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View Full Version : Heroes of the Darkness: ie Good Guys who Hate Pelor



Leliel
2008-05-16, 01:28 PM
Well, an idea of mine that's been floating around my head for a while is one where the PC's charaters are imbued with a fraction of elemental darkness, which mutates them into various specimens of nocturnal monsters.

This does not however, effect their mind in any way, which is conveinient becase there is a elemental-light imbued BBEG who wants to use his powers to reshape the world as he sees fit (ie, not in line with the various specifications of high living conditions). In any case, they'll have to do that while avoiding/obliterating various wannabe heroes, who haven't gotten the memo that the PCs are the good guys.

So, do you think this is a good idea?

AstralFire
2008-05-16, 01:30 PM
Well, an idea of mine that's been floating around my head for a while is one where the PC's charaters are imbued with a fraction of elemental darkness, which mutates them into various specimens of nocturnal monsters.

This does not however, effect their mind in any way, which is conveinient becase there is a elemental-light imbued BBEG who wants to use his powers to reshape the world as he sees fit (ie, not in line with the various specifications of high living conditions). In any case, they'll have to do that while avoiding/obliterating various wannabe heroes, who haven't gotten the memo that the PCs are the good guys.

So, do you think this is a good idea?

it's practically a tired trope of Japanese Fantasy, tbh, the evil Light God, and it's not unknown in Western Fantasy by any stretch. That said, most tired tropes had something strong going for them that made others want to use them, so it can be done well.

kamikasei
2008-05-16, 01:45 PM
Didn't you try this one already (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63902)?

Do you have a list of these or something? :smalltongue:

Leliel
2008-05-16, 01:57 PM
Didn't you try this one already (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63902)?

Do you have a list of these or something? :smalltongue:

I did?

Yeah, of course I did. My ideas evolve, so when I think enough time has past that people forget about it, then post the evolved version.

Chronos
2008-05-16, 02:20 PM
The Tome of Magic contains a lot of material on darkness-themed abilities you could use, in the section on Shadowcasters.

Keld Denar
2008-05-16, 03:40 PM
Well, since Pelor is the Neutral Evil God of Sunburns, Hatred, Thirst, and Skin Cancer, it would behoove a group of heros to attempt to disrupt the machinations of his evil followers and educate the general public about his true nature.

Tokiko Mima
2008-05-16, 04:06 PM
---> Link: Light Is Not Good (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightIsNotGood) <---

There you go, prime examples of this kind of thing.

Tingel
2008-05-16, 04:36 PM
The reason why light is often associated with Good and darkness with Evil is because light is something, while darkness is just the absence of light. Light is. Darkness is not. Absolute darkness (the total absence of light) is mere nothingness. There are no "darkness waves" or "darkness particles"; there is no such thing as an "elemental darkness".

People tend to like existence. Nothingness is not desirable. Therefore light is associated with creation and energy, while darkness is associated with annihilation and deficiency. Light allows us to see the world around us, it creates color. It also creates life, providing energy for plant life. Darkness doesn't do anything - of course it doesn't, since it is nothing. Light even brings forth darkness, brings forth shadows. Because without light, darkness has no meaning. Light on the other hand possesses a physical reality completely independent from its "counterpart".

Based on these basic truths, I personally find it hard to understand how a "good" and reasonable person (like your mutated heroes) can oppose light itself.

Hyozo
2008-05-16, 09:46 PM
The reason why light is often associated with Good and darkness with Evil is because light is something, while darkness is just the absence of light. Light is. Darkness is not. Absolute darkness (the total absence of light) is mere nothingness. There are no "darkness waves" or "darkness particles"; there is no such thing as an "elemental darkness".

People tend to like existence. Nothingness is not desirable. Therefore light is associated with creation and energy, while darkness is associated with annihilation and deficiency. Light allows us to see the world around us, it creates color. It also creates life, providing energy for plant life. Darkness doesn't do anything - of course it doesn't, since it is nothing. Light even brings forth darkness, brings forth shadows. Because without light, darkness has no meaning. Light on the other hand possesses a physical reality completely independent from its "counterpart".

Based on these basic truths, I personally find it hard to understand how a "good" and reasonable person (like your mutated heroes) can oppose light itself.

Or, since Light and darkness representing good and evil coms from long before we ever even considdered those things, it could be that light reveals while darkness conceals. It is natural to fear the unknown, and long before the written word, humanity knew that it was easier to see in the light. Under this assumption it is fully appropriate to support darkness. Some things are not meant to be known.

UglyPanda
2008-05-16, 11:03 PM
...
Stuff
...

The "Light is Evil" thing is a simple and old subversion of the "Light is Good" thing. It keeps showing up because "Light is Good" is itself is one of the oldest ones in the book i.e. the first page of The Old Testament. People occasionally believe they're the first ones to come up with an idea, so new people keep repeating it until it becomes a trope.

Another possibility is that it is caused by the "Devil is not Evil" trope. This extends to "God is Evil" which mixes with "God is Light" to create "Light is Evil".

Xefas
2008-05-16, 11:21 PM
In my personal experience, all of these "twists" and "subversions" and things have, themselves, become rather old and tired. Eventually "Oh, but, really, the Light was actually EVIL! Boogaboogabooga!" becomes even cheesier and generic than "The Light is good. So there."

Such things are so commonplace nowadays that, on several occasions, I've tricked my players into doing outlandishly stupid things by making things exactly what they seem.

"We killed the Planetar! Haha! The doomsday MacGuffin is finally-"
"No, it's still coming."
"What?! We just spent the past 15 minutes unraveling your whole freakish web of lies! Where's our XP?"
"There was no web of lies! The Planetar is just a Planetar! He was actually helping you like he said. The old guy who laughs maniacally and calls you 'ignorant do-gooders' is actually the bad guy. The big fiery deathball is actually a big fiery deathball. And you actually could have just had the Planetar go over and break the MacGuffin exactly like he said, exactly like the prophecy said, exactly like all your divination spells said, exactly like I told you."

In the immortal words of the party Cleric:
"...I didn't see *that* coming."

EvilElitest
2008-05-16, 11:26 PM
---> Link: Light Is Not Good (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightIsNotGood) <---

There you go, prime examples of this kind of thing.

yeah, i mean he used the death note and everything. Oh wait
from
EE

Waffles
2008-05-17, 08:19 AM
Good lord, you people are ripping his idea apart.

Maybe his players aren't familiar with this particular trope and will enjoy the campaign anyway? Maybe he can pull it off so that it seems fresh and interesting? His idea doesn't seem that tired to me, anyway, and I imagine I'm familiar with most of the same stuff you are.

Xuincherguixe
2008-05-17, 08:39 AM
Take it a step further and turn them into something similar to Shoggoths.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Shoggoth_by_pahko.jpg/678px-Shoggoth_by_pahko.jpg

edit: Also, twisting Tingel's ideas...

Darkness can be used to represent things hard to understand, and Light coming to simple conclusions. In the fashion "There are more things than that which you can see."