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Mr. Friendly
2008-05-19, 12:07 PM
The premise of this treatise is to:


Show a link between Magic and a real world analog of radioactivity
Illustrate the inherent dangers of such radioactivity
Indicate economic repercussions of said radiation
Conceptualize in-game resolution of this radiation



1.
Radiation and Magic already have a distinctive link in Dungeons and Dragons, stemming back many years to the Drow and the Underdark radiations, known now as faerzress. This magical radiation saturates and seeps into all life forms and items inside its energy field. Exposed items and creatures, in some cases, are mutated or gain magical abilities.

This exposure is detectable to even the lowliest spell caster, via the spell Detect Magic. Further, the radiation itself is detectable from the faerzress field, which is viewed as a different form of radiation, than the radiation from items constructed via more routine enchanting processes.

Thus, if we accept that faerzress is radiation and is detectable by all forms of detect magic-type spells, it is a reasonable conclusion that detect magic and it's ilk are not really detecting magic, but rather are detecting radiation, some of which is more benign than others.

2.
If, given the above premise, creatures exposed to the phenomena experience mutation and other effects it is this researchers belief that overexposure to multiple sources of magical radiation outside the Underdark can cause similar effects. Sometimes called "the Christmas tree effect", such unstable radioactivity can have many negative effects including(but not limited to):

addiction
illness
mutation


Addiction:
I think we have all seen this one before; the player who refuses to give up a magic item, even for the good or survival of the party or who has to be severely prodded to do so. PC's will go to extensive lengths to gain new items and while they may be willing to part with an item, they will almost never do so voluntarily or without a better replacement in hand.

Obviously though in this case, it really is the player who is addicted though and not the PC, however - Player actions lead to PC actions which lead to a virtual addiction to magic.

Illness:
Though a de facto link cannot be made at this time, a tenuous link can be made via the world of Dark Sun. In Dark Sun, spell casters known as Defilers created a ring of ash (see: DEFORESTATION below); those caught inside this radius when the defiler cast would be struck ill for a short duration.

Mutation:
Creatures such as Drow and Faerzress-Infused creatures bear witness to the mutational properties of concentrated magic. Additionally, there are a fair number of templates which focus on magical infusions warping the base creature.

2A. Deforestation:
A side effect of spell casting on the world of Athas was a ring of ash which formed during the process of discharging radioactive energy. These dead spots are rendered lifeless and unusable for centuries.

2B. Radiation Sickness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning#Acute_.28short-term.29_vs_chronic_.28long-term.29_effects):
Before continuing, I would like to review real world radiation exposure and look at its magical analogs. WARNING: the above link does include some disturbing images.

I would estimate that average dose of radiation in D&D is somewhere in the 20 - 50 REM range, with Defiler spell casting (at higher levels) being around 100 - 200 REM.

Birth defects and limbs falling off, rapid aging and severe illness are all among possible real world effects. If we apply the same standards of RW Radiation to magical radiation, then as a character acquires more and more magic items (and never ceases to being contact with them, as PCs often are) and is exposed to greater magical effects, the likelihood of severe results becomes more possible, as their radiation levels keep increasing.

3.
Players often joke about the ridiculous prices which merchants charge for magic items, the unwillingness to give a good price when buying and selling for vastly higher amounts. This becomes a much more rational thing in a world where magical radiation can kill you or leave you sterile. The merchant has no real incentive to buy the item for any amount larger than what he can afford to lose, he has to take extreme measures to protect himself and his goods, finally it is an uncertain market, since generally only adventurers and those willing to take extreme risks are likely to purchase such dangerous items.

Indeed magic as radioactivity would seem to be a natural state of the world, as the rules are written at least as far as the (seemingly) odd rules of magical economics are concerned.

4.
The real meat of this post in fact, the part where we all speculate about what sort of effects this radiation should have. I for one would be tempted to use a table not unlike those found in Gamma World and other post apocalypse games to establish the effects of radiation exposure.

In the event of mutation from high exposure, it should be rare event and have only a minuscule chance of bestowing any sort of benefit.

The actual chances of even being effected by magical radiation should be realistically very low, since if it were too dangerous no one would use it. A good formula might be (for magic items) Caster Level = REMS might be a good start, the REM amount adding up of course for prolonged exposure purposes.

