G6: Re-Imagining E6 and D&D

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/Djinn_in_Tonic/G6-1.png

*Re-Imagining E6 and D&D*


*****

Anyone not living under a rock these past 30 odd years knows what D&D is. Whether or not you like the game is irrelevant: D&D is a game that has revolutionized the RPG scene, and has the largest fan base of any of the RPGs on the market.

However, D&D is far from perfect. At higher levels, the discrepancy between magic-users and mundane classes becomes astronomical, and certain options are almost always better than others. It is a game that is easy to optimize, and this can shatter a campaign faster than almost anything else.

Which is where E6 (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206323) steps in. E6 is a variant of traditional D&D where the highest level a character can reach is level six. The reason for this is that, at higher levels, D&D steps away from being a gritty fantasy RPG and travels into the realms of wuxia and superhero style fantasy. E6 aims at hitting the sweet-spot of D&D for a rousing yet gritty game where, even at the highest levels, a horde of angry peasants isn't something to shrug off.

Yet, like its predecessor, E6 has its own problems. There are so few abilities gained over the first six levels that leveling can feel unsatisfying or even downright dull. Characters lack options, and specializations such as Prestige Classes are almost unheard of.

Thus, G6. Named G6 because of its creator, Gideon_Gideonson (also known as Djinn_in_Tonic), and its inspiration, E6, it aims at revamping the base classes into interesting, flavorful, and ability filled classes, while not losing the gritty fantasy feel. Characters gain abilities at every level, giving them new options all the time. The ability to take a Prestige Class within those six levels becomes available, and the consistent class formatting allows for easy customization and class creation if the idea you have doesn't fit an existing framework.

With that, I present G6, and open it up to the community. This is an unfinished project, and any and all help is welcome. While your ideas might not necessarily make it in (and those whose ideas are incorporated will receive due credit), every bit of input and inspiration will be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes, and I hope you enjoy the results!

-Gideon Gideonson, a.k.a. The Djinn


*****



Contents
Post 2 - Character Creation and Racial Statistics
Post 3 - Base Classes: Theory and Examples
Post 4 - Prestige Classes: Theory and Examples
Post 5 - Feats: Theory and Examples




Change Log
Sunday, May 18, 2008: Thread created
Monday, May 19, 2008: Added Feats section

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Character Creation
-Generating Ability Scores-
-The Zero Level-
-Leveling Up-


Generating Ability Scores

The first step in creating a character is to generate your ability scores. Abilities in G6 are generated using a standard 28 point buy system, with one exception—no ability score can begin higher than a 16 (before applying racial modifiers). The reason for this is that G6 characters aren’t the superhumans seen in other games, and almost no beginning adventurer has already reached the pinnacle of human capability.

All ability scores begin at 8, and may be increased by spending a number of points equal to the point cost of the desired score. The ability scores and their corresponding point cost are shown on Table 1-1: Ability Score Costs.

Table 1-1: Ability Score Costs

{table=head]Score|Cost

8|
0

9|
1

10|
2

11|
3

12|
4

13|
5

14|
6

15|
8

16|
10
[/table]

At the GMs discretion, the following variants may be used in place of the standard point buy:

Variable Point Buy: Like standard point buy, only your point buy is determined by 21+2d6.

Random Generation: Roll 4d6 for each ability score, eliminate the lowest result, and arrange the scores as you desire. Scores of 17+ should be re-rolled.


The Zero Level

Everyone has heard about the 6th level expert blacksmith or the 5th level town mayor. Occasionally they pop up in a campaign, and this begs an important question: since these people are tougher and more competent in combat than your typical 1st or 2nd level Player Character, why don’t they solve their problems themselves?

Additionally, where do adventurers begin? People aren’t born wizards, and don’t suddenly spring into being as fully trained marshals. Why don’t Player Characters have this transition stage?

Well, now they can. Welcome to the Zero Level, the second step in creating a G6 character. A character with no class levels is treated as being 0th level. A 0th level character has everything needed to function, but no class abilities. A character with character classes receives the benefits of being 0th level along with the benefits of his or her class.

The 0th Level Character
Hit Points: A 0th level character receives a number of Hit Points equal to her Constitution score.

Skill Points: (4 + Int Modifier) x3
*No single skill may have more than 3 ranks.
*All skills are treated as class skills for all classes.

Table 1-2: The 0th Level Character
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0| Bonus Feats[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: 0th level characters are proficient with all simple weapons.

Bonus Feat: The 0th level character gains two bonus feats, provided she meets the prerequisites for each.


Leveling Up

Leveling up in G6 has one major difference from traditional D&D—there is no such thing as XP. G6 instead runs on the SRLS, or the Story Related Leveling System. Under this system, leveling isn’t something systematic and predictable—it comes when the GM determines it should.

This is for two major reasons: firstly, it makes the GM’s life easier, as he can level up the characters on his own time without having to consult tables and tables to correctly calculate some unnecessary number.

Secondly, and most importantly, it reduces the dependency on killing, and encourages characters to act as characters rather than players. Why kill the sleeping ogre when you could simply slip by him? Before this was a way to gain needed XP, but now the characters don’t always have to seek out the next battle—they can simply engage in creating a story, and reap the rewards when it is time to do so.

With this system, levels should be saved for important story moments, or handed out when players seem disillusioned with their current state and hunger for something new. There are only five opportunities to level up in G6. Make those times memorable and special.

SRLS aside, leveling up in G6 is very similar to leveling up in traditional D&D. The only exceptions to that rule are listed below.

Hit Points: Characters receive additional hp at each level equal to the amount granted to them by their chosen class, plus an additional amount equal to their Constitution modifier. A character cannot gain less than 1hp in this manner.

Feats: Characters gain a feat at second level, fourth level, and sixth level, for a total of 5 feats (some classes may have more).

Increasing Ability Scores: Characters gain a +1 inherent bonus to a single ability score at 3rd level and at 5th level. No ability score may be brought above 18 in this manner. Most characters will receive additional bonuses to ability scores through their 6th level Paragon abilities. These additional bonuses may be used to bring scores above 18.


*****




Races
-Reasons Behind the Change-
-Languages-
-Racial Profiles-


Reasons Behind the Changes

In G6 the races have seen some significant changes, the most obvious being the removal of ability score bonus and penalties. The reason for this is to prevent the traditional stereotypes and min/maxing from influencing race selection. There is no real reason why an Elf should make a worse Barbarian than a Dwarf, and there should be no penalty for a player who chooses that option. Race in G6 is a character choice, and one that should influence play, but it won’t penalize a character for playing against type. Races instead offer minor statistical bonuses as a perk, but do not add enough to make one race an obviously better choice.


Languages

All characters know how to speak Common. A dwarf, elf, gnome, half-elf, half-orc, or halfling also speaks a racial language, as appropriate. A character who has an Intelligence bonus at 1st level speaks other languages as well, one extra language per point of Intelligence bonus as a starting character.


Racial Profiles

HUMANS
• Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Human base land speed is 30 feet.
• 3 extra skill points at 0th level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
• +2 racial bonus to any two skills, chosen at character creation.
• Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).

DWARVES
• Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).
• Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all.
• Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
• +1 racial bonus on Fortitude saves.
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon.

ELVES
• Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Superior Low-Light Vision: An elf can see four times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• +1 racial bonus on Reflex saves.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.

GNOMES
• Small: As a Small creature, a gnome gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
• Gnome base land speed is 20 feet.
• Low-Light Vision: A gnome can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• +1 Racial bonus on Fortitude saves and Reflex saves.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Gnome. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc.

HALF-ELVES
• Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.
• Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects.
• Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks.
• Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).

HALF-ORCS
• Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision: Half-orcs (and orcs) can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-orcs can function just fine with no light at all.
• +1 racial bonus on Strength checks.
• +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks.
• Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin.

HALFLINGS
• Small: As a Small creature, a halfling gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use, and her lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
• Halfling base land speed is 20 feet.
• +2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, and Move Silently checks.
• +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
• +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear: This bonus stacks with the halfling’s +1 bonus on saving throws in general.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Halfling. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, and Orc.


*****

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Base Classes

-Designing a Base Class-
-Sample Base Classes-



Designing A Base Class

Designing a Base Class in G6 is a much simpler process than it is in either D&D or E6. All classes follow the same basic pattern, so front-loading a class becomes impossible, and no class has any dead levels. Whether you’re a Fighter, a Rogue, or a Scout, you’ll get something new and interesting at every level. That’s the goal of G6, and the class design has been streamlined to make it possible.

Class abilities should be flavorful and useful, but should never overshadow the abilities of other classes. Of course, some abilities will be more useful than others, but no class should be outdone completely by anything else. If you create something you can’t see someone not taking, it’s time to go back to the drawing board. With that in mind, here is the format used to create a Base Class.


The [Class Name]
Hit Points: (4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

Skill Points at each level: (4, 6, 8) + Int Modifier

Table 3-1: The [Class Name]
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Class Ability, Class Ability

2nd|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Secondary Class Ability, Encounter Ability 1/encounter

3rd|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Class Ability, Class Ability

4th|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X|Improved Secondary Ability, Encounter Ability 2/encounter

5th|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Class Ability, Class Ability

6th|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Paragon (Capstone Ability), Encounter Ability 3/encounter[/table]


Base Attack Bonus: Increases by one of the following patterns: (+0, +1, +1, +2, +2, +3), (+0, +1,+ 2, +3, +3, +4), or (+1, +2, +3, +4, +5, +6)

Saving Throws: Increase each save by one of the following patterns: (+0, +0, +1, +1, +1, +2), (+0, +1, +1, +2, +2, +3) or (+2, +3, +3, +4, +4, +5)

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All classes grant at least simple weapon proficiency. Other weapon and armor proficiencies depend upon the class in question.

Class Ability: Class abilities are unlimited abilities that range from the mundane to the extraordinary. They should be simple, flavorful, and not overpowering.

Encounter Ability: Encounter abilities are unique moves that give a character options in battle. These can be anything from more powerful versions of a normal attack to horrible curses to cripple your foes.

Secondary Class Ability: Secondary Class Abilities are just like Class Abilities, only them improve in an ability-related fashion upon achieving 4th level.

Paragon (Capstone Ability): At sixth level a character gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, he gains a single, powerful ability that cannot be duplicated by any other class.


Sample Base Classes

Barbarian
Fighter
Marshal
Monk
Rogue
Scout


The Barbarian
Hit Points: 8

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 1-1 The Barbarian
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0| Rage 1/encounter, Fast Movement

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+0|Tough Skin, Mighty Blow 1/encounter

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1| Uncanny Dodge, Damage Reduction 1/-

4th|
+4|
+4|
+2|
+1|Improved Tough Skin, Mighty Blow 2/encounter

5th|
+5|
+4|
+2|
+1| Greater Rage 2/encounter, Damage Reduction 3/-

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+3|
+2| Paragon (Undying Frenzy), Mighty Blow 3/encounter[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Barbarians are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with all light and medium armor.

Rage: Beginning at 1st level, the barbarian may enter a ferocious rage once per encounter. Entering rage is a swift action, and, once activated, the barbarian gains a +2 bonus to Strength, Constitution, and Will saves for the duration of the rage. Rage lasts a number of rounds equal to 3 + the barbarian’s improved Constitution score.

At 5th level, a barbarian’s rage increases in ferocity, granting her a +4 bonus to Strength and Constitution, and a +3 bonus to Will saves. She may also rage one additional time per encounter.

Fast Movement: Beginning at 1st level, the barbarian receives a +10ft bonus to her base land speed.

Tough Skin: Beginning at 2nd level, the barbarian’s body becomes able to resist impact with ease. She gains a +1 bonus to her natural armor.

At 4th level, the barbarian’s natural armor increases to +3.

Mighty Blow: Beginning at 2nd level, the barbarian learns to strike her opponents with devastating blows. Once per encounter, as a standard action, she may make a single melee attack against a foe within reach. An opponent struck in this manner takes normal weapon damage plus an additional 5 damage and must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the barbarian’s character level + the barbarian’s Strength modifier) or be knocked prone.

At 4th level, the barbarian may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level she may use it three times per encounter.

Uncanny Dodge: Beginning at 3rd level, the barbarian retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

Damage Reduction: Beginning at 3rd level, the barbarian becomes able to simply shrug off damage. She gains damage reduction 1/-.

At 5th level, the barbarian’s damage reduction increases to 3/-

Paragon (Undying Frenzy): At 6th level, the barbarian is a machine of indestructible rage. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, she gains fast healing 2.


*****



The Fighter
Hit Points: 7

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 1-1 The Fighter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0| Bonus Feat, Adaptable Focus

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+0| Weapon Mastery I, Dodge Roll 1/encounter

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1| Bonus Feat, Battle Hardened

4th|
+4|
+4|
+2|
+1| Weapon Mastery II, Dodge Roll 2/encounter

5th|
+5|
+4|
+2|
+1| Bonus Feat, Focused Strike

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+3|
+2| Paragon (Perfect Form), Dodge Roll 3/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fighters are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, the fighter gains a bonus feat drawn from the list of fighter bonus feats. He must meet the prerequisites of the feat to select it.

At 3rd and 5th level the fighter gains an additional bonus feat from the list of fighter bonus feats.

Adaptable Focus: Beginning at 1st level, the fighter learns wield weapons with great skill. He may select a number of weapons equal to ½ his class level (rounded down, minimum 1) at the beginning of each day. As long as a weapon is selected, the fighter gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls with that weapon. If he has the Weapon Focus feat, he may select a new weapon to apply it to when he makes this selection. The bonus granted by Adaptable Focus does not stack with the bonus granted by Weapon Focus.

Dodge Roll: Beginning at 2nd level, the fighter learns to dodge attacks with great skill. Once per encounter, as an immediate action, he may declare he is dodging a single melee attack that would have otherwise struck him. This action must be declared before damage is dealt, and turns the successful attack into a miss. Additionally, the fighter may take a 5ft step immediately after using this ability.

At 4th level, the fighter may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level he may use it three times per encounter.

Weapon Mastery: Beginning at 2nd level, the fighter begins to master the use of weaponry. He increases the critical threat range of all weapons he wields by 1. This ability applies after such effects as the keen weapon property or the Weapon Focus feat.

At 4th level, the fighter’s ability improves again. He increases the critical multiplier of all weapons he wields by 1.

Battle Hardened: Beginning at 3rd level, the fighter learns to toughen his resolve and quicken his reflexes. He receives a +2 bonus to Initiative and to saves against fear effects.

Focused Strike: Beginning at 5th level, the fighter becomes one with his weapons. He receives a bonus equal to ½ his class level to damage with any weapon he has Weapon Focus with.

Paragon (Perfect Form): At 6th level, the fighter is the indisputable master of any battle. He gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, once per round he may take 10 on an attack roll. He must decide to use this ability before rolling to hit.


*****



The Marshal
Hit Points: 7

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 1-1 The Marshal
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2| Minor Auras, Coordinated Attack

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3| Major Auras +1, Draw Out 1/encounter

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3| Inspiring Presence I, Tactical Mastery

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4| Major Auras +2, Draw Out 2/encounter

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4| Inspiring Presence II, Commanding Presence

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5| Paragon (True Commander), Draw Out 3/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Marshals are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

Auras: The marshal exerts an effect on allies in her vicinity. She can learn to produce different effects, or auras, over the course of her career. The marshal may project one minor aura and (starting at 2nd level) one major aura at a time.

Projecting an aura is a swift action. The aura remains in effect until the marshal uses a free action to dismiss it or activates another aura of the same kind (major or minor). A marshal can have an aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before the marshal takes her first turn (but see below on major auras).

Activating an aura involves haranguing, ordering, directing, encouraging, cajoling, or calming allies. A marshal sizes up the enemy, allies, and the terrain, then gives allies the direction that they can use to do their best.

Unless otherwise noted, a marshal's aura affects all allies within 60 feet (including himself). An ally must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher and be able to understand the marshal's language to gain the bonus. A marshal's aura is dismissed if she is dazed, unconscious, stunned, paralyzed, or otherwise unable to be heard or understood by her allies.

A marshal begins play knowing one minor aura of her choice. At each level indicated in Table: Marshal Auras, she learns either a minor or a major aura, as appropriate.


Marshal Auras
{table=head]Level|Minor|Major

1st|
2|
-

2nd|
3|
1

3rd|
3|
2

4th|
4|
2

5th|
4|
3

6th|
5|
3
[/table]

Minor Aura: A minor aura lets allies add the marshal's Charisma bonus (if any) to certain rolls. However, a minor aura is limited by experience -- a marshal cannot grant a bonus higher than her marshal level +1, even if her Charisma bonus is greater than this.

Accurate Strike: Bonus on rolls made to confirm critical hits.
Art of War: Bonus on disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
Demand Fortitude: Bonus on Fortitude saves.
Force of Will: Bonus on Will saves.
Master of Opportunity: Bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity.
Master of Tactics: Bonus on damage rolls when flanking.
Motivate Constitution: Bonus on Constitution checks and Constitution-based skill checks.
Motivate Dexterity: Bonus on Dexterity checks, Dexterity-based skill checks, and initiative checks.
Motivate Strength: Bonus on Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks.
Over the Top: Bonus on damage rolls when charging.
Watchful Eye: Bonus on Reflex saves.

Major Aura: Beginning at 2nd level, a marshal can project a major aura in addition to her minor aura. A major aura lets allies add +1 to certain rolls. This bonus improves to +2 at 4th level. The bonus from a major aura only applies during an encounter; although it may be active before the encounter begins, your team is not in the proper state of mind to benefit from it until the encounter starts. Benefits from an active major aura apply to each individual on their first turn with no particular action on the part of the marshal.

Hardy Soldiers: The marshal’s allies gain damage reduction equal to the bonus granted by the Major Aura. For example, if the marshal is 1st level, everyone affected gains DR 1/-.
Motivate Ardor: The marshal’s allies gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to the bonus granted by the Major Aura.
Motivate Attack: The marshal’s allies gain a bonus on melee attack rolls equal to the bonus granted by the Major Aura.
Motivate Care: The marshal’s allies gain a bonus to armor class equal to the bonus granted by the Major Aura.
Motivate Urgency: The marshal’s allies gain a bonus to their base speed equal to the 5ft per point of bonus granted by the Major Aura.
Resilient Troops: The marshal’s allies gain a bonus on saving throws equal to the bonus granted by the Major Aura.
Steady Hand: The marshal’s allies gain a bonus on ranged attack rolls equal to the bonus granted by the Major Aura.
Coordinated Attack: Beginning at 1st level, the marshal learns to make her allies function better as a group. When adjacent to an opponent, the marshal grants all her allies a +1 circumstance bonus to attack rolls against that opponent. This stacks with the flanking bonus and the bonuses granted by the marshal’s aura.

Draw Out: Beginning at 2nd level, the marshal learns to cause her opponents to open up their guard. Once per encounter, as a standard action, she may make a single melee or ranged attack against a single foe. If this attack lands, each ally threatening the target gains an immediate free attack at their highest base attack bonus against that opponent.

At 4th level, the marshal may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level she may use it three times per encounter.

Tactical Mastery: Beginning at 3rd level, the marshal’s knowledge of battle tactics enables her allies to fight better than ever before. The marshal may select a single feat that she possesses. All allies affected by her aura gains the benefits of that feat, even if they do not meet the prerequisites. The marshal may change this feat at any time as a swift action.

Inspiring Presence: Beginning at 3rd level, the marshal’s presence on the battlefield inspires her allies to new heights. She may project an additional minor aura.

At 5th level the marshal may also project an additional major aura.

Commanding Presence: Beginning at 5th level, the marshal’s commanding presence increases. Her auras now affect all allies out to 120ft.

Paragon (True Commander): At 6th level a marshal reaches the pinnacle of her combat abilities. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, once per encounter, as a swift action, he may grant an additional full-round action to a number of allies equal to his Charisma modifier.


*****



The Monk
Hit Points: 6

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 1-1 The Monk
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2| Unarmed Combat Mastery, Battle Awareness

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3| Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist 1/encounter

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3| Evasion, Ki Strike

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4| Greater Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist 2/encounter

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4| Slow Fall, Intuitive Strike

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5| Paragon (Knockout Punch), Stunning Fist 3/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with the all simple weapons, the handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, siangham, and the sling. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields

Unarmed Combat Mastery: Beginning at 1st level, the monk learns to make unarmed strikes with incredible skill. He gains the feat Improved Unarmed Combat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Additionally, his unarmed strikes deal 1d6 points of damage instead of 1d3 points of damage (for medium creatures).

Battle Awareness: Beginning at 1st level, the Monk leans to dodge attacks with ease. He adds his Wisdom modifier to his Armor Class. He also gains a Dodge bonus to his Armor Class equal to ½ his class level.

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Flurry of Blows: Beginning at 2nd level, the monk can strike with a flurry of blows. When making an unarmed strike or using a monk weapon, he may double his normal attacks each round as a full-round action, but all attacks that round suffer a -2 penalty on the attack roll.

At 4th level the monk takes no penalty to this action.

Stunning Fist: Beginning at 2nd level, the monk can strike at his opponent’s nerves, rendering them incapable of motion. Once per encounter, as a standard action, he may make an unarmed strike against an opponent. If this attack lands, his opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the monk’s character level + ½ the monk’s Wisdom modifier) or be stunned for 1 round and take 2 points of Dexterity damage.

At 4th level, the monk may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level he may use it three times per encounter.

Evasion: Beginning at 3rd level, the monk can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Ki Strike: Beginning at 3rd level, the monk can injure the greatest of beasts with his blows. His unarmed attacks overcome damage reduction as if they were magic.

Slow Fall: Beginning at 5th level, the monk can land a jump of almost any height. She ignore all damage from the first 60ft of any fall.

Intuitive Strike: Beginning at 5th level, the monk can place his blows with incredible accuracy. He may add his Wisdom modifier to his unarmed damage.

Paragon (Knockout Punch): At 6th level, the monk reaches the pinnacle of his skills. He gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, whenever he scores a critical hit with an unarmed strike his opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 13 + the monk’s Wisdom modifier) or immediately take non-lethal damage equal to its current hit points.


*****



The Rogue
Hit Points: 5

Skill Points at each level: 8 + Int Modifier

Table 1-1 The Rogue
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0| Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding

2nd|
+1|
+1|
+3|
+0| Evasion, Hidden Strike 1/encounter

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1| Sneak Attack +2d6, Uncanny Dodge

4th|
+3|
+2|
+4|
+1| Improved Evasion, Hidden Strike 2/encounter

5th|
+3|
+2|
+4|
+1| Sneak Attack +3d6, Stealthy

6th|
+4|
+3|
+5|
+2| Paragon (Subtle Motion), Hidden Strike 3/encounter[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Rogues are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Sneak Attack: Beginning at 1st level, the rogue learns to place his attacks where they will deal the most damage. If a rogue can catch an opponent when it is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks his target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Trapfinding: Beginning at 1st level, the rogue leans to find and disable traps. Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.

Evasion: Beginning at 2nd level, the rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

At 4th level a rogue only takes half damage on a failed save.

Hidden Strike: Beginning at 2nd level, the rogue can make an attack that slips past his opponent’s guard, striking vital locations. Once per encounter, as a standard action, he may make a single attack. His target is denied its Dexterity bonus to armor class against this attack, thus allowing the rogue to make a sneak attack.

At 4th level, the rogue may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level he may use it three times per encounter.

Uncanny Dodge: Beginning at 3rd level, the rogue can react to danger before his senses would normally allow her to do so. He retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

Stealthy: Beginning at 5th level, the rogue can move unseen and unheard. He may take 10 on all Hide and Move Silently checks.

Paragon (Subtle Motion): At 6th level, the rogue reaches the pinnacle of his skills. He gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, he no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for moving through threatened squares.


*****



The Scout
Hit Points: 6

Skill Points at each level: 8 + Int Modifier

Table 1-1 The Scout
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0| Skirmish +1d6, Track

2nd|
+1|
+1|
+3|
+0| Fast Movement +10ft, Fading Attack 1/encounter

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1| Skirmish +1d6/+1, Trackless Step

4th|
+3|
+2|
+4|
+1| Fast Movement +20ft, Fading Attack 2/encounter

5th|
+3|
+2|
+4|
+1| Skirmish +2d6/+1, Flawless Stride

6th|
+4|
+3|
+5|
+2| Paragon (First Strike), Fading Attack 3/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Scouts are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the handaxe, throwing axe, short sword and shortbow. Scouts are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Skirmish: Beginning at 1st level, the scout learns to use her speed and agility to strike deadly blows. She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The extra damage only applies to attacks made during the scout’s turn. The extra damage increases to 2d6 at 5th level.

Skirmish works only on living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The scout must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

Beginning at 3rd level, the scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. This bonus applies until the start of her next turn.

A scout loses this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Track: Beginning at 1st level, the scout leans to track her foes through almost any terrain. She gains Track as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

Fast Movement: Beginning at 2nd level, the scout gains a +10ft bonus to her base land speed.

At 4th level the scout gains an additional +10ft bonus to her base land speed for a total of +20ft.

Fading Attack: Beginning at 2nd level, the scout can rush forward, attacking a foe and using the resulting distraction to vanish from sight once again. Once per encounter, as a full-round action, the scout may move up to her base land speed. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. At any point during this movement she may make a single melee or ranged attack at her highest base attack bonus. Finally, she may make a Hide check at the end of the action, even if she is being observed.

At 4th level, the scout may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level she may use it three times per encounter.

Trackless Step: Beginning at 3rd level, the scout leaves no trail when she moves. She may not be tracked, although she may choose to leave a trail if she wishes to do so.

Flawless Stride: Beginning at 5th level, the scout can move through almost any obstacle. She suffers no movement speed penalty for moving through difficult terrain.

Paragon (First Strike): At 6th level, the scout reaches the pinnacle of his skills. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, she is considered to always roll a 20 when calculating initiative order.


*****

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Prestige Classes

-Designing a Prestige Class-
-Sample Prestige Classes-


Designing A Prestige Class

Designing a Prestige Class is very similar to designing a Base Class, and the process has the same goals: the end result should be flavorful, unique, and granted enough interesting abilities to be tempting without being good enough to make other choices meaningless.

Designing your own Prestige Classes is an important part of G6. With only six levels to develop a character’s skills, it may become necessary to design a class. With that in mind, here is the format used to create a Prestige Class.


The [Class Name]
Hit Points: (4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: (N/A, +2, +3)
Feats:
Skills:
Special:

Skill Points at each level: (4, 6, 8) + Int Modifier

Table 3-1: The [Class Name]
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Class Ability, Encounter Ability 1/encounter

2nd|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Class Ability, Class Ability

3rd|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Paragon (Capstone Ability), Encounter Ability 2/encounter[/table]

Base Attack Bonus: Increases by one of the following patterns: (+0, +1, +1), (+0, +1,+ 2), or (+1, +2, +3)

Saving Throws: Increase each save by one of the following patterns: (+0, +0, +1) or (+1, +2, +2)

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Most Prestige Classes do not grant additional weapon or armor proficiency. There are exceptions to this rule, however.

Class Ability: Class abilities are unlimited abilities that range from the mundane to the extraordinary. They should be simple, flavorful, and not overpowering.

Encounter Ability: Encounter abilities are unique moves that give a character options in battle. These can be anything from more powerful versions of a normal attack to horrible curses to cripple your foes.

Paragon (Capstone Ability): At third level a character gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, he gains a single, powerful ability that cannot be duplicated by any other class.


Sample Prestige Classes

The Archer
The Defender
The Hexblade
The Lasher
The Knight
The Shadowdancer
The Swashbuckler
The Witch Hunter


The Archer
Hit Points: 6

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Feats: Precise Shot

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-2: The Archer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+1|
+0| Combat Shot, Perfect Shot 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+2|
+0| Deadly Accuracy, Follow-up Shot

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+2|
+1| Paragon (Through the Eye), Perfect Shot 2/encounter[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Archers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Combat Shot: Beginning at 1st level an Archer provokes no attacks of opportunity for attacking with a ranged weapon.

Perfect Shot: Beginning at 1st level an Archer may make a flawless shot. As a standard action he may make a single attack which automatically hits his target.

At 3rd level an Archer may use this ability twice per encounter.

Deadly Accuracy: Beginning at 2nd level an Archer’s accuracy is beyond compare. He may add his Dexterity bonus to all damage rolls made when using a ranged weapon.

Follow-up Shot: Beginning at 2nd level an Archer learns to compensate for range and cover. If he misses his target with a ranged attack he receives a +2 bonus on his next ranged attack against that same target.

Paragon (Through the Eye): At 3rd level an Archer is the perfect sniper. He gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, he now deals double damage every time he uses his Perfect Shot ability.


*****



The Defender
Hit Points: 8

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Feats: Great Fortitude

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-3: The Defender
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+0| Immobile, Defensive Stance 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+0| Challenge, Solid Barrier

3rd|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+1| Paragon (Unyielding Might), Defensive Stance 2/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Defenders gain no additional weapon proficiency. He gains proficiency with light, medium, and heavy armor, as well as with shields (including Tower Shields).

Immobile: Beginning at 1st level a Defender roots himself firmly in place. He gains a +4 bonus to resist any attempts to move him.

Defensive Stance: Beginning at 1st level a Defender may anchor himself to the ground, becoming a veritable wall. He gains a +4 bonus to his armor class, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and Damage Reduction 3/- for a number of rounds equal to 3 + his Constitution modifier, although the effect can be ended at will. While in his Defensive Stance, the Defender may move no more than five feet in a single round.

At 3rd level a Defender may use this ability twice per encounter.

Challenge: Beginning at 2nd level a Defender’s presence draws his opponents to attack him. As a standard action he may issue a challenge to all foes within 30ft. All foes within range must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + the Defender’s class level + the Defender’s Charisma modifier) or be forced to attack the Defender over all other targets for 1d4 rounds.

Solid Barrier: Beginning at 2nd level a Defender becomes as impassible as a wall. Any time he makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent, that opponent’s movement immediately stops, as if they had finished their move in the square where they were struck.

Paragon (Unyielding Might): At 3rd level a Defender is completely unyielding and immovable. He gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, while in Defensive Stance, his reach increases to 10ft and he may make an unlimited number of attacks of opportunity each round.


*****



The Hexblade
Hit Points: 7

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +2
Feats: Iron Will

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-4: The Hexblade
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+1| Touched by Fate, Curse 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+2| Aura of Unluck, Mettle

3rd|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+2| Paragon (Dark Soul), Curse 2/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hexblades gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Touched by Fate: Beginning at 1st level a Hexblade adds her Charisma modifier to all saving throws.

Curse: Beginning at 1st level a Hexblade may, as a swift action, invoke a terrible curse against an opponent within 60ft. Her opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + the Hexblade’s class level + the Hexblade’s Charisma modifier) or take a -2 penalty to armor class, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 hour per Hexblade level.

At 3rd level a Hexblade may use this ability twice per encounter.

Aura of Unluck: Beginning at 2nd level a Hexblade is surrounded by an aura of misfortune. All opponents within 10ft of her take a -1 penalty to armor class, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and skill checks. This ability stacks with the Hexblade’s Curse ability.

Mettle: Beginning at 2nd level a Hexblade’s will is beyond that of normal mortals. If she makes a successful Fortitude or Will saving throw against a spell or ability that has a partial effect on a successful saving throw, she instead suffers no effects.

Paragon (Dark Soul): At 3rd level a Hexblade is a paragon of misfortune. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, foes within 10ft of her suffer a 20% miss chance on all attacks.


*****



The Knight
Hit Points: 8

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Feats: Mounted Combat
Skills: Ride 6 ranks

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-5: The Knight
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+0| Spirited Charge, Heal Mount 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+0| Master Rider, Trample

3rd|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+1| Paragon (Mount Bond), Heal Mount 2/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Knights gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Spirited Charge: Beginning at 1st level a Knight learns to use her mounts movement to the best of her advantage. She deals double damage on charge attacks when mounted (x3 damage if she wields a lance).

Heal Mount: Beginning at 1st level a Knight learns how to keep her mount up when it would otherwise fall underneath her. Once per encounter, as a swift action, she may heal her mount of a number of hit points equal to ten times her class level.

At 3rd level a Knight may use this ability twice per encounter.

Master Rider: Beginning at 2nd level a Knight learns to stay in the saddle regardless of the conditions around her. She may take 10 on all Ride checks, even if rushed or threatened.

Trample: Beginning at 2nd level a Knight can use her mount to trample her foes underfoot. As a full-round action she may move up to twice her mount’s base speed. This movement provokes no attacks of opportunity, and the Knight may move through squares occupied by any creature at least one size category smaller than her mount.

Any creature run over in this manner takes damage equal to 2d6 + The Mount’s Strength modifier and falls prone. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + the Knight’s class level + the Knight’s Dexterity modifier) negates all effects.

Paragon (Mount Bond): At 3rd level a Knight is the epitome of the mounted warrior. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, when the Knight is mounted, both she and her mount gain Damage Reduction 4/- and a +2 bonus to all saving throws.


*****



The Lasher
Hit Points: 6

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +2
Feats: Weapon Focus (Whip or Whip-Dagger)

Skill Points at each level: 6 + Int Modifier

Table 3-6: The Lasher
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+0| Whiplash, Crack of Doom 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+0| Prehensile Flick, Deafening Crack

3rd|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+1| Paragon (Lashing Fury), Crack of Doom 2/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Lashers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Whiplash: Beginning at 1st level a Lasher provokes no attacks of opportunity for attacking with a whip and deals full damage even to opponents wearing armor. Additionally, she may also coil up her whip as a swift action.

Crack of Doom: Beginning at 1st level a Lasher can stun her foes with a crack of her whip. Once per encounter she may make a touch attack against a foe within range. If the attack lands, it deals normal damage and her opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the Lasher’s class level + the Lasher’s Dexterity modifier) or be stunned and deafened for 1d2 rounds.

At 3rd level a Lasher may use this ability twice per encounter.

Prehensile Flick: At 2nd level a Lasher has reached the point where her whip is almost an extension of her body. She may take a standard action to grab any object within her range and wrap her whip around it. If the object weighs less than 20lbs she may pull it to her as a free action. If it weighs between 21 and 50lbs she must take a standard action to pull it close. Objects above 51lbs cannot be pulled.

Additionally, if the Lasher would make a Reflex save to avoid falling and fails, she may re-roll her saving throw if there is an immobile object nearby that she could wrap her whip around.

Deafening Crack: Beginning at 2nd level a Lasher can deafen her foes with the crack of her whip. Whenever she threatens a critical hit with her whip her opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the Lasher’s class level + the Lasher’s Dexterity modifier) or be deafened for 1d4 rounds.

Paragon (Lashing Fury): At 3rd level a Lasher reaches the pinnacle of her skill. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, whenever she uses her Deafening Crack ability she may target every opponent with range.



*****



The Shadowdancer
Hit Points: 5

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +2
Skills: Hide 6 ranks, Perform (Dance) 4 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks
Special: Evasion

Skill Points at each level: 6 + Int Modifier

Table 3-7: The Shadowdancer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+1|
+1| Darkvision +60ft, Shadow Step 1/encounter

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2| Shadow Companion, Improved Evasion

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+2|
+2| Paragon (Dance of Shadows), Shadow Step 2/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shadowdancers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Darkvision +60ft: Beginning at 1st level a Shadowdancer gains darkvision out to 60ft. If she already had darkvision, her existing darkvision’s range increases by 60ft.

Shadow Step: Beginning at 1st level a Shadowdancer may fade away into shadow to reappear elsewhere on the battlefield. Once per encounter, as a swift action, she may teleport to any unoccupied square within 50ft.

At 3rd level a Shadowdancer may use this ability twice per encounter.

Shadow Companion: Beginning at 2nd level a Shadowdancer gains a shadow companion. This entity occupies a 5ft square, yet may occupy it with another creature. All opponents within 5ft of the shadow companion take a -1 penalty to armor class, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and skill checks.

A shadow companion moves at a speed of 30ft per round, but if it ever travels more than 60ft from the Shadowdancer it vanishes, reappearing at her side 1 round later. Additionally, a Shadowdancer can call her companion to her side as a swift action.

A shadow companion cannot be damaged or killed.

Improved Evasion: Beginning at 2nd level a Shadowdancer’s Evasion ability improves. She takes no damage on a successful Reflex save and only half damage on a failed save.

