OOTS 4th Edition (No, for real this time!)

[SPoD]

For those who haven't seen yet, Rich has finally posted his thoughts on OOTS and Fourth Edition on the news page.

The short version? OOTs will not convert, but he will still make jokes about 4th Edition when he feels like it. As widely predicted, he cites his drift away from strict rules parody and 4E's elimination of several key classes as reasons for OOTS to not convert.

[RMS Oceanic]

I guess that settles that, then.

[Sengoku]

I'm happy the Giant made an official clarification, as the threads about it started to annoy even me.

I'm also happy he decided to follow this course of action:smallsmile:

[Yendor]

Thank Banjo that's dealt with.

I'm not in the least surprised by the decision or the reasoning.

[MeTheGameGuy]

Phew. Does this mean no more 4th Edition threads? Sadly, probably not. People can and will debate how much 4th Edition Rich puts into the comic. And, of course, some people won't even see that news, and will still ask about the conversion.:smallmad: It's good to know Rich certainly won't convert. I officially hate 4th Edition. I'm not exactly sure why, but I hate 4th Edition.

[SPoD]

And, of course, some people won't even see that news, and will still ask about the conversion.:smallmad:

That's why I started this thread. Not everyone reads the news posts, especially since they get updated only 2-3 times a month.

[Rad]

YAY! Go giant!
I had a feeling that this would have happened, but I'm still glad that the giant let us know!

[Mando Knight]

I kinda thought that Rich would implement some kinda homebrewed 3.75 Edition. I think one of his first references to the 4E rules is Durkon stating that Elan has Ignorance as a class power source.

The Class and Level Geekery thread will rely more and more on homebrewed powers and abilities noted in the comic, or the thread might very well shut down now...

I have a feeling that Roy might get his hands on the 4E PHB, boast to his dad that Fighters now get hordes of powers that make them at least as competent as wizards at high levels... then remembers that the comic isn't switching.:smallwink:

[ImperiousLeader]

That was the most logical course.

[Roderick_BR]

Good to know, specialy with the "power source" joke on today's strip.
But that was really predictable(sp?) OotS is based mostly on 3rd edition.
4E is completely new and even suggests finishing old games, and staring of new campaigns (like they did with AD&D and 3E back then), OotS will go along with 3.x for the longest time still.

Maybe, a big maybe, after this comic reachs it's ending, someone (maybe even Rich himself) would make a new comic based on 4E, and they will make jokes about the "previous generiation", like Rich does everynow and then (Haley: My father was a 1st edition Thief).

[YPU]

seems the logical course of action. get the best from both words, get more chaos and more jokes. whats not to love?

[Dallas-Dakota]

3.5e will always be in my heart.

[Greg]

...and there was much rejoicing.

[Laurentio]

You hear this? It's the sound of many forum writers eating Bart's shorts.

Laurentio

[Nikolai_II]

Phew. Does this mean no more 4th Edition threads? Sadly, probably not. People can and will debate how much 4th Edition Rich puts into the comic. And, of course, some people won't even see that news, and will still ask about the conversion.:smallmad: It's good to know Rich certainly won't convert. I officially hate 4th Edition. I'm not exactly sure why, but I hate 4th Edition.

And, as some people already have mentioned - "Power Source" is a 4Ed thing. Martial, Arcane, Divine.. and now Ignorance :smalltongue:

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

I say thank you to Rich for clearing up the OoTS 4th edition thing. I am glad that he is not changing the story for the sake of some rules changes =D

Domo Arrigato Mr. Giant. :smile:

[Raider]

Well all those threads will hopefully end, this is for the best. It will allow him to continue the story how he wants and not have to worry about all the rule changes

[HolderofSecrets]

:cool: This means no screwy conversion comic and disappearing characters. Thank you, Giant, for taking the stance as a writer instead of following the path of gaming. Hopefully OotS will continue to run till you get ready to end it.

[Gamerlord]

Woot oots isn't changing to the vile 4e!

[Edea]

Can you imagine the look on V's face if told that wizards in 4E never ran below ~80% spell output (or at least had unlimited magic), but that the conversion wasn't going to happen? Or the look of relief on that same face, when presented with the 4E versions of Fly and Greater Invisibility (and what level you get them at)?

This was IMO a wise idea; 4E isn't really ready for jokes yet, regardless of its being good or bad, simply because it isn't old enough yet (though I already have a few words to say about facing young black dragons at level 4 o_O).

[Timberboar]

While I appreciate that the story must come first, I wonder what Rich is going to be playing around his own kitchen table.

[Timberboar]

(though I already have a few words to say about facing young black dragons at level 4 o_O).

This is different from 3.X... how?

[F.H. Zebedee]

About the dragon, from what I heard, only like 5% or so of parties actually beat/survived it. Most others got TPKed. So it's probably like a CR 6 or 7, right?

About the news, that is spectacular. I don't think there's really a better way of handling it, so for me, this is great to hear.

[Edea]

This is different from 3.X... how?

Well, a young [ADULT] black dragon was originally a CR 9 (young in 4E = young adult in 3E, apparently, but this one is Large while the young in MM is Medium :/), and even then this one has far more HP.

Seeing as the trend in character design has been to eliminate or reduce save-or-dies, and reduce damage/round, that seems a bit wonky for an encounter with a group of level 4 adventurers, solo or otherwise. Guess it's dependant on the healing surge mechanic or something.

