Anime Tabletop System - Playtesters wanted!

[Behold_the_Void]

Current Version (http://professor.fireandrobot.com/Shounen%20Rulebook%20Compilation%20v20.doc)

As I've mentioned in my Bleach D20 thread, ZebulonCrispi and I have been working on an original tabletop system to simulate the general feel of shounen anime.

The working title is Shounen, and the current rulebook is about ready to be released as I have just completed most of the text-heavy slots that were missing but crucial to the rulebook.

I am looking for playtesters interested in running a variety of games to both try out the system, see what works and what does not, and attempt to find exploits. I’m also, of course, interested in whether or not the system is fun to play, as well as what might help add to the experience and what is detracting from the experience.

I'll be detailing some basic concepts behind the system and what I'm looking for in playtesters.

The Shounen System
-Hybrid level/point system
-Designed for high levels of modularity
-Modular technique-building system to design unique attacks
-Crunch is minimally tied to fluff
-Designed for a high-powered over-the-top shounen anime feel
-Several options available for different kinds of games.
-GM support for various encounter types and game styles.
-Mechanics designed to encourage role-play in the shounen style.
-Support for Alternate Forms, Ego Weapons, and other such conventions of shounen anime.
-Designed with the intent to make every primary stat useful in some context (even the social-based attribute)

Now then, as far as playtesters are concerned...

To be a playtester, you need a group of at least 4 people (1 GM and 3 players, I might be willing to have some really small groups running on a by-arrangement basis), preferably 5-7. Preferably meeting once every one to two weeks (Again, I'm willing to work with you if otherwise, it will require arrangement). I'm willing to allow a few play-by-post, but my preference is actual tabletop for the testing since it's much faster-paced. We'll want a copy of all character sheets and encounters, as well as at least some general idea of how combat went so we can look over the builds ourselves and have greater context as to what is going on with any given playtest. Playtesters should have a set game path that they will see through to the end, I don’t want playtesters who will just play a few games and then drop it entirely.

Also playtesters should be aware that since this is still in the earlier playtesting stages, the rules are subject to dramatic change depending on the results, although the core system will remain the same. Playtest DMs should be flexible with their players and allow restructuring of characters as exploits are fixed and builds become less viable.

All playtesters will get a copy of the new versions of the documents as they are released by email. Changes are logged, and I will include a post in this thread with the major changes each time a new version is released. The speed at which new versions are released can vary depending on the playtest results coming in, so there may be several new versions released a week, although we'll try to moderate it to keep it manageable.

Finally, I am interested in playtesters who are willing to try to play games based off certain anime or video game series. Some of these games will require certain rule modifications, support will be provided. If you're interested in any of the following series, please say so in your post:

Bleach (Ego Weapons and Alternate Forms)
Naruto (Should be about standard)
One Piece (Not sure about this one I don't personally watch it)
Pokemon (Permanent Alternate Forms, possible Alternate leveling and technique system)
Digimon (Should be at about standard play level)
Slayers (No alternate forms)
Tokyo Majin (Lower-powered, Grittier)

Other series you are interested in attempting to duplicate are, of course, most welcome. The above are just some examples off the top of my head that might need a bit of tweaking that I want to make available in the eventual alternate rules section.

Mecha rules aren't available yet, we're getting the base system down first before we expand to that. That being said, the current rules can be applied to a mecha series without too much difficult.

If you're interested in playtesting, please post here with your group size and what you're interested in doing, game-wise. Also, this thread will be used for discussion on the system fiddly bits, I don't mind discussions of the mechanics in this thread, so feel free to exchange information about what does and does not work. Hopefully we can get some good playtest games going.

I am available to answer any questions or comments both in this thread and via email or Instant Messenger.

AIM: BeholdtheVoid
MSN/email: [email protected]

[Xuincherguixe]

I've kind of been wanting to run a Naruto (out of the village hidden in the trash) or bleach game for awhile.

I'm familiar with the show, but I'm not quite sure how I'd pull off a Slayers campaign.

One Piece is ... kind of unlike anything else. It'd be a bit of a challenge to do that one I think.

Whatever it is, I can I probably manage something weird though. Which is probably a good direction to go in to see how much the rules can be stretched.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I'm game as either a player or GM. Since most of my dnd books are in another state (still, dangit) this'll give me something to play with. I'm recovering for a near fatal wreck, so I have TONS of time to devote to the project.

[Behold_the_Void]

Sounds good. Either PM or post an email and I'll add you guys to the mailing list and send you the file. If you encounter anything that is difficult to understand in the file or some glaring grammatical/spelling errors, please let me know as well. I'll clarify as best I can and it'll help me polish the file. Since you're the first posters, go ahead and take first picks of the series you want to try to emulate (if any).

[Collin152]

Looks interesting.
My email is... innacessible at the moment, but I'd totally play a Bleach or Naruto game, if only I had a group.

[otakulrd86]

Sounds very interesting, just ut of curiosity, does anyone remember an anime called Yu Yu Hakusho, was kind of like DBZ meets Bleach, before Bleach was even heard of.

[Behold_the_Void]

Go ahead and shoot me a PM if you ever get a group together Colin, I may be able to transfer the file through that.

And I do indeed remember Yu Yu Hakusho, still reading it in my sister's Shounen Jump whenever I go home. A Yu Yu Hakusho game should be viable within the system.

[Bayar]

Definately interested in helping out. Since I enjoy playing in PVP tournaments, it wouldnt be to hard to find exploits and overpowered stuff. And I could start a campaign with the local D&D group as soon as we finish with our exams :smallbiggrin: (PS: Email in profile)

[Mr_Arcane]

I must say that I am intrigued by this. I would like to help, and with summer coming up, me and my group have plenty of time.

[Behold_the_Void]

By now everyone should have a copy of the system except bayar, who I will need to respond to my email since I can't send attachments over email contact on the site. Xuincherguixe gave me some good first impressions, and I look forward to hearing from all of you.

What I'd like now is to hear what kinds of games you guys are thinking of running, so I can prepare support for variants if necessary (this kind of thing will be included in the GM Section upon the release but it's still in the process of being made, hence why I want to see how far the system can be stretched and what can be done with slight modification).

Also, any questions or comments on the system are more than welcome, it helps us make sure the document is clear, concise, and all that other good stuff. Thanks again all, I much appreciate your efforts. And anyone else interested in testing - this is still (and will remain) open indefinitely.

[Lord Firedrake]

Hey, this seems rather interesting I would be able to slap together a group of about 2-3 players within' 1-2 weeks of this post I am willing to Try any anime. I want to run a Bleach game, I can run a DBZ game and I will not run a Naruto game. I would be able to play every week and have a progress report every 2 weeks. If any further info is needed please let me know.

[Xuincherguixe]

I didn't write my comments here, because I was under the impression we wheren't supposed to say too much about the game, since Behold The Void mentioned publishing this. And, it would get confusing to anyone who hadn't seen the rules.

I'll copy what I wrote here, since it seems like that wasn't the case.



I finished reading the rules yesterday, but by that point it had been quite awhile since I had slept. And for the same reasons I'll go over it again.

There were some great lines in there, like the one about "the power of friendship". I love how there's an incentive not to attack people during those points where it's really obvious they should attack.

Not that it would stop me from attacking people during their monologue :P



That being said, it seems like some choices are going to be a lot better than others. Strength gives me the impression that it's the best attribute. Extra hit points, attack, and defense against every type of attack.