Paragon (Dance of Shadows): At 3rd level a Shadowdancer has fused her very soul with the essence of shadow. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, once per encounter she may turn herself into a creature of shadow as a swift action. In this form she gains the incorporeal subtype and gains a melee touch attack that deals cold damage equal to 1d8 + the Shadowdancer’s Charisma modifier and 1d4 points of Strength damage. A successful Fortitude save (DC 13 + the Shadowdancer’s Charisma modifier) negates the Strength damage. Dance of Shadows lasts a number of rounds equal to 3 + the Shadowdancer’s Charisma modifier.


*****



The Swashbuckler
Hit Points: 7

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +2
Feats: Weapon Finesse
Skills: Tumble 6 ranks

Skill Points at each level: 6 + Int Modifier

Table 3-8: The Swashbuckler
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+1|
+0| Panache, Riposte 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+2|
+0| Precise Strike, Sidestep

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+2|
+1| Paragon (Vital Strike), Riposte 2/encounter[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Swashbucklers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Panache: Beginning at 1st level a Swashbuckler adds her Charisma modifier to her armor class when wearing light armor or no armor and wielding a one-handed weapon.

Riposte: Beginning at 2nd level a Swashbuckler gains the ability to see openings in her foes defense and strike through them with alarming accuracy. Once per encounter, when an opponent has missed the Swashbuckler with a melee attack, the Swashbuckler may make a single attack against that foe as an immediate action.

At 3rd level a Swashbuckler may use this ability twice per encounter.

Precise Strike: Beginning at 2nd level a Swashbuckler strikes with incredible precision. She adds an additional 1d6 points of damage to any attack she makes with a one-handed weapon.

Sidestep: Beginning at 2nd level a Swashbuckler becomes extremely adept at moving in combat. Whenever she could take a 5ft step she may instead move up to 10ft without drawing attacks of opportunity.

Paragon (Vital Strike): At 3rd level a Swashbuckler is truly the master of the blade. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, whenever the Swashbuckler makes a melee attack with a one-handed weapon she also deals 1 point of Constitution damage.


*****



The Witch Hunter
Hit Points: 7

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +2
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks
Special: Must not possess arcane spellcasting or spell-like abilities duplicating arcane spells.

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-9: The Witch Hunter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+1| Sense Magic, Exorcise 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+2| Favored Enemy (spellcasters), Mettle

3rd|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+2| Paragon (Untouched by Witchery), Exorcise 2/encounter [/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Witch Hunters gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Sense Magic: Beginning at 1st level a Witch Hunter gains the ability to see magic. If a character, monster, or item possesses arcane spells, arcane spell-like abilities, or magical qualities duplicating arcane spells the Witch Hunter sees them surrounded by a thin veil of black smoke. This ability is always active.

Exorcise: Beginning at 1st level a Witch Hunter may block his opponent’s access to their mystical powers. As a swift action he may invoke Exorcise on a creature or item within 60ft. The creature or object so affected must make a Will save (DC 10 + the Witch Hunter’s class level + the Witch Hunter’s Charisma modifier) or lose access to all arcane spellcasting, spell-like abilities duplicating arcane spells, and all supernatural abilities for a number of rounds equal to the Witch Hunter’s Charisma modifier.

At 3rd level a Witch Hunter may use this ability twice per encounter.

Favored Enemy (spellcasters): Beginning at 2nd level a Witch Hunter learns the secrets of fighting spellcasters. He receives a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures with arcane spells or spell-like abilities duplicating arcane spells. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

Mettle: Beginning at 2nd level a Witch Hunter’s will is beyond that of normal mortals. If he makes a successful Fortitude or Will saving throw against a spell or ability that has a partial effect on a successful saving throw, he instead suffers no effects.

Paragon (Untouched by Witchery): At 3rd level a Witch Hunter has become an unrelenting enemy of the occult. He gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, he gains unbeatable spell resistance against all arcane spells and spell-like abilities.


*****

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Feats

-How Feats Work-
-The Reason for the Change-
-Designing a Feat-
-Example Feats-


How Feats Work

Feats have changed very little for G6. Characters begin play with 2 feats, and gain additional feats at levels 2, 4, and 6. The only difference is that feats in G6 improve with your level. You begin play with the stage I ability of all your feats. At level 3, 5, and 6 you unlock the next stage in the sequence. This applies to all your feats; a level four character has four feats, and has stages I-III for all of them.

The other result of this is that feats no longer require other feats as prerequisites. All feats have varying power levels, and these levels have replaced the complicated feat trees of D&D and E6.


The Reason for the Change

In previous games, feats have been nothing more than a minor benefit compared to your class features. But a feat is supposed to be just that: a feat. Something special that can't be done by most people. Something that sets you apart.

The other problem with feats was the diminishing returns. Weapon Focus might look like a good feat at 1st level, but by the time you hit 15th its usefulness had declined significantly.

The G6 feat system solves both these problems. By granting both static and per encounter abilities at different stages, feats give new and exciting abilities to players; thing that the other people around the table won't be able to do. They help define a character past the point of mere class selection, and they grant abilities to back this definition up mechanically. Additionally, they scale, with their abilities getting better and better as you progress in level. At level 6, Power Attack allows you to strike a truly devastating blow, while Weapon Focus might get you an automatic critical. So no feat is a waste; all will net you something amazing in the end.


Designing a Feat

Like designing a Prestige Class, designing feats is an important part of G6. It allows for customization beyond your classes, and gives your character a host of unique and special abilities to rely upon.

Feats follow the following formula:

[Feat Name]
Prerequisites:
I: The Stage I ability, gained at 0th level. Stage I abilities are static benefits, or unlimited use abilities.
II: The Stage II ability, gained at 3rd level. Stage II abilities are usable once per encounter, but usually have some power to back this limited use up.
III: The Stage III ability, gained at 5th level. Stage III abilities are static benefits, or unlimited use abilities.
IV: The Stage IV ability, gained at 6th level. Stage IV abilities are usable once per encounter, but are usually extremely potent.


Example Feats

Hero’s Luck
Prerequisites: None
I: You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws.
II: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may re-roll a single d20 roll. You must take the re-roll, even if it worse than the original roll.
III: Whenever you roll a natural 20, you gain a +2 luck bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saving throws until the end of the current encounter. This bonus is cumulative, and stacks with all other luck bonuses.
IV: Once per encounter, when you roll a natural 1, you may treat the result as if you had rolled a natural 20 instead.

Power Attack
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Str 13+
I: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.
Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)
II: Once per encounter, when wielding a melee weapon, you may take a standard action to deliver a crippling blow to your opponent. Make an attack against a single opponent. If the attack is successful your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Strength modifier) or be shaken until the end of the encounter.
III: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.
IV: Once per encounter, when wielding a melee weapon, you may take a standard action to hideously wound your opponent. Make an attack against a single opponent. If the attack is successful your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Strength modifier) or take 2d4 points of Constitution damage. A successful save reduces this to 1d4 points of Constitution damage.

Powerful Charge
Prerequisites: None
I: You deal an additional +1d8 points of damage whenever you make a charge attack. Additionally, you gain a +4 bonus to Strength checks involved in Bull Rush attempts and no longer draw attacks of opportunity for initiating Bull Rushes.
II: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may make a charge attack against a single opponent. If the attack is successful, your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ your class level + your Strength modifier) or be stunned for 1 round.
III: You deal an additional +1d10 points of damage whenever you make a charge attack. This overrides the additional damage from the stage I ability. Additionally, you gain an additional +2 bonus to your attack roll when you make a charge attack.
IV: Once per encounter, as a full round action, you may make a charge attack against a single opponent. If the attack is successful, you may choose to initiate a Bull Rush as a free action. You may push them as far as you would normally be allowed, so long as your movement does not exceed twice your land speed.

Precise Shot
Prerequisites: None
I: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls when making ranged attacks against targets within 30ft. Additionally, you no longer take the -4 penalty for shooting into melee.
II: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may make a single ranged attack against an opponent within sight. You take no penalty on this attack roll, regardless of the distance to the target.
III: You ignore all Cover bonuses to Armor Class with the exception of Total Cover. Additionally, the range increment for any ranged weapon you wield increases by 50%.
IV: Once per encounter, as a full round action, you may make a single ranged attack against an opponent within sight. If the attack is successful you deal an additional 10 points of damage.

Quick Draw
Prerequisites: None
I: You may draw a weapon as a free action. You may draw a hidden weapon as a move action. Additionally, you gain a +1 bonus to Reflex saves.
II: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may draw a weapon and make a single melee attack. Your opponent is considered flat-footed against this attack.
III: You deal an additional 2 points of damage against flat-footed opponents. Additionally, you gain a +1 bonus to Initiative.
IV: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may draw a weapon and make a single melee attack. Add your Initiative modifier to damage on this attack.

Weapon Focus
Prerequisites: None
I: Choose a specific weapon. You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls when wielding that weapon. If that weapon is an exotic weapon, you gain proficiency in it. Additionally, you gain a +1 weapon bonus to you Armor Class when wielding your chosen weapon.
II: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may make a single attack with your chosen weapon. This attack deals an additional 5 points of damage.
III: When wielding your chosen weapon, your critical threat range increases by 1. Additionally, you deal an additional 2 points of damage when wielding your chosen weapon.
IV: Once per encounter, when you score a critical threat with your chosen weapon, you may automatically confirm the critical. You must choose to use this ability before you roll the confirmation roll.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

--reserved II--

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

--reserved III--

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

--Reserved IV--

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

--Reserved V--

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

--Reserved VI--

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

--Reserved VII--

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

--Reserved VIII--

Posting may now begin.

[GryffonDurime]

Impressive from what I've seen so far.

While I'm not generally a fan of the idea behind a "Zero" level, I look forward to seeing the whole picture of your project here.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Impressive from what I've seen so far.

Thanks! Hopefully I can continue to produce that reaction.


While I'm not generally a fan of the idea behind a "Zero" level, I look forward to seeing the whole picture of your project here.

Well, it's just an option. It's entirely possible (and even very easy) to begin a character at level 1. In fact, I'd expect that most campaigns will do just that. But for your average commoner or campaigns that want a humble beginning, it's there.

Creating a level 1 character is as easy as picking two feats, adding (4 + Int) x3 skills to your class skills, and adding you Con score to your hp. It's that easy.

[GryffonDurime]

Regardless, what I'm really looking forward to is seeing your take on G6 magic.

[Maerok]

I like this a lot! Less fretting over how to build a character to allow for pick up and run with it gameplay. After returning to DnD from a brief focus on diceless systems, I've come to realize how much of an unnecessary bother it is to make a DnD character. I've been hoping to run an E6 for a while over the summer, so I'll hand back any data if I do.

Definitely enough variety as is to allow a wide spectrum of character options that feel right without seeming manufactured.

Are 3.5 monsters mostly compatible with G6 as they were in E6?

I didn't even notice the absence of magic here...

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

3.5 monsters are compatible, but consider upping the CR by 1-2 depending on circumstances and party make-up. This is because characters have slightly more Hp and more abilities to help them at any given level.

As for magic, it'll be along in its own time. I still need to figure out exactly how it'll work.

[Maerok]

I think the zero-level option is entirely necessary in something like this. I get the image of a commoner defending a village by dropping rocks onto the heads of raiding orcs before eventually becoming an armor-clad warrior.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Added the Feats section, explaining Feat design and offering a few of those currently finished.

I'm always looking for people willing to lend a hand in the following departments:

Base Class Design
Prestige Class Design
Feat Design
Playtesting
Rules/Balance Critique

Any and all help is greatly appreciated! I'd like to see this project go somewhere, but I'm going to need some support to do that.

-The Djinn

Edit: only 4 1/2 hours (beginning at 9:38pm EST and officially opening at 10:22pm, no less) and its already got 187 views? Awesome! Let's hope this trend keeps up.

[Maerok]

Skill Focus
Prerequisites: Choose a skill you have at least one rank in, or Initiative.
I: You gain a +2 bonus to all checks of that skill.
II: Once per encounter, you may take 10 on the skill check even if under stress. The bonus is now +3.
III: The bonus improves to +4.
IV: Once per encounter, you may reroll the skill check and take the better of the two results.

[Tengu]

So, a level 0 character with 11 or less Con has 0 HP? Or do you get at least 1 HP per level, including level 0?

I personally think level 0 or 1 characters should get some additional HP. It feels wrong for a level 2 character to have twice as much HP as level 1, while all other things improve only slightly. Maybe 3*Con modifier HP at level 0?

Also, in E6 you can get more and more feats, ad infinitum, after reaching level 6. Can you improve further after reaching level 6 in G6?

I must also add that this looks interesting. I don't like E6, but G6 seems to have potential.

[Lord_Gareth]

I'm here (with muffins) and I bring (virgin sacrifices) my entire effed up mind with me ^_^

I'll likely entrench myself deep into the PrC section - I may remake Pelorian Crusader (just 'cause that'd be more awesome). Expect to see feats as well ^_^

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So, a level 0 character with 11 or less Con has 0 HP? Or do you get at least 1 HP per level, including level 0?

No. Your Hp is equal to you Constitutionscore, not modifier. Said character would have 11 hp.


Also, in E6 you can get more and more feats, ad infinitum, after reaching level 6. Can you improve further after reaching level 6 in G6?

There will be rules for this once the rest of the system is sound.


I must also add that this looks interesting. I don't like E6, but G6 seems to have potential.

Thanks!


I'm here (with muffins) and I bring (virgin sacrifices) my entire effed up mind with me ^_^

I'll likely entrench myself deep into the PrC section - I may remake Pelorian Crusader (just 'cause that'd be more awesome). Expect to see feats as well ^_^

Awesome. I'd prefer more generic class names (although the mechanics are probably fine), but that's just me. Anything you have to offer is amazing.

[Tengu]

No. Your Hp is equal to you Constitutionscore, not modifier. Said character would have 11 hp.


Okay, this is great. Can't wait for more to come.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Skill Focus
Prerequisites: Choose a skill you have at least one rank in.
I: You gain a +2 bonus to all checks of that skill.
II: Once per encounter, you may take 10 on the skill check even if under stress. The bonus is now +3.
III: The bonus improves to +4.
IV: Once per encounter, you may reroll the skill check and take the better of the two results.

Good, except for two things. First off, it's a little weak compared to everything else. Secondly, it improves the static bonus at a Per Encounter stage. Maybe make it something like this:

Skill Focus
Prerequisites: Any two skills 1 rank
I: Choose two skill you have at least one rank in. You gain a +2 bonus to all checks with both of those skills.
II: Once per encounter, you may take 10 on a skill check involving one of the selected skills, even if under stress.
III: The bonus to your skill checks improves to +4.
IV: Once per encounter, you may reroll a skill check involving one of the selected skills and take the better of the two results.

or

IV: Once per encounter, you use a skill check with one of the selected skills in place of any other d20 roll, provided you can justify the use to the GM's satisfaction.

[Pronounceable]

If only this sort of variant was around, I wouldn't have had to homebrew an entire system. I like everything I've seen. Keep going.

How's magic gonna be? The standard spell level stuff will not work, so there'd either be some point system or powers similar to 4E. Points work well in the absence of exponentially powerful spell levels, while free/encounter/daily power format will make things easier for class design. It's up to you.

And a weird idea just hit me. If you go powers route, there's no wizard class. Each magic school has a different magic user with distinctly different abilities. A 1st level necromancer gets unlimited raising of quite weak undead, while 1st level evoker gets magic missile at will. All the while, 1st level illusioner can alter himself to his heart's content. Or something. No dice on sorcerers though.


I'll keep an eye on this thread.

[Fri]

This is good. I'm one of those people who loved DnD best at level 6.

As a lot of people here, my only concern is for the spell and magic based character. In the raw dnd, magic user only started being useful around level 6.

[Lord_Gareth]

Backstabber
Prerequisites: Sneak Attack class feature
Stage I - You gain a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls whenever your target is flat-footed.
Stage II - Once per encounter, when making a sneak attack in melee, you may double the extra damage dice you roll.
Stage III - You gain a +2 cover bonus to armor class on any round in which you make a sneak attack and do not move from the square that you made the attack in.
IV - Once per encounter, instead of a sneak attack, you may elect to strike a death blow. The victim must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + intelligence modifier) or die. A successful save negates this ability.

[GryffonDurime]

Hmm...I've got a possible magic system in mind, somewhat inspired by the Essentia mechanic of Incarnum.

I'll see if I can get anything up for your consideration today.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Backstabber
Prerequisites: Sneak Attack class feature
Stage I - You gain a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls whenever your target is flat-footed.
Stage II - Once per encounter, when making a sneak attack in melee, you may double the extra damage dice you roll.
Stage III - You gain a +2 cover bonus to armor class on any round in which you make a sneak attack and do not move from the square that you made the attack in.
IV - Once per encounter, instead of a sneak attack, you may elect to strike a death blow. The victim must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + intelligence modifier) or die. A successful save negates this ability.

Something like this should probably be a prestige class (like the Assassin). That said, I like all the features, but the Stage II ability would make a great Assassin encounter ability, and Death Blow would make a good Paragon ability.

Regarding Magic: I realized today that magic can be accomplished through feats (requiring spellcaster levels or a Magical Aptitude feat to take). Stage I grants an unlimited use power, Stage II a more powerful 1/encounter ability, Stage III an new or improved unlimited power, and Stage IV a powerful 1/encounter effect. Spellcasters gain this sort of feat at 1st, 3rd, and 5th level, with the option of using any of their other feats to take it again. This fits nicely with the system already in place without requiring a new class structure for spells.

Examples (wording to be refined):

Step Through Space
Prerequisites: Magical Aptitude, Relevant Casting Ability 14+
Stage I - As a standard action you can teleport to any unoccupied square within 10ft.
Stage II - Once per encounter, as a swift action, you can teleport to any unoccupied square within 50ft.
Stage III - As a standard action you can teleport yourself or an adjacent ally to any unoccupied square within 15ft.
Stage IV - Once per encounter, as a standard action, you can switch locations with any creature within 50ft. Unwilling creatures are entitled to a Will save to negate this effect (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your revelent casting ability modifier).



Soul of Fire
Prerequisites: Magical Aptitude, Relevant Casting Ability 14+
Stage I - As a standard action you can cause an opponent within 30ft to burst into flames. Your target takes 1d6 points of fire damage and must succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your revelent casting ability modifier).
Stage II - Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may launch a sheet of flame from your hands. All opponents within a 20ft cone take damage as if struck by your Stage I ability.
Stage III - Your stage I ability now deals 3d6 points of fire damage.
Stage IV - Once per encounter, as a full-round action, you can create a terrible explosion of flame. All creatures within 15ft of a point in space no more than 100ft away take 6d6 points of damage and catch on fire (A successful Reflex save halves the damage and negates the catching on fire).


Thoughts?

[Maerok]

Regarding Magic: I realized today that magic can be accomplished through feats (requiring spellcaster levels or a Magical Aptitude feat to take). Stage I grants an unlimited use power, Stage II a more powerful 1/encounter ability, Stage III an new or improved unlimited power, and Stage IV a powerful 1/encounter effect. Spellcasters gain this sort of feat at 1st, 3rd, and 5th level, with the option of using any of their other feats to take it again. This fits nicely with the system already in place without requiring a new class structure for spells.

Thoughts?

I had done something like this with a Victorian-era, horror, wuxia-scale system I was working on. You got two 'feats' a level (up to five levels) and could pursue melee or magic. Each feat gave a spell of the level you took the feat at, or two from a level below.

My biggest point was that each spell had a passive and active ability. You could only use the active ability X times per unit of time, but passive abilities are lesser, utility-based versions of the active that generally have unlimited uses. You should always have something to do.

By comparison, both systems seem to hit pretty close to the same chord.

[ErrantX]

Love this project so far, I'm a fan of E6 but I really prefer what you've got here so far.

As far as magic goes, I'd say those feat options would be fine, provided you made a generic spellcaster class that provides with those feats as an option, so therefore casters can really build themselves. Or separate it into arcane caster and divine caster, and give each one a choice of feats like those per level to customize their abilities in tiers. The level 1 feat gets powers 1-6, the level 2 feat gets powers 1-5, level 3 gets powers 1-4, etc etc. So they get to specialize some too, based on what they chose at level 1.

Just some ideas for ya.

-X

[tarkisflux]

I think I like this project (since I enjoy running gritty midlevel games), but I'll reserve judgement until there's a magic system of sorts in place :smallwink:.

I think the idea to do magic in a feat based way would be very interesting and probably work well, but you'd have to step it up a bit. I'll pick on Soul of Fire for right now, cause it's the easiest to compare with existing other stuff.

If I took it, I'd get a short range auto-hit damage effect (with a save or immolate). That's not bad, and after accounting for misses and other classes bonus damage I'd probably average the same as the fighter types. I'd have to be 3rd level to get a minor damage AoE once per encounter though, so I won't be useful as a crowd controller until then. And aside from that, the damage capacity of the thugs has increased while mine hasn't very much. It's not awful yet though, that comes in at lvl 5. At that point I get an auto hit 3d6, still have a single crappy AoE, and whatever I have from my other feats. The scout in the back with me with a longbow has to roll for hits, but will out damage me every time with skirmish. The rogue will do even more damage with their sneak attack, and they can guaranteed it twice per encounter. If they add feats in there, the disparity just gets worse, and since I'd be doing this damage with a feat there isn't anything I can add on to it to make it any better...

So if you're serious about turning magic into a feat based system, I think you need to make adjustments for them and turn them up a bit. Since feats are going to be their only source of combat options (besides poor melee rolls) you may as well make something that increases with level as their base option (like the class abilities of everyone else), and give them once per encounter abilities at the stages. I'd reorganize Soul of Fire into something more like this:

Soul of Fire
Prerequisites: Magical Aptitude, Relevant Casting Ability 14+
Automatic - As a standard action you can cause an opponent within 30ft. to burst into flames. Your target takes 1d6 points of fire damage at first level, increasing to 2d6 at 3rd level, 4d6 at 5th level, and 5d6 at 6th level. Targets must succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your revelent casting ability modifier).
Stage I - Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may launch a sheet of flame from your hands. All creatures within a 10' cone take damage as from your fire bust ability if they fail a reflex save, a successful save reduces the damage by half. Creatures who fail their reflex save must roll a second save against the same DC or catch fire. You can not use any ability from the Soul of Fire feat for one round after using this ability.
Stage II - Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may launch a line of fire from your hands. All creatures within a 30' line take damage as from your fire burst ability. This ability is otherwise similar to the Stage I cone ability. You can not use any ability from the Soul of Fire feat for one round after using this ability.
Stage III - Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may create a burst of flame centered on a point up to 120 ft. away. All creatures within 15' of this point suffer damage as from your flame burst ability. This ability is otherwise similar to the Stage I cone ability. You can not use any ability from the Soul of Fire feat for one round after using this ability.
Stage IV - Once per encounter, as a full-round action, you can create a terrible explosion of flame. All creatures within a 15ft radius of a point in space no more than 120ft away take 8d6 points of damage and must make a second reflex save or catch on fire. A successful Reflex save halves the damage and negates the catching on fire. You may not use any Soul of Fire ability for 2 rounds after using this ability.

That gives them a useful combat option on a normal round that's probaably equal to the melee classes in average damage, and gives them useful AoEs early on (like they have in regular d20) that come with a bit of a price (so the once per encount effects don't overshadow the meleers like they do in regular d20 :smallbiggrin:).

My $0.02 anyway. Hope there's something helpful in there for ya.

[Cogwheel]

Well Gid, I "slogged" through the whole thing, as you put it, and... well, I'm completely amazed. honestly, I would be much happier with G6 as 4th ed, though once in a while I'll obviously want to run high-level games too.

Now, I agree that the magic system is going to be a tough one, but in any case, the per encounter system is a good way to go about it. Making different classes and handling each spell as a class feature (someone back there mentioned magic missile at will for the evoker class and such) works quite nicely, as does the feat system. Feats, however, will allow you to be something other than a caster (say, a rogue or a barbarian/defender), albeit a lower quality one since you're not devoting feats to it, and a full caster. Just something to consider before you start getting Barbazards running around the place >_>

Other than that, a few problems.. First off, the Spirited Charge class feature is already in use as an identical feat.. not sure if that was intentional, or if G6 will see a modified version of this, just saying. Second, Powerful Charge II's save DC should probably be based on character level. Class level would make it inferior for PrC users, and besides.. what class?


Incidentally, once this is finished, I'll be running a variant on tomb of horrors using G6. The variation being that everyone is level 0 >_>

[Lord_Gareth]

I figured it might be a PrC, but I didn't know if you wanted to make it a feat instead or not ^_^

I made a crapload of feats yesterday. They're ALIIIIIVE!

Opportunist
Prerequisites: None
Stage I:m You gain an additional number of attacks of opportunity per round equal to your dexterity modifier. You cannot use more than one attack of opportunity per provocation.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may make an attack of opportunity against one foe within reach that has just been struck in melee.
Stage III: Victims of your attacks of opportunity are considered flat-footed until the beginning of their next action.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may enter a zenlike state of combat reaction. For a number of rounds equal to your dexterity modifier, any melee attack against you provokes attacks of opportunity.

Iron Will
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Will saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may add your Wisdom modifier as an insight bonus to any single attack roll, skill check, saving throw, or ability check.
Stage III: You no longer fall unconcious when reduced below 0 hit points and may continue fighting without penalty until slain.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, when you would otherwise be slain, you may continue fighting without penalty or death for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier, after which you die.

Lightning Reflexes
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Reflex saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may make a single melee attack roll or strength or dexterity-based skill check as an immediate action. If your skill check causes you to move from your square in response to an attack, your attacker may select a new target within reach (your movement still provokes attacks of opportunity).
Stage III: You gain a +2 dodge bonus to armor class.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may make a full attack as an immediate action. Doing so is physically tiring, leaving you fatigued for the rest of the encounter.

Murderer
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You may make coup-de-grace attacks as a move action instead of a full-round action.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may strike a crippling blow that deals weapon damage plus two points of strength or dexterity damage to your victim. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this ability. You must declare that you are using this ability before you roll your attack, and a missed attack wastes the use.
Stage III: You may make coup-de-grace attacks against prone and stunned opponents (your coup-de-grace attemtps still provoke attacks of opportunity).
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may strike a vicious blow that deals weapon damage, plus an amount of strength and dexterity damage equal to your intelligence modifier. Creatures immune to critical hits are also immune to this ability. You must declare the use of this ability before you roll your attack, and a miss wastes the use.

Great Fortitude
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may roll a Fortitude save in place of a Reflex save. Additionally, you gain a +4 bonus on saves vs. disease.
Stage III: You gain immunity to poison.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you can enter a state where you feel no pain and shrug off even the fiercest of blows with ease. For a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier, you gain DR 5/- and immunity to physical ability score damage.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I made a crapload of feats yesterday. They're ALIIIIIVE!

Opportunist
Prerequisites: None
Stage I:m You gain an additional number of attacks of opportunity per round equal to your dexterity modifier. You cannot use more than one attack of opportunity per provocation.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may make an attack of opportunity against one foe within reach that has just been struck in melee.
Stage III: Victims of your attacks of opportunity are considered flat-footed until the beginning of their next action.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may enter a zenlike state of combat reaction. For a number of rounds equal to your dexterity modifier, any melee attack against you provokes attacks of opportunity.

Nice!


Iron Will
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Will saves. You gain immunity to fear effects. Additionally, you gain a +1 bonus to Will saves. Since it's only 6 levels, I'd like to avoid +2 boosts to saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may add your Wisdom modifier as an insight bonus to any single attack roll, skill check, saving throw, or ability check.
Stage III: You no longer fall unconcious when reduced below 0 hit points and may continue fighting without penalty until slain.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, when you would otherwise be slain, you may continue fighting without penalty or death for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier, after which you die. This ability is to close to the Stage III ability. We need something different...I'll have to think on this.

Lightning Reflexes
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Reflex saves. You gain a +1 Dodge bonus to Armor Class and a +4 Circumstance bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity. Additionally, you gain a +1 bonus to Reflex saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may make a single attack roll as an immediate action. Otherwise it had more uses than I'd like to see in a feat.
Stage III: You gain a +2 Dodge bonus to your Armor Class. You gain a +4 bonus to Initiative.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may take a full attack full round action as an immediate action. Doing so is physically tiring, leaving you fatigued for the rest of the encounter.

Murderer
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You may make coup-de-grace attacks as a move action instead of a full-round action.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may strike a crippling blow that deals weapon damage plus two points of strength or dexterity damage to your victim. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this ability. You must declare that you are using this ability before you roll your attack, and a missed attack wastes the use.
Stage III: You may make coup-de-grace attacks against prone and stunned opponents (your coup-de-grace attemtps still provoke attacks of opportunity). FAR to powerful, especially with all the abilities that knock things prone.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may strike a vicious blow that deals weapon damage, plus an amount of strength and dexterity damage equal to your intelligence modifier. Creatures immune to critical hits are also immune to this ability. You must declare the use of this ability before you roll your attack, and a miss wastes the use.

Great Fortitude
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. You gain 2 hp plus an additional 1 hp for every Hit Die you possess, both past and future. Additionally, you gain a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may roll a Fortitude save in place of a Reflex save.
Stage III: You gain immunity to poison. You may add your Constitution modifier to your Armor Class in place of your Dexterity modifier.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you can enter a state where you feel no pain and shrug off even the fiercest of blows with ease. For a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier, you gain DR 5/- and immunity to physical ability score damage. This seems REALLY powerful, but I'm not sure how to correct this. It needs to be toned down significantly...possibly duration?[/QUOTE]

All in all, nicely done!

More to come tonight.

[XiaoTie]

Good Lord, this is awesome :elan: . Wish my players liked this kind of gamestyle so I could DM a game using G6. Looking foward to see more stuff.

Just one minor nitpick. There is nothing wrong, it is, like I said, a nitpick that I hope it will help to contribute somehow with this awesome project.


The first step in creating a character is to generate your ability scores. Abilities in G6 are generated using a standard 28 point buy system, with one exception—no ability score can begin higher than a 16 (before applying racial modifiers).


In G6 the races have seen some significant changes, the most obvious being the removal of ability score bonus and penalties. The reason for this is to prevent the traditional stereotypes and min/maxing from influencing race selection.

Well, if there are no racial modifiers (Quote II), then there is no need for those brackets (Quote I) :smallbiggrin:


Increasing Ability Scores: Characters gain a +1 inherent bonus to a single ability score at 3rd level and at 5th level. No ability score may be brought above 18 in this manner.

It is impossible be brought above 18 at all, in this manner. Assume a character sets 16 for one of his abilities at the start of the game (which is the max you can go; see Quote I). With only two bonuses from those "Increasing Ability Scores" during the 6 levels, max he could get would be 18.

[Glawackus]

Your ideas, intrigued, newsletter, etc. Fire me a PM if you want people to playtest this at some point.

[RTGoodman]

This looks pretty awesome. None of my gaming groups would play it, but I love the idea. I've got a couple of questions and suggestions, though.

First, for the Base Classes, are you trying to stick closer to the 3.5 classes, or just try to keep the same fluff and do whatever mechanics work? I was thinking of writing up a Paladin for this, but I didn't know if I needed to throw in Remove Disease or anything like that. And really, if I were to do it, it'd probably be closer to the 4E version anyway, with some minor challenges and different types of Smites and stuff. What do you think?

For the Iron Will feat that Lord Gareth made and there's currently no good IV level ability for, what about basically just giving Iron Heart Surge once per encounter (but with clarified wording just to avoid any silly bickering). It seems along the same lines as the other abilities and would probably be a good "capstone" for the feat.

I'm in favor of doing something like 4E for the spell system. At 1st level of Spellcaster (or whatever), they gain access to, say, 3 minor at-will spells (magic missile, light, mage armor, etc.) and one bigger Encounter spell (sleep, color spray, etc.). At higher levels, they gain a couple new at-will spells and maybe 2 other Encounter spells (at 3rd and 5th levels). At 6th level, they gain a single more powerful Encounter spell, or maybe even one Daily spell. Feats can be used to gain additional uses of spells or to up the spells' usefulness - for instance, Spell Mastery (Fireball) will let you use your Fireball spell twice per encounter instead of just once, or Spell Focus (Fireball) makes it do 1 extra point of damage per die or something like that.

With that system, you can still use the standard School organization, and only have to come up with a couple of spells per school per level, and only one big Daily spell for each since no one would get more than one (except maybe an Archmage PrC that gains access to two or so at the expense of losing one school or something).

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Well, if there are no racial modifiers (Quote II), then there is no need for those brackets (Quote I) :smallbiggrin:

Ah! You have me there, you knave! A Great Wall of text, and you spot the mistake.

Sarcasm aside, thanks for pointing that out.


It is impossible be brought above 18 at all, in this manner. Assume a character sets 16 for one of his abilities at the start of the game (which is the max you can go; see Quote I). With only two bonuses from those "Increasing Ability Scores" during the 6 levels, max he could get would be 18.

Yeah...I forgot I changed the wording on the Paragon ability so the points couldn't be added to the same score. You can actually get up to a 19, if you really want to. I may add in another modifier so that achieving a 20 is possible.



First, for the Base Classes, are you trying to stick closer to the 3.5 classes, or just try to keep the same fluff and do whatever mechanics work? I was thinking of writing up a Paladin for this, but I didn't know if I needed to throw in Remove Disease or anything like that. And really, if I were to do it, it'd probably be closer to the 4E version anyway, with some minor challenges and different types of Smites and stuff. What do you think?

Similar fluff, but whatever abilities work. For example, the Paladin I was in the process of making recently (and it's a Prestige Class, although that could change) had the following.

Smite
Once per encounter, as a standard action, a paladin may attempt to smite an opponent with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 4 extra points of damage per paladin level. This additional damage is holy damage, and, as such, overcomes all damage reduction.

At 2nd level a paladin may make two smites per encounter.

Divine Grace
At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Lay on Hands
Beginning at 1st level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. She gains a pool of healing, which allows her to heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her character level × her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once.

Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature. The target may make a Will save (DC 10+Paladin Level+Cha) to negate the damage.

Paragon (Spiritual Warrior)
At 6th level, a paladin becomes blessed by her deity, gaining a number of benefits. She a +1 inherent ability bonus to any two ability scores. Additionally, she gains damage reduction 5/magic and deals an additional 2 points of damage with every attack. This additional damage is holy damage, and, as such, overcomes all damage reduction.



For the Iron Will feat that Lord Gareth made and there's currently no good IV level ability for, what about basically just giving Iron Heart Surge once per encounter (but with clarified wording just to avoid any silly bickering). It seems along the same lines as the other abilities and would probably be a good "capstone" for the feat.

That's not a bad idea. This will probably be added.

[tarkisflux]

Well, no one has picked at the magic-as-feat revision I tossed up, so I guess it falls to me. Yes, I've already thought better of it. Doing magic entirely in feats will either create very narrow magic classes, or classes so feat heavy that they have too many 1/enc abilities to worry about holding back :smallyuk:.

I think the main problem is that other classes have attack options that feats enhance; they're not dependant on the feats themselves to give them attack options. So what I tossed up earlier is probably a bad direction to go :smallfrown:

A better direction might be to give them a list of 'spells' (or disciplines, seeds, whatever) that they select from as they level, but can only have so many prepared at a given time (similar to the manuevers in ToB). These would be at-will abilities or 1/enc abilities that scaled with level somehow. Then magic feats would modify the base abilities, similar to how spontaneous metamagic does now. That seperates their attack options from their feat choices, and gives them a bit more flexibility in what they bring to a fight.

I'll toss some suggestions for stuff in when I've got more time, but you could strip the at will part of Soul of Fire out as a Lvl 1 spell pretty easily, and turn the rest into a feat that you could apply to any energy damage based attack. Any mage could get fire damage, but fewer of them would be able to make it an AoE.

[Sho]

This topic alone gave me reason to join this board, too.

With the majority of the works being posted here, this is where I decided to also post my ideas, if and when I should have any.

I have my little custom Base Classes and Prestige Classes, but those are fanfare. I have to say that using this variant system allows for a much easier time in class preparation, and it's also easier to make balanced classes.

I have to applaud you, Djinn (Gideon), and everyone else that has contributed to this idea, thus far.

[Uncle Festy]

Playtesting

Ooh! Ooh! That's me!
Playtesting please.
This looks really awesome. I got the same 'wow' feeling from each of the 6-level classes that I got from reading through a 20-level class in a sourcebook. I feel a desperate urge to playtest... :smallbiggrin:

[Sho]

Ooh! Ooh! That's me!
Playtesting please.
This looks really awesome. I got the same 'wow' feeling from each of the 6-level classes that I got from reading through a 20-level class in a sourcebook. I feel a desperate urge to playtest... :smallbiggrin:
I'm with HIM.

