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Citizen Jenkins
2008-05-19, 03:10 PM
Why it's okay to drop Abjuration
or "Why you shouldn't be doing the Cleric's job"

1. In a sentence
Given that most of the best abjuration spells also appear in the Cleric's spell list, dropping Abjuration allows you to pick up a bunch of juicy Enchantment spells without limiting the party's access to necessary spells.

Why you shouldn't be casting dispel magic
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm
Going back to the Logic Ninja's guide, the general consensus on specialization is that you drop Evocation and Enchantment, possibly Necromancy, but never abjuration. Enchantment has a bunch of cool spells but they focus on will saves and both Illusion and Necromancy already focus on that save. You can afford to lose it because it because while it has a whole bunch of cool spells, none of them are necessary. Meanwhile, Abjuration has the absolutely essential Dispel Magic and a host of useful buffs which you just can't afford to lose.
Now go look through most of the best or most iconic abjuration spells (Dispel Magic, Protection from Energy, etc) and you'll notice that almost all of them appear on the Cleric's spell list, if not the Druid's, Bard's, etc. If your party had a Beguiler you'd drop Enchantment without a second thought, if the party had a Warmage you'd drop Evocation even faster. So why, if the Cleric can mimic the best of Abjuration do so many wizards continue to stubbornly hold onto it?
There's also the unfortunate fact that if you have a cleric in your party and you cast Dispel Magic, you're a bit of a sucker and your party is worse off. Consider two examples of a fight against a BBEG who has been properly buffed. In the first example you cast Dispel Magic and the Cleric perform an action. Maybe he buffs, maybe he summons some creatures, maybe he runs forward and tries to hit the BBEG with his mace. In the second example the Cleric casts Dispel Magic and you get to cast any debuff/battlefield control/save-or-die spell you have. Not to belittle clerics, who are quite powerful even compared to wizards, but almost any action the Cleric takes is going to be less valuable than that potentially battle-changing spell a good wizard can cast in the first round. Because of that the party in the second example will almost always fare better than the party in the first example because of the importance of debuffing or setting up battlefield control spells in the first round. In fact, the only time a wizard should cast Dispel Magic is if the Cleric can do something more valuable with his action than the wizard could do with another spell which, despite the Cleric's strength, is pretty rare.

Level by Level in Core
Now let's examine the Wizard-only abjuration spells, since the Cleric should be casting all the others, and weigh them against the Enchantment spell list that most specialists lose out on.
Wizard-only Abjuration----------Enchantment

1st Level Spells
Alarm----------Charm Person
Hold Portal----------Hypnotism
Shield----------Sleep
Sure, Shield is a nice minutes long buff and Alarm covers sleeping security nicely between level 4 and level 9 when Rope Trick takes over but Enchantment not only has the amazingly useful Charm Person but the king of low level offense, Sleep. Enchantment is much stronger at this level.


2nd Level Spells
Arcane Lock----------Daze Monster
Protection from Arrows----------Hideous Laughter
(nothing)----------Touch of Idiocy
Abjuration gives you almost nothing here (Protection from Arrows only works on non-magical weapons) while Enchantment gives you a respectable save-or-lose for the level and a nice debuff. Another clear advantage for Enchantment.


3rd Level Spells
Explosive Runes----------Deep Slumber
Nondetection----------Heroism
(nothing)----------Hold Person
(nothing)----------Rage
(nothing)----------Suggestion
Despite the popularity of Explosive Runes, Abjuration gives you two highly situational spells while Enchantment gives you a powerful save-or-lose, two moderate buffs, and the ever-useful Suggestion.


4th level Level Spells
Fire Trap----------Charm Monster
Lesser Globe on Invulnerability----------Confusion
Stoneskin----------Crushing Despair
(nothing)----------Lesser Geas
Stoneskin makes Abjuration a bit stronger here but Charm Monster, supported by Confusion and the potential shenanigans of Lesser Geas keep Enchantment in the lead.