The division between magic and spirit attacks seems like it could cause some trouble.

Most settings would have one or the other, but not both. And in some, it's the same thing. (How would you even begin to differentiate the techniques in Naruto?) What's going to be the difference between a magical fireball and a spiritual fireball?

In a world without magic, or spiritual attacks, would it really be worth it to increase mind, or spirit? And, if both exist, would it be worth it to focus on both?

It seems to me that Spirit, giving greater aura, is going to be a better choice than getting a lot of mind.

And, there might be a few weird things, like let's say Psionics. Being as that sounds more like the domain of mind, it'd make sense to treat it like a spell.



The Mimic Core strikes me as having the potential to being a superior choice, if the players build their characters around each other. Which may not actually be a bad thing. "The power of team work" and all.

Illusion Core is either going to be hideously powerful, or completely useless. If it isn't immediately removed, it could be incredible for battlefield control. It could be used to make the enemy attack each other, keep them distracted while they get beat on like crazy, move them away while their buddies get beaten up. And that doesn't even count it's usefulness in non combat situations. Tricking people into giving you keys and such. Most importantly though, it's going to be excessive amounts of fun. "Nii-San, why is that dog riding an elephant?" "... Are you on drugs again?" "I keep telling you! I'm not on drugs!" "... Right."


Still, it's off to an interesting start.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I'm still slogging my way through the rules, but I agree completely about the tilt towards Str. Of course, given how the genre tends to lean in favor of the strong, but stupid, good guy over the supernatural, and brilliant, bad guy... I'm not caught off guard by that in the slightest. :smalltongue:

[Xuincherguixe]

Now that someone else has posted, I can say some more without double posting (I wanted to do this in a seperate post, because the above one was pretty long. More organized like this)

Playtesting should reveal if any choices are much superior than others. When I wrote the above, I was thinking that when I start examining combinations, what to look at.

My impression has been that the point of this is that "everyone gets to kick ass". And, that play testing is to ensure that everyone does in fact, get to kick ass.


I'm giving some thought to writing a program which will compare the various possible builds. But I'm not entirely sure how to go about that. It's probably not going to be too hard to generate each of the millions of possible characters, but after that it gets a bit confusing.

Naturally, the millions should be forced to fight each other in a massive climactic battle which will largely go unrecognized, and will quickly be forgotten. But how should the poor creatures fight? What answers are we looking for?

A lot of random fights isn't going to give so much information as it will be completely useless. There needs to be some sort of organization to it.

If, they fought each other, attacking based on perceived weaknesses, it wouldn't be complete.

Another option is that for every opponent, they do every possible combination of abilities. (And, for when randomness is a factor, each possible result). The fights themselves would also be stored, there can be some sorts, and... we could see who had the most wins.

Seems that in talking about this I found my answer. Rather than deleting all of that, I'll leave this up as part of my thought process.


Another possibility, I was considering, is having each character use some kind of AI, to defeat each other. But, that might not really give very good answers.


Now I need to decide if I'm dealing with a large dataset (the kind any modern computer can deal with easily), or if I'm dealing with a stupidly large dataset (The kind which I'll need to make it a distributed thing, which I don't have a lot of experience with).

The advantage to this, is that it should be pretty easy to retest things after changes. If it takes hours to test each of those minor changes, probably not a good idea to do so at each step.

[Bayar]

The easier solution is to get some guys from the WotC optimisation boards :smallbiggrin:

They can make a tac-nuke out of anything.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

"Bubblegum and a paperclip? I can work with that." If very much a CharOp thing.

[Behold_the_Void]

I don't mind discussing the mechanics in this thread, I'm just not publishing the entire document. It's kind of like how they're publishing all kinds of 4e information but (at least for awhile) it wasn't enough to be playable on.

Also, regarding Attributes we understand that several will likely be stronger choices, but we know we can't make all attributes completely balanced. Instead, we're trying to make them all important, viable choices.

Also, interesting note, the high strength/agility tank build in one of the lower-level arena matches went down first. Part of that may have been bad rolls on his part though.

[Xuincherguixe]

Also, interesting note, the high strength/agility tank build in one of the lower-level arena matches went down first. Part of that may have been bad rolls on his part though.

Perhaps, you should just assume everything is a 5 or 6, for these things?


I haven't gone over everything with a fine toothed comb. The High Strength character needs a way to attack at a distance, or get in close enough. Otherwise it definitely is not "the win" attribute.

[Bayar]

He should get a very big throwing weapon.

[Behold_the_Void]

You can technically get a strength-based range attack off a large thrown weapon, but that requires GM compliance. This system is built differently than D&D, while I'm trying to exacerbate as much "by RAW" stupidity, most of it will be handled in the GM section where I intend to explain how to handle and adjudicate most matters that may come up when the system is intentionally left looser for more versatility and interesting character design.

A Strength and Agility-centric build, I've noticed, tends to suffer a lack of utility. They have less energy for boosts, and tend to be susceptible to weaken cores, aura crushing, and intuition tricks.

[Xuincherguixe]

He should get a very big throwing weapon.

I had to go look at the rules again. Looks like large thrown weapons do in fact use strength.


It goes without saying that I'm trying to break the game at this point. Because that's how you determine if anything is broken ^_^.

I think you've said it yourself, but characters don't even need to be equal, just that they're all contributing.

I also think that nearly any build will be able to do that. And ironically, it looks like what I came up with, with the thought of being able to take and deal lots of damage, may be something that contributes less.

Which is a good sign.

[Behold_the_Void]

One can always hope. The utility skills and technique cores are surprisingly powerful if built properly.

And please, break it wide open, that's what I want ^_^

I'm just relating information from the tests we've already done ourselves whenever the issue comes up.

[ZebulonCrispi]

Sup, other developer here.

In response to Xuincherguixe's comments, my suggestion was that maybe it'd be possible to have four Defense attributes, to go with the four Attack attributes, thus lending some more value to the non-Strength stats. Sound viable?

[Xuincherguixe]

Another thought, is that if some attributes aren't as useful, that some of the derived stats could be increased by more than one attribute. But first we need to see if they actually are unbalanced.

[Dragonus45]

I would love to be involved in the playtesting for this and i know my gameing group would be up for it.

[Behold_the_Void]

You're welcome to playtest, Dragonus, just give me an email I can send the file to.

[CompositeSanta]

Me and my gaming group love Anime, and we all agree we would like to try your system. Including me as a DM, we have 4 people, and can probably get another if necessary. My email is [email protected] .

The kinds of Campaigns I have considered are:
Hunter x Hunter
Jojo's Bizzare Adventures (I already have some work done for this)
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Maybe?)
and One Piece

[Mr_Arcane]

Okay, here's my little report:

First Meeting: Got some people to help playtest. After waiting a while, only two of my three gamer girls showed up. We deliberated and some phone calls were made, and we decided on a game based on Blood+. So far, we haven't had any trouble with the system. We hope to get our third character made soon, then we can start playing and taking a look at the good, bad, and the slightly off-kilter.

Our list of possible choices ranged from classics such as Ronin Warriors and Outlaw Star, to more current stuff like Dot.Hack and Bleach. Our final list was thus: Blood+, Ruroni Kenshin, Ghost in the Shell, FLCL, and Battle Royal. Obviously, Blood+ was picked. If all things somehow go down the toilet, we might just have a sort of default generic anime world.