Oh, a simple idea to use for the placing of another bonus +1 to any attribute? Considering that characters still get a +1 at level 4 and then two +1s due to their Paragon Class Ability, I would say level 2 would be a nice juicy sweet spot.

On the other hand, you could move the first two +1s to the character's first and third levels.

[Lady Tialait]

The Mage
Hit Points: 5

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: N/A
Feats: Magical Aptitude
Skills: Spellcraft 6, Knowledge (Arcane) 4

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

The Mage
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+1| Mark of the Mystic, Arcane Blast 1/encounter

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2| Arcane Touch, Bonus Feat

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+2| Paragon (ArchMagi), Arcane Blast 2/encounter[/table]


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: No new Weapon or Armor proficiency.

Mark of the Mystic: At 1st level, a Mage gains a mark of some type. It may be a newly appearing birthmark, a mystical animal that follows the Mage around, or perhaps even a new glowing of the eyes. This effect gives the Mage +3 on a skill check chosen when this ability is gained. In addition, this allows the Mage to send out a magical 'eye' it has no real physical form but allows the Mage upto 100ft. in any direction, as long as the Mage has been there before.

Arcane Touch: At 2nd level, a Mage gains the ability see magical auras tis ability acts like detect magic. In addition if a magical item is held by the Mage for 10 minutes they may identify it as per the identify spell. This is usable at will.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, the Mage gains a bonus feat form the following list (the list will be the Arcane like Feats)

Arcane Blast: At 1st level, the Mage gains a blast of Mystical energy, this Arcane Blast Deals 1D6 per Mage level of the user plus 1 per point of intelligence Modifier. This damage is either Cold, Fire, Electric, Acid, or Sonic chosen when using this ability, this ability is usable 1/encounter at level 1 but may be used 2/encounter at 3rd level.

Paragon (ArchMagi): At third level a character gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. In addition, the Mage can use two different types of energy or no energy type at all in their Arcane Blast.



I may have messed it up badly, but I kinda like this style of mage for the system.

[Cogwheel]

Yes. Playtesting.. definitely. I'd offer some sort of actual input, but you know me.. too inept to come up with anything >_>

[Lady Tialait]

Magical Aptitude
Prerequisites:
I: You may treat spellcraft, knowledge (arcana), and Use Magical Device as class skills.

II: You may 1/encounter gain spell resistance 15+class levels, this may be used as an immediate action, and lasts till the beginning of your next turn.

III: You can create a scroll of any spell. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level × its caster level × 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price.

Any scroll that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when scribing the scroll.

You may scribe scrolls of spells with a spell level up to 3rd, but you must make a spellcraft check DC equal to 15 + spell level + caster level. Example: if you wish to scribe a scroll of fireball with caster level of 6 you must make a DC 24. You may only scribe scrolls with a caster level equal or less then your current level. This is giving me trouble, the current system says no XP, so I need some help, I want them to be able to produce some kinda wizardy thing. And scrolls just fit the genre I see using this G6. some suggestions?

IV: You may 1/encounter produce a burst of pure destructive power, dealing 6D8 damage to anyone within 30ft. This effect can disregard 1 person per class level, but if you do not choose yourself, you will be hit with it also. Anyone caught is entitled a Reflex save (DC 10+class levels+Highest Mental Ability) to half the damage.

This is my Magical Aptitude, Atleast how I see it. I'm working on more Arcane feats as I type this. But I would like some input on what i've done.

EDIT: I'm adding a feat I thought of...I think i might have the power level wrong tho.

True Beliver
Prerequisites:
I: You gain profencinacy in the favored weapon of your Deity or Cause. If you are already profenciant, you gain +1 to hit and Damage with your Deity or cause favored weapon.

II: 1/encounter you may reroll a missed check, this reroll must be announced before the results of the roll are announced, and you must take the new results even if they are worse then the original one.

III: You may as a fullround action, perfrom a smite attack, adding your cha modifer to hit, but no bonus to damage.

IV: 1/encounter you may heal hit points to yourself, or anyone else within 60ft. This effect heals damage equal to your class levels plus your cha mod. A single person cannot receive more healing from this ability then half your full hit points. Useing this ability is an immediate action.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

:smallbiggrin: Positive feedback!


On Magic: While I love what I've seen so far, I'd like to place a moratorium on creating spells/magic using classes for the time being. I'm still not entirely sure how to handle it, as I'd like to fit it within the class design already present (meaning feats may be the way to do it). While I'll admit it isn't the most graceful solution it is simple and easy to do.

With regards to a Mage holding back: They shouldn't. Each encounter should be an excuse to use their abilities, hence why their abilities will be balanced against other options of other classes. A Mage with the feat system will have between 6 and 10 per encounter abilities, many of which will probably see use in a given encounter.

on True Believer: Looks like a pretty good feat, although I'd like to see a new Stage I ability (to avoid stacking it with Weapon Focus for a much higher attack).

On my slow response/Update time: I just started a new job that's eating my soul. Whenever I get a chance I'll look over this completely, post updates, and plan a playtest, but there are no promises on my personal timeline at the moment. Apologies to all.

On an idea that may be good or may suck: Given that the fighter (and possibly the Mage) getting feats at every odd level, they will have many more per encounter abilities. To balance that, would you, as a community, prefer to see all the classes getting multiple options for levels 1, 3, and 5 represented by a variety of feats (1 at level 1, 1 at level 3, and 1 at level 5)? For example: Marshals would get things that duplicate Minor auras and provide group tactical benefit, Barbarians would get Rage variants and totem-esque abilities, Scouts might specialize in Tracking, hunting (favored enemy), or archery, and Rogues might become skilled experts, assassins, or combat flankers.

[Pronounceable]

How do you WANT magic? Billions of different abilities like standard DnD, few magic abilities that scale well, rare, common, item dependant, deterministic, chaotic, bla bla bla... List can be extended.


On to more abilities: I'd prefer it to be KISS. Not everything requires a special crunchety treatment. Though people seem to think more options=good in each and every case, so I'll probably be be outvoted here.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

My view leans towards a few magical abilities rather than an extensive list, to minimize the Batman effect. I think the feat system might work quite well. But I'd like input on a System, rather than classes and feats that work with something not yet finalized. Currently I'm thinking the feats are the way to go, but I'm open to other interpretations.

Magic is inherent...it's in the character, not item based. There also shouldn't be a flood of abilities for any single character, but rather enough options to create what you want and have it be different from every other caster in existence.

[ErrantX]

To expand on my earlier comment above, what I was trying to suggest was a class with some variable abilities that determines what you get for magic.

For example: Divine casters can pull a few different 'feats' to determine what they can do for their abilities. Say we have a War feat, a Healing feat, a Holy feat, a Divination feat, and a Nature feat. To build a woodland seer / druid type, he'd pick Nature, Divination and maybe Healing. Nature would get all 1-6 powers, Divination would get 1-4, and Healing (being tertiary) would get 1-3. He'd get powers to summon animals, assume an animal shape, some plant magic and such as a primary focus, his secondary focus would be divination so he could scry on someone, detect when he was being scryed on, and maybe identify items. Healing being last, he'd get a small smattering of healing abilities. Where as a War Priest might pick War, Healing and Holy to get troop rallying and buffing abilities, healing spells and the ability to turn undead or have a holy protective aura.

An arcane caster might have just the basic schools as feats, and each one gives a suite of abilities and you pick 3 that grant several powers based on which is more focused.

-X

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Definitely something to consider.

Here's the question though...we have six levels. How would those abilities be dispersed? Obviously one is on a level by level basis, but do you select the others at level 1 or later along the path?

With a six level spell system I could see the following:

1-6: Primary spell set
1, 3, 5: Secondary Spell Set
2, 4, 6: Tertiary Spell Set

Alternatively, a 4 step spell set

1, 2, 4, 6: Primary
1, 3, 5: Secondary
2, 5: Tertiary

Or a 3 step spell set

1, 3, 5: Primary
3, 5: Secondary
5: Tertiary

[ErrantX]

I would say a 4 step progression so each primary spell/ability set would have a paragon ability at 6th, and you wouldn't get the other paragon abilities.

-X

[tarkisflux]

I'd love to toss suggestions in here, but I don't quite get what you mean by primary, secondary, and tertiary spell sets. Without knowing what sort of power level you're looking at, I can't really comment on them specifically.

The only thing I can say is that anything with major at-will powers at levels 2 and 4 feels wrong. Your generic class setup has primary class abilities at odd levels, encounter abilities and minor stuff at 2 and 4, with some really nice paragon ability to cap it all at 6. I think you'd be well off to stick with that sort of progression whatever you decide. Otherwise, magic uses will wind up a level ahead of or behind every other class in abilities, and I don't think they can afford that in a 6 level game.

[Sho]

Definitely something to consider.

Here's the question though...we have six levels. How would those abilities be dispersed? Obviously one is on a level by level basis, but do you select the others at level 1 or later along the path?

With a six level spell system I could see the following:

1-6: Primary spell set
1, 3, 5: Secondary Spell Set
2, 4, 6: Tertiary Spell Set

Alternatively, a 4 step spell set

1, 2, 4, 6: Primary
1, 3, 5: Secondary
2, 5: Tertiary

Or a 3 step spell set

1, 3, 5: Primary
3, 5: Secondary
5: Tertiary
I would say a 4 step progression so each primary spell/ability set would have a paragon ability at 6th, and you wouldn't get the other paragon abilities.

-X
This method would work well, too, with the original base classes which gained spellcasting in unison with melee-type abilities.

Primary spellcasters would obviously gain access to all three sets of spells, and secondary spellcasters would only gain secondary spellcasting.

For example, the Paladin or Ranger. Within the 3.5e system, they gained 1st through 4th levels by progression starting at 4th level, but with this system, they could have a class feature at first level called "Secondary Spellcasting" while any other casting class would have "Spellcasting". Secondary Spellcasting would only afford classes the Secondary and Tertiary spell abilities, not the Primary. As such, secondary spellcasting classes probably should only get 1 class ability on 3rd and 5th levels.

What spellcasting types available to that class to be chosen could then be listed in the same description of their spellcasting class feature.

Also, obviously, since they are not pure spellcasting classes, just as ErrantX stated, they would be afforded no Paragon ability per their spellcasting.


The Ranger
Hit Points: 7

Skill Points at each level: 6 + Int Modifier

Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Class Features
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Animal Companion, Wild Empathy, (Secondary Spellcasting, Secondary Spell)
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Track, Ambition 1/encounter, (Tertiary Spell)
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Endurance, (Secondary Spell)
4th +4/+1 +4 +4 +1 Swift Tracker, Ambition 2/encounter
5th +5/+2 +4 +4 +1 Camouflage, (Secondary, Tertiary Spells)
6th +6/+3 +5 +5 +2 Paragon (?), Ambition 3/encounter
This reinterpretation is based on the Ranger originally posted by Ecureuil_Diabolique on the d20 Wizards board.

I also believe that rather than basing number of attacks on segments of 5-BAB, this variant (since it uses 6 levels) may wish to use number of attacks based on 3-BAB segments.

It grants an extra attack that one would not have to wait until "endgame" to acquire, and it gives full melee classes and moderate melee classes more means at such a time. Classes such as Marshal, Rogue, and possibly in the future Cleric and Druid, would never even get their extra attack... unless this change is made.

[Lady Tialait]

If anyone can take a feat for the magical ability, they will but this gives the game alot of gish, alot alot of gish. But, as long as you make all feats equally helpful, only someone who has a concept will be using the magical feats.

Off the note of magic here is a feat:

Toughness
Prerequisites: B.A.B. +1
Stage I: You gain 1 addition hit point per level.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may gain DR/- equal to your con modifier. This DR lasts for 1 round.
Stage III: You gain +3 on constitution checks. In addition, you may continue fighting even if your hit points drop below -1, but at -10 you still die.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may gain temporary Hit points equal to your constitution score, these hit points last till the end of combat.

What do you think?

[Realms of Chaos]

How does something like this appeal for a wizard?

The Wizard
Hit Points: 4

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-1: The Wizard
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2| Familiar, Arcane Caster (0, 1)

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3| Arcane Tricks, Arcane Shield 1/encounter

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3| Arcane Blast, Arcane Caster (2)

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Improved Arcane Tricks, Arcane Shield 2/encounter

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4| Thoughtful Substitution, Arcane Caster (3)

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5| Paragon (Split-Second Caster), Arcane Shield 3/encounter[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All Wizards are proficient with all simple weapons, but with no armor or shields.

Familiar: At 1st level, a Wizard can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 horus and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.
If a familiar is slain, it may not be replaced for a year and day. A character with more than one class granting a familiar can only have one at a time.

Arcane Caster: At 1st level, a Wizard learns how to cast a number of spells, each day, the wizard may prepare a number of 0 and 1st level spells equal to 3 + Intelligence modifier from their spellbook. Each prepared spell may be cast once per encounter as an arcane spell.
To cast a spell, the Wizard must have Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Wizard’s Intelligence modifier.
Each day, a Wizard must rest for at least eight hours and spend one hour studying their spellbook in order to select or reselect their spells for the day.

Starting at 3rd level, a Wizard may select 2nd level spells. At 5th level, a Wizard may select 3rd level spells.

Arcane Tricks: Starting at 2nd level, whenever a Wizard prepares their spells, they may select a single cantrip from their spellbook. Until the wizard next prepares their spells, they may use that spell at will. Even if they forget to study their spellbook and lose access to all other spells, they may still use this spell.

Starting at 4th level, the Wizard may instead select a number of cantrips equal to their intelligence modifier.

Arcane Shield: Starting at 2nd level, a Wizard may use their magic to absorb some of the shock behind an attack. Once per encounter, as an immediate action, whenever the Wizard would take damage from any source, they may give up the ability to cast spells for 1 round in order to reduce that damage by 5 x highest spell level available.

At 4th level, the Wizard may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level, the Wizard may use this ability three times per encounter.

Arcane Blast: Starting at 3rd level, a Wizard may direct their magic towards offense, allowing them to attack foes without worry of running out of options. As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the Wizard may make a ranged touch attack against a foe within 60 feet. If the attack is successful, the target takes 1d4 damage/level. This ability may only be used on days in which the Wizard prepares spells.

Thoughtful Substitution: Starting at 5th level, a Wizard may substitute spells from their spellbook for those they have prepared with a moment’s notice. Once per encounter, a Wizard may replace a prepared spell with another spell of a lower spell level. Doing so requires the Wizard’s spellbook and a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Paragon (Split-Second Caster): At 6th level, a Wizard becomes an unrivaled sage of arcane lore. They gain a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of their choice. Additionally, the Wizard may cast 0 and 1st level spells as swift actions.

Spellbook: A Wizard must study their spellbook each day to prepare their spells. They cannot prepare any spell not recorded in the spellbook, except for read magic, which all Wizards can prepare from memory.
A Wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells plus five 1st-level spells of their choice. At each new Wizard level, they gain four additional spells of any spell level or levels that they can cast for their spellbook.
The method of scribing is unique to each Wizard, preventing them from copying spells from each other’s spellbooks or scrolls.

Familiars:
Familiars are magically linked to their masters. In some sense, the familiar and mastr are practically the same being. A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a wizard or sorcerer. Choices of familiar include bat, cat, hawk, lizard, owl, rat, raven, snake (tiny viper), toad, and weasel.
As long as a familiar and its master are within 1 mile of each other, the master gains a +2 bonus on one class skill of their choice, selected at the time of summoning.
Familiar Basics:
Hit Dice: for all purposes, use master's hit dice or familiar's normal HD, whatever is higher
Hit Points: the familiar has one-half the master's total hit points, rounded down.
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus and the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is higher, to get familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons. Damage is normal for creature of familiar's kind.
Saving throws: use Master's or Familiar's save bonus, whichever is better. uses own ability modifiers.
Skills: for each skill in which either has ranks, use the nromal ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever are better. familiar uses own ability modifiers.

Familiar
{table=head]Master Class Level|Natural Armor Adj.|Int|Special

1st-2nd|
+1|
6|
Alertness, improved evasion, share spells, empathic link

3rd-4th|
+2|
7|
Deliver touch spells, speak with master

5th-6th|
+3|
8|
Speak with animals of its own kind, Spell resistance[/table]

Familiar Ability Descriptions:

Natural Armor Adj: improvement to existing natural armor bonus.
Int: familiar's Intelligence score.
Alertness: while within 5 feet of the master, the master gains a +2 bonus on spot and listen checks.
Improved Evasion: when subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a familiar takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if ithe saving throw fails.
Share spells: at the master's option, they may have any spell cast upon himself also affect his familiar. As long as the familiar is within 5 feet of the master (even if they leave and come back), they also benefit from the spell.
Empathic link: the master and familiar share an empathic link out to a distance of up to 1 mile. only general emotional content can be communicated.
Deliver Touch Spells: If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. if familiar and master are in contact when master casts touch spell, he can designate familiar as the "toucher".
Speak with Master: If the master is of 3rd level or higher, the familiar and master can communicate verbally as if using common language.
Speak with animals of its kind: If the master is of 5th level or higher, a familiar can communicate with animals of approximately the same kind as itself.
Spell Resistance: If the master is of 5th level or higher, the familiar gains spell resistance equal to the master's level + 5.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Toughness
Prerequisites: B.A.B. +1
Stage I: You gain 1 addition hit point per level.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may gain DR/- equal to your con modifier. This DR lasts for 1 round.
Stage III: You gain +3 on constitution checks. In addition, you may continue fighting even if your hit points drop below -1, but at -10 you still die.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may gain temporary Hit points equal to your constitution score, these hit points last till the end of combat.

What do you think?

This was actually incorporated into Great Fortitude, which now grants extra HP at the first stage. I felt the two could be similar enough that this wouldn't be an issue.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

How does something like this appeal for a wizard?

The Wizard
Hit Points: 4

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-1: The Wizard
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2| Familiar, Arcane Caster (0, 1)

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3| Arcane Tricks, Arcane Shield 1/encounter

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3| Arcane Blast, Arcane Caster (2)

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Improved Arcane Tricks, Arcane Shield 2/encounter

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4| Thoughtful Substitution, Arcane Caster (3)

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5| Paragon (Split-Second Caster), Arcane Shield 3/encounter[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All Wizards are proficient with all simple weapons, but with no armor or shields.

Familiar: At 1st level, a Wizard can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 horus and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.
If a familiar is slain, it may not be replaced for a year and day. A character with more than one class granting a familiar can only have one at a time.

Arcane Caster: At 1st level, a Wizard learns how to cast a number of spells, each day, the wizard may prepare a number of 0 and 1st level spells equal to 3 + Intelligence modifier from their spellbook. Each prepared spell may be cast once per encounter as an arcane spell.
To cast a spell, the Wizard must have Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Wizard’s Intelligence modifier.
Each day, a Wizard must rest for at least eight hours and spend one hour studying their spellbook in order to select or reselect their spells for the day.

Starting at 3rd level, a Wizard may select 2nd level spells. At 5th level, a Wizard may select 3rd level spells.

Arcane Tricks: Starting at 2nd level, whenever a Wizard prepares their spells, they may select a single cantrip from their spellbook. Until the wizard next prepares their spells, they may use that spell at will. Even if they forget to study their spellbook and lose access to all other spells, they may still use this spell.

Starting at 4th level, the Wizard may instead select a number of cantrips equal to their intelligence modifier.

Arcane Shield: Starting at 2nd level, a Wizard may use their magic to absorb some of the shock behind an attack. Once per encounter, as an immediate action, whenever the Wizard would take damage from any source, they may give up the ability to cast spells for 1 round in order to reduce that damage by 5 x highest spell level available.

At 4th level, the Wizard may use this ability twice per encounter. At 6th level, the Wizard may use this ability three times per encounter.

Arcane Blast: Starting at 3rd level, a Wizard may direct their magic towards offense, allowing them to attack foes without worry of running out of options. As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the Wizard may make a ranged touch attack against a foe within 60 feet. If the attack is successful, the target takes 1d4 damage/level. This ability may only be used on days in which the Wizard prepares spells.

Thoughtful Substitution: Starting at 5th level, a Wizard may substitute spells from their spellbook for those they have prepared with a moment’s notice. Once per encounter, a Wizard may replace a prepared spell with another spell of a lower spell level. Doing so requires the Wizard’s spellbook and a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Paragon (Split-Second Caster): At 6th level, a Wizard becomes an unrivaled sage of arcane lore. They gain a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of their choice. Additionally, the Wizard may cast 0 and 1st level spells as swift actions.

Spellbook: A Wizard must study their spellbook each day to prepare their spells. They cannot prepare any spell not recorded in the spellbook, except for read magic, which all Wizards can prepare from memory.
A Wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells plus five 1st-level spells of their choice. At each new Wizard level, they gain four additional spells of any spell level or levels that they can cast for their spellbook.
The method of scribing is unique to each Wizard, preventing them from copying spells from each other’s spellbooks or scrolls.

Familiars:
Familiars are magically linked to their masters. In some sense, the familiar and mastr are practically the same being. A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a wizard or sorcerer. Choices of familiar include bat, cat, hawk, lizard, owl, rat, raven, snake (tiny viper), toad, and weasel.
As long as a familiar and its master are within 1 mile of each other, the master gains a +2 bonus on one class skill of their choice, selected at the time of summoning.
Familiar Basics:
Hit Dice: for all purposes, use master's hit dice or familiar's normal HD, whatever is higher
Hit Points: the familiar has one-half the master's total hit points, rounded down.
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus and the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is higher, to get familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons. Damage is normal for creature of familiar's kind.
Saving throws: use Master's or Familiar's save bonus, whichever is better. uses own ability modifiers.
Skills: for each skill in which either has ranks, use the nromal ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever are better. familiar uses own ability modifiers.

Familiar
{table=head]Master Class Level|Natural Armor Adj.|Int|Special

1st-2nd|
+1|
6|
Alertness, improved evasion, share spells, empathic link

3rd-4th|
+2|
7|
Deliver touch spells, speak with master

5th-6th|
+3|
8|
Speak with animals of its own kind, Spell resistance[/table]

Familiar Ability Descriptions:

Natural Armor Adj: improvement to existing natural armor bonus.
Int: familiar's Intelligence score.
Alertness: while within 5 feet of the master, the master gains a +2 bonus on spot and listen checks.
Improved Evasion: when subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a familiar takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if ithe saving throw fails.
Share spells: at the master's option, they may have any spell cast upon himself also affect his familiar. As long as the familiar is within 5 feet of the master (even if they leave and come back), they also benefit from the spell.
Empathic link: the master and familiar share an empathic link out to a distance of up to 1 mile. only general emotional content can be communicated.
Deliver Touch Spells: If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. if familiar and master are in contact when master casts touch spell, he can designate familiar as the "toucher".
Speak with Master: If the master is of 3rd level or higher, the familiar and master can communicate verbally as if using common language.
Speak with animals of its kind: If the master is of 5th level or higher, a familiar can communicate with animals of approximately the same kind as itself.
Spell Resistance: If the master is of 5th level or higher, the familiar gains spell resistance equal to the master's level + 5.

While definitely interesting, I'm trying to get away from the 3E spells, as many of them were unbalanced. This also gets far more spells than I'd like to see.


Based upon what I've received so far, spells will progress as follows:

Caster Level
1: Primary 1, Secondary 1
2: Primary 2, Tertiary 1
3: Secondary 2
4: Primary 3
5: Secondary 3, Tertiary 2
6: Primary (Paragon)

How this interacts with abilities and X/encounter abilities remains to be seen.

[Lady Tialait]

Meh, you win some you loose some...

I haven't thought of another 1st stage ability for true believer. But, i'm thinking.

As for that wizard, it stinks of batmanery. If we are trying to get away from that anything that can go batman will have to be looked at like most people look at a witch.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Okay. This may seem really strange, but it's been running through my head and I wanted some opinions.

Here's a new class design layout that might solve all the caster problems and allow for greater flexibility in all the base classes, while still reserving a space for prestige classes (before you ask, yes, I know how they would work, and how multi-classing would work). Tell me what you think, won't you?


Table 1-1 Class Feature Layout 3.0
{table=head]Level|Class Feature|Primary Path|Secondary Path|Primary Encounter Power|Secondary Encounter Power

1st|Class Feature|Primary Path Feature I| Secondary Path Feature I| Primary Encounter Power 3/encounter

2nd| Class Feature |Primary Path Ability II| ||Secondary Encounter Power 1/encounter

3rd| Class Feature||Secondary Path Ability II| Primary Encounter Power 3/encounter

4th|Class Feature|Primary Path Feature III||| Secondary Encounter Power 2/encounter

5th|Class Feature||Secondary Path Feature III| Primary Encounter Power 3/encounter

6th|Paragon Feature|Paragon Ability (Primary Path IV)||| Secondary Encounter Power 3/encounter [/table]


Now for some example Paths and Encounter Abilities, using the Barbarian as an example. The Barbarian's class abilities (standard...all Barbarians have these) are Rage, Uncanny Dodge, Damage Reduction, and Undying Frenzy. Also note that these aren't the only paths that will be available...I envision every class as having at least five options for paths and about the same number for encounter abilities.

Paths:
Mad Foam Rager:
I—When you Rage, any opponent you strike must make a Will save or be Shaken for the duration of the encounter. The save DC is Charisma based. A successful save renders them immune your frightful presence for 24 hours.
II—Once per encounter, as a swift action, you may unleash a terrifying roar. All opponents within 30ft must make a Will save or be Shaken for 1d4 rounds. If they are already shaken, they become Frightened for 1d4 rounds instead. The save DC is Charisma based.
III—Whenever you score a critical hit against a foe, all opponents within 30ft must make a Will save or be Shaken for the duration of the encounter. If they are already Shaken, they become Frightened for 1d4 rounds instead.
IV—Once per encounter, when you successfully make an attack roll against an opponent who has failed his or her save against your frightful presence, you may take a swift action to voice a horrible cry that stops your foe’s very heart. He or she must make a Will save or be rendered helpless for 1d4 rounds. The save DC is Charisma based.

Swift Hunter:
I—Your base land speed increases by +10ft. Additionally, you gain a +1 bonus to Reflex saves.
II— Once per encounter, as a swift action, you may move up to your base land speed and make a single attack. Add your Initiative modifier to damage with this attack.
III—You suffer no movement penalties for moving through difficult terrain. Additionally, you gain a +2 bonus on Initiative checks.
IV— Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may move up to your base land speed and make a full attack. Add your Initiative modifier to all damage dealt in this fashion.

Encounter Abilities:
Awesome Blow: Standard Action—Make a single melee attack. If this attack lands, you deal normal weapon damage and knock your opponent 5ft in any direction. They fall prone at the end of this attack.
Stunning Blow: Standard Action—Make a single melee attack. If this attack lands, you deal normal weapon damage and your opponent may only take a standard action on his next turn.
Adrenaline Surge: Swift Action—You gain a +6 bonus to Strength. This effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
Ignore Pain: Immediate Action—You gain Damage Reduction 5/- (or your existing Damage Reduction increases by 5). This effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
Battle Cry: Swift Action—You and all allies within 30ft gain a +2 moral bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls for 1 round.

These are all rough drafts, but you get the general idea. Each path has two passive abilities and two active abilities, one of which is a powerful Paragon ability. Paragon Class features are passive, Paragon Path Abilities are 1/encounter active abilities, of which you'll only ever get 1. The secondary path reaches the second to last step, keeping you just short of a Paragon ability. Some of these paths are interchangeable...Scouts, for example, might possess the Swift Hunter tree.

Encounter abilities allow you two different options that you can use repeatedly. These are slightly more utilitarian (at the moment at least) and some powers might be found on multiple class lists. Battle Cry, for example, sounds like a good Marshal Power, while Stunning Blow might find its way to the Monk list.

It's sort of a cross between the current G6, 4e, and 3e. It allows casters to follow the exact same pattern as the others (their Paths and encounter abilities will duplicate spells, giving them one primary focus, one secondary focus, and two 3/encounter abilities) while keeping those other classes as full of options as a spellcaster would be.

Opinions? Trash it, fix it, or keep it? Better than the current set-up? More fun? Less fun? What are we looking at here?

[Sho]

I would say that this method is more complex, but it's still not too hard to pick up and go with it.

As far as class creation goes, it would take more time to create classes what with all the new features one could possibly have for said class, BUT it would be worth it. It's a very nice thing when everyone can benefit, casters AND melee.

Edit:
Oh, yes, my idea for spells would have had them as tree-like feats, too. I was just going to suggest that we use the descriptors or domains themselves as the name of the feats.

That way, someone could have a growing power in Healing, Law, Evil, Destruction, Protection, whatever.

[Lady Tialait]

Other then creating the classes, it sounds great! If you are willing to create the classes for the path tree thingy Then good for you. I more often then not create PrC for that sorta thing.


Edit: I also think the feat tree for casting could work, but with something like True believer working for the prerequisite for Divine magic, and Magical Aptitude for Arcane. Here is a few I just came up with out of the blue.


Faithful Protection
Prerequisites: True believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You can generate a protective ward as a supernatural ability. Grant someone you touch a resistance bonus equal to your class levels on his or her next saving throw. Activating this power is a standard action. The protective ward is constant, but you may only have 1 such ward up at any given time.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may take 1/2 the damage from an attack directed to an ally, this ability may be used as an immediate action.
Stage III: You are continuously protected by a supernatural shield. This shield grants an AC bonus equal to your casting stat's Modifier.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may create a shield made of pure faith, this shield does not allow anyone to target you with an attack or spell till your next turn. It takes a full round action to activate this shield.


Faithful Healing
Prerequisites: True believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: Your and any person who rests within 60ft. of you gains x2 the natural healing rate from a night's rest.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may heal a person you touch this ability heals 2D8+1+Class Level this ability can not heal one person more then 10 times your class level in one day (to a max of 60 points) in one day.
Stage III: You regain 1 hit point per hour. This ability may be passed with a 10 minuet ritual, but it cannot be transfered more then 2 times in a 24 hour period.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may restore all allies within 10ft. up to 1/2 their max. HP.


Faithful Destruction
Prerequisites: True believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You may use a full-round action to destroy nonmagical unattended objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain. All such objects within a 5-foot radius of the point of origin are smashed into dozens of pieces by this ability. Objects weighing more than 1 pound per your level are not affected, but all other objects of the appropriate composition are shattered.
Stage II: 1/encounter you gain the smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a +4 bonus on attack rolls and a bonus on damage rolls equal to your class level (if you hit). You must declare the smite before making the attack.
Stage III: When you strike at an object held or carried by an opponent (such as a weapon or shield), you do not provoke an attack of opportunity.You also gain a +4 bonus on any attack roll made to attack an object held or carried by another character.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may produce a beam of destruction, dealing 1D4 damage per class level. If this attack deals enough damage to kill the target. They are utterly destroyed. Leaving nothing but a pile of dust, and cannot be identified as the target. This ability deals twice as much damage to objects.

What do you think of these?

[Pronounceable]

I spend the time to write this, and there's a new potential level structure. Whatever, here's my jab at magic:


The magic user class has 4 HP, poor BAB, good will, poor fort/ref. They are proficient with no weapons or armor. They get 4+int skill points per level. They can get a single base magic feat at 1st level. MUs get additional magic feats at 3 and 5 (or 4 and 6). There are also non base magic feats. They (unlike normal feats) don't have stages. Instead they improve base feats. At higher levels, MUs can either get new base feats, or specialize. Their only class ability is to treat all magic related skills as class skills.

Base magic feats: Only MUs can have these feats.


Abjuration
I: The abjurer can magically protect himself with a magic field. The protection grants him +4 to AC. He can suppress and reactivate it as a free action.
II: Once per encounter, the abjurer can shield anyone with a powerful protection as a swift action. The protection grants DR 7/magic and lasts 3+int mod rounds. Alternately, the abjurer can keep the shield up if he stands still and takes no action but holding the shield.
III: The abjurer can alter the magical properties of a large area (up to a radius of 50 feet per level). He may opt to dampen a certain type magic (10+level+int mod SR vs all abilities from a base magic feat) or strengthen a certain type of magic (increase DCs/bigger damage die/increase bonus by half...). The area of effect is spherical, and applies to abjurer as well as other MUs. Creating such an area is a draining process that takes four hours which fatigues the abjurer. Only one such area may be maintained, it instantly dissipates if abjurer starts creating another area or is incapacitated.
IV: Once per encounter, the abjurer can ward himself against extreme hostility. He gains +8 AC, +2 all saves, DR 15/-, immunity to mind effecting spells and his wards reflect melee damage upon his attackers. The effect lasts 2+int mod rounds.

Conjuration
I: The conjurer can summon summon a sapient, tiny sized outsider animal (such as reptiles, ferrets or birds) at will as a full round action. Such animals will not endanger themselves on behalf of the caster (no combat application), but are otherwise willing to serve as servitors, helpers, scouts or spies. Only one may be present at a time. Outsider animals can be kept on Prime for many hours. Conjurer can dismiss the creature as a free action.
II: Once per encounter, the conjurer can summon an outsider (as Summon Monster II) to fight for him as a full round action. The summon will vanish if its HP is depleted or within a few minutes. If used out of combat, the summon can perform some other task if doesn't think it's too demeaning.
III: The conjurer can permenantly bind an outsider (about as powerful as him, but not equal) to himself. The outsider acts as a servant and advisor, and will fight on conjurer's behalf. It's effectively a cohort NPC. If it's reduced to 0 HP, it's banished and can't be summoned again for many years.
IV: Once per encounter, the conjurer can summon a powerful outsider to aid him in combat. Such outsiders will expect a price. The outsider will resent having to perform for free, but will do so if no reward is offered. However, this will gain their enmity and they won't fight to the best of their abilities.

Divination
I: The diviner can see all magical auras and understand all written and spoken languages. (note that a diviner automatically detects though not necessarily sees through all illusions)
II: Once per encounter, the diviner can see into immediate future to achieve one of the following as a swift action: increase AC by 20 for a round, get +20 to hit for a single attack, increase initiative by 5 or maximize one damage die.
III: The diviner can enter a trance and extend his sight OR hearing out of his body at will. His extended sense travels at a speed of 240, can pass ordinary barriers and can stay out of him indefinitely. Diviner must sit or lie without doing anything else during his trance. He can still perceive his surroundings but any movement or action instantly ends the trance.
IV: Once per encounter, the diviner can maximize all dice he rolls for 3 rounds.

Enchantment
I: The enchanter has increased presence for all who can perceive him. He gains either +4 to any one of bluff, diplomacy, gather info, intimidate or perform skills; or a +4 to charisma as a free action. The effect is nullified if he's incapatitated.
II: Once per encounter, the enchanter can charm an opponent (will save negates) as a standard action.
III: The enchanter can hypnotize others with a glance (will save negates and grants immunity for a day). Hypnotized people will do as commanded to the best of their abilities, though the effect instantly wears off if they are wounded (HP reduced less than half).
IV: Once per encounter, the enchanter can dominate an opponent (will save negates). Dominated people are fully under the enchanter's control but will get additional saves every time they take damage or are forced to act against their interests. The effect will wear out in a few hours.

Evocation
I: The evoker can create a magic missile at will as a standard action.
II: Once per encounter, the evoker can create a fireball that does 5d6 damage as a full round action.
III: The evoker's control over magic allows him to choose what sort of damage his attacks do (magic, fire, cold, electricity, acid, sonic, physical).
IV: Once per encounter, the evoker can blast an area into oblivion. Everything within a 20 foot radius sphere of target point (including the ground) will take 10d6 damage (ignores all DR). Any unattended item or creature reduced to 0 HP is disintegrated.

Illusion
I: The illusionist can magically disguise himself as a free action. He may change his clothes, face, voice, height, weight, gender and race as long as his size category doesn't change. The change doesn't include smell or touch.
II: Once per encounter, the illusionist (and everything he holds) can become invisible. Invisibility can be maintained for quite a while, but anyone illusionist gets close (within a 5 foot step) can detect him with a spot check. Attacking doesn't cancel the ability, but will give a +10 spot bonus to defender.
III: The illusionist can create an illusionary creature of large or smaller size. It must be of something he has seen closely. The illusion is either controlled directly, or programmed at its creation to do specific things (go there, do that, come back). If programmed, it will perform as it was instructed with no heed to anything unless illusionist mentally changes its instructions. It can touch and be touched by living beings, but can't move objects. Any damage dispels it. Crafting an image takes an hour. More than one can be created but only one can be controlled at one time.
IV: Once per encounter, the illusionist can create up to 10 identical illusionary creatures (he must be familiar with the creatures). These creatures will fight on caster's behalf. Their attacks inflict real damage, but they have 1 HP. (he may, of course, create illusions of himself and run while enemies are busy)

Necromancy
I: The necromancer can drain living beings' life. As a full round action, he can deal 1d6 damage to any living being up to 80 feet away and heal himself the same amount. His HP can't exceed the maximum.
II: Once per encounter, a necromancer can temporarily create a zombie or skeleton under his total control as a swift action, if a corpse is available. After some minutes, the undead reverts back to a corpse.
III: The necromancer can create undead (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, ghasts) from humanoid corpses. He can create as many as he likes, but can only control a number of them equal to his level. Ghouls and ghasts aren't mindless and hate their creator. Every time he creates an undead that exceeds his number of control, randomly one of the others go free. Skeletons and zombies usually wander off while ghouls and ghasts usually turn on their creator.
IV: Once per encounter, a necromancer can completely drain the life of a living creature. As a full round action, he can deal 3d6 con damage (fort save for half, but it's still crippling) to any living being up to 80 feet away and completely heal himself (or any other living creature he touches). If a creature is killed in this manner, its soul is absorbed by the necromancer (or whatever creature caster healed with the stolen life force).