5th Level Spells
Mage's Private Sanctum----------Feeblemind
(nothing)----------Dominate Person
(nothing)----------Hold Monster
(nothing)----------Mind Fog
(nothing)----------Symbol of Sleep
Enchantment offers a bunch of good spells while Abjuration offers only one situational spell but this is still the first level where I feel you miss something by dropping Abjuration. Mage's Private Sanctum is very situational but it's also pretty much impossible to reproduce that exact effect with another spell. This is also the point where Cleric's start to lose access to the best Abjuration spells and Enchantment starts offering less and less good magic.


6th Level Spells
Antimagic Field----------Geas/Quest
Globe of Invulnerability----------Greater Heroism
Guards and Wards----------Mass Suggestion
Repulsion----------Symbol of Persuasion
Both Antimagic Field and Repulsion show up on the Cleric spell list but at higher levels. Enchantment is still offering some decent stuff and I'd still take the Enchantment stuff over Abjuration but the gap is closing.


7th Level Spells
Sequester----------Mass Hold Person
Spell Turning----------Insanity
(nothing)----------Power Word Blind
(nothing)----------Symbol of Stunning
Abjuration doesn't really offer you anything here but while I think the showing from Enchantment is stronger, I can't see myself actually preparing any of these spells.


8th Level Spells
Mind Blank----------Antipathy
Prismatic Wall----------Binding
Protection from Spells----------Mass Charm Monster
(nothing)----------Demand
(nothing)----------Irresistible Dance
(nothing)----------Power Word Stun
(nothing)----------Symbol of Insanity
(nothing)----------Sympathy
Sure, Protection from Spells and Prismatic Wall aren't bad but the real loss here is Mind Blank. Still, not only do you pick up Irresistible Dance but a host of respectable save-or-loses and some decent situational spells. Still, losing Mind Blank sucks and I'm tempted to put this as a tie between one high quality Abjuration spell and a large quantity of good Enchantment spells.


9th Level Spells
Freedom----------Dominate Monster
Imprisonment----------Mass Hold Monster
Mage's Disjunction----------Power Word Kill
Prismatic Sphere----------(nothing)
Prismatic Sphere and Mage's Disjunction are very strong while Enchantment really only offers Dominate Monster. On the other hand, Mage's Disjunction is very rarely used in actual play and Dominate Monster last for weeks at this level. Still, Abjuration is probably the stronger of the two at this level.

Overall:
For the first ten levels I think Enchantment has a lot of good spells to offer while Abjuration is really limited. As the levels progress, however, Enchantment's offerings keep getting weaker while fewer and fewer Abjuration spells fall onto the Cleric's spell list. At high levels you probably won't be using most of the Enchantment spells anyway and the lost Abjurations will hurt a bit. Still, besides Mind Blank I don't feel that Abjuration is all that strong at the higher levels either and there's enough decent Enchantment spells that there's still a marginal advantage to keeping Enchantment.
Two Clerical domains are worth special note. The Protection Domain will net your Cleric Antimagic Field at level 6, Mind Blank at 8, and Prismatic Sphere at 9. If your Cleric has this then you lose almost nothing by dropping Abjuration and for higher level play it's worth talking to your Cleric about taking this. The Magic Domian will also pick up Antimagic Field at level 6, Protection from Spells at level 8, and Mage's Disjunction at level 9. If your Cleric takes both Protection and Magic then drop Abjuration as fast as possible.

Beyond Core
In general, splatbooks tend to exacerbate the trend we observed in Core of Enchantment being strong at the low levels and then gradually puttering out at the high levels. There are less Enchantment spells in splatbooks than any other school and while there are still a few good Enchantment spells to find out there, Abjuration picks up a variety of cool spells without half as much work. The spells Abjuration picks up, however, tend to be just that: cool. With one exception Abjuration just picks up a bunch of neat spells which you like but aren't really necessary, a lot like Enchantment in fact. And at the end of the day the Enchantment spells like Charm and Dominate are just cooler/more useful than what Abjuration has to offer in splatbooks.
That exception I mentioned is Anticipate Teleport and it hurts to lose it almost as much as Mind Blank. Teleporting enemies are just nasty and this is the best and simplest way to deal with them. At lower levels you probably won't have the spare spells to keep this up daily but at higher levels (again) missing this is going to get more and more painful.