[Behold_the_Void]

Interesting list you guys had there. I will say Battle Royale may not be very successful in this system, as I understand it (I've not actually watched it myself but several of my friends are quite fond of it, nobody I know has read the manga) it's more of a horror, no real power-based setting. Although one of the things we may release later after the core rules have been finalized is a supplement for series with more of a horror or psychological bent, but it's likely going to be more along the lines of Lain and Evangelion than Battle Royale.

Don't forget to send me the character sheets you guys put together. Email or PM, whatever works.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I'm getting the system spread to my gaming group, we have no set theme as of yet. I'm guessing we'll go with something absurd like One Piece.

[Xuincherguixe]

I was thinking of trying One Piece, since that seems like it's going to be the setting that's the real test of a generic system.

But, as this is play testing, I realized that my goal should be to see which combinations are the most broken.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

One Peace is great for that because everything is so goofy that ANY build makes sense within the setting.

[Xuincherguixe]

One Peace is great for that because everything is so goofy that ANY build makes sense within the setting.

I was thinking about that no one really uses magic. But I just now realized that if there was a Wizard Pirate he'd fit in perfectly.

[CompositeSanta]

I think Hunter x Hunter would work very well with this system. It has aspects that represent pretty much all of the important parts of Nen.

[Lord Firedrake]

I'll be starting up a Bleach game with this system I am still trying to create a Character Sheet for the system If any one has a Digital copy of a prototype character sheet they can send me I would be Very grateful. My game starts on this Saturday.

[Behold_the_Void]

Actually I have a proto-character sheet that I was intending to send out after a few more revisions were made. I can send that to you now if you'd like, Firedrake.

Also for Bleach I suggest Alternate Forms at 3rd and 13th level with a possible Vizard Mask at 8th if allowed. The Alt Forms of course representing Shikai and Bankai.

[Lord Firedrake]

Sounds good, Thanks for the sheet and I am a little confused. Is the Standard enemy the Elite?

[DarkLightDragon]

If its not too late, I'm willing to join a game as a player. I only have knowledge of Pokemon and Digimon (I used to watch them as a kid) but I've been meaning to watch other anime and am willing to do a movie marathon with the episodes if anyone would like me in a game.

[Behold_the_Void]

Sounds good, Thanks for the sheet and I am a little confused. Is the Standard enemy the Elite?

I think one of us accidentally started using Elite and didn't switch them all over, but yes, Standard = Elite. Elite references should be mostly changed, they weren't supposed to be there in the first place but we've been reading 4e preview stuff a lot.


If its not too late, I'm willing to join a game as a player. I only have knowledge of Pokemon and Digimon (I used to watch them as a kid) but I've been meaning to watch other anime and am willing to do a movie marathon with the episodes if anyone would like me in a game.

I don't think there's an online game going at the moment, but I am open to one on the boards since there seem to be a good number of people who want to play but don't have a group for it. If anyone wants to get one together, I'll send all the players a copy of the book.

[Nakun]

If you are still looking for playtesters, I just got on Summer Break and I could have a group together in like two days tops.

[HellFencer]

I've got a group coming together soon, after my baby boy arrives. We're still trying to decide what to play, and I'm pretty sure they'd get into an anime game. I once ran an anime game where the characters played themselves, and cosplayed as their favorite anime/video game character at Japan's largest anime convention "JAPANICON!!" It was loads of fun. Ifrit made an appearance and burnt down a good section of town. :D

I would end up being the GM, probably, and have at least 4 players. I would more than likely run a GMPC just to test out how one-armed, wind-wielding samurai's function.... >_>

[Behold_the_Void]

I'll need some emails and I can get the rulebook compilation sent out.

Also, those playtesters who have the books already, how goes the formation of the campaigns? I've only heard from one of you thus far, so I'd like to know how the playtesting is coming.

[Xuincherguixe]

I'm a terrible procrastinator, so I haven't gotten anything done yet.

I've also kind of decided the best way to do this is with some kind of program to test all the possible builds.

If I do decide to do one of my absolutely ridiculous games, I'll put up a post about it.

[Behold_the_Void]

Sounds good, just let me know how it goes.

[Nakun]

Got the rules. I'll start reading, unless of course my power goes out, sorry, storm coming...

I think I'll have somewhere between 3 and 5 players total, I'm thinking of running something that's a mix of FMA and D Gray Man.

I'll post back when I get more info from the group and such.

[Nakun]

Sorry to double post, quick question, I don't see willpower on the character sheet. My guess is that willpower is the new name for heroics, since I don't seen heroics in the attributes or secondary attributes section.

Is this right?

[Behold_the_Void]

Sorry this is a bit late, I've been preoccupied with other things. Will is it's own stat, it rises by 1 every turn and is consumed to make attacks or makes you stronger as it increases. The mechanics for it should be in there somewhere. Heroics are different, they're kind of like action points on steroids.

I've been messing with the character sheet, but Will hasn't been included in it since it's a variable number and I haven't quite figured out what I want to do with it.

[AlterForm]

I'd be willing to join a playtest on the boards, since my DnD group probably wouldn't be up for running one IRL.

This project sounds really cool; I'll have to take note to check it out once it releases if I don't get in on a playtest. :smallsmile:

[Collin152]

I'm with Alterform.
I could do a Play by Post, but it doesn't seem to interest my flesh-friends.

[AlterForm]

Alternatively, we could try it on a VTT.

[Collin152]

Alternatively, we could try it on a VTT.

VTT?
I'm in ur white spot, takin up space.

[AlterForm]

VTT?


Ironically enough, I thought to myself: "what if they don't know what a VTT is?" :smallsigh:

VTT = Virtual Tabletop. My personal favorite is MapTool; the other free option is OpenRPG.

[EDIT TO AVOID TOTAL DERAILMENT]: Not to get ahead of ourselves, but I could show the group how to use MapTool, and there are several tutorial videos to watch. 'Course, we need a group first. :smallwink:

[Collin152]

I got maptool and accesroies downloaded, but I can never work out how to use them.

[Behold_the_Void]

The other volunteers seem more or less silent, so if you guys can set something up, let me know and I'll send along the file.

[AlterForm]

Would you mind us advertising for the game in the Pickup forum to get the other players? We need to pick up 2-4 more players it looks like.

[Behold_the_Void]

Not in the least.

[Collin152]

So, if that little PbP game gets up, I'll need the rules, right?
So, my email...
[email protected]

I'll see bout getting access to it again.

[Behold_the_Void]

All right, sent. I'm tinkering with the character sheet right now, when you are ready to post the game I will send that to you as well.

[Mindflayer]

I would like to try playtesting my e-mail is [email protected] (sorry for such a late post my friends just got back from a trip so I was able to ask them)

[AlterForm]

My e-mail:

mkartmaster
(at)gmail.com

I'll have the rest of the players get you their email once the group is formed.

[Collin152]

Which makes me think... Who's goign to DM this?

[AlterForm]

If no one steps up to GM the game, we could run a series of "episodes" :smallwink: with each player making a short adventure to test the system at a few levels of play. This has the advantages of letting everyone play for most of the time, and giving a more thorough workout of the system in a smaller period of time. In fact, we could even run a couple simultaneously in theory. If we this route, we probably want to pick up one more player than we currently have.

Also, I'm reading through the rules and I'm seeing what appear to be a handful of errors. I'll read through it again later and post anything that looks to me like an error.

[Behold_the_Void]

Yes, please post all errors, that's how they get fixed.

I haven't added it to the GM fluff and tips yet, but an "arc" should be about 5 levels worth of play, and 2-3 sessions per level. That's a good way to plan an in-person game.