Transmutation
I: The transmuter can, at will, alter the body of any living creature (including himself) with a touch. He can increase/decrease a physical stat by 4 or increase one by 6 while decreasing another by 4 as a standard action. Unwilling targets need a touch attack and get a fort save to negate. Decreases can't bring an ability lower than 1. The effect lasts as long as transmuter wills. Unwilling targets get a fort save each round to end the effect.
II: Once per encounter, the transmuter can turn himself into a medium sized, normal animal that he's familiar with. He gains physical stats and speed of the animal. Transformation lasts about a few minutes, and transmuter must rest for half an hour between transformations.
III: The transmuter can increase his physical stats by a total of +8 points. At will, he can rearrange these bonus points as a full round action (he may opt not to have any bonus). He may also use stage I ability on top of this but they overlap, don't stack. This is a magical effect and is nullified if the transmuter is incapacitated. (note that an abjurer's area powers influence this)
IV: Once per encounter, the transmuter can turn any large or smaller sized creature into a little harmless animal (typically a toad). Victim gets fort saves to save himself only after 10 rounds.


How's this look for a crude example? I mainly went for flavor of magic schools rather than utility or balance. Though diviner sucks, I know. My opinion is; WTF is a diviner doing going around and fighting people anyway? But I had to conform to main feat structure, and nothing really divinatory per encounter came to mind. And advanced magic feats would stray out of main feat structure anyway, seeing they can only be taken later, so no need to muddy the waters further.

Alternately, as it occured to me before, each one can be a seperate class with these as class abilities. Then those advanced magic feats can be designed as normal feats that can only be taken by certain classes...
...


On to the new stuff up: It seems quite a lot of work to make all that stuff. I think the previous level scheme was adequate and easier to implement overall. Of course, if you make all that stuff, it'd be good.

[Yakk]

Good, except for two things. First off, it's a little weak compared to everything else. Secondly, it improves the static bonus at a Per Encounter stage. Maybe make it something like this:

Skill Focus
Prerequisites: Any two skills 1 rank
I: Choose two skill you have at least one rank in. You gain a +2 bonus to all checks with both of those skills.
II: Once per encounter, you may take 10 on a skill check involving one of the selected skills, even if under stress.
III: The bonus to your skill checks improves to +4.
IV: Once per encounter, you may reroll a skill check involving one of the selected skills and take the better of the two results.

or

IV: Once per encounter, you use a skill check with one of the selected skills in place of any other d20 roll, provided you can justify the use to the GM's satisfaction.

Natural Talent
Prerequisites: Any one skill 1 rank
I: Choose one skill. Whenever you roll a skill check against that skill, roll 2d20 and take the best roll.
II: Once per encounter, you can choose add 1/2 of the unused die to your skill roll (round down). You may choose to activate this power after your dice have rolled.
III: Your use of the skill is sped up. Skill checks that where swift actions can now be used twice from a single swift action. Skill checks that usually take a full a round or less are now swift actions. Skill checks that take 5 rounds or less are now Standard actions. Skill checks that usually take a minute or less are now Full Round actions. Longer skill checks are 10 times faster.
IV: Once per encounter, you can "take 30" at your skill.

I: Your mean roll is 13.825. That's not that large of a bonus. :)
However, you have only a 20% chance to roll under a 10.

II: Mean roll is 17.15.

[XiaoTie]

Abjuration
I: The abjurer can magically protect himself with a magic field. The protection grants him +4 to AC. He can suppress and reactivate it as a free action.
II: Once per encounter, the abjurer can shield anyone with a powerful protection as a swift action. The protection grants DR 7/magic and lasts 3+int mod rounds. Alternately, the abjurer can keep the shield up if he stands still and takes no action but holding the shield.
III: The abjurer can alter the magical properties of a large area (up to a radius of 50 feet per level). He may opt to dampen a certain type magic (10+level+int mod SR vs all abilities from a base magic feat) or strengthen a certain type of magic (increase DCs/bigger damage die/increase bonus by half...). The area of effect is spherical, and applies to abjurer as well as other MUs. Creating such an area is a draining process that takes four hours which fatigues the abjurer. Only one such area may be maintained, it instantly dissipates if abjurer starts creating another area or is incapacitated.
IV: Once per encounter, the abjurer can ward himself against extreme hostility. He gains +8 AC, +2 all saves, DR 15/-, immunity to mind effecting spells and his wards reflect melee damage upon his attackers. The effect lasts 2+int mod rounds.
I think those are pretty cool, 'cept for the first one being a Free Action. Move or Swift, perhaps?


Conjuration
I: The conjurer can summon summon a sapient, tiny sized outsider animal (such as reptiles, ferrets or birds) at will as a full round action. Such animals will not endanger themselves on behalf of the caster (no combat application), but are otherwise willing to serve as servitors, helpers, scouts or spies. Only one may be present at a time. Outsider animals can be kept on Prime for many hours. Conjurer can dismiss the creature as a free action.
II: Once per encounter, the conjurer can summon an outsider (as Summon Monster II) to fight for him as a full round action. The summon will vanish if its HP is depleted or within a few minutes. If used out of combat, the summon can perform some other task if doesn't think it's too demeaning.
III: The conjurer can permenantly bind an outsider (about as powerful as him, but not equal) to himself. The outsider acts as a servant and advisor, and will fight on conjurer's behalf. It's effectively a cohort NPC. If it's reduced to 0 HP, it's banished and can't be summoned again for many years.
IV: Once per encounter, the conjurer can summon a powerful outsider to aid him in combat. Such outsiders will expect a price. The outsider will resent having to perform for free, but will do so if no reward is offered. However, this will gain their enmity and they won't fight to the best of their abilities.
Again, pretty cool :elan:, maybe change III into IV and IV into III. Since the current III here is permanent, while IV is just for a while, the current III would fit better as a "capstone".


Divination
I: The diviner can see all magical auras and understand all written and spoken languages. (note that a diviner automatically detects though not necessarily sees through all illusions)
II: Once per encounter, the diviner can see into immediate future to achieve one of the following as a swift action: increase AC by 20 for a round, get +20 to hit for a single attack, increase initiative by 5 or maximize one damage die.
III: The diviner can enter a trance and extend his sight OR hearing out of his body at will. His extended sense travels at a speed of 240, can pass ordinary barriers and can stay out of him indefinitely. Diviner must sit or lie without doing anything else during his trance. He can still perceive his surroundings but any movement or action instantly ends the trance.
IV: Once per encounter, the diviner can maximize all dice he rolls for 3 rounds.
How 'bout II becoming III, III becoming IV, and IV becomig II? :thog: not-nale nailed nale when nale nailed not-nale


Enchantment
I: The enchanter has increased presence for all who can perceive him. He gains either +4 to any one of bluff, diplomacy, gather info, intimidate or perform skills; or a +4 to charisma as a free action. The effect is nullified if he's incapatitated.
II: Once per encounter, the enchanter can charm an opponent (will save negates) as a standard action.
III: The enchanter can hypnotize others with a glance (will save negates and grants immunity for a day). Hypnotized people will do as commanded to the best of their abilities, though the effect instantly wears off if they are wounded (HP reduced less than half).
IV: Once per encounter, the enchanter can dominate an opponent (will save negates). Dominated people are fully under the enchanter's control but will get additional saves every time they take damage or are forced to act against their interests. The effect will wear out in a few hours.
How 'bout +2 Charisma as a Full Round, instead? Keeping the others


Evocation
I: The evoker can create a magic missile at will as a standard action.
II: Once per encounter, the evoker can create a fireball that does 5d6 damage as a full round action.
III: The evoker's control over magic allows him to choose what sort of damage his attacks do (magic, fire, cold, electricity, acid, sonic, physical).
IV: Once per encounter, the evoker can blast an area into oblivion. Everything within a 20 foot radius sphere of target point (including the ground) will take 10d6 damage (ignores all DR). Any unattended item or creature reduced to 0 HP is disintegrated.
Cool, I guess


Illusion
I: The illusionist can magically disguise himself as a free action. He may change his clothes, face, voice, height, weight, gender and race as long as his size category doesn't change. The change doesn't include smell or touch.
II: Once per encounter, the illusionist (and everything he holds) can become invisible. Invisibility can be maintained for quite a while, but anyone illusionist gets close (within a 5 foot step) can detect him with a spot check. Attacking doesn't cancel the ability, but will give a +10 spot bonus to defender.
III: The illusionist can create an illusionary creature of large or smaller size. It must be of something he has seen closely. The illusion is either controlled directly, or programmed at its creation to do specific things (go there, do that, come back). If programmed, it will perform as it was instructed with no heed to anything unless illusionist mentally changes its instructions. It can touch and be touched by living beings, but can't move objects. Any damage dispels it. Crafting an image takes an hour. More than one can be created but only one can be controlled at one time.
IV: Once per encounter, the illusionist can create up to 10 identical illusionary creatures (he must be familiar with the creatures). These creatures will fight on caster's behalf. Their attacks inflict real damage, but they have 1 HP. (he may, of course, create illusions of himself and run while enemies are busy)
How 'bout +5 to Disguise checks along with I?


Necromancy
I: The necromancer can drain living beings' life. As a full round action, he can deal 1d6 damage to any living being up to 80 feet away and heal himself the same amount. His HP can't exceed the maximum.
II: Once per encounter, a necromancer can temporarily create a zombie or skeleton under his total control as a swift action, if a corpse is available. After some minutes, the undead reverts back to a corpse.
III: The necromancer can create undead (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, ghasts) from humanoid corpses. He can create as many as he likes, but can only control a number of them equal to his level. Ghouls and ghasts aren't mindless and hate their creator. Every time he creates an undead that exceeds his number of control, randomly one of the others go free. Skeletons and zombies usually wander off while ghouls and ghasts usually turn on their creator.
IV: Once per encounter, a necromancer can completely drain the life of a living creature. As a full round action, he can deal 3d6 con damage (fort save for half, but it's still crippling) to any living being up to 80 feet away and completely heal himself (or any other living creature he touches). If a creature is killed in this manner, its soul is absorbed by the necromancer (or whatever creature caster healed with the stolen life force).
:xykon: : I approve this


Transmutation
I: The transmuter can, at will, alter the body of any living creature (including himself) with a touch. He can increase/decrease a physical stat by 4 or increase one by 6 while decreasing another by 4 as a standard action. Unwilling targets need a touch attack and get a fort save to negate. Decreases can't bring an ability lower than 1. The effect lasts as long as transmuter wills. Unwilling targets get a fort save each round to end the effect.
II: Once per encounter, the transmuter can turn himself into a medium sized, normal animal that he's familiar with. He gains physical stats and speed of the animal. Transformation lasts about a few minutes, and transmuter must rest for half an hour between transformations.
III: The transmuter can increase his physical stats by a total of +8 points. At will, he can rearrange these bonus points as a full round action (he may opt not to have any bonus). He may also use stage I ability on top of this but they overlap, don't stack. This is a magical effect and is nullified if the transmuter is incapacitated. (note that an abjurer's area powers influence this)
IV: Once per encounter, the transmuter can turn any large or smaller sized creature into a little harmless animal (typically a toad). Victim gets fort saves to save himself only after 10 rounds.
I - I think 2 instead 4, and 4 instead 6 would fit better for a first level thing.
I think permanent changes to stats are a bit too much, specially one as big as +8

All in all, pretty damn kickass stuff you made :smallbiggrin:

On the Paths thing, I agree with what people have said. Its pretty cool, way more complicated (three times more complicated to be more precise :smallbiggrin:), but still, pretty cool.

[Sho]

A peek as to what I was suggesting/working on.

Healing Magick
Prerequisites: (Arcane Aptitude / Divine Teaching)
Stage I: You gain the ability to heal with a touch. At will, as a standard action, you can touch one target and grant that target hit points equal to 1d4 per point in your spellcasting attribute's modifier. Undead creatures struck with this spell can attempt a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 character level + spellcasting attribute's modifier), and if they are successful, then they only sustain half damage.
Stage II: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you can create a burst of positive energy which heals your allies and harms the undead. This spell's effect occurs within Close Range (25 Ft. + 5 Ft./2 character levels) of you and has a burst radius of 10 Ft. Hit Points restored is equal to 1d8 per point in your spellcasting attribute's modifier. Undead creatures caught in the burst effect can attempt a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 character level + spellcasting attribute's modifier), and if they are successful, then they only sustain half damage.
Stage III: You become a beacon of the Positive Material Plane. You and all allies adjacent to you gain Fast Healing equal to your spellcasting attribute's modifier. Undead creatures adjacent to you receive these points as Positive Energy damage (no save).
Stage IV: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you can restore an ally's or your Hit Points to its full capacity. Undead creatures struck with this spell can attempt a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 character level + spellcasting attribute's modifier), and if they are successful, then they only sustain 30 damage or lose half their hit points, which ever is less damage inflicted.

[Lady Tialait]

A peek as to what I was suggesting/working on.

Healing Magick
Prerequisites: (Arcane Aptitude / Divine Teaching)
Stage I: You gain the ability to heal with a touch. At will, as a standard action, you can touch one target and grant that target hit points equal to 1d4 per point in your spellcasting attribute's modifier. Undead creatures struck with this spell can attempt a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 character level + spellcasting attribute's modifier), and if they are successful, then they only sustain half damage.
Stage II: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you can create a burst of positive energy which heals your allies and harms the undead. This spell's effect occurs within Close Range (25 Ft. + 5 Ft./2 character levels) of you and has a burst radius of 10 Ft. Hit Points restored is equal to 1d8 per point in your spellcasting attribute's modifier. Undead creatures caught in the burst effect can attempt a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 character level + spellcasting attribute's modifier), and if they are successful, then they only sustain half damage.
Stage III: You become a beacon of the Positive Material Plane. You and all allies adjacent to you gain Fast Healing equal to your spellcasting attribute's modifier. Undead creatures adjacent to you receive these points as Positive Energy damage (no save).
Stage IV: Once per encounter, as a standard action, you can restore an ally's or your Hit Points to its full capacity. Undead creatures struck with this spell can attempt a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 character level + spellcasting attribute's modifier), and if they are successful, then they only sustain 30 damage or lose half their hit points, which ever is less damage inflicted.

My only problem with this is one of my problems with ToB, if you use rules like this, the party goes into every encounter at full HP, if you assume they will you require this feat, or skill or w/e. I believe that if you limit the amount of healing a person can get in a 24 hour period from each tier of healing there is alot more gritty feeling. Also, the management of resources makes the game more risky. But, then again. That just might be me.

[Yakk]

Make healing grant "temporary HP" that turn into real HP after the target has rested for 8 hours.

Then you can have at-will healing that doesn't mean that you can heal them to full instantly. :) Because if they already have temporary HP, giving them more doesn't give them more, if you get my drift.

Meanwhile, you can close wounds with a touch, as you want.

[Lady Tialait]

Not a bad idea...oh I've come up with a few more True Believer Feats.


Faithful Fire
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You have a continued aura of flame. This ability can be suppressed as a full-round action, and is a free action to activate. When this aura is activated, one weapon per point of casting stat bonus plus 2, burst on fire dealing 1D6 fire damage per 3 class levels.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy water creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster fire creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: Your Aura of flame intensify. Any time you are struck by a non-reach weapon the attacker takes 2D6 fire damage. This effect continues as long as you have your Aura of Flame activated.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with flames. In this form you gain fire resistance equal to your constitution score, may not deactivated your aura of flame, and a natural attack dealing 1D8 bludgeoning damage. You may also throw small fire balls. these projectiles deal 1D8+6 fire damage. This effect last for 6 rounds.

Faithful Earth
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You become more resistant to moral weaknesses. Gaining immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy air creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster earth creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: Your skin hardens providing a natural armor. This natural armor bonus is equal to your class level. In addition, you gain DR/Bludgening equal to your Constitution modifier.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with earth. In this form you gain acid resistance equal to your constitution score and a natural attack dealing 2D8 bludgeoning damage. You may also throw chunks of rock. these projectiles deal 2D8+1 bludgeoning damage. This effect last for 6 rounds.

Faithful Air
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: Your feet shun earth. From now on, you can float a foot above the ground. Instead of walking you glides along, unconcerned with the hard earth or difficult terrain. While you remains within 1 foot of a flat surface of any solid or liquid, you can take normal actions and make normal attacks, and can move at your normal speed (you can even “run” at four times her normal speed). However, at distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, your speed diminishes to 10 feet per round.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy earth creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster air creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: You may, at will create areas of mist. A misty vapor cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius from you, 20 ft. high arises around you. It is stationary once created. The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). A moderate wind (11+ mph), disperses the fog in 4 rounds. A strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round. A fireball, flame strike, or similar ability burns away the fog in the explosive or fiery spell’s area. A wall of fire burns away the fog in the area into which it deals damage. This ability does not function underwater.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with air. In this form you gain electricity resistance equal to your constitution score and a natural attack dealing 2D6 bludgeoning damage. You may also fly. Your fly speed is equal to your twice your base land speed with perfect control. This effect last for 6 rounds. If you are in the air when the effect ends, you take appropriate falling damage.

Faithful Water
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You may breath in water as easy as you breath air. You additionally gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy fire creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster water creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: You can raise or lower any body of water:
Lower Water:
This causes water or similar liquid to reduce its depth by as much as 2 feet per class level (to a minimum depth of 1 inch). The water is lowered within a squarish depression whose sides are up to class level × 10 feet long. In extremely large and deep bodies of water, such as a deep ocean, the ability creates a whirlpool that sweeps ships and similar craft downward, putting them at risk and rendering them unable to leave by normal movement for as long as concentration is maintained. When cast on water elementals and other water-based creatures, this ability acts as a slow spell (Will save DC 13+casting stat modifier). The spell has no effect on other creatures.
Raise Water
This causes water or similar liquid to rise in height, just as the lower water version causes it to lower. Boats raised in this way slide down the sides of the hump that the ability creates. If the area affected by the spell includes riverbanks, a beach, or other land nearby, the water can spill over onto dry land.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with water and shards of Ice. In this form you gain cold resistance equal to your constitution score and a natural attack dealing 2D8 bludgeoning damage. You may also throw small Ice Shards. These projectiles deal 1D8+6 cold damage. This effect last for 6 rounds.


What do you think? I had alot of thought on these.

[Zovc]

I decided to join these forums to help support this project, as I am very pleased with it.

First of all, keep up the good (great) work. I like what I've seen from this thread so far.

Personally, I think you are overpowering this variant with these tiered feats. If you are using the 1-6 gameplay for gritty fantasy, than I am fairly convinced that tiered feats are too powerful. I'm not opposed to them completely, but you should definately not get 2 of them at level 0, one at level 1, and two more before level six.

My 'fix' for you abundance of these cool--I do like the idea of them--feats would be to only give you access to one at the 0th level, this feat would be your "aptitude" feat, and would allow PC's (don't have to give them to commoners) to distinguish themselves, it also gives them a tough (but not grueling) choice to make.

Now, I am just putting my two cents in, and have no evidence beyond my gut feelings. The choice on tiered feats is ultimately up to you guys... and also whoever decides to use this system.

Concerning magic, if you are sticking with tiered feats:

Arcane magic should have a feat for most of the 'types' of spells among each school.
Example: Abjuration would have a feat for dispel magic, and also one for shielding effects. Conjuration would have a feat for summoning, and another for healing.
Doing this allows a mage to "specialize" in a given school, instead of just taking a feat for a diferent school at each level (which he may want to, and can still, do).

Divine magic should have a feat for each domain, I think. Make clerics tougher than mages and only able to get spell-feats at 1, 3, and 5.

As a side note, are races supposed to not have ability modifiers?

I'm going to read over your content a bit more closely and provide critique later.

[Lady Tialait]

I agree, with two feats at 0 level you can gish out waaaay too easy, but if we made Magical Aptitude or True believer into 0th level only feats. It would make it very hard to decide wither to take it or not. Especially if we only allow one feat at that level.

But, that is how i'd play it. I love making feats for customization also, as for the three different tiers I would go with PrC to break off. Feat selections, and such. If you do it this way you won't have to worry about three tiers. After all, that is basically making three classes in one. Alot of work, but you could basically get the same effect out of going with PrC and such.

Speaking of PrC, here's one for the Barbar...

The Frenzied Berserker
Hit Points: 8

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Feats: Power Attack, Great Fortitude
Special: Rage 1/encounter

Skill Points at each level: 4+ Int Modifier

Table 3-1: The Frenzied Berserker
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+1| Resistances Pool, Frenzy 1/encounter

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+2| Fearful Frenzy, Indomitable Frenzy

3rd|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+2| Paragon (Undying Frenzy), Frenzy 2/encounter[/table]


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Does not grant additional weapon or armor proficiency.

Resistances Pool: Frenzied Berserker's gain a pool of 5 that may be used each round while in Frenzy. This can be used as Resistance to Cold, Fire, Acid, Sonic, or Electricity, additionally it may reduce physical damage. They do not take this damage while they are Frenzied. But when the Frenzy ends, they twice the number of damage reduced by this ability.

Frenzy: The frenzied berserker may enter a frenzy once per encounter. Entering frenzy is a swift action, and, once activated, the frenzied berserker gains a +2 bonus to Strength, Constitution, and Will saves for the duration of the frenzy. Frenzy lasts a number of rounds equal to 5+ twice the Frenzy berserker's improved Constitution score. Each round the frenzy lasts the berserker takes 5 non-lethal damage. If the Berserker is rendered unconscious by any means the frenzy ends.

Fearful Frenzy:The Frenzied Berserker can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the Frenzied Berserker attacks or charges while in frenzy. Creatures within a radius of 90ft that have fewer HD than the Frenzied Berserker are potentially affected. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10+3+frenzied berserker's Str modifier) remains immune to that frenzied berserker's fearful frenzy for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds.

Indomitable Frenzy: When in Frenzy the Frenzied Berserker becomes immune to all mind-effecting abilities.

Paragon (Undying Frenzy): At third level a character gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. Additionally, the frenzied berserker opt to take no damage when struck with a attack that would kill them while in a frenzy. This effect acts like resistance. And may be used on any attack that would kill the frenzied berserker during a frenzy.



I really like this one. You are, my good man, a beat-stick. You very well may die, but that other mutha-fugger gunna die first!

[Zovc]

I agree, with two feats at 0 level you can gish out waaaay too easy, but if we made Magical Aptitude or True believer into 0th level only feats. It would make it very hard to decide wither to take it or not. Especially if we only allow one feat at that level.

I don't know how I feel about magical aptitude/true believer, personally. I don't think you need a certain amount of aptitude to become a wizard. A Scientist simply has to be smart enough to understand what he is studying to be a scientist, he doesn't have to be 'abnormally gifted with science.' Then again requiring a certain intelligence(/wisdom/charisma) works as qualifications, without forcing casters to cast away (Ha, "Cast." I made a pun.) a feat simply to be what they want to be. I could see Sorcerers requiring magical aptitude or favored souls (or monks, possibly... that's really just flavor, though) requiring true believer, but I don't think that wizards and clerics should need such feats. I also think that certain magic feats (if not all) should be available to non-magic users (perhaps with ability score requirements), they are still feats. I like the idea of a fighter who doesn't believe in magic being gifted with "dispel magic," and using it to counter spells or... dispel magic.

Magical Aptitude
I: You are extremely gifted with magic, you gain a +2 bonus to all spellcraft checks and knowledge (magic?) checks.
II: Once per encounter, you may use an arcane spell-like ability originating from a tier-two feat ability that you are able to use.
III: You now have the experience to support your talent, you may now add your hit dice (instead of the previous +2 bonus) as a bonus to all spellcraft, knowledge (magic?) checks, and all checks made to craft a magic item.
IVa: Once per encounter, you may use an arcane spell-like ability originating from a tier-four feat ability that you are able to use.
IVb: You gain an additional use for all of your arcane spell-like abilities originating from tier-two feats.
(I'm not sure which fits better, since IV abilities should be extremely powerful. I'd say that IVa suits a sorcerer better, while IVb would fit both a wizard an a sorcerer.)


Resistances Pool: Frenzied Berserker's gain a pool of 5 that may be used each round while in Frenzy. This can be used as Resistance to Cold, Fire, Acid, Sonic, or Electricity, additionally it may reduce physical damage. They do not take this damage while they are Frenzied. But when the Frenzy ends, they twice the number of damage reduced by this ability.

I don't think of a frenzied berserker as having abilities to worry about damage. Perhaps you could give him an ability that makes attackers save against fear or be unable to attack him, I personally wouldn't want to hit a freak cutting everyone in his path in two with his huge axe. I did like the paragon ability, by the way.


Frenzy: The frenzied berserker may enter a frenzy once per encounter. Entering frenzy is a swift action, and, once activated, the frenzied berserker gains a +2 bonus to Strength, Constitution, and Will saves for the duration of the frenzy. Frenzy lasts a number of rounds equal to 5+ twice the Frenzy berserker's improved Constitution score. Each round the frenzy lasts the berserker takes 5 non-lethal damage. If the Berserker is rendered unconscious by any means the frenzy ends.

That seems like a very long time to me... although rage is also "constitution score," and not constitution modifier... (references player's handbook) ...Yeah, the player's handbook says it's based on modifier, not score. Just pointing that out, that is an insanely long time to be able to use so many times in an encounter. The difference between 13 rounds and 3 rounds (rage, 10 con) is pretty big, but when you move onto frenzy... you have 5 rounds vs 25... Also, I think barbarians should need to recover their fatigue before being able to rage again, else they end their second one unconscious. (or some other balancing factor) It seems crazy to be able to rage multiple times each encounter when a 3.5 level 20 barbarian can rage only 6 times a day. After 3 encounters, a level 5 barbarian could have raged as many times as a level 20 barbarian was 'intended' to.

EDIT: It also says in the PHB that a barbarian may fly into a rage once per encounter.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I haven't had time to look over everything posted since my last reply, but what I have seen looks pretty damn good.

That said, I'll have the new class/prestige class format up within a day or two (as soon as I have more examples drawn up) so that classes can be constructed with what I think may end up being my final class plan.

I've basically boiled down the class to the six abilities (over 6 levels) that I feel compose the basis of the class: the rest of the abilities come from flavor that is, more or less, mutable.

Take the new Barbarian, for example. With the abilities of Warcry and the Inspiring Chieftain path, it's entirely possible to escape the raging warrior idea and make him an extremely zealous paladin sort. With no illiteracy, no class skills, and a choice of abilities, he can be tailored to rush into battle at the head of an army of knights, full of religious zeal (rage) and using his abilities to bolster his allies. Another Barbarian might be your standard barbarian, while a third might be something completely different.

With 10 Paths for each class (some will share, but 10 is my goal) and 10 abilities (although I'd settle for 5), there are a total of 3,250 unique combinations that can be achieved with each class. That said, while you CAN have that many possibilities, picking the ones that appeal to you shouldn't be that hard...there are only 10 to look through.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Expect a truenamer when the new class format comes out.

:smallbiggrin:

[Zovc]

Your last post makes me somewhat nervous, Dijinn. I like the idea of workable classes, but a barbarian is a barbarian, and a paladin is a paladin. Perhaps if you took fighters and made them able to web out into a barbarian, ranger, or paladin, I'd like the sound of that more. Then again, that sounds a bit to complicated for six levels. Keep in mind E6 (although not G6, I suppose) attempts to simplify things and make them more "gritty," 6-10 is heroic. As such, E/G6 should be 'semi-heroes' in my opinion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't make things too powerful, that defeats the purpose of this variant. That's my opinion, at least.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Your last post makes me somewhat nervous, Dijinn. I like the idea of workable classes, but a barbarian is a barbarian, and a paladin is a paladin. Perhaps if you took fighters and made them able to web out into a barbarian, ranger, or paladin, I'd like the sound of that more. Then again, that sounds a bit to complicated for six levels. Keep in mind E6 (although not G6, I suppose) attempts to simplify things and make them more "gritty," 6-10 is heroic. As such, E/G6 should be 'semi-heroes' in my opinion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't make things too powerful, that defeats the purpose of this variant. That's my opinion, at least.

Personally, I must disagree. Flavor is almost always mutable. Mechanics aren't. A Barbarian doesn't have to be a frothing rager...my example was just a (probably overstated) way to demonstrate that I'm branching away from a single roll for everything. And don't worry...G6, while it has some nice options, isn't that powerful. And monsters can alway compensate. If the net result is that fewer lone goblins are fought, and more tribes of ogres, so be it.

[Lady Tialait]

I agree with djinn, options will not take away from the gritty fun. They will however, make G6 more potent then E6. But that is okay, E6 gave a gritty game. Buuut, G6 will do much the same with ALOT more abilities, all effective. Then again, I may be wrong.

Umm...Another feat...


Faithful Sun
Prerequites: True Believer.
Stage I: 1/encounter you may attempt a turn undead. (Turning Rules, for those of us who don't know them...including me (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead))
Stage II: At will you may create a small orb of light, this light floats no farther then 10ft. away form you. It produces light as a small torch.
Stage III: 1/encounter you can perform a greater turning against undead. The greater turning is like a normal turning except that the undead creatures that would be turned are destroyed instead.
Stage IV: At will you may increase the light from your orb to extremely bright. This light can blind creatures and acts as natural sun light. The save vs. the blinding effect is 11+casting stat modifier.

Sorry, it's not alot, but it's there right?

[Pronounceable]

What I'm wondering is, can we come up with that many options without them becoming negligible variations? And then there's matter of balance. Options are inversely proportional to game balance, especially if some sort of multiclassing is allowed.


That said, here's a feat for the aspiring crusader:

Smite the Heretic (I'll admit it needs a better name)
Prereq: True Believer
I: You burn with holy fury. All your attacks deal extra +2 holy damage to all creatures not worshipping your deity. It's +1d8 against "heretics" of other deities.
II: Once per encounter, you may channel your deity's power upon the world. Every creature that isn't a follower of your deity within 30 feet of you takes 1d6 holy damage and is stunned for a round (fort save negates). "Heretics" of other deities take double damage and don't get to save.
III: Your zeal has no bounds. Any time you strike a heretic, your deity's power courses through you dealing +1d10 holy damage. You are healed (or gain temporary hp) by the same amount.
IV: You are a scourge to the heretics. Once per encounter, you may call your deity's fury upon a worshipper of another deity, dealing 6d8+2 per his cleric level holy damage.

[Lady Tialait]

I was thinking of something, regarding the Inborn magical ability vs. Learned Magical ability. So, I came up with some feats.


Studious Magic
Prerequisite Magical Aptitude, 14 casting stat.
Benefit:
Stage I: At will, you may create the effects of prestidigitation . In addition, you gain +2 on Knowledge (arcane), Spellcraft, and Use Magical Device.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may use a scroll without expending the magic of that scroll. This ability can only be used on a particular scroll once.
Stage III: You may take a 10 on any Knowledge (Arcane), Spellcraft, or Use Magical Device check, even if you under pressure. In addition, you may use detect magic and read magic at will.
Stage IV: You may craft a magical staff this staff has up to 3 levels worth of spells in it. (0 level spells are 1/2 a spell level for this purpose). You may activate this one spell from this staff 1/encounter.

Blood-Born Magic
Prerequisite Magical Aptitude, 14 casting stat.
Benefit:
Stage I: Any weapon you wield gains an extra 1D6 of either acid, fire, cold, sonic, or electricity. This will be the energy type of your aura.
Stage II: 1/encounter you can shoot a ray, this ray deals the same type of damage as your aura, and deals 1D4 damage per class level.
Stage III: You are surrounded by an aura of arcane power. You radiate magic as a cleric of good radiates good. In addition, when you take damage in melee by a non-reach weapon the person who struck you takes 1D4 damage this damage deals either acid, fire, cold, sonic, or electricity.
Stage IV: Choose 3 levels worth of spells, these are now spell-like abilities you may use one of them 1/encounter. If they have a energy discribtor, it's discribtor becomes the same as your aura.



Hope you like these...all I got for now.

[XiaoTie]

Here we go, an attempt to add more feats to the table. I'm a big fan of frontline classes, so:

Shield Specialization
Prerequisites: Barbarian, Fighter, Marshal or Rogue. Dextery or Strength 14
Benefits:
I: The Armor Penalty on all shields you are proficient with is reduced by 3. It is impossible to reduce the Armor Penalty over 0. In addition, if you are a Fighter or a Marshal, you may select one type of shield from the following list: buckler, heavy or light. When using a shield of the appropriate type, you increase its shield bonus to AC by 1.
II: Once per encounter, as a swift action, you can add 1/2 your DEX or STR modifier, rounded down, to the shield bonus AC. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the modifier (DEX or STR) selected to increase the shield bonus + 1 and stacks with the Stage I use of the Shield Specialization feat. If you are a Fighter or a Marshal, the number of rounds is increased by 2.
III: When using a shield the shield bonus it grants to AC is increased by 2. This stacks with the Stage I use of the Shield Specialization feat. Additionally, if you hit an opponent with your shield on a Charge, you may make a Bull Rush, Disarm or Trip attack without provoking attacks of opportunity, and the defender does not get to try Disarm or Trip you in return.
IV: Once per encounter you can make two free extra attacks with your shield on a full-attack or charge. In addition to any damage caused by your shield, you add +4d4, and the target hit by at least one of the shield’s attack needs to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + 1/2 the damage suffered from the shield 4d4 extra damage) or be Dazed for 2 rounds.


Comments: This is supposed to help all frontline classes, adding some minor extra benefits those who have more expertise in combat (namely Fighter and Marshal). But this could be changed with the new Paths thing, which makes the Barbarian not necessarily a, well, Barbarian.

[Dark-Penance]

I'd change the "Constitution score" to "Constitution modifier" in the Rage ability. Currently a barbarian with 16 constitution to start gets 21 rounds of rage whenever he or she uses the ability (after boosting strength through levels and/or the capstone ability).

EDIT: This has already been pointed out


I think I just thought of a nice compromise to the Base Attack Bonus issue (+6/+1 or +4/+1): create a feat the changes it from +6/+1 to +4/+1. That way, full base attack bonus classes don't get the short end of the stick by having one of their best features wasted completely, medium base attack bonus classes (which get +4 by 6) can get an iterative attack rather than having their base attack bonus wasted compared to poor base attack bonus classes, and poor base attack bonus classes remain iterative attack-less. This gives three distinctions: one with a natural iterative attack, one that can obtain an iterative attack at the expense of a feat, and one without an iterative attack.

Also, I just wanted to comment that some of these feats are rather powerful. I never viewed Power Attack as needing an improvement, for instance. +12 damage by level 6 before multipliers, per attack, is fairly impressive (and the attack deficiency easily remedied). Of course, none of them seem outright broken, which is great. I just wonder what sort of power level (certainly higher than E6, but obviously less than D&D) you are designing this system to cater to is all.

[Sho]

I think I just thought of a nice compromise to the Base Attack Bonus issue (+6/+1 or +4/+1): create a feat the changes it from +6/+1 to +4/+1. That way, full base attack bonus classes don't get the short end of the stick by having one of their best features wasted completely, medium base attack bonus classes (which get +4 by 6) can get an iterative attack rather than having their base attack bonus wasted compared to poor base attack bonus classes, and poor base attack bonus classes remain iterative attack-less. This gives three distinctions: one with a natural iterative attack, one that can obtain an iterative attack at the expense of a feat, and one without an iterative attack.
I think just simply changing the base attack bonus to give extra attacks after every +3 bonus is good enough.