Conclusion
If you don't plan on playing past level 12, drop Abjuration and Evocation. Enchantment has too much good stuff to lose and just about every good Abjuration spell is also on the Cleric's spell list. At higher levels you'll be losing a bunch of nice protective buffs, most notable Anticipate Teleport and Mind Blank, for a variety of fairly decent offensive spells including the no-save Irresistible Dance. Whether to drop Abjuration at that point depends on your DM. For most DMs you'll want to drop Abjuration because the marginal increased effectiveness of Enchantment (a Charmed monster is better than a Feared or dead one) is worth leaving a dew holes in your defense which probably won't be exploited. For more lethal DMs it's probably better to play it safe.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-19, 03:26 PM
I fully agree.

I find the whole idea of "don't drop school X because you'll miss spell Y" completely overrated. No matter how nice one particular spell is, it's never so utterly essential that you couldn't do without it (except in theoretical optimization). This is even more relevant if Y is a high-level spell.

For instance, some people claim that dropping enchantment is dumb because you'll need Otto's Dance... to which I say it's a friggin' eighth level spell, and most campaigns will never even reach the level where you can cast it.

(of course, not dropping a school because it has a whole lot of spells you want, is something completely different)

Bayar
2008-05-19, 03:32 PM
I usually drop Evocation, Enchantment and Abjuration. My characters usually have a CHA score of 8 or lower (the lowest has been 4 :smallbiggrin:)

Reel On, Love
2008-05-19, 03:33 PM
Anticipate Teleport, as you've mentioned, is ridiculously good.

The cleric only has so many spell slots, and being able to pack a Resist Energy or Protection From Energy or Energy Immunity, especially when you know you're heading to the Lair Of the Red Wyrm, Which is On The Elemental Plane Of Fire, is good. Being able to carry a couple scrolls of these things around is also good.

More than one person in the party should have Greater Dispel, ideally. Otherwise the cleric's using up Heal slots on multiple copies of it.


Charm and Dominate are okay, I guess, but they're really not that grate. The extra saves Dominate grants really hurts it.

And some spells are Just That Good. Radiant Assault for Evocation; Irresistible Dance (if you're playing at a level where you get it) for Enchantment.

The Spell Reprieve feat (LEoF, requires you to specialize in a school of magic and to have 2 ranks of Know: History) is good for this--it gets you a spell back. With another 2 feats, you can even get the whole school back like you'd never banned it.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2008-05-19, 03:34 PM
It's only fair to note that wizards are generally better at increasing the effectiveness of their dispels than their divine casting companions (if they were so inclined), some of the most potent wizard PrCs want the wizard to at least have a few abjuration spells, and the disparity between enchantment and abjuration at higher levels is more than you let on.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-19, 03:38 PM
It's only fair to note that wizards are generally better at increasing the effectiveness of their dispels than their divine casting companions (if they were so inclined),

No they're not!
Bead of Karma. Inquisition domain (+4, which goes on top of the +10/+20 base cap). That's just for starters.

Thinker
2008-05-19, 03:39 PM
The problem with relying on the cleric for all of your abjuration needs is that he has his own spell-list to worry about. If he is being cleric-zilla he often won't have the spell-slots at lower levels to cover abjuration, too and at high levels he has better things to do. Dispel Magic is generally not a first-round spell; it's often used after the battlefield has been shaped. At low levels cast solid fog on the BBEG, buff up, then cast dispel when he's out. At higher levels similar tactics can be used. But, in the end, I'd say just don't specialize and call it a day. Generalists ftw!

Kurald Galain
2008-05-19, 03:40 PM
Oh yeah...

There are a handful of ways to add spells of forbidden schools to your spellbook. One that comes to mind is the Transmuter's alternative class feature (which lets you pick one spell every 4? levels that becomes transmutation for you). There are probably some others.

Bayar
2008-05-19, 03:46 PM
Plus Conjuration has some blast spells (orbs of X). And there was that Shadow Evocation thing...

Reel On, Love
2008-05-19, 03:47 PM
Oh yeah...

There are a handful of ways to add spells of forbidden schools to your spellbook. One that comes to mind is the Transmuter's alternative class feature (which lets you pick one spell every 4? levels that becomes transmutation for you). There are probably some others.