[Collin152]

The "Increasing and Decreasing Attack, Defense, and Resistance" section needs a lot of cleaning up, for one.
Still reading, will report errors as I see them.

Some flaws refer to themselves as skills.

The use of indentation in the Skills section is aesthetically unpleasing and makes it difficult to read the information. it needs revision.

What is the significance of the Speed entry on the skills?
If its related to levelignthe skills, I notice that Fixed rate skills also have it. is it related to actions? This should be clearer and stated before the Skills are listed.

Elemental Resistance states that it increases defence, but on the level up section it says it decreases attack by larger amounts. While it means the same thing, it should read the same way on both parts.

Do I understand the Spiritual form power correctly in that, when the form with that attribute is used, you gain Energy equal to 5 times the number of levels you have in Spiritual?

[AlterForm]

Just finished reading, and the biggest annoyance for me is the lack of diagonal movement. Is there any reason for this? Going with the 1-1-1 system for diagonal movement increases combat mobility and maximizes simplicity (IMO).

Might have to hold off on the error report for tomorrow.

Also, I love modular/point-based systems. Class-based is fun, but building your character "from scratch" just feels more natural to me.

[Collin152]

I agree on the modular system being more natural. It's also much more flexible.
I love what I'm seeing, it just needs polishing.

[Behold_the_Void]

From the top.


The "Increasing and Decreasing Attack, Defense, and Resistance" section needs a lot of cleaning up, for one.
Still reading, will report errors as I see them.

Yeah, we noticed that as soon as that update went live. Probably going to rewrite it completely myself.


Some flaws refer to themselves as skills.

The use of indentation in the Skills section is aesthetically unpleasing and makes it difficult to read the information. it needs revision.

Will fix both.


What is the significance of the Speed entry on the skills?
If its related to levelignthe skills, I notice that Fixed rate skills also have it. is it related to actions? This should be clearer and stated before the Skills are listed.

I was sure that was going to cause problems, but it is related to the speed at which you level. Fixed skills are taken and do not level at all, it's explained earlier with a table but I will try to find new words to use to keep confusion down.


Elemental Resistance states that it increases defence, but on the level up section it says it decreases attack by larger amounts. While it means the same thing, it should read the same way on both parts.

I'll polish that one up.


Do I understand the Spiritual form power correctly in that, when the form with that attribute is used, you gain Energy equal to 5 times the number of levels you have in Spiritual?

Yes. That is correct.


Just finished reading, and the biggest annoyance for me is the lack of diagonal movement. Is there any reason for this? Going with the 1-1-1 system for diagonal movement increases combat mobility and maximizes simplicity (IMO).

Might have to hold off on the error report for tomorrow.

Also, I love modular/point-based systems. Class-based is fun, but building your character "from scratch" just feels more natural to me.

I've been considering doing that for diagonal movement, that's a REALLY old rule and the system works optimally in hexes, which is really the preferred map. I will probably have that updated.

And I'm glad you all seem to like the basic feel. Polishing is what we're here for.

[Collin152]

So, precision attacks seem to refer mostly ot ranged attacks, but it would also be used for say, pressure points, right?

[Behold_the_Void]

So, precision attacks seem to refer mostly ot ranged attacks, but it would also be used for say, pressure points, right?

Pressure points, katana trickery, it's all good. Basically attacks that are more speed or finesse-based damage than crushing power based damage. The attack types are kind of rough guidelines to let you get the flavor you want.

[Mindflayer]

So attack rolls are 1d10+accuracy vs. 1d10+evasion. That could use some clarification.

[Collin152]

So, all means of attacking take the form of techniques.
So, a punch is a Technique?

Just finished readign through it. It seems pretty solid.
I'll continue looking for specific thigns that need improvement as we begin our playtest.

The Illusion core should be compatible with more mods, like Ranged Attack.

[OverWilliam]

Where can I look at the full rules as they stand now and/or download them? I'm looking at joining the playtest as well and am very intrigued. No no, I said playtest, and intrigued. Get your mind out of the gutter. :smallannoyed:




(Before you ask, No, that's not supposed to make sense. http://209.85.12.232/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[Collin152]

Give our gracious author your email adress, and he will provide you with them.

Also, since we seem to be at that point, he should probably fork over the character sheets.

[Carinthium]

I'm currently in a playtest http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84893 here, so can I have a copy of the rules?

[Behold_the_Void]

I am sending out the character sheet to everyone on the more recent mailing list. Anybody in the game who needs it can just PM me with their email address and I'll send them the rules, AlterForm, you have my permission to send the rules and character sheets out to the players. Any questions regarding the system mechanics can be posted here or PMed/Emailed/IMed to me.

AIM: BeholdtheVoid
MSN/email: [email protected]

[AlterForm]

My list of errors/clarifications:

(These are based on my cold-read of the rules, so what I see might not mesh with reality)

General: Haven't had a chance to reread the technique rules, but there should be a way to create a technique with 0 EN cost so you never run out of stuff to do in battle.

General: "Attack" and "Damage" seem to be used interchangeably. Pick one or the other and make everything that references the concept use that word. I'd recommend "Damage" since it seems to be what most people would think of for the concept.

Pg5: Attributes. Suggest changing section to "Primary Attributes" to prevent confusion when skills/techniques reference "attributes" in general.

Pg5: Assigning Attributes. Might be clearer if worded as "When creating a character, you begin with 25 Attribute Points to assign to your 5 attributes. These points are spent on a 1-for-1 basis, and no attribute can be brought above 8 in this way. Your attributes can increase over the course of your games; see Page X for information regarding this."

Pg5: Strength. Renaming it "Physique" might cut back on confusion from players like myself who learned the power/toughness strength/constitution pair from other RPGs while still conveying its purpose.

Pg6: Hit Points. It mentions HP represent what you can take before you are "incapacitated or killed," but doesn't expand on what death means in the system. I can't find any mention of dying elsewhere in the system either.

Pg8: As mentioned, this section needs some work.

Pg9: "Calculating Attack" should probably be renamed "Calculating Damage"

Pg9: Willpower. The last sentence of the first paragraph of this section would read better if it was "If your Willpower reaches 20, your Attack increases by one level. This level does not count towards the usual restriction of only 2 increases in level to Attack." Also, if Willpower is supposed to be a dynamic attribute, it should (IMO) have more impact on the battle. Maybe flat bonuses of +/- 10 damage/defense every so many points of Willpower? Also also, why the limit of 10 Willpower from round bonuses?

Pg10: Flaws. Recommend adding a note that Flaws are itended to be actual flaws, and should not be taken unless they would actually hinder the characters in some way. ie, don't take "Inept Driver" in a world without vehicles.

Pg10: Recommend changing last sentence of second paragraph to "This is generally discouraged without good reason, as flaws are intended to help make characters distinctive and interesting, while giving equivalent bonuses in exchange for their penalties." This helps cement them as a mechanical and RP aspect of the system.

Pg11: Dependent. It is listed as +5/5 SP, but no level-up information is given. I assume it is supposed to be +5 for every extra dependent?

Pg12: Lack of Control looks underpowered to me. With a maxed-out technique at level 1, it's an extra 20 EN to use it. A level 20 character might have around 500-700 EN, and if they use a level-20 technique they only get 5ish uses (5*20 = +100 EN to use). If my math is right, you should decrease the energy cost somehow or grant more SP.

Pg13,14: Weak Attacker/Aura/Defender. Since these attributes seem to come up a lot, bumping these flaws to +15 SP is probably warranted.

