View Full Version : Quick and Dirty Uber Rogue

2008-05-16, 08:51 AM
If I were to play in a gestalt campaign, with a Fighter//Rogue, and took the alternate class feature on the fighter side that sacrifices the the fighter feats for sneak attack (and might as well mix it with the "Thug" part, too), would that mean I'd have a rogue with full BAB, all the rogue stuff, and twice the sneak attack?
Would that be a good build?

Kurald Galain
2008-05-16, 08:53 AM
No, it would not. You would get "sneak attack with the fastest progression of the two", which turns out to be "1d6 per two levels".

This is for the exact same reason why you can't take both fighter and barbarian to start with a +4 fort save at first level.

2008-05-16, 09:00 AM
But, sneak attack stacks with sneak attacks from other sources, doesn't it?

2008-05-16, 09:02 AM
But, sneak attack stacks with sneak attacks from other sources, doesn't it?

It does when you break the gestalt rules.

2008-05-16, 09:10 AM
Well...well, that's not even HALF as fun as I thought it'd be...

Duke of URL
2008-05-16, 09:30 AM
The "faster progression" rule is the only thing keeping gestalt from being completely broken crazy. If you allowed sneak attack from different sources to accumulate like that (as opposed to taken serially), then you get the same type of issues where you could take +1 spellcasting level PrCs to increase caster level above character level, or two initiator classes to have an initiator level equal to 1.5 x character level.

2008-05-16, 09:35 AM
You'd be better off going Rogue//Warblade (from ToB). There are a bunch of strikes (including Sapphire Nightmare Blade, a 1st-level one) that make the enemy count as flat-footed for the attack. Sneak Attack without flanking in at least every other turn? Yes please!

2008-05-16, 01:49 PM
On the other hand, you could go rogue//ninja, since Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike are different class features. Alternately (or additionally), you can get a heck of a lot of Sneak Attack damage from dipping a bunch of different classes, as long as you do it all on the same side. For instance, a rogue 1/spellthief 1/sneak attack fighter 1/psychic rogue 1 has 4d6 sneak attack at level 4. I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to hit 20d6 by level 20, even without Gestalt (and then stick Ninja on the other side of that, in Gestalt).

2008-05-16, 01:51 PM
Personally I wouldn't recommend Ninja though. I'd think Scout would make for better synergy.

Tempest Fennac
2008-05-16, 01:54 PM
Why would't you recommend using Ninjas, Vael?

2008-05-16, 01:55 PM
I can honestly recommend Swordsage // Rogue - at least I think it would work well. Focusing on Shadow Hand discipline, using the Island of blades stance, that makes the enemy flanked as long as it's adjacent to you and one ally. Flanking without flanking. The Shadow Hand maneuvers work very well as well.

Duke of URL
2008-05-16, 02:00 PM
Scout would be great, especially if you add Dervish to it. Dervish Dance nets you full attacks while moving, which triggers Skirmish. Do it against a flat-footed opponent and add Sneak Attack.

The only drawback to Scout over Rogue is the Rogue gets Crippling Strike at 10th level.

But, this build could be fun:

Fighter 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Dervish 10 / Tempest 5 // Swordsage 1 / Scout 19

Feats will be a pain, so juggle around what you got to. You'll want: Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus (any piercing), Weapon Finesse, TWF tree, Shadow Blade.

The good news is you get two of those for free: WF (dagger) from Swordsage 1 (Shadow Hand) and WFin from Swashbuckler 1.

This nets you:

* Skirmish damage while moving (think Dervish Dance)
* DEX to AC, AB, damage
* STR to damage
* INT to damage
* WIS to AC (light armor)

All you have to do is dual-wield daggers, to satisfy the Shadow Blade requirements (and pick your one stance from the Shadow Hand school).