Bokuto

[The Necroswanso]

A Bokuto, or for those of you unfamiliar with how to speak Japanese properly, a Bokken, is a Japanese wooden sword styled like a Katana, mainly used for practice. The terminology Bokken, is technically incorrect. While "Bo", meaning wood, and "Ken", meaning sword, is improper terminology structure. As "Ken" is actually a prefix, and not a suffix, as in Kensei, and Kendo. So usage of the term Bokken, may even be considered slightly rude, if not only improper.
However throughout history many of those who call themselves, 'Samurai', or 'Bushi', have carried these as weapons. Though many failed, a young Samurai by the name of Shinmen Takezo, later to be known as Miyamoto Musashi, faught over 60 battles with such a weapon, and won them all.
His mastery of the weapon and his fighting style, later to be known as the Go Rin No Sho, made him a legend even as he walked the world.


Bokuto: Exotic, One-and-a-Half handed.
Damage: 1d10, Bludgeoning*
Weight 4.5lbs. Cost: 20 gp
Non-Masterwork Hardness made from any wood: 15, HP:7

*A Samurai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79512) who has taken the Tiger Claw Discipline gains extra options.



The Bokuto is a powerful weapon when heald inthe right hands, while in the wrong hands, is nothing more than a club. A wielder who is profficent with Martial Weapons may treat this weapon as a Two Handed Martial Weapon, but may only deal subdual damage with it.
Due to the different weights and natures of the weapons usage, a Bokuto does not share the same profficieny as the Katana, (Masterwork Bastard Sword), as most who use the weapon in such a way, will find it breaking often*, however a Masterwork Bokuto, will only break when sundered. As such, a seperate Exotic Weapons Profficiency is required.

Any Samurai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79512) Profficient with this weapon, may choose to deal subdual damage without a penalty.

*When used with feats such as Power Attack, Rend, And Cleave, the non-masterwork weapon is dealt 1 damage each time the feat is applied and a successful hit is scored.
EX: Kojiro, a level 5 Samurai, has chosen to power attack for 3 points of his BAB, his hit is successful, he then chooses to cleave onto his next target, and is successful with the hit.
Kojiro's weapon is dealt 3 damage. 1 point for the first Power Attack, a 2nd point for his second attack, which he used Cleave, and a 3rd, because due to his first attack being a Power Attack, his second is treated as a Power Attack as well.


(The bonuses of this weapon will also apply to the OA Samurai, as well as the Complete Warrior who have taken the EWP for the weapon.)

[Guyr Adamantine]

A Bokuto, or for those of you unfamiliar with how to speak Japanese properly, a Bokken,

Wow, you sure know how to make people feel stupid, do you? :smallamused:

The damage should be lowered, as this weapon has an additional property. I propose 1d8.

EDIT: Mind you, I only disliked your tone. If you explained the why of the name, perhaps the comment would be less annoying.

[The Necroswanso]

I initially meant the comment on the title to be a little snarky. I posted this elewhere without such a comment, and all I got was half-wit anime fanboys telling me I'm an idiot and that it was Bokken. I then referenced them to the proper wiki article...And well, the results weren't pretty. Though my original intent was to reference the wiki article as per the name..... I think I shall go edit it in as per your suggestion.

I was initially going to have it a d8, but then instead added, where as a bastard sword can be used martially, the weapon I have created can as well, but only subdually. So that while maintaining abilities, in order to benefit you realy need to invest extra money and a feat.

[Guyr Adamantine]

Oh, I see! I understand your point, and prefer your new entry. (Intents and tone really fails to deliver on the web.:smallwink:)

While I agree to the stats you posted, I just try to bring it back back to the weapon creation guidelines. (This exotic weapon would be worthy to spend a feat on, but it is still beyond what narrow-minded DMs will accept.)

BTW: Are you a fellow Kendoka?You seem knowledgeable (and passionate) on the subject and to have some common sense, so I wondered if you had learned to bear the blade like me.

[The Necroswanso]

To an extent. I haven't sparred or trained in almost two years now.
Recently I've been spending most of my time reading on philosophy and trying to find a copy of Musashi's "Go Rin No Sho".
Have fallen relatively out of shape since high school if you know what I mean.

[Ozymandias]

If you're going to be strict about it, use the proper anglicization: bokutō or bokutou, both of which are distinct from 'bokuto'. Also, Musashi didn't use bokutō exclusively - his primary weapons were always his daishō; he was rumored to have fought on occasion with a wooden sword (e.g. the duel with Kojirō Sasaki), but he principally used itō and nitō styles.