Also, I just wanted to comment that some of these feats are rather powerful. I never viewed Power Attack as needing an improvement, for instance. +12 damage by level 6 before multipliers, per attack, is fairly impressive (and the attack deficiency easily remedied). Of course, none of them seem outright broken, which is great. I just wonder what sort of power level (certainly higher than E6, but obviously less than D&D) you are designing this system to cater to is all.
G6, I feel, as Djinn said it originally on the Wizards boards, should provide the same gritty fantasy as E6, but the classes should be more complete.

Classes should all be well balanced with each other, or easy to create to appeal to the player-base.

I've begun to see too far a rise in power, myself, and for now, I've stuck with the method of class creation first described in this thread's first page.

As far as spellcasting goes, I've kept to the spells/day-known contributed to the Wizard/Sorcerer and other spellcasting classes, but I'm working on class features which grant them the capability to retrieve spells or have spell-like abilities which are weaker than the average spell... but committable on a much more common basis.

The Feat Trees are a prized addition that shakes things up in the game. I'm somewhat stuck between little and 'whoa' when I think about them, though.

~Edit~
Multiclassing is rather difficult in this variant. Of course, you can obviously multiclass all you want, but if you multiclass into any class or two without taking a PrC by 4th level, then you're screwed, because your character will never attain his or her own Paragon ability.

This is not necessarily a problem, because there could be PrCs built for characters who do multiclass into Gish like "builds". Would it really impact on the game on a grand scale? No, I would not think so.

[Zovc]

I was going to suggest that at level 6 you simply get two ability points, and whether or not you get a paragon ability is based on how you leveled your classes.

In other words, you need either 6 in a base class or 3 in a prestige class to get a paragon ability, but even if you don't meet either of those at level 6 you still get two ability points.

[Raroy]

So Monk's have an armory penalty. A +10 base land speed thrown in there would be nice.

I am very monk sensitive. I'd test this out with all of you if you ever want to take it to PBP.

Just let me read over everything you posted ten times so I make sure not to miss anything.

[Lady Tialait]

A few questions. You said that a character would have five feats (more if class gives more) by level six. Does this mean that you get two feats at level one? Or did I miss something about class abilities being feats?

FOB's hit bonus doesn't increase does it? I guess that's why Greater Flurry says that it loses it's penalty. Or does negative modifier disappear from the hit bonus total?

So Monk's have an armory penalty. A +10 base land speed thrown in there would be nice.

I am very monk sensitive. I'd test this out with all of you if you ever want to take it to PBP.

Two Feats at level 0. One at level 1, one at 3, and 1 at 6...that makes 5 feats. That help?

I never liked feats being weak. You only get so many of them. Skills can be weak, you get loads of them. But feats, need to be powerful. Perhaps just a bit weaker then class features, with only 6 levels I think Multiclassing shouldn't be allowed. But, then again, in my home game (standard style D&D, now we are in epicS) multi-classing takes a feat. But, then again, that is just me.

Edit:

And...speaking of Feats.... >.> here


Chi Magic
Prerequisite: Stunning Fist 1/encounter
Benefits:
Stage I: You gain a +10 enhancement bonus to your speed. And, anytime you would take falling damage you take 1D6 less, as long as you have a surface to slow your fall with.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may ignite your fists or other natural weapon aflame, this deals 1D6 fire damage, and has a chance to catch the opponent on fire, Ref save (DC 12+wis modifier) to avoid catching on fire. This effect lasts till the beginning of your next round.
Stage III: You may spend a full-round action to gain SR equal to your monk level + 5. This effect lasts 1 round per wisdom modifier.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may throw a ball of fire from your palms, this effect deals 1D6 damage per monk level. It counts as a unarmed strike for all purposes.


It just went through my head....

In addition, I was thinking maybe Magical Aptitude, or True believer. could be 1st level only feats. Or perhaps a feat you take you only get the stages for your level, and when you level you gain the next stage. So, if I took Greater Fortitude not till level 6 I would only gain the stage IV ability. That is only an idea, but it might bring the power level of these feats down.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I think just simply changing the base attack bonus to give extra attacks after every +3 bonus is good enough.

While this is tempting, I'm worried it might give full BaB classes to much power, as so many feats/abilities (especially the fighter's) add damage.


I've begun to see too far a rise in power, myself, and for now, I've stuck with the method of class creation first described in this thread's first page.

This is true. Classes now get 3 abilities per level, at least 1 of which is a per/encounter ability. This is because I wanted variety and customization, as well as something new each level (and passive abilities, I realized, can be fun...but they can also be boring [i.e. the Scout's Flawless Stride]). Per encounter abilities ensure that you ALWAYS get something you can use, regardless of the circumstances. The power increase should be fairly negligible overall.



Multiclassing is rather difficult in this variant. Of course, you can obviously multiclass all you want, but if you multiclass into any class or two without taking a PrC by 4th level, then you're screwed, because your character will never attain his or her own Paragon ability.

This is not necessarily a problem, because there could be PrCs built for characters who do multiclass into Gish like "builds". Would it really impact on the game on a grand scale? No, I would not think so.

This is very true. Hence the description of how designing a PrC is an important part of this game. If you multiclass, you have a goal in mind, and a PrC should help you reach that goal.

[Lady Tialait]

I figured it might be a PrC, but I didn't know if you wanted to make it a feat instead or not ^_^

I made a crapload of feats yesterday. They're ALIIIIIVE!

Opportunist
Prerequisites: None
Stage I:m You gain an additional number of attacks of opportunity per round equal to your dexterity modifier. You cannot use more than one attack of opportunity per provocation.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may make an attack of opportunity against one foe within reach that has just been struck in melee.
Stage III: Victims of your attacks of opportunity are considered flat-footed until the beginning of their next action.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may enter a zenlike state of combat reaction. For a number of rounds equal to your dexterity modifier, any melee attack against you provokes attacks of opportunity.

Iron Will
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Will saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may add your Wisdom modifier as an insight bonus to any single attack roll, skill check, saving throw, or ability check.
Stage III: You no longer fall unconcious when reduced below 0 hit points and may continue fighting without penalty until slain.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, when you would otherwise be slain, you may continue fighting without penalty or death for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier, after which you die.

Lightning Reflexes
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Reflex saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may make a single melee attack roll or strength or dexterity-based skill check as an immediate action. If your skill check causes you to move from your square in response to an attack, your attacker may select a new target within reach (your movement still provokes attacks of opportunity).
Stage III: You gain a +2 dodge bonus to armor class.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may make a full attack as an immediate action. Doing so is physically tiring, leaving you fatigued for the rest of the encounter.

Murderer
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You may make coup-de-grace attacks as a move action instead of a full-round action.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may strike a crippling blow that deals weapon damage plus two points of strength or dexterity damage to your victim. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this ability. You must declare that you are using this ability before you roll your attack, and a missed attack wastes the use.
Stage III: You may make coup-de-grace attacks against prone and stunned opponents (your coup-de-grace attemtps still provoke attacks of opportunity).
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you may strike a vicious blow that deals weapon damage, plus an amount of strength and dexterity damage equal to your intelligence modifier. Creatures immune to critical hits are also immune to this ability. You must declare the use of this ability before you roll your attack, and a miss wastes the use.

Great Fortitude
Prerequisites: None
Stage I: You gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves.
Stage II: Once per encounter, you may roll a Fortitude save in place of a Reflex save. Additionally, you gain a +4 bonus on saves vs. disease.
Stage III: You gain immunity to poison.
Stage IV: Once per encounter, you can enter a state where you feel no pain and shrug off even the fiercest of blows with ease. For a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier, you gain DR 5/- and immunity to physical ability score damage.

Lighning Reflexes are already taken care of...and Djinn said no more then a +1 on Saves....and changed a few of them...just...for future refrance.

[Pronounceable]

Are we decided on magic? I'd like to continue on wizards, but I need to know how magic is gonna work. One feat per spell that scales, one feat per school plus advanced feats, different wizard classes with unique class abilities, or something out of the blue like spell points?

And I'd agree that intro to major stuff like Magic Aptitude and True Believer should be restricted in some ways to take. Though level restriction doesn't fit for True Believer, since one can "see the light" at any time during their lives.

I'd also agree to restricting feat stages. Upon taking the feat, you gain stage I regardless of your own level. You gain other stages as you level up. So only feats taken at level 0 or 1 can reach stage IV, while a feat taken at level 6 only has stage I. Now this may seem too weakening, but remember the class abilities increase also. This sort of thing would keep the overall power down and nip batmanery in the bud.


That Chi Magic is suspiciously Street Fighty...

[Lady Tialait]

Are we decided on magic? I'd like to continue on wizards, but I need to know how magic is gonna work. One feat per spell that scales, one feat per school plus advanced feats, different wizard classes with unique class abilities, or something out of the blue like spell points?

I dunno...try something? I don't think anyone has decided yet.



And I'd agree that intro to major stuff like Magic Aptitude and True Believer should be restricted in some ways to take. Though level restriction doesn't fit for True Believer, since one can "see the light" at any time during their lives.
And wizards learn magic...later in life...



I'd also agree to restricting feat stages. Upon taking the feat, you gain stage I regardless of your own level. You gain other stages as you level up. So only feats taken at level 0 or 1 can reach stage IV, while a feat taken at level 6 only has stage I. Now this may seem too weakening, but remember the class abilities increase also. This sort of thing would keep the overall power down and nip batmanery in the bud.

I sooo agree with that...I mean you will have a powerful feats, and the longer you have a feat, the better they are...If you just gain something, it's not gunna be fully opened.


That Chi Magic is suspiciously Street Fighty...

Ya'know....shutyomouth....:smalltongue:

[XiaoTie]

Ya'know....shutyomouth....:smalltongue:
He's talking about Shaft!

~We can dig it.


I'd also agree to restricting feat stages. Upon taking the feat, you gain stage I regardless of your own level. You gain other stages as you level up. So only feats taken at level 0 or 1 can reach stage IV, while a feat taken at level 6 only has stage I. Now this may seem too weakening, but remember the class abilities increase also. This sort of thing would keep the overall power down and nip batmanery in the bud.

I like this idea as well. Perhaps one could gain the last stages when he "goes beyond 6th level". Instead gaining new feats (like E6 works, IIRC), you first go all the way up through stages of feats you already have.

[Lady Tialait]

That gives us a 'virtual' level cap at 9, at that point perhaps gain new Stage I...I'm lovin' it..


Demonic Lore
Prerequisite: Magical Aptitude, or True Believer
Benefit:
Stage I: You are accompanied by an animal, it's HD may not exceed your own -2, this animal has the fiendish template. If this animal ever dies, you recipient another one after 24 hours of meditation.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 drech, they follow your orders till the beginning of the next round, then vanish.
Stage III: You gain the Fiendish Template.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may gain the used of the Half-Fiend template, the effect of this ability lasts for 1 round per point of constitution modifier.


I just thought that would be a neat feat.

[XiaoTie]

That gives us a 'virtual' level cap at 9, at that point perhaps gain new Stage I...I'm lovin' it..


Demonic Lore
Prerequisite: Magical Aptitude, or True Believer
Benefit:
Stage I: You are accompanied by an animal, it's HD may not exceed your own -2, this animal has the fiendish template. If this animal ever dies, you recipient another one after 24 hours of meditation.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 drech, they follow your orders till the beginning of the next round, then vanish.
Stage III: You gain the Fiendish Template.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may gain the used of the Half-Fiend template, the effect of this ability lasts for 1 round per point of constitution modifier.


I just thought that would be a neat feat.

I like Stages I, II and III, but IV seems a bit too powerfull, even for a final stage thing. Even with the 'virtual level cap' of 9, this still strikes me as a bit too porweful. I mean:


Special Qualities

A half-fiend has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to poison.
* Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10.
* Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).
* A half-fiend’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
* Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35).

Abilities

Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2.

Not to mention the Spell-Like Abilities. :smalleek:

[Vadin]

Magic as feats...very interesting. What are the problems with that idea right now? Picking up a huge number of abilities by taking a late-game feat. How to solve this? Feats like this:

Fire I only requires Magical Aptitude and a 12 in the casting stat. It grants minor in-combat situational and stat bonuses. If it grants any damaging abilities, they are usable often and deal little damage.

Fire II requires Fire I, Magical Aptitude, and a 14 in the casting stat. It grants some more bonuses to doing things, bonuses used against fire creatures, some fire resistance, and a stage two or three ability that can deal some medium damage occasionally in an encounter.

Fire III requires Fire I, Fire II, Magical Aptitude, and a 16 in the casting stat. It grants two or three per encounter abilities and some abilities that enhance the damage done by a character's fire abilities.

Seems like a lot. To be honest, it is. How to fix it? Give the magic class these feats as bonus feats. With this set-up, the fighter can take True Believer at level one and some holy magic abilities and become a pseudo-paladin. The barbarian can make his level 1 feat Magical Aptitude and take the Fire feats and become a raging flamer (lol).

It needs a standardized format for what kinds of things <Insert Magic> I, II, and III all gain and at what stages, but it seems a reasonable reconciliation between all spells should be feats and all spells should be a feat.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Well, Magic works with a feat type system, only it's restricted by the Path choices now. A mage gets two path choices and two per/encounter abilities, and these represent his spells. Although I'm not opposed to having some feats representing magical abilities as well...

[Raroy]

I'm currently working on a prestige class that is based off Chi Magic feat. The class is called Flaming Fist ( I made sure this hasn't been done before).

Flaming Fist
Hit Points: 6

Prerequisites
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: N/A
Feats: Chi Magic Stage II
Skills: N/A

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Flaming Fist
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+1|
+1| Refined Flame, Fiery fury.

2nd|
+1|
+1|
+2|
+2| Charred Roots, Bonus Feat

3rd|
+2|
+2|
+3|
+3| Paragon (Inferno), Fiery fury 2/encounter[/table]


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: No new Weapon or Armor proficiency.

Fiery Fury: At 1st level, A flaming Fist may ignite her fist for four rounds dealing 1d6 fire damage. This also has a chance to set the opponent ablaze (Dc 12 +wis) This includes flurry of blows.

Refined Flame At First Level, The Flaming Fist has gained the ability to heal her self and others for 1d8 + wis mod as a swift action. She can use this ability up to as many times her Flaming Fist level an encounter.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, the Flaming Fist gains a bonus feat.

Charred Roots: At 2nd level, The Flaming Fist counts as a monk for all rules that require monk levels as a factor. Flurry of Blows also loses it's penalty.

Paragon (Inferno): At third level a character gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. In addition, the Flaming fist can cause an explosion of flame dealing 6d6 fire damage damaging all
around the flaming fist (radius) excluding allies. The Inferno still damages the Flaming Fist but they may subtract their wisdom mod from the total damage.

Still needs some sprucing up, suggestions?

[XiaoTie]

I think the "Paragon (Inferno)" might be a bit too much. The other examples of PrC's (by Djin) only had the +1 to two abilities and some small bonuses based on the fluff. 6d6 extra fire damage at any time at will is a bit too much, even with the damage to the character, which is reduced by his WIS mod. Also, the Refined flame should be X/Encounter, not X/Day, that is, if we are still following the guidelines from the first few posts by Djin.

Table 3-1: The [Class Name]
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Class Ability, Encounter Ability 1/encounter

2nd|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Class Ability, Class Ability

3rd|
+X|
+X|
+X|
+X| Paragon (Capstone Ability), Encounter Ability 2/encounter[/table]

And since you made it "based off Chi Magic feat", perhaps adding the class' X/encounter ability to make some use of the feat, somehow. :elan:

[Lady Tialait]

I like the PrC, as for your idea on the paragon, it's sapose to be a Major ability, after all this is the last class feature they will get. I think the per day ability needs to be a per encounter. Other then that, it looks fine. I like it.

[Raroy]

Well, on average the attack does 18 damage. Even with 16 wisdom that's only subtracts three damage. 15 damage to yourself on average at sixth level is like losing.....a third of your life. Perhapses the number of uses could be limited...

[Zovc]

Keep in mind that many (PC) fighters will have 14+ health at level 0.

Being able to one-shot one level 0 fighter a day (can you use flaming fist more than once a day?) doesn't seem like too big of a deal to me.

[Dark-Penance]

A character with 14 Constitution and 8 hit points from class levels has 72 hit points at level 6.

This actually brought me to a point of personal preference: I like the slightly lower amount of hit points that E6 gives versus G6. For instance, a d12 character with 14 Constitution in E6 will have, on average, 56.5 hit points at level 6, 16 fewer than in G6. I understand the need for 0th-level characters to have some class-independent source of hit points so that they can survive, but it causes the system to essentially count constitution twice.


If I were personally going to use G6, I'd be house-ruling the hit points lower like this:
d12 classes receive 6 hit points.
d10 classes receive 5 hit points.
d8 classes receive 4 hit points.
d6 classes receive 3 hit points.
d4 classes receive 2 hit points.

Additionally, while characters gain their Constitution Score as hit points at the 0th-level, they do not gain their Constitution Modifier as hit points at any subsequent level.

With these changes, let us examine the 14-Constitution d12 character. In this system, he received 14 hit points at level 0, and 6 at each subsequent level. At level 6, he has accumulated 50 hit points (just under what E6 grants - noting that E6 does not incorporate a level 0).

Obviously, not everyone will want to make these same changes, but I have always viewed the "6" version of the game as being aimed toward limiting power and making the game a bit grittier.

[Vadin]

I thought two might be better than three. Basically, though, things like this, with Feat I and Feat II. The feats would, of course, be fairly specific, as opposed to broad and wide reaching school feats. A character can take Fire I to add some an elemental option to their abilities, and they can take Fire II to expand upon and further enhance. those options. Thoughts?

Fire I
Prerequisites: Magical Aptitude, Casting Stat 12
I: You may deal 1d4 fire damage as a touch attack with a 30 ft. range at will.
II: As a swift action once per encounter, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all attacks you make (both melee and ranged attacks) deal an additional 1d6 fire damage. You gain fire resistance 5.
III: All fire damage you deal is increased by 1d6. Your stage one ability now deals 1d6 damage instead of 1d4.
IV: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all fire damage you deal is doubled and you gain immunity to fire damage.

Fire II
Prerequisites: Fire I, Magical Aptitude, Casting Stat 16
I: All fire damage you deal is increased by your casting stat modifier.
II: Once per encounter, your Stage I ability from Fire I can create a 15 ft. burst when it hits. When you are dealing fire damage, the attack reduces cover by one step.
III: Your fire resistance is increased by an additional 5 points. Once per encounter, for a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all fire attacks you make deal half damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target.
IV: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, your fire resistance is ignored. During this duration, the fire damage you receive halved and given to you as hp.

[EDIT]Wow...I started typing that an hour or so before I submitted it. I shouldn't have stopped for ramen...

[Lady Tialait]

I thought two might be better than three. Basically, though, things like this, with Feat I and Feat II. The feats would, of course, be fairly specific, as opposed to broad and wide reaching school feats. A character can take Fire I to add some an elemental option to their abilities, and they can take Fire II to expand upon and further enhance. those options. Thoughts?

Fire I
Prerequisites: Magical Aptitude, Casting Stat 12
I: You may deal 1d4 fire damage as a touch attack with a 30 ft. range at will.
II: As a swift action once per encounter, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all attacks you make (both melee and ranged attacks) deal an additional 1d6 fire damage. You gain fire resistance 5.
III: All fire damage you deal is increased by 1d6. Your stage one ability now deals 1d6 damage instead of 1d4.
IV: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all fire damage you deal is doubled and you gain immunity to fire damage.

Fire II
Prerequisites: Fire I, Magical Aptitude, Casting Stat 16
I: All fire damage you deal is increased by your casting stat modifier.
II: Once per encounter, your Stage I ability from Fire I can create a 15 ft. burst when it hits. When you are dealing fire damage, the attack reduces cover by one step.
III: Your fire resistance is increased by an additional 5 points. Once per encounter, for a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all fire attacks you make deal half damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target.
IV: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, your fire resistance is ignored. During this duration, the fire damage you receive halved and given to you as hp.

[EDIT]Wow...I started typing that an hour or so before I submitted it. I shouldn't have stopped for ramen...


Very nice, I like it. I wasn't sure I'd like it but I do. Oh, and about my Demonic Lore, It does seem a little too powerful, any suggestions on how to fix it?


Annnd here is another Feat!

Nature's Lore
Prerequisite: True Believer, Casting Stat 14+
Benefit:
Stage I: You can use speak with animals and speak with plants at will as a spell-like ability. Add Knowledge (nature) to your list of class class skills.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may create a effect like entangle and spike growth. This effect lasts 1 round per class level, the save DC is 12+casting stat mod.
Stage III: You gain an Animal Companion as a druid of your class level -2. linkage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion)
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may create the effect of Summon Nature's Ally II. Your caster level is equal to your class levels.

Stalwart Faith
Prerequisite: True Believer.
Stage I: You gain a +1 divine bonus to your saves.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may re roll a D20 roll. You must make this reroll before you know the results of your action, and you must take the results of the reroll even if they are worse then the original.
Stage III: You gain a +1 divine bonus to your saves.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may take a full-round action to become immune to physical damage. This effect lasts till the beginning of your next turn.


I really want True Believer to be a good feat no matter, not just a caster's feat. So, I am thinking of things like Stalwart Faith. Whatchathink? Comments? Complains? Irrelevant statements?

[InaVegt]

I thought two might be better than three. Basically, though, things like this, with Feat I and Feat II. The feats would, of course, be fairly specific, as opposed to broad and wide reaching school feats. A character can take Fire I to add some an elemental option to their abilities, and they can take Fire II to expand upon and further enhance. those options. Thoughts?

Fire
Prerequisites: Magical Aptitude, Casting Stat 12
I: You may deal 1d4 fire damage as a touch attack with a 30 ft. range at will.
II: As a swift action once per encounter, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all attacks you make (both melee and ranged attacks) deal an additional 1d6 fire damage. You gain fire resistance 5.
III: All fire damage you deal is increased by 1d6. Your stage one ability now deals 1d6 damage instead of 1d4.
IV: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all fire damage you deal is doubled and you gain immunity to fire damage.

Fira
Prerequisites: Fire I, Magical Aptitude, Casting Stat 16
I: All fire damage you deal is increased by your casting stat modifier.
II: Once per encounter, your Stage I ability from Fire I can create a 15 ft. burst when it hits. When you are dealing fire damage, the attack reduces cover by one step.
III: Your fire resistance is increased by an additional 5 points. Once per encounter, for a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, all fire attacks you make deal half damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target.
IV: Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may activate this ability. For a number of rounds equal to your casting stat modifier, your fire resistance is ignored. During this duration, the fire damage you receive halved and given to you as hp.

[EDIT]Wow...I started typing that an hour or so before I submitted it. I shouldn't have stopped for ramen...

Fixed the names.

The next one would be:

Firaga

And then:

Firaja

But, I'm not in the mood to make them.

[Pronounceable]

PS: This whole post took some time. I see new ideas for specific magic effects as feats have popped up. And we're not naming individual stages are we? That'd be a nightmare.


First, a little replacement:

Magical Training
Prereqs: int mod must be positive, PC must have had a mage mentor or otherwise had some magic education
I: You can treat Spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana), and Use Magical Device as class skills.
II: You may resist all hostile magical effects and attacks directed at you for one round once per encounter.
III: You are well attuned to magic. You gain 5+level+int mod SR against all hostile effects.
IV: Once per encounter, you may restore all of your magical encounter abilities except this one.

Tialait’s Aptitude had a troubled III, and IV seemed out of place in a general magic feat. This one’s III is a bit troubled as well, 10+clevel could be better in practice. And aptitude sounds innate thus inappropriate to bookworms.

I’m a bit confused by Djinn’s last post. He said two paths plus two encounter powers, but a class is supposed to have 6 class abilities, one secondary ability, one encounter ability and a capstone from the class creation table. I’ll interpret it as two magic “paths”, two unique encounter abilities, two passive/at wills plus the capstone.

Here’s the main arcane caster class. Since I don’t know how to make tables, I won’t.


The Mage
HP 4
Skill pts/level: 4+int mod
BAB: worst
Fort/Ref: worst
Will: best
No weapon or armor proficiency.
Specials:
1st: Prestidigitation at will, Magical Training
2nd: Gain one base magic feat, Dispel (encounter)
3rd: Gain one advanced magic feat, Identification (at will)
4th: Gain one base magic feat, Greater Dispel (encounter)
5th: Gain one advanced magic feat, Enchanting (at will)
6th: Metamagic (capstone)

The mage can create minor magic tricks at will.

The mage gets Magical Training for free.

Upon reaching levels 2 and 4, the mage learns one of the main paths of magic (abjuration, conjuration, etc).

Upon reaching levels 3 and 5, the mage specializes in the paths of magic available to him.

Dispel: Once per encounter, the mage can attempt to suppress the magic of another as a swift action (that can be readied). Target must roll vs a SR of 10+clevel+int mod to successfully manifest or retain its magical ability. Magic reactivates after 3 rounds.

Identification: The mage can discern the magical properties of an item. It takes half an hour.

Greater Dispel: Once per encounter, the mage can attempt to disrupt the magic in a radius of 15 feet as a swift action (that can be readied). All target within the area must roll vs a SR of 15+clevel+int mod to successfully manifest its magical ability. Effect lasts 5 rounds.

Enchanting: The mage can imbue an object with arcane power. He may imbue any item with a single use of one of his at will powers. Resulting item can be commanded by anyone (with proper activation phrase) to unleash its effect. Process is draining and the mage must rest afterwards. Whole event takes an hour, during which the mage can take no other action. Alternately the mage can store one of his encounter abilities in an item, but it’s even harder and takes half a day.

Metamagic: The mage has achieved an unrivaled understanding of magic. He can apply a single metamagic effect (empower, enlarge, extend, maximize) to any of his magical abilities. He can do it every two rounds. He may force himself to use metamagic without waiting a round, but that deals 1 con damage and then the mage must wait two rounds before using metamagic again. He may continue to use metamagic but the con damage and waiting time doubles every round of consecutive casting.


Mage seems quite weak at 1st, but smart use of prestidigitation will carry him through. I tried to make all its abilities distinctly generalist and tied to no “path”.

I’ll assume that feats will level up at 3rd, 5th and 6th. Here’s my somewhat revised base magic feats or “paths”. And keep in mind that encounter abilities can be used out of combat as well.


Abjuration
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The abjurer can magically protect himself with a magic field. The protection grants him +4 to AC. He can suppress and reactivate it as a swift action.
II: Once per encounter, the abjurer can shield anyone with a powerful protection as a swift action. The protection grants DR 7/magic and lasts 3+int mod rounds. Alternately, the abjurer can keep the shield up if he stands still and takes no action but holding the shield.
III: The abjurer can alter the magical properties of a large area (up to a radius of 50 feet per level). He may opt to dampen a certain type magic (10+level+int mod SR vs all abilities from a base magic feat) or strengthen a certain type of magic (increase DCs/bigger damage die/increase bonus by half...). The area of effect is spherical, and applies to abjurer as well as other casters. Creating such an area is a draining process that takes four hours which fatigues the abjurer. Only one such area may be maintained, it instantly dissipates if abjurer starts creating another area or is incapacitated.
IV: Once per encounter, the abjurer can ward himself against extreme hostility. He gains +8 AC, +2 all saves, DR 15/-, immunity to mind effecting spells and his wards reflect melee damage upon his attackers. The effect lasts 2+int mod rounds.

Conjuration
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The conjurer can summon summon a sapient, tiny sized outsider animal (such as reptiles, ferrets or birds) at will as a full round action. Such animals will not endanger themselves on behalf of the caster (no combat application), but are otherwise willing to serve as servitors, helpers, scouts or spies. Only one may be present at a time. Outsider animals can be kept on Prime for many hours. Conjurer can dismiss the creature as a free action.
II: Once per encounter, the conjurer can summon an outsider (as Summon Monster II) to fight for him as a full round action. The summon will vanish if its HP is depleted or within a few minutes. If used out of combat, the summon can perform some other task if doesn't think it's too demeaning.
III: The conjurer can permenantly bind an outsider (about as powerful as him, but not equal) to himself. The outsider acts as a servant and advisor, and will fight on conjurer's behalf. It's effectively a cohort NPC. If it's reduced to 0 HP, it's banished and can't be summoned again for many years.
IV: Once per encounter, the conjurer can summon a powerful outsider to aid him. Such outsiders will expect a price. The outsider will resent having to perform for free, but will do so if no reward is offered. However, this will gain their enmity and they won't fight/perform to the best of their abilities.

Divination
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The diviner can see all magical auras and understand all written and spoken languages (but not speak or write). (note that a diviner automatically trumps all abilities of an illusioner)
II: Once per encounter, the diviner can see into immediate future to achieve one of the following as a swift action: increase AC by 10 for a round, get +20 to hit for a single attack, increase initiative by 5 or maximize one damage die.
III: The diviner can extend his sight OR hearing out of his body at will. He creates a pair of magical eyes or ears that move under his complete control, see or hear as if he’s there, travel at a speed of 240, can pass ordinary barriers and can stay out of him indefinitely. Diviner must sit or lie without doing anything else during this. He can still perceive his surroundings but any movement or action instantly ends the effect.
IV: Once per encounter, the diviner can lock onto the future of any creature. Everything diviner does to this target is successful, while anything target does to diviner automatically fails (unless the diviner wishes otherwise). This effect lasts 5 rounds.

Enchantment
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The enchanter has increased presence for all who can perceive him. He gains either +4 to any one of bluff, diplomacy, gather info, intimidate or perform skills; or a +4 to charisma as a free action. The effect is nullified if he's incapatitated.
II: Once per encounter, the enchanter can charm an opponent (will save negates) as a standard action.
III: The enchanter can hypnotize others with a glance (will save negates and grants immunity for a day). Hypnotized people will do as commanded to the best of their abilities, though the effect instantly wears off if they take damage.
IV: Once per encounter, the enchanter can dominate an opponent (will save negates). Dominated people are fully under the enchanter's control but will get additional saves every time they take damage or are forced to act against their interests. The effect will wear out in a few hours.

Evocation
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The evoker can create a number of magic missiles equal to his level at will as a standard action.
II: Once per encounter, the evoker can create a fireball that does 5d6 damage as a full round action.
III: The evoker's control over magic allows him to choose what sort of damage his attacks do (magic, fire, cold, electricity, acid, sonic, physical).
IV: Once per encounter, the evoker can blast an area into oblivion. Everything within a 20 foot radius sphere of target point (including the ground) will take 10d6 damage (ignores all DR). Any unattended item or creature reduced to 0 HP is disintegrated.

Illusion
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The illusionist can magically disguise himself as a free action (as per spell). He may change his clothes, face, voice, height, weight, gender and race as long as his size category doesn't change. The change doesn't include smell or touch.
II: Once per encounter, the illusionist (and everything he holds) can become invisible. Effect doesn’t extend to anything picked up after it’s initiated. Invisibility can be maintained for quite a while, but anyone illusionist gets close (within a 5 foot step) can detect him with a spot check. Attacking doesn't cancel the ability, but will give a +10 spot bonus to defender. It can hold until the end of the encounter.
III: The illusionist can create an illusionary creature of large or smaller size. It must be of something he has seen closely. The illusion is either controlled directly, or programmed at its creation to do specific things (go there, do that, come back). If programmed, it will perform as it was instructed with no heed to anything unless illusionist mentally changes its instructions. It can touch and be touched by living beings, but can't move objects. Any damage dispels it. Crafting an image takes an hour. More than one can be created but only one can be controlled at one time.
IV: Once per encounter, the illusionist can create up to 10 identical illusionary creatures (he must be familiar with the creatures). These creatures will fight on caster's behalf. Their attacks inflict real damage, but they have 1 HP. (he may, of course, create illusions of himself and run while enemies are busy)

Necromancy
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The necromancer can drain living beings' life. As a full round action, he can deal 1d6 damage to any living being up to 80 feet away and heal himself the same amount. His HP can't exceed the maximum.
II: Once per encounter, a necromancer can temporarily create a zombie or skeleton under his total control as a swift action, if a corpse is available. After some minutes, the undead reverts back to a corpse. The same corpse can be raised again and again, even if it’s been repeatedly destroyed during the encounter.
III: The necromancer can create undead (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, ghasts) from humanoid corpses. He can create as many as he likes, but can only control a number of them equal to his level. Ghouls and ghasts aren't mindless and hate their creator. Every time he creates an undead that exceeds his number of control, randomly one of the others go free. Skeletons and zombies usually wander off while ghouls and ghasts usually turn on their creator.
IV: Once per encounter, a necromancer can completely drain the life of a living creature. As a full round action, he can deal 3d6 con damage (fort save for half, but it's still crippling) to any living being up to 80 feet away and completely heal himself (or any other living creature he touches). If a creature is killed in this manner, its soul is absorbed by the necromancer (or whatever creature caster healed with the stolen life force).

Transmutation
Prereqs: must be a Mage
I: The transmuter can, at will, alter the body of any living creature (including himself) with a touch. He can increase/decrease a physical stat by 4 or increase one by 6 while decreasing another by 4 as a standard action. Unwilling targets need a touch attack and get a fort save to negate. Decreases can't bring an ability lower than 1. The effect lasts as long as transmuter wills. Unwilling targets get a fort save each round to end the effect.
II: Once per encounter, the transmuter can turn himself into a medium sized, normal animal that he's familiar with. He gains physical stats, natural weapons and speed of the animal. Transformation lasts about a few minutes, and transmuter must rest for half an hour between transformations.
III: The transmuter can increase his physical stats by a total of +8 points. At will, he can rearrange these bonus points as a full round action (he may opt not to have any bonus). He may also use stage I ability on top of this but they overlap, don't stack. This is a magical effect and is nullified if the transmuter is incapacitated. (note that an abjurer's area powers influence this, as well as stage I)
IV: Once per encounter, the transmuter can turn any large or smaller sized creature into a little harmless animal (typically a toad). Victim gets fort saves to save himself only after 5 rounds.


So we have eight paths for a budding wizardling. A universalist (beefing up Magical Aptitude) may become another path, but I’m not certain how good that’d be.

Now for some advanced magic feats. Since these can first be taken at 3rd, they increase at 5th and 6th. They don’t conform to standard G6 feats, but it doesn’t have to conform to standard rules. It’s MAGIC after all.


Warden
Prereq: Abjuration
I: The warden’s physical protections (AC and DR) are doubled when used on himself (Abjuration stages I, II and IV).
II: Once per encounter, the warden can seal any medium sized creature in an impenetrable bubble as a full round action. The bubble can’t be moved and nothing can pass through it (including light). It has AC of 10, DR 10/-, SR 25 and 30 HP.
III: At will as a full round action, the warden can banish an outsider from the Prime. Even if the outsider saves, it’s still stunned for 3 rounds.

Summon Master
Prereq: Conjuration
I: Conjuration’s stage II summons more powerful creatures (SM III instead of II).
II: The summon master can forge much stronger ties to an outsider. If his bound outsider is reduced to 0 HP, he can bring him back next day.
III: The summon master’s power is such that he can actually bring powerful outsiders to Prime, instead of mere summoning. He can make a pact with such entities in return for access to Prime.

Oracle
Prereq: Divination
I: Once per encounter, the oracle can decide to maximize all dice he rolls for 3 rounds as a free action.
II: The oracle is completely aware of his surroundings. He automatically detects every creature, every magic effect, can’t be flanked or ganged up on and can’t be sneak attacked in melee.
III: The oracle has permenant true sight and can use augury at will.

Terrorist
Prereq: Enchantment
I: As a standard action, a terrorist can induce supernatural fear in a creature with his gaze (will save immunizes for a day). Target gets further will saves to shake off after 3 rounds.
II: Once per encounter, the terrorist can create visions of unthinkable horrors within a creature’s mind. The creature takes 2d8 wis damage (will save for half). If a creature is reduced to 0 wis, it dies from fright.
III: The terrorist succeeds all intimidate checks unless target is protected against enchantments.

Pyromaniac
Prereq: Evocation
I: All damage the pyromaniac deals is considered fire damage. The weapons he wields, and even his unarmed attack deals fire damage (he can’t ever deal subdual damage).
II: Pyromaniac’s fire mastery is able to overcome fire resistance. He ignores 15 points of DR against fire.
III: Pyromaniac’s love of fire rivals that of a fire elemental. Fire actually heals him instead of damaging.