Pg14: Skills Progression Speeds. Judging by the table, Slow skills should have a maximum level of character level / 4 rounded up. It currently reads character level / 3 up.

Pg15+: Skills. By this point, the action system has not been introduced. You should either move the actions description before this section and add something about what "Speed:Fast/Med/Slow" means, or change the references here (and possibly earlier if there are any) from "Speed:Fast/Med/Slow" to "Action:Fast/Med/Slow."

Pg16: Flying. Is the extra 20 EN to stay aloft indefinitely, or for one more round? Also, does flying introduce 3d movement (elevations), or is binary (flying/not flying)?

Pg16: Fusion. What does "+10 Attack per attribute point" mean?

Pg17: Healing. If I've understood the action system correctly, you cannot move and heal the same turn. Depending on how mobile combat is in the system, this may be a bad thing. Decrease to Medium Action, if applicable.

Pg17: Prior Preparation. Something bothers me here. Can't put my finger on it, though.

Pg17: Spirit Sight. Change last sentence to "This expenditure of energy does not take any action," to prevent possible misconstruings.

Pg19: Wealth. This is, as far as I can tell, the only way to spend SP in increments of something other than 5. Because of this, it should simply allow spending 5 SP to gain +5 wealth.

Pg20: Discrete Aura. Should read "...must succeed at an opposed Spirit roll..."

Pg20: Darksight. Should read "You can identify the space targets occupy in the dark..."

Pg20: Elemental Resistance. Effect should probably be "Defense or Resistance, whichever applies to the particular attack, is increased by 100 for that attack." Level up should be "Increase attribute by a further 100 for the attack."

Pg22: Crisis. Level Progressions is listed as "character level / 3"; should be "Medium."

Pg22: "Elemental Mastery" is not italicized.

Pg23: Energy Burn. Holy ****. Little harsh, I think. Either cut the cost in half (10 times half the amount of energy you would burn normally, round up) or remove the clause about "cannot use this unless you could not normally use it." It's obviously meant as a last-ditch effort, but it just doesn't seem worth it at the moment.

Pg25: Deflect. Needs a rewrite. I could try to figure what should be saying what, but...well, yeah.




Will add more, just posting to save my work so far.

[Collin152]

I wonder:
Suppose a technique had the limitation that it required a substantial body of water present (IE, a technique controlling the water.)
Wouldn't that count as a limitation?
I have ideas, you see...

[Behold_the_Void]

Currently fixing AlterForm's suggestions, some of them require discussion with the other designer.


I wonder:
Suppose a technique had the limitation that it required a substantial body of water present (IE, a technique controlling the water.)
Wouldn't that count as a limitation?
I have ideas, you see...

We've considered a limit like that, we have yet to quantify it yet. I will attempt to get that in the next update.

Edit: With regards to the Energy Burn skill, it's intended to be significantly more damaging than the Health Limit, which allows you to design a technique with that in mind in order to take less damage. Energy Burn lets you take damage if you've run out of ammunition or energy but desperately need to keep fighting, so it naturally causes more damage than if you had build the technique with the intent of taking damage when you use it.

[OverWilliam]

I'm looking at a custom flaw for my character and I'd like to get you guys' opinion on it.

Unhealing Wound

You received a wound in your past that, through enchantment on the opponent's weapon, a special technique used to inflict it, or some other reason, has never fully healed.
Effect: Permanently reduce HP by set amount, relative to wound's severity (I'm saying 100-- it's a long gash from his left hip upward to his left shoulder). Enemies with knowledge of the wound prior to the current engagement can take a -3 on their attack roll to hit the pre-existing wound for a guaranteed critical.
Value: No idea, that's mostly what I'm asking you guys for.

I know exactly how much having this flaw could screw my character over. I'm mostly looking for how to do it right, and not so much "Dude, that's kinda harsh... You might want to dial that back a bit" type comments, if that was your first reaction. Though I do appreciate the concern. :smallwink:

[AlterForm]

Well, since they get a chance at getting what is effectively attack level +1 some of the time, we should look at similar flaws. Weak Defender is the closest you're going to get, which grants 10 SP on its own, and this is a bit less of a flaw due to the restriction.

You also take that flat penalty of -100 HP, which is equivalent to having the Fragile flaw for 5 levels. Fragile grants +10 SP at its lowest level, and +15 SP if you make it -40 HP/level. Because the HP penalty is going to be less and less important as you level up, and thus not a constant flaw, it's worth less IMO.

Putting these together, I'd price the flaw at +15 SP, maybe +5 for every extra 100 HP you lose.

[AlterForm]

More notes! :smallbiggrin:


General: As far as I can tell, damage for a technique is static. It looks like you're going for a streamlined system so far (a single rolloff for every attack), but with static damage every attack battles might get monotonous. If the players realize that the enemie(s) have a damage score of 370 vs their defense score of 240, they can calculate exactly how many hits they'll take until they drop. Adding a die roll to damage (I'd recommend 10 times the value of a d10 (for system consistency) or a d6 (for smaller variance)) might make the battles feel more dynamic, but at the cost of speed. Something to think about.

Pg26: Fractions. The Analysis skill might not be the first instance of this, but are uneven fractions rounded up or down? Most fractions seem to be rounded up, but the skill doesn't say either way.

Pg26: Fighting Spirit, Hardened Defense. Didn't notice these before my comment about willpower not having much effect on battle. This is what I was looking for, so my point is moot methinks.


Computer's acting up at the moment, will add more soon.

[Behold_the_Void]

More notes! :smallbiggrin:


General: As far as I can tell, damage for a technique is static. It looks like you're going for a streamlined system so far (a single rolloff for every attack), but with static damage every attack battles might get monotonous. If the players realize that the enemie(s) have a damage score of 370 vs their defense score of 240, they can calculate exactly how many hits they'll take until they drop. Adding a die roll to damage (I'd recommend 10 times the value of a d10 (for system consistency) or a d6 (for smaller variance)) might make the battles feel more dynamic, but at the cost of speed. Something to think about.

Pg26: Fractions. The Analysis skill might not be the first instance of this, but are uneven fractions rounded up or down? Most fractions seem to be rounded up, but the skill doesn't say either way.

Pg26: Fighting Spirit, Hardened Defense. Didn't notice these before my comment about willpower not having much effect on battle. This is what I was looking for, so my point is moot methinks.


Computer's acting up at the moment, will add more soon.

The static damage is mitigated by the fact that most characters start with 3 or 4 techniques and gain many, many more over the course of their adventure. Sure, X technique is going to hit you for the same amount of damage every time (assuming they don't ever boost or anything), but they're not liable to use the same technique EVERY turn, especially since Cooldown 1 or 2 is such an easy mod to throw on most of your techniques.

Fractions always round up, thus far we've specified with every instance. I may make a blanket rule in an easy-to-find location and omit that everywhere, but for now I'll update that.

Also note that Will is expended with the Will limit, and we're likely going to add a healing system based on expending will as well. Will is important.

[AlterForm]

Pg27-29: Aura/Intuitive/Resolute Resistance. The Special looks like a copy/paste error; it should read "...you cannot take [X] Resistance or [Y] Resistance," instead of referencing [X]/[Y] Defense.

Pg30: Violent Aura. Does not have a SP cost listed.

Pg30: Should there be an "Overpowering Resistance" skill, since +1 level of attack can apply to all 4 kinds of attacks, while +1 level of defense only applies to 2?