I think that, realistically, it shouldn't do as much damage as a proper analogue (e.g. a katana), but for the sake of beating people up with a wooden sword (like what's-his-name from The Last Blade) it's definitely worth it. It seems pretty weak, at present; I'd make it cheaper and give it a disarm bonus or something.

[The Necroswanso]

The reference to Musashi was more D&D sword and sorcery focused, rather than actual historical accuracy. (I'm fully aware of what Musashi used, and am very more so aware why he had a small dislike for bathing.) Wink. Afterall, it's D&D, if you're not going to homebrew a crazy weapon with ridiculous backgrounds, why bother homebrewing a weapon at all?:smallbiggrin: Going for more theatrics for implementation than accuracy at certain points.


Also, as for the typing of the name: I don't know how to put those little lines and dots over letters. And for the long 'o' sound, I always forget about the 'u' following when translated.

As for power: I had been contemplating a way to transfer some, if not all damage into force, but had no idea how to impliment it without making it too strong. Once again, that's more theatrics.
I also though about upping the damage for profficient users, however, a 1d12 one handed weapon is a little too strong.
I was going to set up abilities based on iaijutsu, kenjutsu, or Perform (Kata), but had little idea of how to impliment it as well. Any suggestions are welcome.

[Caros]

*Sigh* These forums really do hate me.

I'd just worked up this lovely diatribe ranting over the matter, and then it eats my post. Teach me to save it before hand I suppose.

The gist? First off, don't be elitist, or purist. Japanese Kendo-Ka say bokuto. This is a fact! That said, the worst reaction I ever recieved to saying Bokken to anyone from Japan was a quizical look from one man, and a laugh from a girl.

You are quite right in saying that Bokken is not a proper word. That said, I've yet to meet a Kendo-ka who did not understand me, or who was offended, as regardless of prefix or suffix, it still litterally means 'wood sword.'

However, before you pat yourself on the back, consider. Telephone is the correct term for a phone. Automobile refers to a car. The english would call the trunk of my car a boot.

And Non-Japanese Kendo-ka refer to it as a bokken. My 7th dan Sensei, Ken Miyaoka, refers to it as a Bokken. Every European, Australian, American and Canadian Kendo-ka I have ever spoken to refers to it as a bokken.

Tomato, Tah-Mah-Toe. For more info I suggest the Kendo World forums. (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15474)

As far as your stats? I like that it would be a martial discipline weapon. The damage is off an needs to be lower than a Katana (Otherwise why use that.) If I were to put a guess? I'd say 1d8, masterwork. Maybe remove the break check since I've never seen one snap, though I suppose it might make sense.

My two cents anyways.

((Ps. Bokken isn't the only word that uses Ken as a suffix. Satsujin-Ken and Katsujin-Ken are both important parts of Yagyu Ryu, a VERY Japanese school.))

[The Necroswanso]

^ Good for you. We aren't here to discuss political correctness or what your experiences are. This is Homebrew.


Anyway, there are already two martial one handed bludgeoning d8 weapons that both weigh in at about five pounds. Why make a third?
If I made it martial, 1d8, and kept it two handed, it would never be picked as a Falcion would still be picked over it (higher damage output and a higher critical), and a greatclub is 1d10.
The weapon wouldn't alwasy be picked over a bastard sword because a bastard sword can be used as a martial weapon at no cost, and as a slashing weapon. When used as an exotic weapon, it really only deals a seperate type of damage, as there are no one handed exotic weapons that deal bludgeoning damage on the core list.

[Caros]

A Bokuto, or for those of you unfamiliar with how to speak Japanese properly, a Bokken, is a Japanese wooden sword styled like a Katana, mainly used for practice. The terminology Bokken, is technically incorrect. While "Bo", meaning wood, and "Ken", meaning sword, is improper terminology structure. As "Ken" is actually a prefix, and not a suffix, as in Kensei, and Kendo. So usage of the term Bokken, may even be considered slightly rude, if not only improper.


If you were just clarifying the name, you could have done so in a way that didn't come off as condecending to people who use the... lets call it the westernized name. ^_^

That said, you're using a STICK. A stick designed for practice matches. Admittedly the stick is more combat applicable than, say a practice foil from fencing.

Lets compare D&D weapons for a moment. You've got the club, which is followed up by its logical successor, the mace. 1d6 vs 1d8. Why is your nicely curved stick capable of dealing more damage than a nice thick tree branch, or a carefully crafted bludgeoning weapon?

Why is it capable of dealing more damage than a longsword, arguably one of the best western blades ever made?

