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Aleron
2008-05-21, 08:43 AM
Yes, I know that there are TONS of threads out there about building a "Monk" using UASoard Sage, Factoroum(sp?), ect...But what I'm looking for is building a monk out of base material. Now, I'll admit, what I consider "Base" or "Core" is a bit different from what other people consider. I look at base/core as PHB/DMG/MM + PHB2/Unearthed Arcana & the Complete books. What would you consider, as a lvl20 build using these books to be the most fitting "Monk" out there. The only rules for building on this is that you have FoB and it CAN'T be dependant consumable magic items with limited reliance, meaning "have to have to work", on "sloted" magic items. Looking at feats, skills, how you would play the character.

Guacmo, please, I've looked at you UMD reliant "build" of a monk....it's worthless. Totally, completely, useless. You'd be better of playing a rogue using IUA+Monk's Belt+SUS to simulate a monk than what you have since it relies so much on UMD.

Spiryt
2008-05-21, 09:01 AM
Look at the latest pages of Giacomo's thread. Quite a lot of optimised optimizers posted some Monk builds.

Aleron
2008-05-21, 09:06 AM
Ah...Just didn't feel like digging through the mess of his thread. I read the first page, including his "build" and didn't bother to read much further. Most of the replies I read were along the lines of "If you want to play a monk, just play UA Sword Sage, ect..." Figured most of the later pages would be more of the same, but with G-man trying to defend his horrible build.

Solo
2008-05-21, 09:09 AM
Have we gotten so predictable?

SoD
2008-05-21, 09:14 AM
Well, you could throw in 3 levels in cleric, which would synergise with the monks wisdom, and would not only give you healing spells, but also buffs such as owls wisdom, bulls strength, and cats grace. And if you want to be big and tough, enlarge person.

Aleron
2008-05-21, 09:25 AM
Well, I'm well aware of the Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist builds. It's a good build, works well, and you get, in all honesty, a fairly effective combatant if you focus on the buff aspect of a cleric(and if your an evil cleric makes it easy to deliver those Inflict & harm spells). Should have mentioned that in the first post I guess :smallredface:

And yes Solo, you are that predictable! :-P But that's not a bad thing, the UASS is a decent choice...I just don't like ToB as much as most on the board and the next game I run is using only the books listed, and maybe BoED/BoVD

Telonius
2008-05-21, 09:57 AM
Well, there are a couple of general principles that you need to establish first. First of all, you have to know what the build is trying to accomplish. What is this Monk supposed to be? There are several roles the Monk can reasonably expect to play. The Monks I've seen usually fall into a couple of different categories: Battlefield Controller, Scout/Assistant Skillmonkey, Blaster-Killer*, Melee Combatant. No single role is exclusive of all of the others, but most of the time you're going to have to sacrifice one or more of the roles to do what you want your Monk to do. (* - Note that I said blaster, not mage or caster. There's a subtle and very important difference).

Now, regarding multiclassing. If you have a Monk's Belt, the only reason you should stay in Monk past level 15 is for the abilities. There are some very good capstone abilities for the Monk, but the problem with them is that you have to wait through 19 levels to get them. I'd suggest that you start out the build of five levels of something other than Monk. Rogue1/Ranger1/Fighter3 is a possibility for someone focusing on melee combatant, Battlefield Controller, and Assistant Skillmonkey. Cloistered Cleric 3/Fighter 2 is good for Melee, Scout, and Battlefield Control. (Suggested Domains: Strength, Destruction, War, Travel). Paladin5 with Ascetic Knight works well for Melee, Battlefield Control, and Blaster-killer. But any of those choices shore up some specific deficiency in the Monk - lower attack bonus, no trapfinding, no casting ability - while maintaining the monkiness (monkeyness?) of the monk.

If you're really going for melee combatant, you'd probably be best to go Pal5/Monk11/Pal4. (EDIT: p5/m12/p3 if you want to pick up Abundant Step - not an unreasonable proposition at all). You'll meet your requirements - full FoB and base damage - plus have some smiting abilities, minor spellcasting, better HP, better attack bonus (extra attack at Lvl 20) and a mount. I believe there is a table in the DMG for alternate mount possibilities, and that some flying creatures (pegasus, hippogriff, etc) are on it. This solves the "can't fly" problem.

EDIT: If BoED is allowed, that does change things. At that point, the Intuitive Attack feat is a must for any Monk build.

Aleron
2008-05-21, 10:12 AM
Blah, it's early and I'm not totally with it, so forgive the bad information. Here is the thing. I'm going to be running a campaign where one of, if not the BBEG(haven't decided yet) is going to be a monk(decendant of another Monk from previous campaign, who went in to follow in his ancestors footsteps, but became currupted). What I want him to be is an incredibly anoying harasser for the group. Able to stand up to them in combat, at least 1 at a time, but more able to keep alive and cause them headaches through out the campaign once they meet him. I think BoED/BoVD can be considered to be in. Also he is Human and still just Adult in age. So, mild/moderate combat but emphesis on survivability and harasment of the PC's.

elliott20
2008-05-21, 10:50 AM
sounds to me a blackguard/monk or hexblade/monk build might be just what you need.

Xuincherguixe
2008-05-21, 11:01 AM
It's really too bad you're not using Psionics. Psychic Warrior goes great with Monk.

Psionic Lions Charge lets you full attack on a Charge. You get bonus move speed as a monk.
Expansion increases size. Extra size increases how much unarmed damage. And there's the bonus Strength too.

If you haven't used them before, this is probably a good time. Psionics and Monks don't clash too much. You can really play up the angle of "Strange Martial Artist".

elliott20
2008-05-21, 11:10 AM
he doesn't want a deadly combat machine that can deal out massive damage though. he wants his BBEG to be able to survive the PC onslaught rather than just insta-win.

lord_khaine
2008-05-21, 11:12 AM
yeah, you could make a really annoying monk if you gave him some levels in the psionic monk prestice class found on the SRD.

with the feat that lets him pick up powers from the psion list you could really surprise your players.

valadil
2008-05-21, 11:14 AM
Has anyone attempted an abjurant champion monk? I've seen monks with a dip in sorcerer for shield and true strike. With abby champ you'd get to cast better shields faster and get full bab along the way.

Aleron
2008-05-21, 11:19 AM
On Psionics...None of the group I've been in have ever used them, mainly because none of us, with one exception, like them at all. Yeah, sometimes it would be great to play a Psilock(X-Men) or a River Tam(Firefly) but nothing in the Psionics flavor really caters to anyone in our groups, so they have been houseruled to be non-existant.