Spell Reprieve is the only other one that I know of.
The Transmuter ACF also makes you give up your wizard bonus feats (losing the option of Spontaneous Divination), gives you the spells at fixed points (rather than being able to take the feat right after you get to the spell level of the spell you want), and makes you stay as a pure Wizard if you want a second spell.

Gralamin
2008-05-19, 03:49 PM
Well to say some good things about what Abjuration gives you:
Losing Abjuration causes you to lose access to the Incantrix prestige class, as well as Abjurant Champion, two very very good classes. Specializing in Abjuration gives you access to Initiate of the Seven Folded Veil, as well as some very nice abilities available to a Master Specialist (Abjurer).

Eldariel
2008-05-19, 04:01 PM
You're thinking all the wrong reasons to choose schools. Good effects aren't what a Wizard needs (god knows, you have a bookful of those), what you need are unique effects. The reason Evocation is so easy to give up isn't that it sucks; god knows Evocation has a large number of great spells many Wizards love to have an access to (Wind Walls, Wall of Force, Contingency, Force Cage (even with the components, it's a good scroll to have)). The point is, it doesn't do many things other schools don't offer; Illusion duplicates most of the non-combat uses and Conjuration and Transmutation tend to be much better combat schools to start with.

This is the problem with enchantment - it doesn't provide you with many unique effects. Will-based save-or-dies? Sure. Buffs? Sure. Transmutation and Illusion in particular overlap a lot with enchantment. Is sleep good? Yes. Do you need it to be strong level 1? Nope, Color Spray does the same job. Also, unless you have insane stats, the fact that Charms require Charisma-checks to do funny things, they're quite weak in the hands of most Wizards. Illusion overall can be used to make up for a lot of Enchantment-effects, so much so that at the end of the day, Enchantment basically provides you with Heroisms (solid buffs in a party without other sources of morale bonuses) and that's about it. All the other ends can mostly be achieved through other means and the rest of the schools.


Abjuration gives you effects that other schools really don't. Warding-effects, protective effects and anti-magic effects are all things that can be really valuable and that other schools simply don't give you. Sure, that Cleric can duplicate many of those and probably will (if you have one; not all parties adventure with a Cleric), but fact is that sometimes he'll be MIA and that leaves it up to you to handle magic. Also, sometimes you just need to ready counterspell actions and without Dispels, you can't be sure you have the spell to Dispel with.

Also, outside core Abjuration picks up few absolutely incredible spells (such as the said Anticipate Teleport), while Enchantment is pretty much the same bland wine.


Now, if you have a high Charisma (you play in one of those games where you roll 5d6 - drop 2 for stats or something), Enchantment raises in value as it gives you completely new options with the Charms, but otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Chronicled
2008-05-19, 04:36 PM
Your argument convinces me less that you should drop Abjuration instead of Enchantment, instead further convincing me that Focused Specialist (specializing either Conjuration or Transmutation) dropping Evocation, Enchantment, and Abjuration (rather than Necromancy) is one of the better setups for top-notch debuff/buff/control style wizards.

Yes, there are some top-notch PrCs and spells (the absence of Anticipate Teleportation is what I'd miss most) you'll miss without Abjuration, but if you have another full caster (practically any full caster, even) in the party you should be fine.

Chronos
2008-05-19, 04:58 PM
One problem with relying on the cleric to cast the abjuration spells: What if the reason you need the abjuration spell is to fix the cleric, who got hit with a bad debuff? Sometimes, you just really need a Break Enchantment.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-19, 05:19 PM
The Transmuter ACF also makes you give up your wizard bonus feats (losing the option of Spontaneous Divination), gives you the spells at fixed points

Okay, so it's not that great a deal :) Still, personally I don't mind dropping three schools for a Focused Spec. Spell Reprieve sounds decent for that One Spell that you Really Need.

Oh yeah, and the Shadow Magic line should be mentioned - the classic way of obtaining Evocation spells while dropping the school anyway. And IIRC the incantatrix requires you drop another school, but you can keep any of its spells that you knew already.

sikyon
2008-05-19, 05:24 PM
Your premise is flawed:

You don't need to drop 2 schools.