[Timberboar]

@Edea: Ah, I get where you're coming from, but I'm not sure if you've accounted for the toned-down damage that young black (or any monster, really) is inflicting. Anyway, enough of the hijack. If you'd care to discuss it further, I'm sure we can find a thread over in the gaming forums. :smallsmile:

[NoDot]

I take it then that the New Edition (http://www.eternalspires.net/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage) being fleshed out over at the Gaming Dem (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewforum.php?f=1) is also not on the table...

[Sir_Dr_D]

Can you imagine the look on V's face if told that wizards in 4E never ran below ~80% spell output (or at least had unlimited magic), but that the conversion wasn't going to happen? Or the look of relief on that same face, when presented with the 4E versions of Fly and Greater Invisibility (and what level you get them at)?



V would likely hate 4th edition, being the metagamer type that he is. Elan though with his flare for dramatics would likely love it.

[Jayngfet]

I had something witty reserved for the occasion but I forgot it *thinks hard*.

[The Extinguisher]

I guess that settles that, then.

You'd think so, wouldn't you.
It makes me sad inside sometimes.

[oasisob1]

For those who haven't seen yet, Rich has finally posted his thoughts on OOTS and Fourth Edition on the news page.

The short version? OOTs will not convert, but he will still make jokes about 4th Edition when he feels like it. As widely predicted, he cites his drift away from strict rules parody and 4E's elimination of several key classes as reasons for OOTS to not convert.

How does the revision of the OGL affect Mr. Burlew's decision not to convert to 4E? As I understand it, producers have to either move forward, or stay back in the (glorious) past, no messing about with both.

I sense legal trouble!

[Timberboar]

How does the revision of the OGL affect Mr. Burlew's decision not to convert to 4E? As I understand it, producers have to either move forward, or stay back in the (glorious) past, no messing about with both.

I sense legal trouble!

Something tells me that neither the OGL or GSL applies, unless IP comes into play -- and the encounter with the Mind Flay--err... that one squid-headed monster tells me it won't be an issue.

[Zherog]

How does the revision of the OGL affect Mr. Burlew's decision not to convert to 4E? As I understand it, producers have to either move forward, or stay back in the (glorious) past, no messing about with both.

I sense legal trouble!

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV; also, I have not actually seen the new GSL and only have FAQs and such from WotC to go by

WotC has said in their "official" FAQ about the GSL that the rumor of company's having to choose one or the other is an incorrect interpretation. Instead, companies must decide on a product line by product line basis.

For a quick and easy example: Paizo can continue to produce Pathfinder with the 3.5 SRD and they could develop an entirely new product line and use the 4e GSL.

[factotum]

Something tells me that neither the OGL or GSL applies, unless IP comes into play -- and the encounter with the Mind Flay--err... that one squid-headed monster tells me it won't be an issue.

Er, the Mind Flayer *was* an issue, because it is copyrighted WOTC material. Rich even changed it in the print book so that Elan doesn't call it an illithid, presumably because the lawyers who work for the spooky wizard by the coast might have had problems with him using the actual name...

[Timberboar]

Er, the Mind Flayer *was* an issue, because it is copyrighted WOTC material. Rich even changed it in the print book so that Elan doesn't call it an illithid, presumably because the lawyers who work for the spooky wizard by the coast might have had problems with him using the actual name...

Err... yes. That's kinda my point. Once burned, twice shy and all that.

[Zherog]

Er, the Mind Flayer *was* an issue, because it is copyrighted WOTC material. Rich even changed it in the print book so that Elan doesn't call it an illithid, presumably because the lawyers who work for the spooky wizard by the coast might have had problems with him using the actual name...

Trademarked, not copyrighted. :)

[oasisob1]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV; also, I have not actually seen the new GSL and only have FAQs and such from WotC to go by

WotC has said in their "official" FAQ about the GSL that the rumor of company's having to choose one or the other is an incorrect interpretation. Instead, companies must decide on a product line by product line basis.

For a quick and easy example: Paizo can continue to produce Pathfinder with the 3.5 SRD and they could develop an entirely new product line and use the 4e GSL.

The WOTC 4E OGL FAQ says that a product may not be released under both the OGL and 4E GSL, which I interpret to mean that it disallows the mixing of different sets of rules in one product, and I think this is where Rich may put himself in a shark-infested pool of acid (see what I did there?).

Of course, OotS has been running under a mix of 1E to 3.5 rules since the beginning, so I guess he's crossed that bridge.

[Leeroy_Jenkins]

The Giant's discussion/criticism (via this comic) of the rules changes is protected by the First Amendment. (The use of trademarked material is another matter.)

[bahamut920]

I highly doubt that Mr. Burlew can get into any legal trouble over this. He's running a parody webcomic which doesn't even strictly rely on D&D rules anymore. That's different than a supplement to the Dungeons & Dragons game. Now, if he were to create and publish for profit an OotS campaign setting, he'd have to pick 3e or 4e, but that isn't what he's doing (at least, as far as I know).

[Moriato]

Not to mention that WotC is already pissing off enough people with 4th ed, they'd be stupid to piss off even more by alienating all the OotS fans.

[Nikolai_II]

The WOTC 4E OGL FAQ says that a product may not be released under both the OGL and 4E GSL, which I interpret to mean that it disallows the mixing of different sets of rules in one product, and I think this is where Rich may put himself in a shark-infested pool of acid (see what I did there?).

Of course, OotS has been running under a mix of 1E to 3.5 rules since the beginning, so I guess he's crossed that bridge.

Rich can easily ignore that since he never explains any rules at all. Sometimes characters will reference rules, but not well enough to be able to figure them out from it..