore, there's a number of classes and prestige classes that boost sneak attack at level 1. Depending on how cheesy you are, you can pick several of those in a row, to get an extra die or two. Sneak attacking stacks well with anything that gives you multiple attacks, in particular two-weapon fighting (since you've got a high dex anyway), the Cloud of Knives spell (grab a wand for that) and multishot.

As a corollary of (1), rogues tend to be screwed against anything immune to sneak attack, in particular undead. Note that there are spells like gravestrike/plantstrike/golemstrike that alleviate that (more wands) and that there's an alternative class feature that lets you sneak attack undead anyway.

(2) The easy part is maxing out your Hide and Sneak skills. There's a few cheap-ish items that help with that. You should consider obtaining Hide In Plain Sight from any number of prestige classes, such as the shadowdancer. Also, get a means of becoming invisible or blinking, as both let you ignore the defender's dex bonus to AC in most cases (i.e. let you sneak attack at will).

You'll note I've mentioned several very useful spells for rogues, up to now. This means that a solid build option is anything involving a few wizard levels and either Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster.

(3) Simply put, UMD rocks. If you're not a caster yourself, it's the next best thing.

2008-05-16, 08:17 AM
Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel)
Savvy Rogue feat (Complete Scoundrel)
Staggering Strike feat (Complete Adventurer)
Penetrating Strike alternate class feature (Dungeonscape)
UMD to the max

Human Paragon 3
2008-05-16, 08:26 AM
Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel)
Savvy Rogue feat (Complete Scoundrel)
Staggering Strike feat (Complete Adventurer)
Penetrating Strike alternate class feature (Dungeonscape)
UMD to the max

I second the staggering strike feat. Forcing enemies to make (and fail) ridiculously high fort saves and denying them their precious full round actions is an amazing strategy. A demon with 8 attacks? Staggered, so sorry!

2008-05-16, 08:39 AM
Everything good appears to have just been said. If you end up having a high wis consider taking a level of monk for stunning fist. This then allows you to take freezing the lifeblood (CW). Once they are paralyzed you can simply coup de grace them. Death blow helps here too.

2008-05-16, 10:23 AM
Fighter 1 / Barbarian 1 / Rogue 6 / Invisible Blade 5 (from Complete Warrior) is a pretty solid build, especially if you start off with Rogue. You'll lose out on a few skill points, but you'd start with a BAB of 11 (3 attacks per round on a full attack) and it will be possible to get that to 16 (4 attacks/round) by 20th level, and you'll still have 10d6 Sneak Attack damage from each attack. Try getting your DM to agree to using the version of Invisible Blade presented here (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm) rather than the one in Complete Warrior, since the feat pre-requisites make a little more sense and it goes for a full 10 levels (although you might want to just go with 9). For your Barbarian level, use the alternative class feature (Complete Champion, p45) to swap your faster movement for Pounce (Lion Totem). You'll need that since you're relying on two weapon combat.

For magical items, look for anything that will boost your damage per attack, such as Merciful, Flaming, Frost, Shocking, Corrosive and Deadly Precision (the last two are from Magic Item Compendium - MIC). Having an Artificer (Eberron Campaign Setting class) in the party could really help you a lot, since they can apply all of those enhancements and many more on a temporary basis (which can save you a lot of starting gold).

A few other items to consider from MIC are a Blindfold of True Darkness (wear it when fighting invisible foes, or just when you want to sneak up on someone at night), Belt of Battle (an extra Full Attack and better Initiative - get a few of these if you can afford to), Deathstrike Bracers (sneak/critical attack to constructs, elementals, oozes, plants and undead for up to 3 rounds per day - again, buy a few of these if you expect to be fighting this type of foe), Impervious Vestment (AC bonus and a Blade Barrier, although you can't combine it with a Rogue's Vest).

Items to get from the DMG include an animated shield, gloves of dexterity and boots of speed. A Dusty Rose Ioun Stone would improve your AC a little, although it might not be enough to be worthwhile, and Wings of Flying are also a good investment, if you can afford them.

The idea of using UMD and buying wands is an excellent one. Look for spells which give you a miss chance (such as Blur and Mirror Image) and extra movement (or other forms of movement like the Fly spell). A Wand of Greater Invisibility is excellent, if you can afford one. In terms of Feats, I'd recommend those which qualify you for Invisible Blade, Weapon Finesse (if you aren't using the modified Invisible Blade I linked to), Staggering Strike and as much of the Two Weapon Fighting line of feats as possible.

2008-05-16, 12:06 PM
It's a very basic suggestion, but ... if you are going to have Rogue anywhere in the build, make sure it is at first level. If you have a 10 int, you'd get 32 skill points as a Rogue, but only 8 as a Fighter. Those 24 extra skill points are gone forever if you take Fighter first.