Come to think of it, I'd actually edit my previous answer. Masterwork club. 1d6 damage. Martial weapon proficiency, and if you have Exotic Weapon Prof Katana, that applies as well and you can weild it one handed.

Why would anyone use it? Good question, why would you use a stick against an heavily armed and armored man. I'd go with the Musashi reason here, you either want to make them underestimate you, you want them to humiliate them, or you want to look awesome.

Edit: I get what you're trying to do. You want to have it be viable, from a power point of view, to have someone use a bokken as a primary weapon.

That said, most of the 'killing power' that you'd have with a bokken should come from skill, not because it is for some reason just as good as the metal sword =/

[Innis Cabal]

actually, it wouldnt be rude to call it a Bokken, they would just laugh and call you a silly gaijin, more to the point, you trying to point out the incorrect usage and doing so in the manner you have, would also probably result in the exact same reaction.

also, 1d10 is a bit to high, 1d6 would be alot more appropriate

[The Necroswanso]

That said, most of the 'killing power' that you'd have with a bokken should come from skill, not because it is for some reason just as good as the metal sword =/

And that is where the problem comes in. If I lower the damage it's useless. If I make it class/feat specific it becomes useless.
It's not supposed to be realistic, (Anyone who argues realism in D&D needs to be checked for autism). It was designed mostly for flavor. A character with no armor who gets up ifnront of the barbarian or heavily armored fighter with it is at first going to be laughed at. However when they show their prowess with such a weapon the fool becomes the one on the ground with the broken shoulder.
If you have suggestions for making it a worthwhile weapon, without making it class specific, or feat chain specific, (which makes it useless), then I'd be more then willing to take advice on it. (simply saying, "too powerful in unconstructive and a waste of a post) But the problem of arguing "it's just a stick" becomes redundent and moot as per the rules of crafting you can simply grab a random branch and call it a quarterstaff; dealing full damage on what technically should be an improvised weapon.

[Jayngfet]

I can picture it now, a fighter gets attacked by two demons lead by a blackguard, being cocky, they throw him a nonmagical sword, he lookks at his bokuto, smiles and charges.

[bahamut920]

No, the part that makes me smile is the thought of a +5 flaming frost corrosive shocking desiccating bokuto being made for some samurai who wants to use it as a primary weapon.

And while I agree that Dungeons & Dragons is not, and has never been, particularly realistic, consider that the katana is a masterwork bastard sword for a reason: to avoid clutter. Also consider that D&D follows realistic conventions, even if the system does not religiously adhere to reality; a quarterstaff does not do as much damage as a greatsword, even though the quarterstaff is longer and probably possesses about as much mass as the greatsword. A sword made of wood will not deal as much damage as its metal counterpart. If you absolutely must create a new weapon for your bokuto, I'd say create some sort of "mid-club" in between a club and greatclub. Roughly 1d8 (or maybe 2d4 on the outside) damage, 19-20 threat range (with a x2 crit multiplier), two-handed (one with EWP: Bastard Sword feat), and (maybe, if you absolutely MUST have a "cool" weapon from this) the ability to be finessed despite size. Remember: the bokuto isn't (and shouldn't) be an "optimal" weapon choice; it was only used in real battle as a last resort, or if the wielder was extremely skilled and/or confident in his abilities. You said yourself:

The Bokuto is a powerful weapon when heald inthe right hands, while in the wrong hands, is nothing more than a club.

Nobody in their right minds would use a wooden sword when they had access to a metal one, unless they had a damn good reason. However, I can see it being a weapon of choice in an "enlightened" city where metal or bladed weapons are banned...

[Caros]

Yeah, bahamut hit it pretty much on the nose there.

While D&D isn't all that realistic, weapons still deal damage that makes sense. And I agree with pretty much all his assessments.

1d6, Masterwork, Weapon finessable and uses the same feat as EWP. Maybe 19-20 for that extra little umpf.

[The Necroswanso]

Yes, Bahamut does make good points.

[bahamut920]

Maybe you could also allow it to function as a bastard sword for the purposes of feats like Weapon Focus/Specialization which require you to specialize in a specific weapon. The bokuto may not perform exactly like a katana in combat, but it was used as a means to teach people how to use a katana, so they must be at least relatively similar in use. At least that's what logic tells me, since I'm not a weapons or combat expert...

[The Necroswanso]

The thing is, is it's not supposed to be a logical weapon. it's not some, accurate by D&D standards Homebrew. It's a flavor weapon.
Think about it, I could have just as easily called it, "Blunt Bastard Sword".

[Caros]

I do get what you're saying, though I would argue that a 'blunt' bastard sword wouldn't be all that much more effective.

