Do you think elan is even capable of evil alignment?

[krossbow]

Just thumbing through the joke threads as of late, and a thought struck me while reading the parodies.


personally, i'm convinced that Elan isn't even CAPABLE of being of evil alignment. Never in the comic strip, even in his less good moments, did he exhibit any ability to do evil. Even when being suggested to by Nale all he actually did was tell haley he never wanted to see her again (whether or not he would have been affected by the "angry enough even to kill" comment seems unlikely to me), and his confliction over letting nale fall to his death or not was more neutral than evil (an evil person wouldn't have even thought about it, less yet have a dilemma).


His actions in the comic strip really don't show any ways that elan could be corrupted, and his personality really seems unable to process evil. In order for him to ever switch to an evil alignment, he would have to so completely change his personality and character that it just doesn't seem possible apart from complete insanity. His joking and intent to aid all around him just doesn't seem compatible with an evil alignment.

[Gurped]

corrupted seems to be the wrong word.
he's being told by his personal deity to kill his friends, and it seems that it would be quite hard to reject that.

As for the joking, he could just be descending (further) into madness.


or idiocy

[Raging_Pacifist]

Anyone is capable of evil, but I don't think that Elan will commit evil anytime soon.

[Moff Chumley]

Probably right, and under very, very unique circumstances, Elan might do something perceived as evil. But probobly not.

[Spiryt]

His intelligent creature, why shouldn't he be able to be evil ?:smallconfused:

Harrasing completely motionless friend (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html) in that way isn't classicaly evil action, but certainly show that Elan is just capable of Malice as other creatures.

Basically inability to be evil means that you can't be good too.

[Raging_Pacifist]

His intelligent creature, why shouldn't he be able to be evil ?:smallconfused:

Harrasing completely motionless friend (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html) in that way isn't classicaly evil action, but certainly show that Elan is just capable of Malice as other creatures.

Basically inability to be evil means that you can't be good too.

What your saying doesn't makes sense. If your not evil you can't be good? So one can only be neutral? :confused:

[Electric_Monkey]

I think what Spiryt is saying is not that someone who is not evil cannot be good, but someone who lacks the capacity to be evil could only do so because they are somehow prevented from making moral choices, and therefore could not be good either - like a robot would not be good or evil because it doesn't have its own will and only enacts the will of whomever programmed it.

[Lupy]

I think that Elan is at heart the "goodest" person in the strip. He is innocent, he loves his friends, he is forgiving, he can show childless malice, and as is stated above he wasn't even evil when Nale was controlling him. So it seems he wouldn't ever try to be evil, and would stop if he found out, so it seems he will always be good. Is he incapable of evil? Allowing his friends to be sacraficed because his god says so is kind of lawful, I think it's also evil, but mostly lawful. So yes, he could be evil, but he never will be. Or will he? Buh buh buh!

[Atmbn]

What if he dons a helmet of alighnment shift.

[factotum]

I think it is possible to be relatively innocent and yet still be evil--just look at Thog, who is Elan's equivalent in terms of intelligence if nothing else.

[Edea]

OotS mirrors D&D. In D&D, zombies and skeletons are evil. They are also -mindless-. Not stupid, not foolish, not even braindead. They don't have a mentality -at all-. But in D&D (and therefore OotS), they're still evil as all Hell. Intellectual capacity is in no way a requirement for alignment in this world, IMO.

[Axl_Rose]

I could not ever imagine Elan being capable of evil alignment.

[Eric]

He's certainly capable of evil *acts*. The alignment? No. Not unless there's a life0changing experience.

Leaving his friends to be killed by Orcs because "Banjo says so" is an evil act. good gods no longer require sacrifice and worshipping an evil god is an evil act. In this case, it's not "bad evil" because this is Elan being thicker than a yard of lard rather than pre-meditated.

This, of course, is the moral equivalence of the modern era (basically the last couple of hundred years). Before that, murder was OK if it was for The Right Reasons (tm). However, we are people playing a modern game, so I would suggest the gentler moral imperative of modern times is the right one to measure acts against.

However, I'm wondering where this is going to go, because if Elan doesn't help, he's going to be in deep doo-doo with the rest of the party over his actions. And that's because these actions are evil. That they don't kill Elan is because he isn't evil, but he may need reminding of what's right...

[Eric]

He's certainly capable of evil *acts*. The alignment? No. Not unless there's a life0changing experience.

Leaving his friends to be killed by Orcs because "Banjo says so" is an evil act. good gods no longer require sacrifice and worshipping an evil god is an evil act. In this case, it's not "bad evil" because this is Elan being thicker than a yard of lard rather than pre-meditated.