This concludes my treatise on the dangers of magical radiation, I hope you found it interesting and look forward to an enlightening conversation.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-19, 12:11 PM
The premise of this treatise is to:


Show a link between Magic and a real world analog of radioactivity
Illustrate the inherent dangers of such radioactivity
Indicate economic repercussions of said radiation
Conceptualize in-game resolution of this radiation



1.
Radiation and Magic already have a distinctive link in Dungeons and Dragons, stemming back many years to the Drow and the Underdark radiations, known now as faerzress. This magical radiation saturates and seeps into all life forms and items inside its energy field. Exposed items and creatures, in some cases, are mutated or gain magical abilities.

This exposure is detectable to even the lowliest spell caster, via the spell Detect Magic. Further, the radiation itself is detectable from the faerzress field, which is viewed as a different form of radiation, than the radiation from items constructed via more routine enchanting processes.

Thus, if we accept that faerzress is radiation and is detectable by all forms of detect magic-type spells, it is a reasonable conclusion that detect magic and it's ilk are not really detecting magic, but rather are detecting radiation, some of which is more benign than others.

2.
If, given the above premise, creatures exposed to the phenomena experience mutation and other effects it is this researchers belief that overexposure to multiple sources of magical radiation outside the Underdark can cause similar effects. Sometimes called "the Christmas tree effect", such unstable radioactivity can have many negative effects including(but not limited to):

addiction
illness
mutation


Addiction:
I think we have all seen this one before; the player who refuses to give up a magic item, even for the good or survival of the party or who has to be severely prodded to do so. PC's will go to extensive lengths to gain new items and while they may be willing to part with an item, they will almost never do so voluntarily or without a better replacement in hand.

Obviously though in this case, it really is the player who is addicted though and not the PC, however - Player actions lead to PC actions which lead to a virtual addiction to magic.

Illness:
Though a de facto link cannot be made at this time, a tenuous link can be made via the world of Dark Sun. In Dark Sun, spell casters known as Defilers created a ring of ash (see: DEFORESTATION below); those caught inside this radius when the defiler cast would be struck ill for a short duration.

Mutation:
Creatures such as Drow and Faerzress-Infused creatures bear witness to the mutational properties of concentrated magic. Additionally, there are a fair number of templates which focus on magical infusions warping the base creature.

2A. Deforestation:
A side effect of spell casting on the world of Athas was a ring of ash which formed during the process of discharging radioactive energy. These dead spots are rendered lifeless and unusable for centuries.

2B. Radiation Sickness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning#Acute_.28short-term.29_vs_chronic_.28long-term.29_effects):
Before continuing, I would like to review real world radiation exposure and look at its magical analogs. WARNING: the above link does include some disturbing images.

I would estimate that average dose of radiation in D&D is somewhere in the 20 - 50 REM range, with Defiler spell casting (at higher levels) being around 100 - 200 REM.

Birth defects and limbs falling off, rapid aging and severe illness are all among possible real world effects. If we apply the same standards of RW Radiation to magical radiation, then as a character acquires more and more magic items (and never ceases to being contact with them, as PCs often are) and is exposed to greater magical effects, the likelihood of severe results becomes more possible, as their radiation levels keep increasing.

3.
Players often joke about the ridiculous prices which merchants charge for magic items, the unwillingness to give a good price when buying and selling for vastly higher amounts. This becomes a much more rational thing in a world where magical radiation can kill you or leave you sterile. The merchant has no real incentive to buy the item for any amount larger than what he can afford to lose, he has to take extreme measures to protect himself and his goods, finally it is an uncertain market, since generally only adventurers and those willing to take extreme risks are likely to purchase such dangerous items.

Indeed magic as radioactivity would seem to be a natural state of the world, as the rules are written at least as far as the (seemingly) odd rules of magical economics are concerned.

4.
The real meat of this post in fact, the part where we all speculate about what sort of effects this radiation should have. I for one would be tempted to use a table not unlike those found in Gamma World and other post apocalypse games to establish the effects of radiation exposure.

In the event of mutation from high exposure, it should be rare event and have only a minuscule chance of bestowing any sort of benefit.