Pg35: Nitpick. Last sentence of "Upgrading Techniques." "Techs" should be "Techniques" for consistency, since I haven't seen "Techs" used anywhere else, and it just looks like shorthand for no reason.

Pg36: Illusion Core. It tells you what you need to know, but I think it could be clearer. Maybe saying "You make an ensnare check (suchandsuch) versus the target's escape check (suchandsuch). Special: The target gains a bonus of +1 to their check every turn."

Pg37: How is the sealed ability chosen? GM's choice? Player's choice? Random?

Pg42: Push Attack. At this point I realized some skills/techniques referenced "moderate actions," and Push Attack references a "normal action." Judging by the Actions section on page 52, these should actually be a "medium action." I might catalogue all of these later.


That's all for this morning. I hope you don't mind my lists of feedback; I'm just being neurotic and going over it with a fine-toothed comb. :smallbiggrin:

[OverWilliam]

I'm having a little trouble with a Limit for a technique. The technique is basically a multiple thrown kunai deal, so I'm thinking the Ranged Attack mod and the Ammunition Limit. However, the Ammunition Limit doesn't really seem to work the way I'd like it to...


Ammunition Limit
Applicable to: Damage Core, Boost Core, Weaken Core
Effect: You can only use this technique a limited number of times per encounter.
Value: 4 - Limit Level
Cost reduction: 25 * Limit Level
Special: Cannot take Limit above level 3.

I wonder if this limit shouldn't have two types of limiting, or if it shouldn't be two limits altogether. There's true Ammunition Limit, which literally refers to how much ammunition you have to use for it, and then there's Fatigue Limit, which refers to the character running out of energy for a technique. The Limit as it stands now seems to be geared toward the character running out of stamina for a technique. However, that doesn't really apply to all techniques that need a limit based on ammunition. 'Kunai Rain,' as I'm calling it, will be my character's primary mode of attack, and it seems to me that it would be a lot more true to the idea if it was limited by how much ammo (how many knives) he has on hand instead of running out of ammo this fight and then magically having four more attacks worth next round that he for some reason didn't use when he needed them last time. I suppose the technique could work jerry-rigging this limit to fit the intent, but it isn't terribly true to the concept (however, I wonder if it wouldn't be true to the setting... this explains why some characters in Shounen anime use different attacks that fail even though the ones they were using seconds ago were working just fine... :smallamused:).

A 'Fatigue Limit' would repair itself in the time between fights, but running out of knives wouldn't, because if you're out you're out.

EDIT:
I've been doing some more thinking on this, and I believe it would be a lot simpler to simply replace EN cost with Ammo cost. To perform the technique I need to use up three Kunai, and I'd have, say, 20 or so on hand, to be replenished at towns and the like, taken for granted because kunai would be cheap and effectively below half of my 'wealth' stat, no problem. Would that be acceptable?

[AlterForm]

Interesting. If we wanted a generic version, I'd go with "so many ammo per extended rest," but for a specific instance that looks fine to me.

However, when I was mulling over ideas for a kunai-based technique in my head, I figured an ammo limit would work as written since you can probably recollect your kunai at the end of the battle.

[OverWilliam]

Hmm... Point. I suppose that would be a lot less hassle as far as having to keep up with things goes... And what if I'm away from a town or the like for an extended period of time? Then I'd be having to recycle weapons anyways, so all the extra legwork for nothing. I do like the idea that I can have an attack (if a limited one) that doesn't require EN to use... Although being able to use an attack without EN that does the same amount of damage has definite balance issues. I'd like to get BtV's take on it.

I think it was Collin that asked about something as simple as punching somebody in the face having to be a technique (and therefore needing TP to be spent on it when an equivalent amount of TP could be an earth-rending, sky-crashing, super technique) somewhere in ^that^ direction, and I came to that question myself. Was it ever answered?

[AlterForm]

More notes:


Pg42: Throw. The indentation is off. :smalltongue:

Pg42: Injury Limit. As written, at level 5 limit you can't use the technique unless your HP is below 0. Should it stop at level 4?

Pg44: Time Limit. Rephrasing it as "Effects of the technique disappear after a certain amount of time" would make it core-neutral (at the moment, it references Form reverting after a certain amount of time, something that wouldn't really apply to Summoning or Domination cores)

Pg44: Upkeep Limit. When is the EN spent?

Pg45: Ultimate HP Limit. Is this permanent loss? What is it a percentage of: total HP, or current HP?

Pg46: Collateral Limit. A note about the technique targetting everyone in the battle regardless of range is probably appropriate.

Pg64: Domination Core. Is the escape difficulty a rolloff, or is a static value being rolled against by the ensnared target?

Pg65: Timestop Core. Should the second-to-last special line read "Enemy DEF and RES drop to 0" instead of "Enemy DEF and EVD drop to 0"?

Pg66: Can Lesser Minions even do anything but run around and die? They don't seem to have any SP or TP, which suggests they're only there to make the Players feel good about kicking arse.

Pg68: Element Systems. Needs something about game effects; as it is it seems to just be fluff.


And that's it.

[OverWilliam]

Inspiration! Consumable items.

The rules (Da Rules) mention Special Items, but not so much what they're for (becides a technique or two). What if one class of special item is one that, when used as a material component for a technique, is expended in the use in order to lower EN cost? My character could buy, I don't know, 'Chakra Sealed Kunai' to use in Kunai Rain that would, in the flavor text, have the energy used in the technique pre-sealed into the weapon itself that is released for the user to substitute for his own energy while using that specific technique. The EN goes down to a very easily managed level (or completely avoided, maybe) and then the item is expended. The technique functions as normal without the special item, but when used with one it lowers the EN drastically.

In theory you could have one-use items to increase damage, accuracy, assign an element to the attack, make a buff last longer, make a shot go farther, whatever you want, really. Each item would be created for specific use with a specific technique, which would limit the usefulness of carrying them around while still having the option available.

[Behold_the_Void]

I'm going to hold off on responding to the minor errors right now, I'll fix them all when I get around to it. I like all the feedback though, it helps a lot.

The consumable idea has definite merit, I will mention it.



Pg30: Violent Aura. Does not have a SP cost listed.

Pg30: Should there be an "Overpowering Resistance" skill, since +1 level of attack can apply to all 4 kinds of attacks, while +1 level of defense only applies to 2?

Pg37: How is the sealed ability chosen? GM's choice? Player's choice? Random?

Violent Aura was made by the other one, it'll be priced when he gets his hands on it, most likely.

Resistance is actually a new addition, so we still haven't added all of the Resistance variants of the Defense skills. We will add it.

Player chooses Seal target.


More notes:

[spoiler]Pg42: Injury Limit. As written, at level 5 limit you can't use the technique unless your HP is below 0. Should it stop at level 4?

Pg44: Upkeep Limit. When is the EN spent?

Pg45: Ultimate HP Limit. Is this permanent loss? What is it a percentage of: total HP, or current HP?

Pg64: Domination Core. Is the escape difficulty a rolloff, or is a static value being rolled against by the ensnared target?

Pg65: Timestop Core. Should the second-to-last special line read "Enemy DEF and RES drop to 0" instead of "Enemy DEF and EVD drop to 0"?

Pg66: Can Lesser Minions even do anything but run around and die? They don't seem to have any SP or TP, which suggests they're only there to make the Players feel good about kicking arse.

Pg68: Element Systems. Needs something about game effects; as it is it seems to just be fluff.


And that's it.