Specialized Diviner/unspecialized is your best bet in core. Divination spells are the most powerful ones available to you, and typically you'll always have at least a few prepared. Or at least you should as a batman wizard.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-19, 05:26 PM
Okay, so it's not that great a deal :) Still, personally I don't mind dropping three schools for a Focused Spec. Spell Reprieve sounds decent for that One Spell that you Really Need.
I don't like Focused Specialist. It's a trap. You lose too much in terms of versatility and good spells.


Oh yeah, and the Shadow Magic line should be mentioned - the classic way of obtaining Evocation spells while dropping the school anyway. And IIRC the incantatrix requires you drop another school, but you can keep any of its spells that you knew already.
The 3.5 Incantatrix makes you just ban the school.
But if you enter it as an Elven Generalist, you still keep the elven generalist sub level (since you're a generalist wizard), and gain -1 school, but the benefits of specializing in Abjuration (which are +1 spell slot/level). So you get two bonus spell slots of your highest level, and one of all the others, with only one school banned.

Chronicled
2008-05-19, 05:35 PM
I don't like Focused Specialist. It's a trap. You lose too much in terms of versatility and good spells.

You lose access to a lot of good spells, but spells are only helpful when you use them. FS lets you practically cast with abandon, or last much longer in a day--without dipping into your WBL to remain more than a commoner with a high will save.

It's also helpful when making a themed wizard, but I'd sooner not delve further into potential RP value.

sikyon
2008-05-19, 05:45 PM
You lose access to a lot of good spells, but spells are only helpful when you use them. FS lets you practically cast with abandon, or last much longer in a day--without dipping into your WBL to remain more than a commoner with a high will save.


You are assuming that an unspecialized wizard doesn't have enough ammo to deal with a standard day of encounters.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-05-19, 05:52 PM
If you have feats to burn (I'm looking at your various Elven wizards, Tippy), three feats from LEoF can give you back a banned school. Spell reprieve (1 spell, could be enough) -> Item Reprieve (spell trigger items) -> Arcane Transfiguration.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-19, 06:15 PM
You are assuming that an unspecialized wizard doesn't have enough ammo to deal with a standard day of encounters.

Well, of course they do, but the "wizzerds can onli cast one spel per dai" non-arguments are nearly as prevalent as the "4E = MMORPG" fallacy.

What can I say? I like focused specs. I also like mystic theurges. I am aware that neither is optimized; but I tend to play with people who don't mind doing a single-classed Fighter, so I prefer not to upstage their builds overly much.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-19, 06:27 PM
You are assuming that an unspecialized wizard doesn't have enough ammo to deal with a standard day of encounters.

Well, of course they do, but the "wizzerds can onli cast one spel per dai" non-arguments are nearly as prevalent as the "4E = MMORPG" fallacy.

What can I say? I like focused specs. I also like mystic theurges. I am aware that neither is optimized; but I tend to play with people who don't mind doing a single-classed Fighter, so I prefer not to upstage their builds overly much.

Eldariel
2008-05-19, 07:11 PM
I don't like Focused Specialist. It's a trap. You lose too much in terms of versatility and good spells.

I disagree. Evo/Enc/Nec is perfectly doable. You still have all the good Battlefield Control, boosts, defenses, dispels, illusions, transportation and damage. You lose Enervation, but you still have Orbs so you'll be fine. This is especially true for a Shadowcraft Mage who gets the whole of Evocation back.

monty
2008-05-19, 07:22 PM
I don't like Focused Specialist. It's a trap. You lose too much in terms of versatility and good spells.