Hidden
Prereq: Illusion
I: The hidden has managed to overcome diviners. His illusion abilities can’t be detected by divination abilities.
II: Once per encounter, the hidden may grant an ally invisibility identical to stage II illusion ability.
III: The hidden can become invisible (as per stage II illusion) or visible at will. (still can’t be detected by diviners)

Harvester
Prereq: Necromancy
I: The harvester is adept at draining others’ lives. His stage I necromancy is a swift action, instead of full round.
II: The harvester has an aura of death about him. As a full round action once per encounter, he may activate a shroud of negative energy that deals 1d8 damage per round (no save) to all living beings within 10 feet of him. If a creature is killed by the shroud, the harvester gains 1d8 temporary HP. It lasts 5 rounds.
III: The harvester has fully mastered negative energy. The healing he receives from draining is doubled (though damage is unchanged) and can exceed his HP. Such extra HP stay for one day.

Mutant
Prereq: Transmutation
I: The mutant can harden his skin into a carapace at will. As a move action, he may increase his AC by 6 or gain DR 3/-. He can morph back to normal as a swift action.
II: The mutant can warp his hands into claws and his mouth to a muzzle (claws deal 1d8+str and bite 1d10+str) at will as a move action. He may morph back to normal as a move action.
III: The mutant can arrange his physical stats as he wishes. He may redistribute the total of his physical stats into str, dex and con (transmutation III ability can be incorporated to get up to +8 to total, but not transmutation I). He can’t have any stat lower than 5 or higher than 30. The transformation takes five minutes to complete, but only one full round to end it and change back. It lasts for a day otherwise.


There’s room for many more advanced magic feats, which are quite PrCish. In fact, advanced magic feats can replace wizardly PrCs the way it is here. They become available at 3rd, and a second can be taken at 5th. Wizardly PrCs would do nothing else but grant 5 more abilities (if taken fully) plus normal mage progression anyway.
...

Is the main approach acceptable? We can work out crunchety details of this ability or that stage. I’d like feedback on the main idea of basic and advanced feats.

[Lady Tialait]

I like it, but I think they should still keep with the feat structure. If you havn't noticed I've focused more on Divine here lately. With that in mind, Here is a Divine Specialist for G6.


The Priest
Hit Points: 6

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-1: The Priest
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2| True Believer, Bonus TB Feat

2nd|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+3| Divine Servant, Show of Faith 1/encounter

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3| Bonus TB Feat, Bonus TB Feat

4th|
+2|
+2|
+1|
+4|Improved Divine Servant, Show of Faith 2/encounter

5th|
+2|
+2|
+1|
+4| Bonus TB Feat, Bonus TB Feat

6th|
+3|
+3|
+2|
+5| Paragon (Divine Champion), Show of Faith 3/encounter[/table]



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Grants simple weapon proficiency.
Plus, your choice of 5 martial weapons.

True Believer: You gain True Believer as a bonus feat, if you already have True Believer you may choose any feat with True Believer as a prerequisite.

Bonus TB Feat You may take a True Believer feat as a bonus feat.


Show of Faith: 1/encounter you may make a battle cry, this cry gives all allies within 60ft. a +1 to their attack and damage rolls. In addition, a bonus on their will saves equal to your Priest Level. At thrid and sixth level you gain another use per day of this ability.

Divine Servent: Choose Skills equal to your Wisdom Modifier, you may treat these as class skills in addition you gain a bonus equal to your priest level when using these skills. At level 4 you may either choose another group of skills or double your bonus on the skills you have chosen.

Paragon (Divine Champion): At sixth level a character gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. You gain an aura of protection from your deity, you may 1/encounter produce two of your TB feats 1/encounter abilities at the same time. This takes a full round action.




Any questions?

[Raroy]

So, if you take true believer as a starting feat, you get another three feats at level one? Plus four bounes feats added in with normal feats gained would mean that the priest would gain eleven feats over six levels. Take that as you will.

[Sho]

The Druid
Hit Points: 5

Skill Points at each level: 4 + INT

{TABLE=HEAD]Class Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Animal Companion, Wild Empathy
2nd|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+3|(Nature Magic Feat) Wild Shape 1/Encounter (Animal)
3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|(Advanced Magic Feat) Naturefont
4th|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+4|(Nature Magic Feat) Wild Shape 2/Encounter (Large/Tiny)
5th|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+4|(Advanced Magic Feat) Improved Naturefont
6th|
+4/+1|
+3|
+2|
+5|Paragon (One with Nature), Wild Shape 3/Encounter (Plant)[/TABLE]

[= Optional Spellcasting =]
{TABLE=HEAD]Class Level|Spells Prepared|Spells Known|Highest Spell Level
1st|
3|
3|1st
2nd|
4|
4|2nd
3rd|
5|
6|2nd
4th|
6|
7|3rd
5th|
7|
9|3rd
6th|
8|
10|4th[/TABLE]

Animal Companion: At 1st level, the druid gains an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures may be added to the druid’s list of options: manta ray, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the druid on his adventures as appropriate for its kind.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A druid can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The druid rolls 1d20 and adds her druid level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

Wild Shape (Su): At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 2 rounds per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Shaping into a new creature grants the druid a renewed supply of hit points, but when the druid reverts back to her normal form, she must make a fortitude save (DC 15) or become fatigued. The druid retains any hit points she had before she wild shaped. If the druid would wild shape while fatigued, then when she reverts to her normal form, she must make the same fortitude save or become exhausted. Any further strenuous action forces the druid to become unconscious.

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

A druid can use this ability more times per encounter at 4th and 6th levels, as noted on Table: The Druid. In addition, she gains the ability to take the shape of Large and Tiny animals at 4th level and take the shape of Plant creatures at 6th level with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t use this ability to take the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.)

Naturefont (Ex): The druid's presence inspires growth wherever she dwells, and she becomes its nurturer. At 3rd level, the druid can speak with animals and plants as if they spoke common (or any other language the druid knows). Additionally, any and all creatures with Intelligence scores lower than 3 begin with an attitude one step friendlier when encountering the druid.

At 5th level, the druid can affect animals and creatures with Intelligence scores lower than 3 as if she had used the Suggestion spell.

Paragon (One with Nature): At 6th level, the druid has become an aspect of nature herself. She gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of her choice. Additionally, times per day equal to her Wisdom Modifier, the druid can call on the aid of nature itself, summoning 1d4+1 Medium or Small creatures who aid her in any encounter or perhaps grant their abilities as a guide or leverage for the druid.

* * * * *

Modified spellcasting or magical feat tree options in parentheses are given.

[Raroy]

Oh my, a fourth level spell? Reincarnations sounds like fun. The spell progression will also allow creative uses for lower level spells that may break the economy. That optional spell casting just seems like trouble.

This brings up a question, what happens when you die in G6? Are you dead forever or, could you come back someway. If you want to keep with the low power level, character just might die and never come back.

[Sho]

I fail to see the "break" in the "economy" via low level spells.

If anything, I've only ever seen the break made with higher level spells in a higher level game (12+ level).

~Edit~
Consider the fact, too, that G6 PCs have above average HPs, above average Saves, and excellent class features that are above any normal E6 PC.

I still see no breakage. I'd dare say Melees are still on terms with Casters in this variant.

[Raroy]

I don't know, I've heard stories. I just fear higher level magic.

[Lady Tialait]

Yes, with the Priest you gain alot of specific feats, but it's a narrow list, I could give them spellcasting, but that his how we got CoDzilla, And they have sub-par other abilities. I could take away some of the feats of the preist and give them more sub-par abilies, but that would probbly make them weaker. Without the tons of feats there final paragon is useless. Then again, that is why i don't like the casters as base classes. More, PrCs with enhancers. The Druid seems a bit more then this system can take. Wildshape is VERY powerful. Your giving it to them earlier. A bit nerfed, but not really.

[Raroy]

Well, I guess it hides the feeling of being a heal bot. Sure, lots of buffing options for the priest!

Wild shape might need a HD restriction. Second level could get pretty bad, but with a hit die restriction what is the druid going to turn into? A cat?

[Lady Tialait]

Well, I guess it hides the feeling of being a heal bot. Sure, lots of buffing options for the priest!

Wild shape might need a HD restriction. Second level could get pretty bad, but with a hit die restriction what is the druid going to turn into? A cat?

Fear the kitten.... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76770)


I agree on the HD restriction.

I'm thinking of changing up the preist, and giving their Secondary to Bonus Feat, and the Regular to some other stuff. I like the show of faith, but it is sub-par really, and so is their Paragon.

[Raroy]

Yes the priest is full of sub par. Using a ridiculous amount of feats could only cover it up so much. But, maybe that is the priest's role. To be sub-par-stand-in-the-back-guy,

I'm going to come up with some fluff. It's going to be embarrassingly cheesy, but I'll try.

[Lady Tialait]

Follow the Mantra

"Cheese will Please"



and...Feat!


Justicar
Prerequisite: True Believer
Benefit
Stage I: You may use Detect Alignment at will. In addition, if you take 1 minuet you may loose this ability for 24 for the use of Detect Lies once.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may use a smite chaos attack, gaining +4 on the attack roll, and your cha modifier as extra damage. If this attack is aimed at a non-chaotic creature, it deals no damage.
Stage III: You gain the effect of Urban Tracking (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#urbanTracking)
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may produce a hold person effect, the will save is 12+Cha Mod. CL equal to your class levels.

[Pronounceable]

Tialait's priest above is weak. Show of Faith would be better off as a permenant aura. Divine Servant is not bad, but Divine Champion is almost worthless (its actual worth depends too much on previous powers) as a capstone.

Sho's druid is... Hmm. Wildshape is straight out of DnD, it needs nerfing. For Wild Empathy, do we even have attitudes in G6? Naturefont is very good, as long as DM treats animals and plants as they are, and not just ordinary people who just happened to born in a nonhumanoid body. Capstone is a bit on the weaker side. That optional spellcasting is a no. Thar be CoDzillas.

On death and beyond: I assume dead is dead in G6. Otherwise it wouldn't be gritty.

...
Priest/cleric class is, in and of itself, a pitfall. You can't expect the priests of a warmonger goddess of tyranny and a benevolent god of domestic affairs to be basically the same (unless you're playing regular DnD). Some sort of class with extremely generic abilities can be whipped up, but there's gotta be substantial differences between clergies. And even clerics of the same deity may differ substantially depending on which aspects of their deity they deem important.

A very recent bit of creativity hit me again as I was writing that. Deities have certain aspects, represented by domains. Clerics choose one/some of these domains, simulating their devotion to certain aspects of their deities. Therefore, we can have Domain Feats, which will be taken by True Believers. As cleric levels up, his devotion increases, allowing him to embrace further tenets of faith represented by extra Domain feats. More powerful deities will have more domains.

How would that work out as a base for clergies?

[Lady Tialait]

Tialait's priest above is weak. Show of Faith would be better off as a permenant aura. Divine Servant is not bad, but Divine Champion is almost worthless (its actual worth depends too much on previous powers) as a capstone.

Sho's druid is... Hmm. Wildshape is straight out of DnD, it needs nerfing. For Wild Empathy, do we even have attitudes in G6? Naturefont is very good, as long as DM treats animals and plants as they are, and not just ordinary people who just happened to born in a nonhumanoid body. Capstone is a bit on the weaker side. That optional spellcasting is a no. Thar be CoDzillas.

On death and beyond: I assume dead is dead in G6. Otherwise it wouldn't be gritty.

...
Priest/cleric class is, in and of itself, a pitfall. You can't expect the priests of a warmonger goddess of tyranny and a benevolent god of domestic affairs to be basically the same (unless you're playing regular DnD). Some sort of class with extremely generic abilities can be whipped up, but there's gotta be substantial differences between clergies. And even clerics of the same deity may differ substantially depending on which aspects of their deity they deem important.

A very recent bit of creativity hit me again as I was writing that. Deities have certain aspects, represented by domains. Clerics choose one/some of these domains, simulating their devotion to certain aspects of their deities. Therefore, we can have Domain Feats, which will be taken by True Believers. As cleric levels up, his devotion increases, allowing him to embrace further tenets of faith represented by extra Domain feats. More powerful deities will have more domains.

How would that work out as a base for clergies?

That is basicly my Preist Class but, with the 'worthless' abilities, They are sub-par, but that is the point. Domain Feats are what i've been working on....but basically I've been hearing the response from the Priest is "It has sub-par abilities, and too many feats. Maybe if we give it only one type of feat, like you did, and perhaps change the abilities to par it would be closer to what I like" But, the reason for the sub-par abilities is you will have 11 feats by level 6, that is 11! not to say there is something wrong with that. But, if you get 11 feats, you don't really need on-par class features, something to fill the space will be alright. I think the only part that isn't sub-par would be Divine Champion, that will allow basically a quickened TB feat. That is powerful, and nobody else can do it.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

A Note from the Djinn: Due to some unforseen circumstances involving intensive summer tutoring in Greek (which the Djinn is terrible at), a full-time job, household chores, and the recent death of an old family friend, the Djinn will have to postpone development on G6 for an unforeseen period of time (hopefully no more than a few weeks, tops). Development just takes to much time out of my life at the moment.

This is NOT to say it will not continue. In fact, it is one of my TOP priorites...that don't involve my actual life. So keep an eye on the forums...G6 will return, as soon as things settle back down.

My apologies for those waiting to see this finished. Hopefully when I get this back I'll have more done and be ready, or at least almost ready, to playtest it. In the meantime, if potential playtesters would like to speak up with some general idea of what they'd like to play (so I know what needs to get done when I get back), they are welcome to do so. I'd say first-come-first-served, but that's probably not true.

What I'm looking for are people with a good sense of game balance and some RPG experience. A beginner or two and a power gamer or two wouldn't be bad, as I need to know the ease of play of the system and any game-breaking combos that need to be fixed. Aside from that, those who have helped the project will definitely be considered, as well as anyone who seems to me like a good candidate for a playtest.

Consider sign-ups officially open. PM me, please, so I don't have to delve through this thread picking out those interested. It may be a month or more before the system is finished (even if, as I suspect, I'm back to work on it sooner), but I want to know who is interested and what they'd like to play (even if it requires a new prestige class or base class to pull off).

-The Djinn

[Lady Tialait]

Awww, sorry to hear that Djinn, (the death that is). Hope you enjoy the whole of the job/house/greek....stuff.....


But, even without the leader for now I'll keep developing, Djinn's word if final but it won't stop me from showing what I have to show. I think that is a good idea for everone to keep going.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Thanks.

Anyway, by all means continue. When I return (hopefully with the new format), we'll have, at worst, two functioning systems of slightly differing complexity (as I'll admit that G6 as it is currently does function...possibly better than my revision, but I'll never know unless I try it).

[Lady Tialait]

Yay! more work!...*pray* Alright, now I need to think of another thing...hmm


I was thinking maybe the Priest could be a PrC, that you have to get as your 4th level.



The Priest
Hit Points: 6

Prerequisites True Believer
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: N/A
Feats: At least 2 Feats that have True Believer as Prerequisites.

Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int Modifier

Table 3-1: The Priest
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+1|
+0|
+1| Bonus TB Feat, Show of Faith 1/encounter

2nd|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2| Divine Servant, Bonus TB Feat

3rd|
+2|
+2|
+1|
+2| Paragon (Divine Champion), Show of Faith 2/encounter[/table]


Show of Faith: 1/encounter you may make a battle cry, this cry gives all allies within 60ft. a +1 to their attack and damage rolls. In addition, a bonus on their will saves equal to your Priest Level. You gain another use of this at 3rd.

Divine Servant: Choose Skills equal to your Wisdom Modifier, you may treat these as class skills in addition you gain a bonus equal to your priest level when using these skills.

Paragon (Divine Champion): At third level a character gains a +1 bonus to any two ability scores of his choice. You gain an aura of protection from your deity, you may 1/encounter produce two of your TB feats 1/encounter abilities at the same time. This takes a full round action.


I think this balances a bit better. But I may be wrong. I think casters should be PrCs. Extra Feats, and all that stuff. It balances better. This way they get 2 bonus 'Domains'. Whachathink?

[Raroy]

How would you cast at the begging of the game? Very ineffectively?

I just had an idea myself. Instead of having Flaming Fist as a Prc, I could have it as a feat. Yes, different feats for different fighting styles. I've already got Cold Fist and Sun Fury Palm in the works. Oh and then theres Peacock Style, Sky Dragon's Pounce, Willow's grasp....ect. Now that I announced a project for myself, it's time for me to get real lazy and procrastinate!

[Lady Tialait]

Even with this PrC they don't 'cast' they use feats. I like the whole 'spells as feats' effect. No real spells, just magical feats. The Wizard/Mage would have alot of them, so would the Priest/Cleric. The feeling will have a dark ages feel to it, you can change that as you see fit. But, magic will feel exotic, casts give it a humdrum feeling to it. Feats are abilities that took training to do, or where inherited from your innate abilitys. Spells either come from learning them (RAW Wizard) Or, having them given to you by your heiratage (RAW Sorereror) Then, you can come apon magic by pure faith (Cleric...raw...yeah). Wizards in pre-D&D where old and powerful beyond normal men. But, a warrior was powerful too. So, I say give them the same power source mechanically, but the flavor is different. A general feat is aspects of training. A Magical Training feat comes from studing or a connection to Arcane magic. A True Believer Feat comes from your connection to your beliefs. It all seems better that way. And I like it.....oh...and FEAT


Drunken Mastery
Prerequisite: Chi Magic
Benefit:
Stage I: Your Dodge AC increases by +1 from your bobbing and weaving as if you where drunk.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may use any mundane item other then a weapon, this attack deals 4D6 subdue damage.
Stage III: You do not loose your Dex to AC even when Flat-Footed, this negates sneak attacks. Only when you unconsciousness are you deaned your dex.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may use 1 pint of alcohol and a source of fire, to produce a breath weapon, it deals 6D6 damage. Ref save is 12+wisdom Modifier.


There is a start for you :smalltongue:

[Dark-Penance]

Well, if you just simply need to see what might push the power envelope, I'll throw out one thing that a friend of mine and I played around with the first day I found this thread.

A Barbarian 3/Archer 3 with 16 Strength and 16 Dexterity to begin with (20 of the 28 points - enough to bring the remaining stats all to 10 if desired to negate any penalties) can get a Composite Longbow. Use a composite longbow to gain +6 to damage because the Archer adds his or her Dexterity modifier to damage with ranged weapons. Now, this character adds his points from levels to Dexterity and Strength (17, 17) and adds the two +1 bonuses from Archer 3 to those same scores (18, 18). He or she obtains two +2 items for those ability scores (20, 20). Now, this character adds 10 damage to each hit.

With Enlarge Person (on a magic item as a continuous effect or from a scroll or from a party wizard or something), the weapon increases from 1d8 to 2d6 damage and Strength increases again (20, 22). This gives a +11 bonus to damage and a base weapon damage of 2d6.

Your average weapon damage is 7 (18 damage total).
That's doubled for 36 damage (automatic hit). This can be done twice per encounter. My friend and I actually got this up to 90 damage somehow, but I closed our conversation since it was a few days ago.

Oh, if you add in a weapon one size larger than normal (or use Monkey Grip - but we haven't seen a feat conversion for it, so let's assume the former), you deal 3d6 instead of 2d6 (another 3.5 damage or 7 damage after doubling). The cost is -4 to attack, but these attacks automatically hit. This brings damage up to 39.5 (79 damage since you can use it twice).

It's not overwhelming in most circumstances, but an automatic hit is pretty impressive.


I think whether or not the system turns out to be "broken" depends more on which magic items are allowed, et cetera. Weapons that multiply damage on a charge should specifically be scrutinized since stacking multipliers in E6 allow charge-based characters to deal over 500 damage when they want to.

[Raroy]

In G6, your not going to find +2 items or an enlarge person item. I think the ability meant to say only dex. If it didn't, it should.

Why would a barbarian become an archer anyway? "Grr, I shall give up my old ways and pick up a noble weapon, such as a bow.....Grr." I don't think anyone with common sense would wield a large weapon. Anyway, stop trying to break the system. That's not what's this about. G6 is about Wuxia style monk's doing crazy things.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Anyway, stop trying to break the system. That's not what's this about. G6 is about Wuxia style monk's doing crazy things.

Huh? I specifically asked for people to point out things like that. Helps me fix them when the time comes. Thanks for that one Dark-Penance...I'll keep an eye on it.

Barbarians wielding bows? Good for them. I want to break the traditional stereotypes...hence my class format revision to allow for more customization. You want a barbarian archer? Awesome! Go for it! It should be able to be done, and done well. Want a martially oriented Rogue? Done. Anything else? Done.

Also, with regards to Wuxia monks...they're actually leaning towards the super-hero section of D&D that G6 is trying to avoid. That said, I don't mind one or two crazy maneuvers, but outright supernatural abilities definitely aren't in line. If a person could conceivably do it, fine...but the things found in, say, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon aren't really what I'm aiming for. If you want them for your personal use, I can't fault that, but I'm aiming to tone down the supernatural as much as possible (obvious exception for magic here, but still...).


Feat:
Iron Mountain (Monk's only)
Benefit:
Stage I: You may make a Fortitude save (DC 15 -wis mod +damage taken) to halve damage taken from an attack. Character gains Fortitude +2
Stage II: You gain Light armory Proficiency. Fortitude +2
Stage III: You gain Medium armor Proficiency. The character may make a Fortitude save (DC 20 -wis mod +damage taken) to negate any damage done.
Stage IV: You gain Heavy Armor Proficiency. Fortitude +2

There is a feat format, you know. Stage I and III are passive abilities, Stage II and IV are 1/encounter abilities. Also, this feat grants a +6 bonus to Fortitude. That's INSANE. More than you'll ever get from your CLASS. +1 is about the highest I think is reasonable to grant...and even that is a good benefit over just 6 levels. Finally...a way to ignore ALL damage? Or even halve damage? FOREVER?

This isn't meant to sound harsh and rude. That's just my critiquing style, and I can't help that. I'm a sarcastic bastard. But it's nothing against you. After all, as a general rule your comments so far have been pretty good at pointing out things and giving suggestions, but this is a little over the top for the G6 power level. Nothing personal. It needs some serious alteration to fit with the system. Just tone it down significantly and it should be fine.

-The Djinn

[Raroy]

I know. I was working on fixing this up. OOh! I forgot, the limit on ability use. And patterns too..... hehe..... So, that's why i used stupid high fort bonuses to compensate for something missing. Ah! I think I got something....Drat, have to go to sleep now. I'll erase it and repost. Note to self, details are needed.

At a base level the class was made to provide a unmovable person, much like a class someone else posted. That seems proper right? Or maybe all my ideas are improper for this setting? Maybe I shouldn't even help here. Eh, I'll deal with it tomorrow.

[Lady Tialait]

Djinn you came off a little harsh there, but it's okay. You apligized...As for the Iron Mountain, it doesn't make much sense, plus it's a little over powered.

Let's try something differnt with it..Shall we?


Iron Mountain
Prerequisite: Chi Magic
Benefit:
Stage I: You may use up to Medium armor and retain your monk abilities, you also gain profiency in both light and medium armor.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may use a move action to gain +4 to fortitude saves. This lasts till the beginning of your next turn.
Stage III: You may use fortitude save in the place of a reflex save.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may attempt a fortitude save to take 1/2 damage. On any physical attack, this save is DC 10 + damage taken.


That sounds a little more balanced. As for peaple breaking the game, I love it. Keep it up I want to see more, how we to fix the problem without knowing where it is? Thanks.

[Raroy]

Of course, much better. All I ever get is unrefined ideas that I throw without a second thought. You know, I don't think I'm quite cut out for this. I think I'll just drop out know.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

...:smalleek:

I hope that wasn't because of my rather caustic critique. As I said, don't mind me--I don't mean any of it half as harshly as it seems (tone of voice is impossible to convey in this medium).

If you're having problems with finishing up ideas but you find it fun to come up with them, all you need is a little practice. That's why this community is here. If you need a hand, you've got several hundred people ready to offer one. And then, after a little bit, you won't need that hand any more. :smallbiggrin:

[Lady Tialait]

Raroy, if you put stuff out, it might be gold, it might be lead, Who knows? But, if you want to help HELP I could use it. The only way to assist on this project is to imput things and assist, i'm sure alot of the stuff i've made looks too powerful, or as you saw with the priest, both overpowered and underpowered...at the same time.

Speaking of Overpower and Underpower


Jiu-Jitsu
Prerequisite: -
Benefit:
Stage I: You may attempt a grapple check without invoking an attack of opportunity. In addition, you gain a +4 bonus on grapple checks.
Stage II: 1/encounter you can 'throw' a creature you have in a grapple. This is a full-round action and pushes the target up to 20ft away. If they land in a occupied square you may attempt an attack roll with a -4, if you hit it deals 2D6 damage and leave both prone.
Stage III: When in a grapple you preform all attack normally, In addition you may take a standard action if your opponent provokes an AoO during a grapple.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may attempt an attack while in a grapple that deals subdue damage equal three times your regular damage on an attack.


aaaand as requested...

Monkey Grip
Prerequisite:
Benefit:
Stage I: You may wield a weapon one size category larger then your own without penalty. ( that is how it's worded in my house ruled game anyway)
Stage II: 1/encounter if two enemies stand next to you, you may attempt to swing at both with the same attack. This attack takes a full round action make a single attack roll and damage roll. This counts for both enemies.
Stage III: You gain +8 on all str check and skills based in str.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may attempt a 'big swing' attack, this causes a shock wave. . The shock wave affects only creatures standing on the ground within the 20 ft. area. Creatures that fail their saves are thrown to the ground, become prone, and take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. The ref save DC is 11 + Str Modifier. This may only be used when you are wielding a weapon at least one size category larger then yourself.


Now THAT feels like a guy with a big sword to me. Maybe even Cloud Strife..... Whatchathink?

[Ceiling009]

I kinda like how the G6 systems is both low level, but can facilitate what would seem to be high level (a lot of comic books, anime, and the like) pretty well, from what I've read. Cause even within the 6 levels, or so, player characters really have that feel of being something special; and those at the end of levels, are really something.

[Lady Tialait]

Hehe, I'm sure Djinn was going for that. If not, we've mutated it into something neato.

[Pronounceable]

My condolences Djinn. Hope you'll be fine...

...
That Priest PrC is still woefully weak. Or rather, has woefully weak combat abilities. If he worships a pro-battle deity, it would've granted him powerful abilities. If it's a con-battle deity, why grant battle abilities at all? Of course, G6 format of encounter powers seem to force us to give everyone combat abilities. But keep in mind, encounter abilities are just feats that require some time (ten minutes, half an hour, an hour, something longer than a standard combat takes) before they can be done again.

So what does that mean? Give priests encounter powers that befits (fluffily) a devoted servant of a deity (note I have done similar stuff to my magic schools).

Commune: Once per encounter, a priest may commune with his deity (actually contact will probably be with the solar secretary) to ask a specific question pertaining to what he should be doing to serve the deity's purposes best. The ability takes a full round of concentration, during which the priest is flat footed.

Supplication (capstone): Once per encounter, a priest may pray to request assistance from his deity. The deity usually (not always) sends a powerful outsider in its service to assist the priest in some way fitting the dogma of the deity to the best of its capacity (a con-battle deity's representative wouldn't fight, while a pro-battle deity wouldn't even send anyone to a noncombat situation). This is a swift action, and the outsider arrives within 1d4 rounds (but if the priest is slain during this interval, the outsider won't come). If the prayer is ignored by the deity (request deemed unsuitable for whatever reason), ability is spent. Sometimes instead of an outsider, a miracle (tailored to specifics of the situation and deity's nature) can occur.


With these instead of SoF and DC, plus a couple domain (TB) feats, the priest is a channel to certain a deity, instead of an underpowered bag of feats.

You may have noticed that my mage somewhere above is quite weak at 1st level having no school access. A similar arrangement may be made for priests, except they'd get two domain feats right away. Depending on their domains, two of them can work like entirely different classes. No longer will a cleric of Hera be identical to a cleric of Quetzelcouatl. The beginning choices of a priest will become all important, as TB feats acquired futher down the line will not increase to stage IV.
...
And while we're here:
War
Prereqs: True Believer
I: The priest gains +2 to hit and damage with his deity's favored weapon. He also gains all armor and shield proficiencies.
II: 1/encounter, the priest can make a battlecry that rallies his allies. All allies hearing it gain +1 to hit, damage and all saves plus a +2 AC. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to priest's level.
III: The priest gains fighter BAB.
IV: 1/encounter, the priest can smite an enemy in his god's name. He gains +10 to attack and damage for a single melee attack. The attack ignores all DR and deals holy damage. If misses, the ability is not spent.

Travel
Prereqs: TB
I: The priest gains +10' to his speed. He also treats climb, ride, survival, swim and tumble as class skills.
II: 1/encounter, the priest may haste himself.
III: The priest is constantly under the effects of freedom of movement.
IV: 1/encounter, the priest can use dimension door.
...

Stop the press! We have grapple? That works as it's in DnD? Surely not... But if we do, that grapple feat is good, except for the name. Though 2d6 for a throw seems excessively damaging, being equal to a greatsword and all.

But that Monkey Grip is... Enough to make me use a stupid smiley :smalleek: Not mentioning its far too anime feeling, you're aware that +8 to str checks effectively mean a +16 to STRENGTH? Did I mention its too anime feeling? And Cloud is gay. So is Squall. (sorry, but I had to say that).

[Lady Tialait]

What about Monkey Grip doesn't feel anime anyway....come on now...

As for the Grappleing Feat, 2D6 and prone...for a 3rd level ability...your right...2D6 is soooo powerful....*coughcoughcough* Yeah right.....


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/exemplar_gallery/108507.jpg

This picture is RIGHT out of a Manga just...so ya know...


Oh, and just so you know, the priest would be combat effective, if you take in account that there are going to be HUGE numbers of feats. I think the Druid should be a specialist Priest that takes the 'Domains' of natural such and such. You'll be surprised how well it ends up working. But, the only way to really show off it so play test. So, after we have a large base of TB feats, we decide how powerful the priest is. After all, the current fighter doesn't even get feats like the priest.



Edit: Oh, and btw, your post both calls a class that depends on feats weak, and calls a feat over powered. Personally, if you give them class features, you have to give the same to each. Your commune is acually weaker then my ability, and you Supplication is either overpowered, or underpowered, depending on how a DM feels at a given moment. That isn't any better then what mine is.

My Show of faith isn't perfect, a peaceful cleric needs protection non-the-less. If it was just 'A show of your Dogma' it would fit you better, as for everything else, it works out fairly good. After all, you gain helpful abilities, and you gain the ability to assist your fellow man on the party. And the Show of Faith applies to you. So, if you have True Believer (A powerful feat to start with) and Fire, War, and Travel, aaaand are level 3 of this class, you can go supernova. Very nicely. Use your War Smite And Travel Dimension Door. Oooor you can use your Travel Haste and your Fire Stage VI, then In melee perform an attack. Because your a Monk to have made it to this level, the Priest PrC isn't hard to get. So now you have effectively blown up your opponent, plus your harder to kill. Then next round you have your War smite left, and you can deal extra fire damage, oh look you have an extra standard.

You see, the Paragon I have is not problematic...but what if you are a Peacful Preist?.....well....first Travel (I like it...good worth there), Faithful Healing, and Protection. First round, activate your haste (no reason not to). Second round, if you need to take half damage for someone. Third, lather rinse repeat. If you or anyone else needs healing apply stage II healing and Stage IV at the same time. See? It works out. Your awesome Healbot special. If you really enjoy that.....well. enjoy.

A Priest who arbores combat is not a big thing on the list here, but it does exist.

Another thing, the +6 is for Str checks and Skill checks, there is better. As a first level spell. And it looks like there may very well be 'scrolls' and such in this system...no matter how much I don't like the idea.

[Raroy]

It's not you, it's me. Seriously, it's not you. I mean it! I was just bandwagon hopping and I found a place to stay. I'm found out so now it's time to hit the road again. Worry not for me, for I am just a wanderer. Where I'll stop in this grand serires of tubes? Heh, even god doesn't know that.

I'm almost done with this playground. Almost.

[Pronounceable]

That guy wouldn't know how to spell gritty...
...
I didn't say 2d6 is too strong. It's just, how does a throw like that deal such damage? You're not slamming him to the floor, you're flinging him away...

But now that I've read it again, I realize that happens when you throw him *into* someone else. I just assumed it was like Ryu's throw (you Street Fighty, you) that dealt damage on hitting the ground. Right, carry on...
...
A druid is actually a priest. So that sort of thing would go very well. And that brings up another point. We're gonna need a truckload of TB feats of all flavors.
...
To what did I say overpowered?

And you're right, class abilities should be the same for all priests. Which is my single biggest gripe. How generic an ability can we come up with that will not contradict any deity's dogma under any circumstances? I would as soon make a priest/cleric class that has NO unique encounter abilities and many TB feats. But as G6 gives all classes some unique powers, this is not possible.

I made those two on merits of fluff alone, with nearly no regard to crunchety applications. That's as generic as I could whip up on short notice. Feel free to change them.
...
SoF is generic, but not that generic. A deity that REALLY abhors combat would not even want its cleric in the vicinity of a battle. Therefore wouldn't let them have SoF. Granted, that sort of deity wouldn't be worshipped by (most to all) PCs and NPCs that'd see gameplay (or at least combat). But handwaving that small inconsistency away is the beginning of one-size-worships-all clerics of DnD. Or maybe I'm obsessed.

Divine Champion is a good ability. But it's not capstone material cos it can't stand on its own legs. Though that is an opinion and your mileage may vary.
...
And since we won't possibly have enough

Trickery
Prereqs: TB
I: You may treat bluff, disguise, escape artist, forgery, hide, move silently, open lock and sleight of hand as class skills.
II: 1/encounter, you may fade out. People will see and hear you, but will not register your existence unless they make a will save (DC 10+level+wis). Even attacking in melee will not let them notice you, but will grant a new save with +5 bonus. Once saved, they can notice you normally. This is not an illusion of any kind, but a mind affecting divine power. It lasts 10 rounds. This is a free action.
III: You can only be detected by mundane senses (you can still hide and move silently to achieve nondetection). In addition to divination immunity, this means you don't exist to creatures that don't have conventional senses (like constructs and mindless undead). They won't react to you in any way. You can't turn this off.
IV: 1/encounter, you may create a false image of yourself as a swift action. The image is semi sentient, and will act as if it's really you. Its abilities are identical to yours but have half HP and deals half damage. It has no encounter powers. It lasts until destroyed (or one hour). (note that both II and IV can be activated at the same time)

Death
Prereqs: TB
I: You are fearless. No effect can shake, frighten or panic you. Intimidate attempts are also at -10.
II: 1/encounter, you may radiate the chill of death. Everyone within 30' of you (including allies) is shaken for the rest of the encounter (no save). This is a mind affecting ability.
III: You gain an aura of death. All living beings within 10' of you feel very uncomfortable (-2 to all mental skill rolls). Undead are also repulsed. Mindless undead will not approach you, while sentient udead will be nauseated (even if they may technically be immune to it) within 10' of you. They will also recognize you as a priest to death on sight.
IV: 1/encounter, you may kill a living creature with a touch (will OR fort save negates, your choice). When used on undead, this ability will instantly destroy them (no save).

[Dark-Penance]

Why would a barbarian become an archer anyway? "Grr, I shall give up my old ways and pick up a noble weapon, such as a bow.....Grr."

Rambo?

Anyway, I was, as Djinn pointed out, doing exactly what he asked. I intend to continue to do that because it's where my brain has the most enjoyment in terms of character-building (optimization problems).

[tarkisflux]

I'm not sure I like the idea of casters as PrCs, but since you've all put in much more than I have I'm withholding judgement until a complete picture comes out...

That said, I don't see why you both think that all priests should have the same generic class powers. I agree that all priests of the same religion should, but that's not the same thing. DIT's class paths already suggest that even members of the same class should be able to select different abilities and foci, why not do the same thing for clerics? Instead of allowing them to select their path though, why not do different things for different deities?

Show of Faith could be a great way to further differentiate clerics of different religions. Maybe the fire god gives fire resist 10 to you and all allies for 1 round, the healing god gives you a self-centered healing burst, or the sneak god gives you invis or sneak attack for your next hit. The list would go on and on, and would easily allow for/include campaign specific flavor. A generic buff like this one might be more useful in general, but it's certainly not flavorful, and probably only fitting for a cleric of a pantheon (like the Sov Host in Eberron).

Divine servant isn't bad, but it duplicates what several of the TB feats already do with skills. And without direction or limits, you could easily get skill choices that don't make any sense (nature follower with UMD and tumble for example). Since clerics are hardly skill monkeys, I don't really see the point. Commune might be a better call, but as a 1/hour or even 1/day ability. Maybe even boost it into a useable divination regarding anything in the deity's portfolio to make it more attractive. There's been a big focus on combat abilities, but with all of the TB feats they'll be picking up I think they can afford a non-com power.