The actual chances of even being effected by magical radiation should be realistically very low, since if it were too dangerous no one would use it. A good formula might be (for magic items) Caster Level = REMS might be a good start, the REM amount adding up of course for prolonged exposure purposes.

This concludes my treatise on the dangers of magical radiation, I hope you found it interesting and look forward to an enlightening conversation.

...You realize the Underdark is FR only? This doesn't apply to Greyhawk, Eberron, or any other setting. It kinda kills all the treatise.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-05-19, 12:16 PM
I've always considered sickstone as the closest analogue to HE radiation, personally, with its deleterious health effects, hair-falling out, sickness causing, lumninescent nature - also, with a decay effect in the sun.

Worira
2008-05-19, 12:22 PM
You really don't need to quote a three-page post when its the only post in the topic. Also, I'm pretty sure radiation isn't addictive. Also also, radiation is a much, much broader term than you seem to think it is, Mr. Friendly. A flashlight emits radiation.

Inyssius Tor
2008-05-19, 12:25 PM
That's not, um, true.

Eberron calls it Khyber--and I suspect the presence of a ring of irradiated (and magical) crystal shards hovering over the planet can only help his theory.

I don't know much about Greyhawk, but a quick glance on Wikipedia shows this:
The Underdark is featured prominently in the World of Greyhawk (where it was first introduced at the end of the "Giant" series of modules (G-1-2-3) and with the "Drow" modules (D1-2 and D3)).--and a quick search through Wizards' website reveals this:
... already his soldiers have tunneled into the lowest levels of Castle Greyhawk from the Underdark ...

Dervag
2008-05-19, 02:31 PM
You really don't need to quote a three-page post when its the only post in the topic. Also, I'm pretty sure radiation isn't addictive. Also also, radiation is a much, much broader term than you seem to think it is, Mr. Friendly. A flashlight emits radiation.Look, unless it's clearly preceded by something like "electromagnetic," even the physicists will understand that you mean "ionizing radiation."

For that matter, use of the units "rad," "rem," or "Grey" is a dead giveaway too; you can't measure visible light in those units any more than you can measure the height of the Empire State Building in pounds.

Give the man the break he deserves.
___________________________________________

That said, radiation is not addictive, and it has WAY fewer effects than magic. D&D magic can do damn near anything, and a lot of it is beneficial to the user (though not always to the target). Radiation has only a few effects, and most of the applications hinge around making the most of that small number of effects.

Other than the fact that they are both all-pervasive things the common man does not understand very well, and that they can both potentially have toxic or mutagenic effects, I'd say there isn't much of an analogy at all.

Flickerdart
2008-05-19, 02:41 PM
To support the guy, several effects are blocked by a sheet of lead...

Dervag
2008-05-19, 05:44 PM
Of course, lead is also an iconic 'base metal' in alchemy and mysticism, such that it is antimagical in nature. Also, lead is very heavy and dense- almost everything is blocked by a sufficient thickness of lead, including mundane things like swords, spears, rain, and sunlight.

Starbuck_II
2008-05-19, 07:32 PM
I would estimate that average dose of radiation in D&D is somewhere in the 20 - 50 REM range, with Defiler spell casting (at higher levels) being around 100 - 200 REM.

In the event of mutation from high exposure, it should be rare event and have only a minuscule chance of bestowing any sort of benefit.

The actual chances of even being effected by magical radiation should be realistically very low, since if it were too dangerous no one would use it. A good formula might be (for magic items) Caster Level = REMS might be a good start, the REM amount adding up of course for prolonged exposure purposes.

This concludes my treatise on the dangers of magical radiation, I hope you found it interesting and look forward to an enlightening conversation.

I think you numbers are far too high.
Well, Rems in real life:

Three Mile Island at the plant during accident only incuts 80 mrem (0.08 rem).
Earliest Onset of Radiation Sickness 75, 000 mrem (75 rem).
Expected 50% death without medical attention 400, 000 mrem (about 400 rem).
Pelvis X-ray 44 mrem (0.044 rem).
Hip X-ray 83 mrem (0.083 rem).
Occupational Dose of radiation (adventuring?) is 1 rem/year only takes 51 days off life expectency. Alcohol drinking takes a year off.
Occupational Dose of radiation ?) is 1 300 mrem/year only takes 15 days off life expectency.