I disagree. I'm playing a changeling wizard (with the 1st sub level - double specialization in Illusion and Transmutation; effectively the same as Focused Specialist in terms of prohibited schools) / Shadowcraft Mage / Incantatrix. I have 4 prohibited schools (Conjuration, Enchantment, Evocation, Necromancy - no other choices were possible) and have never not had an effective spell. Granted, the SCM cheese gives me most of Evocation and Conjuration back (and better, for that matter) but most of the spells in one school can be duplicated by another school to an extent.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-19, 07:25 PM
I disagree. I'm playing a changeling wizard (with the 1st sub level - double specialization in Illusion and Transmutation; effectively the same as Focused Specialist in terms of prohibited schools) / Shadowcraft Mage / Incantatrix. I have 4 prohibited schools (Conjuration, Enchantment, Evocation, Necromancy - no other choices were possible) and have never not had an effective spell. Granted, the SCM cheese gives me most of Evocation and Conjuration back (and better, for that matter) but most of the spells in one school can be duplicated by another school to an extent.

You're an Incantatrix! Of course you don't have any trouble--an Incantatrix could win with just one school! An Incantatrix/Shadowcraft Mage is even more freaking ridiculous.

Oh, but you can't teleport. At all.


Edit: as for banning Necromancy--no, just no. Ray of Enfeeblement (or Escalating Enfeeblement if you took Ray of Clumsiness as well), Ray of Exhaustion... Enervation... Avasculate, which is "half life, no save, plus save vs. Stun for one round"... Veil of Undeath, AKA Immunity to Everything Technique... Command Undead scrolls for mindless undead...

Necromancy doesn't have that many good spells, but the ones it does have are complete powerhouses.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-19, 07:29 PM
You're an Incantatrix! Of course you don't have any trouble--an Incantatrix could win with just one school! An Incantatrix/Shadowcraft Mage is even more freaking ridiculous.

Oh, but you can't teleport. At all.


Edit: as for banning Necromancy--no, just no. Ray of Enfeeblement (or Escalating Enfeeblement if you took Ray of Clumsiness as well), Ray of Exhaustion... Enervation... Avasculate, which is "half life, no save, plus save vs. Stun for one round"... Veil of Undeath, AKA Immunity to Everything Technique... Command Undead scrolls for mindless undead...

Necromancy doesn't have that many good spells, but the ones it does have are complete powerhouses.

On the teleport issue: Limited Wish, use Tele or Shadow Walk.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-19, 07:30 PM
On the teleport issue: Limited Wish, use Tele or Shadow Walk.

boy howdy I sure like bleeding XP whenever I want to get anywhere wooooooooo

(Not to mention the minor useful stuff like Benign Transposition, combat repositioners like Dimension Step, etc.)

monty
2008-05-19, 07:31 PM
You're an Incantatrix! Of course you don't have any trouble--an Incantatrix could win with just one school! An Incantatrix/Shadowcraft Mage is even more freaking ridiculous.

Oh, but you can't teleport. At all.

Speaking of teleporting, your argument against Abjuration is that the cleric can do it. We have a spontaneous variant cleric with the Travel domain; I don't need to be able to teleport.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-19, 07:33 PM
boy howdy I sure like bleeding XP whenever I want to get anywhere wooooooooo

(Not to mention the minor useful stuff like Benign Transposition, combat repositioners like Dimension Step, etc.)

Hey, you asked, your parameters weren't "And it must be cost efficient". Next time, ask a Baatezu to design your posts.

Citizen Jenkins
2008-05-19, 07:40 PM
The problem with relying on the cleric for all of your abjuration needs is that he has his own spell-list to worry about. If he is being cleric-zilla he often won't have the spell-slots at lower levels to cover abjuration, too and at high levels he has better things to do. Dispel Magic is generally not a first-round spell; it's often used after the battlefield has been shaped. At low levels cast solid fog on the BBEG, buff up, then cast dispel when he's out. At higher levels similar tactics can be used. But, in the end, I'd say just don't specialize and call it a day. Generalists ftw!
Elf generalists maybe (but then you have to play an elf) but otherwise I prefer the increased spells of a generalist of a focused specialist. Sure, at higher levels you'll have enough spells but for the first ten levels it makes a big difference. As for Clerics, I'd rather have it eat up their spell slots because a Wizard without spells is a lot more useless than a Cleric without spells. Same for Energy Protection and the like, I'd rather have the Cleric use up his spells on energy protection and be stuck wacking baddies with a mace than me wacking baddies with a walking stick.