There's an ability that lets you stay up past 0 if you have enough Will. That is intentional.

Beginning of turn, will clarify.

Total HP, just for the battle. Will also clarify.

Against a static difficulty.

Should be Defense, Resistance and Evade. I may remove that entirely, even for bosses it looks like it'll end up more annoying than anything else. It's in there because we just happened to finish watching Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

I intend to expand the Elemental part further.

[AlterForm]

Some things I didn't have a chance to mention before the forums went down. NPC construction:

General: When an NPC types mentions you should have "X number of Y per number of PCs," does that mean for a group of just that type? ie, for a group of 4 PCs, you could throw: 4 minions, or 8 lesser minions, or 2 swarms, or 2 standards, or 1 boss?

General: The NPC creation section refers to "Standard Enemies," while the XP table refers "Elites." I think Elite is a better term, since minions seems like the kind of enemies players would wind up thinking of as "standard."

General: Are primary attributes derived just as they are for PCs? ie, the point-buy system, with bonuses every level?

General: Can NPCs take flaws?

Lesser Minions: Do they get any techniques?

Bosses: XP value seems a little high. Assuming my first assumption under General is true, then we get:
4 minions: 100 XP
8 Lesser Minions: 40 XP
2 Swarms: 80 XP
2 Standards: 160 XP
1 Boss: 300 XP

I don't pretend to be a guru about this sort of thing, but those numbers seem off since each is supposed to be a "standard" encounter.

General: A list of generic techniques to assign to NPCs would be a great help in designing them. EX:

Melee Attack
TP: Level +3
ATK: 150 + 50 * LEVEL, + 10 * STR
EN: 10 * LEVEL
Mods: Recommend 1 "free" mod every 5 levels

Ranged Attack
TP: Level +3
ATK: 100 + 50 * LEVEL, +10 * AGL
EN: 10 * LEVEL
Range: 3 + 3 every third level
Mods: Ranged(accounted for); Recommend 1 "free" mod every 5 levels.

Obviously these break the rules for tech creation (you're giving a free mods), but it's much quicker than going through the entire process by scratch. Limits, being rather variable, would have to be left up to the GM. I might write up one per core tomorrow.

[Collin152]

This is more opinion than a true problem, but I feel fast actions should be able to be taken on the same turn as a slow action, seeing how they don't really take up any time at all.

[Behold_the_Void]

Some things I didn't have a chance to mention before the forums went down. NPC construction:

General: When an NPC types mentions you should have "X number of Y per number of PCs," does that mean for a group of just that type? ie, for a group of 4 PCs, you could throw: 4 minions, or 8 lesser minions, or 2 swarms, or 2 standards, or 1 boss?

General: The NPC creation section refers to "Standard Enemies," while the XP table refers "Elites." I think Elite is a better term, since minions seems like the kind of enemies players would wind up thinking of as "standard."

General: Are primary attributes derived just as they are for PCs? ie, the point-buy system, with bonuses every level?

General: Can NPCs take flaws?

Lesser Minions: Do they get any techniques?

Bosses: XP value seems a little high. Assuming my first assumption under General is true, then we get:
4 minions: 100 XP
8 Lesser Minions: 40 XP
2 Swarms: 80 XP
2 Standards: 160 XP
1 Boss: 300 XP

I don't pretend to be a guru about this sort of thing, but those numbers seem off since each is supposed to be a "standard" encounter.

General: A list of generic techniques to assign to NPCs would be a great help in designing them. EX:

Melee Attack
TP: Level +3
ATK: 150 + 50 * LEVEL, + 10 * STR
EN: 10 * LEVEL
Mods: Recommend 1 "free" mod every 5 levels

Ranged Attack
TP: Level +3
ATK: 100 + 50 * LEVEL, +10 * AGL
EN: 10 * LEVEL
Range: 3 + 3 every third level
Mods: Ranged(accounted for); Recommend 1 "free" mod every 5 levels.

Obviously these break the rules for tech creation (you're giving a free mods), but it's much quicker than going through the entire process by scratch. Limits, being rather variable, would have to be left up to the GM. I might write up one per core tomorrow.

NPC rules are undergoing revisions at the moment to bring them more in-line with standard character creation. But yes, Lesser Minions are currently exactly like minions except for the changes. There will be sample enemies across the board when the system is completed. The EXP values are correct, those "standard" encounters represent a different flavor. I will eventually figure out a more detailed "you should be getting this much exp per encounter" table so people can more freely mix and match the types of enemies.


This is more opinion than a true problem, but I feel fast actions should be able to be taken on the same turn as a slow action, seeing how they don't really take up any time at all.

It doesn't fit with the spirit of the system. A slow action is something like transforming into your uber form or incanting the massive, world-shattering spell. It's hard to focus on doing anything else when you're doing that.

[OverWilliam]

Some clarification on technique levels... How do limits effect the technique level? I can only have level 4 techniques or lower at first level, so if I have a technique with 1 core level and then a mod with 3 levels, does that mean I can't have any limits?

EDIT:

Looked at the rule book again, and read the following:

"When you build your technique, the level of the Core plus the levels of all the Modifiers combined add up to the full technique level."

Limits don't effect technique level at all. Question diverted. :smallsmile:

[Collin152]

It doesn't fit with the spirit of the system. A slow action is something like transforming into your uber form or incanting the massive, world-shattering spell. It's hard to focus on doing anything else when you're doing that.

So... healing is as dramatic as destroying the world.

Still don't see why you can't use one before you go all 'Raaaaargh! Transform!'

[Xuincherguixe]

So... healing is as dramatic as destroying the world.

Still don't see why you can't use one before you go all 'Raaaaargh! Transform!'

It is if you do it right.

[Behold_the_Void]

So... healing is as dramatic as destroying the world.

Still don't see why you can't use one before you go all 'Raaaaargh! Transform!'

In this case healing is the glowy hands thing that takes forever, originally why it was an hour originally, and then ten minutes. We may introduce some in-battle healing based off will and make healing take a long time again.

[Collin152]

Wait, it takes ten minutes to heal?
It looked like a Slow action.
Characters heal naturally in ten minutes, don't they?

[Behold_the_Void]

Wait, it takes ten minutes to heal?
It looked like a Slow action.
Characters heal naturally in ten minutes, don't they?

No no, I mean in development it went from 1 hour to 10 to slow.

[Collin152]

Aah. Well, I support the notion of having seperate combat healing and downtime healing.
With downtime healing skills being more economical on your EN, but combat healing working faster.

[Xuincherguixe]

Not that things have to make sense, but what's to prevent one from using those healing powers outside of combat? Why do the powers mysteriously stop working when there isn't a big scary thing in front of them?

Mind you that could very well be the answer. Healing powers absorb evil radiation emitted by every villain the party faces in order to increase it's effectiveness. Without the evil radiation they just aren't as effective.

Maybe, combat healing is a temporary sort of thing. Injecting a target with special awesome energy which causes wounds to close up, and take away pain. But the awesomeness eventually wears out, and so wounds reopen shortly after.

[Behold_the_Void]

Not that things have to make sense, but what's to prevent one from using those healing powers outside of combat? Why do the powers mysteriously stop working when there isn't a big scary thing in front of them?

Mind you that could very well be the answer. Healing powers absorb evil radiation emitted by every villain the party faces in order to increase it's effectiveness. Without the evil radiation they just aren't as effective.