I also do get that you're want it to be 'cool' and effective. I briefly played a war orphan who used a bokken as his primary weapon till he came to terms with the idea that he might need to kill to save himself or others.

To strike a balance, I'd say 'As Katana' with a lower damage dice (d6) with the ability to weapon finess and deal subdual without the usual -4 penalty. Bunch of good abilities, as a trade off for doing less damage (Though just as a happy side note, the average damage is only 2 lower at 3.5, though the high damage is 4 lower.)

Dropping one of the 'special' abilities might move it up to a d8 I suppose. Tis your game after all. ^_^

[The Necroswanso]

The problem faced is by dropping the damage, it becomes too much like any other weapon of it's damage category, and in most cases I can think of, would not be picked. 1d6 one handed bludgeoning weapon? Por qua? High crit range? High crit multiplyer? 2d4 19-20, Falcion is definitely picked over it.

A warhammer is 1d8, one handed, bludgeoning x3 crit. If we went ahead and made the Bokuto the same, you face a couple of issues.
1: What if you're a heavy damage dealer? You'll most likely have power attack, but what if you were unable to invest the extra 300? It becomes an unviable option. Warhammer wins.
2: Okay, let's change it to a 19-20. Now it's a flail with higher crit range.

It just gets more confusing from there.
Really the point of the weapon is much like the Kopesh. It's a longsword that trips, and now it's exotic.
As such, the Bokuto is a wooden, finely crafted wooden, bastard sword, that instead deals bludgeoning damage.
Though in retrospect, shared profficiency and focus would make sense.

[Eksar Lindisfar]

A Bokuto, or for those of you unfamiliar with how to speak Japanese properly, a Bokken, is a Japanese wooden sword styled like a Katana, mainly used for practice. The terminology Bokken, is technically incorrect. While "Bo", meaning wood, and "Ken", meaning sword, is improper terminology structure. As "Ken" is actually a prefix, and not a suffix, as in Kensei, and Kendo. So usage of the term Bokken, may even be considered slightly rude, if not only improper.

I, on the other hand, thank you for that, I practice in the Niten Ichi Ryu school and I thought that Bokken was the proper term... as they say, ignorance is free xD

now I know that is called Bokuto

once again, thanks a lot

[MammonAzrael]

First, thanks for linking my Samurai, I'm glad you like it.

Onto the item, I like it but agree that it needs to be downgraded. Yes that means that other weapons will be picked over it and will be stronger than it mechanically, and they should be. This should NEVER be picked by someone looking to optimize killing power. Ever. It should be a last resort, subdual, or practice weapon only. The only people who should even consider using this over an actual katana are those who are those looking at it for flavor purposes.

I'd say 2d4, crit 20/x2, Subdual damage with the option of dealing normal damage as 1d6.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I must say I agree with the 1d6/19-20 crowd here. It's a slightly better club.

I know the argument that it's for someone who wants a bit of flavor, but so is the dagger. Rather than wield a greatsword, I want a fighter so confident in his skill that he fights heavily armored knights with a dagger.

Do I deal 1d10 damage to compensate for this choice? Nope. There's no reason this should either. Make it an exotic weapon that uses the same proficiency feat as the Katana. There we go. Sacrifice some damage for flavor like everyone else who uses an unoptimal weapon. My nightstick-wielding guardsman is proud of you now. And in the same boat.

[Pie Guy]

practice foil from fencing.=/

As a fencer, I take of-fence to that:smallbiggrin:

Anyway, There is a tiny bit of realism to DnD weaponry.

I'm firmly in the 1d6 crowd.

Side note: Although it will enrage the people who like japonese feudal culture, all I could think about when you mentioned Musashi, was the Brave Fencer Musashi series for Playstation

Please don't hurt me.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

As a fencer, I take of-fence to that:smallbiggrin:

Another fencer! Always good to know there are more of us around. :smallbiggrin:


Side note: Although it will enrage the people who like japonese feudal culture, all I could think about when you mentioned Musashi, was the Brave Fencer Musashi series for Playstation

Please don't hurt me.

So it wasn't just me? Ah...great game. Great game. *wanders off to boot up Playstation*

[Various]

I must say I agree with the 1d6/19-20 crowd here. It's a slightly better club.

I wouldn't even say that. These things are designed for training, clubs are made for fighting. You can hit a shield with a club and the club won't break, but I wouldn't try the same thing with a bokuto. You could reinforce it I guess, but there comes a point when using wood is impractical. If I was going to use a cheaply made weapon and only had some basic materials and a few trees around, I'd make the weapon thick so it wouldn't break so easily. If you want something thinner to be wielded like a sword but you couldn't or didn't have the skill or materials to make a sword, I'd just make a long metal bar like that Chinese weapon.