I think Divine Champion works better than Supplication as a capstone. Divine Champion lets the priest make better use of the skills they already have, insead of adding in a new one that might not have any other relevance to the class. The 'aura of protection' was a bit fuzzy though, and it would be helpful if that was spelled out a bit more clearly. The whole summon outsider ability would make a nice feat chain though.

[Pronounceable]

That's because a class is, by definition, something that gives every member a set of core abilities. By making a base class called priest/cleric, we must give all of them a couple of common abilities. It's paths and/or feats that serve to differentiate members of a class. We could go with Priest of X, Cleric of Y type PrCs (or even base classes) but that's something I wouldn't welcome as well. Among other things, it'd mean a lot more work.

Plus, I don't agree that priests of the same religion should have same abilities. No two clerics need be the same, unless they prioritize the same aspects of their religion.

[Lady Tialait]

I'm not sure I like the idea of casters as PrCs, but since you've all put in much more than I have I'm withholding judgement until a complete picture comes out...

Casting is being done with feats, anyone can take them. When you specialize in something that is a PrC...makes sense to me.



That said, I don't see why you both think that all priests should have the same generic class powers. I agree that all priests of the same religion should, but that's not the same thing. DIT's class paths already suggest that even members of the same class should be able to select different abilities and foci, why not do the same thing for clerics? Instead of allowing them to select their path though, why not do different things for different deities?

I personally didn't like the layout that Djinn came out with for the different internal class abilities, it is flavorful, but A LOT of work. You basically have to make 3 to 6 (Djinn is going for 10) classes in one. I will agree it gives flavor, but, do you really expect me to look at my Deity list and make a class for each and every one of those? What about a Cleric of a Cause? Please, tell me how you would do a cleric of a cause, maybe a cause of peace.



Show of Faith could be a great way to further differentiate clerics of different religions. Maybe the fire god gives fire resist 10 to you and all allies for 1 round, the healing god gives you a self-centered healing burst, or the sneak god gives you invis or sneak attack for your next hit. The list would go on and on, and would easily allow for/include campaign specific flavor. A generic buff like this one might be more useful in general, but it's certainly not flavorful, and probably only fitting for a cleric of a pantheon (like the Sov Host in Eberron).

Basically, the reason they have the bonus TB feats is the customization, i think that will make it so no two priests are the same. After all with Faithful Fire, you gain fire resistance, and two different attacks.


Divine servant isn't bad, but it duplicates what several of the TB feats already do with skills. And without direction or limits, you could easily get skill choices that don't make any sense (nature follower with UMD and tumble for example). Since clerics are hardly skill monkeys, I don't really see the point. Commune might be a better call, but as a 1/hour or even 1/day ability. Maybe even boost it into a useable divination regarding anything in the deity's portfolio to make it more attractive. There's been a big focus on combat abilities, but with all of the TB feats they'll be picking up I think they can afford a non-com power.

Your right, someone could take whatever skills they chose, and I wouldn't blame them. But! If someone is flavor contain would they choose certain skills?

1/hour? 1/day? That goes against the format, and is bad form.



I think Divine Champion works better than Supplication as a capstone. Divine Champion lets the priest make better use of the skills they already have, insead of adding in a new one that might not have any other relevance to the class. The 'aura of protection' was a bit fuzzy though, and it would be helpful if that was spelled out a bit more clearly. The whole summon outsider ability would make a nice feat chain though.

The summoning is something I've been working on, I'll show you later.

Edit:
Aura of Protection comes from this one...
Faithful Protection
Prerequisites: True believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You can generate a protective ward as a supernatural ability. Grant someone you touch a resistance bonus equal to your class levels on his or her next saving throw. Activating this power is a standard action. The protective ward is constant, but you may only have 1 such ward up at any given time.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may take 1/2 the damage from an attack directed to an ally, this ability may be used as an immediate action.
Stage III: You are continuously protected by a supernatural shield. This shield grants an AC bonus equal to your casting stat's Modifier.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may create a shield made of pure faith, this shield does not allow anyone to target you with an attack or spell till your next turn. It takes a full round action to activate this shield.

------------------------------

Oh, screw it! I'll show you what I have!


Demonic Lore
Prerequisite: TB or Magical Aptitude (or whatever we are working with now)
Benefit:
Benefit:
Stage I: You are accompanied by an animal, it's HD may not exceed your own -2, this animal has the fiendish template. If this animal ever dies, you recipient another one after 24 hours of meditation.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 drech, they follow your orders till the beginning of the next round, then vanish.
Stage III: You gain the Fiendish Template.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you gain:

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to poison.
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10.
Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).

This effect lasts for 2 rounds.



Celestial Lore
Prerequisite: TB or Magical Aptitude
Benefit:
Stage I: You are accompanied by an animal, it's HD may not exceed your own -2, this animal has the Celestial template. If this animal ever dies, you recipient another one after 24 hours of meditation.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 Lantern Archon, they follow your orders till the beginning of the next round, then vanish.
Stage III: You gain the Celestial Template.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you gain:

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to disease.
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, sonic 10, and electricity 10.
Damage reduction: 5/magic

This effect lasts for 2 rounds.


Demonic Pact
Prerequisite: Demonic Lore
Benefit:
Stage I: You may summon a Quasit as a constant companion. This creature will assist to the best of his abilities, while still being true to his nature.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 Fiendish Wolves. They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper. They stay for one round per cha modifier.
Stage III: Your can attempt to cull a demon as a full-round action. If you see a demon (summoned or not) or fiendish creature, you make a cha check, the demon must make a will save vs. your Cha check or obey your commands for one round per cha modifier you have.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may summon 2D4 Fiendish Wolves, They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper.They stay for one round per cha modifier.


Celestial Blessings
Prerequisite: Celestial Lore
Benefit
Stage I: You may summon a Lantern Archon as a constant companion. This creature will assist to the best of his abilities, while still being true to his nature.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 Celestial Eagles. They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper. They stay for one round per cha modifier.
Stage III: Your can attempt to request the help of any celestial as a full-round action. If you see a celestial (summoned or not) or celestial creature, you make a cha check, the demon must make a will save vs. your Cha check or obey your commands for one round per cha modifier you have.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may summon 2D4 Celestial Eagles, They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper.They stay for one round per cha modifier.


I don't have the third one, but it will summon a greater servant.

[tarkisflux]

That's because a class is, by definition, something that gives every member a set of core abilities.

Yeah, I'd agree with you on this, but that's kinda beside my point. I was suggesting that we bring this more into line with what DIT suggested in his class progression revision; if I missed where everyone decided that was crap and we were abandoning it, then you are absolutely correct and should skim/ignore the rest of this post :smallwink:

Personally, I think that that even if you disagree with the idea of developing seperate paths and encounter abilities for each class (or even a pool of them and letting different classes pick from different collections), the basic structure of it isn't bad. The stuff that follows all assumes that ability progression is a good one, so take from it what you will...



Now for some example Paths and Encounter Abilities, using the Barbarian as an example. The Barbarian's class abilities (standard...all Barbarians have these) are Rage, Uncanny Dodge, Damage Reduction, and Undying Frenzy {....} I envision every class as having at least five options for paths and about the same number for encounter abilities.

All I was doing was suggesting that we turn Show of Faith into their primary encounter abilities and give them some choice in them. Not doing something along those lines makes this class more static than the base classes. If you think one specific path for each deity is too much, ok, how about we make 8 or so, but only allow them to select from a reduced number that falls under the deity's purview. That sort of reminds me of domain powers now, but whatever.

Aside from that lack of options when compared to base classes, the class has another issue I noticed when I took a closer look at the redesign. The priest as written doesn't match that progression very well, and they're going to come out weaker because of it. DIT hasn't tossed this out yet, but I'm going to suggest this as the revised prestige class ability progression to go with his revised class progression:

Table ?-? Prestige Class Feature Layout
{table=head]Level|Class Feature|Primary Path|Secondary Path|Primary Encounter Power|Secondary Encounter Power

1st|Prestige Class Feature|Primary Prestige Path Feature I||Primary Prestige Encounter Power 1/encounter|

2nd|Prestige Class Feature | |Secondary Prestige Path Feature I | |Secondary Prestige Encounter Power 1/encounter

3rd|Prestige Paragon Feature|Paragon Ability (Prestige Path II)| |Prestige Primary Encounter Power 2/encounter|[/table]

This is pretty much just the last 3 levels of a regular class advancement. It makes sense to switch the primary and secondary encounter ability advancement in this case though. Since the encounter options that GIT did before were fairly balanced and completely interchangeable, it shouldn't make any difference.

The bonus TB feats and Divine Champion/Supplication look pretty clearly like class abilities, and as you said above all members of the class get those standard. Since their spellcasting is entirely based on their TB feats, this seems entirely appropriate. Show of Faith would fall into the primary encounter ability advancement, but they don't get any choices for it right now like the base classes will. If Divine Servant stays, that might be equivalent to a lvl 3 path ability, which would set it up as their secondary path ability; If Commune gets put in it could fill the secondary encounter ability position.

Right now it looks like priests are missing their primary path advancement and paragon path ability entirely as well as either their secondary path ability or primary encounter ability (depending on which power gets finalized, unless you take both). Calling the bonus TB feats their primary path abilities doesn't work because they scale at 5 and 6 instead of 4 and 6, and they would then lack class abilities instead (ugh, DIT's feat advancemt example on page 1 is wrong, this might work out after all with some tweaking).


@DIT
Sorry, I know you've got more important things goin on right now, but it's your work...


At level 3, 5, and 6 you unlock the next stage in the sequence. This applies to all your feats; a level four character has four feats, and has stages I-III for all of them.

I noticed your example on the first page is off, which is what I based my whole 'magic as feat has problems' argument off of initially :smallredface:. Are the advancement levels wrong, or should the L4 char here only have access to stages I and II? It has a pretty big impact now that you've brought in paths that look and act a lot like feats.

@Tialait


Casting is being done with feats, anyone can take them.

Yes, but feats don't scale at the same rate class abilities do, and they're specifically designed to give abilities at different rates than class abilities. That's where my problem is. As written, they are a level or so behind class abilites, at best. That's probably fine for the non-caster classes, who have other class abilities, but for casters in a feat based casting system it's bad. I tried to take it apart in an earlier post, but no one really picked up on it. This might be fixed by DIT commenting on the issue above, but for now it's poorly balanced against melee classes. I don't want to complain more about it until DIT responds.


I personally didn't like the layout that Djinn came out with for the different internal class abilities, it is flavorful, but A LOT of work. You basically have to make 3 to 6 (Djinn is going for 10) classes in one.

Yeah, I missed everyone's general annoyance at that idea, which is why I went back and spoilered my previous comments. I loved the idea, but I get why others would recoil from it.

I agree that it's a lot more work, but I don't think it's as much as you suggested. DIT even said that several of those paths could be shared amongst classes. I'd say it's more like building the secondary abilities of classes such that they're modular, related classes could pick them up if they wanted to.

Still, it's more work, and it doesn't have to be done while all the classes are being built, so it's worth putting off on the side. I will say that his general build is a solid one, and building things along those lines with static paths and encounter abilities would be easy.


1/hour? 1/day? That goes against the format, and is bad form.

Is it bad for any reason besides the 'format' one? All we have so far are encounter abilities, attacks, and skills. There is no format for non-encounter abilities, so I don't know what format I'm going against.

If we aren't making non-encounter abilities aside from skills, than I agree that this is bad. Otherrwise, we need to think of some format to contain otherwise abusable abilities, and I thought this appropriate.

If you want to say that all abilities can be used some # of times per encounter -or- per hour, whichever is greater (or something like that anyway), then I would agree that this is against format. But since there isn't a game structure in which to use non-encounter abilities outside of encounters, I don't see the problem.


Aura of Protection comes from this one...

Hrm. Why not just add that as a bonus feat when they hit 6? It looks good :-)

The summoning chains look interesting as well, and are going to be pretty easily restricted tothe PrC just because of the sheer number of feats you need to get to them. Haven't looked them over from a balance perspective yet though, gonna wait for DIT to sort the feat ability progression before I worry about those anymore :smallwink:

[Pronounceable]

Yeah, I'd agree with you on this, but that's kinda beside my point. I was suggesting that we bring this more into line with what DIT suggested in his class progression revision; if I missed where everyone decided that was crap and we were abandoning it, then you are absolutely correct and should skim/ignore the rest of this post


We didn't decide to drop it. We just didn't like that. But it's ultimately Djinn's project, if he decides every class will have 10 paths, then every class will have 10 paths. What we're trying to come up with is the magicky class format.


All I was doing was suggesting that we turn Show of Faith into their primary encounter abilities and give them some choice in them.

But that's effectively making a large bunch of class abilities and naming all of them as SoF.


how about we make 8 or so, but only allow them to select from a reduced number that falls under the deity's purview. That sort of reminds me of domain powers now, but whatever.

That's the whole point of TB/domain feats.


Right now it looks like priests are missing their primary path advancement and paragon path ability entirely as well as either their secondary path ability or primary encounter ability

Primary path of the priest is the two domain feats he gets at level 1. Domain feats further down the line are secondary paths. It's the class's unique abilities that's giving the trouble.

Djinn's main posts were before the idea of feat advancement was accepted (or I assumed we accepted it, I certainly did). Now the feats you gain at any level are stage I. Other stages are allowed at 3rd, 5th and 6th. So yeah, at 4th you have stage II of the feats you took at 0th, 1st and 2nd. Feats gained at 3rd or 4th are only at I. If you get a new feat on 5th, it's I while all other feats you have increase one stage. Only stage IV abilities you'll get is for feats you gained before you hit 3rd. Hence "primary path" of priests.


1/hour? 1/day? That goes against the format, and is bad form.

I'd actually prefer that format. I keep telling (and assuming when making feats) encounter abilities will be used out of combat. A clear time period is much better than an undefined "encounter" length of time. But then there's the matter of 2/encounter stuff that appears on higher levels.

BTW, non encounter abilities are either constant, usable at will or static bonuses.

[Lady Tialait]

You are much more articulate in this medium then me. Thank you for saying what I have had in my mind all along. *gives a cookie* Alright, soooo basically we need a secondary ability. The primary is very nice it's....bonus feats.....I think the paragon is fair, it might be underpowered, but I think it needs some play testing at that level to make sure if it's good or not....here is a new idea as the secondary 1/encounter ability.


Surge of Faith: 1/encounter you may gain a standard or move action in a turn you use a TB feat.


That ends up keeping the theme of the class without being too powerful...also...instead of Divine Servant. Here is an idea.

Divine Study: You may advance 1 TB feat you possess by 1 stage.


This is just an idea, if you don't like it, tell me but it might be more, or less effective, or maybe more or less flavorful.

[Pronounceable]

Hmm... The priest, whose unique class abilities will also depend on domains, becomes unhealtily dependant on his divinely granted abilities that way. Yea I like that image, for what is a cleric without a god? A philosopher.

And now that I've made a few domain feats granting class skills, I can see that Divine Servant is either out of place, or unnecessary depending on feats taken.

And we'll have no "cleric of a cause" (I hope). The guy who came up with that concept should be hunted down and shot. Repeatedly.
...
Let's look at our priest now:

1st: TB, Domain 1
2nd: 1/Encounter, Domain 2
3rd: Passive ability, Domain 3
4th: 2/Encounter, either Domain 4 or Passive ability 2
5th: Two more domains
6th: Capstone, 3/Encounter

That's a lot of domains. At 6th level, D1 and D2 will be maxed, D3 and maybe D4 at III, then last two at II. So a total of 8 encounter abilities just from TBs, plus class's own encounter and the capstone gives us a grand total of 10 different encounter powers, of which 3 will be über abilities. This bodes ill.

If 3 and 5 had passive/at will abilities or were dead levels, cleric 6 would have 2 domain maxed and 2 at III (if L4 gives domain instead of passive) domains. Which is better.

D'oh! Just noticed capstone doesn't have to be encounter (barb has fast healing). Less encounter, the better. So now priest is:

1st: TB, Domain 1
2nd: 1/Encounter, Domain 2
3rd: Passive ability 1
4th: 2/Encounter, Domain 3
5th: Passive ability 2
6th: Capstone, 3/Encounter

Now at 6, cleric has 6 different encounter abilities. His class ability is usable thrice. His capstone is passive/at will, two domains maxed and one at III. We can't have 1/encounter be Surge of Faith. It's L2, and domains are at I. They're either passive, or at will. We need something else, and Commune could work (though something else would be better, I got plans for Commune). At L4, domains will be at II so 2/encounter can be Surge of Faith.

For Divine Study. I feel increasing feats with anything other than PC level will cause trouble so I'll change it to:

Divine Study: You may gain stage I of a TB feat that you don't have which fits your deity's portfolio.

Now we can use it with impunity. We may even use it twice, which will give another TB I and not II of the previous one. Benefit: all are passive, potential for batman minimized.

As for capstone, I want it passive/at will. And I did say I had plans for Commune. We'll make it at will, and throw in a +1 faith bonus to skill checks, initiative and/or to hit while acting on word from above. That should make it capstone material. If not, we can make it +2.

Back to Surge of Faith as an encounter power. We want it usable at L2. We also want it tied to existing domains all of which are at stage I. So we're stumped. (by we, I mean I here)


For now, I'll stop. Perhaps I'll actually go and study for the damn last final...

[tarkisflux]

I'm confused. Are you rebuilding the cleric as a 6 level base class now? If not, can you go back over those levels to show how you got all those feats?


Djinn's main posts were before the idea of feat advancement was accepted (or I assumed we accepted it, I certainly did). Now the feats you gain at any level are stage I. Other stages are allowed at 3rd, 5th and 6th. So yeah, at 4th you have stage II of the feats you took at 0th, 1st and 2nd. Feats gained at 3rd or 4th are only at I. If you get a new feat on 5th, it's I while all other feats you have increase one stage. Only stage IV abilities you'll get is for feats you gained before you hit 3rd. Hence "primary path" of priests.

I don't agree with you here. I read DIT's OP on feats as indicating that they were retroactive adjustments for all feats you had. Under that, you'd actually have stage IV abilities for each feat you'd selected, which might be a lot more encounter abilities than you're expecting right now.

It sounds like feat progression and path progression are getting confused. I'm not even sure that it makes sense to progress feats like that, you'd only get the minor abilities at later levels and you're less likely to need them at that point. It would also suck for feat chains of any depth due to the difficulty in acquiring the tier IV ability of the feat last in the chain (though DIT also tried to do away with chains entirely, and I think we might be starting to see some overpowered feats deep in chains, likely a result of trying to out perform their predecessor).

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

All the above is true...which is one of the reasons that this might reappear a little different from how it stands at the moment. The biggest changes are liable to be in class feature progression and feat progression...we'll see how it works out.

[Lady Tialait]

Djinn, i'm going to try something, if it looks good maybe it would be the 'second G6 system' or something, but I think it creates a nice feel.

First, feats stages start to work like the following:
Level 0 Stage I
Level 3 Feat Advancement
Level 5 Feat Advancement
Level 6 Feat Advancement

All feats you possess have stages, when you gain a feat it is at stage I, at a level with feat advancement you gain the next stage.

Second, we loose the DM just choosing your level (You can still do it, but I really don't think most players will like it), give them back their experience. (Also, let them eat cake) Normal leveling charts for the first 6 levels, and every 2000 experience after that your feats progress another stage.

That gives you basically what i'll be working with. I haven't got a ya or nay on that from Djinn. But, I like the feeling of it. You could still use the DM choosing the level stuff, just decide how high stage the feats are. /rant


Additionally, I am making a list of the Domains we need to have feats for.

Air Domain
Animal Domain
Chaos Domain
Death Domain
Destruction Domain
Earth Domain
Evil Domain
Fire Domain
Good Domain
Healing Domain
Knowledge Domain
Law Domain
Luck Domain
Magic Domain
Plant Domain
Protection Domain
Strength Domain
Sun Domain
Travel Domain
Trickery Domain
War Domain
Water Domain


That is SRD's Domains, i've made some of them. And i'll relocate them here.


The True Believer feats we have thus far...

Faithful Protection
Prerequisites: True believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You can generate a protective ward as a supernatural ability. Grant someone you touch a resistance bonus equal to your class levels on his or her next saving throw. Activating this power is a standard action. The protective ward is constant, but you may only have 1 such ward up at any given time.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may take 1/2 the damage from an attack directed to an ally, this ability may be used as an immediate action.
Stage III: You are continuously protected by a supernatural shield. This shield grants an AC bonus equal to your casting stat's Modifier.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may create a shield made of pure faith, this shield does not allow anyone to target you with an attack or spell till your next turn. It takes a full round action to activate this shield.


Faithful Healing
Prerequisites: True believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: Your and any person who rests within 60ft. of you gains x2 the natural healing rate from a night's rest.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may heal a person you touch this ability heals 2D8+1+Class Level this ability can not heal one person more then 10 times your class level in one day (to a max of 60 points) in one day.
Stage III: You regain 1 hit point per hour. This ability may be passed with a 10 minuet ritual, but it cannot be transfered more then 2 times in a 24 hour period.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may restore all allies within 10ft. up to 1/2 their max. HP.


Faithful Destruction
Prerequisites: True believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You may use a full-round action to destroy nonmagical unattended objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain. All such objects within a 5-foot radius of the point of origin are smashed into dozens of pieces by this ability. Objects weighing more than 1 pound per your level are not affected, but all other objects of the appropriate composition are shattered.
Stage II: 1/encounter you gain the smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a +4 bonus on attack rolls and a bonus on damage rolls equal to your class level (if you hit). You must declare the smite before making the attack.
Stage III: When you strike at an object held or carried by an opponent (such as a weapon or shield), you do not provoke an attack of opportunity.You also gain a +4 bonus on any attack roll made to attack an object held or carried by another character.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may produce a beam of destruction, dealing 1D4 damage per class level. If this attack deals enough damage to kill the target. They are utterly destroyed. Leaving nothing but a pile of dust, and cannot be identified as the target. This ability deals twice as much damage to objects.

Faithful Fire
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You have a continued aura of flame. This ability can be suppressed as a full-round action, and is a free action to activate. When this aura is activated, one weapon per point of casting stat bonus plus 2, burst on fire dealing 1D6 fire damage per 3 class levels.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy water creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster fire creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: Your Aura of flame intensify. Any time you are struck by a non-reach weapon the attacker takes 2D6 fire damage. This effect continues as long as you have your Aura of Flame activated.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with flames. In this form you gain fire resistance equal to your constitution score, may not deactivated your aura of flame, and a natural attack dealing 1D8 bludgeoning damage. You may also throw small fire balls. these projectiles deal 1D8+6 fire damage. This effect last for 6 rounds.

Faithful Earth
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You become more resistant to moral weaknesses. Gaining immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy air creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster earth creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: Your skin hardens providing a natural armor. This natural armor bonus is equal to your class level. In addition, you gain DR/Bludgening equal to your Constitution modifier.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with earth. In this form you gain acid resistance equal to your constitution score and a natural attack dealing 2D8 bludgeoning damage. You may also throw chunks of rock. these projectiles deal 2D8+1 bludgeoning damage. This effect last for 6 rounds.

Faithful Air
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: Your feet shun earth. From now on, you can float a foot above the ground. Instead of walking you glides along, unconcerned with the hard earth or difficult terrain. While you remains within 1 foot of a flat surface of any solid or liquid, you can take normal actions and make normal attacks, and can move at your normal speed (you can even “run” at four times her normal speed). However, at distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, your speed diminishes to 10 feet per round.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy earth creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster air creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: You may, at will create areas of mist. A misty vapor cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius from you, 20 ft. high arises around you. It is stationary once created. The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). A moderate wind (11+ mph), disperses the fog in 4 rounds. A strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round. A fireball, flame strike, or similar ability burns away the fog in the explosive or fiery spell’s area. A wall of fire burns away the fog in the area into which it deals damage. This ability does not function underwater.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with air. In this form you gain electricity resistance equal to your constitution score and a natural attack dealing 2D6 bludgeoning damage. You may also fly. Your fly speed is equal to your twice your base land speed with perfect control. This effect last for 6 rounds. If you are in the air when the effect ends, you take appropriate falling damage.

Faithful Water
Prerequite: True Believer, 14+ casting stat.
Effect:
Stage I: You may breath in water as easy as you breath air. You additionally gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed.
Stage II: 1/encounter Turn or destroy fire creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster water creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. This granted power is a supernatural ability.
Stage III: You can raise or lower any body of water:
Lower Water:
This causes water or similar liquid to reduce its depth by as much as 2 feet per class level (to a minimum depth of 1 inch). The water is lowered within a squarish depression whose sides are up to class level × 10 feet long. In extremely large and deep bodies of water, such as a deep ocean, the ability creates a whirlpool that sweeps ships and similar craft downward, putting them at risk and rendering them unable to leave by normal movement for as long as concentration is maintained. When cast on water elementals and other water-based creatures, this ability acts as a slow spell (Will save DC 13+casting stat modifier). The spell has no effect on other creatures.
Raise Water
This causes water or similar liquid to rise in height, just as the lower water version causes it to lower. Boats raised in this way slide down the sides of the hump that the ability creates. If the area affected by the spell includes riverbanks, a beach, or other land nearby, the water can spill over onto dry land.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you engulf yourself with water and shards of Ice. In this form you gain cold resistance equal to your constitution score and a natural attack dealing 2D8 bludgeoning damage. You may also throw small Ice Shards. These projectiles deal 1D8+6 cold damage. This effect last for 6 rounds.

Faithful Sun
Prerequites: True Believer.
Stage I: 1/encounter you may attempt a turn undead. (Turning Rules, for those of us who don't know them...including me (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead))
Stage II: At will you may create a small orb of light, this light floats no farther then 10ft. away form you. It produces light as a small torch.
Stage III: 1/encounter you can perform a greater turning against undead. The greater turning is like a normal turning except that the undead creatures that would be turned are destroyed instead.
Stage IV: At will you may increase the light from your orb to extremely bright. This light can blind creatures and acts as natural sun light. The save vs. the blinding effect is 11+casting stat modifier.

Smite the Heretic (I'll admit it needs a better name)
Prereq: True Believer
I: You burn with holy fury. All your attacks deal extra +2 holy damage to all creatures not worshipping your deity. It's +1d8 against "heretics" of other deities.
II: Once per encounter, you may channel your deity's power upon the world. Every creature that isn't a follower of your deity within 30 feet of you takes 1d6 holy damage and is stunned for a round (fort save negates). "Heretics" of other deities take double damage and don't get to save.
III: Your zeal has no bounds. Any time you strike a heretic, your deity's power courses through you dealing +1d10 holy damage. You are healed (or gain temporary hp) by the same amount.
IV: You are a scourge to the heretics. Once per encounter, you may call your deity's fury upon a worshipper of another deity, dealing 6d8+2 per his cleric level holy damage.

Nature's Lore
Prerequisite: True Believer, Casting Stat 14+
Benefit:
Stage I: You can use speak with animals and speak with plants at will as a spell-like ability. Add Knowledge (nature) to your list of class class skills.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may create a effect like entangle and spike growth. This effect lasts 1 round per class level, the save DC is 12+casting stat mod.
Stage III: You gain an Animal Companion as a druid of your class level -2. linkage
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may create the effect of Summon Nature's Ally II. Your caster level is equal to your class levels.

Stalwart Faith
Prerequisite: True Believer.
Stage I: You gain a +1 divine bonus to your saves.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may re roll a D20 roll. You must make this reroll before you know the results of your action, and you must take the results of the reroll even if they are worse then the original.
Stage III: You gain a +1 divine bonus to your saves.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may take a full-round action to become immune to physical damage. This effect lasts till the beginning of your next turn.

Justicar
Prerequisite: True Believer
Benefit
Stage I: You may use Detect Alignment at will. In addition, if you take 1 minuet you may loose this ability for 24 for the use of Detect Lies once.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may use a smite chaos attack, gaining +4 on the attack roll, and your cha modifier as extra damage. If this attack is aimed at a non-chaotic creature, it deals no damage.
Stage III: You gain the effect of Urban Tracking (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#urbanTracking)
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may produce a hold person effect, the will save is 12+Cha Mod. CL equal to your class levels.

War
Prereqs: True Believer
I: The priest gains +2 to hit and damage with his deity's favored weapon. He also gains all armor and shield proficiencies.
II: 1/encounter, the priest can make a battlecry that rallies his allies. All allies hearing it gain +1 to hit, damage and all saves plus a +2 AC. The effect lasts a number of rounds equal to priest's level.
III: The priest gains fighter BAB.
IV: 1/encounter, the priest can smite an enemy in his god's name. He gains +10 to attack and damage for a single melee attack. The attack ignores all DR and deals holy damage. If misses, the ability is not spent.

Travel
Prereqs: TB
I: The priest gains +10' to his speed. He also treats climb, ride, survival, swim and tumble as class skills.
II: 1/encounter, the priest may haste himself.
III: The priest is constantly under the effects of freedom of movement.
IV: 1/encounter, the priest can use dimension door.

Trickery
Prereqs: TB
I: You may treat bluff, disguise, escape artist, forgery, hide, move silently, open lock and sleight of hand as class skills.
II: 1/encounter, you may fade out. People will see and hear you, but will not register your existence unless they make a will save (DC 10+level+wis). Even attacking in melee will not let them notice you, but will grant a new save with +5 bonus. Once saved, they can notice you normally. This is not an illusion of any kind, but a mind affecting divine power. It lasts 10 rounds. This is a free action.
III: You can only be detected by mundane senses (you can still hide and move silently to achieve nondetection). In addition to divination immunity, this means you don't exist to creatures that don't have conventional senses (like constructs and mindless undead). They won't react to you in any way. You can't turn this off.
IV: 1/encounter, you may create a false image of yourself as a swift action. The image is semi sentient, and will act as if it's really you. Its abilities are identical to yours but have half HP and deals half damage. It has no encounter powers. It lasts until destroyed (or one hour). (note that both II and IV can be activated at the same time)

Death
Prereqs: TB
I: You are fearless. No effect can shake, frighten or panic you. Intimidate attempts are also at -10.
II: 1/encounter, you may radiate the chill of death. Everyone within 30' of you (including allies) is shaken for the rest of the encounter (no save). This is a mind affecting ability.
III: You gain an aura of death. All living beings within 10' of you feel very uncomfortable (-2 to all mental skill rolls). Undead are also repulsed. Mindless undead will not approach you, while sentient udead will be nauseated (even if they may technically be immune to it) within 10' of you. They will also recognize you as a priest to death on sight.
IV: 1/encounter, you may kill a living creature with a touch (will OR fort save negates, your choice). When used on undead, this ability will instantly destroy them (no save).

Demonic Lore
Prerequisite: TB or Magical Aptitude (or whatever we are working with now)
Benefit:
Benefit:
Stage I: You are accompanied by an animal, it's HD may not exceed your own -2, this animal has the fiendish template. If this animal ever dies, you recipient another one after 24 hours of meditation.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 drech, they follow your orders till the beginning of the next round, then vanish.
Stage III: You gain the Fiendish Template.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you gain:

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to poison.
* Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10.
* Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).

This effect lasts for 2 rounds.



Celestial Lore
Prerequisite: TB or Magical Aptitude
Benefit:
Stage I: You are accompanied by an animal, it's HD may not exceed your own -2, this animal has the Celestial template. If this animal ever dies, you recipient another one after 24 hours of meditation.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 Lantern Archon, they follow your orders till the beginning of the next round, then vanish.
Stage III: You gain the Celestial Template.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you gain:

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to disease.
* Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, sonic 10, and electricity 10.
* Damage reduction: 5/magic

This effect lasts for 2 rounds.


Demonic Pact
Prerequisite: Demonic Lore
Benefit:
Stage I: You may summon a Quasit as a constant companion. This creature will assist to the best of his abilities, while still being true to his nature.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 Fiendish Wolves. They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper. They stay for one round per cha modifier.
Stage III: Your can attempt to cull a demon as a full-round action. If you see a demon (summoned or not) or fiendish creature, you make a cha check, the demon must make a will save vs. your Cha check or obey your commands for one round per cha modifier you have.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may summon 2D4 Fiendish Wolves, They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper.They stay for one round per cha modifier.


Celestial Blessings
Prerequisite: Celestial Lore
Benefit
Stage I: You may summon a Lantern Archon as a constant companion. This creature will assist to the best of his abilities, while still being true to his nature.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may summon 1D4 Celestial Eagles. They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper. They stay for one round per cha modifier.
Stage III: Your can attempt to request the help of any celestial as a full-round action. If you see a celestial (summoned or not) or celestial creature, you make a cha check, the demon must make a will save vs. your Cha check or obey your commands for one round per cha modifier you have.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may summon 2D4 Celestial Eagles, They apper in 1D8 rounds, and follow your orders. If you die before they arrive, they do not apper.They stay for one round per cha modifier.

I need to sort them into 'Domains' but other then that...we are doing well so far.

And...another feat, because i'm bored.

Magical Item Creation
Prerequisite: Magical Aptitude, or True Believer
Benefit:
Stage I: You may create a scroll of a single 1/encounter ability you possess, this scroll costs 200gp x Stage of the ability, it takes 1 day to create this scroll. You may only have scrolls created up to your int. Modifier. If any of the scrolls are destroyed or used you may make additional scrolls.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may Imbue a weapon or armor with magic. It gains a bonus to hit or damage (or a combination of both) equal to half your class levels. If the Item is armor, it gains a bonus equal to 1/4 your class levels as an enhancement bonus to it's armor bonus. This bonus lasts for rounds equal to your Int. Mod.
Stage III: You may create one magical ring, it gives twice your int. modifier as a bonus on one skill. The wearer gains that as a perminate bonus.
Stage IV: You may create one magical staff, it can hold up to your int. Mod in 1/encounter abilities, it my be used 1/encounter.


That may be too powerful, but I like it.

[Pronounceable]

It's too early for abilities that create magic items. We don't know what sort of magic effects items will be allowed to have (a very major design point, which's better left to Djinn).
...
So until Djinn gives the last word on both class and feat progressions, anything more we make is in danger of being stillborn.
...
I'm seconding that feat progression Tialait gives above. I like the feeling of dedication. But keep leveling in the hands of DM since s/he’s the only one at the table who really knows what’s going on. Who else can be a better judge of available power? And XP is such a bother...

Now I'll offer up something on class progression.

Looking at existing base classes' abilities:
Barb: 2 encounter, 4 passive abilities. Capstone is passive.
Fighter: 1 encounter, 4 passive abilities plus 3 bonus feats. Capstone passive.
Marshall: 1 encounter, 5 passive abilities. Capstone encounter.
Monk: 1 encounter, 7 passive. Capstone passive.
Rogue: 1 encounter, 5 passive. Capstone passive.
Scout: 1 encounter, 5 passive. Capstone passive.

From this, I can see 1 encounter and 5 passive abilities is the default of existing system (disregarding capstones). The majority of options will come from the feats.

Two feats at 0th, and more at 2nd, 4th and 6th. But Tarkisflux is right, with the feat progression that last feat will be redundant. Removing it and using the feat progression we support, 3 feats will get to IV while the last will be III. My gut tells me that last one will be better off ending at II. So we move the L4 feat to L5. Now characters get 2 feats at L0, then at L2 and finally at L5. The feats will bring a total of 7 encounter and 7 passive abilities at L6.

(Incidentally from this, I think fighter is a bit advantaged currently, seeing he'll get 4 more encounter and 5 passive abilities from extra feats.)

So standardizing that 5-1 class ratio, I offer a class progression that gives one passive ability on each level until last, and an encounter ability somewhere along the way (L2 seems good to me, see below). L6 only gives the capstone (which tends to be passive) plus that stat increase, which is divorced from capstone.
(Djinn: Why was it tied to the capstone in the first place? All capstones give it already.)