Let me put it this way. If I dropped Abjuration and filled another spell like Suggestion or Slow into the slot I usually use to cast Dispel Magic, I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where I'd rather cast Dispel Magic and have the cleric smack the baddy than have him cast Dispel Magic and me casting Suggestion or Slow. Especially at low levels where spells per day is a limiting factor.


You're thinking all the wrong reasons to choose schools. Good effects aren't what a Wizard needs (god knows, you have a bookful of those), what you need are unique effects. The reason Evocation is so easy to give up isn't that it sucks; god knows Evocation has a large number of great spells many Wizards love to have an access to (Wind Walls, Wall of Force, Contingency, Force Cage (even with the components, it's a good scroll to have)). The point is, it doesn't do many things other schools don't offer; Illusion duplicates most of the non-combat uses and Conjuration and Transmutation tend to be much better combat schools to start with.


First, look at the above list and point out to me the truly unique things Abjuration offers you. If you look through splatbooks there's things like Heart of Stone from CM which is better than Stoneskin in every way, along with a host of anti-scrying illusions and divinations, and it keeps getting worse. The truly unique effects I see (which someone would actually want) are the Prismatic Spells, Mind Blank, Mage's Private Sanctum, and Anticipate Teleport. If you can point out more I'd love to hear them but honestly, most of it looks either replicable somewhere else or the province of Clerics.

And yes, Enchantment does save-or-lose which a bunch of other schools do but Enchantment puts a little extra punch behind it. Enchantment is pretty much the only school where you can walk out of a fight wiht more resources than you walked in with. It's like win+, you not only defeat the encounter but get a charmed/dominated/suggested slave for awhile. I don't think Enchantment is the best school, or even in the top half, but it's certainly stronger than the dregs of Wizard-only Abjurations.


I don't like Focused Specialist. It's a trap. You lose too much in terms of versatility and good spells.
I'm on the other side of the fence on this one. I like being able to throw out a top level spell on every encounter and while low level spells like Grease are great, I'd almost always prefer to cast Black Tentacles. At higher levels it stops being so important but I very rarely play high level games and it's a bit academic at that point.

Eldariel
2008-05-19, 08:22 PM
Edit: as for banning Necromancy--no, just no. Ray of Enfeeblement (or Escalating Enfeeblement if you took Ray of Clumsiness as well), Ray of Exhaustion... Enervation... Avasculate, which is "half life, no save, plus save vs. Stun for one round"... Veil of Undeath, AKA Immunity to Everything Technique... Command Undead scrolls for mindless undead...

Necromancy has a bunch of bombs, yea, but most of them are simple offensive spells and really, Wizard's arsenal in that regard is large enough with just Conjuration, Transmutation and Illusion (along with the few Abjuration and Divination offensive spells). Sure, you'll lose something tangible, but for that, you get low level resilience (with those extra slots, you'll last an encounter or two beyond a normal Wizard) and extra highest level slots (which is awesome especially with 9th level spells, but overall with the rising power curve).

Frosty
2008-05-19, 08:48 PM
People really are underrating Enchantments too much. I've rarely felt useless as a Beguiler. Sure Beguilers aren't Incantators, but they're strong enough to be considered overpowered by some people (not that I agree).

Jerthanis
2008-05-20, 04:21 AM
I would never specialize anyway, but this is a really good point. Just remember to tell your cleric buddy that Abjuration is pretty much completely up to him.

Another advantage is that those Protection from Energy spells sit in your spellbook like dead weight, costing you hundreds of gold in scribing costs for the times you don't need them. The cleric is a "Hey, could you prepare an extra X" and a night's sleep away from filling that at any time with no cost.

I must say that contrasting Abjuration versus Enchantment is a little bit of a false dilemma to me... I thought Enchantment was considered one of the stronger schools? Oh well, I don't really track this kind of thing, as I said, I'm really a lot more of a player of Generalist wizards.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-20, 04:58 AM
I must say that contrasting Abjuration versus Enchantment is a little bit of a false dilemma to me... I thought Enchantment was considered one of the stronger schools?

At low levels, sure. At moderate to high levels, you are liable to run into a lot of creatures that are simply immune to mind-affecting spells. That includes player characters, courtesy of Mind Blank.