In short, there is a reason why people didn't use wooden swords for combat.

[The Necroswanso]

I'm guessing the point a good number of you are missing is that the flavor isn't, "You're using a practice sword". The general idea is that it's been modified and crafted to function as an actual weapon worthy of being picked among higher weapons. Not just your simple sanded and polished piece of oak.
I understand that a practice sword in D&D would technically deal little to no damage. But the point of this weapon is thatit has evolved beyond a practice stick.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I DO understand that. But look at this. Here are all the weapons made from wood in the PHB.

Club: 1d6
Quarterstaff: 1d6
Sap: 1d6
Shield Bash (Heavy Woor): 1d6
Nunchaku: 1d6

See a pattern here? All are more than practice weapons...they are wooden weapons made for WAR. This weapon you're talking about has less force than a swung Nunchaki (as it is shorter than an extended Nunchaku and lacks the connecting chain, which grants significant force through leverage and momentum), and weighs less than a shield or a quarterstaff.

You also can't GET a more combat ready wooden weapon that polished oak without sticking metal on it. White oak is one of the most resistant woods you can get...hence why it's used for Bokuto. It's tough as ****. Ever try to break a Jo? Those things WILL NOT BREAK. White oak.

What more can you DO to wood? A sharpened edge, about the only thing that could make it more efficient, would snap, even if made of oak. A duller, yet still somewhat sharp edge serves to do what my sample did...increase the critical range. 19-20/x2 instead of 20/x2. The weapon is still limited by it's construction. If I hit you with a metal mace or this wooden sword, the mace is going to hurt more. Simple fact of density and mass right there.

What were you intending to do to thins thing to bring it up to the point where it's competitive against a bastard sword? I'm rather curious.

Also, I realize this post might seem confrontational. It's not meant to be. What you do in your campaign is your business. However, you asked for critique, so I'm being as accurate and realistic as I can possibly be.

-The Djinn

[The Necroswanso]

I DO understand that. But look at this. Here are all the weapons made from wood in the PHB.

Club: 1d6
Quarterstaff: 1d6
Sap: 1d6
Shield Bash (Heavy Woor): 1d6
Nunchaku: 1d6

See a pattern here? All are more than practice weapons...they are wooden weapons made for WAR. This weapon you're talking about has less force than a swung Nunchaki (as it is shorter than an extended Nunchaku and lacks the connecting chain, which grants significant force through leverage and momentum), and weighs less than a shield or a quarterstaff.

You also can't GET a more combat ready wooden weapon that polished oak without sticking metal on it. White oak is one of the most resistant woods you can get...hence why it's used for Bokuto. It's tough as ****. Ever try to break a Jo? Those things WILL NOT BREAK. White oak.

What more can you DO to wood? A sharpened edge, about the only thing that could make it more efficient, would snap, even if made of oak. A duller, yet still somewhat sharp edge serves to do what my sample did...increase the critical range. 19-20/x2 instead of 20/x2. The weapon is still limited by it's construction. If I hit you with a metal mace or this wooden sword, the mace is going to hurt more. Simple fact of density and mass right there.

What were you intending to do to thins thing to bring it up to the point where it's competitive against a bastard sword? I'm rather curious.

Also, I realize this post might seem confrontational. It's not meant to be. What you do in your campaign is your business. However, you asked for critique, so I'm being as accurate and realistic as I can possibly be.

-The Djinn


Fair argument. Rebuttle not found.

I had not actually realised before that all the wood wepaons were 1d6.
And unfortunately, I have tried to break a Jo. It responded by breaking my middle finger.

[Caros]

Heh, I knew I should have quoted the 'all wood weapons deal low damage' thing.

That actually makes sense when you think about it, after all, wooden weapons like the bokken are really hard to kill with.

Hit the head, you'll crack the skull. Hit a bone? Probably break it with enough force. Hit the abdomen... you'll hurt them.

Whereas anything with a blade will do the same and more, removing limbs, cutting open the abdomen, etc.

Anyways, I do think the above that bahamut and I mentioned is best. Its a club, with a better threat range, the ability to use subdual for free and shared proficencies. Hell, for a charachter that uses this, you could say he carrys around a real sword, but never uses it against anything that doesn't impress him. After all, he can use both =)

Best balance of flavor against crunch I can come up with anyways =/

[Triaxx]

Congratulations. I didn't think it could be done, but you've succeeded in creating a sword Undead will fear.