When we add paths which work in stages identical to feats (though I'm against that idea on the grounds of the amount of work and tweaking necessary to make it work), it'll be better for them to level up different from normal feats (say at 2nd, 4th, 6th). Here's the end result:

1st: Class Ability 1, Path choice (4 passive)
2nd: Class Ability 2, Encounter Ability, gain feat, path improves to II (6 passive, 2 encounter)
3rd: Class Ability 3, 3 feats improve to II (7 passive, 5 encounter)
4th: Class Ability 4, path improves to III (9 passive, 5 encounter)
5th: Class Ability 5, 3 feats improve to III, gain feat (14 passive, 5 encounter)
6th: Capstone, stat increase, 3 feats improve to IV, one feat to II, path improves to IV (14 passive, 10 encounter, capstone)

L6 is rather batman. L3 and L5 also get big leaps, but nowhere near L6, so let’s call them robin. L1 is fine. L2 looks good. L4 looks a bit beaten down, but that’s just midlife crisis. It’ll get over it...
...
You know, Tialait’s right. This sort of work can lead a variant on its own. I think I just made me an offspring system of G6. An accomplishment, since G6 itself isn’t even in betatest.
...
This feat making thingy is addictive. And we should rename that “Smite the Heretic” into “Intolerance”.
Knowledge
Prereq: TB
I: You can speak and understand all spoken languages.
II: 1/encounter, you can determine the abilities of any creature (stats)
III: You can understand understand what the effects of any power you see that’s being used within 200’. You gain +1 bonus to whatever applicable defense you have if it’s hostile to you.
IV: 1/encounter, you can see into the immediate future. This effect maximizes all dice that benefit you, and minimize all dice hostile to you (but modifiers are applied, and there’s neither autofail nor autosuccess). It takes a standard action to activate this power which lasts 5 rounds.

[Lady Tialait]

The Feat making thing is really addictive, just end a post with one...so neato, and the fact we TONS of them isn't a bad thing...

Oh, nice chart, I like it. It's uniform allows for everyone to have a psudo-balance, not just guess work, that is why I liked the feats that Djinn came up with. As long as they are monitored on power level they will remain fairly balanced. If we uniform the classes better, balance will be easier to define....and you can't have pudding if you don't eat your meat, how can you have pudding if your don't eat your meat?


Law
Prerequisite: TB
Benefit:
Stage I: You gain the constant protection from Chaos as per the spell.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may attempt a zealous strike against a chaotic enemy adding +4 to hit with this attack and your class level as extra damage.
Stage III: You gain a constant protection from a constant Magic Circle Vs. Chaos.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may attempt to banish a Chaotic outsider, to do so roll a Cha check adding your class level to the check, the outsider must make a will save vs. the results or be banished for 24 hours.

[Tedankhamen]

Hmmm, Monsters and Mazes originally had only 6 levels, so I can see what you are saying about a 'sweet spot' of adventuring fun. Yet limiting PC advancement as a way to prolong said fun seems counter-productive in the long run, especially when Players are conditioned by DnD to seek level advancement as a goal and adventure goals are instead a necessary (and mostly distasteful) way of achieving this. Shortcircuiting the system in this way is like busting out car windows to get more air in while you drive - good for a while, but eventually it will cause problems.

Why not use BRP or a variant therof, where the whole idea of levels is irrevelant? I guess I understand your point reason for devising G6, but the method of overlaying more rules on an already crunchy system leaves me a tad unexcited.

Good luck ironing out the wrinkles!

[Pronounceable]

especially when Players are conditioned by DnD to seek level advancement as a goal and adventure goals are instead a necessary (and mostly distasteful) way of achieving this.

We're assuming the people who use this won't be "twisted beyond hope" like that.


and you can't have pudding if you don't eat your meat, how can you have pudding if your don't eat your meat?

I'd have more meat over pudding any day.

[Dark-Penance]

...and you can't have pudding if you don't eat your meat, how can you have pudding if your don't eat your meat?

"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"


As far as G6 goes, I'm a little worried (for my personal tastes) that it might over-simplify the class system because, in truth, there are ~780 prestige classes. That's what I like about E6: because requirements don't change, it avoids the problem of addressing them by denying access. G6 tries explicitly to do the opposite and allow prestige classes, but I feel that the range of prestige classes designed for G6 will be severely limiting compared to what it tries to emulate.

[Lady Tialait]

I think Djinn wanted PrC, i may be wrong, but that may have been why he though of G6, in E6 you don't really have them except as a 'last minuet' 6th level. Not really worth it. Why all the discouragement? We are making progress, and when Djinn gets his stuff sorted out we'll have more help. I mean, i'm never discouraged, but meh.

Erm.....feat.


Truthsayer
Prerequisites: TB
Benefit:
Stage I: You gain +4 bonus on all sense motive vs. bluff opposed checks to tell if someone is lying.
Stage II: 1/encounter you make an immediate single melee attack again some one who uses the bluff skill to feint and fails. This attack deals bonus damage equal to your wisdom modifier.
Stage III: You may take a 10 on any sense motive check you make in combat, even if threatened or rushed.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may speak a word of utter truth, when you do all creatures within 20ft. become stunned, to avoid this effect they may make will save DC 12+wisdom modifier.

[Pronounceable]

If it were me, I'd do away with PrCs altogether. Since Djinn included them at the start and people like the concept of PrC for some unfathomable reason, I'm going along with it. IMO, G6 can easily replace PrCs with III staged feats(see what I did for mages).
...

I'm thinking of cooking up a new ruleset for games I run incorporating ideas from G6. My previous view was class and level structure is incompatible to my style, but I've changed my mind. 6 is indeed a sweet number.

And since I've also acquired 4E, I may create some unholy monstrosity from these pieces yet. We shall see.

[Dark-Penance]

I think Djinn wanted PrC, i may be wrong, but that may have been why he though of G6, in E6 you don't really have them except as a 'last minuet' 6th level. Not really worth it. Why all the discouragement? We are making progress, and when Djinn gets his stuff sorted out we'll have more help. I mean, i'm never discouraged, but meh.

G6 does attempt to use Prestige Classes. That's already established. My point was that that goal is likely to end in an oversimplification of prestige classes because of their sheer multitude.

I pointed out that aspect of E6 because it solves the dilemma. In E6, you're not expected (or even really encouraged) to take a Prestige Class. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

So, in short, I think E6 should either get rid of PrCs or should find a way to adequately capture the ~780 different ones. The former seems much more plausible.

I'm not trying to be a 'downer,' only trying to be realistic and offer constructive criticisms wherever possible.

As for turning PrCs into feats, that could work, but that still entails the invention of hundreds of new feats on top of all the others the game will include. It's certainly possible (and even more so than making the PrCs), but it will be tedious and time-consuming. It also becomes essential to determine the few defining abilities of each prestige class to capture them in a single feat. While some are obvious (Frenzy for a Frenzied Berserker), others, such as the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, have a defining characteristic that is split up into many different abilities (7 in this case).

Again, I'm just trying to be realistic and point out dangerous roads where I see them. I'm not saying progress has not been made or that G6 is not an intriguing idea in the least.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Djinn here. Nothing new on my end (still occupied), but I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that creation should probably be put on hold until I get back. While the original G6 should function, I've been thinking and streamlining, and I think I can solve the following problems:

The PrC issue...it would basically become optional to have PrCs, and, while I enjoy them, it wouldn't stop having a specialized and flavorful character.

The Path problem...I like the customization, but it was rather complicated the way I had it operating.

The Ability problem...with what I have in mind, a character will have a host of abilities he or she may select from a list. Fighters, skillmonkies, and spellcasters will all have the same number of abilities at any given level, allowing for better balance overall. The abilities are similiar to what we've seen in ToB and what we'll see in 4th edition, while not being exactly like either.

Maybe I'm just being indecisive, but I'm personally happy with what I've come across, and am going to see if it works.

Stay tuned for more.

[Siosilvar]

This is awesome, seems like exactly what I've been looking for. If you don't mind, I'd like to adapt it to an 8-level system for my own purposes.

[Sho]

The Samurai
Hit Points: 6 [d10]

Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Intelligence Modifier

{TABLE=HEAD]Class Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Save Bonus|Special
1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+1|Exotic Proficiency (Katana), Samurai's Mark, Sword Spirit
2nd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+0|Shirahadori, Iaido 1/Encounter
3rd|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+1|Intimidating Combatant, Cut Once +1d6
4th|
+4/+1|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+0|Shin Shirahadori, Iaido 2/Encounter
5th|
+5/+2|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+1|Pass Through, Cut Once +2d6
6th|
+6/+3|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+0|Iaido 3/Encounter, Paragon (Bushido)[/TABLE]

Save Bonus: The exact make up of a successful Samurai is never easily identified, many are forged with great resilience while others rely more upon sharp reflexes and reaction several are highly regarded for their incredible levels of inner strength. Because of this a samurai periodically gains a single point every two levels which can be added to any of the three save types (fortitude, reflex or will) she chooses. Once a point is added to a save it cannot be undone, however there is no obligation for the next point to be added to the same save as the one previously chosen.

Exotic Proficiency: The Samurai gains the ability to use the katana in one hand without penalty.

Samurai's Mark (Ex): At 1st level, the Samurai can place one foe as his charge to defeat. Every round, the Samurai can select one foe as his "Mark". When the samurai attacks a target made his "Mark", he gains a bonus to his attack rolls and rolls confirming critical hits against this target equal to his Intelligence Modifier.

Sword Spirit (Su): Through constant training with his katana, the samurai passes subconscious memories and thoughts into its blade, essentially creating an empathic link with his weapon. If acts as if it were a magical weapon with empathy, and it uses the samurai's saves, skill ranks, and attributes for its own saving throws, skill checks, and attributes scores.

Shirahadori (Ex): At 2nd level, the Samurai's insightful mind allows him to deflect melee attacks with greater ease. When the Samurai's "Mark" attempts to attack the Samurai, add the samurai's Intelligence Modifier to his Armor Class.

At 4th level, the samurai gains his Intelligence Modifier to his Armor Class at all times, except when the samurai is helpless.

Iaido (Su): The Samurai has trained with his katana for such extended periods that he can draw out the very sword's spirit to aid him in battle. When his sword's spirit of battle is unleashed, the samurai can attack all foes within 10 Ft. radius, using his highest base attack bonus. These strikes are considered to be Magic for the purposes of penetrating Damage Reduction. Attacks which hit deal maximized damage.

Intimidating Combatant (Ex): At 3rd level, the samurai’s mere presence can often force those around his into a defensive position which he can use to his advantage to maneuver into more strategic positions. The samurai may attempt to move at half his base land speed through threatened squares if he’s able to successfully pass an intimidate check equal to the DC of the tumble check required to succeed. This ability acts much as if the samurai had the tumble skill however he uses his intimidate skill instead of tumble skill to successfully bypass his adversaries.

Cut Once (Ex): At 3rd level, the samurai cuts through his adversaries with ease often dismembering numerous assailants in swift succession. The samurai incurs an additional 1d6 points of damage to the first successful attack against his mark each round. This bonus to damage increases to 2d6 once the samurai reaches 5th level.

Pass Through (Ex): At 5th level, the samurai's level of mastery allows him to perform sure-kills on the battlefield. When the samurai successfully confirms a critical upon a "Mark", the target must make a Fortitude save or Reflex save (DC = 10 + 1/2 samurai's level + samurai's Intelligence Modifier) or be dealt sufficient damage to place itself at -10 hit points. This ability can be performed times per encounter equal to the samurai's Intelligence Modifier.

Paragon (Bushido): The samurai has become a true disciple in the ways of bushido, his training and steel having honed him into a noble warrior. Whenever the samurai declares a "Mark", he can declare a secondary "Mark", and whenever the samurai's attack would miss due to cover or displacement, he can roll again and take the most beneficial roll.

[Pronounceable]

We're on hold. We're waiting for the latest word from Djinn and aren't making anything (in case it becomes obsolete with G6 v1.01).

That said, seems fairly strong at a glance. Has a saveordie which, having seen 4E, isn't necessarily a bad thing. Would definitely fit better as capstone and without multiple uses. Either has a slightly anime feeling, or I've become paranoid.

Marking, hexing, cursing, challenging, aggroing, effing, etc is admittedly a good mechanic but it's so *obviously* a mechanic. I can't fluff that sort of thing to my satisfaction, therefore am averse to its existence.

[Lady Tialait]

Cv, I've been influenced by anime...I believe most peaple have been. I was my first time playing D&D (When I was like...9?..something like htat) influenced by the hobbit (I have always had advanced reading ability..read Frank Herbert's dune when I was 6...Tolkien bored the heck out of me tho). I say, let the influences come as they will..then again..I may just love my Streetfightery feats too much..

ERm...we are waiting till The Djinn has some time to assist ont he project that way we can see the new format and not make a bunch of stuff that won't even see the light of day.

[Sho]

I actually have to admit that this "G6" incarnation of the Samurai is based on elements not wholly D&D. Basing it originally off one design, I added abilities which are closer to that of the Samurai of "Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions" fame (Iaido, Sword Spirit, Shirahadori).

I'm somewhat dismayed, too, to find that most people do not want to touch E6/G6 games, BECAUSE they prefer the near-Epic powers open to 3.5e games.

As such, I've not been able to make much testing in my own time with anyone else.

[Pronounceable]

Because I'm bored, I was working on H6 for my own use, trying to incorporate the good stuff from 4E. Then it occured to me that maybe G6 can use some stuff as well. These are ideas for Djinn to think about when he's back.

3 things that are any good from 4E:

Bloodied: A very nice concept brought on by 4E. Though I don't see where it can fit, it's a nice thing.

Skill Challenges: It's been previewed. The idea is very solid and can be tweaked further.

Recharge X: Some encounter powers have a chance to recharge during an encounter. 4E uses d6 for it (translates %17 or %33 chance). Using d20, a wider range of probabilities can be used. Using this sort of thing can help us make a powerful wizard that can actually throw two fireballs. This sort of thing could work as a capstone, or can be worked into class abilities.

[Levyathyn]

What part of phnglui mglw'nafl Cthulhu r'lyeh w'gah nagl fhtagn don't you understand?
None of it. )=D

Anyway, I just found out about this and I love G6. I'll always be on hand to test it, and if a magic system hasn't been tooled up yet, I can help there. I think we could have these things, like temporary feats, that you use one and then they're gone, but you pick more each encounter, ie. spells, but done with the I - IV scaling system I've seen on here. Either that, or a spellpoint system would rule.

Just let me know if I can help.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Djinn here. No, I'm still not ready to continue this, but I'm getting there.

Here's currently what I like from 4e that I think G6 might adopt. Opinions are appreciated.

-Fort, Ref, and Will defenses: It's nice to be able to attack something other than AC (which I'd remove...martial attacks vs. Reflex makes more sense, and Armor would probably reduce damage).

-Skill Challenges: As stated previously by cnsvnc, these are pretty cool.

-Encounter Powers: These currently function as a hybrid between ToB and 4e. You have a certain number of each level per encounter, and know a small number. Use them as you will.

-At Will Powers: These may get used, or may be tied to the weapon you wield (Wield a 2-handed sword? Cleave. A Rapier? Some sort of Precise Strike). Not sure on this one yet.

Multiclassing and my Path idea (which I think I will be using) will be explained when the first sample class (The Fighter, under construction) is posted.

[Goober4473]

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, but I will say I just put a game on hold that I've been running for something like 2 years. 3.5 D&D, with a level cap of 6. I didn't really make new classes or anything. Players could choose from any non-freakyweird classes (no Tome of X, Psionics, or Incarnum), and any LA +0 race.

I implemented a system where the players continued to gain XP at level 6, and used it to purchase gestalt levels, feats, skill points, etc. The players currently have average 3-4 levels in gestalt classes.

The players also found various artifact weapons and items that grow in power and have all kinds of abilities, including Incarnum, Martial Maneuvers, Shadow Magic, Truename Magic, and Pact Magic, among other things (for example Prometheus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53800)). One character discovered psionic powers (no class levels, I just started giving him power points and powers and stuff). I was planning to get at least one of them reincarnated into something, and maybe give someone lycanthropy.

I also recently started them on a side quest in a world where all their old abilities don't work, and they've had to learn to be Pocket Summoners (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60857) (Pokemon trainers, but cooler :smalltongue:). I was going to allow them to get to level 8 before getting home, at which point those 8 levels gestalt together with everything they had before (which still maxes at 6).

The game worked amazingly well. The players continued to gain power slowly, but mostly they gained new capabilities, not better ones, giving them far more options instead of progressing quickly forward to huge amounts of power.

I've had to put it on hold because most of my players have been unable to show up, and I'm starting a 4.0 game with some new people. I may bring the game back as 4th edition, with a level 10 cap (but the players will be technically level 12 due to the sidequest, with a Pocket Summoner paragon path, and a bunch of extra multi-class powers in addition to what they have). I think that should work pretty well.

[Tempest Fennac]

In regards to using Reflxes saves for avoiding physical attacks, I tend to think that the current AC system works better (my logic is that armour would often stop weapons from injuring the target at all rather then just reducing impact). Also, how do skill challenges work? I don't know that much about 4th Edition.

[Reinboom]

I tend to think that the current AC system works better (my logic is that armour would often stop weapons from injuring the target at all rather then just reducing impact).

I dare you to take a swing to the side with a greatsword even if in full plate.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I dare you to take a swing to the side with a greatsword even if in full plate.

Yep. That's my thinking. It's also influenced by the fact that most classes under the multiple defense system have roughly the same BaB to use against all defenses, and if I can add a +8 to one through armor I'm going to be almost invincible to normal attacks...which makes the spellcasters stronger, which is what we're trying to avoid.

[Tempest Fennac]

Would that be the case for all weapons, though? Sling bullets and arrows would just bounce off unless they penetrated the armour, and smaller one-handed weapons would also be more likely to either penetrate the armour and cause damage or fail to cause any damage at all (I suppose Armour HPs would be appropriate here, but it would mean more book-keeping, which is a bad thing).

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hence armor granting Damage Reduction.

If fullplate grants DR 5/- or DR 6/-, most things will simply bounce off such a character. It'll take a good sling shot or dagger blow to do ANYTHING, and stuff like arrows and small swords will only deal damage some of the time.

[Tempest Fennac]

Wouldn't that nerf archers and people who use smaller weapons a lot, though? I guess it wouldn't be that bad if Composite Bows were used and the characters in question had high strength (this system sounds like it would force people to use 2-handed melee weapons if they are warriors).

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Not if at-will powers are incorporated into the weapons.

Deal higher base damage with a Greatsword against all opponent's, or rely on the Rapier's ability to bypass X points of Damage Reduction with a Precise Strike? Weapons would give choices, not limitations.

[Lady Tialait]

I have test played the armor as AC, the problem is that things like Daggers don't give the Dagger feel, but, with a whole slue of special effects with weapons I would see it working. Or perhaps proficiencies feats for each class of weapons.

I'll give an example, i was taking a break from this till Djinn decided to put the project back on..but I'll just do it anywho...

Greater Light Simple Weapon Proficiency
Prerequisite: Proficiency in light simple weapons
Benefit:
Stage I: You may draw a light simple weapon as a free action, in the round you draw the weapon you gain +1 to damage with that weapon for that round.
Stage II: 1/encounter you may make a single attack against a foe, they are flat-footed against this attack.
Stage III: Light Simple Weapons your wield Ignore DR from armor.
Stage IV: 1/encounter you may make a single attack against a foe, if it lands it deals 1D4 damage to either Dex, or Str, in addition to the normal damage.

That is the only way I would want Armor as DR, if you had feats like the one above.

[erikun]

I see that you've halted work on this while looking over 4e, so I'll keep my comments brief.

The "Story Related Leveling System" seems a bit odd. As a player, I'd rather see something like the old White Wolf system for XP: you gain XP for completing a scenario, and the XP you gained depended on how well you did. It had nothing to do with who you killed or how successfully you robbed, just how well you succeeded at what you were doing. Just consider how much XP it takes to reach a level, how many scenarios you think should be in each level, and thus determine how much XP the players should get from succeeding at each scenario.

The reason I mention it is because players like watching the XP value on their character sheet go up; it makes them excited when they're close to leveling, and gives them an idea of how well they are doing. You can make it as simple as 100 XP for each level (600 XP total for level 6), with 10 XP awarded for a successful session, and maybe 50 XP for the completion of a major storyline event. Or you could try to assign XP values to monsters, and award XP depending on what was in the scenario (reguardless of if the PC's fought and killed it or not).

Another thought is, rather than +1 or +2 weapons, you could just introduce "magical" weapons. Magical weapons and items would have special properities (like hitting ghosts and demons) that normal weapons just couldn't do, not to mention some typical D&D weapon properities (throwing/returning, flaming, etc.). It would help set the heroes appart from the normal people - finding and wielding weapons that can slay demons!

Just some thoughts.

[Dark-Penance]

Djinn here. No, I'm still not ready to continue this, but I'm getting there.

Here's currently what I like from 4e that I think G6 might adopt. Opinions are appreciated.

-Fort, Ref, and Will defenses: It's nice to be able to attack something other than AC (which I'd remove...martial attacks vs. Reflex makes more sense, and Armor would probably reduce damage).


Reflex Saves making more sense doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Dexterity factors into Armor Class as it is. The only difference is that Armor Class incorporates other factors like Size, Natural Armor, Armor, Deflections, etc., whereas a Reflex Save does not.

[Tempest Fennac]

I suppose another solution would be to have Dex contribute more towards AC: (Dex stat -10)- Armour limitations would work (eg: someone in leather armour with a Dex of 14 would have an AC of 16).

EDIT: Actually, wouldn't this be too powerful in low level games? I was just thinking about the bonuses that this system would grant to characters which need high Dex.

I decided to have a go at creating a magic system based on snsvnk's ideas. My idea is that Wizards would pick 2 schools at character creation while learing the spells at the levels which I wrote next to the spell names (due to feats not being used, Wizards should probably get less feats if this system is used). I took most of the spells from normal D&D while borrowing a few from snsvnk. (If I didn't put a comment next to the spell in regards to it's duration, it will last for as long as the normal D&D spell).

Abj: 1: (Will) Protection from (Alignment). 2: (Will) Mage Armour. 3: (1/Enc) Dispell. 5: (1/Day) Safe from Harm: +2 to all saves, +4 AC, DR 5/- (lasts 10 minutes).

Con: 1: (Will) Summon Mount (Can be dismissed as a swift action. If pony is killed or sold, caster loses 1/2 of their total HPs while being unable to cast the spell for a week). 2: (Will): Grease (only 1 area/object/person can be greased at any time). 3: (1/Enc.) Summon Nature's Ally 2. 5: (1/Day) Glitterdust (uses reflex save).

Div: 1: (Will) Tongues+Identify. 2: (Will) Detect Thoughts. 3: (1/Enc.) Unluck. 5: (1/Day): Scrying.

Enc: 1: (1/Enc.) Daze (No HD limit, uses Fortitude save.) 2: (1/Enc): Charm Person. 3 (1/Enc.) Heroism. 5: (1/Day) Dominate Person.

Evo: 1: (Will) Magic Missile. 2: (Any time a spell is used): Chose Energy type. 3: (1/Enc) Scorching Ray. 5: (1/Day) Fireball.

Ilu: 1: (1/Enc) Ghost Sound. 2: (1/Enc.) Silent Image. 3: (1/Day) Invisibility Sphere (Twice normal duration). 5: (1/Day) Major Image.

Nec: 1: (Will) Drain (1d6, 50 ft. range touch attack. +1d4 added at levels 3 and 5.) 2: (1/Enc) Cause Fear (uses Fortitude save). 3: (1/Enc) Ray of Enfeeblement. 5: (1/Day) Animate Dead (control zombies/skeletons equal to HDs.)

Tra: 1: (Will) +4 to any physical stat. 2: (1/Enc) EnlargeReduce Person. 3: (1/day.) Fly (Height limit of 80 ft., lasts for 2 minutes/caster level). 5: (1/Day) Polymorph Self (medium or large animals only. All physical stats assumed, with HP and BAB increase. Lasts for 10 minutes).

All spells which have an on going effect can be used on someone other then the caster, but only one spell can be in operation at any given time (eg: you can raise 1 person's Str by 4 using the level 1 Transmutation spell, but if you used the spell to buff someone else, the first person would no longer receve the benefits of the spell). 1/Enc. Spells can't be used again for 30 minutes once they have been used. All Wizards would also get Prestigitation and either Light, Mending or Mage Hand as At Will spells. No componants or focusses are needed for any of the spells. All spells have a Casting time of 1 Standard action. Any At Will abilities which are negated by Dispell can't be used again for 10 minutes.

EDIT: I modified Drain so that it's useful later on while not being as overpowered to start with (it just happened before without a touch attack). I also altered Fly due to how easy it was to aduse as an Evoker.

EDIT 2: Fly now 1/day to avoid Evokers and Necromancers becoming unstoppable once the opposing archers are dead. Temporary Animate Dead replaced with Cause Fear, a couple of the saves are changed so that there are less with Will saves.

EDIT 3: I thought that a modified Daze would be a better 1st tier Enchantment ability, and I thought Tiny Summon could be too powerful due to how it could be used as a scout/messager, so I replaced it with Summon Mount while altering it to stop people from using it to disarm traps.

EDIT 4: I replaced Shield with Protection from (Alignment) due to deciding that an Abjurer would want to focus on protecting other people rather then just themselves.

EDIT 5: Altered Summon Mount and Fly slightly, mentiond that Wizards don't need componants or focusses.

EDIT 6: Divination's first 2 abilities are changed as is the Abjuration capstone ability. Dispell and casting times are also mentioned in the closing paragraph.

EDIT 7: I swapped Protection from Arrows for Resist Energy due to how powerful PfA is in a setting where normal arrows are much more common. Also, due to wanting the Illusion school to be more concerned with utility, I replaced the Invisibility spell with Invisibility Sphere (I thought the other one was too powerful in a party with a Ninja or Rogue).

EDIT 8: Protection from Elements has been replaced with Mage Armour (which is now an Abjuration), and Disguise Self has been swapped out for Ghost Sound as an Encounter power.

[Pronounceable]

Reflex save for AC: I had the same conclusion backwards while working on H6 (which has already degenerated into my standard homebrew's revision). I decided to make attacking to ref identical to attacking mechanic I had (where attack and damage have been folded and hurting is determined by the difference between roll result and relevant defense [we don't need no polyhedra!]). I can see all that working as Djinn suggests with DR added.

On weapon "feats": Each weapon must offer some semiunique abiliti(es) or it won't be used. Which can be done in a number of ways all of which would involve too much effort for too much paperwork. Instead, make a passive ability for weapons which activates by Weapon Focus III. General stuff like ignore DR with piercing, increase crit range with slashing, increase multiplier with bashing...



snsvnk

It's not pronounced like that. It's not pronounced at all, but nice try.


And wtf is going on with the boards for the last 3 days? I can't see, let alone post. Maybe they'll eat this one as well...

[Lady Tialait]

I dunno, just kinda working odd...as for the re-re-reworking of magic...again, Djinn is the final word on this project, and has to take a break for personal reasons.

I like the feats as magic, almost enough to make my own variant of this system just so I can keep the feats as magic system. Mind you I would be using in such a system, a generic class. Kinda like the variant from the unearthed arcana..bonus feats for class features around the board. I love that, but it's not this system.


Again, Djinn IS taking a break and he did ask us to do the same so he wouldn't get behind on his own project.

[Tempest Fennac]

Sorry about that, cnsvnc. Also, I'm sorry about not noticing Djinn's post saying that he was taking a break (admittedly, I mainly wanted to post it while I remembeed about it).

[Lady Tialait]

It's alright Fennac, I totally understand, I currently have a notepad being slowly filled with multi-tier feats. Including the magical and Divine ones. I'm thinking of making a new feat system, with a generic class. One that goes 20 levels, but I will have to make all the feats before I post on these boards.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

It's alright Fennac, I totally understand, I currently have a notepad being slowly filled with multi-tier feats. Including the magical and Divine ones. I'm thinking of making a new feat system, with a generic class. One that goes 20 levels, but I will have to make all the feats before I post on these boards.

Is it bad that I'm judging the success of this idea by how many people it inspires to do similar things?

I think I'm doing quite well. :smallbiggrin:

[Tempest Fennac]

I don't think it's bad at all, Djinn_In_Tonic (it at least suggests thatother people like the idea).

[Pronounceable]

Is it bad that I'm judging the success of this idea by how many people it inspires to do similar things?

I think I'm doing quite well.

Yes you are.

Tempest, I tried to answer your PM twice but the asterisksesing forums ate em both. So I'll try one more time:

I always go with whatever crunch seems appropriate to fluff. Therefore, I'm not overly concerned with balance, so I'm not certain how balanced your stuff is. I'm not certain how MY stuff is balanced either. All's well if nothing's glaringly obvious. Balance is overrated anyway.

That said, I don't see much difference. Either can work.

[Sho]

Ah, seems everything is back to normal.

Any news?

[Tempest Fennac]

I changed the spell lists for my Wizard idea a lot. Have you seen them yet? If not, please could you tell me how balanced the schools are? http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4471106&postcount=178 (I still think Evication is too weak).

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

News isn't that good...my summer has been...to put it mildly...hellish. On top of that, I have a HUGE amount of work to do before college starts up...

Still, I still have hopes for this. When the time is right, this will resurface, more powerful than ever before!

[Sho]

I've always loved Dark Knights.

Here is Grandpa Gaffy's class (refitted from FFT: War of the Lions).

The Fell Knight
Hit Points: 6 [d8]

|Prerequisites|
Character Level: 3rd
Base Attack Bonus: +2
Feats: Weapon Focus (any sword)
Skills: Intimidate 6 ranks, Knowledge (Arcane) 3 ranks, Spellcraft 3 ranks

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Intelligence Modifier

{TABLE=HEAD]Class Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+0|Shadowblade 1/Encounter, Vehemence
2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+0|Aura of Dread, Duskblade 1/Encounter
3rd|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+1|Shadowblade 2/Encounter, Paragon (Foreboding Darkness)[/TABLE]

SHADOWBLADE (Su): The fell knight is a warrior of darkness that can call on the power of the night to steal away the life of his foes. At 1st level, once per encounter, the fell knight can make a ranged attack against a foe within Close Range (25 Ft. + 5 Ft. per fell knight class level) with his sword. The attack always succeeds, inflicting maximized damage against the foe, and the fell knight gains hit points equal to the damage dealt. This ability has no effect on non-living targets (Constructs, Undead). In fact, if this ability is used on an undead creature, then the undead foe attacked gains the damage as hit points, and the fell knight instead sustains the maximized damage of his attack. This ability can only be used when the fell knight is wielding the weapon for which he has the Weapon Focus feat.

At 3rd level, this ability is usable twice per encounter.

VEHEMENCE (Ex): At 1st level, during a round in which the fell knight has successfully attacked a target, the fell knight can choose to make an Intimidate skill check against that same target as an immediate action. Also, the fell knight gains a bonus to Intimidate skill checks equal to his fell knight class level.

DUSKBLADE (Su): The fell knight's fallen sword techniques steep further into the dark abyss. At 2nd level, the fell knight can perform an attack that debilitates his foe and grants himself a greater edge. Once per encounter, the fell knight can make a ranged attack against a foe within Close Range (25 Ft. + 5 Ft. per fell knight class level) with his sword. The attack always succeeds, and once the target foe is struck, the fell knight can choose one of the six attributes from which he can drain 4 points. After the fell knight chooses an attribute to drain, the struck foe essentially sustains 4 ability damage to that chosen attribute, and the fell knight gains the inflicted ability damage as a bonus to the same attribute to which he dealt the ability damage. This "drain" and the bonus added to the fell knight's attribute only last 1 minute. If the fell knight should strike another target with this ability and drains from it, then the previous target regains its previously lost points and whatever points the fell knight drained from it is lost to the fell knight. This ability can only be used when the fell knight is wielding the weapon for which he has the Weapon Focus feat.

AURA OF DREAD (Su): At 2nd level, the fell knight also exudes an aura that instills utter dread in his foes. The aura extends 10 Ft. from the fell knight, and any foes who fall within this area become Shaken (no save). Foes who leave the area remain Shaken for 1 round.

PARAGON (Foreboding Darkness) (Su): Such is the will and fervor of the fell knight, that his Intimidate skill checks no longer require line of sight or hearing; subjected targets only need to remain within 30 Ft. of the fell knight to feel his dire urge. Those who are Shaken or already under another fear effect fall one step further.

[Various]

I like this better than 4e. I'm interested to see how spells are done. When I run a game again I'm going to try out this system.

[Sho]

Bumping.

With permission, I would like to post what work has been done at a board I frequent on which the members role-play and gather for D&D as well.

Well, truthfully, I've already posted (with citation to the original thread predating to E6 and the original G6 thread on Wizards and this one), and if that should bring any discomfort, then I can remove the thread.

I hope that this should help increase the coverage and exposure, thus enabling more people to experience this variant.

Otherwise, how are things going? I still think it's quite easy to make base and prestige classes to this variant, and as such, I've produced another half-dozen. I will not presume to post them until a heads up alleviates the tedium, but I am only putting forth my like of the "system" itself.

[lvl 1 fighter]

I found this old thread, don't know if people are still interested in this. I plan on running my next campaign with E6 and will probably incorporate the base classes here. This is great stuff.

With that said, there are some game balance issues with some of the class abilities. Some are minor changes I would recommend while the other are serious issues.

I recognize the idea that these 6th level characters are more powerful than regular 6th level characters, but some of these strike me as too powerful.



Barbarian

I would change the Paragon ability to grant Fast Healing only during a Rage. FH all the time is very powerful. Granted, characters might not always have the time to wait for the Barbarian to heal up between encounters, but this ability saves the Barbarian a lot of cash and party resources when they do have the time.

Another way would to use it like the Dragon Shaman's Fast Healing aura. It's active all the time, but only kicks in when you're below half HP and only heals you up to half HP.


Fighter

Minor editing point - the Weapon Focus feat has no effect on a weapons threat range. Unless you've changed that in the slew of category feats. I haven't read them all. Either case, normal critical non-stacking rules should apply. Perhaps increase the crit multiplier instead? I dunno.

I would change the Paragon ability to take 10 on attacks to 1/ encounter. That ability is similar to part of the Weapon Supremacy fighter feat, which is nearly an Epic Feat. You have to have 18 levels of Fighter to take it.


Marshall

The Marshall has two abilities that duplicate the effects of an 11th level spell. Tactical Mastery is basically a Persistent Chained Heroics spell, and the Paragon ability is a Chained Greater Celeterity. I know these characters are supposed to be the Epic characters in the game world, but that seems a bit much.

I have no suggestion for Tactical Mastery, but I would limit the Paragon ability to a single target.


Rogue

The Paragon ability for the Rogue basically lets him tap a DC 35 Tumble check, whenever he wants to, regardless of the normal restrictions on the Skill. With the Paragon ability, he doesn't provoke AoO for moving through threatend squares, so he can move through them at his normal speed without having to need to use Tumble. Tumbling at your normal speed is +10 to the DC. Depending on whether he is going past an enemy or through his square, the DC is 25 or 35 - which he makes without having to roll.

Also, he can do this while his speed has been reduced by armor or encumbrence because he is not actually using the Tumble skill.

I would make the Take 10 on Hide / Move Silently the Paragon ability. I would rename the Stealthy ability to Silent or Stealthy. The Rogue may choose to apply a +5 insight bonus to either Hide or Move Silently. The bonus may only apply to one skill at a time and it may be changed with a swift action.


Scout

The text of the Fading Attack ability does not mention negating the penalties for moving and attacking while hiding, so a Scout using this ability will have at a minimum a -20 to his Hide check. If he moves more than half his speed it is a -25.

I would change the Paragon ability to have the Scout roll 2d20 for Initiative and simply take the highest roll.

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Just some constructive criticism. Good gaming!

[Pronounceable]

Djinn has moved on as far as I'm aware, and without a leader this thing's dead. But it did inspire me to make my own variant H6 (which also died soon after birth), and I see no reason why others wouldn't do the same.

[Lord_Gareth]

Specifically, Djinn ran into real-life issues, and may or may not return to this at a much later date.

[lvl 1 fighter]

It would be nice to see this worked on and finished, but real life does get in the way sometimes.

Here are some critiques of the PrC's.

Defender

Unlimited anything is generally a Bad Idea(tm). I'm a little uneasy as to what the CO board could come up with if they had unlimited AoO's.


Swashbuckler

The Paragon ability is crazy nuts. 1 Con damage on each hit? Well, I've got here my Swashbuckler with ITWF, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Finesse. Oh, and my Wizard friend cast Haste. Without magic or masterwork weapons, I've got +11/+11/+11/+6/+6 attacks on a full attack. (Assuming 20 DEX. easy enough to get).

Let's say 4 hit. That's 4 Con damage, or 2 HP per level. If I'm fighting a 6 HD BBEG that's 12 extra hit points. Heck, he could die from Con damage alone in 2 or 3 rounds.


Witch Hunter

I like the flavor of this class. Reminds me of the Occult Slayer. But unbeatable SR against all arcane spells and spell like abilities? Why not give him an actual number, like 10 + 1/2 lvl + Cha mod? That would be an average of 14 or 15. Given that the casters are going to have a CL anywhere from 6-9, that gives him about a 50/50 shot to resist a spell.