This, of course, is the moral equivalence of the modern era (basically the last couple of hundred years). Before that, murder was OK if it was for The Right Reasons (tm). However, we are people playing a modern game, so I would suggest the gentler moral imperative of modern times is the right one to measure acts against.

However, I'm wondering where this is going to go, because if Elan doesn't help, he's going to be in deep doo-doo with the rest of the party over his actions. And that's because these actions are evil. That they don't kill Elan is because he isn't evil, but he may need reminding of what's right...

[snafu]

Before that, murder was OK if it was for The Right Reasons (tm). However, we are people playing a modern game, so I would suggest the gentler moral imperative of modern times is the right one to measure acts against.

D&D is full of murder and mayhem justified in terms of The Right Reasons. Every time you turn around you kill something basically because the book says it's Always Chaotic Evil. Murder is OK if it's because the victim showed up on some holy man's Detect Evil spell... that's not so much a modern ethic as a Witchfinder-General ethic.

[Eric]

D&D is full of murder and mayhem justified in terms of The Right Reasons. Every time you turn around you kill something basically because the book says it's Always Chaotic Evil. Murder is OK if it's because the victim showed up on some holy man's Detect Evil spell... that's not so much a modern ethic as a Witchfinder-General ethic.

We in the players of the game have a very limited level of information. Masses of real information is left out because you've only got one person playing the world: the DM.

So, in order to make the game *interesting* to *play*, we have the Evil Overlord (complete with cackle). Everything (against the players) IS black and white because otherwise you might as well play dollhouse.

But what makes "evil" is the actions they take and they are rated against modern morality, not ancient. So if you killed the baker in the Evil Overlord Mansion (with realistic moving lava flow) even if they begged, this would be considered by the DM and fellow players a pointer to the person being A Bad One.

[NeonRonin]

I am somehow reminded of something that popped up in a gaming magazine a while back- the 'Stupid' Alignments. Specifically, Stupid Good, Stupid Evil, Chaotic Stupid, Lawful Stupid, and True Stupid. I haven't the time to write out the nitpicking definitions of each, I think they're pretty obvious.

If we apply these alignment possibilities to OotS, I think at least a few of the characters are viable candidates, as follows:

:elan: Stupid Good

:xykon: Stupid Evil

:miko: Lawful Stupid

:thog: Chaotic Stupid

Of course, these are just whimsical off-the-cuff guesses, but in regards to the original posting, Elan really does seem to be the 'most good' of the Order; he spared Nale's life at least twice after Nale tried to murder him. Still, while canon says he's Chaotic Good, I shall always envision him as Stupid Good.

[Edea]

Haha, THERE'S V's alignment.


:vaarsuvius: Not Stupid.

[Hallavast]

I can certainly picture Elan going on an "evil" spree out of novelty and fun. He is capable of such "evil" acts as:

-Kidnapping a person's pet rock and holding it ransom

-Weakening the back legs of people's chairs

-Stealing all the left shoes in an entire village

-Using his illusions in an attempt to scare small children

-Playing loud music in the library

-Directing a broadway adaptation of one of Uwe Boll's films

In this way Elan is capable of "evil".

[Red XIV]

Elan isn't capable of Evil alignment because that would require Nale to have Good alignment, which is impossible. The evil twin can't be Good, that would make the universe implode or something.

[krossbow]

Elan isn't capable of Evil alignment because that would require Nale to have Good alignment, which is impossible. The evil twin can't be Good, that would make the universe implode or something.


but by causing that wouldn't he then have perpetrated the most despicably evil act ever, thus fulfilling his role as evil twin?

[Halvormerlinaky]

What if he dons a helmet of alighnment shift.

I'm pretty sure the universe would have a BSOD.

[chiasaur11]

Elan isn't capable of Evil alignment because that would require Nale to have Good alignment, which is impossible. The evil twin can't be Good, that would make the universe implode or something.

How can we forget Flexo so soon?

[Liwen]

:xykon: Stupid Evil


Xykon isn't stupid. He's just bored :smallbiggrin:

[TreesOfDeath]

-Directing a broadway adaptation of one of Uwe Boll's films

In this way Elan is capable of "evil".



You fiend! Not even Nale would be capable of such evil!

[geekyhedgehog]

-Kidnapping a person's pet rock and holding it ransom

-Weakening the back legs of people's chairs

-Stealing all the left shoes in an entire village

-Using his illusions in an attempt to scare small children

-Playing loud music in the library

-Directing a broadway adaptation of one of Uwe Boll's films

These actions would certainly be justified in Elan's mind as:

-'Rescuing' said rock

-Weaking chairs in retribution for not paying tribute to Banjo

-Stealing shoes because it's "No Left Shoe Day"

-Preaching the miracles of Banjo to small children in order to convert them

-Acting upon his inner muse

-Being oblivious to the pain he's inflicting on others