Maybe, combat healing is a temporary sort of thing. Injecting a target with special awesome energy which causes wounds to close up, and take away pain. But the awesomeness eventually wears out, and so wounds reopen shortly after.

You can use techniques and whatnot out of battle, it consumes energy as normal and it regenerates at the natural rate.

[Xuincherguixe]

Ah phooey, and I had such wonderful crazy ideas too.

[Collin152]

Wonderfully crazy ideas are my forte.
We should work together, and between the two of us, we can ensure that anybody who could use the system has been fairly represented!

[Collin152]

Looking at the Clone core, I think it could use some improvement.
For instance, it seems you get no clones at all unless you have 3 levels of the core, and that you get no benefit for having levels that are not multiples of 3.

They could use a little clarity, too.
Can they not take actions? Are they completley illusionary?
I feel they should at least have their own kinds of modifier, to make them at least somewhat combat capable. Even if its inneficient offense and an energy hog.

Something like:
Clone Attack
Applicable to: Clone Core
Effect: Each clone you create has one of your techniques with a level no higher than [insert formula here].
Additional levels add additional tecnhiques.


You know what I mean? it could add to the Energy cost by a remarkable amount so as to give the Clones an energy pool to draw on for their techniques... Anyways, that's all I really got for now.

[Behold_the_Void]

Looking at the Clone core, I think it could use some improvement.
For instance, it seems you get no clones at all unless you have 3 levels of the core, and that you get no benefit for having levels that are not multiples of 3.

They could use a little clarity, too.
Can they not take actions? Are they completley illusionary?
I feel they should at least have their own kinds of modifier, to make them at least somewhat combat capable. Even if its inneficient offense and an energy hog.

Something like:
Clone Attack
Applicable to: Clone Core
Effect: Each clone you create has one of your techniques with a level no higher than [insert formula here].
Additional levels add additional tecnhiques.


You know what I mean? it could add to the Energy cost by a remarkable amount so as to give the Clones an energy pool to draw on for their techniques... Anyways, that's all I really got for now.

Clones will likely change to creating lesser minion versions of yourself. More on that as we fiddle with it.

[Collin152]

Ah, so similar to the Summon core.

Might make the differances between the two a little superficial, you think? Maybe?

[OverWilliam]

As Naruto shows us time and time again, clones, especially if illusory but even if not, should be many and weak MOST of the time. There are instances with restricting the number of clones and then each having their own say-so, but for the most part they are pathetically weak and ridiculous amounts of them. The current clone core doesn't speak to that very much... It doesn't really allow one to spam the field with them only to have your opponent annihilate them all in one or two rounds, as we see so often in the anime.

I would consider making two kinds of clones; the kind that holds their own, henceforth referred to as Substantial type, and the kind that are just cannon fodder. For the cannon fodder type, we could have three or four clones per 5-foot square that all die when someone attacks them (so consider them one target, but in the flavor it's four clones at once). You could also allow the real clone-er or even another Substantial clone to hide in a stack WITH other cannon fodder clones and only if they are attacked the other clones die and he is revealed and takes 1/5 of the hit (or however many clones there are to divide the attack). This would also allow a group of several cannon fodder clones to attack at the same time and even still only do about average damage for one person even though there's five of them at once.

[Collin152]

At least one limit describes you as becoming fatigued after use, but I don't think this condition is described anywhere.
nor the benefits of cover, I think.

[Zeal]

Hey, just got back from playing my first Shounen game with two of my gaming group. Here are what they mentioned to me in the way of comments and questions (there are a few of my own in there as well).

-Flaws seem harsh for very little return. the Skill points recieved are rather minimal even by upping them to 10, 15 or 20 would make flaws a lot more viable of an option.

-Can you reduce a technique's energy cost to 0 or lower with limits?

-Location Mod for boost cores seems rather overshadowed by swift step. At level 1 it doesn't seem worth taking.

-There's no spot for willpower on the character sheet.

-Is the Healing ability a slow action?

-Due to a lack of premade material, prep takes a lot of time.

Other than this, the two of them enjoyed the system, although we didn't have our usual grid which made combat significantly more difficult.

[Collin152]

I think the energy can't go less than 0.

Location Mod can let you modify an ally's position, can't it?

Healing is, regretably, a slow action.

Yes, it does have a bit of prep time.
Fortunatley, most mooks are clones of each other.

[Zeal]

Location Mod can let you modify an ally's position, can't it?


If I understand correctly, yes, but with a movement rate of Core level/3 it takes a lot of points for something rather minor.

[Collin152]

Yes, it really does need revising.
The same problem with the clone core, one clone/3 levels.

[Behold_the_Void]

Sorry it took so long, the other creator was returning from Japan, recovering, getting back into the swing of things, etc. etc. we're lazy bums.

Anyway.

A new update should hopefully be forthcoming soon, I hope to have addressed most of the issues presented.

Note that minor minions and even minions don't, thematically, have to stand for just one dude. They CAN be a swarm of things. This system is intentionally flavor-light for the specific purpose of allowing you to come up with your own descriptions for how things work.

We also DO intend to have pre-made material for the final release, but right now making the system is far more important. All the extra stuff will come later.

Regarding Clone's efficacy, I am considering making it 1/level and just making it really high energy per level, that seems better in keeping with the system's design philosophy. However, it also means a theoretical problem at high levels when you're throwing out, 20+ clones and bogging the game down.

Oh, and on the "Substantial" clones, that'd basically be a summon.

Techniques can be reduced to 0 energy cost, but not below.

The idea behind the location mod (which will likely also be revised) is that you can reposition other people with the appropriate mods. I will tinker with it to make it more cost-effective. You can also use it with a Weaken Core, if memory serves (if not that needs to be fixed) which means you can use it to move enemies, which can be huge. Especially because...

We have new technique types/mods coming! We're adding effects that allow you to literally shape the battlefield by creating barriers and lingering effects like walls of fire and whatnot. That'll be in the next update.

Further, we're going to be removing Heroics and folding all of those functions into the Will mechanic, so Healing may change a bit.

[ZebulonCrispi]

New version!

Shonen Rulebook: v20 (http://professor.fireandrobot.com/Shounen%20Rulebook%20Compilation%20v20.doc)

There's some fairly significant new stuff in here that'll need testing:
-New tech core, Barrier Core, that allows the player to create obstacles on the battlefield
-New mod, Persistent Effect, that allows the creation of semi-permanent zones that have constant effects in them
-Completely rewritten Illusion Core
-Heroics effects folded into Will

[Pyrox]

Is it to late to become a playtester? I can make a group of 4-5 people who would be willing to play. I'd like to run a bleach campaign, though I have only watched the anime (I'm on the arrancar arc). Please respond soon :smallsmile:.

[Tobi_goodboy]

this looks very interesting--am I too late to do anything? (i cant get a group together IRL, but if anyone's hosting a PbP I'd be more than happy to join...)


New version!

Shonen Rulebook: v20 (http://professor.fireandrobot.com/Shounen%20Rulebook%20Compilation%20v20.doc)

There's some fairly significant new stuff in here that'll need testing:
-New tech core, Barrier Core, that allows the player to create obstacles on the battlefield
-New mod, Persistent Effect, that allows the creation of semi-permanent zones that have constant effects in them
-Completely rewritten Illusion Core
-Heroics effects folded into Will

the barrier core made me think of 'kekkaishi' for some reason, would that kind of battle style be available?

EDIT: also, the link to the document is broken.

[Tobi_goodboy]

by the way, my email is [email protected]

if you could send me the rules it would be very much appreciated